It is not at all surprising that the Coalition looks like running on defence and security this election.

In the past, the Coalition could have run on its superior economic management, but mismanagement equal to Labor’s, if not worse, has occurred under the Morrison government. And, the government is not a lot different from Labor in most things.

While Labor talks about bipartisanship, and it might well be sincere, some worrying reminders are coming up.

In a 2019 speech in Beijing, Labor’s Richard Marles spoke of Australia's "deeply valued" relationship with China, and how we "must seek to build it", not just in economic terms, but also by "exploring political cooperation" and - wait for it - "DEFENCE cooperation"!

Then there is Kristina Keneally's dealings with United Front, one of the CCP's propaganda arms pushing for the takeover of Taiwan.

And there is Albanese, the most 'leftist' leader yet after Whitlam who thinks it is 'humane' to open the borders to illegal arrivals.

Just three worrying things from Labor’s history. It will be interesting to see what else the Coalition digs up that voters might have forgotten.

*…It will be interesting to see what else the Coalition digs up that voters might have forgotten…*

The memory of Julia “Stupid” Gillard, would be enough to turn me off Labor for eternity.

Dan

diver dan,
I have memories of the Goaf, Keatinge, Rudd & Gillard !

The conservative Old Fart does not want to mention Liberal Minister Andrew Robb and his part in the lease of 'The Port of Darwin' by the LNP, approved by Robb to a CCP associated company. Won't mention the reward Robb received from the CCP when he left parliament. Don't forget Tony Abbott and his cozy relationship with China.

"In 2015 the Northern Territory (LNP) Government announced Chinese company Landbridge had been awarded a 99-year lease of Darwin port in a $500 million deal."

In 2016 Robb was employed by the CCP aligned Landbridge, the company he had previously approved to lease for 99 years 'The Port of Darwin' on a fat reward of $880,000 a year. Labor can't match that basterd.

Individual,

Gillard started off a clown and by the end of her time, Australians had become her three ring Circus.
Ive never been so traumatised by a politicians “stupid” before or since.

We should never have women in any leadership capacity in Politics especially.
Look at Margaret Thatcher for example: a full blown psychopath who’s career calling was actually a prison guard, except she took a right turn at Sunday school and walked away from all semblance of humanity and any empathy towards people.
Hers was a world with no people in it, only herself. The whole of her political career was one of “pay-back”!

I go along with Aristotle on this one: He believed that a woman’s virtue is naturally inferior to male virtue, and he believed the best a woman can be, never matches the best a man can be.
Should we forgive stupid Julia for just being a woman on the strength of a mans opinion from two thousand years ago individual? No No No. unforgivable!

Dan

Past politicians are irrelevant to this election.

Adding his ha'penny worth to comments on Ukraine tonight, Morrison declared a Russian invasion to be "imminent" and said that no Australian troops will be involved.

So, we won't be following the US, which raises the question of Taiwan. Xi will be watching the Russo/Ukraine situation with great interest. What, if anything, the US does about Ukraine will help him decide what he can do about Taiwan. Also of interest to him will be if Australia will decline to join the US there as well. If we don't, could he decide that he needs to 'protect' the 1.2 million ethnic Chinese living here, as Putin feels the need to protect ethnic Russians in Ukraine.

Our politicians on both sides have landed us in the poo with multiculturalism and, in particular, Chinese immigration.

The ALP seems to think that climate change is the biggest thing to go to the election with. Not so Australian voters, who think that China is the biggest threat. According to the Lowy Institute:

93% of them have an unfavourable view of China's army in the region,

92% of them have an unfavourable view of China's system of government, and

79% of them have an unfavourable view of China's investment in Australia.

So far, Albanese, Marles and Keneally have not rescinded the 'closer ties with China' mantra - one even jabbering about political and defence ties. They need to come clean; or, perhaps they still think that way.

Time for a vastly expanded army.
Peace through strength, or put another way, “If you would have peace, prepare for war.”

There is plenty of video out there of Morrison claiming that the ALP would be a poorer trading partner with China than his government and that we would be crazy to turn down the financial benefits that China offers Australia.

I always suspected that security and China were always going to be Morrison's preferred election platform because he has no real record of positive achievements to fall back on so he will soon be desperately trying to open up a new front to distract.

It's always about fear but I think things may get even worse for him in the weeks ahead.

It was like this for Howard when he knew his time was up and the desperate pre-election spending of the announced final surplus didn't work.

The ADF has revealed a Chinese warship sailing in our economic zone waters has fired a military grade laser at a RAAF aircraft monitoring it. The event, occurring on Thursday, has been called a serious situation by the defence minister.

Nothing heard from Labor yet.

Ttbn.

*…Past politicians are irrelevant to this election…*

If you think this one out, you’ll begin to see a significance to past leaders of political parties which gives the party an identity narrative.

The public perception of a particular party is very much tied to leadership which of course follows the narrative over a historic past.

The narrative identity is an imperative to study, and will switch and change perceptions in voters minds (swinging voter).
Too much of a negative narrative projected onto leadership buries the positive influences of progressive gains in the disinterested individual voter.

It’s all about perception, as the normally ambivalent majority follow a perception of a party very much built on the narrative inclusive of past leadership.

Your constantly guilty of the same motivation as I read your posts.

Dan

ASIO and former security chiefs have warned that the
Prime Minster's blaming the Opposition in being "soft"
on China is not helpful and it should stop.

It appears that this is a political ploy that the government
is going to use to gain support and votes in the upcoming
election. That's a dangerous game to play and China will
be the only winner. It will create division amongst the
voters, especially Chinese voters - and it's a rather shabby
way to try and win an election. The Coalition needs to lift
its game and not stoop to these sort of tactics.

ASIO and former security chiefs
Foxy,
well, yes they would say that because of their now former status. Axe to grind stuff, that's all.
Just watched that ABC programme hosted by chief git Dave Spears. I can't recall watching a more biased meeting at the taxpayers expense against the people who feed the ABC. I don't think the Coalition could ever go bad enough for me to ever support Labor again. Spears almost forgot to breathe whenever he sensed an opportunity to degrade Morrison. That welding video clip is flogged to no end. Big deal touching the steel with the electrode before lowering the shield. There isn't a professional welder who hasn't done that many times.
Such lack of integrity & the latching onto laughable opportunism makes ISIS look like a Church group. Make the ABC organise its funding by those they support !

Iindividual,
Been welding for at least 75 years and have done what Morrison did mmany, many times; it’s an occupational hazard !!.

individual,

Thank you for your interest in this country's
national security.

Mike Burgess, the current director of ASIO
(boss of Australia's spy agency) gave a rare
interview in which he stated that it was "not helpful"
to politicise national security, amid the increasing
attacks from the Coalition against Labor over China.

Mr Burgess was at pains to point out that foreign
interference targets ALL members of parliament
regardless of their political party. Political parties
need to stick together and not weaponize politics to
score brownie points prior to an election.

Voters will not appreciate these tactics.

an occupational hazard !!

Is Mise,
Exactly ! It takes an academic background prize git with a massive lack of integrity to use such a video clip the way the ABC condones it to be used ! I bet Spears wouldn't even have known what happened there with that welder, but as soon as someone told him he just jumped at it.

"not helpful" to politicise national security,
Foxy,
Agreed wholeheartedly. Tell these moron opportunists who are hell-bent on sabotaging the efforts of the Govt to manage the Nation despite these home-grown anarchists !

individual,

ASIO being apolitical is trying to do just that by
warning the Coalition of its weaponizing and politicizing
national security. It needs to stop.

As for the Prime Minster's "on the tools" welding video?
That clip has gone viral over his crucial mistake.

Sky News, YouTube, Channel 9, Channel 7, Twitter, Reddit,
Yahoo, Daily Mail, and the list goes on - have all
shown it with great glee. You could have watched it anywhere
not only on the ABC.

Dan,

Yes. But we the latest bunch of politicians don't necessarily follow the long-gone; and it is only the current crop we can deal with.

Foxy,

As I said: the "ploy" is one of the few differences between the two parties available to the government. It's up to Labor to show that the accusation is wrong - if it is. And, there will always be division amongst voters, or there would be no need for elections. As for what China thinks, the CCP already thinks that they would be better off with a Labor government. Again, it is up to Labor to prove that this would not be the case if they did win the election. It needs proving to us voters, too. As we see from comments made, some people don't believe that there is bipartisanship on national defence. This could be because of what some Labor politicians have said in the past. Anthony Albanese really has to do more than he has so far to convince sceptics that he would be as firm as Morrison is on China and defence.

ttbn,

I agree that Labor has to do more to prove their credentials.
Actions speak louder than words of course. However, I think
the Coalition's attempt to politicise our national security
is a desperate attempt at getting the voters attention off
our other priorities such as their handling of COVID, the
economy, and the list goes on.

Both parties need to lift their game.

Are you suggesting Foxy, that Labor would have allowed us access to Activation. Actually with the states doing most of the handling of the response to Covid19, it is as much a Labor failing as a LNP failing.

I will of course never forgive any of them for pushing the so called vaccine, which has proven much less effective than promised & actually dangerous to many.

I don't suppose these actions bu the majors will make much real difference ti the house of reps, but I expect the senate may have a very different complexion. We could become like France, damn near ungovernable.

Was it me, or some hidden internet police.

How the hell did Ivermectin become Activation, even I don't spell that badly

Hasbeen,

ttbn has hit the nail on the head when he's posted
many times on this forum that people are disappointed
with the major parties and politicians in general.
Many are looking at Independents and alternative
solutions.

We are in a bit of a mess all round at the moment.
Frankly I'm not at all sure who I support anymore.

Foxy,
So the PM’s little dab at welding was crucial?
“…a crucial mistake”.
Suggest that you invest in a dictionary.

Words have meanings far beyond the dictionary
definition.

The PM's video went viral. However making
mistakes and learning from them is crucial
to winning.

Foxy,
That’s better, you got it right this time, good girl.

This is the kind of pedantic nonsense
up with which I will not put!

If there's one thing I can't stand it's
nit-picking pedantry.

That's two things.

Issy,

The pot calling the kettle black. You make as many spelling and grammar mistakes as the rest of us, be kind. As for Scotty from Marketing welding, the fool should weld his mouth shut, and be done with it.

The Chinese absolutely love this bunch of clowns in Canberra. Who can forget when Simon the Glove Puppet had to admit the Chinese couldn't be bothered taking his calls.

Nock, nock, "You hu... anyone home...its Simon the Avon Lady calling."

"Fong, whose's at door?"

"Its that dim sum from Australia again!"

"Tell him we're not home"

"WE'RE NOT HOME...PISS OFF! and D.C.B"

"Scotty, Scotty I've been told to PO again." bo ho, bo ho sob, sob.

I warned you all ages ago, I’m a pedant.

Issy, a pedant can also be a boring nucense. People in glass houses.....

I'm yet to figure out precisely what Morrison can do to "protect" us from this looming China threat.

I know he's tried welding, washing hair and playing the ukulele but he also provoked the current trade war and diplomacy is definitely not one of his skills and that's what has put us in this position in the first place.

His party leased Darwin port and the Newcastle coal loader to them and has sold more land to Chinese interests than any previous government so it's a bit late to be talking tough apart from echoing US interests.

Defence-wise our submarines are decades away and the new tanks are useless unless we're fighting a local land battle. (The previous ones we bought were too heavy for the bridges in Iraq and Afghanistan). Otherwise they are just slow-moving targets from the air.

All he can reasonably do is to withhold iron-ore sales but that's unlikely so what has he got to offer, apart from talking the talk?

How can he even back down from the position he has created for himself and restore reasonable relations?

What do the million-plus citizens/voters of Chinese heritage think, especially those who are experiencing the personal attacks once reserved for Muslims?

What Foxy says is a misrepresentation.

Mike Burgess of ASIO never warned against politicising security, just that ASIO would remain apolitical.

That Labor has ties to China and continues to barrack for China is not helping. Albo blaming Morrison for China's sanctions is a case in point.

China's increasingly aggressive posture has annoyed most Australians and the Labor party needs to change its rhetoric otherwise it will continue to be vulnerable to security issues.

Australia spends more as a percentage of GDP 2.1%, on militarism than China 1.7%. Far less than the most belligerent power on earth, United States 3.7%. Then there is the totalitarian crack-a-jack mob, the Sardines with over 8% of GDP on attack spending.

the Coalition's attempt to politicise our national security
Foxy,
What you call politicising I' call trying to make the voters think for the Nation for a change !

The NT government leased their port to China. Given our shitshow Federation, the federal government couldn't do a thing about it. But, I have to say we should all be embarrassed by Morrison’s barging into workplaces and insulting tradespeople and workers. Having the media following him around doing silly things, reveals him as a bull in a china shop.

While this nonsense is going on, China has committed it's first act of military aggression. It was 'only' a laser? Well, it's not the sort a kid points at someone; it's a military weapon capable of blinding a pilot and interrupting a plane's equipment.

It's time to consider the possibility of a shooting war with China. The CCP ignores international law, conventions and the niceties of civilised behaviour. Given some of the comments here, it won't just be Chinese who will have to be rounded up in the event of war.

“China must understand that such actions will only engender further mistrust” (Penny Wong.

Could we mistrust China any more than we already do. Who ever trusted China - ever! People with their heads in the sand that's who. I doubt that Australians would have woken up if the laser had been a missile.

ttbn,

Well said.

Thank you.

Well said.
Foxy,
Ditto !

ttbn and supporters,
Time to consider a shooting war with China?

One thing, it’d be over quickly and after we got used to the new regime we could enjoy totalitarian bliss, as long as we never complained.

China has more troops having a beer in their local bars at the moment than we have soldiers.

On the face of it, we wouldn’t have much luck. But our troops have had practice here and there with the US and other allies in Korea, Vietnam , Afghanistan, Iraq since the last war.

What wars has China fought recently? They are pretty good at killing their own citizens, oppressing Uighurs and Tibetans and acting like school bullies - all mouth and trousers. They don't have the right qualifications to deal with people who fight back.

Another thing not in their favour is the one-child policy, which has seen a lot of Grandmas spoilt 'little emperors' poncing about in uniforms shouting, "Chairman, Chairman". Whether or not they have any fight in hasn't yet been demonstrated.

Hi Issy

"Time to consider a shooting war with China?"

Who in their (extreme) right mind would
suggest that. Only the crazy Old Farts on this Forum. They live in a fantasy world of yesteryear, I'm sure some of them imagine they charged up San Juan Hill with Teddy Roosevelt.

ttbn,
The Chinese fought in Korea, that’s why there is such a place as North Korea.
They also fought India to a settlement favouring China.
The Chinese are good soldiers and even if they weren’t their sheer numbers would be overwhelming; at one battle in Korea for a narrow pass the American’s had to fall back because they could not elevate their machine guns high enough to shoot over the wall of Chinese dead from which live Chinese were firing down on them.

Our troops are among the best in the World but quality in small numbers will be overwhelmed by mediocrity in huge numbers, and the Chinese soldier is not mediocre.

OK, Is Mise. You be a defeatist. You have already said you "could enjoy totalitarian bliss". As I said, we would have to lock up more people other than Chinese, and you might never get out.

The man from the far right shows his true colours, lock em' up! Its WAR! Crazy as a cut snake. After one political failure I'm sure he's found a new home in One Nation.

ttbn,
Sarcasm is wasted apparently.

So you tell us how hopelessly underarmed Australia could defeat China.

We wait with bated breath.

While it indeed was the NT government that leased Darwin port somehow it got past both the Defence Department and the Foreign Investment Review Board because both Federal department admittedly "stuffed up".

However, issuing a contract for a Chinese-owned IT company (Global Switch) to store our Defence data (as well as ASIC and the ATO) was another stuff-up that is seldom mentioned and will now cost the taxpayer an additional $200million to migrate Defense files elsewhere over the next 5 years.

I find it hard to imagine that in 2022 we'll be fighting the Chinese hand-to-hand Infantry-style on our soil or theirs.

Politicians talking tough and making threats is no replacement for diplomacy. The story that JFK stared down the Soviets over the Cuban Missile Crisis is a media myth and the real action was happening behind closed doors by diplomats. As the Russians sailed away, the Americans immediately began disassembling their new Turkish missile bases that started the whole affair in the first place.
I'm guessing that if there was no election pending or any need to kow-tow to the USA, Morrison would be desperately trying to mend bridges.

Hi Issy,

The Old Fart Fuhrer has no place for sarcasm in his new world order. YOU ARE SUSPECT! Lucky you, you are only getting locked up in the Hermann Goring camp for waywould boys and girls, as for the likes of me, now that's a different John dory!

You have nothing to worry about. Once my Seniors National Service is up and running, defence will not be a problem. There will be no defence, it will be all out attack! The OLO Platoon commanded by Admiral Bligewater and General Brassbottom will launch a frontal assult on the all you can eat $20/head lunchtime buffet at the Golden Dragon Chinese Restaurant in Parramatta. Once our brave troops have captured the Chinese buffet, and consumed its contents they will move on to Chongs Chinese Laundry where they will wash and dry their food stained uniforms. ARE you on board?

Rache,

You make a lot of claims - even make judgements on JFK and the missile crisis! - 60 years ago, when you would have been under 10 years old (you have revealed that you are in your late 60s) but you don't back up the claims. You could read about these things, but we will never know because you just make bald statements.

Is Mise,

Don't hold your breath. Don't give me the 'sarcasm' crap. You mean what you say, and you can't bear to be wrong. I don’t believe that there are many Australians like you ready to cower under the China bully. Frightened by the big military parades on TV, are you? Never noticed that we in the West don't feel the need to go in for dick flashing? The last Western country to parade up big was Nazi Germany; and look what happened to them! It's a Commo thing these days.

You need to try to believe in something.

ttbn,
How would you fight China?
It’s a simple question and I’m sure that you can answer it, so don’t keep.us in suspense; our very future may depend on your wisdom.

"How would you fight China?"

That's a job for the professionals.

The biggest 'battle' for the Liberals is among themselves, over pre-elections in NSW, where most of the political silliness abounds. Looks like the "openly gay" Zimmerman is one of those in somebody's sights, along with underwhelming (to be kind) Susan Ley. Another opportunity for Labor to chant the old mantra about not being able to run the country if you can't run yourselves.

That's a job for the professionals.
ttbn,
We'll have to order them from China like everything else !

ttbn,
Of course it’s a job for the professionals, trouble is, there aren’t enough professionals
Having once been a professional and having acquired some knowledge of Chinese soldiery, I feel sorry for our present day professionals when there are idiots proposing a fight with China and who can’t give an opinion on how the fight should be conducted..

Seems some people would sacrifice our soldiers in a hopeless fight just for the sake of reading their own writing.

Gung Ho!!

We will not be able to defend ourselves against anyone, even a quarter of the size of China, until our coast north of the latitude of Brisbane is bristling with nuclear armed cruise & ballistic missiles.

Our current & projected subs, frigates & patrol boats could not even carry enough weapons to do much damage to a serious invasion force, let alone stop one.

We need to start treating the fighting men we do have a whole lot better than we do at the moment if we want to have any.

Perhaps we could start by no longer wasting defense budget on sex change operations for our fighting MEN.

Comrade Is Mise,

We don't often agree on matters military, but in this case you have a decent understanding of Australia's capability.

Hasbeen is the same bloke who once claimed on this Forum that Pakistan should be attacked with nuclear weapons, in some bizarre preemptive strike, on the basis of "get them before they get us", killing upwards of 200 million innocent people. I know he's harmless, probably thought that one up while feeding the chooks. But the mentality of someone who says that sort of thing.

None of us are under any obligation to respond.
And yet we do.

Ooooops. Sorry wrong thread.

Is Mise would be even smugger if he had heard Greg Sheridan say tonight that our defence depends entirely on America, then a short while later Jim Molan advising that America would lose a war with China. We all might as well go to bed and stay there if we are we have only people whom I'm starting to think are insane doing the talking.

tbbn,

It's called History you clown.

There are things called facts out there if you care to look them up rather than live in some sort of delusional social-media haze stoked by self-interest, ignorance and prejudice.

I wasn't "passing judgement" on Kennedy personally but pointing out the relative importance of diplomacy over chest-thumping and sabre-rattling which may play well to the congregation but typically achieves nothing.

ttbn,
I’m well aware that our defence depends on the USA, as it has done since early in WWII.
At least in those days we had a defence industry.
You still haven’t told us how Australia could be defended.

The big question is would the US, under the present administration, defend us?

Gung Ho!!
Is Mise,
He sounds more Cambodian than Chinese !

I notice that rache is calling me a 'clown' now. The people in Canada demonstrating for democracy against Trudeau he called white supremists, fascists.

When a certain sort has his balloon burst, he invariably resorts to name-calling. Rache would be better employed pointing out his "facts" and "history" instead of blurting out childish invective against me.

Is Mise. I'll leave you to your mutterings, which I am sad to say, are not very consistent; and, your constant nagging at me - a layperson - to give you a battle plan to deal with China is bizarre.

ttbn,
A lay person, you mean you have no military experience?
Yet you want to fight China, how bizarre.

tbbn,
I was replying in the only way you seem to know. Yours are typically low on fact but big on insult and aggression. You must watch a lot of Sky after Dark where they attack one side relentlessly but somehow never try to defend their own position.

I didn't say the Canadian protestors were all white supremacists and fascists but that they were certainly represented there, as they are at most public gatherings.

I also replied to your misguided comment on the presence of a specific flag (not the one you assumed) at a recent local rally in the relevant discussion.

In answer to your question Is Mise- the easiest way to defend Australia against China is using Nuclear Scorched Earth either by dirty bombs and atomic bombs and missiles. Hopefully they're already in place.

But there are a number of other strategies necessary to deny access to China in the diplomatic and business realms.

I think China is too big to play nice- and needs to be divided up into at least four nations.

CM,
And after the retaliation, what?

Fortunately for Australia, our kudos Nazi can only talk crap here. His opinions resonate with a few of the Forum Old Farts, as well as 0.1% of the population.

Good question Issy.

Is Mise- From your comment I'm not sure if you know what "scorched earth" is. We would salt our own soil in Australia so that it would be pointless for the Chinese to take it- if it becomes obvious that China is invading. This particular part of the defense is not a retaliation as far as I can see. China will decline in time but their aggression needs to be addressed- as part of the WWI result Germany lost a lot of their territory- in a sense you could argue that Germany's actions in WWI were less than Chinese aggression now. I'm happy for you to disagree if you like.

"We would salt our soil in Australia". I presume "salting" includes the detonation of dirty bombs and atomic bombs on Australian citizens, a whole new meaning to death by friendly fire.

Crazy as a cut snake.

CM,
You’d bomb/missile China?
Scorched earth isrr what Australia would be after China retaliated.

After we salt our land and make it worthless, what do we live on?

Imported food from China?

Woolworths and others already import some foodstuffs from there.

Well Is Mise- you may have experience with small arms- but anyway-

Often salting the earth is accompanied by some sort of withdrawal. Do you really think the Australian people would survive if China came to Oz. At least we could weaken them as we are destroyed.

Perhaps Biden wanted to leave the equipment for the Taliban.

Warfare requires a different sort of thinking.

Paraphrasing Roosevelt- Freedom isn't free.

Perhaps different activities by the west in recent history would have resulted in different outcomes.

With respect Is Mise would you prefer to smooth the Chinese transition into Australia.

Oh or Zero :) .

‘…at least we could weaken them as we are destroyed”

So said the rodent as he tore a tuft of hair off the terrier’s nose.

I visited Hiroshima just 7 years after the Bomb fell, it was still impressive and that was only a ‘little’ bomb.

Keep trying to make your point Is Mise. With respect- I think you just made two contradicting ones.

I guess it's Oh Is Mise.