Before the last election the Coalition led by Scott Morrison promised Australians a Federal integrity Commision to investigate corruption within government. What have we got from the Coalition, 'Sports Rorts', 'Carpark Rorts' these and other pork barreling allegations. We have got harassment and bullying claims, even allegations of rape. We've got Christian Porter, Barnaby Joyce and Alan Tudge to name but three. What we haven't got is a Federal Integrity Commision. Why? Has the Coalition too many skeletons in the closet, skeletons that would be uncovered by a Federal I.C.A.C with real teeth, not the powder puff Clayton's commision that Morrison expects Australians to swallow.

Paul1405,
You of all people pushing for such an inquiry ?

Hi Paul,

Scott Morrison did promise this commission in 2018.
He has now explained that the commission failed to
eventuate because Labor did not support it.

Anthony Albanese vows to create a federal ICAC by
the end of 2022 if Labor wins the election.

All integrity commissions are not equal.
Unfortunately the government's initial proposal
was apparently light on both power and resources and
was unlikely to weed out corruption and serious
misconduct. Hence Labor did not support it.

It had limits on who could report corruption. Limits on
the investigation to criminal offences. And the
findings may have remained secret.

It will be interesting to see - should Labor win the election
how their proposal will differ from the Coalition's initial
one and whether this time the Coalition will support it.

individual,

You're retired right?

So don't worry about it.

You're retired right?
Foxy,
I'm also tired of so much time, resources & harmony being sacrificed for what ? For some ideology that perpetually fails the integrity test ?
I might be having myself on but I'm still hoping the Woke me me mentality becoming something to be ashamed of !

Pauliar,

With you as a consistent liar and fraud as a representative of a party with a history of convicted paedophiles, a rabidly homophobic councillor and a bully of an MP Shoebridge are the last person to lecture anyone on integrity.

The ICAC proposed by Morrison has more power than Victoria's IBAC and the only reason Labor opposed it is because they want something to throw at Morrison.

I bet that if Albozo gets in the last thing Labor wants is someone that will hold their feet to the fire.

Paul writes: "We have got harassment and bullying claims, even allegations of rape. "

So I guess Paul is relieved that the last Labor leader (Shorten) failed to win, given the rape allegations against him.

Every opposition promises some sort of integrity commission, but, when in government they suddenly realise that they will be the first targets of the commission, and their enthusiasm wanes. T'was always thus.

What a sick joke. A Green bringing up integrity!

If people really care about an ICAC, they can vote Labor. They don't have to worry about what the Coalition hasn't done. Albo has promised one!

But, I do not think that the average voter cares about it. They don't care about what does not affect them. On a scale of 1-10, corruption would get a 10.

Have a look at SA to see how ICAC works

A further look into this issue reveals/reminds that the Coalition put up a 300 page proposal for an ICAC, which Green Labor REJECTED, their own effort now covering 2 pages!

If we get a Green Labor/Voices Of, government, we will be faced with a Kangaroo Court scouring the land, looking for non-Leftists to burn at the stake. There is no guarantee that the people working to stamp out corruption are not themselves corrupt.

That's why we need an integrity Commission that is
not light on both powers and resources and is going
to weed out corruption and serious misconduct.
Who won't limit as to who can report corruption.
Who won't limit investigations to criminal offences.
And whose findings will not remain secret.

The zoo-keeper was very disappointed - all his animals failed their test!

He placed nice and peaceful lambs, rabbits and possums in the cages of the wolves, lions and tigers, then lo and behold, the next day all he found of them were bones.

So sad!

But was this abysmal failure unexpected? Wolves, lions and tigers do what wolves, lions and tigers do, just as politicians do what politicians do. If you try changing their spots, then no zoo will be left!

What reason, Foxy? You don't say what reason.

ttbn,

Both Obeid and Berejiklian were brought before the NSW ICAC whilst their parties were in government.

You're right the NSW ICAC prosecuted your right hand man Eddie Obeid, and that other right wing good guy Ian Macdonald.

Last time I checked ScumO' had the numbers in the lower house, and with cross bench support, had the numbers in the Senate. That toothless proposal the Coalition put up was designed to fail. Morrison has no interest in a Federal ICAC, the conga line of Coalition Ministers and MP's lining up to "confess their sins" would stretch halfway to Sydney.

You have your opinion of Greens integrity, it stacks up well against Hanson, Palmer and Leyonhjelm, the people you now support. Oh! I forgot your folk hero and pin up boy Corny Banana. His personal expenses, the spending of party funds was astronomical at the last election, doing it tough in five star hotels, munching on caviar and drinking champagne. Did he ever give your membership money and donation back, nah.... there's a sucker born every minute.

ttbn,

You surprised me by pointing out that I hadn't given
reasons for an integrity commission. I didn't think
it was necessary.

However I'll quote just a little from the link I give below
that's worth a read:

"Integrity under pins every promise made by everyone
vying for government. It's what makes sure the investments
in jobs actually end up creating jobs, or the grants being
given for the re-building after floods do go where they are
needed, not diverted into private pockets or spent buying
votes for the sake of votes."

"It's what generates national security - look at how the
looting of public money from the people of Russia has built
a regime so corrupt it's destabilising the world as we
know it."

There's more at:

http://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/15/scott-morrison-refuses-to-budge-on-a-federal-icac-but-the-dam-of-reality-will-have-to-burst

Foxy

Well, l said "There is no guarantee that the people working to stamp out corruption are not themselves corrupt", and you said that that is why we need an integrity commission. A bit strange, surely? If we can't be sure that those doing the investigating are not also corrupt, how can that be a reason for having it? There might very well be a reason for it, but who can we trust?

Politicians are like lying car salesmen.
Expecting integrity out of any of them is wishful thinking.

Morrison has generally been a failure in my opinion.
But replacing him with Albanese wont make things any better.
That guys about as clueless as Mr. Magoo.

If Scomo's a failure then Albanese is an accident just waiting to happen.

ttbn,

On an integrity commission they can't ALL be corrupt.
And that's a risk we should want to be able to take.
It's like any committee - you take the good with the
bad. The same applies in politics. Usually it does
work out. We don't have any other option and doing
nothing is certainly not an option. Then you allow
the bad guys to win.

Come on Foxy.
In all these commissions the members are drawn from academia, probably the most corrupt group on the planet, the legal profession, liars for hire, or ex politicians needing a job.

All of them make used car sales men look like the most upright pillars of society.

Hasbeen,

Let me see if I understand what you're saying.
All of academia is corrupt, and people who make
up these commissions are all corrupt? I guess
then you are against having an integrity commission?

Do nothing be happy?

Okkkay.

A politician could make the biggest blunders in our nations history,
killing countless people with bad policies and never have to be held accountable for it.

From what I can see the thing that might damage politicians the most,
The thing they have to be frightened of more then anything... is
- sexual harassment claims -

Dear Foxy,

«We don't have any other option and doing
nothing is certainly not an option. Then you allow
the bad guys to win.»

OK, so you want to do something - but what?

Replacing some bad guys with others makes no difference - the bad guys would still be winning.
Unless you know a way to eliminate them all (I don't), what's the point?

If anything, I think it's even slightly better to have your enemies corrupt: a corrupt enemy tends to be a weaker one. Politicians are by definition there to do evil - to dictate their policies, forcing them down the throats of others, innocent ordinary people. But when one is a politician by name only, when they are not really interested in policies, when instead their true motive is just to fill up their pockets, then they are probably not as dangerous as the true politicians...

Foxy,

If integrity is such an important issue for the left then why the complete silence when Rudd almost immediately broke every promise and when Juliar never kept one of hers?

It appears that integrity is not necessary for Labor or the Greens

The best politicians' hands are bound with the kind of voters we have !

Gentlemen,

Despite all your protestations against an integrity
commission I am sure that one will be appointed
sooner than later. And we shall have to wait and
see whether it achieves anything or not. I'm
sure that this will be a promise that will be kept
this time - no matter who gets into government.
Because a commission is needed

Integrity underpins every promise made by everyone
vying for government. It makes sure the investments
in jobs actually end up creating jobs. And the
grants being given for a building after floods or
bushfires do go where they are needed, not diverted
into private pockets or spent buying votes for the
sake of votes.

Those of you who can't understand this - well there's
nothing further that can be said to you. "Pearls
before swine..." and all that.

Foxy, just so long as the model is not NSW's ICAC !
It makes its own evidence rules and denies justice.

That terrible NSW ICAC, poor Eddie, Moses and Ian were denied justice, please set them free. Maybe Bazz believes only his side of politics can do no wrong, like Gladys and Daryl.

Foxy,

What you haven't done is provide a justification as to why Morrison's proposal for a Federal ICAC was not sufficient.

Just recall the serious abuse of process by NSW ICAC with Margaret Cunneen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Cunneen

Any federal ICAC needs sufficient powers to pursue their investigations without ruining reputations on the basis of rumour or hearsay. i.e. something between Victoria's relatively toothless IBAC and NSW's ICAC. The judgements of ICAC should also be subject to review by an appellate court.

Secondly, any ICAC can only make judgements where the law is broken not broken promises or dubious morals.

Dear Foxy,

What do you mean by "integrity"?

Suppose someone promises you to cut your throat, will an integrity commission give them the tick if they follow through with their promise?

In your church, if someone jumps into the pool of holy water still holding the priest's corpse which they just strangled, are they considered baptised and their sins forgiven?

A politician is a politician, nothing can change that, they are all evil and it is impossible for anyone, whether or not they divert money into private pockets or vote-buying, to be a politician AND have any integrity!

shadowminister,

The government's initial proposal was light on
both power and resources as I stated on page 1
of this discussion and it was unlikely to weed out
corruption and any serious misconduct. It had
limits on who could report corruption. Limits on
the investigation to criminal offences and the
findings may have remained secret. That's why
Labor did not approve it.

This is interesting-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire#The_Seven_Stages_of_Empire

Glubb noted that in all these example, the penultimate age was marked by defensiveness, pessimism, materialism, frivolity, an influx of foreigners, the Welfare State, and a weakening of religion. He attributed this decadence to an excessively long period of wealth and power, selfishness, love of money, and the loss of a sense of duty

Foxy,

You have simply echoed the Labor excuses.

For example, what do YOU mean by The government's initial proposal was light on both power and resources? I bet you don't have a clue.

The proposal had the full capability to subpoena people and question them. No ICAC can prosecute crimes only recommend prosecution. This one is no different.

The rejection by Labor was not on merit but just a political stunt.

shadowminister,

No I am not simply echoing Labor's excuses.
Blaming Labor is what the Coalition is doing.
However -
The web is full of information on this subject. It's
not that difficult to find.

The Centre for Public Integrity found that the Morrison
government's proposed agency would be "the weakest
integrity commission in the country, "leaving a raft
of political scandals relating to the abuse of public office
free from scrutiny."

For example you can't have a public sector division
covering parliamentarians and bureaucrats that would have
no power to exercise search warrants, hold public hearings
or even make public - findings of corruption, criminal
conduct or "misconduct at large."

There's more at:

http://smh.com.au/national/fact-check-what-did-morrison-say-about-a-federal-icac-20220415-p5adq9.html

One of many links on the web.

Foxy,

Did you read the reference to Margaret Cunneen where a senior barrister was publicly accused of corruption, had her house searched and her phone and laptop confiscated with absolutely zero evidence by NSW ICAC?

It is perfectly possible for an ICAC to do its job with the significant powers allocated under Morrison's plan using the federal police and the judiciary to execute search warrants etc. What is not possible is to do any of these things without a threshold of evidence.

And by the way, the proposal is not very different to the bodies in Victoria and SA.

shonky,

Like in SA will we see a conga line of corrupt Liberals marching out the door? It could be headed by Cry Baby Porter, Barnyard Joy and Touchy Tudge, of course they are plenty more to join in, Upskirter, Desk Blower, the list goes. What do I see at the back of the line, its ScumO' (where are Jan and the girls?) wiggling his hips, and waving his hands, singing HALLELUJAH!

Pauliar,

There have already been 2 senior greens convicted of paedophilia, one Green councillor facing homophobic assault charges so there is no integrity there. Perhaps will see a conga line of pedogreens before the future ICAC.

One commentator has suggested that the criticism of the government for not introducing an ICAC is not about the refusal to have one (they did release a proposal in 2020), but about the government refusing to have one that Labor and the Greens want.

Labor and their very close associates, the Greens, want the same as the NSW ICAC, a kangaroo court that the High Court found had acted illegally.

The objectors and their disciples in the hoi polloi among Guardian readers will never vote for the Coalition, so it is not something the government needs to worry about. ("All the wrong reasons for a federal integrity commission", Ken Phillips, 19/4/22).

The entire issue has become politicized.
There's plenty of material on the web
regarding this issue. Looking at more than
just one source helps clarify matters. The Centre
for Public Integrity found the proposed agency by the
government would be "the weakest integrity commission
in the country," leaving a raft of political scandals
relating to abuse free from scrutiny.

The limitations placed on the commission by the government's
proposal covering parliamentarians and bureaucrats would
have prevented the commission from doing its job.
The commission would have had no power to exercise
search warrants, hold public hearings, or even make
public findings of corruption, criminal conduct, or even
any "misconduct at large."

Poor show all round.

Hi Foxy, Morrisons ICAC>

I think the Morrison ICAC was going to be like the Catholic Confessional, all very forgiving.

In goes Cry Baby and Barnyard,

Cry Baby; Forgive me Commissioner, for I have sinned.
Comm; What have you done my Cabinet Minister?
Cry Baby; "I have been a very naughty boy with the girls.
Comm; Go pray at the altar of St Scotty, he'll may let you back in.

From the other Side,

Barnyard; Ah! Commissioner I did the same thing, but St Scotty has already let me back in, cop that!
Comm; Is there anymore of you Coalition blokes out there?
Barnyard; Yeah! About 27 of us, Upskirter, you're next.

Pauliar,

Do you have your crybaby Green paedophiles there too?

shadowminister,

Right on cue.

Foxy,

Glass houses..

shadowminister,

Glass houses?

Your windows need washing all the time.

Watching ABC at Noon right now, it's appalling how the GayBC are trying to discredit the PM.
The GayBC journos haven't even got the decency & even less integrity to show the biased gits who are asking the questions !

Before getting too enthusiastic about a federal ICAC, some of you might like to Google 'So, you want a federal corruption watchdog'. An article written by Andrew L. Urban will come up at the top the page.

ttbn,

Thanks for that.

I enjoyed his series on SBS - "Front Up."
Very moving.

As for the federal ICAC?

I stand by my opinion.

Mr Urban of course is entitled to his.

Morrison failed the pub test as well.

Wholesale price of electricity up 141% under MORRISON.

Bread And butter inflation!

Supermarket prices up 25%.
Petrol up 20%.
Rents up 20%.
Morrison's pay up 30%

The only nett zero commitment Morrison has made is a nett zero increase in real workers wages, a stated Coalition policy!

So people want the Feds to get tough on crime. ttbn might have something against that idea. Al Capone wrote a very nice opinion piece on the reasons there is no need for crime busting, just Google the Alcatraz Gazette its all in there.