Andrews looks to be in big trouble. Not only does he have the members of the CFMEW gunning for him, but it appears as if Gaia herself has him on her hit list.

Victorians might be wise to get rid of him quickly, before Gaia's anger gets them along with him.

Alas, Gaia favours tyrant regimes over dissenters - See what happened to those who disagreed with Moses in Numbers Chapter 16, culminating in verse 32:

"and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them and their households, and all those associated with Korah, together with their possessions"

Rubber bullets in Australia for gods sake. Fired not at attackers but at people running away.

Am I the only one who can see a very real similarity of the black clad Victorian police, & the Nazi Brownshirts?

Hassy, these violent riots in Victoria are not legitimate protests. They are not members of the CFMEU, but rather far right extremists encouraged by certain LNP politicians and the right wing media. I don't condone violence at any time, and I support peoples right to legitimately protest.

What should be the focus of protest is the shambolic behaviour of the Berejiklian government in NSW which has led to hundreds dead, and thousands infected by the Gladys virus. You and I can give thanks to Annastacia Palaszczuk and her government for their great efforts in keeping the Gladys virus out of Queensland so far.

Paul don't kid yourself.
Even in QLD, I've got members of my own family,
Nurses who were on 3500 a week who've already quit their professions.
I know of primary school principals who attended protests in Brisbane and who are going quit with a vaccine mandate.

There were doctors, nurses and teachers at that Melbourne rally.
My girlfriend watched the entire live stream yesterday.

People are there simply because the don't want this vaccine;
- And who were never anti-vaxxers;

STOP using your denigrating, discriminatory BS attitute to treat these people as LESS THAN CITIZENS.

Don't you understand democracy you damn communist?
THEY ARE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY
Stop calling them extremists;

Even if some are, they're no worse than your Greens left wing extremists
But there's a difference, this lot aren't paid like the left does with it's co-ordinated Getup supporters.

The Andrews gang, shocked when their own mob turns on them, calls the socialist union members "far right", and the far left believes it. There is little hope for Victoria or Victorians.

Reported this morning "This time, the protests were mostly peaceful, but it was the police who turned ugly, deploying tear gas, rubber bullets, armoured personnel carriers, and paramilitary riot police."

Foiled in his attempt to do business with Communist China, Andrews is trying out the Communists' policing methods. The man is a brute, using brutish methods in what is supposed to be part of a democracy, but no longer is. Where the bloody hell is the opposition? Is there an opposition?

Suggested by one commentator this morning: the earthquake could have been Divine Retribution for Andrew's "autocratic, authoritarian and disproportionate" reaction to everything, including the call for a return to democracy.

The same commentator likens the police action on the streets of Melbourne with 1970s Belfast.

Ttbn your extreme un-Australian views are well known on the Forum. There were few if any CFMEU members there, just you radical Nazi types.

AC you called for the drunken mob to "give them hell" so your fellow Nazis pissed on the War Memorial and chucked beer bottles at the coppers. Is that your idea of giving them hell?

AC. I simply don't believe that doctors, nurses and teachers, however exhausted and frustrated, would dress in high-vis and piss on the Shrine of Remembrance. It doesn't pass the pub test, even a pub full of construction workers.

Ttbn. It's much more likely that the earthquake was targeting the anti-vaxxer demonstrators. They are the ones God is likely to be mad with. After all he inspired all those scientists to develop vaccines! He must get really tired of people arriving at the Pearly Gates after dying of Covid. 'God, I prayed to you. Why didn't you save me?' 'Well, the rules for surviving pandemics, isolation and masks, have been known for thousands of years, and now I've been sending vaccines to save you, why did you reject my help?'

I wonder how many of the protestors were vaccinated themselves as children? How many have their own children vaccinated? Do they keep up their vaccinations for tetanus, a risk in the construction industry?

I guess Paul405 would also say that the guy that committed suicide on the building site is also Un-Australian. Well I dunno what to say.

According to Paul405- The guy is probably also a fascist nazi.

It's sad that they have brought these skilled artisans so low.

Now let's see if I've got this straight.

* It is asserted that there were few/no CFMEU members at the protest - just Nazis.

* The Victorian government has closed the construction industry to punish construction workers for protesting.

So close the construction industry to punish the workers for being at the protest when they weren't at the protest.

I suspect the progressive left wing here won't fathom the doublethink there.

In the late 19th early 20th centuries, a favourite tactic of bosses/factory owners/ruling class was to punish workers via lockouts. That is, close the workplace and starve the workers into obedience by depriving them of paid employment.

An early aim of the labour movements around the world was to defeat this tactic via legislation. They have been largely successful and you rarely here of it these days.

Hold my beer says Chairman Dan. So to punish construction workers for being insufficiently obedient to the dictates of the state, Andrews capriciously and unilaterally closes the entire industry. Bugger the workers. Bugger the state economy. Obey or suffer.

Unless the workers kowtow to the demands of Dan, they will remain unemployed and unemployable, financially ruined, their families unsure where the next meal will come from.

In the final pages of the book 'Animal Farm' the new ruling class pigs become indistinguishable from the old ruling class humans.
And now the great socialist leaders are indistinguishable from the ruling elite of the 19th century.

AC you called for the drunken mob to "give them hell" so your fellow Nazis pissed on the War Memorial and chucked beer bottles at the coppers. Is that your idea of giving them hell?

They're not Nazis, just regular people who finally got fed up.
I've told you all before if you back someone into a corner, eventually they lash out.

Pissing of the memorial
- Well it's certainly not a pretty aspect of what happened.
If they were boxed in and had nowhere else to go I can probably cut them some slack.
Drinking too, well I guess there were always going to be a few that brought a few along.
These people are more or less voicing an opinion that they don't care anymore, so I guess having a drink in public goes with the general 'not caring anymore' attitude of the day.
Hurling beers at the cops, well the cops were both prepared and intended doing worse to some of them.
I've seen some of the footage. Women shoved to the ground and dragged for no reason, cops bashing people, its not pretty.
I saw a guy on the ground just covered in blood and a big chunk out of his head screaming that the round he just copped cracked his skull.
Don't know if it true or what but I also heard he later died.

I told you yesterday I knew people would end up harmed.
But in my opinion the government created the mess when it failed in quarantine;
And they went to far with mandatory vaccinations and jabbing the kids.
I think a point was made, the Shrine of rememberance will be remembered for this now instead, and not so easily forgotten.
I wouldn't want anyone else to go out and protest anymore now.
They'll only get hurt, a points been made, perhaps not big enough.
The government and police will think they won.

AC. I simply don't believe that doctors, nurses and teachers, however exhausted and frustrated, would dress in high-vis and piss on the Shrine of Remembrance. It doesn't pass the pub test, even a pub full of construction workers.

I didn't watch the lives streams, I only know what I was told.
I did catch a few videos on facebook, twitter and telegram others sent me, and a few of the news highlights, but I didn't watch all the events unfold.

I was told that by my girlfriend who watched it all - over 6 hrs live stream - say there were those people in attendance, maybe the live streamers asked what people did for a job as they walked about and talked to everyone, I'm not sure.

Cossomby you seem confused? This Covid treatment is not any sort of vaccination as it was. It is an artificial DNA treatment and has been used for less that two years, typically vaccines get tested for five times as long. Dosen't stop you getting the virus or passing it on.
I would also point out there is zero sense from these medical idiots. No provision to give people who have caught Covid and are now immune. I suppose there will be a pile on of the leftie idiots saying only Pfizer and the other crooks can get us salvation?

The protest is being described as "anti-vaccine", but is it?

Do we know for a fact that [most of] the protesters are unvaccinated (or do not want to be vaccinated)?

The protest is against government ordering us around, including by telling us to get vaccinated, which is insulting, not necessarily against the vaccine itself:

We all know about the COVID plague and we are not idiots: nobody wants to get it and nobody wants to give it to others, including their own loved ones. Why would anyone possibly want to not be vaccinated, other than in revenge for government's orders and insults?

Another reason for not getting vaccinated, which I only heard about an hour ago, is that some believe that the vaccines that government supplies contain computer micro-chips. This is highly unlikely and I am sure that a simple blood test could refute it (if that happened then surely by now pathological staff which take blood-tests for other reasons would have observed it quite often through their microscopes), but why are we prevented from purchasing/importing our own supply of vaccine rather that having to accept it from the dirty hands of government which could theoretically tamper with it?

It would be most interesting to count the people who were persuaded by government to get vaccinated as opposed to those who would otherwise get vaccinated happily but chose not to BECAUSE of government. I think the latter number is bigger.

Paul,

You bellow: "Ttbn your extreme un-Australian views are well known on the Forum."

Who, apart from you "knows" that. What makes my views 'un-Australian'?

ttbn you agreed with AC and his call for rioters to "go get em", then those rioters pissed on the War Memorial, smashing beer bottles said the WM person. I called you out as Un-Australian for condoning that action. Up your ally, rioters attacked and spat on nurses working at a vaxx clinic. But they were vaxxing refugees, migrants and aborigines. You still claim they are not like you, well I disagree!

Answer the question, Paul. Who apart from you thinks that I am un-Australian? Nobody else has called me that. Perhaps you need to think before you spill your guts.

I agreed with the demonstration, not what a few individuals did. As usual, the appalling behaviour of a few is used to cover up the fact that LABOR SUPPORTERS have had enough of Andrews. Your arguments are so weak, that you always need to bring out the old 'Nazi' chestnut.

If you are looking for "un-Australians", look no further than Dan (Chinaman) Andrews and his blackshirt (same colour as the SS) goons, that Commissioner Patton has expressed his pride in, after they had hurled a 70 year old woman to the ground and pepper sprayed her.

And, who the hell did I claim are not like me? I don't recall making any claims, or comparing myself with anyone. You really should stop drinking.

When Australian police forces switched to black uniforms, I thought, 'uh oh'. Black uniforms are more menacing than blue or any of the other wishy washy colours. That's why the Schutzstaffel were decked out in them by the Nazis, and Mussolini's Camicia Nere strutted around in black shirts.

Fear is the key in Australia these days. The SA force and their Commissioner seem OK. But, if we had the same situation that exists in the other states, I wouldn't trust them. I once respected Australian police. Not any more. I have never respected politicians, so no change there.

Forget the Nazis. Even The Age reported that 90% of the protesters were tradies and union members.

Hey Yuyutsu,
"The protest is being described as "anti-vaccine", but is it?"

I think people are in attendance for a range of different reasons;
- But I'm not 100% sure.

- Some are construction workers
- Some are people from other professions
- Some are sick of being out of work entirely
- Some are just sick of lockdowns and restrictions
- Some want to make a stand against vaccine mandates
- Some draw a line with jabbing the kids
- Some just hate the government and want to cause unrest

Despite them being there for different reasons,
- I think the vast majority are there because of genuine concerns.
- And they're exercising a right to stand against government, who they think has gone too far, in the things they hold issue with.
- They're willing to make a stand together for all the things they disagree with and think is unfair.

Given all the impositions this pandemic has created;
- If it wasn't for the 'spread virus' aspect they would have every right to be going off under the circumstances, all things given.

Look at the left, they do this same stuff over some woman somewhere accusing some bloke of being a misogynist.
- And didn't Andrew's allow a Black Lives Matters march to occur during the pandemic anyway I heard?

Of course you're Aussie ttbn,
- Only Aussies use phrases like 'spill your guts'

Today, Melbourne was Police State everywhere.
Thousands of cops and cars, and media blackout.

I'm told tomorrow is meant to be the big one.
Rally posts are going out now, with location undisclosed until an hour beforehand.
This will be nurses, teachers, the whole bang lot.
Twitter has lit up in the last hour with a plethora of vids of whats been happening;
(What police have been doing I guess) and I'm told some of the stuff is quite sickening.

I'm not going to openly support tomorrows protest, like I did yesterday.
More people might get hurt than anything gained, so I don't really know or have an opinion on it.
And I don't want to get myself into trouble just for having opinion.
I might be accused of inciting domestic terrorism or who knows what these days.
I'm assuming if it does go down, cops might crack down hard and it could get ugly and a lot more people might get hurt tomorrow, I'd hate to think of genuine protesters there for the right reasons being harmed by cops gone wild.

People will generally obey laws and instructions if they see the point in those laws and instructions. Covid cases are still occurring, even increasing, despite the police state tactics in Victoria. The tide might be turning, particularly in Andrew's own electoral base.

AC and ttbn,

I was a bit harsh on you guys with this, but you did make a fundamental Trump like mistake with a call of "go get em". That is so open ended that whatever protesters/rioters do you appear to support it. I always support the cause, and don't put my faith in the unknown. If these guys had a scintilla of support to begin with they lost it by pissing on the war memorial and spitting on nurses. An effective protest has to be organised with leadership, and above all peaceful. What I seen was a undisciplined mob running through the streets. The Andrews haters seen this as a political opportunity to bucket on the Victorian Premier, but it appears to have backfired. BTW Joe Public will always choose his health over your right to not be vaxxed, and if it means black hooded coppers holding you down while someone jabs you like pin cushion, so it will be.

What is a protest other than an expression of people being fed up?
What is the aim of a protest, when the left block streets and bridges, chain themselves to things, lay in the road, chant mindless rhymes over and over, and wreck up the place.
Is it not to meant to cause disruption Paul1405?

A remember a climate change protest not long back, where the protesters left more garbage all over the place than Greta Thunberg has in her car.

I also remember not so long back during the pandemic University's organising protests over funding cuts, and it was actually paid members of faculty who study protests who were organising them.

Why does a protest have to be planned and organised?
University planned protests, as opposed to Grassroots community protests; brought by regular people in the workforce.
- Where people are just fed up and not going to take it anymore.

Do you want the construction workers to act more like Uni students?
Is that the problem Paul? Lol
How much time have you spent with construction workers?
Do you think they're cut from the same cloth as Uni students?

The University students wouldn't have a University at all if it wasn't for much harder construction workers building it, than the whiny softer 'tantrum-protesting' of University staff and students.
If they were asked to wheelbarrow a load of bricks somewhere, they'd hold a protest about it instead.

Is anyone who doesn't go to university, or who doesn't protest mind numbing chants like 10 years olds and lay in the road not worthy of protesting?
Does one need to first attain University Diploma in protesting before one is permitted to protest Paul1405?

I wonder what the day will bring in Melbourne?

"I always support the cause, and don't put my faith in the unknown."
Well I'm sure you know the vaccines arent exactly safe, a lot of unknowns there mate;
- But your happy for black hooded cops to hold me down to jab me with it?

You saying that scenario isn't worth a protest but shutting down the local community and blocking streets to accuse someone of misogyny or whinge about the climate is?

"I always support the cause.." writes Paul.

And if that means simultaneously believing two contradictory things (ie that there were no/few construction workers at the original protest but construction workers need to be chastised and penalised for being at the protest) then, that's just fine with the leftist progressives.

They've spent their entire lives practising doublethink.

BTW how did Australia get to this point?.... http://twitter.com/_Dee_1982/status/1440715488821055489

Paul,

What cause? What "unknown" are you referring to? What is it that you don't know?

As usual, you are harping on a minority of pissers and spitters to drag down the majority, which does have a "cause." I suppose it could be that Green-minority mindset you have. Was the "undisciplined mob" Andrews' blackshirts, knocking people down, even old ladies, and, like rampart tomcats, spraying them with stinging liquid?

You can't talk your way out of your attacks on posters you think should "piss off" and let you trumpet whatever mad idea comes into your head. Your best tactic is still to call anyone with whom you disagree a Nazi , even when comments like "black hooded coppers holding you down while someone jabs you like pin cushion, so it will be" make it pretty clear who the OLO Nazi really is.

Not that it's any of your business, nor is it in any way taking issue with people whose right it is not to be vaccinated, but my Medicare certificate shows that I had my vaccination jabs on 17/4/21 and 4/6/21

Well calling me a communist is acceptable, but calling others a Nazi is unacceptable. As for your "piss off" it was in response to you putting yourself up as Forum arbitrator. As for this topic you and others are not concerned about health or rights, it a political agenda to attack the hated one Andrews

The violent protesters that took over Melbourne
this week and brought the city to a standstill
lost most people's support for their cause. The
Victorian government had warned the construction
industry which accounts for 13% of new COVID-19
cases in an outbreak that's growing faster than
that in NSW.

The protesters have a choice - get vaccinated and
go back to work or don't get vaccinated and lose
your job. Putting others at risk is not an option.
Both the Premier and the Opposition are united in
this matter. They are not allowing a small minority
to dictate the health and well being of the majority.

Also their behaviour at the Shrine was disgraceful.
They deserved everything they got and more. We have
laws that we're all supposed to abide by - if you
break those laws there are consequences.

I wonder if these protesters have families and kids
and whether their kids have had all the childhood
jabs that they should have had? Hypocrites!

Put these people in jail and give them the jab -
for all our sakes!

Hi Foxy,

I agree this is not a genuine health issue or a rights issue. The Andrews haters see it as a political oppertunity. A couple of rats from the CFMEU backed up by the far right mob. The old my enemies enermy is my friend.

Pissing on a war memorial, spitting on nurses, why not bash a couple of old pensioners if they wanted public support.

BTW I had a lot to do with the Union in my working life. I called more than one official a Nazi. AC in my day it was the BLF that was Nazi Big Norm what a dog. John Halfpenny AMWU a genuine Commo and decent bloke.

Hi Paul,

It's a shame that a small minority give everyone
else a bad name.

Well calling me a communist is acceptable, but calling others a Nazi is unacceptable. As for your "piss off" it was in response to you putting yourself up as Forum arbitrator. As for this topic you and others are not concerned about health or rights, it a political agenda to attack the hated one Andrews
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 24 September 2021 9:36:31

Didn't you notice that I decided that, despite your dubbing of everyone Nazis, your comment about holding people down to vaccinate them made you look like the resident Nazi. Nazi/Communist -all the same sort of vermin.

You don't seem able to elaborate on your accusation that I want to be an arbitrator. I don't. Commenting on your wild ravings is disagreement, not arbitration. I know you think that nobody should disagree with you, but tough titty on that one. Just about everyone usually disagrees with you.

Dear Foxy,

«I wonder if these protesters have families and kids
and whether their kids have had all the childhood
jabs that they should have had? Hypocrites!»

But have you any information that the protesters and/or their families are any different than the rest of us in regards to vaccination?

While by themselves the vaccines are excellent and I think that everyone ought to be enthusiastic to get vaccinated, the protests are not against the vaccine, but against government insults, ordering us to take it from their dirty hands. Just as the protesters cannot be labelled "anti-vaccine", so also government cannot call itself "pro-vaccine" when it was themselves who denied us the freedom to obtain our own COVID vaccines to begin with!

True heroes do not infect their families and others: a true hero is s/he who gets vaccinated underground, covertly having the vaccine in their arms without registering it with government, even if they lose their jobs as a result. I encourage the protesters to do just that, but can you tell that this is not the case already?

From a few videos taken by bystanders of the action in Melbourne, & circulated on the net, a great deal of the violence, all on these videos, was initiated by power mad vicious cops, acting like thugs of the highest order.

No one could be more anti protest marches, particularly noisy violent protests than me, but after seeing those cops taking the knee to the BLM equally illegal protests, then seeing the vicious reaction to these with a genuine complaint against Dictator Dan & his stupidity & blatant revenge actions, I find it hard to believe this is Australia.

These cops want to be very careful. Their behavior in Melbourne will turn the public against them so completely, they will feel like they just landed in Chicago. Policing could become a much less pleasant activity.

Obviously these videos are a snapshot in time. There is no indication of what may have led to the vicious action of the cops, who may have been reacting to something, although throwing an old lady to the ground, & pepper spraying her is not a suitable response to anything she could have done.

Victoria needs to get rid of Dictator Dan, & the number of cops shown to be more thug than law enforcement officer, if it is ever to return to the Australia we have always known.

ttbn, poor comprehension, black hooded coppers and jabs in arms was clearly an observation not something I said I agreed with. Unlike your enthusiastic support for pissers and spitters. You tell others their topics and posts are stuiped. I read a respected conservative poster calling you extreme. You definately are a member of the half-a-percent far right minority, makes you un-Australian.

mhaze.

*…BTW how did Australia get to this point?…*

This is how: (NSW).

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/recruitment/the_training/associate_degree_in_policing_practice/cost_of_study

Effectively, it is rule by University student!

For $20k deferred, or $17k up front, you too can become a keeper of the peace.

Dan

Well my two cent for what it is worth.

Firstly I am fully vaccinated and absolutely support most efforts to get as many people vaccinated as possible. I feel I know enough about Covid to support mandatory vaccination among heath workers, particularly those in aged care.

Secondly I remain a supporter of Andrew's leadership through the pandemic. However I think he has gotten it wrong on this one.

Mandating vaccines for the building industry and most other sectors is problematic for me. It is a medical procedure however innocuous, so to speak, some consider the jab to be.

I deem those who have decided not to vaccinate for whatever reason to be generally selfish and lacking in the kind of respect for their community that we would hope for all our fellow citizens. However I will defend their right to make that choice.

A significant proportion of the cases from construction sites in Melbourne came from the one project. To have shut down the entire industry shifts the consequences on to it all, even those 50% who have done the right thing.

NSW shuttered its construction sector to a greater degree than that in Victoria without the kind of back lash we are seeing here. They also mandated vaccines but with the exemption to those who were prepared to have a Covid test every 3 days. I feel this would have taken much of the sting out of the protests.

Those who originally gathered at the CFMEU offices were indeed primarily construction workers. That other players joined them before the most serious confrontations is a given however this shouldn't allow the concerns of those workers to be unanswered.

It is the same at the Shrine. Many of those there had genuine reasons for protesting. While I do not agree with the stance of many I understand why they were there. Once again the were bad actors within their ranks as there are within the police, however on the whole the Shrine protest was done peacefully and respectfully.

I agree fully with Melbourne's Lord Mayor
Sally Capp who said:

"It is beyond disappointing and completely disgusting
that rioters would target people who are frontline
workers, health care workers, doing their best to
help us get out of this situation we're in."

"It doesn't make sense. I call them rioters because
there really is nothing about this that is a protest.
There is no cause. This is about self interest. It's
about causing as much disruption and destruction as
possible."

Two health clinics in Melbourne's CBD were forced to
close after their workers were subjected to physical
and verbal abuse from protesters.

The Melbourne Town Hall vaccination centre (normally
packed) and a drop-in health clinic for people
experiencing homelessness have shut for four days.

Staff were spat on and had liquid thrown on them.

No sympathy from me for this behaviour.

Paul, You "read a respected conservative poster calling (me) extreme", did you diddums? Who was this rare "conservative" you deem to be respected?

ttbn, you replied to the "extreme" comment so you must know who I am refering to.

"I replied to the "extreme" comment so you must know who I am refering to." What on earth are you talking about. I replied, so I must know who this person you can’t name is! You don't know either. You make things up as you go along. You have no credibility. Goodbye.

CSLewis wrote: “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

Short memory ttbn, it must come with age, they used to call it dotty.

"Hey, ttbn and Dan. I know you guys have some extreme views"
Posted by Chris Lewis, Wednesday, 22 September 2021 8:54:28 AM

"Chris Lewis, What criteria do you use to deem other people’s views as “extreme”?
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 22 September 2021 10:54:38 AM

Yep, defiantly an EXTREMISTS.

Dear Foxy,

I agree just as it was 'beyond disappointing and completely disgusting that' police would target a peacefully protesting 70 year old woman shoving her violently to the ground and having two officers both spray directly into her face a chemical agent designed to inflict prolong pain and suffering.

There are bad eggs on both sides of this which detract from the efforts and stances of the vast majority.

I do think there are people with legitimate concerns about mandatory vaccinations and I defend their right to protest about them just as I defended the rights of BLM protestors.

To have a police force which is not required at this stage to be fully vaccinated quelling those who are protesting the full vaccination requirement to work in the building industry doesn't pass any pub test that I know of.

I have to agree with you there Steele, people's right to genuinely protest. Many were not genuine, using it as a political attack wanting confrontation. Those with the beer seemed to be that type. As for the 70 year old woman, on the face of it, coppers should be charged.

Chris Lewis will be stunned to know that he is 'conservative'. Chris is one of the few old-style lefties who can actually be talked to. Only a moron would call him conservative, and Paul 1405 is certainly a moron.

"No sympathy from me for this behaviour."

Well I guess I'm just more empathetic that others. I do have sympathy for these people....

I sympathise with those who have been locked out of their job and livelihood by a vicious government.

I sympathise with those who have been targeted for unreasonable and undue force by the police force (eg http://au.news.yahoo.com/blood-everywhere-man-knocked-unconscious-in-violent-police-arrest-092519597.html)

I sympathise with those who mistakenly believed we still lived in a liberal democracy and have suffered a rude awakening.

oh, and I sympathise with those who have been hoodwinked by the government/media/health 'experts' into believing that the unvaccinated are somehow threat to the vaccinated. They've lost all sense of proportion and will never understand it. We used to enforce segregation on the 'unclean' and now preen ourselves how much more sophisticated we are than those foolish ancients. But alas the primitive instincts run deep.

There's been a great line from Clive James..."'The problem with Australians is not that so many of them are descended from convicts but that so many are descended from prison officers.'"

We've seen that mindset here with the rush to enforce whatever new daft rule the government conjures and the sycophants desperate to just follow the rules.

But I DON'T empathise with people who agonised for months as to whether to get the vaccine, then having made the choice demand that all others be forced, in goal if needs by, to make a similar choice. There's nothing quite so fundamentalist as a convert.


Meanwhile Melbourne has become the lockdown capital of the world even as its case numbers continue to explode.

This moron looks at something someone says; even reproduces it, but still doesn't understand it. Can't spell. Can't think. Probably can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

ttbn Chris is a well respected conservative forum member. If he says you are EXTREME well what does that tell you.

Perhaps we should be putting Victorians, not their premier, under the microscope. It is amazing - beyond belief if we were not actually witnessing it - that the draconian lockdowns and attacks on freedom seem to be a winner for a man whom intelligent, normal Australians regard as mean, bad, even evil. There are, of course, some highly intelligent, decent people in Victoria but, hell's bells, cop the majority! Covid doesn't even look like going away, but they are lapping up the misery that isn't making a scrap of difference to the disease. Melbourne is the Covid death capital, but its citizens are more frightened of a few demonstrators than they are of the most appalling government in Australia's history: one that's going to put them $156 billion in debt by 2025, when they will probably still be in lockdown, and still be the Covid Capital.

I had a elective procedure done this week at our local public hospital.

The attending doctor remarked I was luck to have gotten in when i did because as of next week elective surgeries were likely to be cut back severely as resources were being garnered for he expected rise in hospitalisations due to Covid patients as lockdowns are eased.

He hade been told to take a week off to recharge before the rush comes.

The NSW figures give a frightening glimpse of the coming months especially the percentage of Covid cases hospitalised.

0-9 5%
10-19 5%
20-29 10%
30-39 15%
40-49 19%
50-59 24%
60-69 31%
70-79 45%
80-89 62%
90+ 62%

These are the figures from the current outbreak since 16 June. So nearly 1 in 3 of my age group is so seriously impacted they are presenting at hospital. Very sobering.

Anyone who isn't taking this seriously needs their head read.

http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/weekly-reports.aspx

So the CFMEU thugs go on the rampage, and the left whingers try and deny who they are? there is no doubt that it is the CFMEU.

P.S. The communists were far worse to their own people than the Nazis ever were. The fact that some idiot is happy to be called a communist only shows their ignorance.

Victoria has reported 847 new coronavirus cases.
It has experienced protests from aggressive, angry,
young men, there to fight the police and bring
Melbourne to a standstill. There were over two hundred
arrests and also injured police officers. For several days
the police had to deal with violence and aggression. Not
an easy task - but finally things appear to be under
control.

Of course -

Police have been accused for using over the top tactics.
towards people who were breaking public health orders
with their claim of their "right to protest."

The rule of law should be upheld, especially during a
pandemic. This is not about human rights, this is about
human life.

In any case - the behaviour of the police
is now being investigated. But it is hard to blame the actions
taken by the police when faced with violence and
aggression. Being gentle doesn't work with you're being
attacked and having urine thrown at you.

Supposedly an "elderly" woman was mistreated.

Allegedly, she was in her 70s. Videos of her show her
wearing a red wig and draped with an Australian flag
around her shoulders. She appears to be quite fit and
not frail in her appearance. I guess you had to be there.
Hopefully the investigation will tell us more.

The facts remain that the numbers are increasing and as
long as people continue to behave irresponsibly - the
problems will not go away - but only get worse.

If they keep shooting rubber bullets at Australian citizens, & their vicious behavior to people who are offering no danger to them, I will be surprised if there aren't a few dead police some time pretty soon.

Australian backbone is likely to make a very sudden reappearance quite violently.

"So nearly 1 in 3 of my age group is so seriously impacted they are presenting at hospital. Very sobering."

Well not quite. 1 in 3 of your age group WHO GET A POSITIVE TEST are hospitalised.
But only 50 in every 100,000 in that age group get hospitalised. (0.05%)
And only 10 in every 100,000 in that age group go into ICU. (0.01%)
and only 1.8 in every 100,000 in that age group die. (0.0018%)

By way of comparison, the death rate for that age group for road deaths is 0.005%...so the chances for that age group to die of WuFlu is similar to their chances of dying from road accidents.

Yet we aren't demanding they be banned from the roads. We not saying they need to have their heads read if they drive. When people start saying that the risks of getting in a car are sobering, I'll take them seriously.

The difference? We've grown up with road accidents. We can evaluate the risks based on past experience. We know there's a risk getting in a car but we have a feel for that risk. We know there's a risk with the WuFlu but we don't have a feel for that risk.
So we, or some of us, go weak-kneed at a risk that is minor, while getting in a car without a thought. Why? Well if we had daily press briefings telling us how many people were killed or hospitalised due to road accidents and dire warnings at every turn that death is around the corner, perhaps things would be different.

I wonder if the government/media/health bureaucracy could create a great scare based on 'sobering' road deaths. Based on what we've seen over the last 18months, anything's possible.

Dear Foxy,

There have been quite serious incidents of unacceptable thuggish behaviour from some of the protesters. However I find it hard to equate having urine thrown at you with being pushed violently to the asphalt in a manner to cause your head to quite violently strike the road and then have two loads of pepper sprayed directly into your face.

I have no reason not to believe the woman wasn't 70 but would consider any evidence to the contrary. What is clear from the videos is that she was standing a distance in front of the crowd and was flanked by two media photographers. She wasn't advancing at the police nor was she throwing items or acting in an aggressive manner.

I know serving police officers who were in attendance at the protests. They both frown upon unacceptable police actions as they serve to dramatically lessen support from the wider protester group and the public in general.

http://youtu.be/Em4O2GHWwOI

The group who gathered outside the CFMEU headquarters repeatedly made the point that they didn't expect to be moved on 'because we aren't 70 year old ladies' and 'there would be hell to pay if they tried that here'. The police did indeed leave them be for most of the day. It was point that resonated even if the police had changed tactics for strategic reasons.

There is absolutely no doubt that both hard right and left groups have taken the advantage of protests to act in a deeply anti-authoritarian and thuggish manner. But there is a large proportion of protesters who are there because of what they deem overreach by the government. That is a legitimate reason to protest even if I personally don't agree with it.

Dear mhaze,

Again with this juvenile crap?

I clearly stated this was a percentage of Covid cases before I related the percentages.

Secondly your utter bastardisation of the statistics, such a prime example of the Prosecutor's Fallacy, is so utterly disingenuous it is painful. Give it away.

Dear Foxy,

Can I add if you are on Facebook go look this bloke up. He is called the Real Rukshan and I have been following his live streams over the last few weeks. He has his own biases as do most media but it was a good resource for first-hand news.

This is a recent Age article on him which is reasonably on point.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/who-is-the-real-rukshan-20210924-p58umr.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1632556381

Pauliar,

No one believes that these thugs rioting are anything other than the same CFMEU thugs that have used violence so many times before.

Nobody says anything about the hundreds of new infections reported daily in Victoria, despite the loony lockdowns. 847 yesterday. None in SA, Tas, NT without lockdowns. Creepy place Victoria. Thick inhabitants.

SR

"Secondly your utter bastardisation of the statistics,"

But..but...but. These are statistics from the report you linked to. All I did was just talk about the parts you preferred to ignore because they didn't suit your narrative. I know that these numbers won't change the minds of those who've fallen for the government/media/health bureaucracy scare campaign. But just consider this...if , today, you drive to a covid hotspot to do some maskless shopping, the most dangerous part of that will be the drive.

Foxy,

I'm sorry. As much as I try to avoid upsetting you, you have no credibility here. You spent months agonising over the decision to get the shot or not. As have many others. But now, having made your choice, you demand that all others who made a different choice, be forced to follow your decision. Its the most authoritarian of attitudes.

The unvaccinated aren't a threat to you or yours. Leave them alone to make their choice just as you were left alone to make yours.

SM,

"the same CFMEU thugs that have used violence so many times before."

Yes, it quite interesting. The most left wing government this nation's ever had, verses the most left wing union this nation's ever had. Its like the Bolsheviks v. the Mensheviks

Norway has dropped ALL restrictions today, despite having more cases than Australia, and a total population lower than Melbourne's. Practical people, accepting of reality.

Do you know that over 450 people die every day, all the time, in Australia? Do you know how many people have died from Covid since it popped up?
Of course you don’t! Too mesmerised and scared by Big Brother to think for yourselves and do your own investigation. Leave it to lying politicians, lying public servants, and lying media.

mhaze,

This pandemic is real. The numbers are growing in Victoria.
The construction industry has been found to have the
COVID virus amongst it members and even amongst the
protesters. Being not vaccinated is no longer an option.
Just as having your children not vaccinated and expecting
them to still be accepted into child-care was in the
the past (no jab-no play).

Also we are all expected to abide by the laws of this country.
And certainly doing violent acts should not be condoned.

I stand by my views.

Over a 1,000 new cases in NSW yesterday, even with lockdowns. Parties on Bondi beach, packed in like sardines, drinking like fish, and no masks worn. No fines issued by police either, according to the moaning mayor. The tide is turning against the dictators. Get vaccinated and take back your lives from the misery makers.

At the end of the day it looks like 90-95% will end up double vaxxed. We get out of this relatively well and life returns to something approaching "normal". The Victorian carry on was politically motivated, nothing to do with rights or health, the Andrews haters seen an opportunity and took it.

mhaze's approach to statistics:

"I see people wearing winter coats and hats. What a bunch of sheep! LOL! I did my own research and found out that only 1500 people die from hypothermia in the US per year. That's only 0.0005% of the population. They live in fear of something that 99.9995% of people won't die from. It gets better, a lot of the people who died from hypothermia were wearing coats and hats, and they still died! Coats don't work!"

Steele, I was clear on what you said in your post maze seemed to have a problem. BTW 1% of the population die each year from 1 of a 100 different things. That makes Covid ok.

The logic of some is mind boggling like lots die each year from alcohol related illness, that makes smoking ok.

ttbn I hope I didn't upset you. Nothing worse than an UPSET EXTREMIST.

"When all of the despotism, police brutality, lies and deceptions are put together, they manifest a failure of our civilisation to stand the test. Freedoms that we thought were protected by representative government, by parliaments, by an independent press; and, importantly, by custom, crumbled under the inept management of a disease of limited lethality. Just one political leader of stature, federal or state, might have made a difference. No one. Just wall-to-wall mediocrities with autocratic tendencies." (Peter Smith , Quadrant commentator).

Throughout history the mob has been fooled by, and has followed, bad people like Adolf Hitler, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe, and other dictators, because that's what the mob does. It all turns bad in the end. Here and now, the mob is following people like Dan Andrews. And it will turn out bad in the end. What? Dan's not like that, you say. Well, that's what the mob thought about above mentioned until the truth finally dawned, too late.

It's interesting that the seeming narcissist Paul1405 seemingly labelling Armchair Critic and ttbn as narcissist- isn't this classic DARVO- It's been claimed that any attempt to hold a narcissist accountable leads to avoidance and a reverse accusation- distortion of reality. I probably favour the existential perspective as everyone views reality through the eyes of their own traditions- cultural relativism- each internally consistent in their own way- the success of failure of which can only really be determined internally within the community. The problem with live and let live is those that you let live could be the cause of your death.

From the article that SteeleRedux posted.

http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Pages/weekly-reports.aspx

Age Group Case fatality rate
0-9 0
9-19 <1
19-29 <1
29-39 <1
39-49 <1
49-59 <1
59-69 1
69-79 5
79-89 14
>89 18
Total <1

Yes "The Real Rukshan" seems to be more reasonable than the authorities (at least in the video I saw).

In a democracy the sovereign seeks a mandate. There may be a level of death that the community is content with because when you deal with absolutes (ie greater than 0 death is unacceptable) the cost in other dimensions (such as the economy) is exponential.

My view is if the authorities had have locked Australia's borders through the ports and airports the new strains would have never hit Australia. And over time we would beat the old strains- and with strong national quarantine measures allow very small numbers from secure nations. It seems the authorities have decided (on our behalf) that paying billions of dollars from the public purse to the pharma companies forever is the better way

What's happening was inevitable. People are prepared to make sacrifices for safety only up to a point.

Dan Andrews instead of trying to protect peoples liberty and livelihood has been using the most draconian lockdowns as the first and only solution and has now overplayed his one and only strategy. Now a lot of people are suffering and are sick of it.

The CFMEU has lit the fire and now it is burning out of control. The only tool Labor has got is to use hundreds of police and physical force to try and put down the rebellion with inevitable results.

Unless Chairman Dan comes up with some new moves he is in deep trouble.

A bit rich of the hysterical right trying to compare the democratically elected Dan Andrews with the likes of their folk hero's Adolf Hitler and Pol etc. These are the same guys who vote for those of the extreme who would remove all civil liberties given half the chance.

The Andrews government has worked hard to protect Victorians from the imported Gladys virus. Rioters should be directing their venom towards the incomperdent Berejiklian and Morrison who are the real culprits with this virus, killing hundreds and infecting thousands.

If Morrison had guts and gumption, he would cut funds, including GST, from Victoria, New South Wales, Western Australia and Queensland until their lunatic governments stopped the now totally discredited, useless lockdowns and border closures.

The federal government is not without its anti-democratic politicians, David Littleproud (little to be proud of) calling protesters "society scum" who "should be jailed". They "don't deserve to live in society freely", he bellowed.

What a nasty, rustic hick.

I don't know about lockdowns ttbn, but boarder closures have certainly been successful in keeping the current outbreak sweeping Victoria & NSW out of other states.

Ofcourse none of the state boarder closers would have been necessary, if the international borders had been closed & KEPT closed.

Now Andrews has gone to water in face of protests, & is going to open up, despite a new surge in infections, with NSW following. Expect a large increase in infections & deaths if this happens.

If Morrison forces us to open internationally before Christmas we will find out just how useful these Vaccines really are. I hope I'm wrong, but I expect we will find them about as useful as tits on a bull. Morrison has bet the farm on Vaccines, & will deserve criminal prosecution if it transpires he is in allusion with drug producers.

The whole elite deserve to be held responsible for denying Ivermectin to the public. They should be made to pay the full price for the murders they have thus committed.

Posted by shadowminister, Monday, 27 September 2021 2:47:57 AM

The CFMEU has lit the fire and now it is burning out of control. The only tool Labor has got is to use hundreds of police and physical force to try and put down the rebellion with inevitable results.

Unless Chairman Dan comes up with some new moves he is in deep trouble.

Answer-

Yes the Labor party and the communists don't serve the workers- standard dog wagging- communist style propaganda.

I guess that Premier Andrews seems to be operating on the idea that he can do what he wants- as is the police- it's interesting that in our democratic society many feel as if they are powerless- Orwell's warning against totalitarianism- Animal Farm "some are more equal than others".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm

Where there is powerlessness is totalitarianism.

When President Trump won the election in 2016 the media and the university's (thought leaders) said that the people were stupid- I thought- what would lead these institutions to discredit the US people in this way- conclusion that it was likely that these institutions have betrayed the people- have lost touch- and further that subversion and division of the institutions and the American people had been proceeding for many years throughout the western world.

Premier Andrews seems to have also betrayed the people- as has Victoria Police. It seems that the management of Victoria Police (as perhaps other western institutions) has become ideological.

Freedom is not free.

I guess they'll be a period of Shakespearean Tragedy, Betrayal, Comedy- classic literature has timeless lessons for life.

Communist nations are probably the nations with the most totalitarian systems that create the most powerless populations. Notice that Biden comes from the Left "Establishment" not the Left "Popular" group.

Leftists of various types do seem to consistently discredit "Popularism"- this is perhaps because they don't believe that the people should manage their own lives. It seems Communists are extreme anti-popularists.

Throughout history there has been a debate between man is good and man is bad (and can't be trusted).

Pauliar,

You are hysterical, the looney left whingers are the worst violators of personal freedoms after the Taliban. Melbourne is now the most locked-down city in the world as well as Victorian labour has infected and kill more people than the rest of Australia several times over. Gladys is far more highly regarded than Chairman Dan with respect to Covid.

NSW easily handled the Dandemic from Labor's cock-up, but Chairman Dan failed miserably. What Melbourne has is 1000s of people robbed of their livelihoods.

Some have said man needs to be guided not forced in the right direction. Broadly- authorities should serve the "population" ie. should be "popularists"

It seems that the Victorian Premier is correct in a sense that he has unlimited power.

It's very important that we remember this- when the state votes- when Department Heads are hired (such as Victoria's Commissioner Of Police)- and the human resources principles that are used to hire staff especially in leadership roles- how professionals are trained through our universities as well as by whom they are trained.

Are the leaders of our community people that we would choose and trust to do the job? Do they have the same beliefs and values?

Freedom is not free. We will remember them!

SR wrote : "mhaze's approach to statistics"

and then proceeds to create my opinion for me. Pretty standard SR there - when you can't deal with my views as presented, make up new views and then mock these made-up views.

I should just point out that even though he put it in quotes, I didn't say any of the things he purports. I need to point that out because in a month or three, he'll have convinced himself I did indeed say it.

As an aside, if I were to look at the efficacy of coats I'd want to compare a coat wearing district with a non-coat wearing one - as I did with lockdowns. But SR doesn't like that approach, especially when it reaches the wrong (ie unwanted) results.

As NSW heads toward so-called 'Freedom Day', things are becoming increasingly concerning.

For a start, its disturbing so many so easily accept the idea that 'Freedom' is something that can be granted or withdrawn by the elite based on their own made-up criteria.

Additionally, there is a rush to penalise those who don't follow government instructions as regards the vaccine. Even though the preponderance of evidence is that the unvaccinated aren't a threat to the vaccinated, the government is seeking to segregate society based on that criteria. People without a government approved document that shows they have abided by government instructions as regards the vaccine, will be effective excluded from society.

Whatismore, that government approved document must be presented to any shop-keeper, government agent or other official who demands it AND it contains all sorts of information that is unnecessary to the immediate needs to demonstrate that the carrier is not one of the unclean. Additionally, the fact that the current government approved document can and has been forged will inevitably lead to even more draconian measures to try to defeat the forgers.

We've already given up much that was one won over the past century. But much more will be demanded by our rulers

shonkysinister,

"Gladys is far more highly regarded" you make with the funny.

With the way the Gladys virus is killing people in NSW by the hundreds, it must make you feel good to be safe under a Labour government in New Zealand. BTW, did you get to pal up with that hero of yours Brenton Tarrant?

Is it true you were Big Nose's and The Hazzard's, Mr Limo Driver? Packed you off to NZ for your own protection.

By citing 'Gaia' it's obvious that any analysis is not based on science but more on radical right libertarian agitprop aka ZPG, limits to growth, Club of Rome etc.; sciency sounding PR constructs used to deny climate science and related measures.

Clear that the LNP national Government, NSW too, and in cooperation with legacy media are desperate to deflect from their own incompetence round all things Covid while 'producing' mostly confected national agitprop for interstate voters (and simultaneously ignoring comparisons and best practice outside of Australia).

Gaia https://theconversation.com/gaia-theory-is-it-science-yet-4901 can be neither proved nor disproved as it is a mish mash of both science and beliefs.

Dear Canem Malum,

Forgive me but my understanding is you are not an Australian nor do you live here. If that is correct why on earth are you bandying around terms like:

“Freedom is not free. We will remember them!” when referring to the Victoria police?

I have no issue with you contributing to conversations but not to that extent. We have enough people in this country being lead by the nose by outside provocateurs not to call it out when we see it.

Dear mhaze,

Crikey you are a snowflake. Firstly I used single rather than double quotation marks, secondly it was so obviously satire that even the most addled of brains would not have ascribed it to you.

However is was an exacting portrayal of the methods you employ.

Dear Hasbeen,

You opined: “Now Andrews has gone to water in face of protests, & is going to open up, despite a new surge in infections, with NSW following. Expect a large increase in infections & deaths if this happens.”

Well no he hasn't. This was the likely roadmap he outlined before the recent large protests. I challenge you to find anything he has changed in any substantive manner. There isn't anything.

Finally I know as someone who is refusing to get a vaccine, even though a Covid infection has an over 60% chance of putting someone of your age in hospital, you are anxious that our freedoms are subservient to your needs. Well sorry mate, while I will miss you if you are gone it is bloody hard to have much sympathy for your current circumstances.

You have to stop singing from the lefty hymn book, if you want anyone to take what you say seriously SR.

Come on, you can do better, & become even slightly believable.

Fascinating hall of mirrors.

Dear Hasbeen,

I have asked you a pretty simple question and as usual when you can't answer it you go the man.

Utterly predictable old boy. You really should do better however we know that is unlikely.

Dear CM,

Same with you, I asked a question but all we get is some waffle about mirrors. Why are you using the term "we" when you aren't one of us?

Pauliar,

Look it up, Bubonic Dan is slipping in the polls especially after reaching the world record for lockdown while killing nearly 900 of his voters.

shonkysinister,

What do I suppose to "look up" one of your off the planet polls from the Murdoch gutter press, the what Rupert thinks poll you read. You know full well, private aged care is a Morrison responsibility, set up by Howard, and his government made such a shambolic mess of it in Victoria. By the time the Feds gave approval for the State health to go in it was too late, and Morrison had bumped off hundreds of old folk. Get your facts straight! Typical Morrison buck passing as he has consistently done throughout this pandemic.

Looks like Gladys has pushed her virus into Queensland again. This fool in NSW wants Queensland to open up to her Gladys Virus so we can share in the joy of dying from her inflicted disease. No way, not today, not never.

Freydenberg has announced that the federal government will be cutting off Covid money to the states when they reach 80% vaccination. They could be toughening up at last, or they know that 80% will never be reached, and they will never have to do the right thing by the economy and taxpayers. Nobody is listening to them anymore.

Certain states appear to be using Covid and Centrelink payments as a hammer to beat the Federal Liberals with.

CM,

Yes. But the feds have control of the money, so there's no doubt who the silly buggers are.

Good news for Victoria. We've hit the 80% first dose
mark for the population aged over 16. This means some
restrictions are easing just as the Premier has promised.
The 10k travel restriction today becomes a 15k travel
restriction. Contactless recreation is now allowed (tennis,
boating, golf), personal training, playground restrictions
for kids have also been lifted (Yay for parents). Regional
Victoria has even more restrictions being lifted.

All in all the Premier is sticking to his plan as promised.
More restrictions will be lifted when the state will reach
70% double vaccinations by late October. Which is something
to look forward to. Most Victorians are grateful for the
progress being made. Better to be safe than sorry.

Pauliar,

Lying through your teeth again. The deaths in Victoria are entirely bubonic Dan's fault. There was no permission required or given to attend to the covid cases that Labor caused.

How is your pal Jonathan Doig?

Canem Malum,

As you are totally unfamiliar with the Australian system, the Federal Government is responsible for income support, the States are responsible for health orders. Not sure what the arrangements are in your country, maybe you can explain.

Dear Foxy,

«This means some restrictions are easing just as the Premier has promised. The 10k travel restriction today becomes a 15k travel
restriction.»

All this means is that Andrews won't restrict you [as much] - but the virus still does, unless you are eager to get it.

Reasonable people will still not leave their homes just because government happened to say they can, even more so now when the unreasonable people will go out and increase the infection rate exponentially.

Remember, the vaccines were never designed for the Delta strain so their effectiveness is limited. I pray that you stay well.

In NSW when vaxx rates hit 110% Gladys road map is going to allow one blind in the house to be opened for 30 minutes per day, that's up from the present requirement that all doors , windows and blinds remain firmly shut in red, green, blue and purple zones, you purple people thought Gladys had forgotten about you, fat chance, the Big G has got your number, no escape. That's only for households which have had triple jabs including children, dog, cats and budgies. Vaxx is not approved for gold fish under 5 as yet, but Scotty's working on it. Who knows what delights tomorrow may bring...doughtnuts at lunchtime, how's that, I'm so excited, I just can't hide it! Naked frolicking in the park may still be a possibility for the fully vaccinated and uninhibited, with a vaxx passport of course.

ttbn- Yes it'll be interesting to see how things pan out. Get ready for some interesting political theatre.

Craig Kelly's letter to Scott Morrison:

Dear Prime Minister,

"The violence on the streets of Melbourne has shocked the nation. To see in the shadows of the Shrine of Remembrance, Victorian Police firing rubber bullets into the backs of fleeing protesters is what you might see in a dystopian dictatorship – not in a free and democratic nation. This division and violence is being driven by one issue – the State Premiers wanting to enforce a Domestic Vaccine Passport. I no longer recognise the nation I grew up in, and as Prime Minister the buck stops with you. You have the power to end this division by banning Domestic Vaccine Passports, as many states in the USA have done.

There is legislation (I have introduced) modelled on Florida’s legislation which bans discrimination based on Covid vaccination status. The case for vaccine passports has been debunked by experts around the world.

I implore you Prime Minister to stop the division in our society through a despicable ‘No Jab, No Job’ policy; to end the chaos and madness that the nation has fallen into under your watch; and to restore our nation’s freedoms by recalling Parliament and urgently passing the No Covid Domestic Vaccine Passport Bill 2021."

Victorians have seen their daily infection rate overtake NSW's. Didn't one of those fools say something like 'better safe than sorry' when approving of their dictator's useless lockdowns?

Essential Poll puts Victoria right at the bottom for all states for the handling of Covid.

Victorians themselves - only 36% said that they understood Dan's Plan and had confidence in it; 50% said that they understood it alright, but had NO confidence in it.

So, there might be hope for Victorians yet, with only the rusted-on Marxists ideologues supporting their dictator.

Officially the highest number of cases EVER today in Victoria. Keep it up Dan. Keep listening to the "experts" and their 'civil disobedient' excuses.

Simply put it's because people are not abiding by the
rules. Illegal parties over the grand final week-end
are partly blamed for Victoria's huge spike in COVID.
There's household to household transmissions - and the
end result is seeing the virus spread.

The good news is, it won't take much to change the
situation. The numbers would go back down again if the
rules were more strictly followed.

If higher vaccination rates were achieved this
would also help. The rising vaccination rates in NSW has
dampened transmission there. People need to be sensible
if they want the lockdowns to end

Dear Foxy,

«The numbers would go back down again if the
rules were more strictly followed.»

This statement seems to misplace cause and effect:

The numbers would indeed go back down again if the people of Victoria stayed at home and otherwise physically distanced themselves, wore masks, etc.

But the numbers would not come down BECAUSE people followed rules, they would only come down because people physically distanced themselves, etc.

Suppose the rules changed and allowed everyone to mix up with everyone - would the infection rate come down? Of course not!

«People need to be sensible if they want the lockdowns to end»

But what is sensible about ending the lockdowns while the virus is still circulating?

Unless of course you prefer to be controlled by the virus rather than by government: this I can well understand, but please stay safely at home so long as the virus is in the air, regardless of what government says or doesn't, stay home even if the blessed Lord sends His lightening to strike them all down.

Large numbers of last weeks rioters in Melbourne were carriers of the virus. The stupid action of these nitwits, along with footy nut jobs have parties on the weekend has resulted in large super spreader events.

As for the Palmer puppet Kelly, these pair of galahs are liars and can't be trusted.

ttbn,

Have you jumped on the Palmer/Kelly bandwagon? They seem to be your kinda guys.

Dear Yuyutsu,

Thank You for your concern. I am being sensible and
keeping to my home. I do not want to catch or spread
the virus. I am also booked in for my second jab
which hopefully will also help.

Take care.
Stay safe.

Dear Paul,

There are some Victorians who are not being sensible.
They are having parties, not keeping to their homes,
and of course the virus is spreading. There are also
those who are anti-vaccination - who are not helping.
I'm still optimistic though that people will come to
their senses.

Hi Foxy,

The second jab more than doubles the protection of the first, allow 2 to 3 weeks after it to obtain maximum protection.

We had our first family cases in Sydney, Te Aroha's son's brother-in-law, partner and child. In second week both parents admitted to hospital, after spending first week at home. She was only in for I think 3 days, but he was a bit sicker and about 5 days in hospital. Child wasn't too bad. back home and getting better.

Son, tells me of the about 450 bus drivers at his depot, only 6 refused the vaccination, they have been stood down for the time being. Most are now fully vaccinated, about 80 drivers are in home isolation due to an infection in the work place last week. Son was not deemed a close contact so far, they are still sorting it out.

Locking the national borders would help to stop Corona- but it's clear that certain state governments need to improve their port controls.

Victoria today:

242 days in lockdown.
11,018 active Covid cases.
1,438 new infections.
856 deaths.
Under 50% of the population fully vaccinated.
Public hospital system on the verge of collapse.
Elective surgery lists cut by 50% to make space for Covid patients.
Ambulances forced to queue outside Melbourne hospitals under strain of Covid.
58 charges laid by state’s workplace safety watchdog against the Department of Health over lethal hotel quarantine fiasco of 2020.
More than 700 deaths during the second wave triggered by hotel quarantine.
No individuals charged by WorkSafe; meaning taxpayers will pay the fines incurred by the Department of Health.

Victoria also has the worst performing economy in the country, and the highest unemployment. Andrews has dragged his state into chaos. The 'Garden State' has become the 'No Hope' state.

Wake up ttbn, the latest outbreak of Gladys virus in Victoria, as elsewhere, is all down to incomperdent virus management by the Berejiklian government and the shambolic vaccine roll-out by the Morrison government. Have you forgotten the fiasco of "Mr Limo Driver", now with hundreds dead, and thousands infected, not one head has rolled including the NSW Health Minister Hazzard or Premier Berejiklian.

Another record for the fwit bubonic Dan Andrews. 1438 new cases in 1 day.

The problem is that Chairman Dan by locking down at the drop of a hat has burnt through all the goodwill of the people of Melbourne with the result that many people simply don't care anymore especially those who are being financially ruined. As the numbers grow the ability of the police to enforce compliance evaporates.

The health department data shows that the Melbourne local
government areas with the highest rates of active COVID
cases has recorded the biggest proportional increase in
first doses administered. This is a good thing. We need to
remember that even with the fast moving Delta outbreak
Australia has largely avoided the high numbers seen in many
comparable countries because of higher vaccination rates.

The Victorian leader has pledged more freedom to residents
once full vaccinations in people older than 16 reach higher
percentages.

The premier's popularity continues to remain high in
Victoria. Most people feel that Andrews is focusing on
them and trying to do what's good for the public as a whole.
Mr Andrews is popular due to the fact he's putting himself
on the line. The Premier is not sugar coating the facts
and is achieving things.

The Victorian Labor government had been returned to office by
a big majority in the last election and the Premier has not
shyed away from his responsibility for Victoria's Corona
virus response stating:

"The accountability sits with me - of course it does."

The News Corp media should stop its attacks on the Victorian
Premier. The more they attack him, the more the Premier's
popularity remains stable.

Another thing about Dictator Dan is his foiled attempt to join in the the Chinese Communist Belt and Road debt trap. At least the federal government put a stop to that; if they hadn't, Victoria would have been in even more debt.

Countries which did fall for the BRI scheme are now $530 billion in debt to China.

The good news is that at least 50% of Victorians have had enough of the Andrews's dictatorship. Those remaining 'loyal' are poor, pathetic stooges who continue on the road to serfdom. They are too stupid to face the fact that Covid is actually getting WORSE as their hero gets tougher and more inhumane. There is nothing more to be said - no hope until this dreadful man is gone. When, if it's all over, these people deserve to be viewed in the same way Nazi collaborators were viewed in France and other countries occupied during WW11.

It's interesting that some posters on this forum
appear to have lost the ability to debate the
merits and content of a position. Instead they
want to play to the troll-fed, worst of who humans
can be.

Arguing with these anonymous
virulent strangers on the internet is a sucker's
game because they almost always turn out to be
self-righteous, angry extremists, possessing infinite
amounts of free time.

"Arguing with these anonymous
virulent strangers on the internet is a sucker's
game because they almost always turn out to be
self-righteous, angry extremists, possessing infinite
amounts of free time."

Exactly. That's why I'm amazed that the writer of the above is, herself, always arguing. This is not a debating club. It gives an opportunity for people who would not be otherwise ge heard an opportunity to express their OPINIONS. If you want waste your time arguing, that's OK: just futile. Even more amazing - or perhaps amusing - is seeing "self-righteous" people and "extremists" with "infinite amounts of free time" accusing other people when she spends more time on OLO than most of us together, is certainty self-righteous, and possesses extreme Left views.

It appears that I've struck a nerve.
rattled a cage.
I rest my case.

cont'd ...

Have any of you ever come onto this forum and not
found ttbn to be here?

No. me neither.

Have any of you ever saw him write anything positive?

No. me neither.

NSW,

87.2% have had at least one dose of vaccine.
64% have had 2 doses and are now fully vaccinated.
Opening up the state in November

Victoria 80% and 49.8%
No intention of opening up.

The Victorian Premier has announced that -Melbourne's
lockdown will be lifted once 70% of Victorian
adults are FULLY vaccinated against COVID, expected about
26th October.

Once the milestone is reached, the reasons to leave home
and the curfew will be ditched. People will be allowed to
travel 25km and there will be a return to outdoor dining and
drinking.

Further substantial changes to the state's restrictions won't
be made until 80% of over 16s are immunized, forecast to
occur - 5th November.

By Christmas, it's expected family members will be able to
gather at home in groups of up to 30 people, an increase
from 10 house guests that will be permitted when 80%
vaccination target is met.

Foxy,

That is not lifting lockdown.

At 80% NSW will open the state to business as usual incl overseas travel.

How many times now have we heard that restrictions would be lifted in Victoria?

Victorians have suffered the most lockdowns and biggest loss of freedoms in the world over something that 99.7% of people who get it survive. But, there appears to be no opposition party, and not a peep from the myriad of organisations that sport the words "human rights" in their names. Still, what can you expect from the same mob that persecuted and jailed the innocent Cardinal Pell. Victoria is the North Korea of the Antipodes.

shadowminister,

Still a fan of Dan here and a big plus is that he isn't the subject of a corruption investigation forcing his resignation.

Don't need any investigation, Andrews should be out on his communist ear for his attempt at the China Belt and Road Initiative.

Kudos ttbn- A wonder if Foxy's confidence in "Dandrews" will confirm her view at the election- as it did in 2016- many have little confidence in surveys. It's interesting how many people choose to vote "no comment" at these surveys either by just avoiding those with clip boards or hanging up their phones and on which sides they are prevalent- sadly they don't seem to provide these figures.

There are trolls on both the left and right- trolling is a tool in the toolbox to influence people- it's just part of debating and Rhetoric- Plato wrote a book on it.

Political Compass / Spectrum gives some insight here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum

Also interesting.

http://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/voters-shun-labor-over-covid-but-andrews-still-preferred-premier-20210616-p581h1.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8720283/Myer-boss-slams-Daniel-Andrews-roadmap-lockdown-premiers-popularity-plummets-new-poll.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_O'Brien_(Victorian_politician)

They should lock down Australia's borders- it appears the Victorian Premier has finally taken my advise by building a quarantine facility down the road from the airport- too little too late however.

Warren Mundine compares Covid restrictions with the nonsense indigenous Australians had to put up with under the Aborigines Protection Act 1909 (NSW).

Until he was a teenager, Warren lived under the control of bureaucrats who micro-managed Aboriginal lives under the guise of ‘protection and care’, and treated aboriginal people like children, not to be trusted to take care of themselves or make their own decisions.

He now says, "I don’t want to live my remaining decades under even more stringent controls, imposed by even less compassionate bureaucrats, all under the guise of public health".

I suppose now Dan Andrews is responsible for Berejiklian resigning today?

Better news, there are rumblings about recent polling showing the potential of the Libs falling off a cliff in Victoria losing key Melbourne electorates; the Vic LNP can thank NewsCorp, lesser extent 9Fairfax and 7WM?

Again, the LNP, Independents, Palmer, miners and NewsCorp will need to throw the kitchen sink at QLD voters to at least stop them voting Labor....

Australians are currently being subjected to hitherto unprecedented control over, and incursions into, our lives by the state. We have been subjected to a seemingly inexhaustible and constantly changing supply of confusing, dehumanising and arbitrary edicts which are daily issued by a cabal of unelected health bureaucrats and their politician handlers. Our police forces have successfully cowed the citizenry into unquestioning obedience. Even more remarkable has been the willingness of many to become accessories to this political overreach by ‘ratting out’ our friends, families and neighbours.

These past months have been hard on us all.
We have missed our loved ones as well as doing the
things we love all the while buying time for people
to get vaccinated. Opening up too soon however before
people had the chance to get the jab would mean our
hospital systems simply could not cope and catastrophic
numbers of people would become seriously sick.

However as more and more people get that protection we
can move slowly to the next phase of the pandemic and we
have the opportunity to open up. The path to being open
again will be difficult but essential to moving forward.

Hopefully we shall all be able to celebrate the coming
holidays in December with our friends and families.
That's something worth striving for.

Take care.
Stay safe.

Extremists throwing the word extremist around is amusing. Notice that Traditionalist often don't use the word extremist- they play the ball not the man- maybe they should use it more- maybe they should play the man more. No man and you get the ball. Communists and Globalists will come after everybody in the end- best you make a stand before it's too late- death by a thousand cuts.

Every culture needs their own nation- a families house is their nation- a communities street is it's nation- a cultures city is it's nation.

Protect your nation- it's the only thing that protects you.

Dear Foxy,

«These past months have been hard on us all.
We have missed our loved ones as well as doing the
things we love all the while buying time for people
to get vaccinated.»

Fair enough, but this hardship is inevitably caused by the virus and there is no point complaining about the forces of nature.

As for the vaccine, forget it, it is illusory: nothing is changing in this arms-race, humans develop vaccines and the virus continues to mutate. The vaccines we are getting now are already outdated. Politicians don't care for me or you, they are only impatient to open up their economy so they can collect taxes, using vaccines as an excuse and to hell with our health! Don't believe them - stay at home!

---

Dear Ttbn,

«Australians are currently being subjected to hitherto unprecedented control over, and incursions into, our lives by the state.»

Indeed, but it is complicated because the edicts the state makes, coincide with real objective necessity: had there [hopefully] been no state/government, we would still need to take similar steps.

So instead of being troubled and angered by this or that specific COVID-protection measure, we must look at the the lack of any philosophical foundation and consistency in government actions and try to address it for the long term, for the post-COVID world, even if we personally will not live long enough to see that day.

Let us work on the foundations: can we, instead of the mess we are now in, build a society that is voluntary, morally-legitimate and philosophically consistent?

P.S. You fell into a trap when you wrote: "Our police forces have successfully...": are these really YOUR police-forces? They are certainly not mine, I did not create them, I have not invited them, and I don't think you did either.

---

Dear Canem Malum,

«Protect your nation- it's the only thing that protects you.»

So you propose to support the big-bad-wolf just because he wouldn't allow you (or anyone else) to protect yourself? So he can eat you all alone?

No nation for me, Sir/Madam!

How does Andrews get everyone vaccinated when there is a shortage of vaccines?
- make everyone stand in tight straight lines, then vaccinate five people at a time using 2-meter-long needles.

But that is just one jab - how does Andrews achieve double-vaccination without having to wait?
- simple, declare day-light-saving and move the clock forward by three weeks.

How does Andrews achieve 100% vaccination?
- so easy, just shoot anyone who is unvaccinated.

But how does Andrews achieve ABOVE 100% vaccination?
- dig up the cemeteries and vaccinate everyone there, post mortem.

Dear Yuyutsu,

It takes a while for grass to grow
For returning spring to melt the snow
For a hatching bird to break the shell
To draw sweet water from a well

Between the in breath and the out
Between the seedling and the sprout
Between the act and the reaction
Between the desire and satisfaction
There's a pause, a pulse where faith should smile
And calmly know - it takes a while.

Take care.
Stay safe.

How will the loony make people comply?

At a recent press conference, Andrews said that his police force will take whatever steps were necessary - and we have all seen what that means.

There is a video of him threatening Victorian workers on YouTube, titled: "Australia Is At the Mercy of an Authoritarian Psychopath". It could have been put up by a foreigner who doesn't know that Victoria is just one state of Australia (overseas bloggers are very scathing of our draconian lockdowns etc, wondering if we can still be called a free country).

But, he got only the one word wrong, because Victoria is certainly at the mercy of an authoritarian psychopath. And Essential Poll clearly shows that Victorians are getting pretty sick of it, despite what Leftist, wacko disciples of Dan claim.

Research shows that beyond the brain benefits
positivity has a strong link between our heart
health and immune systems. It's also a bit of
a superpower against stress and a substantial
influence in setting and achieving confidence.

Therefore Victorians are committed to keep
positivity top of mind, from morning to night.
They're committed to keep Australians feeling
great. So folks, laugh, smile, boost your
"good mood hormones."

Stay positive. Positivity is a good
kinda contagious. As for the haters?
Let them fizz and splutter in their own grease.

Herald Sun front page: "Dan's Dire World Record".

Melbourne is officially the most locked down city in the world.

The paper has been kind to the Victorian dictator, mentioning only 40 of his biggest blunders.

News Corp has been slammed for its "unbalanced"
reporting on Victorian Premier as polls show that
the majority of Victorians support him.

However, people apply their own lenses on what they
read and they pigeonhole things as being "on their side"
or not.

Life is not as black and white as that. But social media
is increasingly that black and white.

Like attracts like, and it groups like-minded people
together and unfortunately brings the fringes of society
into the mainstream. The middle conversations drop out
because there's no point in trying to engage with them.
We know what the extreme views are. They are the loudest
voices. Eventually they will die out as new victims are
found.

I can understand Foxy wanting to kill people with a philosophy different to her own. I can even respect it in a sense. Maybe in the future- perhaps after a lot of bloodshed- Foxy will concede our right to live the way we want on our own land- a nation of the people, by the people, for the people, with whatever philosophy we want to live by. Not that we care what Foxy thinks.

Long live dictator Foxy

Dear Canem Malum,

You are at it again.

Take your "nation of the people, by the people, for the people" and shove it where the sun don't shine. This is Australia mate, not the country which imprisons the highest proportion of its population compared to any other in the world.

I think Lincoln would be absolutely shattered by what your country has become and we certainly don't want lectures from ignorant yanks like yourself.

It was not our prime ministers who followed your presidents by legalising torture, of assassinating your own citizens, of denying universal healthcare to hundreds of millions of its citizens.

Next you will be quoting 'Land of the Brave' at us.

Seriously your opinion is about as welcome as a fart at a funeral. Nick off.

I think Foxy's views are a lot more welcome here that some puffed up septic tank

Kudos SteeleRedux

Dear Steele,

Thank You.

Robert F. Kennedy once said:

"What is objectionable, what is dangerous
about extremists is not that they are extreme,
but that they are intolerant. The evil is not
what they say about their cause, but what they
say about their opponents."

I can see that Steele Redux isn't a fan of the principles of democracy. Democracy as Churchill said has faults. Democracy and the dangerous crowd in the modern age as Freud said needs to be controlled- Dandrews has used Corona to do it- well done- but it highlights the point that democracy isn't necessarily of the people- rule of law- well- when it suits them. Power over their own lives is out of reach for many.

Democracy has become a smoke screen- an obfuscation- for those unprincipled that play power games- playing "keep away" with the power from those that own it- taking their power from your liberty.

Freedom is not free.

Ask yourself what are the principles of freedom?

Is it being free to sleep all day- at someone else's expense- or the freedom to live productively by principles that you and your ancestors chose.

For me The Republic by Plato is a good place to start.

Perhaps like The Republic we will need to start again "from green fields" building our society from nothing but thought and perspiration upon the bones of our ancestors like those of Flanders Field as Australia did in it's youth.

"At last I came to the conclusion that all existing states are badly governed and the condition of their laws practically incurable, without some miraculous remedy and the assistance of fortune; and I was forced to say, in praise of true philosophy, that from her height alone was it possible to discern what the nature of justice is, either in the state or in the individual, and that the ills of the human race would never end until either those who are sincerely and truly lovers of wisdom come into political power, or the rulers of our cities, by the grace of God (théia moira), learn true philosophy." Plato

War "polemos" is a natural state of affairs, rather than an aberration from accustomed tranquillity. Plato

http://brewminate.com/war-and-peace-in-platos-political-thought/

http://www.slp.org/pdf/marx/comm_man.pdf

http://poets.org/poem/flanders-fields

Interesting...

We are the army of the Chinese people and in all things we take the will of the Chinese people as our will. The policies of our army represent the urgent demands of the Chinese people and chief among them are the following:

(1) Unite workers, peasants, soldiers, intellectuals and businessmen, all oppressed classes, all people's organizations, democratic parties, minority nationalities, overseas Chinese and other patriots; form a national united front; overthrow the dictatorial Chiang Kai-shek government; and establish a democratic coalition government.

(2) Arrest, try and punish the civil war criminals headed by Chiang Kai-shek.

(3) Abolish the Chiang Kai-shek dictatorship, carry out the system of people's democracy and guarantee freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly and of association for the people.

(4) Abolish the rotten institutions of the Chiang Kai-shek regime, clear out all corrupt officials and establish clean government.

(5) Confiscate the property of the four big families[9] of Chiang Kai-shek, T. V. Soong, H. H. Kung and the Chen Li-fu brothers, and the property of the other chief war criminals; confiscate bureaucrat-capital, develop the industry and commerce of the national bourgeoisie, improve the livelihood of workers and employees, and give relief to victims of natural calamities and to poverty-stricken people.

(6) Abolish the system of feudal exploitation and put into effect the system of land to the tillers.

(7) Recognize the right to equality and autonomy of the minority nationalities within the borders of China.

(8) Repudiate the traitorous foreign policy of Chiang Kai-shek's dictatorial government, abrogate all the treasonable treaties and repudiate all the foreign debts contracted by Chiang Kai-shek during the civil war period. Demand that the U.S. government withdraw its troops stationed in China, which are a menace to China's independence, and oppose any foreign country's helping Chiang Kai-shek to carry on civil war or trying to revive the forces of Japanese aggression. Conclude treaties of trade and friendship with foreign countries on the basis of equality and reciprocity. Unite in a common struggle with all nations which treat us as equals.

The above are the basic policies of our army. They will be put into practice at once wherever our army goes. These policies conform with the demands of more than 90 per cent of the people in our country.

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-4/mswv4_22.htm

CM,

Is anyone reading those endless post of garbage you put up. No one seems to reply... I did. I note the word Pluto is in one bit of your nonsense. Being a foreigner, are you from the plant Pluto.

"I can see that Steele Redux isn't a fan of the principles of democracy."

No you can't unless you mean that toxic brand of democracy which leads to police chiefs, prosecutors and judges being elected rather than appointed. No, I don't want a bar of that.

Nor do I want my elected representatives spending 2/3rds of their time dedicated to fundraising for the next election as in the US.

You lot have your democracy tied into hyper capitalism where worker's voices through unions is utterly stifled and big business rules supreme.

The great pity is ours is following suit to a degree but still not to the truly disgusting levels so prevalent in your country.

Leave our democracy to us and go look after your own, it certainly needs it.

The principles of the Peoples Liberation Army seem ironic given what we know. You would expect those of the Trotsky Socialists would be similar- probably much worse- without The British Westminster System.

We're a federation - independently governed states
working together under federal government structure.
And the structure of the Australian Senate draws heavily
on the US model of the Senate.