We're told that the United Kingdom is throwing a once
in a lifetime celebration for Queen Elizabeth II's
Platinum Jubilee. The 96 year old is the first
British monarch in history to reach a Platinum Jubilee
which marks 70 years on the throne.

Queen Elizabeth ascended to the throne on February 6th 1952
following the death of her father King George VI.

Starting today (Thursday), the Platinum Jubilee will include
everything from the traditional Trooping the Colour birthday
parade to a star-studded concert (I believe to
be screened here on Sunday) to thousands of street parties
across the UK.

Just as Australians for a Republic can enjoy watching the
pomp and spectacle of Royal Weddings and Celebrations without
abandoning the idea of an Australian Head of State -
they need to remind themselves to also wish this gracious lady
well.

Here is Queen Elizabeth's official Platinum Jubilee
Portrait that's been released:

http://people.com/royals/queen-elizabeth-official-platinum-jubilee-portrait-released/

Beautiful!

I am also 96. I have not been as much of a drag on the public purse as the royal family. I have not subjected the public to silliness in the manner of Champagne Charlie. I have caused no scandal but have paid my taxes and expressed my opinions. I have never felt or expressed a desire to be a tampon as did Charlie. All my descendants are useful citizens earning their own way. I have never had to sit through as many boring ceremonies as the queen and other members of the royal family. Come to think of it, in some ways I am better off than she is. My time is my own.

Charlie called himself the 'defender of all faiths'. I prefer doubt and questioning to any faith. It's more conducive to learning.

May Australia and the UK become republics.

.

On February 6, 1952, after a long illness, King George VI of Great Britain and Northern Ireland died in his sleep at the royal estate at Sandringham. Princess Elizabeth, the older of the king’s two daughters and next in line to succeed him, was in Kenya with her husband at the time of her father’s death; she was crowned Queen Elizabeth II on June 2, 1953, at age 25.

I wish her gracious lady well. She has done a great job during the seventy years of her office, but I should now like her to graciously retire as Queen of Australia and allow us to proceed with the creation of an independent republic in a calm and orderly fashion and elect an Australian president as our head of state.

Naturally, she fully deserves a very handsome retirement allowance for everything she has done for us all these years and I am sure our parliament will do the right thing and express our deep and sincere gratitude in the most generous of terms befitting her majesty's exceptionally long reign.

.

.

Thank You both, David F and Banjo Paterson, for your
comments.

The Queen and the royal family has featured in the lives
of many Australians for decades. Her picture used to hang in
every classroom. However times have changed. Politics has
changed as we saw on Saturday night. And we will be watching
all of it unfold.

The man tasked with our seeing Australia's transition to a
republic is Matt Thistlethwaite who has been sworn in as
Assistant Minister for the Republic by the Queen's
Representative in Australia, the Governor General David Hurley.

Matt Thistlethwaite is also the Minister for Defence and
Veterans' Affairs. The PM has pledged Labor will prioritize
a referendum on an Indigenous Voice to Parliament and
Constitutional recognition for our First Nations people in
its first 3 years. The Head of State question will come
later.

A discussion on a republic will be the next natural step.
The next natural step around the timing of a republic will
probably take place when Her Majesty hands over the reign or
passes. As the new Minister says:

"Many in the UK would see this as the next step for Australia
on the path to maturity and independence. In my discussion
people in the UK see us as a powerhouse economy in the Asia
Pacific, diplomatically independent, with our own culture
and identity, and many of them are amazed we haven't done this
earlier."

I think that the relationship that the average Australian has
with the royal family won't change. The royals will still
visit Australia as they do other nations. They will regularly
be in our media and they will be welcome in Australia at
any stage.

The Queen as stated earlier is 96 years old and media reporting
in recent months has focused on her health.

I shall be watching the celebrations this week-end wishing
Her Majesty well. As a monarch she has done a remarkable job.
And is rightly loved by so many.

The queen is a lovely old lady. If she visited me I would serve her coffee and bagels with whatever spread she preferred.

Dear David F.,

The only thing better than a bagel is a bagel topped with
something tasty - cream cheese, or at the very least
butter. Cream cheese and lox. Delishably yum!

But what about the tax on a tax when you buy petrol?
Far more important than a republic.

Is Mise,

Start your own discussion on that topic
kindly don't try to divert mine.

You may also think about the fact that the new
government has only just been elected. Give
them time. They have a great deal of challenges
facing them. They can't do everything at once.
Miracles do happen - but not over night.

Personally, I have nothing but respect for HM the Queen. I was lucky to have been within touching distance of her, on one of her Royal Tours down under. Though she probably didn't see me, the Duke did, I was in plain clothes and armed, and he nodded his acknowledgement of my presence.

Later, I was tasked with another copper from the ABDC ( Oz.Bomb Data Centre) to search their private apartment at Government House. It consisted of just three modest rooms. Her bedroom, and across the short hallway, was the Dukes almost identical, and a very comfortable sitting room, complete with TV, Radio, and with a modest collection of the latest copies of the English newspapers for them to read, just a couple of short steps nearby.

We were instructed by Special Branch not to engage conversation with any of the Royals unless they themselves initiated it. I did speak briefly, in the grounds of Govt. House, with one of the Royals who was travelling with the Queen. The Duke of 'something or other'. A tremendously down to earth guy, and so easy to talk with, albeit it was only for five or six minutes.

One thing I did learn about our Queen, she's frugal, and hates wasting anything, whether it be food, electricity or whatever else. I learnt so much from my brief encounter with the Royals, humbleness, humility and patience. I hope it made me a better person as a result of it.

Foxy,
Not trying to divert your topic at all, but it was you who introduced the republic
, I’m merely pointing out that a reduction in the price of motor fuel is of much more immediate importance.
Forcing people to pay tax on a Government imposed tax is indefecible.

Dear O Sung Wu,

Thank You for sharing your experiences with the royals.
My husband met the Queen on one of her visits to
Melbourne. He was a coach of a basketball team at the
time. I don't remember the details - but I do remember his
saying how lovely she was and made people feel at ease.

Is Mise,

Glad to hear that you're not trying to divert.
Now lets get back to the topic.
How do you feel about the Queen and her Platinum
Jubilee?

Thousands of people have flocked to London as
celebrations kicked off for the Queen's Platinum
Jubilee marking 70 years of her reign. Huge crowds
lined the streets with the Queen appearing on the
balcony of Buckingham Palace with other working royals.

This is a celebratory event for the United Kingdom.
One that will be remembered in years to come with the
pomp and ceremony that the Brits do so well.

It would be amazing to be in London right now.
However we'll get a chance to watch it all on our TV
screens. I'm looking forward to it.

o sung wu,
The Duke of 'something or other' you conversed with didn't happen to be HM nephew starting with A ?
Great bloke, rather handsome, jovial, liked a drink etc.
Had some good laughs over the course of a whole evening.

I heartily agree with you IS MISE a Tax on a Tax, is scandalous in my opinion. A man who travels some distance in his own vehicle to his work, the costs of his fuel must cost him a brick!

He pays a Tax on his salary;
Two taxes on his fuel;
and a tax on just about everything else he needs.

Yet our politicians are granted a C'Wealth Car and driver, all tax free. How is that equitable?

Hi there FOXY...

The one thing I did notice about HM the Queen, she wore an enormous amount of make-up. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm in no way being derisive of her or her foundation choices. I'm sure one of her ladies in waiting applies her make-up for her. But close up she's wears a lot. I guess her age might well be a factor, and media exposure. Who knows? I still reckon she a magnificent lady, in every respect.

Foxy,
I’m a dyed in the wool Irish Republican Royalist.

Hi there INDIVIDUAL...

Mate, I just can't remember who he was, other than he was very English, impeccably, but casually dressed, but I can't recall who it was. He was a Royal of some persuasion otherwise he wouldn't even be permitted into the grounds of Govt. House. Nice bloke though, for the 6 or so minutes I spoke with him.

.

My previous post requires clarification. Wikipedia does it nicely :

« The Coronation of Elizabeth II took place on 2 June 1953 at Westminster Abbey in London. Elizabeth II acceded to the throne at the age of 25 upon the death of her father, George VI, on 6 February 1952, being proclaimed queen by her privy and executive councils shortly afterwards. The coronation was held more than one year later because of the tradition of allowing an appropriate length of time to pass after a monarch dies before holding such festivals. It also gave the planning committees adequate time to make preparations for the ceremony. During the service, Elizabeth took an oath, was anointed with holy oil, was invested with robes and regalia, and was crowned queen of the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Pakistan, and Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) »

She was 25 when she became Queen and 27 at the time of her coronation.

Wikipedia also provides the following details :

« Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor was born on 21 April 1926. Her father, the Duke of York (later King George VI), was the second son of King George V. Her mother, the Duchess of York, was the youngest daughter of Scottish aristocrat Claude Bowes-Lyon, 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne. She was delivered by Caesarean section at her maternal grandfather's London house: 17 Bruton Street, Mayfair. She was baptised by the Anglican Archbishop of York, Cosmo Gordon Lang, in the private chapel of Buckingham Palace on 29 May 1926, and named Elizabeth after her mother; Alexandra after her paternal great-grandmother, who had died six months earlier; and Mary after her paternal grandmother. Called "Lilibet" by her close family, based on what she called herself at first. She was cherished by her grandfather, George V, whom she affectionately called "Grandpa England".

Elizabeth's only sibling, Princess Margaret, was born in 1930. The two princesses were educated at home under the supervision of their mother and their governess, Marion Crawford. Lessons concentrated on history, language, literature, and music »

.

(Continued …)

.

.

(Continued …)

.

So far, Queen Elizabeth’s exceptionally long 70-year reign has been crowned with success. Hopefully, her end of reign will be too.

I should personally like to see our dear Queen Elizabeth do everything in her power to help us through a smooth transition from our current hereditary constitutional monarchy to a democratically elected republic.

I should like our next heads of state to be Australian-born-and-bred elected citizens, with reigns long enough to allow them to deploy their (i.e., our majority’s) long term vision for our country and, also, to continue to maintain our historically-excellent political stability – but, unlike the 70-year-long reign of our hereditary Queen Elizabeth, their period of office should, in my opinion, be limited to a maximum of two terms of 7 years (whether consecutive or not) in the event of re-election.

That, in my mind, would be the best scenario imaginable for a successful end-of-reign of our dear Queen Elizabeth – far better than simply dying at the helm of old age and leaving us all sadly orphaned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMnsdygMYM0&ab_channel=PetulaClark-Topic

.

Sex Pistols - God Save The Queen
http://youtu.be/yqrAPOZxgzU

It was inevitable that Labor would start chuntering about a republic early in the piece - despite the fact that only 32% of Australians preferenced them first. What is surprising is the appointment of an 'Assistant Minister for the Republic'. Who is he assisting?

This appointment leaves no doubt that the ALP government has no intention of defending the Constitution, as all governments are required to do. Never mind the massive wage bill for 40 odd Ministers and assistants.

There is no sane reason for Australia to become a republic. There is no sane reason to trash our history, even with the next Monarch.

Charles is an idiot, and the father of idiots. When HM is gone, so has the Monarchy, for me. However, there will still be no reason for a republic, which would cost a  motza, cause lots of inconvenience, and do nothing at all to improve life in Australia. 

Rather than celebrating Lizze's longevity in office, perhaps we should be celebrating modern medical science which permitted that longevity.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceX5jJ5fggs&ab_channel=QuantumMath

.

Good Morning everyone,

Thank You for all your comments and for continuing
to respond to my discussion and share your thoughts
with others. I appreciate it very much.

Thank You Banjo Paterson for the uplifting link
of the little girl who gave a coin to a street
musician and then got the biggest surprise. It
brought tears to my eyes - and was a lovely way
to start this week-end.

Hi O Sung Wu,

I've never noticed the Queen's make-up.
I again watched the movie with Helen Mirren
playing the role of Her Majesty last night -
about Princess Diana's death.
She did a brilliant job, I thought.

Is Mise,

You a dyed in the wool Irish Republican Monarchist?
I was given the DVD - "Belfast" - Kenneth Branagh's
recent movie. I haven't seen it yet - but it's supposed
to be excellent.

Armchair Critic,

Sex pistols?

My favourites are - "Queen." And of course Freddie Mercury
was hard to surpass. Still Sir Rod Stewart can hold his own
as well. He'll be singing at the concert for the Queen on
Sunday.

mhaze,

I think the Queen's longevity is more in her genes
(German, you know), than in the new technologies. But of course
they do help.

ttbn,

No one's thrashing our history. Labor's 2021 National Platform
stated "The party supports and will work towards establishing an
Australian Republic with an Australian Head of State."

Labor felt that a modern Australian Republic is an idea whose
time has come. However it won't be a priority in Labor's
first three years. Indigenous People will be.

You asked what Matt Thistlethwaite's job as Assistant Minister
for the Republic is?

His principal role is to educate the Australian people about
the current constitutional arrangements and the English monarch
as Head of State. Which most people would agree is a
sensible move on behalf of our new government because as
Queen Elizabeth comes to the twilight years of her reign, it
is a good opportunity for a serious discussion about what
comes next for Australia.

Is Mise,

This might be of interest:

http://theguardian.com/film/2021/belfast-review-kenneth-branagh-jamie-dornan-judi-dench

Is Mise,

Sorry, I left out the full date.

Here's the link again:

http://theguardian.com/film/2021/oct/12/belfast-review-kenneth-branagh-james-dornan-judi-dench

His principal role is to RE-educate the Australian people about
the current constitutional arrangements and the English monarch
as Head of State.

There you go...fixed it for you.

mhaze,

Very few Australians know anything about the constitutional
arrangements and the monarch as head of state. So it is not
a re-education but an education. And yes the Minister will
try to fix it.

Hi there FOXY...

Did I hear you mention Princess Di! Why oh why, did you have to sully the conversation by mentioning that piece of white trash!

"Very few Australians know anything about the constitutional
arrangements and the monarch as head of state. "

I very much doubt that. What I think is true is that the left assumes that if people disagree with their viewpoint, its due to ignorance (which needs to be fixed). The notion that people can look at the same circumstances and reach differing conclusions, rarely occurs to them.

Hi O Sung Wu,

I mentioned Princess Diana because of the movie
I watched last night "The Queen," starring Helen
Mirren, in which Diana's death played a pivotal
role.

In September 1997 the British public had a decidedly
different mood toward the royal family at that time.

After Princess Diana's death the collective confusion
and subsequent outrage over the royal's inacessibility
during the tragedy and the family's perceived coldness
towards Diana - who had been stripped of HRH title after
her divorce from Prince Charles caused a large segment of
the population to question the very existence of the
monarchy.

As for Princess Diana?

She used her celebrity to raise awareness for a number
of causes from HIV/Aids to leprosy, domestic violence,
mental health issues, the homeless and the disabled, and
much, much, more. She was a patron to over 100 charities.

She revitalized the British monarchy, and in death changed
it forever. Today the legacy lives on in everything from
the Windsor's more accessible approach to the public.
To William and Harry's charity work to everything Kate
does.

The Diana effect is alive and well and a guiding principle
for today's modern British monarchy.

mhaze,

Not everyone is as well informed as yourself.

Labor's decision was based on surveys they did and people
they spoke to regarding familiarity with the constitution
and the monarch's role as head of state.

It is a wise move for the government to take this step
and wanting people to be better informed and make
informed choices when it comes to referendums. The last
one failed because of the model presented. People need
to be better informed.

" The last
one failed because of the model presented. People need
to be better informed."

Yes it did fail because the political elite tried to force THEIR model down our throats. But rather than offer a more acceptable model they just want to RE-educate enough people into buying what they're selling.

WOW FOXY...

You are a real devotee of Princess Di. Hitherto know as; 'The Blond Bicycle of Kensington Palace'. by those poor buggers who had charge of protecting her. And who accompanied her to Oz and who handed over her protection to me and others as directed by Special Branch. True, she was a willowy lady of great looks and those looks charmed many a lover during her marriage with Charles who in turn competed with her trysts almost one for one.

She attend the bedside of one Richard 'Tricky Dickie' LYNOTT a really heavy Criminal who contracted AIDS by shafting (Rape) other Crims in Gaol. LYNOTT was dying in a Sydney Hospice at the time, and Di decided to only visit him, while ignoring other ordinary civilian AIDS sufferers in nearby beds who were also dying. Sometimes FOXY your altruism blinds you to reality.

mhaze,

Voters don't always buy what governments are selling as the
last election proves.

O Sung Wu,

I guess we can only speak from our own experiences
regarding Princess Diana. I've not had the experiences
that you have had. I've only read several
biographies and newspaper and magazine articles on her -
however you've experienced things first hand - and I think
that probably does make a big difference.

______________________________________________________________________Here's some more news on the royals:

We're told that " Scandal plagued Prince Andrew whose role in
the Queen's Platinum Jubilee celebrations was already as low key
as possible, now won't appear at all after he tested positive
for COVID-19."

Buckingham Palace confirmed the Duke of York's positive result
on Thursday.

"After undertaking a routine test the Duke has tested positive
for COVID and with regret will no longer be attending tomorrow's
service," a spokesman for the palace said.

He last saw the Queen just days ago. That will be a concern as
a positive test for the monarch could ruin the Jubilee.

I have just finished watching the Premiere of
Her Majesty The Queen's Platinum Jubilee Celebration
on Channel 7Plus. It was awesome. All the pomp and
pageantry that you would expect. Countries of the
Commonwealth taking part and the final speech given
by Dame Helen Mirren dressed as Queen Elizabeth I.
A truly remarkable evening and a wonderful kick-start
to the days of celebration to follow.

An amazing evening for all concerned that will live in
so many memories. Beautifully done.

The queen is a nice old lady, but I think my skeptical grandmother was probably a more interesting conversationalist.

I'm sorry FOXY if you think I'm wantonly attempting to sully Di's image & memory. Perhaps all I can say is, coppers can tend to be wingers and can only see & hear the worst in people, even the mega famous. On the other hand a VIP can often win over his/her close protection detail, by a small act of kindness.

As an example; I was on the close protection roster for George BUSH Snr, when he visited Australia back in the day. And I was detailed to be the liaison officer between the Secret Service and the police.

Albeit he was on Australian soil, under our jurisdiction, the Secret Service had total say on what protective measures were to be taken for the President. Irrespective what our own threat assessment on him might conclude? The US S/S and myself, were located in the M/V garage under the Consul General's residence. They numbered about ten from memory and myself.

Apparently he was to spend the night at the Chancellery with us in the garage. The senior S/S Officer, asked me to remove my F/A and I had to comply, as I was technically on US Soil. He was clearly embarrassed, explaining that, as I was not security cleared by them, therefore even though I was the Liaison officer between them an us (the police) there was a risk I might try to assassinate him!

For my trouble I finished my all night shift, clutching business cards, badges, and all manner of nick knacks bearing the US S/S Badge. Even stuff from Air Force 1 matches and other S/S ephemera. To this day I still receive a Christmas Card from one of the S/S fellows. And can they all eat! We enjoyed all manner of snacks, and goodies, all for the S/S guys. They're amongst the most generous group of people, of any nation, I've had to work with I reckon.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3ENX3aHlqU&ab_channel=axedagobert22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al7ONqrdscY&ab_channel=PabloSastre

.

I feel that Foxy's positive comments on the Queen are disingenuous- especially given her associated comments on the apparently contradictory Republic. Personally I find Foxy's comments offensive and lower her in my estimation. In the same complimentary comment Foxy is denying the Queens rightful existence- I'm sure Foxy is a hoot at funerals.

Voltaire's principle needs to be used wisely...

Voltaire's principle needs to be used wisely..

Canem Malum,
I don't even know what that is (will look it up after this) my gut feeling says I can't agree more !

Good Morning O Sung Wu,

I know that you've always expressed your feelings from
your own experiences (and from the heart).
I will always respect you for that.
Plus, your views have always made us think, no matter
what the issues were and they have added a great deal to
the conversations on this forum.

Banjo Paterson,

Thank You for the additional two links.

I loved them both. Sarah Brightman and Andrea Bocelli.
Time to say Goodbye. And Rod Stewart's Auld Lang Syne.
So fitting to this discussion.

Tonight Channel 7 will be screening the "Platinum Party
at the Palace," at 7.00 pm. It should be wonderful!

Our Prime Minister has pointed out that we Australians
continue to hold Queen Elizabeth "in respect and affection."
My mum was a staunch monarchist. But he said the relationship
between Australia and Britain had changed over the past 70
years. The Prime Minister said the bond between the
colonial power and the former colony -

"Is not longer what it was at the dawn of Queen Elizabeth's reign."

"No longer parent and young upstart, we stand as equals,"
Australia's Prime Minister said.

"More importantly, we stand as friends."

http://theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jun/02/we-stand-as-equals-anthony-albanese-labors-republican-agenda-in-speech-marking-queens-platinum-jubilee

" True patriotism does not exclude an understanding of the
patriotism of others."
(Queen Elizabeth II).

Sorry. Here's the link again:

http://theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jun/02/we-stand-as-equals-anthony-albanese-asserts-labors-republican-agenda-in-speech-marking-queens-platinum-jubilee

canem malum,

I can only take responsibility for what I say not
for how you interpret things. I have always made it clear
that I am not anti-British, but pro-Australian, and wanting
an Australian Head of State does not make me anti the
monarchy or the Queen.

However it's perfectly OK if you dislike me.
Not everybody has good taste.

For anyone interested:

Australians are invited to send a personal message of
Congratulations and Thanks to the Queen. Messages will be
accepted online until midnight 16th June 2022.

You can send your messages at:

http://platinumjubilee.gov.au/message-to-the-queen

I sent one on behalf of our family.

A few more words -

To lighten things up a bit.

"Her Majesty is British
She's our Head of State
She lives in a castle
Can she to us relate?

Her Governor-General's a lovely bloke
Who's diplomatic and unprovoked
He keeps her well-informed
To us he is important
His job is so well earned

We love the pomp and pageantry
That the royal bring
But most of all we're really glad
We don't have Charles as king! "

My apologies for the typo.

It should read - "We love the pomp and pageantry
That the royals bring...

Dear Foxy,

Charles seems as though he is marching to the rhythm of a different drummer. Maybe you shouldn't worry about him being king. Maybe he will be queen.

Foxy said-

However it's perfectly OK if you dislike me.
Not everybody has good taste.

Answer- Foxy seems to be doubling down on the offensive character

Dear David F.,

Des Hanafin, Irish Senator said:

"Prince Charles is the only member of the Royal Family
who ever left Cinderella for the Ugly Duckling."

canem malum,

I'm not saying that I also dislike you but if you
were on fire and I had water, I'd probably would
drink it!

Indyvidual- Voltaire's principle needs to be used wisely..
"I may not agree with what you say but I support your right to say it."
Some say that Voltaire didn't say it- but I think his supporters paraphrased him.

Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves!
Britons never shall be slaves.
http://youtu.be/1XPHL4Q86t4

"Inflation in the UK has hit its highest level in 40 years, particularly thanks to the dramatic rise in energy and food prices."
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/may/30/age-of-inflation-economy-rentier-capitalism

The grand ship Britannia is sinking...

.

“Voltaire’s principle” (freedom of expression)

.

In her book “The Friends of Voltaire” (1906), Evelyn Beatrice Hall describes Voltaire’s attitude to the censorship and burning of Claude-Adrian Helvétius’ book “De I'Esprit” as :

« I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it »

She does not specifically claim that he actually said that, nor does she quote her source. Voltaire died in Paris in 1778 and she was writing in the 20th century.

It is interesting to note that throughout the book, Hall presents Voltaire as a man of dialogue. On the presentation page of the book, she indicates the following citation :

« “II faut que les âmes pensantes se frottent I'une contre I'autre pour faire jaillir de la lumière”.

Voltaire : Letter to the Duc d'Uzès, December 4, 1751. »

Here is the link :

http://archive.org/details/cu31924027451032/page/n227/mode/2up

.

Thanks Banjo Paterson- good explanation. Kudos.

Thank You Banjo Paterson for the link.

Talking about freedom of speech. The following
link of Voltaire's is apt here:

"O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous."

___________________________________________________________________

Dear David F.,

Talking about Prince Charles?

Royal biographer Penny Juror tell us that there is a
"very, very little chance" that Prince Charles wouldn't
become king.

She says that:

He's been preparing for it for the last 70 years. An
abdication is only possible if Prince Charles's popularity
amongst the public deteriorates during the Queen's
death which is unlikely. And because in a Constitutional
Monarchy - the position of monarch is based on hereditary.
The tradition will be followed.

__________________________________________________________________

I watched the "Platinum Party at the Palace" last night on
Channel 7. Wow! It was spectacular!

The Brits certainly
know how to put on a Royal Spectacle! Totally awesome!
Not only the setting - the IMAX Screen in front of Buckingham
Palace, all the various bands and singers and celebrities
taking part, but the costumes, the screen imagery, and the
huge, huge, crowds making up the audience.

Then the Royals
themselves, including the kids - what an evening! The excitement
was palpable. The speeches were also very fitting. I especially
liked Stephen Fry's - prior to introducing Prince Charles.
Prince William made a great impression with his concern about
the environment. A truly memorable night!

And the Jubilee Celebrations will continue this week.
The Queen did not attend the concert last night (it was a very
long night) but according to Prince Charles she watched it
being filmed live on TV.

The concert on Channel 7 was followed by a film on Her
Majesty's life - previously unseen material - which was
interesting as well. Historical and memorable events for so many
people who lived during those times. Treasured memories.

Hey Foxy,

"Sex pistols?
My favourites are - "Queen." And of course Freddie Mercury
was hard to surpass. Still Sir Rod Stewart can hold his own
as well. He'll be singing at the concert for the Queen on
Sunday."

I was never really into the Sex Pistols all that much, but I've always been a bit of a stirrer.
- Which is why I shared both of songs I did.
Queens not too bad, but I was never really all that fond of Rod Stewart.
I'm funny with music, I can appreciate many different types.
I tend to be more interested in the songs themselves rather than those who perform them;
- And I kind of like upbeat music more than I do boring or depressing songs.

The American Revolution was, I believe, successful in getting rid of a king. I believe it would better if all the wasteful burden of royalty were eliminated. I would not replace royalty by a ceremonial head of state. If an event is important enough the prime minister or president could attend. If it is not important enough she or he can designate somebody else to go. I would eliminate state funerals. Why should the likes of Kerry Packer be honoured with one? A notable person can be remembered in the hearts and minds of those fellow citizens who deem that person worthy of remembrance.

I see no point in Australia becoming a republic if the vestiges of royal pomp are retained. Government which has power over the destiny of the subjects is a serious matter. It should be conducted in an atmosphere of republican simplicity.

Hi Armchair Critic,

Yes, music affects me in different ways as well.
It depends on my mood, the occasion, and where I am.
I love a wide variety of music from Country, to Rock,
to Gospel, to Disco, to Latin American, and even
Church Music can bring tears to my eyes. I remember watching
the funeral of Prince Philip. The music played was beautiful
and very moving. Also the old classics bring back so many
memories and uplift the soul.

On the other hand - I remember walking into a Bikie funeral
quite by accident - at Springvale Cemetery here in Melbourne.
We were there just after a friend's funeral. The bikie
funeral was electrifying . All the bikes lined up and being reved.
The casket with a lightning stripe down one side. Heavy metal
music being played. I got goose bumps. And the guys were so
nice to talk to. It was quite an experience. A positive one.

Dear David,

I love our system of government. All the different tiers.
From local, state, federal. I think they keep things in
check. I'm not against a monarchy. It certainly works for
Britain. I can't imagine Britain without The monarchy.
I can't imagine the Uk without the Royals.

I am for an Australian being our
Head of State but of course it will be up to the Australian
people to decide on that and vote on what kind of model
they want. The details will have to be worked out.

A country needs its traditions. Needs to have pride in its
history. I remember when we travelled around Mexico a few
decades ago - seeing opulent churches in poor impoverished
towns and wondering - why didn't the people invest in
irrigation and other life-saving devices in the village
instead of building such churches? I soon realized it came
down to pride and self respect. They needed something to
provide them with hope.

I'm not sure if I'm putting things properly but I think you
will understand what I am trying to say.

The Queen has made a surprise appearance on the balcony
with 3 generations of her family. There again were huge
crowds out in front of Buckingham Palace. This is the
end of 4 days of celebration to mark her Platinum
Jubilee.

Hi there FOXY...

Notwithstanding the pro's and con's of the monarchy; I've always felt in my own simply way, that HM, the Queen, and Great Britain, is the glue that holds the various Nations of our C'wealth together. Most of our laws, even definitions, our language, and most of our culture, emanate from the mother country. The queen, to me personally, is an amazing lady, and I adore her immensely.

I'd agree, more or less, with the sentiments expressed by the late Sir Robert MENZIES when he uttered similar wards; '...I'll love her 'til the day I die...'

Dear Foxy,

Some English enjoy the pomp and ceremony of the royal parasites. Others are aware of the emptiness and vainglory of it.

Ozymandias

By Percy Bysshe Shelley

I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

Hi O Sung Wu,

I admire the Queen enormously but I do think it is time
that every Australian had the chance to be Australia's
head of state. I feel that a Republic and an Aussie
head of state would make people even prouder to call
themselves true-blue. Of course it should be up to
the Australian people to decide what kind of model they
want.

The Queen has reigned during my entire life. But now with
her being in her twilight years - it is time to consider
all of our options.

Hi David,

Thank You for the poem.

I think the following one on Elizabeth II by Ruth Stacey
is appropriate:

http://poetryfoundation.org/poems/90166/elizabeth-ii

Dear Foxy,

Why do we need a head of state? We have a prime minister. If an event is sufficiently important the PM can go. If it is less important the PM can designate someone else to go. The head of state seems to me another mouth feeding at the public trough. It is an unnecessary position.

Dear David,

Of course the role of the head of state will have to be
better defined. I think it is useful though to have someone
other than the head of government to perform the
usually trivial duties which fall to a head of state.

I find it curious to see the President of the United States
who combines the roles of head of government and the head of state
performing routine ceremonial duties when there are urgent
political problems awaiting his attention.

Anyway, as I said all that will have to be thrashed out.

The following link might be of interest:

http://smh.com.au/national/why-do-we-need-a-head-of-state-20080121-gdrxp2.html

It agrees with your take on a head of state.

Sorry David. Apologies for my typo:

http://smh.com.au/national/why-do-we-need-a-head-of-state-20080121-gdrxpz.html

Dear David F.,

If there is to be a change to a republic in Australia
that maintains the Westminster System of responsible
government this will take time, considered thought,
and debate. In the very long term an Australian head of
state may be inevitable, so it is important to get it
right.

One final word about Shelley's poem. History if full of
the rises and falls of empire. No power is permanent
regardless of how omnipotent a ruler beliefs themselves
to be and we're reminded by Shelley - even the "King of
Kings" may one day be a forgotten relic of an "antique
land."

However in Elizabeth II's case Winston Churchill put it
rather well:

"It is not so much the power that she imposes but the
power that she denies others."

Dear Foxy,

I am sorry. They required a password to continue reading, and I didn't feel like continuing. I assume that, if there is a republic, there will probably be a head of state. Probably, most cabinet positions are pointless. The civil servants under the minister conduct the business, and the titular head can make speeches, do Sudoku or watch TV. If I were PM I would not appoint cabinet officials but would promote the senior public servant to head the cabinet if he or she seemed qualified. I would allow parliamentarians to vote their conscience on all questions. I would not send troops into action without a parliamentary debate unless the country were invaded, there was a civil disturbance or a treaty obligation. I would refuse corporate contributions and would consult lawyers to ensure proposed legislation was in proper form but would not accept lawyers as parliamentarians. Somebody would probably arrange my assassination.

O Sung wu said-

I've always felt in my own simply way, that HM, the Queen, and Great Britain, is the glue that holds the various Nations of our C'wealth together. Most of our laws, even definitions, our language, and most of our culture, emanate from the mother country. The queen, to me personally, is an amazing lady, and I adore her immensely.

I'd agree, more or less, with the sentiments expressed by the late Sir Robert MENZIES when he uttered similar wards; '...I'll love her 'til the day I die...'

Answer- Kudos O Sung Wu- you said it well.

.

« Do we need a head of state ? »

.

The function of head of state is that of a chief executive officer (CEO) of a major company except that in a democracy such as Australia, the head of state should be elected by the eligible citizens of the nation whereas a CEO is nominated by the board of directors of the company.

Australia’s major organisations such as Wesfarmers (217,000 employees), Woolworths (210,000 employees), and Coles (120, 000 employees) all have a CEO and Managing Director (MD). Depending on the size and complexity of the organisation, both functions are, in some cases, held by the same person and, in others, held separately by two different persons.

While the CEO is responsible for company strategy and execution, the Managing Director’s job is to ensure company goals get translated into the day-to-day, nitty-gritty operations.

Australia is an organisation of 26 million people. It is sufficiently vast and complex for the roles of head of state (CEO) and prime minister (MD) to be held separately by two different persons.

In my view, the president should be directly elected by the eligible Australian citizens and the prime minister nominated by the president – preferably a member of parliament, but not necessarily. As I see it, the prime minister should be chosen essentially for his managerial qualities.

In this organisational structure, as head of state, the president is directly accountable to the Australian people.

.

Dear David F.,

The role of the head of state under the Westminster System
of responsible government is curiously ill-defined.
The problem is not with the ceremonial functions however
as stated earlier it is useful to have someone other
than the head of government to perform the politically
trivial duties which fall to a head of state.

But I'm sure that all that will be worked out when the time
for decision making comes.

Dear Banjo Paterson,

Thank You for adding to this discussion.

The debate on this issue I'm sure will continue for some time
yet. And as I've said in the past - I'm sure that the voters
will get it right in the end. I think that it is time every
Australian had the chance to be Australia's head of state.
As Christopher Pine once said - "We wouldn't tolerate in
Australia today one of our elected representatives being
excluded from office on the basis of their religion or family,
yet we tolerate our head of state being chosen that wat."

"I don't feel that a hereditary monarch where our head of state
is chosen simply on the basis of the luck of being born into
the British royal family, is right for Australia."

We shall have to wait and see whether the majority of Australians
agree.

Dear Foxy,

Being the head of government is a tremendous strain and responsibility. One sees pictures of heads of government as they grow noticeably older for each year in office. If the politically trivial duties of the head of government are taken over by a head of state that simply puts a greater strain on the head of government. The politically trivial duties may be a relief from the strain of government. Having a head of state puts a greater strain on the head of government by denying her or him the relief of the trivial. That's another reason for not having a head of state.

Dear David F.,

Thank You for your valid explanations.

I understand the points that you are raising.

I guess we shall have to wait and see what the
proposals will be and which ones the government
feels will have the best chance of success with
the Australian voters. I suspect though this
won't happen during this first term in office
as the government has other priorities in mind.

Before I leave this discussion.
For me it's now run its course. I'd like to
Thank everyone who has contributed to
what started out as a simple discussion but has
now grown into something broader.

The Australian writer Ben Pobjie in his book,
"Aussie, Aussie, Aussie," points out that:

" There was a time when to be Australian was to be English,
only sunburnt. There was a time when to be Australian was to
be a dangerous criminal... As national identity has changed
in our own lifetime, it changed in our great-grandparents
lifetime, and even in their great-grandparents."

"Before Gallipoli nobody knew Australians could fight in
trenches. Before Errol Flynn nobody knew Australians could be
sexy in front of cameras. Before Julia Gillard nobody knew
Australians could be women."

"Australia is a process of revelation, of unveiling to the
world the surprising facts about ourselves that nobody knew."

What great Australians will define us in the future - we
have to wait and see. I guess what I am trying to say is
we should let the celebration of the Queen's Platinum
Jubilee be not only a reflection on our past, but a
salutary lesson for our future. So that we can create the
Australia we aspire to live in.

I look forward to our next discussion.

Hi there FOXY...

Much of what you say is correct in my opinion. What will happen when our Queen passes, who knows. Would Prince CHARLES make a credible King? I don't know, initially I thought so until he married Di and then on to Camilla? I've been told Camilla is a very nice, engaging sort of lady, well liked by all those who've known her. Now Prince CHARLES. as King? Hmmm? What of Prince ANDREW (Hero flyer-Falklands) or Prince HARRY (credible war service in Afghanistan) Or Prince EDWARD (gifted media producer) three potential monarchs or not? How does one determine the fitness or otherwise to take charge of the monarchy?

Hi there CANEM MALUM;

You seem to speak with a lot of common sense on many of the topics presented on the Forum. As does TTBN. Thanks for your earlier support for my opinion(s) and feelings for our monarch; H.M. The Queen. I do appreciate it.

.

Head of state

.

1. OED definition :

The chief public representative of a country, such as a president or monarch, who may also be the head of government.
.

2. Wikipedia :

« A head of state (or chief of state) is the public persona who officially embodies a state in its unity and legitimacy. Depending on the country's form of government and separation of powers, the head of state may be a ceremonial figurehead (such as the British monarch) or concurrently the head of government and more (such as the president of the United States, who is also commander-in-chief of the US Armed Forces).

« In a parliamentary system, such as the United Kingdom or India, the head of state usually has mostly ceremonial powers, with a separate head of government. However, in some parliamentary systems, like South Africa, there is an executive president that is both head of state and head of government. Likewise, in some parliamentary systems the head of state is not the head of government, but still has significant powers, for example Morocco. In contrast, a semi-presidential system, such as France, has both heads of state and government as the de facto leaders of the nation (in practice they divide the leadership of the nation between themselves). Meanwhile, in presidential systems, the head of state is also the head of government. In communist states, the position of President has no tangible powers by itself, however, since such a head of state, as a matter of custom, simultaneously holds the post of General Secretary of the Communist Party, they are the executive leader.

« Former French president Charles de Gaulle, while developing the current Constitution of France (1958), said that the head of state should embody l'esprit de la nation ("the spirit of the nation") »
.

NOTE : France is a presidential system except on rare occasions when the opposition wins a majority at a legislative election and the opposition controls the parliament.
.

3. UN list of Heads of state, Heads of government & Ministers of foreign affairs :

http://www.un.org/dgacm/sites/www.un.org.dgacm/files/Documents_Protocol/hspmfmlist.pdf

.

Dear O Sung Wu,

Your feelings regarding the monarch are understandable.
She has reigned during our entire lives and the office
she holds is infinitely older. To many people it has
always been a great asset and a re-assuring constant in
a world of constant change.

Her life of service is in stark contrast to a world
becoming more self-centred and less giving.

The question of a Republic will probably occur when the
Queen hands over the reign or passes.

Dear Banjo Paterson,

Thank You for the explanations about the head of state and
the link. They are aooreciated.

If there is to be a change to a republic in Australia
that maintains the Westminster System of responsible
government this will take time, considered thought, and
debate. In the very long term an Australian head of state
may be inevitable, so it is important to get it right.

Thanks O Sung Wu for your kind support- At times I remember that you had a few heated debates on OLO and you took a break for a while- sometimes in my imagination I'm picking up the flag where you left off.

Ttbn and I agree on many things.

I try to speak with common sense- call it the way I see it- I think you do too- and hope that others will see it if something I say makes sense- we're all learning in a sense- I try to say something that adds a new perspective to the dialogue.

In fact there are quite a few great minds on OLO that aren't ideologues. Sometimes it isn't easy- we have to stand and face the tidal wave. I can't in good conscience cave in to Wokism and Communism- or self censor my speech and thought- doublespeak- based on "blank slatist" principles.

I speak through an anonymous alias but has advantages and disadvantages- I'm sure that if I said anything truly dangerous there would be a knock- it's becoming a concern that even the police are becoming infected by Communism- hopefully they still have some constraints and won't dox and render me "persona non grata"- but if it happens- we have to take some risks to protect our civilization.

Many people feel that their speech constrained by threats- we have to find a way around that tactic.

I try to read to understand the ideas underlying policy, systems, and processes.

One of the issues Traditionalists have is they don't stand up for each other. The Socialists seem to have advanced tactics- and they stand up for each other.

Any good thinker needs to be able to hold up the mirror to themselves- without becoming weak in the face of adversity. On the other hand sometimes I don't even agree with myself.

The current attack on the monarchy and the Queen's position by anti-monarchists/ Socialists is concerning for the stability of Australia and the world- this is all to say that I support you because you're right.

Thanks again O Sung Wu.

The case for the republic in Australia stands on its
own right. It does not need dishonest campaigns against
the Queen and the monarchy that might make a small
minority of pro-republicans feel good - but it certainly
does not help their cause.

Republicans out number monarchists in Australia and have
for some time. Most republicans do not hate either the
Queen, the monarchy, or England as some suggest. Being
pro-republic does not equate with hatred.

What is true however, is that support for a republic is
shallow and without agreement on the pivotal question -
what type of republic?

This is something that as I stated earlier will take time,
considered thought, and debate.

Possibly in the long term an Australian head of state
may be inevitable (it's up to the Australian people)
so it is important to get it right.

Foxy,
The Queen may have reigned during your entire life but not mine and there’s that ‘infinite’ again; will you never learn ?

Is Mise,

Being of noble birth myself - I have the habit of using
the royal plurals often.

As for the term "infinitely older," as used here. It actually
it not intended to infer to "infinity" but to something
being - "much" older as I
explained to you earlier.

Is Mise,

My use of "infinitely" was meant - to an extent or degree.
(much older).

You can say for example, an infinitely large number.
Infinitely more complicated or complex,
infinitely old, infinitely wise, et cetera.

Foxy,
As was explained to you the office that she holds dates to 1660, which by world standards is not very old,
Japan traces it’s Monarchy to 660 BC.

Is Mise,

As explained to you several times now - the office
the queen holds is much older than she is.

What is your problem?

One of the most exciting experiences in my life was hearing May Harwood, a math professor in university lecturing on different kinds of infinity. Some of that joy can be experienced by going to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity

More of the joy can be experienced by going to:

https://ma225.wordpress.ncsu.edu/

Happy infinities

Foxy,
But not infinitely older, not even four times older.

Dear David F.,

"To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour."

( William Blake).

Is Mise,

The office the Queen holds is infinitely much older than
she is.

Foxy,
Paint dryiny OK?

Actually the Office that Elizabeth II holds is “Queen of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland” and that only dates from 1947, when the Irish Free State declared itself the Republic of Ireland.

Is Mise,

The office the Queen holds is still older than
she is.

Is Mise,

You ask, "Paint drying ok?"

Well as Danny Kaye advised:

"Life is a great big canvas,
throw all the paint you can on it."

And that's what I'm doing.

Foxy,
What office does the Queen hold then?

Is Mise,

Elizabeth II is Queen of the United Kingdom and 14
other Commonwealth realms.

There have been 61 monarchs of England and Britain
spread over a period of approx. 1,200 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II

Foxy
But that was broken by the Republic in 1649 and the title changed in 1947, hardly infinite and I asked what her title is, not what she is Queen of.

Is Mise,

You asked me:

"What office does the Queen hold then?"

I answered your request.

However -

I ran out of posts before I could also add the following:

Elizabeth Alexandra Mary, Elizabeth II, by the Grace of God,
of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
and of her other realms and territories Queen, Head of the
Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.

http://britannica.com/summary/Elizabeth-II

Is Mise,

Here is a list of titles and honours of Elizabeth II :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_titles_and_honours_of_Elizabeth_II

The Queen's Platinum Jubilee ends on a high note:

http://abc.net.au/news/2022-06-06/queen-elizabeth-ii-jubilee-celebrations-end-with-pageant-london/101127850#

David F- mentioned the different types of infinitely- I remember the proof that the number of reals is uncountable whereas the number of rationals is countable- countable vs uncountable infinity. But from memory David F was a maths teacher in a Brisbane private school.

Perhaps one of the reasons for the high crime rate on the Gold Coast and Hinterland is because it's on the border with NSW.

The Queen's Platinum Jubilee and the Queen will be celebrated for a while yet by those that wish her well. I think that Foxy by her comments has lost her credibility in any positive words that she might say about the Queen.

Canem Malum,

I have no control of what you think.

I know what's in my heart.