Just a question.

Why is Albo unable or unwilling to answer financial questions? Why when asked does he either run away or tell the reporters to ask the FM or treasurer?

Do we really want this economic dullard to be our PM?

Not aware of Albanese doing that SM, I thought at the beginning of the campaign, particularly when he stumbled on the first day, he was in for it at the hands of Morrison and the media. In general the bloke has performed well, exceptionally well when he had the week in isolation, he hasn't done the Labor campaign any real damage. I don't think Morrison has lost the Coalition any votes that they had before the campaign started, but he hasn't gained them any either. The Coalition came into this election with a lot of political baggage, and they haven't successfully off loaded it yet, times running out, so it may play heavily on them tomorrow, but at this stage we can only wait and see.

Albanese can't tell us what he doesn’t know. I've just said in another post in the main area that the best way to bring a country to its knees is to get an idiot to lead it. That worked in America; it will work here if the Green, Labor, Teals get their way.

Both leaders of the two major parties have had their
slip ups. And the slip ups have given the campaigns
ammunition to use against their opponents. However the
big difference between the two leaders is that Anthony
Albanese is capable of admitting his mistakes and
taking responsibility for them and then seeking to correct
them whilst Scott Morrison is not capable of doing any of
that. Despite what he may say.

The Liberal
Party has been seeking to paint Anthony Albanese as an
economic risk while Labor has been painting Scott
Morrison as an arrogant tactician full of slogans and
soundbites who only cares about winning at all costs
and has achieved nothing over the years. They have been
stressing his lack of transparency and self-entitlement.

Morrison has also been unable to answer similar questions
about the price of bread and petrol at the National Press
Club earlier this year and he has been on the defense about
the status of former Education Minister Alan Tudge, and refused
to comment on Rachelle Miller - the former Coalition staffer
in a relationship with Tudge who supposedly had received a payout
of $500,000.

Despite everything Anthony Albanese is still coming across as
a leader who will govern by consensus - bringing business,
unions, and civil society together. As someone who will observe
"proper" processes and allow genuine debate in Cabinet. He won't
be running the show himself as Morrison does.

Hence Morrison's admission of being a "bulldozer," and saying that
he will change. Few think he's capable of change.

Yet many people feel that Anthony Albanese's ability to
orchestrate consensus will hold him in good stead for
tackling all the thorny policy challenges that lie ahead

Foxy,

When Albozo was asked about a policy and couldn't answer until his minder gave him a sheet he later lied about it.

Also:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10737277/Anthony-Albanese-accused-lying-leaders-debate-old-interview-comes-haunt-him.html

And

https://hotcopper.com.au/threads/each-way-albo-caught-lying-again.6692638/

I'm sorry but Albozo has neither the intellect nor integrity that Morrison has.

Well, with Getup and this site,

https://www.howtovote.org.au

I get concerned about how independent the independents really are. How to vote ALP without realising you are voting ALP. Yes, I have concerns about seeing a dummy PM as well. I'd like to vote for cheap energy. The renewable energy disaster needs to be averted.

Morrison has also been unable to answer similar questions
about the price of bread and petrol
Foxy,
That's actually quite a ridiculous question as these prices vary dramatically from place to place.
What our dumbo journos need to ask is "will either of the two address the dumbing-down of students in our Universities ?". Or, "will they address crime & the lax penalties ?" etc etc.
Ask relevant questions rather than just stupidly trying to entrap them for cheap ABC headlines !

Shadow,
I regard understanding of issues as much more important than memory of statistics.
Likewise integrity isn't trying to look good in interviews. ScoMo's trying to hoodwink the public last election (end of the weekend, etc) and subsequently claiming there's nothing wrong with Sports Rorts shows integrity and honesty are not his strong suits.

A bulldozer isn't the only thing he is that begins with "bull".

Thanks Aidan.

I stated on other threads that the prime ministership
of Scott Morrison is the story of a leader who has
lost to an extraordinary degree, community trust as well
as personal support within his party.

He's become so disliked in the city seats where moderate
Liberals are under siege from "teal" independents that he
can't campaign in those electorates.

Anyway, we'll see what the results will be at the end of
this day. He believes in miracles. Perhaps he'll need
another one not to lose.

"Do we really want this economic dullard to be our PM?"

Hell NO! - But unfortunately this is only MY opinion;
And given that we're a nation of idiots now, it's 'anything goes'.

Anything Goes - Cole Porter
http://youtu.be/dxCjpEc66Dw

ScumO' GONE!

Paul, I thought that he’d win through.
Oh!Well, I had a 50/50 chance of being right.

Is Mine,
Australia lost today !

Yesterday,

Australia put the political trash OUT. I was delighted with the GREEN vote, and we are on track to pick up 3 lower house seats to add to Adam Bandt's seat of Melbourne, and the Senate is likely to go the same way. The far right led by Hanson and Palmer failed. Hopefully here in Queensland along with 'Hard Boiled' Newman the right wing ratbags will be kept out of the Senate.

Now Labor will have the task of getting in and finding the real economic mess the Coalition has left behind. I suspect the true position of Liberal Debt will be revealed as far worse than ScuMo' and Friedbrain were admitting.

Brace yourselves for Mayhem Mk3 !

Indyvidual, what is with the new 'nick', have you seen the light and are trying to atone for past sins. Or are you Individual's twin brother?

Paul,
Triplet Brother

The baton is now in the hands of Anthony Albanese.
Voters has clearly sent a message. They are
sick of division, inaction on climate, on integrity,
on equality. The following link explains:

http://abc.net.au/news/2022-05-22/election-2022-anthony-albanese-wins-transformative-election/101087834

The Liberals now face the challenge on what has caused the
demise of a once great party. Simon Birmingham says that the
party needs to accept the message that has been sent and act on it.

Of course a great deal will depend on who their new leader
will be as to how successful the party will be in fixing things.

"A generation of Liberal politicians has been lost and the
recriminations will be wide and deep."
(Patricia Karvelas).

Hi Foxy,

Dud Dutton is certainly not the person to lead the Liberal Party out of the wilderness. If so called "liberal values", whatever they supposedly be, are to be restored, it will take more than an out of touch wrecker like Dutton to achieve that.

I was not overly concerned with the result yesterday. If I was looking for a perfect result, well that was it. I had a good day, despite the Brisbane rain.

Albo is an accidental PM.

Indy,
Do you mean the accidental result of people choosing ScoMo over Shorten last time?

'Dud' Dutton will have a cheer squad of crusty old blokes on OLO. That will give him about half dozen votes next election. ttbn, Indy, Hassy, CM, Issy, SM, mhaze. Three years of these old blokes on here "crying in their beer." I'm so excited, can't wait.

shadowminister,

On the sulks early by the look.

Morrison had a lame Science degree, Albo has a degree specifically in economics. So he couldn't pull the unemployment figure out of his backside on command. Sure he should have been on top of it but he is far more qualified that that twat Morrison who did his honours on a "demographical analysis of Christian Brethren assemblies in Sydney".

Chalk and cheese mate.

a degree specifically in economics
Steeleredux,
"Degrees" are what cause the hurdles put up for every-day life !

Indy,

That outranks a "degree" in biblical BS. Your typical right wing notion that the population should be dumbed down to the level of knuckle draggers is typical far right belief, you hate the educated, as they see through you to easily.

Hi Paul,

Our democracy is alive and well.
These are very exciting times in our country.
Australia has voted - and what a vote!
The rusted-on voters are a minority. People
have made it clear in this election that
politicians who ignore the voices of their
communities, who don't listen to their voters
do so at their peril. Politics in this country
will never be the same again. People's voices do
matter. And our politics has changed. Exciting times
ahead! We now have a consultative team - not a bulldozing
team. It's about time.

There is a load of rubbish spoken about the character of most
politicians. They are attacked by the supporters of other parties
as being dreadful people. I never thought it all that bad that Albo
didn't know the unemployment rate. A bit surprising for a Labour
pollie but not all that important, especially because it is so low.
Similary with ScoMo, the criticism of him borders on ridiculous.
He was the boss and running a team of pollies would be like herding cats.
There are very few pollies that are not at least trying to do their best.
There are some such as Brandt the Greenie, who likewise thinks he
is saving the planet, but just ignores the contra evidence, or does
not understand it. He has become convinced, but if the next cold
cycle started tomorrow he would find it to be a global warming
artifact and caused by co2. I mean, what else could it be ?

As citizens, we need to be more tolerant of those we employ to do
a job that relies on guessing what will happen tomorrow or the day after.

Voters have clearly sent a message. They are sick
of the government's finger-pointing, and personal attacks,
of division, and most of all of inaction on climate,
on integrity, on equality, on the Indigenous Voice to
Parliament, and so many other vital
issues that the current government has ignored or blamed the
Opposition for.

As Simon Birmingham has said - voters have sent a loud and clear
message that things need to change both in the country but also
in the way we govern. Birmingham has made it clear that the
Liberal Party need to accept the challenge of what has caused
the demise of a once great party and look at what needs to be
done to fix things.

Rusted-on supporters should not just continue to blame the
Opposition. That won't change anything. Also it all depends on
who they elect as their new leader - and whether he's prepared
to listen and want changes to be made

If you keep on doing the same old thing and yet expect
different results - you're nuts!

SR,

Once again you have cocked it up in several ways.

Firstly, as I started this thread before the election and haven't commented since your accusation of sulking on your part is a blunder.

Secondly, Morrison's Bachelors's and Honours degrees were in economics and further than that he reached the position of managing director before moving permanently into politics. By comparison, Albozo with a basic economics degree started work for the Labor party as a gopher/research officer and since has never held any position with any requirement for economics or management skills.

Finally, any Minister with even the faintest interest in economics would have the unemployment and cash rate at the forefront of his mind. That Albozo clearly had no idea shows that he is both clueless and could care less. This is not a frivolous cock up. That this was only one of many cock ups shows that Albozo is an intellectual lightweight.

Shonky, what was ScuMo' the "managing director" of. The Liberal Party Prayer Room, did he direct the in and out traffic, and put the "Do Not Disturb" sign on the door.

That's right Morrison was also the marketing man behind the lollipop commercials. Sung the jingle, while playing the ukulele, to the tune of 'Tip Toe Through The Tulips'.

That outranks a "degree" in biblical BS.
Paul,
How many policy, legislative, PC etc regulations have been imposed by non-Degree holders ?
If you can name one you're doing well !

Forget Morrison's degree. We never did find out why he was fired from his two Tourism jobs nor why 50 relevant documents were denied by FOI requests on instruction from the PM's office.

Thanks shadowminister for the clarification-

It appears that perhaps Albanese did better earlier on by getting into Sydney but Morrison completed to a higher level by doing specialist Economics to honours level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Morrison
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_geography

Morrison attended Sydney Boys High School before going on to complete a Bachelor of Science (B.Sc.) honours degree in applied economic geography at the University of New South Wales.[1][24][25] His honours thesis, a demographical analysis of Christian Brethren assemblies in Sydney, was deposited in the University of Manchester Library's Christian Brethren Collection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Albanese

Albanese- After finishing school, he worked for the Commonwealth Bank for two years before studying economics at the University of Sydney.[24] There, he became involved in student politics and was elected to the Students' Representative Council.[25] It was also there where he started his rise as a key player in the ALP's Labor Left.

It's interesting that both the Labor and Liberal parties have a youth wing perhaps other parties also need youth wings- the Far Left appear to be inducting children as young as four into their politics due to the politicised education system.

CM,

"the Far Left appear to be inducting children as young as four into their politics"

More of your "reds under the beds" paranoia. If there is any indoctrination going on, its by religious nut jobs like the church Morrison attends.

"reds under the beds" paranoia
Paul,
That indoctrination has been going on for decades and, it pays dividends for them. You're a prime example !

Voters have clearly sent a message.
Foxy,
yes, I'm sure we won't have to wait very long for the repercussions !

Actually it is Greens Under the Bed !
or in the play pen to be more exact !

Bazz,

The far right extremists got defeated on all fronts. Both the climate deniers and the flat earth people. You must be disappointed! I know who's in the sand pit, people who can't stand reality.

individual,

" Yes indeed - a generation of Liberal politicians
has been lost and the recriminations will be wide
and deep!" (Patricia Karvelas).

Bazz,

" There may have been lots of swirling currents but
the results of the federal election were overwhelmingly
that 2022 was, finally, the climate election."
(Laura Tingle).

Paul, do you define deniers as far right people ?
Anybody from mad lefties to outright Nazis can be deniers ?
Anybody can be a realist.
Why should this cycle be such a cause for panic merchants ?
to paraphase Bill Clinton;

IT'S THE SUN STUPID !

It won’t be long now before the Champions of the Working Class amend the tax laws to allow employees to claim travelling expenses to and from work as tax deductions, and the removal of the GST component on petrol excise will quickly follow suit.
Remember when Keating, another champion of the workers, said that the excise on petrol was not a tax?

Dear CM,

Usual veneer opinion for you.

Let's try a little deeper.

"Morrison had a curious work history before entering parliament. He held a variety of short-term positions within the Liberal Party and short-term contracts within the tourism industry. In 1998, he became head of NZ’s newly formed Office of Tourism and Sport. In 2006, he was appointed managing director of Tourism Australia."

...

"On 17 November 2018, Middleton notes, ‘The 1999 report by NZ’s controller and auditor-general examined the December 1998 resignations of two heads of the NZ Tourism Board, as well as payouts to them, that were later found to be unlawful. The report criticised Morrison’s role in the lead-up to these events.’

‘Scott Morrison left NZ’s Office of Tourism and Sport, a year after the audit report was published and a year before the end of his contract. The reasons for his early departure have never been fully explained.’

Annika Smethurst describes Morrison’s Tourism Australia (TA) job: ‘Following a three-month hunt, Morrison was offered the Tourism Australia $320,000-a-year role as managing director of the federally funded body – reporting to the TA board chairman (and former Deputy Prime Minister) Tim Fischer and to the new Minister for Small Business and Tourism, Fran Bailey.’

From the start, ‘TA Board Chairman, Tim Fischer, and his Deputy Chairman, Tony Clark, met Fran Bailey for lunch… those familiar with the meeting say the pair came to Canberra for one reason only: to warn her about Morrison, who was already proving difficult to handle.’"

...

"‘In February 2006, after spending millions of dollars on market research, Tourism Australia unveiled its big new advertising campaign, which asked the world: “So Where The Bloody Hell Are You?”. But within weeks of its release, the campaign hit a major roadblock…’

Karen Middleton reports that this ‘period was the subject of a scathing 2008 Australian National Audit Office report that disclosed what preceded the then Tourism Minister Fran Bailey’s decision to sack Morrison, backed by then Prime Minister John Howard and his department.’"

http://www.echo.net.au/2022/04/details-from-the-work-histories-of-morrison-and-albanese/

Yup. Reeking in competence wasn't he.

Patricia Karvelas
Foxy,
You're not doing yourself any favours quoting that one !

individual,

What part of the quote do you disagree with?

What part of the quote do you disagree with?
Foxy,
Anything she discusses is anti conservative no matter if it makes sense or even more sense. She is one of the worst biased commentators on the market. God help us if she ever gets a journalist certificate !

Foxy,

Before politics, Albozo was a bank teller. He has no business or financial credibility whatsoever.

shadowminister,

Our Prime Minster worked at the Commonwealth Bank after
finishing high school. He then went on to the University
of Sydney and got a degree in economics. Also his political
career is very wide and varied. He's a very experienced
politician and is well known for both his experience and
negotiation skills. Your nit-picking and focusing only on
what the man did just after he left high school - says so
much about your character. Pathetic!

With attitudes like yours - I doubt if your party will ever
recover from Saturday's results. Voters are seeing you guys
as you really are!

___________________________________________________________________

individual,

You did not answer my question as to what you objected to in
the quote I gave of Patricia Karvelas. When she said:

"A generation of Liberal politicians has been lost and the
recriminations will be wide and deep."

Are you suggesting this hasn't happened?

And why the personal attacks on her?

Surely you can do better?

Perhaps not.

As for questioning her qualifications as a journalist?

She is recognised as one of the best journalists in the
Australian media. She's a graduate of RMIT University.
After graduation she began her professional career with
the ABC and SBS. She's also worked with Rupert Murdoch owned
newspaper - "The Australian" and "Sky News Australia."
She was the Victorian Bureau Chief and Senior National
Affairs Journalist for the Australian. She used to host
a weekly program called "Karvelas" at Sky News Australia.

Currently she is working at the Radio National program. She's
been RN Drive's presenter for five and a half years now.
Furthermore Patricia joined the ABC News 24 Channel in 2018
to host their show - "Afternoon Briefing." She also so-hosts
a weekly political podcast - " The Party Room."

And there's so much more. But that'll do for now.
Your ignorance is really embarrassing.

__________________________________________________________________

shadowminister,

What qualifications and experience does Peter Dutton have?
Do tell.

Hi Foxy,

Your ask, what qualifications does Peter Dutton have.

I'll have you know he does a very good impersonation of 'Mr Potato Head', sorry that's incorrect, he IS Mr Potato Head

Hi Paul,

I doubt very much if anything is going to change for
the Liberal Party if they elect the same old, same old
team.. What they need is find new forward-thinking
leaders who will look at what the party did wrong
and try to learn from it. They need to consider their
party's core values, look at solid policies and plan how
they will address the many problems that face the country.

I'm not an expert but as Robert Ellis writing in The Spectator
Australia has pointed out - One of the reasons for failing
so badly in this recent election was that it was no use telling
people that "we have done better than others," or that their opponents
would be worse - unless some you have some concrete plans in all
sorts of areas including, education, defence, economy, energy, and
employment that are proposed and disseminated by the whole team.

Ellis says that the government failed in its primary objective and
deserved to be replaced. They had no real policies and even
fewer plans. They were caught out so many times when they
could have displayed forward thinking and planning.

And unless this changes - history will simply repeat itself.
I'm not betting on anything changing.

Foxy,

You also can look it up:

"On leaving the police, Dutton became a businessman, completing a Bachelor of Business at the Queensland University of Technology.[1][14] He and his father founded the business Dutton Holdings, which was registered in 2000; it operated under six different trading and business names.[15] The company bought, renovated, and converted buildings into childcare centres."

So even Dutton has far better qualifications than Albozo.

"Dutton Holdings, which was registered in 2000; it operated under six different trading and business names."

Sounds like a TAX DODGE. In the coppers he was Constable Dutton!

Constable Dutton claimed that he left the force in 1999 to study at university and work in the family business. But the truth is he left because he had "low confidence in driving".

Pauliar,

So essentially you have bugger all and are just making up stuff.

shadowminister,

History will be the judge on Scott Morrison,
and the Liberal Party. The voters have already
made their feelings known.

As for Peter Dutton and his
qualifications? We'll have to wait and see whether he's
a forward thinking leader who is capable of uniting
the party and capturing the votes the party has lost.
If he's the "extremist" that some claim he is - I don't
like his or the party's chance of survival.

I doubt if Dutton will ever match that.

As for Anthony Albanese? His qualifications and experience
got him the top job. A win, is a win, is a win!

Foxy,

As the leader of the opposition, Dutton's job will be to hold Labor's feet to the fire. A job that Abbot did fantastically well.

While Dutton is not my first choice as PM but should be able to nail the lightweight Albozo.

From all the talent in Labor, I can't believe that Albozo was their best choice.

Tanya Plibersek has confirmed her lack of class by comparing Dutton to a Harry Potter character. One wonders if this is the sort of woman we apparently need more of in politics.

ttbn,

I take it you'd prefer women like burqa wearing and screaming
we're being over run by Asians - Pauline Hanson?

Actually Peter Dutton would be great as a character in the
Harry Potter stories. His bald head and often expressionless
face would add to his appeal as a villain, and that's not even counting his merciless demeanour.
__________________________________________________________________

shadowminister,

Well we've had Little Johnnie Howard, the Mad Monk,
Mr Harbourside Mansion, ScoMo or the Liar From The Shire, or
Scotty from Marketing. But Peter Dutton will be the only
Liberal leader who has the nickname of a vegetable - Mr
Potato Head. Not sure if that's enough to
get him to The Lodge.

At present - how much relief is everyone feeling?
Many people around Australia are feeling
euphoria and relief. Many think that voting for people
like Dr Monique Ryan is a moment of national celebration.
Thank You Kooyong

Foxy,

For god's sake grow up, at junior school every bald person was likened to Mr potato head. Albozo is a clown's name.

And the 67% of people that didn't vote for labor are probably thinking,
Oh ** here we go again.

shadowminister,

Coming from someone who calls previous Labor PMs
Juliar, Krudd, now - Albozo, is telling me to
grow up?

You first Sir!

Thank You Australia!

Hi Foxy,

I was not surprised with the GREEN vote, doing a days door knocking in BRISBANE I got the sense we were in for a good result, very positive response. Bernard did well with 17% up 5% from last election, with a very small election budget, say 1/200th of the likes of Josh Frydenberg, with $200k just from mystery donors, fortunately Bonner has now become marginal LNP. We have a problem with pre-polls, and particularly postal votes, the GREENS don't have an "organised army" but rather relying on our grass roots supporters, unlike the big two, who do well to garner votes from that source. I was surprised the TEAL INDEPENDENTS did as well as they did, I expected them to win a couple of seats, along with existing MP Zali Steggall but now there are five more added.

Mr Potato Head said he is going to expand the Liberal vegie patch to include new varieties, but none of those boutiquie arty-farty type not just pumpkin heads and corn cobs, others. Alas I'm afraid no green vegies will be included, and certainly red capos will not be tolerated! But unfortunately the sign on Party HQ door still reads "No Chicks Allowed"! But someone did add, "Unless You're Good Look'n" Trying to be inclusive.

Hi Paul,

I think you may enjoy this:

http://news.com.au/national/politics/voldermort-tanya-pliberseks-stinging-insult-of-peter-dutton/news-story/6c1f54cd15c628d25200b5bba72afea8

"The Prime Minister agreed the comments about Peter Dutton's appearance were unacceptable as he urged politicians to show respect".

I watched the ABC's election round up. Plibersek was there, but only spoke when asked a question - and then she looked startled. There was no sign of the person some thought might lead the party one day. Not on the ball at all. I wondered if she was on something, so different was her demeanour to what it has been. And now this juvenile and insulting comment about Dutton. At 52, she seems to be clapped out.

Thanks Foxy,

ttbn you should talk, and stop "crying in your beer", over the result, get over it. You were plugging The Lovely Pauline, Fat Clive and 'Hard Boiled' Newman. Just like you backed Corny Banana in 2019, your trifecta of fools went down once again. You sure can pick em'!

The energy regulator is already ignoring Labor’s 'cheaper electricity' promise with the news that costs will be going up as much as 18% this next financial year, whacking up the average household's bill by $1,600 a year.

I am all for giving the new government a go; but one big promise shot down in flames less than a week after the election!

ttbn,
The problem has been worsening for a long time, and it's not something that can be solved in a week. It takes time to put up solar panels.

Does the average household really pay $8888/year for electricity already? I wouldn't've guessed the figure to be anywhere near that high.

I've always thought Putin resembled Voldemort - I'm a bit puzzled why Plibersek would think Dutton did.

_________________________________________________________

Paul,
A tax dodge would be a string of different companies.
One company using several different names would be a diversified business. The sort of thing portrayed on the TV show Very Small Business (which was made for Foxtel but subsequently shown on ABC).

_________________________________________________________

Canem,
Economic geography is usually more geoinfomatics than economics. And as far as I can tell (without reading it) Morrison's thesis also involved a fair bit of history.

And you can't really tell much by the fact that someone's studied economics at university. Certainly it CAN be very useful, but macroeconomic misinformation is rife. What I find far more telling is Scotty's criticism of Albo not having held an economic portfolio; it suggests Scotty didn't understand the crucial economic role that infrastructure plays.

After watching Q and A last night as well as listening
to Penny Wong's speech in Fiji, and our PM's performance
at the QUAD meeting - I feel that our newly elected
government is doing very well.

I'm also optimistic about legislation being able to be
passed in Parliament - the negotiation skills and
flexibility of our new leaders points to success.

So relieved with the general lay of the land thus far!

Aidan,

Mean girl Tanya's comment was pure spite.

Electricity costs are sure to rocket up under labor's renewable splurge as cheap coal plants are shut and ratepayers are stuck paying off huge subsidies.

Finally, if you'd looked up the curriculum for economic geography you would have seen that it has nothing to do with geoinformatics and is a high-level mathematical treatment of economics to a level that a muppet like Albozo couldn't grasp.

SM became a highly paid MD and Albozo became a Labor lackey.

shadowminister,

And despite your "assessment - Scott Morrison will
be on the backbench and Anthony Albanese is our new
Prime Minister!

Life is sweet for some!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_geography

In a sense Aiden could be right about Economic Geography being related to Geoinformatics but given the Maths/ Computing heavy nature of this field it makes me respect Prime Minister Scott Morrison even more.

But ShadowMinister you're right too- Economic Geography according to the wiki article doesn't always relate to Geography but to "social, cultural, and institutional factors in the spatial economy".

"There are varied methodological approaches. Neoclassical location theorists, following in the tradition of Alfred Weber, tend to focus on industrial location and use quantitative methods. Since the 1970s, two broad reactions against neoclassical approaches have significantly changed the discipline: Marxist political economy, growing out of the work of David Harvey; and the new economic geography which takes into account social, cultural, and institutional factors in the spatial economy."

Interesting that Marxism has influenced this field since the 70's.

But it's always best to go back to source documentation- in this case PM Morrison's thesis- but of course an Honour's Thesis isn't at the same level as a Masters/ PhD.

The point that Morrison's thesis was more "Mathy" explains perhaps his apparently more introspective character. Mathy people tend to be more spurgy- sometimes that's a good thing- Bill Gates for example has been accused of being a bit spurgy.

"Albo not having held an economic portfolio"- standard bitch fight- the truth doesn't matter- just the points- anyone in politics at ministerial level has certain skill sets- doesn't mean they don't have biases and delusions. ScoMo perhaps has better contextual perspicacity.

________

Interesting point on the tax dodges Aiden.
________

The world doesn't have an energy problem- it has an energy storage problem.

It's inevitable that the Fox(y) and friends would "sink the boot in" at any perceived setback- and they'll always try to frame anything as a setback- cognitive dissonance- as they say when you get knocked down you get back up- hopefully the communists won't keep us down forever. George Orwell talked about "a boot on the head of everyone forever". I'm not sure that Foxy and friends will have the heart to take the "kicks to the head" when it's their turn.

__________

The Left obviously have an effective propaganda campaign and electioneering system- that they can take Marxist ideals and repackage them- perhaps not all Marxists are aware- we need to highlight the hypocrisy to the population- we need to understand our enemy for the interest of the people- we have a lot of disinformation to overcome. There are many that don't understand where they get their dinner

The Nazi needs to alert the populace to the dangers of the "communists" taking over.

Potentially actionable ad hominemism.

A communist needs to alert the populace to the dangers of the Nazi's taking over.

In Australia people often use the term "Left" as a
shorthand for the Labor Party and the term "Right"
as a shorthand for the Liberal Party. Center politics
favour moderate positions. People like myself holding
these views are often called "moderates". Political
independents often fall at the center of the political
spectrum.

But we need to
keep in mind that politics is always far more complicated
then the labels we give it - and each other.

Best not to let things get all ... upside down, no?

There's an interesting article by David Spitz in "The
Antioch Review," V. 9 No. 4, 1949 pp. 495-508 (14 pages).
"Why communists are not of the Left."

In which he says - "One of the depressing facts of history
is the tenacity with which some men cling to labels long
after the meaning has changed. The liberalism of John
Stuart Mill is not that of Bertrand Russell. The communism of
Karl Marx is in important respects different from that of Stalin."

"Yet a proclivity of these men for loose thinking and heated
argument leads them to blur the distinction for the sake of
common identification."

"This is bad logic and bad history. It also ensures bad results."

Canem,
Geoinfomatics is seldom maths heavy any more. It used to be, but software products from ESRI (ArcInfo, ArcView, ArcMap and finally ArcGIS) have automated the tasks and made it far easier. Tasks that were once considered PhD worthy (requiring lots of calculations then manual production of graphics with Letrasets) suddenly became doable in an afternoon, and a few people got their degrees really easily before their assessors realised. I think this was shortly before ScoMo got his degree, though I'm not sure as I don't know which ESRI package was the revolutionary one.

Marx was a prominent economist who (despite his own perverse conclusions stemming from his overreliance on the Labour Theory of Value) developed new ways of viewing things which economic geographers would be remiss to ignore.

>The world doesn't have an energy problem
It doesn't just have one energy problem, it has many.

>- it has an energy storage problem.
It has some energy storage problems; solving these is insufficient to solve all the energy problems. But the problems are solvable.

>The Left obviously have an effective propaganda campaign and electioneering system
I think the Right does to a far greater extent. But it is starting to collapse. People have started to see though the lies that the Right are better economic managers. And indeed to see through the claims that small government leads to efficiency rather than false economies, and that the best things the government can do for the economy are to cut taxes and get out of the way.

But very few on the Right still believe the disinformation that the Left are still adoringly following Marx!

Hi Aidan,

As always - Well said!

Aiden's comments on Geoinformatics/ Economic Geography sound very "missing man" to me- most computer modelling requires some level of interpretation- anyway make your own judgement.

As for Marx being a prominent Economist- my understanding is that he's a bit out of the economics main stream- though you'd have to read the three volumes of Das Capital to know (about 3000 dense 7"x10" pages)- and Marx's Rate Of Exploitation seems to be related in some way to the Law of Diminishing Returns- but I'm not an expert. Marx’s Labour Theory of Value is also interesting seemingly assumes that prices are set by communist mystics.

It seems to me that many ideas and propaganda points used on the left are concurrent with those used by the communist diaspora- I remember the poster of Communism used by Mao- with Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao lined up like a Hollywood movie. Trotsky and Herbert Marcuse (Originally Frankfurt school Gay Hebrew Psychologist) perhaps should have been included in this lineup- excuse the pun- even though the history isn't completely linear. I'm sure the Islamic world loves Marcuse new leftism.

http://www.jpost.com//HttpHandlers/ShowImage.ashx?id=337451&w=822&h=537

Thank you dear Stalin for our happy childhood...

http://soviet-art.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Thank-you-dear-Stalin-for-our-happy-childhood-1-300x210.jpg

It's interesting- with respect- that Aiden says in his final point that the Left isn't Marxist yet seems to defend Marxist Economics earlier on

I wonder how our new Foreign Minister will fare in Muslim countries?i

Very good point Is Mise. Penny Wong's negotiations seem to be grist for amusement- life can be interesting in the things it throws up- thanks

Don't forget the Libs had one too. I often wondered if it was to annoy the Muslims & some other cultures.

Of course Wong would annoy anyone.

Canem,
>It's interesting- with respect- that Aiden says in his final point that the Left isn't Marxist
>yet seems to defend Marxist Economics earlier on
Not just defend: attacked and defended in the same sentence!

The reason is simple: I value truth. And the truth is that while other economists had used the Labour Theory of Value as an approximation for calculation convenience, Marx was so overreact on it that his conclusions are of little value (so no need to read Das Kapital) and the mainstream was right to reject them. However his methodology (looking at components of value) is something that economists would do well to heed, regardless of their political positions.

>It seems to me that many ideas and propaganda points used on the left are
>concurrent with those used by the communist diaspora
Of course they are - communists used the ideas of the Left in the propaganda just as anticommunists used the ideas of the Right. But nowadays most people are capable of critical thinking. Can't you see the flaws of trying to establish guilt by association?

Regarding geoinfomatics, interpretation is where the software has made the biggest difference. Where it's necessary to set up modelling, its still likely to be time consuming.

BTW I did study both Urban Economics and Geoinfomatics in the second year of my Civil Engineering degree.

You wont have long to find out, when Penny Wong visits the Worlds largest Muslim country, Indonesia. I suspect she will acquit herself well, being both knowledgeable and articulate. Anyone would be better than a member of Mr Potato Head's mob. Glad there hasn't been any backstabbing in the Coalition after the annihilation last Saturday, nope, its all been front on, no pretence at hiding it.

CM, when are you going to wake up and stopping trying to continue the outdated Cold War fight. The only ones who mention Karl Marx, and Marxism these days are you of the loony right.Get over it, the World has moved on.

Aidan said-

Comment 1-

The reason is simple: I value truth- Marx was so overreact on it that his conclusions are of little value (so no need to read Das Kapital) and the mainstream was right to reject them.

Answer 1-

Existentialist's tend to no objective truth- multiple truths- truth implies propaganda- hopefully you can find those that you can negotiate a peaceful existence with stakeholders acting in good faith.

I prefer to go back to the source material (in this case Das Capital) where I can- so that the meaning isn't obscured by misinterpretation. But at least you admit that Marx "over-reacted".

Comment 2-

>It seems to me that many ideas and propaganda points used on the left are
>concurrent with those used by the communist diaspora
Of course they are - communists used the ideas of the Left in the propaganda just as anticommunists used the ideas of the Right. But nowadays most people are capable of critical thinking. Can't you see the flaws of trying to establish guilt by association?

Answer 2-

When there is a pretty good historical link between Communism and the modern Labor party it seems to be a fair conclusion to say they are essentially the same. Remember the DLP and rejected Anti-Communist Catholics (1955). The founder of the New Left- Herbert Marcuse was a Gay Hebrew Trotskyite Psychologist from the Frankfurt School who lived in the US during the counter culture. Saul Alinsky also a Hebrew Anarcho-Socialist. If I dig into the Labor movement I see Communism everywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterculture_of_the_1960s

"New Left in the 1950s and 1960s led to a revival of interest in libertarian socialism. The New Left's critique of the Old Left's authoritarianism was associated with a strong interest in personal liberty, autonomy and led to a rediscovery of older socialist traditions, such as left communism, council communism, and the Industrial Workers of the World- also led to a revival of anarchism."

When the principles and tactics and ideology of communism are used by the New Left it seems a fair conclusion to say they are essentially the same

Communism is still a problem today and the bodies are still buried in mass graves in Communist countries- though Russia is probably less Communist than it was- are those that hide this truth complicit in the crime?

That's the way I see it- a rose is a rose!

I suppose in Aiden's magnanimous view I am incapable of critical thinking- because I happen to disagree with him.

Comment 3-

Regarding geoinfomatics, interpretation is where the software has made the biggest difference. Where it's necessary to set up modelling, its still likely to be time consuming. BTW I did study both Urban Economics and Geoinfomatics in the second year of my Civil Engineering degree.

Answer 3-

Basically if PM Scott Morrison completed the requirements for an honours degree in Economic Geography I still think that he deserves some extra credit for completing the degree at a high level- over the standard Economics degree- no matter what Aiden's qualifications are.

Scott Morrison when asked about the election result stated
words to the effect that - well people simply want a change.
They wanted to change the curtains.

Actually in this election they did more than change the curtains.
As Nikki Savva pointed out - they bulldozed the house!

As for posts filled with anti-communist alarmism and national
references to "wild-eyed Marxists?" one of the depressing
facts of history is the tenacity with which some people
cling to labels long after the meaning has changed. It's a
proclivity for loose thinking and heated argument that leads
these people to blur the distinction for the sake of common
identification. It is bad logic and bad history. It also
ensures bad results.

( David Spitz - "The Antioch Review").

This is interesting..

http://socialism.com/fso-article/whose-hall-our-hall-trades-hall-council-is-no-place-for-the-police/

"Picture this: You’re in a protest march to Parliament House. As you approach, you see a line of police stretched across the lower steps, waiting for you. They are there, fully armed, to protect and serve the State.

In its service, they go everywhere to defend the rights of property and profit — breaking up union pickets and raiding offices; occupying a public highrise that houses refugees; storming an LGBTIQ bookshop and savagely assaulting an occupant; disproportionately incarcerating Aboriginal people and killing them; charging anti-fascist protesters while high fiving the fash; pepper spraying climate activists. And on it goes.

This is why a call has gone out to Victorian Trades Hall Council (VTHC) to disaffiliate the Victorian Police Association. Unionists in the Freedom Socialist Party and Radical Women decided now is the time and proposed action to the Indigenous Social Justice Association (ISJA), who agreed. ISJA unionists wrote an open letter to the VTHC executive. The Aboriginal and refugee movements embraced the demand, as did other unionists. And it’s gaining steam.

Cops do not belong in the union movement, because they’re not workers. They are armed agents of capital, acting as bosses’ henchmen and maintainers of the white, straight, male supremacist status quo. This is made evermore clear with each increase in their budget, powers and military arsenal — all for use against the exploited and oppressed. No amount of community-friendly camouflage, such as Australian Federal Police roaming our neighbourhoods in the guise of health protection, can hide this. "

I don't know why Aiden continues to rabbit on about Geoinformatics as it has as much relation to Economic geography as astrology does to astronomy.

Morrison got an advanced degree in economics and ran several high jobs that required business acumen. Dutton got a business degree and ran his own business making a fortune of $300m.

Albozo was a bank teller, then did a basic Economics degree before working as a low-level Labor gopher never using his degree.

The contrast is dramatic.

This is also interesting.

Just to clarify a few points made by Canem Malum:

The Parliament of Australia gives us the
stats of the trends in union membership telling us that
the number of union members in Australia has been
falling steadily over the past four decades.

The stats
were taken as of 15 Oct 2018 and it is interesting to
note that the biggest increases over the last
decade and a half were recorded by the Police Federation of
Australia ( PFA) up 92%. The Australian Nursing and Midwifery
Federation (ANMF) up 84% and the Independent Education
Union of Australia - EUP - up 35%.

shadowminister,

Scott Morrison explained that the results of this
last election were because Australians simply wanted
a change. That - they simply wanted to change the curtains.

Well, as Niki Savva stated. They did more than just change
the curtains. They bulldozed the house - taking Scott
Morrison and his "qualifications" with them.

shadowminister,

The contrast is indeed dramatic!

This election was a tale of community strength
and spirit!

Get over it shadowminister!

Dutton joined the coppers as Constable Dutton, 10 years later he left as Senior Constable Dutton, it says it all. They threw him a bone in the form of a $10/week pay rise. I think he was writing traffic tickets and booking jaywalkers at the time of his departure.

Pauliar,

Once again you to post bullsh!t. I would like to see your link to this.

Dutton was in the police for 9 years and reached the rank of Detective senior constable which is a pretty standard promotion rate. Dutton resigned from the force at the same time as his Business started taking off, and in short order got a business degree and built a business empire.

By comparison Lard arse Hanson Young has zero qualifications and like Albozo never progressed past bank teller.

Pauliar,

Meant to say; Once again you post bullsh!t.

Definition of suspicion?

BS in a cow's yard.

____________________________________________________________________

In Portugese - Trumpa - means BS.