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The Forum > General Discussion > Its Another Holiday

Its Another Holiday

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As we approach the 234th anniversary of Australia Day, some would say Invasion Day, where are we on the question of Constitutional recognition of the First Australians.
In 1991 the Royal Commission Into Aboriginal Deaths In Custody recommended that a formal process of reconciliation between white and black Australians be undertaken. In 2010 Julia Gillard announced plans to recognise Indigenous Australians in the Constitution, 11 years later nothing from Government has taken place to achieve this noble aim.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 24 January 2022 6:30:57 AM
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Dear Paul,

I came across this on the web:

http://abc.net.au/news/2021-12-17/indigenous-voice-to-parliament/100708186

I got qui9te excited reading the link. It stated that:

"The final proposal for an Indigenous Voice to Parliament has
been released by the federal government, establishing two
levels of advisory bodies to weigh in on legislation and
policies effecting Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander
people."

"Following years of lobbying for community representation at
federal level and an 18 month long consultation process, the
government has put forward its model to be legislated possibly
as early as next year."

"According to the final report, the National Voice will ensure
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have a direct
say on any national laws, policies, and programs, affecting them."

"The system will be comprised of "Local and Regional Voices" and
an overarching "National Voice" that would provide advice to
both the Australian federal parliament and government."

Surely that's a big step in the right direction?

There's more at the given link.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 24 January 2022 10:15:46 AM
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The 'holiday' is at least being held on the date, and nobody is getting another long weekend.

On the date and the day - which has nothing to do with the 'voice' - Only 15%  support a change to the Australia Day date and, of course, they lurk mainly in the media, universities, and schools. 
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 24 January 2022 11:11:17 AM
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What did the Aborigines call a day when they lost a clash with the families next door & then grabbed everything they could ?
That's what we could call this day !
Posted by individual, Monday, 24 January 2022 12:52:07 PM
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individual,

Did they call it payback?
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 24 January 2022 1:10:24 PM
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We should honour the first Australians and it’s high time that the Federal Government launched an anthropological inquiry to find out who they were and where they came from.
I’m afraid however that they may be lost in the mists of time.

Anyone claiming to belong to the First Australians should have to shew proof.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 24 January 2022 2:44:15 PM
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Dear Paul,

Talking about Australia Day.

January 26th does not celebrate the establishment of
Australia as a country but marks the foundation of the
British colony of NSW.

Most nations celebrate their national day on the date
of independence from their colonial power, not the day
of colonization.

The date has negative associations for all Australians, both
Indigenous and non-Indigenous. It marks the start of
dispossession and discrimination for Indigenous Australians
and the arrival of convicts in chains.

A different date would be a significant symbolic act towards
Reconciliation.

Perhaps the day we become a Republic would be a good time
to celebrate? Just a thought.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 24 January 2022 3:02:26 PM
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I read an article years ago that another people proceeded the aborigines.
It appears that the two groups fought each other and the first group
were the losers and retreated to Tasmania.
Cannot remember any more than that.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 24 January 2022 3:25:37 PM
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I doubt there will ever be a "Constitutional recognition of the First Australians" for the simple reason that it has different meaning to different people and the differences are irreconcilable.

I think a plurality would support a statement in the constitutions preamble that acknowledge that there were some people on the land prior to the formation of the nation, that they had been here for [insert whatever BS number you've fallen for] thousand years and that they had some affinity with the land. There would also need to be a statement that the words of the preamble didn't give those claiming descent from the so-called first people any additional powers or rights.

But that would not be acceptable to the elite and the aboriginal industry who see a constitutional acknowledgement as a back-door way to get additional powers and rights for themselves over the heads of the general population. They will not settle for a mere statement that didn't carry extra rights.

And never the twain shall meet.

So no constitutional change. The need to get a majority of people in a majority of states means you need overwhelming support. That ain't coming.
Posted by mhaze, Monday, 24 January 2022 4:07:33 PM
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Bazz,

Its very true that the Tasmanian natives were significantly less advanced than the mainlanders, so its very likely they were pushed further and further south by more advanced interlopers.

Its also true that there were peoples who were clearly not aboriginal in the Daintree even up to the late 19th century.

And my old favourite was the so-called Bradshaw peoples of the Kimberley who created art that is completely different from anything the aboriginals created and were therefore obviously a different peoples. Their existence is currently being expunged from history.
Posted by mhaze, Monday, 24 January 2022 4:24:44 PM
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Seeing Earth is believed to have become habitable in the first 500 million years, 65,000 years isn't long, and any number of people could have been here before what we think of as 'aboriginals' arrived. These figures that everyone takes as gospel are about as genuine as the smoking ceremonies and welcome to country performances invented by Ernie Dingo and a mate in the 1970s.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 24 January 2022 5:01:11 PM
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Foxy,
I think that the 26 th January is a very appropriate date, 775 convicts arrived and started a new life which for the majority of them meant a far better life, that was a positive and so we celebrate.
645 of the new arrivals were free persons (did you miss that?) and many of them also did well.
But most importantly the 26th marks the beginning of the Indigenous Australians moving into the modern world of today, now they have access to education, health care, housing, vehicles, decent hunting weapons, good food and the list goes on.
Of course there are the wingers and moaners who want to reintroduce racism but they are but a vocal minority of Aboriginal Australians, the majority of whom distance themselves from the W@Ms.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 24 January 2022 5:11:47 PM
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Hi Foxy,

Thanks for the link, in my view the Morrison government is looking for an out, someway of giving Aboriginal people a "voice" but only on the white mans terms, no real voice at all. Aboriginal people offered the Uluru Statement, and Turnbull rejected it out of hand. That rejection by Turnbull showed the Coalition is not serious about recognition. If Morrison is returned the talkfest will continue but nothing of substance will flow from it. Only the adoption of the Uluru Statement and a referendum giving constitutional recognition will do.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 5:39:06 AM
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Did they call it payback?
Foxy,
Even though when they were the aggressors in the first place ?
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 5:41:13 AM
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Issy, are they the same hunting weapons our ancestors used to exterminate thousands of Aboriginal people. We can't change history, but we can recognise it, and learn from it.

ttbn, good idea, 26th January you should go down to the sea shore and pay a visit to your relatives, Uncle and Aunty Slime and all the little Slimes.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 6:25:47 AM
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This sort of clickbait banged out before every Australia Day is as predictable and boring as the instructions given to parents every year on the TV 'news' at the beginning of the school year on what sort of shoes they should buy their children. That's those permitted to go to school by the health tyrants.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 6:53:32 AM
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Talking to tourists the other day & they told me how disappointed they were when the paid good money to watch an Aborigine dance group but all the performers were nothing short of European looking !
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 8:11:24 AM
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The changes that might be made by a referendum must have a sunset clause.
Think about it; in say 200 years there would be a group of people who
are 1/32 part aboriginal who will claim any rights available.
Already there are many aboriginals who you would never pick as such.
They could end up as selective as those claiming to be Norman Knights
or the Aristocrats of the country.

Any legislation based on race HAS to have a sunset clause.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 8:14:16 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPt8bfNdgFs

Foxy,
What's your opinion on this ?
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 8:28:10 AM
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Sorry about that Indy, paid good money to watch "Sambo" dance and all they got was some white fellas doing the mumbo shuffle. Maybe Namatjira and Truganini were on holidays.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 8:33:13 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz1krtI6xow
Foxy,
And now give us your opinion on this.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 8:56:37 AM
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Paul,
No not the same weapons at all.
Weapons have progressed in over 200 years and today’s Aboriginal hunters use the latest technology, laser rangefinders variable power optical sights, high velocity expanding bullets, electronic calls name it and they’ve got it, nary a boomerang or spear in sight.
That’s progress,
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 9:38:01 AM
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individual,

Thank you for the two links. One I found very disturbing.
The other quite uplifting (a good add for Virgin airlines).
Education is the key - but much more is needed to be done.

"This land began as a dumping ground
Of British crims and the unsound
History has written in our books
Here's where Imperial Britain sent its crooks

No mention was made of our native people
Who some described as primitive and feeble
Who's to blame for this dilemma
The White Man's Law and his Systema?

Frankly though it's not too late
We can make changes and navigate
Righting the past in our Constitution
Correcting the history of total exclusion

Generations of many nations
Are now a part of our population
Equal and free, surrounded by sea
Is the way this brown land should now really be!"
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 9:38:10 AM
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Paul,
I forgot to add, motor bikes, quads and four wheel drives; also snake proof pants and waterproof clothing also not forgeting tinned/dehydrated food and snug tents.
Almost forgot, emergency medical kits and “Find Me” beacons if injured, just in case the Mobile Phone is in a dead spot.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 9:47:20 AM
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If the activists are unhappy with calling the 26th of Jan Australia day, perhaps we could call it Civilization day?
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 10:44:39 AM
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Why should it be a holiday for all?
People of principle who object would insist on their right to work and wouldn’t have a bar of such an objectionable day off.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 10:51:10 AM
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I like shadowminister's "Civilisation Day",

The basic requirements for civilisation are:

cities,
government,
religion,
social structure,
writing and art.

Extras such as:

job specialisation
public works

are often added.

The recently dubbed "First Nations" (copied from American race/culture fanatics) could never be described as civilised or as a civilisations.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:16:28 AM
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The minimum requirement for civilization is the written word. An import to Aus to upgrade an outdated culture.
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:29:27 AM
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Civilization Day?

Considering the treatment of our Indigenous People
in which dispossession, discrimination, disease, killings,
have taken place we could hardly with a clear conscience
call the day it all began - "Civilization Day."

After all a civilized society is characterized by tolerance
as well as how it treats the vulnerable. We still have a
long way to go in that regard.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 12:20:42 PM
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Foxy,

Civilisation does not mean any of those things you ascribe to it.

The Romans had writing, literature art, law commerce etc and were civilised, but very cruel in many ways.
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 12:26:54 PM
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And to think Issy, we gave the Blackfella all those wonderful things without him even having to ask. If we had all those great modern weapons we could have wiped out the entire black population in the 19th century instead of just half of em'. Progress!

If I kick you out of your house, and give you a shiny new penny, how will you feel? Overjoyed I assume.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 12:35:08 PM
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shadow minister,

Yes, the Soviet Regime, and Communist China and North
Korea have the things you ascribe also. Do you still
think that they're "civilized" in an ethical and moral sense?

There's a saying in applied ethics that the worst ethical
decisions you'll ever make are the ones you don't recognise
as ethical decisions. So when you find yourself in the
thick of argument, do your best to remember what's morally at
stake. Otherwise there's a risk you might lose a lot more
than you win.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 1:14:10 PM
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shadow minister,

Excellent rebuttal. Some people these days try to twist language, ideas, mores and morals - even facts - around to mean what they think they should mean. Another word misused is 'nations' when referring to the (maybe) first occupiers of our continent. There were about 500 clans or family groups comprising what is now deemed to be the oldest inhabitants. 'First Nations' is a highly imaginative description pinched from North American activists and troublemakers. Their (maybe) indiginese were not civilised either. As for 'tolerance', they spent a good deal of their time killing each other.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 1:33:01 PM
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Come on little man, time to stop feeling sorry for yourself, or what ever bit of yourself has aboriginal heritage. It is the story of the world since time immemorial. Stronger or more advanced groups take over from the weaker, & either absorb or expunge them.

How many conquering Pharaoh ruled Egypt. How many destinies swept away the old in China, & how many stronger tribes moved on the old every where on earth, just as in the UK.

It was always going to happen, & the Australian aborigines were a bit lucky it was the poms here. It could have been a lot worse for them if other likely colonisers had come first. Ask the Aztecs if you can find one.
Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 1:45:09 PM
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Hi Foxy,

According to our little band of storm troopers definition, the Nazi's were civilized. Your civilised if you can read and write and exterminate millions of innocent men women and children at the same time.

What do you think? Civilization is much more than bricks and mortar.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 1:52:57 PM
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Read an article recently that showed that Australia was covered in Ice in the last Ice Age. Aboriginal history could not have survived the ICE AGE.

http://www.migrationheritage.nsw.gov.au/objects-through-time/essays/50000-years-before-present/attachment/map-of-ice-age-aust/index.html
Posted by Josephus, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 2:02:58 PM
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Paul,
Of course the NAZIS were civilized, that’s what made their crimes so horrendous, the same things done by an uncivilized people would not have engendered such loathing.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 2:27:12 PM
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Issy,

By you reckoning the NAZI's gave the Holocaust victims, food, shelter, clothing, work, even beds to sleep in. What more could they ask for?
Typical Shooters Party guff, no mention of the genocide that took place in Australia from the day of European settlement until well into the 20th century when tens of thousands of Aboriginal people were exterminated. What do you have to say about that?
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 3:08:49 PM
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Paul,
Regarding Australia the Indigenous are much better off now than pre 1788, even smallpox has been eradicated.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 3:19:22 PM
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I know you are only trying to take the Micky, but what was the smallpox like pre 1788? By 1790 90% of the Aboriginal population around Sydney Cove was dead from smallpox. But they did have their shiny new Swiss Army Knives thanks to Governor Phil.

BTW, was that the same Phil who married the present Queen Eliz, he was 357 when he carked it. COULD BE.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 3:53:12 PM
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Paul,
There is no evidence what so ever that the 1789 outbreak was smallpox.
Apparently none of the settlers caught it and there was plenty of interaction between them and the natives.
It was referred to at the time as smallpox but Watkin Tench remarked in his journal that he had never seen anything like it, and one assumes that as a serving Marine he would have seen smallpox.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 4:56:05 PM
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By 1790, smallpox was not as serious a disease as it once was for the European, natural immunity, something Aboriginal people did not have, protected them, 90% recovered. The only ones who today dispute that smallpox didn't kill 90% of Aboriginal people around Sydney Cove in 1790 are the old racists looking for an out.

Issy you're the expert, what was the gun of choice used in the 19th century to shoot like dogs thousands of unarmed Aboriginal women and children. What is the Shooters Party unwritten policy in dealing with the Aboriginal "problem" today? I think we both know what these far right crazies would do given half a chance, but you tell me.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 9:11:49 PM
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Pauliar and Foxy,

Get a dictionary. And don't confuse civilisation with morality they are actually different things and it is entirely possible to be civilized and immoral such as socialist Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, China, NK etc.

The very minimum requirement for civilization is considered arguably to be the written language. Some countries can be more civilized than others which is where morality and the rule of law come in.
Posted by shadowminister, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 3:36:39 AM
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Hi Foxy,

I totally agree with your summation of what it means to be civilized. shonkyminister simply wants to justify the horrific behaviour of despots and murderers he admires as being "civilized".

Many tribes of Native Americans on witnessing the barbaric behaviour of the Europeans thought they were uncivilized.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 5:54:02 AM
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Pauliar, you really are an atrocious liar.

At no point have I condoned the vile behaviour of any extremists such as the Nazis or the Greens.
Posted by shadowminister, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 6:17:59 AM
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Happy Hypocrites' Day to all those enjoying a good existence in Australia but condemning it at the same time !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 7:28:56 AM
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Grace Tame's appallingly childish and churlish attitude and behaviour towards Scott Morrison- on national TV - clearly showed that she was a very poor choice for last year's Australian of The Year. There have been some very puzzling choices in the past, but she would have to be the worst. Let's hope this year’s recipient knows how to conduct himself. Good riddance Grace.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 8:11:14 AM
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According to ttbn, one of the requirements, possibly the only requirement to be Australian of the Year, is an ability to suck up to ScumO Morrison. Great!
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 8:43:44 AM
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Grace Tame got the title only because she was a 'victim' and an activist, bringing attention to herself. Character, decorum and simple good manners were not on last year's requirement list, apparently.

I can't stand Scott Morrison but, if I ever had the misfortune to meet him, I would treat him with the same friendliness and politeness I always offer to everyone else.

Anyone who cannot respect the office of our leader around Australia Day, is not a very nice person - certainly undeserving of any honours this person received.

What a gross lack of respect and maturity from a recipient of our country's highest honour.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 9:36:11 AM
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I think that on this Australia Day we should remember and give thanks to the thousands of Europeans killed by aboriginals in the early years of the settlement as they bravely tried to drag the stone age peoples into the civilised world.
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 9:49:21 AM
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A good summing up from someone other than me:

"Grace-less — behaving like a childish brat who was undermining all the good work she has achieved as Australian of the Year".

Have a look at the photos, the face. Talk about a kiddy in a snit.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 9:54:27 AM
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mhaze

Good point. Australian white-anters, who know nothing about history, seem to think aboriginals were all sweetness and light. They killed us. They killed each other. Now they are burning things like Old Parliament House. How long before we see a second-hand version of BLM rioting, looting and burning.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 10:03:11 AM
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The invention of Australian history is in full swing now ! Photoshop is helping greatly in composing pictures to perfectly suit the agenda of the Anarchists !
Have a miserable Hypocrite Day !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 10:09:09 AM
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Paul,
There is no evidence that it was smallpox in 1789, informed opinion is that it was probably chicken pox, which can have a devastating effect on those who have no immunity.
Hence Watkin Tench being puzzled by it as chicken pox among those with some immunity is much milder.
Small pox was already in Australia before 1789 having come in via what is present day Indonesia.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 10:38:31 AM
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Yes mhaze there were the Frontier Wars, where some Aboriginal people desperately tried to resist the European invasion and generside. Some Europeans were killed, but the number was small compared to the mass extermination of Aboriginals. The native population in 1788 is estimated at 770,000 by 1901 their number had been reduced to 190,000 through introduced diseases and murder. On the other hand the white population went from 1300 to 3,700,000 in the same period. Before you ask look it up.

Its histories revisionist like you that prevents reconciliation between white and black Australians.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 10:41:16 AM
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Its histories revisionist like you that prevents reconciliation between white and black Australians.
mhaze,
And, the Paul1405's are responsible for steering decent non indigenous to racism !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 11:34:32 AM
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"Its histories revisionist like you ..."

This isn't revisionist history, its just history that people like you are blissfully (deliberately?) ignorant of.

Pro-aborigine historian Henry Reynolds estimated that there were 20000 aboriginal deaths in the so-called Frontier Wars. All up.

He also conceded that there were at least 2000 European deaths in that 'war'. Hence my post. Not revisionist history, just better understanding of history. As usual.

Remember that Reynold's number isn't based on research but on guess-work. He steadfastly refuses to provide any corroborating evidence. Better research suggests his black deaths numbers is an exaggeration.

There were so few documented deaths that another pro-native historian, Lyndal Ryan, was reduced to fabricating newspaper articles to try to boost her number of natives killed in Tasmania.

Many of those who are ignorant of the truth such as yourself assume that the deaths in the Frontier Wars was a major cause of the decline in native numbers. But the evidence doesn't support that....not that the lack of evidence has ever been a problem for you.

The major reason for the decline in aboriginal numbers were:

* disease - not just from diseases bought by the Europeans but also from Indonesian traders.
* inter-marriage with the off-spring trying to deny their aboriginality (until recent times when being aboriginal became quite lucrative)
* decline in the birth-rate primarily due to the practice of native men selling their women to whites for bread and grog.

Again, there were clearly lots of black deaths in the Frontier Wars. But there were also lots of white deaths.

But that doesn't support your narrative, so you'll ignore it. But we don't all have to be deliberately ignorant of the truth.
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 12:25:32 PM
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Hey Paul,

C'MON AUSSIE, C'MON, C'MON,
C'MON AUSSIE, C'MON, C'MON,
C'MON AUSSIE, C'MON, C'MON,
C'MON AUSSIE, C'MON, C'MON ...
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 12:34:28 PM
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Foxy,
At last, a really intellectual contribution. Well done.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 12:47:28 PM
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Is Mise,

You mean you're not going to ask me to explain it
to you?
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 1:13:23 PM
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Foxy,
Explanation unnecessary.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 1:15:31 PM
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mhaze, your last post is a crock of sh!t, made by an apologist to hide the truth. I give you an 80% decline in the native population and a 10,000% increase in the whites over the first 113 years of European settlement, and you try some nonsense of a distortion based on so called "better research", by whom fella, by whom.. YOU. I say a people with primitive weapons were decimated, by those with far more advanced weapons say at a ratio of 10 to 1, possibly higher, but again you try to negate those numbers to suit your narrative. Now if the Aboriginals had AK47's with an army of one million, and the Whites were armed with pea shooter, I might agree with you. I'll agree, disease was a far more effective killer than the gun, but let's put that down to the mysterious "Indonesian fishermen", more deflection on your part.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 3:05:12 PM
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Copied from a Facebook post today !
Keep in mind that these are 200 pop. islands with 90% of family home all day.
One would think all that rich & diverse culture would be in full swing in these circumstances.

On a recent media release by TSIRC I learned that out of the 15 divisions (outer island communities) there are only two (2) childcare facilities established.
I nearly fell off my chair!
No wonder there is such a huge gap in our children’s education.
I don’t work for education and I haven’t seen the stats but I see and hear what goes on in community in my region, and I see the great deal of culture shock when kids get to TI or even mainland.
Early education is an essential part of a child’s growth!
Families lo outer islands youpla need to make noise get behind youpla councillors work together to get this service established!
Like really how long has it been?
How many councils?
How many terms?
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 5:25:41 PM
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Paul,

Not my numbers, those of pro-native historians like Reynolds and Ryan. I get that you don't want the truth to be true when it doesn't suit but alas, it remains true.

Reynolds numbers were 20000 natives killed in warfare against 2000 whites. I think those numbers exaggerate native deaths but they are probably in the ball park.

BTW the whites didn't have AK-47s. How bad is you understanding of history?

"let's put that down to the mysterious "Indonesian fishermen""

Well they're only 'mysterious' to those who prefer their history in comic-book form....

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10314618508595710?src=recsys

You are so tiresome Paul. You have this jaundiced history fixed in your mind and when its pointed out that its based on fable rather than fact, you always throw these tantrums.

Again Reynolds is on your side of the issue, although he bases his views on fact not fable. He's already been outed for doctoring quotes so as to the detriment of the British. His numbers are widely accepted. They may not suit your narrative and fantasies but I'm not sure that's relevant.
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 5:28:56 PM
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historian Henry Reynolds
mhaze,
I tend to take history a tad more serious !
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 5:29:50 PM
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Lack of comprehension mhaze, I was being facetious in saying Aboriginals with AK47's and a million man army, Whites with pea shooters, not the other way around, are you just thick, try reading it may help? You are the apologist, when I present something which doesn't suit your pathetic narrative, you present some alternative "facts" of your own, then claim to be Mr Congeneality.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 6:16:13 PM
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I was being facetious in saying Aboriginals with AK47

Me too. My point is that the weapons the whites had were only marginally more efficacious than the what the aboriginals had. 3 or 4 white shepherds out in the field, even with firearms, were no match for a determined dozen natives.

"then claim to be Mr Congeneality."

I make no such claim...I don't need to. Its obvious.
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 6:35:29 PM
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Congratulations to the Indiginous people of Australia, 50 years today the Aboriginal Tent Embassy was established in Canberra. The longest continuous running Indiginous protest in the world. Despite numerous attempts to tear them down and drive the Aboriginal occupants of their land, they are still there. Here we are 234 years on, and despite numerous attempts to tear them down, the Aborigin occupants of their land, they are still here.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 26 January 2022 6:54:12 PM
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Paul,

For god's sake get spell check.
Posted by shadowminister, Thursday, 27 January 2022 9:17:48 AM
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More orders from you SM. I can't be bothered. Always seem to have a problem using the phone, keys are to small and it puts in its own words.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 27 January 2022 9:26:08 AM
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The other problem SM is I can't see, eye cataracts, up for 2 ops over the next 2 months. Restricted driving as well, but that's life. Enlarging the screen does help a little, but I should just stick to the laptop.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 27 January 2022 9:38:42 AM
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the Aborigin occupants of their land, they are still here.

And, who do they think is this due to, the Asians & Arabs ?
Posted by individual, Thursday, 27 January 2022 9:58:09 AM
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individual,

Here's some clarity for you:

http://survivalinternational.org/tribes/aboriginals#
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 27 January 2022 10:12:27 AM
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Paul,
Eye can sympathise with you; have a cataract in the left eye but it’s not worth operating on yet, had one removed from the right and now have 20/20 in that eye.
The eye doc putt a new lens in and I have to carry a card with the details in case I’m ever injured and unconscious.
All the best with the ops and you’ll be seeing much better; but it’s not as dramatic as for deaf people who get their hearing restored, they discover that farts are not generally silent.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 27 January 2022 11:16:04 AM
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Thanks Foxy

An excellent link, truth telling is something some on here can't get their heads around, or refuse to acknowledge the truth. It's a fact 80% of the Aboriginal population was wiped out in a little over 100 years of European settlement. Their numbers have only recovered to pre-colonial levels today through the infusion of mostly European blood, and some say only those of pure blood should be recognised, well that's about zero and those who say that know it.
There is no way to change the past, but recognition of that past will give us all, white and black, the opportunity to come together and move forward. It's not just some white people who need to change, some Aboriginal people also need to change their attitudes as well.

Keep safe and prosper.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 27 January 2022 11:26:02 AM
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Thanks Issy,

Funny story, last checkup for DL. She put up the chart and said what line can you read; I said; "sorry the charts in Chinese"..."no its not, you just can't read it" ha ha my op lady is Chinese. Well did someone say KFC. She passed me, saying; no driving at night, no driving in the rain, no driving long distances or on unfamiliar roads, and wear you driving glasses, I'm putting it on your license. Told me to come back in 6 months, and the bad news, more deterioration and a referral to a specialist. At first I thought the eye problem was from diabetes, but seems not, that isn't the cause.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 27 January 2022 11:43:47 AM
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The trouble with articles like that Foxy linked is that some people actually fall for that stuff. Not many I venture, but just enough to stifle progress for the natives.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 27 January 2022 12:46:38 PM
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Most Australians support a First Nations Voice to
Parliament in some form. The following link
explains further:

http://theconversation.com/most-australians-support-first-nations-voice-to-parliament-survey-157964#
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 27 January 2022 12:59:36 PM
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Foxy,
They’ve already got it, elected representatives, just like the rest of us.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 27 January 2022 1:12:04 PM
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Is Mise,

The elected representatives represent their
electorates. There is a difference in what
the Indigenous People are asking and what
many Australians now support. Read the link.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 27 January 2022 1:39:23 PM
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Foxy's most recent link claims most Australian's support giving blacks an addition voice. The claims are based on a survey. AN ONLINE SURVEY. Let that since in....the best evidence they have is an online survey. Some people will fall for anything.

"One of the most important reasons for studying history is that virtually every stupid idea that is in vogue today has been tried before and proved disastrous before, time and again." Sowell.

If you want to find out about aboriginal representative bodies, read the disastrous history of ATSIC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_and_Torres_Strait_Islander_Commission
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 27 January 2022 1:57:07 PM
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Folks read the following two links that provide
information on the reality of what's currently
happening:

http://abc.net.au/news/2021-12-17/indigenous-voice-to-parliament/100708186#

AND -

http://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/business-law/indigenous-voice-overwhelming-support-constitutional-enshrinement

Despite the naysayers - the facts speak for themselves.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 27 January 2022 2:55:16 PM
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Here's another link on why we need Aboriginal control
of Aboriginal affairs:

http://sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2017/03/23/comment-we-need-aboriginal-control-aboriginal-affairs
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 27 January 2022 3:11:14 PM
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Foxy

Ah!! Shure, ‘an tis all clear t’ me now.

Oim hopin’ dat youl support seperate Oirsh represtation as well.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 27 January 2022 4:51:00 PM
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"virtually every stupid idea that is in vogue today has been tried before and proved disastrous" aka ATSIC.
But the usual crowd will ignore that. Completely misunderstand it and completely ignore it.

Foxy laughingly thinks she's linking to balanced reports....one from her ABC, one from SBS, one from the activists at UNSW. Seriously!

Actually the last one has some value. It says most people want a referendum. I do. So that the people, rather than the elite whingers, get a say.

And then when the change goes down in flames, maybe they'll shut up and actually get on with helping the most disadvantaged natives. Nay, who am I kidding....they'll just go on whinging.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 27 January 2022 5:47:10 PM
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Take a good look folks as to who's doing the actual
finger-pointing and whinging on this and other discussions.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 27 January 2022 8:49:12 PM
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Here's some clarity for you:
Foxy,
No, it isn't clarity at all, it's the usual muddying by non-indigenous people who benefit greatly from writing in this manner.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 27 January 2022 11:23:15 PM
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Foxy,

ATSIC was an unmitigated disaster and was disbanded after problems with corruption, embezzlement and incompetent management.

If all the bleeding hearts want a constitutionally based shambles like this having real power they seriously need to think of the dire consequences that are not only possible but likely.
Posted by shadowminister, Friday, 28 January 2022 7:11:52 AM
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SM, the failure of ATSIC almost 20 years ago should not be a reason to never ever contemplate the establishment of an Aboriginal body of useful purpose today. Would you say the establishment of the United Nations should have never taken place because the League of Nations was such a failure. Learn from past experience and improve.

BTW, much of the ATSIC problems were down to one man.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 28 January 2022 7:35:04 AM
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The proposed new aboriginal body has one major advantage over ATSIC, which should stand it in good stead.

ATSIC was formed by an act of parliament. So when it became clear just how corrupt the body had become, it was possible for the parliament to stop the bleeding by closing it down.

Of course, it took a while and a government with some scruples to do it. Previously, in 1994, when it was clear that corruption was rampant, the then Minister refused to investigate on the basis it was racist to do so. Proving that there is a God, that minister, Robert Tickner, lost his seat in 1996.

But the new body, if it were to ever be constituted, would be beyond the control of parliament and therefore corruption would no longer be a problem.

So from the point of view of the aboriginal industry, a win-win. New jobs and sinecures and no oversight of any consequence. Great for them. For the rest of community, not so much.

___________________________________________________________________

"much of the ATSIC problems were down to one man."

Rubbish - as usual. ATSIC had problems long before Clark got accused of rape. That was just the last straw. Corruption went all the way back to the early 1990s under Loise O'Donoghue.
Its almost as though the very purpose of these bodies is to line the pockets of the aboriginal leadership.
Posted by mhaze, Friday, 28 January 2022 9:16:02 AM
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ATSIC failed because the management lived up to the acronym !
Posted by individual, Friday, 28 January 2022 10:06:43 AM
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Paul,

ATSIC was set up with the best intentions. Without external oversight, the aboriginal "leaders" completely abused their positions eventually forcing the government to close down the gravy train.

While this does not mean that something shouldn't be set up in the future, it means that safeguards need to be in place including the ability of the parliament to shut it down. Maybe after a decade of success, it could be included in the constitution.
Posted by shadowminister, Friday, 28 January 2022 11:00:27 AM
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A sensible comment SM.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 28 January 2022 6:32:44 PM
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Thanks
Posted by shadowminister, Monday, 31 January 2022 3:14:31 PM
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