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The Forum > General Discussion > Kyle Rittenhouse

Kyle Rittenhouse

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After being physically attacked by 3 white protesters which he shot killing two Kyle Rittenhouse was acquitted on all charges based on self-defence. By the left, he is being called a white supremacist and murderer while ignoring the wanton destruction of property and murders by activists.

With varying degrees of apoplexy, from President Biden on down, the party’s leaders and its allies emphasised their dismay with or rage at the decision by 12 of Mr Rittenhouse’s peers, after due deliberation, unanimously to find him not guilty of first-degree murder and lesser charges in the killings of two men and wounding of a third during the August 2020 riots in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Mr Biden, proving himself once again the consummate moral weakling, first declared his respect for the jury’s verdict, then pronounced himself — no doubt after consultation with his handlers — “angry and concerned.” While the follow-up statement paid lip service to the idea that a jury’s decision should be respected, the more striking message was that remarkable emotional response to its unanimous decision
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 23 November 2021 12:31:39 PM
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shadowminister,

What on earth are you talking about. Biden's release said this:

"While the verdict in Kenosha will leave many Americans feeling angry and concerned, myself included, we must acknowledge that the jury has spoken."

Perfectly fine statement that you have tried to chop up to create something to support your agenda.

It is dishonest and unbecoming but not untypical where you are concerned.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/11/19/statement-by-president-biden/
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 23 November 2021 1:33:17 PM
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I'm wondering whether he would have been acquitted in Australia. I don't know why he went to a protest in a town he doesn't live in, armed with a rifle, or why he went to the protest at all. He is a very lucky young man who, hopefully, has learned not to 'do it again'.

I also wonder what the verdict would have been had the dead people been black.

I don't really know enough about it, but the fact that it is Leftists making all the fuss about the verdict means that it was probably the right one.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 23 November 2021 2:05:21 PM
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SR,

You really need to put a sock in it. What I posted was a quote from an article, and secondly, the order in which it occurs is largely irrelevant.

As usual, your fatuous nitpicking is your substitution for reasoned debate and is typically dishonest.
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 23 November 2021 2:20:51 PM
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I agree with gun safety advocate Ryan Busse a former
gun industry executive who said he feared Mr
Ritterhouse would become:

"Some heroic martyr" who made it "glamourous tp go
kill somebody with a rifle.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 23 November 2021 2:29:15 PM
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shadowminister,

"What I posted was a quote from an article"

What a typically lame excuse.

If you are going to quote from something the very least you could do is put up the quotation marks or even a link as well.

You really need to stop trying to pass this stuff off as your own.

Shame.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Tuesday, 23 November 2021 3:34:42 PM
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SR,

A bit of a pathetic apology after looking so stupid.

The issue is that the left whinge media are looking at massive lawsuits after branding this guy a racist and white supremacist.
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 23 November 2021 3:39:48 PM
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Biden, fool and demagogue that he is, had previously rather incongruously called Rittenhouse a "white supremist". His statement following the trial needs to be seen in that light.

Rittenhouse will be held out as an exemplar of the right to self-defence. Equally, like Covington student Nick Sandmann, he will be held out as an example of those from a disfavoured group who the legacy media sought to destroy through lies and half-truths. Like Sandmann, Rittenhouse will start his adult life as a millionaire, curtesy of the lying 'progressive' media.
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 23 November 2021 3:49:16 PM
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Foxy,
Don’t agree with people who can’t use English, there is no question of Rittenhouse being killed for his beliefs etc. which is the definition of a martyr.
Really, as an educated librarian you should have seen this.

General.
No one is making any reference to the facts that those killed and the wounded one were/are convicted criminals and the survivor was armed with a pistol, despite it being a criminal offence for a felon to possess a firearm.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 23 November 2021 3:53:00 PM
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The plea of self-defence was accepted by the jury, and lawyers are gearing up to sue the media for their usual prejudices and prejudging of the case.

President Biden should also be sued for his pre-trial 'white supremacist' comment.

Suck it up Lefties. There is still some justice in this world, despite your hatred, nastiness and pig-ignorance.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 7:24:50 AM
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shadowminister,

What is most pathetic is assuming I was apologising to you in any describable fashion. I most certainly wasn't.

As to anyone suing anyone else this pathetic character likely has multiple civil lawsuits coming his way.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 8:28:51 AM
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Steele,
Why is he a pathetic character?
And good luck with any law suits against him, I’ll bet he ends up with millions of dollars when he is finished with the Media and the “incumbent fool”.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 8:43:52 AM
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Dear Steele,

Rittenhouse had no business owning or possessing his
Smith & Wesson M & P 15 or being in Kenosha that night.
A friend bought the gun which Rittenhouse paid for using
a government stimulus check because he was too young to
purchase an assault rifle. Rittenhouse put himself in
harm's way. He was the only one who pulled a trigger that
night. He also had a reputation for violence which the
judge ruled out.

Prosecutor Thomas Binger said in his closing argument
at Rittenhouse's murder trial:

"You can't claim self-defense for a danger that you create."

It turns out you can - in Wisconsin!

But as an article in The Washington points in its opinion
piece points out - being found not guilty on all 5 charges
does not mean he's morally innocent.

The guy showed no remorse for what he did. And he got
rewarded for it.

Not only is it pathetic. It's sick!
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 9:05:34 AM
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Foxy,
Why should the lad shew remorse, he performed a public service.
No comment on the wounded felon pointing an illegally held pistol at Rittenhouse with obvious intent to harm him?
The Prosecutor was a beauty, he picked up a gun in court, put it to his shoulder and aimed it with his finger on the trigger, and didn’t check to see if it was loaded,.
Now that’s demonstrating a regard for safety.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 9:42:58 AM
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cont'd ...

The article in The Washington Post tells us that
Rittenhouse's behaviour was needlessly provocative.
He crossed state lines from his home in Illinois
and foolishly put himself in harm's way.

Rittenhouse was the only person to pull a trigger that night.
He broke dopwn sobbing during his testimony not because of
what he did but because he claimed he felt he was in danger
in a place where he should not have been in the first place.

The Post tells us not to under estimate the power of
Rittenhouse's tears or the audible sobbing of his mother in
the court room. It had an effect on the jury of 7 women and
5 men.

Also a series of decisions by Judge Bruce E. Schroeder tipped
the scales in Rittenhouse's favour. The Judge forbade the
prosecution from calling the men Rittenhouse shot as "victims."

The Post says that more significantly the Judge blocked
the prosecutors from introducing 3 pieces of evidence that
illustrated the trigger-happy defendent's propensity for
violence.

The jury should have been given the chance to decide for
themselves Rittenhouse's state of mind - which would have shown
he was looking for trouble.

The Judge also dismissed the 6th charge against Rittenhouse -
the possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18 -
which Rittenhouse was at the time of purchase.

The whole trial was a farce. Had Rittenhouse been black -
the verdict would have been entirely different. That is the sad
state of affairs in the "land of the free and the brave."

We should all be grateful we live in this country.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 9:46:11 AM
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Foxy,
WOW1!
The continuation of your post breaks your record for unfounded assumptions; still I must admit that I seem to have read them before; do you ever do any original thinking?
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 10:08:03 AM
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"Rittenhouse was the only person to pull a trigger that night."

That is simply, laughably wrong. Wrong as in not even close to the truth. Wrong in the same way that saying the sun rises in the west is wrong. Wrong as in hiding the facts of the matter.

A 'protestor' (really they were arsonists and looters) named Ziminski fired the first shot while Rittenhouse was running away, making Rittenhouse think he was being targeted. Seconds later Rosenbaum caught him and tried to grab the gun.

So wrong.

Foxy also thinks the law was wrong to not allow supposed evidence of prior violent acts by Ritternhouse. I assume, because Foxy is strenuously even-handed, that she also thinks its wrong that evidence of previous sexual activity by a 'victim' can't be used in a rape trial.

I'm trying hard these days to not pile on with Foxy and SR when they make voluminous and egregious errors. So even though her posts on this are riddled with errors and half-truth as above, I'll leave it at that.
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 12:52:46 PM
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I don't know too much about the circumstances arising out of this unfortunate event - What I do know, if it were up to me Mr RITTENHOUSE wouldn't be permitted within a mile of an F/A for 'any' reason. The whole gun culture in the United States makes me despair singularly.
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 12:59:10 PM
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Dear O Sung Wu,

Thank You.

As always, well said.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 1:20:24 PM
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I watched hours of the trial on UTube and being posted here are media reports that are factually wrong. He was visiting his fathers home and initially protecting a friends car yard before being targeted by the Antifa thugs. He fired no shots at arsonists or looters except when they turned on him. I've watched the videos of the events shown in court and the Jury could see that his action was self defence. He handed himself into police and spent 82 days in prison, until a bond was paid for his release.
Posted by Josephus, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 1:37:05 PM
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Foxy,
Are you going to ignore the points raised?
What don’t you understand about the ‘discuss’ in ‘discussion forum’ ?
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 1:57:02 PM
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There are two competing narratives in the Kyle
Rittenhouse case:

1) Kyle Rittenhouse being a victim who was attached.

2) Kyle Rittenhouse being a vigilante who provoked the
violence.

The jury bought the victim narrative.

Mr HUber, the father of one of the victims said:

"It sends the unacceptable message that armed civilians
can show up in any townw, incite violence and then use the
danger they've created to justify shooting people in the
street."

Kyle Rittenhouse's claim that he was "trying to help the
community" and that he "reacted to people attacking him."
does not make any sense.

Why did Kyle Rittenhouse break curfew in a city he did not
live in and "pretend to guard" people and property he was
not familiar with?
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 3:19:50 PM
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Foxy many of your claims are false.
Huber was not a victim, he in the case was an agressor, and had criminal record of chocking his brother and had a pistol. They were terrorising the community lighting businesses on fire.

Kyle did not provoke violence as you claim, he was giving first aid to those with burns as he was training as a paramedic.

You are listening to media that supports Antifa and the destruction of America and its Democratic systems. It was the Antifa terrorists burning down the businesses that were in town committing crimes.

Rittenhouse began his testimony by telling jurors he is studying nursing at Arizona State University. He testified that he had worked as a lifeguard in Kenosha, was part of a police explorer program and knows CPR and basic life support.

He lived in Antioch, Illinois, with his mother, and his father lived in Kenosha. He testified that he went into Kenosha on the morning of August 25 to clean up graffiti, and then again that night with a rifle and small medic kit and joined up with a group of armed people.
"I went down there to provide first aid," he said. He said he did not go there looking for trouble.

Rittenhouse told jurors that Rosenbaum threatened to kill him twice that night. In one instance, Rosenbaum screamed, "if I catch any of you f@@@ alone, I'll f@@@ kill you," according to Rittenhouse.

He was in the city where his father lives and runs a business, he was asked by his father to help.

Rosenbaum was a convicted sex offender who spent 12 years in prison, barred from possessing a firearm. Rosenbaum anally raped children. Literally. 9 to 11 year-olds. You are glorifying a child rapist."

Huber was previously convicted of domestic abuse and disorderly conduct in 2018. He also spent time in prison in 2012 after assaulting choking his own brother.
Posted by Josephus, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 4:48:23 PM
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Foxy the Assumptionist strikes again.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 4:56:11 PM
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Complaints that the Judge erred in not allowing the prosecutor to describe the three shot as victims are not sound in law, they could not be described as ‘victims’ until the case was decided in their favour, and it wasn’t.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 6:05:47 PM
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We shouldn't be too hard on Foxy. Unlike people like Paul and SR who wantonly misrepresent facts in an effort to support their ideology, Foxy is merely spectacularly naïve.

Foxy, over the years has shown that she really doesn't want to read widely to get the truth but instead looks for comfort to reinforce her prejudices. After all, who reads the Washington Post to try to get the truth on this? You may as well read the China Daily to find out what happened to Peng Shuai.

Foxy reads those who tell her what she wants to believe and then believes it. There are millions like her. Even after the Rittenhouse verdict came out there were still people who repeated the lies told such as the 'victims' were black.

Its a massive problem for this society. If you have millions of Foxys who think they are informed while being utter uninformed, you end up with an electorate that is easily manipulated.

You end up with Russian collusion hoaxes and stolen generation lies and climate catastrophism.
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 24 November 2021 6:15:34 PM
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Foxy,

Much of the information you published is false.

KR did not cross the state line to go to the protest, as he was already in the state, and the breaking of curfew charge was dismissed because there was no actual curfew in place.

KR did not provoke the violence and even prosecution witnesses indicated that he made no aggressive moves. And the only people he shot were physically attacking him.

While I am not a fan of the gun laws in the US, his presence at the riot was not illegal in any way. The violence against him was real and unprovoked and given the history of murders by similar rioters potentially fatal.

KR is not a hero, but neither are those shot innocent victims
Posted by shadowminister, Thursday, 25 November 2021 6:37:30 AM
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Shadowminister, A factual post on the case.
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 25 November 2021 7:46:09 AM
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We can continue to argue this case and go around
in circles claiming all sorts of things.
It all depends on which narrative you believe
regarding Kyle Rittenhouse.

!) That he's a victim who was attacked.

2) Or a vigilante who put himself in harm's way.

The jury bought the victim narrative.

For me there's too many unanswered questions.

Sheriff David Beth declared the 7pm to 7 am curfew on
August 24th the day after a Kenosha police officer fired
7 shots at Jacob Blake leaving him paralyzed and setting off
protests, arson, and vandalism.

More than 250 arrests resulted. Only protesters had been
charged with curfew violations, many of them and their
supporters complained that none of the dozens of armed men
were ticketed.

Be that as it may - what I find troublesome is -

Why did Rittenhouse break curfew in a city he did not live
in and "pretend to guard" people and property he was not familiar with?

I simply don't buy his version of events.

I may well be "naive" but to me this entire business makes
no sense. And it does reflect the huge racial divide that
exists in America. Plus the added problem of guns.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 25 November 2021 9:18:46 AM
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Foxy,

"Judge Bruce Schroeder agreed to dismiss a curfew violation charge against Rittenhouse, ruling that prosecutors had failed to present any evidence a curfew was in place."

Therefore he didn't break curfew. Question answered. That rioters were arrested is a separate question.

Secondly, his reasons for being there are largely irrelevant. The rioters attacked and assaulted him unprovoked giving him a legitimate reason to defend himself.

As for his reasons, the rioters were burning and looting businesses in an area where some of his friends worked.

As for being vigilante, the broad definition would include your neighbourhood watch ie. broadly: a self-appointed doer of justice

Finally, one white man shooting 3 white attackers is a racial issue? Why?
Posted by shadowminister, Thursday, 25 November 2021 10:58:22 AM
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Foxy,
Why do you say that Rittenhouse was defending property he was not familiar with?
It came out in evidence that his father has a car dealership in the area, surely he’d be familiar with his father’s business.
What evidence do you have that he was pretending to guard premises?/
The one that he wounded admitted in court that he was armed with a pistol and that he pointed it at Rittenhouse, thereby justifying his getting shot

Read/watch the evidence instead of relying on biased media, then admit that you were wrong.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 25 November 2021 11:44:23 AM
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Mike Rittenhouse, Kyle's father does not own a
car dealership in Kenosha. He has a record of
problems with alcohol and drugs, and of doing a
variety of jobs. The car dealership that Kyle
was supposedly "guarding" did not belong to his father.
And it's owners were of no relation to him.

Again - a vigilante who put himself in harm's way.
Which again sends a message that armed civilians can show up
in any town incite violence and then use the "danger" that
they created to justify shooting people in the street.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 25 November 2021 12:23:04 PM
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Video of the evening shows Rittenhouse putting out fires lighted by the looters and so-called protestors. I guess that stopping these people from destroying private property is a form of provocation...if you're completely clueless.

Video of the evening shows Rittenhouse running in the area of the violence calling out to people who might have needed first aid. A vigilante who wants to administer first aid? If you rooly trooly want it to be true, it is.

Foxy,

Do me a favour. In your very first post you asserted that the only shots fired were from Rittenhouse. Now that is patently false and the fact that at least one 'protestor' fired first is not in dispute. Its not part of competing narratives as you hope. Its an established fact.
So the favour? just admit that you at least got that wrong to demonstrate that you are capable of learning from the facts.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 25 November 2021 12:46:37 PM
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Foxy,
Seems that I got it wrong about the dealership, I was wrong.

Now it’s your turn.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 25 November 2021 1:14:49 PM
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Foxy,

There was no evidence that KR attempted at any point to "incite violence" and solid evidence that he tried to rescue people and property being violently attacked by the rioters.

It appears that your point of view is that:
1 Rioters should not be challenged in their destruction and murder
2 Simply standing in the way rioters is rightfully inciting them to violent assault you. (people have been viciously beaten for attempting to put out fires etc.)
3 Defending oneself against rioters is an offence.
Posted by shadowminister, Thursday, 25 November 2021 1:16:25 PM
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This is a tweet I came across.

"I have watched the whole Rittenhouse case. The Jury found him not guilty.

I didn't know that Kyle put out a dumpster fire that was being rolled down to a gas station to blow up, with people all around.

I didn't know that the Police were told to stand down as businesses were destroyed.

I didn't know that Kyles Dad, Grandma and Friends all lived in Kenosha, 20 minutes from where he resided with his Mom part time in Illinois.

I didn't know that Joseph Rosenbaum knocked him down twice and then attempted to kick him with lethal force to the head.
I didn't know that Huber had hit him in the head 2x with a skateboard.

I didn't know Gaige Grosskreutz, a felon in possession of firearm, aimed his gun at Kyle first, as he admitted on the stand.

I also didn't know that in the State of Wisconsin, it is legal for Kyle to have a gun, even at 17 (which was why the gun charge was dismissed).

I didn't know that Kyle did not cross state lines with a gun he wasn't supposed to have. The rightful gun owner did, as he was legally permitted to do.

I also didn't realize that Rosenbaum was a 5 time convicted
child rapist and that Huber was a 2 time convicted woman beater.

I didn't know that Grosskreutz was a convicted Burglar with an assault on his record also.

IF THE MEDIA DID THEIR JOB... we would ALL have known this!"

Even Foxy....perhaps.

Mike Cernovich responded...
"My mother-in-law is a normie Democrat, watches CNN and believes it.
Rittenhouse coverage was huge for her.
She can't believe how much CNN lied about the case. She's in actual shock.
Her awakening happened to millions."

But I know one who wasn't awakened.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 25 November 2021 4:42:10 PM
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Gentlemen,

This might help clarify things for you:

http://theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/kyle-rittenhouse-right-self-defence-role-model/620715/
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 25 November 2021 5:15:46 PM
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In what has been described as a "modern day lynching" three of the white good ole boys father and son Greg McMichael, 65, and Travis McMichael, 35, and their neighbour William "Roddie" Bryan 52, have been found guilty of the murder of black man Ahmaud Arbery who was gunned down whilst out jogging in his Georgia neighbourhood. In a vigilante act the three chased down the innocent Arbery in their pick-up trucks and then proceed to shoot Arbery in what they descried as an act of citizens arrest, in fact it was a murderous act against an innocent man. The three white men may have gotten away with deadly citizens arrest of an innocent black man in Georgia in 1961, but fortunately things have changed and all three were found guilty.

Some here want similar gun laws which would allow for free ranging vigilantes to roam at will, and take the law into their own hands. Australian must be ever on guard for those that seek this type of harm on our society.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 25 November 2021 5:54:47 PM
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Paul,
A great contribution, pity that it’s irrelevant.
Of course if the Greens ruled then this sort of thing would never happen, because it is Greens’ doctrine that one can never defend one’s self with a firearm, under their benign rule if one is about to be shot and one is fortunate enough to have a firearm then one must submit to being shot
‘Principle 7.
That personal protection should never be regarded as a genuine reason for owning possessing or USING a firearm “ (capitals added).
Now that makes sense does it not?

Foxy,
With that link you demonstrated just how out of touch you are.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 25 November 2021 7:34:00 PM
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Is Mise,

Understanding anything about me is beyond your
comprehension.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 25 November 2021 8:40:41 PM
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Foxy,
Don’t kid yourself, I progressed well beyond Psych.101.

What do you think of the Greens’ Principle 7 ?
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 25 November 2021 9:10:52 PM
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Is Rittenhouse a hero?
Depends on the point of view, I’d say that he is.

Hitler was a hero as was Goering.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 25 November 2021 9:25:36 PM
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hi issy,

I take it you support vigilantism, and the good ole boys above were doing no more than their civic duty. I'm comfortable with Greens policy, such a policy would see Ahmaud Arbery and thousands of other Americans alive today, instead gun toting nutjobs are allowed to roam free killing at will.

Is Ian Turnbull who shot and killed environmental officer Glen Turner another folk hero who was only performing his civic duty.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 26 November 2021 5:07:31 AM
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Its all very sad. This could have been treated as a learning moment for the likes of Foxy. Large numbers seem to be learning just how much their favoured media lie to them and acting accordingly.

But the likes of Foxy have chosen a side and they don't really care that that side habitually lies to them. Indeed the likes of Foxy crave the lies, want to be lied to.

There's a revolution going on in media where the legacy media is loosing its ability to suppress the truth and control the narrative. Independent media is finding ways to get the truth out. New sites like substack are giving the truth an outlet. But the legacy media relies on the likes of Foxy, who merely want to be told comforting falsehoods, to continue their narrative.

Foxy could have learned how to break that mould. But, unsurprisingly, she chose otherwise.

Yes, sad. I used to hope she was better than that.
Posted by mhaze, Friday, 26 November 2021 8:16:23 AM
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Paul thinks that three men using a gun to kill someone proves that we have to have laws to ban guns.

A few days ago a black supremist used a car to kill 6 and injury 40. So clearly we need laws to ban cars.

Yesterday, a man used a knife to severely injure someone in a road rage incident. So clearly we need laws to ban knives.

Last month a man used a pillow to kill a women in Britain. So clearly we need to ban all pillows.

Or we could act like adults and recognise that those who have nefarious intent will use whatever is available to achieve their aims.
Posted by mhaze, Friday, 26 November 2021 8:22:52 AM
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Paul,
So you support Principle 7 of the NSW Greens and believe that no one should ever use a firearm for self defence.
Does this include a farmer who is threatened by a scrub bull?

Regarding Rittenhouse, watch the videos then get back to us.

Foxy,
How are you with Principle 7?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 26 November 2021 8:24:31 AM
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Gentlemen:

This may help you guys to come to grips.
It works in my Storytime Sessions:

FIVE LISSONS IN LIFE FROM DR SEUSS:

1) Today you are You, that is truer than true.
There is no one alive who is Truer than You.

2) Why fit in when you were born to stand out?

3) You have brains in your head. You have feet in
your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.

4) Be who you are and say what you feel,
because those who mind don't matter
and those who matter don't mind.

5) Today I shall behave as if this day I will be remembered.

And a great big hug to you all.

Have a nice day.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 26 November 2021 8:43:43 AM
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Foxy,
So you read Dr Seuss; that figures.

Nothing to say on the Greens’ Principle 7?

Did you watch the Rittenburg videos?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 26 November 2021 8:52:38 AM
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Gentlemen,

The Washington Post is regarded as one of the leading
daily American newspapers. The Post has distinguished
itself through its political reporting. Here's a link
from the Post on Kyle Rittenhouse:

http://washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/11/19/kyle-rittenhouse-verdict-opinion-not-innocent-shootings/

I rest my case.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 26 November 2021 8:59:45 AM
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Foxy,

Good on you for resting your case, any case that’s so feeble should be shown consideration and looked after.

Do you not think that Hitler and Goering were heroic in their day, I do.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 26 November 2021 9:24:10 AM
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Is Mise,

Hitler would starve in a canned food factory,
unable to open a tin with a bayonet.

As for Goering?

He believed in scaring people into doing what
he wanted.

"Whenever I hear the word culture,
I reach for my revolver."
(Hermann Goering).

Goering also said:

"First shoot, then interrogate - I will protect you."

You said you thought these men were heroes in their day?

Each to their own.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 26 November 2021 10:21:40 AM
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Is Mise,

Are you seeking heroism on this forum?
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 26 November 2021 10:26:04 AM
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Foxy,
Hitler was decorated for bravery when he was a lowly Corporal in the German infantry in WW1, he was also wounded. He was a runner and carried messages to various parts of the front line, always in danger and frequently under fire; heroic in anyone’s book.
Goering was first an infantryman then became a pilot, he achieved Ace status and his claimed victories stood up very well underAllied scrutiny after the war.
He flew without a parachute as did most of the fighter pilots in WW1,

Both Hitler and Goering were brave men and they had proved it.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 26 November 2021 12:18:41 PM
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According to Foxy's link anyone going out to help the victims of the riot were foolish, as they were exposing themselves to brutal beatings and even murder at the hands of vengeful and armed rioters. If Kyle hadn't been armed he probably would have been killed.

What made KR a hero wasn't his shooting of violent rioters but rather the vitriolic and defamatory accusations levelled at him by the left whinge media, and the aggressive and unwarranted prosecution, and the complete failure to prosecute the rioter that pointed a pistol at KR.

If anything the blame should fall on the Mayor for stopping the police from doing their job.
Posted by shadowminister, Friday, 26 November 2021 1:41:59 PM
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In similar circumstances we are told by the Police and the Government to run from trouble, plainly this is what Rittenhouse did, it’s there on the videos exhibited in Court.
The video shews him being chased by rioters, falling down and being immediately and visciously attacked etc.
No wonder that the jury accepted his claim that he was in fear of his life.
Thankfully the media in this country is not so prone to outright lies and slander against someone on trial.
Perhaps ‘prone’ is the wrong word, fearful might be more apt; fearful of our tougher contempt laws and defamation laws.

A fine example of media bias has been the discussion about the Judge being hard on the Prosecutor, apparently when the Prosecutor attempted to introduce evidence that theJudge had ruled inadmissible, the Judge rebuked him and whilst so doing raised his voice. Tut!Tut!
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 26 November 2021 2:20:15 PM
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Hi Foxy and Issy,

Issy, doesn't have time to read Dr Seuss, too busy reading Dr Goebbels. Seems Issy has become a big fan of Hitler and Goring?

Issy, the Greens policy is people should not use the lame excuse that they require a firearm, just in case they need it for so called self protection some time in the future.

Why does the Shooters and Hooters Party want criminals to be armed. Fearless leader stated in 2019 he opposed ALL gun laws.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 26 November 2021 3:41:02 PM
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Paul,
It is undeniable that Hitler and Goering were brave men, it is alsb undeniable that they were extremely evil and in Goerings case also corrupt; but only an ignorant fool would deny their personal bravery.

Greens’ Principle 7 also says that a firearm should never be used for self defence, do you agree with this?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 26 November 2021 8:16:03 PM
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Issy,

Most important thing first, the rains back, all okay down there?
True, Hitler won the Iron Cross, in the days when it meant something, and Goring was a flying ace, both in WWI.

Principle 7 of NSW Greens policy on Firearms reads;

"7. That personal protection should never be regarded as a genuine reason for owning, possessing or using a firearm."

That is a policy I totally agree with. What you believe is people should posses a firearm in advance on the pretext its only for self protection. The notion that one uses a firearm and then claims its is only for self protection is erroneous.

Now I've given you my thoughts on the subject, how about you comment on the rights and wrongs of the Ahmaud Arbery case, and the actions of the 'good ole boys'. Suppose we gave everyone the right to own a firearm on the proviso its only to be used for "self protection", on the surface it actually sounds good, how do you avoid vigilantism and unjustified homicides. The evidence from America is the "right to bear arms" as a universal concept rather than reducing unjustified homicides actually increases them by a very large margin. Ian Turnbull is a home grown example of a man, probably not a criminal, who felt he had the right to shoot someone on the grounds of protecting his property rights. When property rights are allowed to supersede human rights then you're on very shaky ground, Dodge City here we come!
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 27 November 2021 5:06:45 AM
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BTW, Issy with firearms for self protection, the gun would need to be loaded at all times and in easy reach. It would not just be required in the home, but on your person at all times. AND its not just you on the bus with a loaded gun, never know when a murderous varmint is going to strike, all the other passengers have the same right, as does the driver. If some armed unsavoury critter should come on board with the intention of relieving the good folk of their valuables, do you believe the passengers should have the right to open up, all 50 of them, and the driver as well. In the supermarket where that annoying 'check-out-chick' works, should 97 year old grandpa be able to carry his loaded weapon just to teach here a lesson. should 5 year old 'Little Billy' be allowed to take his loaded weapon to school, just to teach the big bully from the third grade a lesson, next time he picks on him. one in all in, correct!
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 27 November 2021 5:25:40 AM
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Paul,

Your rambling illogical diatribe does nothing for your anti-gun crusade and just makes you sound like a childish retard.
Posted by shadowminister, Saturday, 27 November 2021 7:31:47 AM
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Paul,
The Arbery case was all wrong and was a blatant example of callous murder and the type of weapons used is completely irrelevant.
Back to Pr.7
A farmer’s wife alone on the property has the right to use a firearm to protect herself from intruders , the law says that she cannot own or possess a firearm for the purpose of self protection but if she possesses it for a legal reason, she may use it for self protection, the Greens, if they mean what they say in Pr.7 would require her to submit to theft, assault, rape or murder.
Now I don’t think for a moment that that is their intention which leads to the conclusion that those who wrote, adopted and promulgated Pr.7 were/are unthinking twits.

shadowminister,
Second that motion!
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 27 November 2021 8:33:02 AM
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sm,

Your insults mean nothing, and I wasn't addressing you of the rabid right, who supports calls for violence in Melbourne from those of your ilk, fascists, neo-Nazis, racists and crazy anti-vaxxers like yourself.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 27 November 2021 8:38:13 AM
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Hi Paul,

Here's why the Rittenhouse case has provoked such
deeply held emotion:

http://bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59348734

It seems that the sort of mentality that we encountered
while living and working and travelling in the US for
close to ten years has certainly gotten worse especially
in "Middle America." We did not want to raise our
children in that sort of environment. However judging
from some of the posts here - it appears that this sort
of mentality also exists in this country as well.
Fortunately our population is smaller and hopefully there's less
of those kind of people here.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 27 November 2021 12:13:14 PM
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Foxy,
This sort of mentality certainly does exist in this country, in this country you are innocent until proven guilty and in NSW the onus of proof is upon the prosecution to prove that if you act in self defence that you did not fear for your life.
The State must prove you guilty, you do not have to prove your innocence.

Have you looked at the videos yet?
Have you seen Rittenhouse attempt to flee?
Have you seen him stumble and fall?
Have you seen him bashed?

Do watch them and then come back and tell us how he would not fear for his life?
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 27 November 2021 1:00:36 PM
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Issy

Can you tell us how would weapons for self defence work? Loaded guns lying around the house at the ready. Would folks carry weapons on their person in public? What percentage of the public would be armed?
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 27 November 2021 2:04:48 PM
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Pauliar,

You moronic twat. This is a commentary on the US, not Aus.

I am none of the things you have called me and so I guess the truce is over.

The violent anti-vaxxers are from the unions or pedogreen/ labor ie your side of politics.

Pull your head out of your arse and pay attention.
Posted by shadowminister, Saturday, 27 November 2021 2:14:46 PM
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Foxy, Your attitudes in the last post is irrational and emotional. Learn to be corrected by facts rather than hold to self pride by becoming like the American left, where facts do not matter.
Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 27 November 2021 3:47:54 PM
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Paul,
If living in the country then self defence can occur when out doing the odd job, like repairing a fence damaged by the passage of a scrub bull.
Whilst armed with the trusty rifle because one is hunting wild pigs then one is suddenly attacked by said scrub bull.
Should one use one’s rifle in self defence?
Or adhere to the Greens’ Pr.7?

Up in the house the wife has no trouble in reaching a firearm for selt defence, she unlocks her gun safe with lightening speed, ditto the seperate ammo box, loads and is ready to face any threat.
If the Greens had their way though she’d be slowed down a bit because they want combination locks in the bush and the ammo box in a seperate room.

Wonder what genius thought that up?
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 27 November 2021 4:25:00 PM
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Having grown up and worked farms for 48 years of my life most of the use of guns were used on snakes around the home and wild dogs attacking stock. There is no other waty of stopping wild dogs in the act.
Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 27 November 2021 4:46:59 PM
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shonkyminister,

Your provocation cannot go unchallenged, you stuck your nose in when Is Mise raised a question concerning NSW Greens firearms policy I responded to Issy, you then referred to me as a "childish retard". Not content you then referred to me as "Pauliar, You moronic twat". I only responded to your provocation. WAR!
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 27 November 2021 4:52:33 PM
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Here is a commentary from the New Yorker:

http://newyorker.com/magazine/2021/07/05/kylr-rittenhouse-american-vigilante
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 27 November 2021 5:31:53 PM
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Sorry. I mistyped.

Here's the link again:

http://newyorker/magazine/2021/07/05/kyle-rittenhouse-american-vigilante
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 27 November 2021 5:36:25 PM
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last try:

http://newyorker.com/magazine/2021/07/05/kyle-rittenhouse-american-vigilante
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 27 November 2021 5:40:10 PM
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Foxy Very interesting, but have you watched the videos yet?
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 27 November 2021 7:15:04 PM
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Issy, you haven't answered re; my concerns about self defence. After all you raised it in the first place, despite what some infantile closet Nazi has to say.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 27 November 2021 8:35:46 PM
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Paul,
And you haven’t answered mine re. Principle 7 of the Greens’.

The OP raised the question of self defence, the whole thing is about self defence.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 27 November 2021 9:12:25 PM
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Thank you Foxy, for finding the article from the New Yorker. I agree that he was reckless even going to the event. I just don't think that anyone loses their right to self defence, just because they were stupid.

In any case,the people who set a dumpster on fire and rolled it towards a service station are far more reckless. I hope they get charged.
Posted by benk, Saturday, 27 November 2021 10:18:17 PM
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That is a cop out Issy I answered your question on p7.

Principle 7 of NSW Greens policy on Firearms reads;

"7. That personal protection should never be regarded as a genuine reason for owning, possessing or using a firearm."

That is a policy I totally agree with. What you believe is people should posses a firearm in advance on the pretext its only for self protection. The notion that one uses a firearm and then claims its is only for self protection is erroneous.

For my trouble I copped a serve from sh!thouseminister, now how about you answer my question.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 28 November 2021 5:40:03 AM
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Hi Foxy,

This is what we should fear for our own country.

" But on August 25th, as the city braced for a third night of protests in the wake of Blake’s shooting, Mathewson, who is a private investigator, posted a call for “Armed Citizens to Protect our Lives and Property.” He invited “patriots” to meet him at the courthouse at 6 p.m., to defend Kenosha from “evil thugs.”

Thanks for the link.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 28 November 2021 6:20:34 AM
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Compare the jury who cleared Rittenhouse with the ignorant Leftist thugs in Australia, who jailed an innocent George Pell for 400 days.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 28 November 2021 6:48:41 AM
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Toss in the sanctimonious fascism of cricket administrators who have ruined the career and private life of Tim Paine for something really petty and unremarked done four years ago, which has sweet FA to do with cricket or the hoi polloi and nothing-better-to-think about witchhunters.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 28 November 2021 7:01:43 AM
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Paul,
You didn’t answer the question at all; the question was about the particular part of Principle 7 which says a firearm should never be used for self protection.
If you agree with Pr. 7 in its entirety then you are trying to appear as moronic as the person/s who thought it up.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 28 November 2021 8:37:58 AM
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Foxy,
I just compared the New Yorker article with the videos and the article bears out Rittevnhouse’s claim to have acted in self defence.
Wheather he’s should have been there is irrelevant to this claim, the fact is that he was attacked and without provocation, that his first attacker was apparently of diminished responsibility is also irrelevant, there is no way that Rittenhouse could have known his attackers mental state.
Incidentally provocation is not usually considered justification for an illegal action
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 28 November 2021 8:58:45 AM
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Gentlemen,

I have nothing more to say on this matter.

I expected for us to have our different opinions.
What I did not expect was to be attacked for mine.

That is unfortunate because it discourages me from
any further contributions on this subject.

I see no point in continuing to be part of this discussion.

I welcome disagreement - but certainly not personal insults.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 28 November 2021 9:13:18 AM
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Dear Paul,

Thank You for reading the link I cited.

I do fear for this sort of situation in our country.
Thankfully our gun laws are stronger - thus far
and hopefully will remain so.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 28 November 2021 9:15:35 AM
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Foxy,
You might like to know that open carry of long arms is not illegal under our laws and is necessary in some situations.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 28 November 2021 9:30:20 AM
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Twelve ordinary people had the intelligence and integrity to ignore the baying of the Leftist mob, the MSM's misreporting, the prosecution's misconduct, and acquitted Rittenhouse purely on evidence, as they are required to do by law.

No wonder the Loony Left is so upset
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 28 November 2021 9:33:13 AM
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The United States has a deeply flawed political system
with an insane over-reaching extremist element and courts
that are completely loony.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 28 November 2021 10:08:41 AM
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And apparently loony jury’s, especially those that deliberate for three days before reaching a verdict; a verdict that some cannot understand despite all the evidence.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 28 November 2021 10:43:27 AM
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Not all the evidence was allowed to be presented.
The judge with a reputation for being consistently
on the side of the defense blocked relevant pieces
of evidence for the jury to assess for themselves.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 28 November 2021 11:00:09 AM
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The United States has a deeply flawed political system
Foxy,
Don't blame politics when morons with the help of the insane Left are getting power they can't control !
It's that system not the political one !
Posted by individual, Sunday, 28 November 2021 11:20:20 AM
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The media that falsely claimed that Rittenhouse's "victims" were black also failed to report that the driver who ploughed through a Christmas parade in Wisconsin, now charged with 6 counts of deliberate homicide, is a BLACK supporter of BLM, whose victims were all WHITE.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 28 November 2021 1:10:11 PM
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Another sign of crisis in the West has been the displaying of a painting depicting George Floyd as Jesus Christ - in a CATHOLIC university in Washington DC!
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 28 November 2021 1:13:31 PM
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The above was supposed to be in Western Civilisation in Crisis, but both topics support the presence of a crisis.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 28 November 2021 1:18:44 PM
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Foxy
What relevant evidence was excluded?
The videos were shown in court, the jurors were able to see Rittenhouse running away from trouble, they were able to see him attacked again and again, perhaps they thought that if in the same situation that they may have feared for their lives.

If the judge erred then the State can appeal based on his bias, don’t think that they will.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 28 November 2021 2:01:53 PM
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So Issy, although I have answered your question re NSW Greens P7, your response is to say "If you agree with Pr. 7 in its entirety then you are trying to appear as moronic as the person/s who thought it up."

Again I say; That is a policy I totally agree with. What you believe is people should posses a firearm in advance on the pretext its only for self protection. The notion that one uses a firearm and then claims its is only for self protection is erroneous.

Now answer this; Can you tell us how would weapons for self defence work? Loaded guns lying around the house at the ready. Would folks carry weapons on their person in public? What percentage of the public would be armed?

Very simple questions, do you have the answers.

Hi Foxy,

Our gun laws are not as safe as we think. The pro gun lobby through their political arm take every opportunity to white ant our robust gun laws. The Shooters Party are radical right-wing, brothers in arms with One Nation. The front group SSAA is controlled and financed by the powerful far right American organisation the NRA.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 28 November 2021 3:56:24 PM
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Paul,
So you agree with the mad Greens that a firearm should never be used for self defence, the question then arises; why do you think that the courts have been wrong to accept the using of a firearm for such defence to have been lawful and theState, in some cases not even prosecuting?
http://www.watoday.com.au or Google “Elderly man who shot home intruder will not be charged”
Do you think that the old gent was not justified in protecting his sick wife?

Again you state that our gun laws are being watered down, how and when?

You also trot out your old furphy (polite name) that the SSAA is controlled by the US NRA, in all the times you’ve trotted out that rot you’ve been challenged to give evidence, so far you have failed to do so; I won’t hold my breath this time either.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 28 November 2021 6:33:03 PM
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