My family are now looking at schools for my
grandchildren. Once again, the discussion has
arisen - private versus public. Of course it is
their choice - but I was wondering what would your
choices be - if it was up to you?

There are so many myths and misinformation about both
systems. It would help to hear your views on the subject.

I don't think there is much choice today, unless the parents are lucky enough, or planned it so they are in the catchment of one of the few special high achievement government schools worthy of the name of school.

I got a fantastic last 4 years of my school education in a government high school in a minor country NSW town. It was good enough to allow me to get an industry scholarship for a B Sc. Those were the days of externally set & marked matriculation exams.

My eldest daughter had to attend Math C & Physics coaching every Saturday during year 12 at the Queensland University of Technology as the only teacher in a 1600 kid high school who could do the math, [let alone teach it], was a union rep & rarely at the school teaching anything. Although I could coach her, my methods were not politically correct to the incompetent bunch pretending to do the job.

My grand kids are all costing a bomb at private schools where the teaching is adequate, & the lefty ratbagery is somewhat less.

From what I see of Victoria from this distance, if they are there, it would be essential to avoid the government run schools, particularly in Melbourne & larger cities.

A friend, ex government school teacher, is running remedial math courses for kids doing TAFE trade courses. Kids out of year 12 today do not have the math to handle the math that 15 year olds out of year 10 had 20 years ago here in Qld. A Gold Coast university has asked hid to do some for them, as they do not have the time to do it for most of their students doing any serious subject.

Let's leave it to the kid's parents to make the decision. It's not up to granny, nor a bunch of unqualified, unknowns online.

I did make it clear, (or so I thought) that of course it
is the parents choice (and right) to select their children's
schools. I just wanted to hear the views of others on this
forum - for my own benefit - so that I could weigh things up
and look at things from a variety of perspectives. -
This subject is bound to come up for discussion within our family.
And I wanted to have a broader view. And, granny or not,
I am entitled to an opinion - aren't I - ttbn?
Just as you are talking to strangers on this forum - right?

Hi Hasbeen,

I think they've decided on private schools.
I suspect they've chosen a religious one.
From what I can gather - they feel that
public education is underfunded, has bigger class
sizes, and has a less flexible curriculum to name just
a few things they feel aren't up to par.

I'm concerned that the private education system has less
diversity - and I am worried about the bullying that
often happens in private schools.

The discussion is bound to come up, you think. Is it? I think granny will be miffed if it doesn't. Heaven forbid that your offspring and his or her spouse decide that it is none of granny's business. Of course you are entitled to an opinion, but when it comes to young parents and their kids, it is a good idea to keep your opinions to yourself. There is nothing worse than an interfering parent or parent inlaw.

But, hang on: you are all over the shop. In your response to Hasbeen you "think they've decided on private schools".

Whoops. No discussion after all. Granny got left out. Now she is "concerned that the private education system has less
diversity". So much more important than actual education! And the "bullying that often happens in private schools". (As opposed to those very genteel state schools). Give us a break!

Three cheers for your son/daughter and spouse! They don't think the way you do. Better still, they didn't consult the interfering granny.

ttbn,

Why the personal attacks on me?
Does it make you feel better?
More superior?

Not a very nice way to behave, and totally uncalled for.

Why make it personal? You do this every time
no matter what discussion I may bring up. And
then you complain if I call you a toxic little
person.

Why not just add something of substance to this
discussion and give us your views on private
education vs public education as asked in the
opening post?

You know nothing about my personal relationships with my
family members. And your assumptions are as always -
incorrect and driven by your thorough dislike of me.

And that's fine. However - if you have nothing to
contribute to this discussion apart from personal
attacks - may I politely suggest - you take
your slingshots elsewhere.

I can't be held responsible for the obvious misery that you
must have in your own life - to want to attack the private
lives of other people that as you admitted are strangers to you.
It needs to stop!

Foxy,
Well said.

Is Mise,

Thank you.

_______________________________________________________________________

As for private schools vs public schools - there are
important areas for future research that need looking at
as there are a
number of points on which public schools and private schools
appear to differ. Including the quality and dedication
of teaching staff. The variations in curriculum
and instruction. Plus the question of better discipline
and order that private schools have.

There's a lot to sift through and my family has not made
up their minds just yet. My husband and I are prepared
to help with the funding of their choice of schools.
We've set up trust funds for our grand-children towards
that end.

Dear Foxy,

If your family loves and respects your grandchildren, then they should not send them to any government-sponsored school, even if it is "private" by name.

He who pays the piper calls the tune!

Opt for teaching them yourself at home, then you could gather a group of children into an informal school, taught by a roster of like-minded parents and privately-paid tutors who will educate them with your own values, not the government's.

Hi Foxy,

As a grandparent its good you take an interest in the children's education, education is the key to success in life. I wont mention the "good old days of the past" when everything was peaches and cream in the education system, the forced learning, the corporal punishment, the perverts etc etc, no... enough said about those good old days, times have changed, and certainly for the better. I assume by private you may be referring to the Catholic system. With our two grandchildren in Brisbane, girl 16 (year 11), boy 15 (year 10), they have experienced both the private and government systems. From my observation there is little difference at the primary level, its in high schools where the differences tend to show up. All in all, kids can do well under both systems.

Foxy,

Get over yourself. This is all make believe. I object to what is said, and how it is said, by a poster, who seems unable to separate real life from the internet, who calls himself or herself 'Foxy'. There are no personalities online; no buddies; no enemies; no real people; no personalities. We are all just made up names on a screen.

Good Morning Yuyutsu.

Thank you for your advice.

I certainly am involved in my grand-children's lives
and have been since their birth. However the choice of
what high school they'll be going to will ultimately
be up to their parents. They won't be home-schooled
for a variety of reasons - one being - both parents
work.

Hi Paul,

My children started their education in private
Catholic schools. We later made a switch to an
excellent public school - due to the scandals
the private school became involved in. We did
not regret that decision. Our children were
high achievers -finished university and went
on to great careers.
We're very proud of them both.

So as you said - there's good things about
both systems. Ultimately the choice is up to the
parents. However they are asking for our input -
and I'd like to be able to get a few opinions
to try to see things from a variety of perspectives.
Also to try to keep up to date by hearing
other view points - hopefully is to be better informed.

ttbn,

I have been on this forum for decades.
I have seen many come and go. We have
shared quite a great deal with each other -
and we have turned to each other in times
of need. I look upon many on this forum
as friends. At least that's the way I
see things. To me they are people - human
being behind those computer screens and
I try not to forget that when posting.

That's the difference between us.

No. The difference is, you can't distinguish between real life and the internet. I can.

Hi Foxy,

Some of us on here are Megadelights, others are terrafrights!

ttbn,

The sad thing is that you don't seem to realise
that you are talking to real people and not
machines on the internet.

Foxy,

Studies have consistently shown that the education at private schools is significantly better than in public schools for the following reasons:

1 The parents are generally far more involved,
2 Private schools are freer to deal with disruptive or violent children,
3 Teachers generally prefer to work at private schools giving them a far better choice.

A recent study showed NAPLAN scores for children
who attended private schools were no different to
those in public schools, after accounting for
socioeconomic background.

These findings are in line with other research
both in Australia and internationally which show
that family background is related both to the
likelihood of attending a private school and to
academic achievement.

While there may appear to be differences in the
academic achievement of students in private
schools, these tend to disappear once socio economic
background is taken into account.

The concentration of higher-achieving students in
private schools could also magnify peer pressure
effects on student's decisions of future career
paths or attending uni.

Many disadvantaged families are a great deal more
constrained in their ability to choose and pay for
private schools.

However, I get the impression that the family environment
plays a huge part in a child's success. And probably
a child with the right support and encouragement and
interest from their family will do well in either private
or public education systems.

Thanks to everyone who've contributed something
of substance to this discussion. It is appreciated.
I've really got nothing more to add except to
wish you all continued happy posting.

Hi Foxy,

BTW, something that I should add, when it comes to education a lot has to do with the attitude of the child, be it private or public. Our pair in Brisbane at private Catholic schools, the girl has a thirst for knowledge and a good attitude, she does very well at school, the boy has a negative attitude and makes it hard for himself at times, 15 and thinks he knows it all.

When they came to Brisbane from Sydney, both were just finishing primary school, which they completed at state school, all good. Starting high school they were given the choice. The girl being the oldest and her first choice was the local State HS, where her friends were all going. After about 3 years she told her parents, my school "suks" I want to go to Catholic girls, and the transfer wasn't cheap, we all put in. She hasn't looked back since transferring. The boy started at Catholic boys HS from year 7, but his attitude is letting him down.

I gauge this by the evidence I see every day. Public school teachers aren't as committed to teaching as those in private schools. The young people I get to witness & speak with are definitely of a different mentality between private & public school. Those from private schools are more indoctrinated & those from public schools are more dumbed-down just like their teachers.
Those students who eventually succeed rather than 'make it' in life are generally those with the more caring parents which enabled them to develop a more sensible mentality !

Thanks to both of you. Paul and Individual.

Each child is different. We were always involved in the
lives of our children and our children are involved in their
children's lives. The importance of education was drummed
into me at a very young age. I took it seriously. Yet
my oldest brother was the so called "black sheep" in the
family who went his own way. Still he always managed to
land on his feet. Today he lives in Byron Bay - owns
his own property - and is quite happy. He's now retired.
He was a singer/musician - well known in his time.

So you never can tell who will succeed.

In the case of my grand-children - I have a feeling that
they will opt for the private school system. And we'll help
them with the fees. Anyway, thanks again for taking the time
to contribute to this discussion. With all the attacks on
the recently elected government and individuals
currently happening on this forum - anything positive is appreciated.

Foxy said- "A recent study showed NAPLAN scores for children
who attended private schools were no different to
those in public schools, after accounting for
socioeconomic background."

Answer- Ben Goldacre talks about the prevalence of studies with faulty methodology. I'd have to review the study. But it would seem that it would be difficult to separate the correlating variables of Private School and Wealth.

http://www.ted.com/talks/ben_goldacre_battling_bad_scienc

There were two lads, one grew up in the tough environment of public housing and went off to the local state school. The other kid born with a silver spoon in his mouth was educated at a posh private school. The houso kid with the state school education went on to become Prime Minister of this great country. The toffee-nosed kid got a job as Constable Clod writing parking tickets for 10 years until Daddy took him into the family business where he was paid handsomely to count paper clips and sack decent hardworking Australians!

Foxy,

When I was at Uni I became acquainted with the Bodger correction factor. This factor has magical properties that when multiplied by the number you calculated will give you the number you want.

The SES number that the education dept uses is a prime example of a bodger correction factor.

The reality is that private schools consistently produce better results, even when the private and state schools are physically close to each other.

That a certain PM grew up in public housing after his mother got knocked up by a married man while on an OE in Italy that we have heard repeat ad-nauseum would be impressive if the said individual had actually had a real job some time in his life other than a union flunkey.

Dear Paul,

It does seem to come down to the talents of people and
their own determinations. The following link, given
below is an interesting read. I especially think it
might be educational for shadowminister:

http://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/michael-savages-pm-greatness-echoed-in-anthony-albanese-16196

shadowminister,

Read the link given above. Your take on our PM appears
somewhat skewed.

My apologies for the typo.

Here's the link again:

http://www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/michael-savages-pm-greatness-echoed-in-anthony-albanese,16196

Foxy,

As I mentioned before, nothing concrete has emerged from Albozo's globe-trotting only intangible "goodwill". It has been nearly 2 months since the election and parliament have yet to sit. If I am wrong please correct me, but your silence is deafening. For someone that promised action, we are all waiting for him to start.

As for quoting the Labor sycophant Alan Austin from the IA, not only are his articles frequently and deliberately factually incorrect, but his credentials are nonexistent and the IA is essentially a Labor /greens cheer squad

shadowminister,

The Morrison government had three years to prove themselves
worthy of governing. Do the same courtesy for the current
government. Otherwise you'll come across simply as a half-wit
giving us a piece of his mind - which no intelligent person
could respect. You can't possibly want to come across as being
simply a hole on this forum. Surely?

Foxy,

Albozo and his stooges have 3 years to prove themselves, but they have had 2 months already and haven't started.

Perhaps you should wait until they have actually achieved something before you start singing their praises or else you will come off as a half-witted sycophant.

shadowminister,

I've just received an email from a Liberal Senator with whom
I keep in contact. He's just returned from a trip to Papua
New Guinea and reported how things had changed since he
visited the place last. He was welcomed with open arms -
when they heard he was from Australia - and they praised our
newly elected PM - and how much they respected what he was
trying to achieve in the region.

The reason I admire this particular senator and do keep in
touch - is because he thinks for himself and wants to work
for what's good for the country - not just the party.
He doesn't have the "football mentality" of winning by all
means.

We need more politicians who do care - on both sides of politics.
And as I've stated previously - our new PM seems to have made
a good start. I'm so sorry that you can't see it. But it's
your choice of course.

Foxy,

Most liberal politicians are not political lifers and often earn far more in the private sector. Their motivations are usually for the common good, they just have a different idea how to do it.

SM,

"often earn far more in the private sector"

That's true, after doing favours for their mates from the big end of town whilst in government Liberals get on the gravy train with paybacks from Big Business when they get booted or leave.

shadowminister,

I am pleased that you are capable after all
on seeing good on both sides of the political
spectrum. That is so important isn't it - if
we are all going to work together for the
common good?

Paul,

What bollocks. Why can you not stop lying? Kickbacks from industry are primarily a labor and greens speciality.

SM, in a word BARILARO, this political mug left parliament, then immediately stuck his snout in the public trough. Another example of corruption in the NSW Liberal government.

That's why 9 in 10 Australians believe the government
should establish a federal corruption watchdog -
Australia Talks National Survey has revealed.

Kudos- Shadow Minister

Paul,

I see that you found the caps lock button. But some information for retards is that corruption by definition is illegal and no one has yet offered up one iota of proof that Barilaro has done anything illegal, in fact, your post is defamatory. Perhaps you can try to show that Labor has never appointed one of its own to a senior position?

What meets the definition is the rampant illegal abuse of taxpayers' money by the crook Dan Andrews and his 40 thieves as detailed in the IBAC report. Dan "apologised" but is too bent to do the honourable thing and resign.

The same applies to the corrupt Palaszczuk government, the previous NSW Labor government etc.

Foxy,

You should know that 90% of statistics on OLO are made up.

shadowminister,

Then stop doing it.

shadowminister,

But you're not alone:

http://www.crikey.com.au/dossier-of-lies-and-falsehoods/

Another example of a "job for the boy". The bloke who left Australian battlers with a trillion dollars of debt, Josh Friedbrain, and was rightly shown the door by the voters of Kooyong at the recent election, has landed a top paying cushy job with the multinational Goldman Sachs Bank. We know the banks got away with murder under the Coalition government, does this largesse from Goldman Sachs towards this ex political slug have anything to do with his previous employment? Given his pathetic record in government one can only wonder!

SM, the Labor Party is as bad as the Coalition when it comes to jobs for the boys.

Pauliar,

That's the problem with the greens, they're filled with so many incompetent idiots that they think that every appointment after politics is due to party favours. SHY could get a job as a bank teller but nothing else.

SM,

If Josh Friedbrain had been the treasure of the local soccer club and been kicked out by the members for financial mismanagement, after putting the club into unsustainable debt and financial ruin, of which the club has nothing to show for it, and that's the extent of Friedbrain's financial experience. Should Friedbrain go for a job as bookkeeper at the local fruit shop, would they employ him? Me thinks not!

When the Federal ICAC gets up and running I expect there will be a conga line of ex and present Coalition MP's coming in the door for a grilling over what they've done in the past.

Pauliar,

You must be thinking of whine swan who blew the budget surplus and ramped up debt and unemployment. Josh steered the economy through the worst crisis this century leaving it with lower unemployment, a high growth rate and in better shape than most other countries.

The clam to fame of Australia's most incompetent Treasurer ever, Josh Friedbrain. Not only did dear old Josh manage to run up the greatest level of debt this country has ever seen by a country mile, he did it all in about one year. Friedbrain's astronomical debt was greater that the total debt accumulated by this dills 39 predecessors in more than a 100 years! Not by a little, but by a factor of 10! I wouldn't trust this bloke to hold the dosh for the local pubs, chook raffle!

shadowminister,

Many political commentators and economic experts
including former Treasurer Peter Costello disagree
with your take on Josh Frydenberg's stint
as treasurer.

We're told even by The Australian Financial Review that
Josh Frydenberg's budget deficit was nearly five times
Wayne Swan's. That Josh Frydenberg blew out the federal
debt by $591 billion. Lets not mention the worst post-war
recession or the waste of tens of billions in jobkeeper
rorts and losing hundreds of billions to corporate tax
evasion.

I realize that some Coalition supporters thought that
Frydenberg would be a better PM than Scott Morrison.
However Frydenberg's outcomes suggest otherwise.
His electorate agreed.

As for Goldman Sachs?
Probably a good match!

Foxy,

I thought better of you than posting the bollocks you have.

The only place these bollocks could have come from would be that intellectual pinhead and chronic fabricator Alan Austin from the IA.

The so-called recession of 2020 was entirely due to the covid lockdown and not economic mismanagement and the economy bounced right back immediately afterwards.

Even discounting the $90bn of Savings the coalition left labor in 2007 the debt that Whine Swan left was about $170bn. And with debt at less than $720 bn in June 2022 Alan is once again a bullsh1tter.

Finally, the 10s of $bns of rorts is entirely fabricated without a jot of evidence.

Next time be more careful who you quote or you will be considered as big an idiot and bullsh1tter as Alan.

That Alan Austin hasn't managed to progress from the grubby little blog the IA shows that he is where he deserves.

shadowminister,

You've got your "grubby sources," I have mine.
You believe yours. I believe mine. The facts
however speak for themselves. Josh Frydenberg
got kicked out from his electorate. He lost
his seat. And now matter how great you may think
he was - his electorate did not agree with you.

Perhaps he can impress them at Goldman Sachs?

Foxy,

I don't have any grubby sources. All mine have their facts checked I don't rely on habitual liars.

That JF is now in a $1m+ job is a better sign of competence than fickle voters voting in a show pony. What did Juliar get? Bupkiss.