The Forum > General Discussion > Is Removing Putin Possible?
Is Removing Putin Possible?
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Posted by Foxy, Monday, 26 September 2022 3:37:23 PM
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The more important question is "would it be desirable to remove Putin?"
The assumption, almost certainly mistaken, is that his replacement would be more amenable to western sensibilities. But there is no reason to think that is so. If he were 'removed', it wouldn't be done by the west or by a revolt by the Russian people, but instead by the military. Do we want the military running Russia? A further problem would be that his overthrow would be seen as the result of Western pressure. This would be a signal to dictators the world over to resist western pressure with all means at their disposal. I've previously noted that part of the problem with reasoning with North Korea's Kim over getting rid of his nukes is the example of what Obama/Clinton did to Ghaddafi after he got rid of his. Putin being overthrown as a result of western pressure would create more problems than it resolves. Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 27 September 2022 11:00:55 AM
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US President Biden has said that the defeat, sidelining,
or removal of Putin is the only outcome that offers any long-term stability in Ukraine and the rest of Europe. That's easier said than done. A popular uprising, a military coup, an assassination ? All seem unlikely in Russia because multiple experts have told us that Putin has done about as good a job preparing for them as any dictator could. We're told that over the past decades the Russian dictator and his supporters have structured nearly every core element of the Russian state with an eye toward limiting threats to him and the regime. We know that Putin's arrested or killed leading dissidents, instilled fear in the general public, and made the country's leadership class dependent on his goodwill for their continued prosperity, and safety. Putin's used tactics like mass arrests, shutting down opposition media, cutting off social media platforms - and much more - showing the strengths and power of his regime. He's taken a lot of concerted effort and actions to make sure that he's not vulnerable. The CIA tried many times to get rid of Fidel Castro. The guy lived to be in his 90s. We can only hope for some miracle - that this won't happen with Putin. Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 27 September 2022 2:05:14 PM
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"US President Biden has said that the defeat, sidelining,
or removal of Putin is the only outcome that offers any long-term stability in Ukraine and the rest of Europe." That was the plan all along Foxy, even before the invasion. The West planned this war, when they steered Ukraine towards joining EU and NATO. That's why they were killing citizens in Donetsk for 8 years (and still do) in order to get Putin to act on it. The West wanted to create a situation where they could use sanctions against Putin to cause an economic crisis, which would in turn then create protests in Russia which would lead to a political crisis and Putin's ousting. Instead Europe has committed economic suicide, and it will be the EU leaders who will all be gone before this is over. So Foxy, it's people like you who wanted Putin gone, people who think they have a right to decide who foreign governments leaders are, and who are responsible for this entire mess. The EU is totalitarian and rules over the countries in the union with coercion and economic threats. Likewise the west uses economic war to bully and threaten other nations. They do this with impunity and if leaders don't fall in line, they're ousted in well organised western overthrows. The EU and the UK have haddit. They're not going to get cheap energy back, so the loss of their industries and damage to their economies (i.e. WE ALL PAY) is the price of their foolishness. Ukraine has lost the right to rule over Russian citizens after spending 8 years murdering them. I support Russia. I want a multipolar world not a unipolar one. I don't think the US should dictate through threats and coersion to all the other nations, which it does. Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 12:21:23 AM
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Putin has been effectively in power since 1999.
Presently he is painting himself further into a corner. If he loses this war he is done, and probably will spend his retirement in jail. His partial call-up is becoming a complete screw-up. People being called up include pensioners, people with missing limbs and mostly people with no military experience whatsoever. It is also creating major unrest. Most of Russia's training resources have been sent to Ukraine and even if they could train these recruits, Russia is running out of tanks, IFVs and APVs. Russia's logistics are a mess and with winter coming, the existing forces in Ukraine are looking at freezing and starving. Posted by shadowminister, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 4:26:59 AM
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Another question is who is worse for this World Putin or Biden's crowd ?
Posted by Indyvidual, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 6:59:07 AM
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Here is another perspective on why Putin invaded Ukraine
and what he wants: http://bbc.com/news/world-europe-56720589 Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 10:28:27 AM
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AC,
Russia's pretext for invasion is complete bollocks there was no huge desire for the eastern states or Crimea to secede, and Russia is now happily killing more Russian speakers than were ever killed in the 8 years since the first Russian invasion. The DNR and LNR are now almost empty of men between 18 and 60 after Russia conscripted them all as cannon fodder. These fake referendums and mobilisation are because Putin is panicking. The Russian defensive lines are collapsing on just about every front as Russia runs out of manpower and equipment. At home, the mass mobilisation is causing panic and rage, and Putin has managed to wipe out 80% of the Russian natural gas market, oil prices have dropped below $80/b and Russia's economy is circling the drain. Europe has been stocking up on LNG from the US and has now almost completely filled its reserves and the price of LNG is now falling while winter will be tough and expensive, the EU's situation is not nearly as dire as Russia's. When the 300 000 to 1000 000 that are mobilised start to come home in body bags Putin will be as popular as a dose of the clap. Posted by shadowminister, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 12:32:39 PM
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The BBC has pointed out that "Mr Putin for more
than two decades has, within the Russian elite enjoyed a reputation for being a winner and managing to extricate himself out of the tightest spots." That changed after 24th February and the last six months suggest that Putin's decision to invade Ukraine was a major miscalculation. Unable to secure a rapid victory Russia got bogged down in a long, bloody offensive and has suffered a series of embarrassing and dire defeats and loss of lives. Putin doesn't seem to care. He is determined to re-instate the old Russian empire no matter what the cost. Russian leaders rarely admit their mistakes. Will he go nuclear? Time will tell. A series of embarrassing defeats when an authoritarian leader's aura of invincibility fades can cause problems for the leader. It hasn't ended well for past Russian leaders who fought wars and didn't win them. Putin however has prepared himself for all events and is well protected. We can only hope that his removal is possible. Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 1:06:55 PM
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Dear Critic,
«I want a multipolar world not a unipolar one.» Well I don't want any poles, neither one nor many. «I don't think the US should dictate through threats and coersion to all the other nations, which it does.» I don't like the USA - they have done the same to Hawaii as the Chinese did to Tibet and as Russia is now trying to do to Ukraine. Same bastards them all. But had Russia and China not been as totalitarian, had they also allowed the other countries around them to live peacefully, had they not posed such a threat, then Europe, Australia and many others would not have to cower under America's stinking nuclear umbrella and then the USA would shrink back to its natural geographical proportions. It is because of Putin and Xi that we have to. Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 1:18:37 PM
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Putin has granted Russian citizenship to Edward
Snowden after he moved there permanently having exposed US military secrets. People are wondering whether Snowden will now be sent to fight in the Ukraine? Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 29 September 2022 11:33:33 AM
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Dear Foxy,
No chance Snowden will be sent to Ukraine: 1) Snowden has no former military experience. 2) Putin cannot afford the humiliation should Snowden be captured and sent to America for trial. 3) Snowden is much more useful to Russia in cyber-war behind a computer's keyboard. Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 29 September 2022 12:50:05 PM
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Hi Yuyutsu,
You're probably right. But still, interesting times ahead. Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 29 September 2022 2:51:18 PM
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Hi Foxy,
Please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owlgQzqVklE AND PLEASE TRANSLATE THE ENGLISH LYRICS OF "SAVE UKRAINE INTERNATIONALE" TO RUSSIAN AND ASK RUSSIAN CHOIRS TO RECORD AND SING IT. ALSO KINDLY READ THE BLURB UNDER THE SONG AND TRY TO MAKE THE SONG VIRAL TO CONTRIBUTE TO INTERNATIONAL SOLIDARITY WITH RUSSIANS TO BRING DOWN THE PUTIN REGIME. MANY THANKS Posted by Peace Lover, Thursday, 29 September 2022 3:13:01 PM
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Hi Peace Lover,
You've asked me this in another discussion. And I shall once again tell you that you must have a large number of activists, journalists, and intellectuals, in your own community that you can contact. They will be able to help you. Of all the many languages that I have learned over the years - Russian was not one of them. I wish you success in your endeavours. Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 29 September 2022 3:57:23 PM
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Now back to the subject.
According to a UK Daily President Putin has survived another assassination attempt. His limousine was attacked. Multiple arrests have been made by his secret service. The tentacles of Putin are far reaching. The following link explains: http://cbs.news.com/news/vladimir-osechkin-putin-opponent-possible-assassination-attempt-france/ Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 29 September 2022 4:04:49 PM
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My apologies for the typo. Here's the link again:
http://cbsnews.com/news/vladimir-osechkin-putin-opponent-possible-assassination-attempt-france/ Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 29 September 2022 4:18:13 PM
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What is happening in Russia is now total fear.
Russians are fleeing the country at an enormous rate. There's more at the following link: http://bbc.com/news/world-europe-63000034 Posted by Foxy, Friday, 30 September 2022 10:58:23 AM
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A former KGB comrade of Vladimir Putin's could be the
next in line to take the Russian President's place in power the former head of British intelligence Sir Richard Dearlove, has predicted. Nikolai Patrushev, Secretary of Russia's Security Council and long term Putin ally is the person named. Rumours are circulating about Putin's health. Moscow has denied them. It will be interesting if Putin will be replaced due to ill health. Posted by Foxy, Friday, 30 September 2022 4:05:20 PM
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Putin will eventually go no matter what but Biden et al will beat him to it !
Posted by Indyvidual, Friday, 30 September 2022 5:03:23 PM
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Western leaders might ALL be gone first, Indyvidual,
Some have been calling it 'The Zelensky Curse' for months now. - Leaders who support Ukraine at the expense of their own citizens and end up losing office, there's quite a list already I think. I expect many, if not most of them will be gone. EU leaders as well as ruling political parties in the UK and US Truss, Biden, Von Der Leyen, Macron, Sholtz and those foolish German Greens, they'll all be gone. Europeans are going to start feeling the sobering reality of a cold winter real soon. Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 1 October 2022 5:31:40 AM
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Putin's announcement of a "partial mobilization" in
the Ukraine war has triggered mass protests throughout the country and launched an exodus of Russian citizens fearing the draft. Hundreds of thousands have fled and continue to flee across land borders into Georgia, Kazakhstan, and Mongolia where they are being welcomed. Even in the Ukraine Russian soldiers will be treated with respect if they flee from Putin. Traffic jams are stretching for many kilometres and its taking as long as 18 hours to reach border posts - but people are determined to leave. Predicting a victory for Putin is not very logical. Even a Russian dictator can't win if people are fleeing the country. More power to them. Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 1 October 2022 9:52:18 AM
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Putin miscalculated his invasion in the Ukraine.
And now his own people are sending him a message with their feet. Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 1 October 2022 9:54:05 AM
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For anyone interested in getting a good perspective
of the war in Ukraine and what Putin wants the following link explains: http://bbc.com/news/world-euope-56720589 It's worth a read. Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 1 October 2022 5:07:33 PM
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Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 1 October 2022 5:10:15 PM
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Mr Putin is safely entrenched.
To remove him from power from outside his country would take a war. This could be direct and violent, or the country could be 'surrounded' quietly, and 'starved' in to some kind of 'submission'. The latter is the non-violent approach being used at present. To remove him from inside the country, others in powerful positions there must be convinced that he is no longer viable. That he is leading them to disaster. The 'non-violent' approach helps to achieve this end too. So everything is on track. He would be unwise to resort to any action that would be dangerous to the world at large. Nuclear weaponary would affect everybody with its fallout material. So the world would rise up to protect itself. They would have no choice but to do this. And his survival would be doubtful. Posted by Ipso Fatso, Sunday, 2 October 2022 2:49:53 PM
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Hi IF,
We can only hope that Putin's internal problems will be his downfall. And these problems appear to be growing with Russians fleeing the country. Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 2 October 2022 5:07:20 PM
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Very few tyrants survive losing a major war, especially one they started themselves.
There seems to have been an unofficial social contract in place where the people would turn a blind eye to Putin's adventures and Putin would deliver continuous improvements in living standards without involving the population in his wars. This seemed to work well in Chechnia, and Georgia, but the war in Ukraine has impacted the living standards and freedoms in Russia badly, and now with the "partial" mobilisation (that is calling up everyone it can) the war in Ukraine has burst like a nightmare into the lives of all Russian citizens. Hundreds of 1000s of Russians are trying to flee the country and there is a huge backlash in minority communities, some of which have conscription notices for every male between 18 and 60. The consequences for an economy already battered by sanctions is that losing a huge chunk of productive workers is making a recession into a deep depression. When tens of 1000s of untrained conscripts start coming back in body bags Putin's goose will be well and truly cooked. Posted by shadowminister, Monday, 3 October 2022 5:23:55 AM
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Just waiting for the US to come out and talk up the EastMed gas pipeline after blowing up Nordstream 1 and 2.
- Then you will start to see what all this was really about. Oil and Gas pipelines and energy revenue, just as its always been about. Maybe they had to drive up the price of gas first, and then destroy all other options to make the projects they want to become viable. Don't forget, the US doesn't have real allies or partners - only it's own 'interests'. Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 3 October 2022 5:36:22 AM
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Those of us who don't buy into what Putin's selling
and are now seeing the dire consequences of this dictator's vile actions can only hope that the people of his country - the Russians will indeed take care of this tyrant who wants to restore the former evil empire no matter what the cost. Lets hope that he will fail badly. And it will be his own countrymen who will change the legacy he wants to leave. Shadowminister - well said. Posted by Foxy, Monday, 3 October 2022 8:40:26 AM
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Putin's not a hard-liner or a warhawk in the Kremlin, he's actually a moderate.
Remove Putin and you may end up with someone who is more of a hard-liner. (Better the devil you know Foxy) - Meanwhile 180k people were celebrating the new Russian territories in Red Square And FYI, The formerly Ukrainian regions had to firstly vote for independence from Ukraine (Under Article 1 of the UN charter, specifically provisions for the right to self determination) - Before they were allowed to formerly request admission into the Russian Federation. Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 3 October 2022 9:43:47 PM
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AC,
Putin is the fwit that announced the illegal invasion of Ukraine and will take the brunt of the blame when Russia is driven out of all of Ukraine including Crimea. While there are undoubtedly those more hawkish than Putin in his inner circle calling Putin a moderate is like calling Stalin a moderate because Beria was more vicious. The fraudulent elections held by Russia are not accepted by anyone else nor are the illegal annexations. The 180k people bussed to celebrate will be disappointed when the territories including Crimea fall entirely under Ukrainian control. Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 4 October 2022 7:12:38 AM
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shadowminister,
Once again - well said. Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 4 October 2022 8:54:30 AM
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A Russian walks into a doctor's office for an eye-check up
in New York City. The doctor asks him: "Can you see this?" CZWXNOSTAZKY The Russian replies: "Not only can I see it I can pronounce it. He's my cousin!" _________________________________________________________________ What is Putin's favourite streaming service? Neyt-flix! _________________________________________________________________ What is the oldest form of Russian humour? Tsarcasm. _________________________________________________________________ Why do Russians only write in lowercase letter? They hate Capatalism. _______________________________________________________________________ A russian walks into a bar in Moscow and says to the bar-tender - quick give me a shot of vodka before it starts. The bar tender gives the man vodka. The man asks for another - he gets it. Then another, and another. This goes on for some time, with the man repeating the request - "Before it starts." Finally, the bar tender asks the man - "how are you going to pay for all this vodka?" The man replies: "And now it starts!" Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 5 October 2022 12:46:30 PM
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Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 6 October 2022 10:50:32 AM
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Thanks mhaze,.
Great stuff. Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 6 October 2022 12:14:43 PM
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The Ukrainians just blew up a fuel tanker train as it was crossing the Kerch Bridge to Crimea. Happy birthday little Vlad.
Posted by Fester, Saturday, 8 October 2022 5:34:18 PM
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2036 his tenure will surpass that of Russian dictator
Joseph Stalin who ruled the Soviet Union for 29 years.
Is it at all possible to remove Putin?
If so, how?
Or is it not at all possible and why?