Sometime contributor to OLO, David Leyonhjelm, although out of politics, has kindly provided information on just “how much debt the government has racked up for EACH of us believing, rightly that it can be difficult to translate billion dollar figures in a way that the debt is relevant to us personally.

In 2018, then Senator Leyonhjelm convinced the government to include per capita debt in budget papers. The information seems to have been “missed” by the good old mainstream media.

However, Mr. Leyonhjelm is able to advise us mushrooms that the debt is now $28,036 per person, and it will increase to $33,950 in 2024-25 - averaged over 25 million Australians . But, as not all of us pay income tax, the debt for the 14.7 million people who do is close to double the amount, each.

The Intergenerational Report projects that the debt will remain above $30,000 each for 30 years, then increase to more than $40,000 by 2055.

Leyonhjelm points out that even the unborn will still be paying interest on the debt when they end their working lives, and the debt still won’t be less. And, what about when interest rates rise, as they must, eventually.

A reduction in government spending is the main answer, but that’s not going to happen. With over half the population on government funding, politicians aren’t going to tell people that they are no longer “entitled to other people’s money”. Increased productivity? Fat chance.

David Leyonhjelm rightly believes that our “fate” will depend on whether enough of us vote for politicians and parties that are prepared to do what is needed.

The response to that is, where the hell are such politicians and parties? There is nobody resembling such people in Australia at the present time.

How much should we pay our politicians?

How much should we pay our politicians?
Foxy,
About half of what they're getting now & no Bureaucrat & high ranking Academics should get more than the Prime Minister.
Research scientists should get normal Public Service Pay & if they make a significant discovery they should get a bonus.
Anyone who thinks they deserve more are most welcome to put their merits on the table for the highest bidder in private enterprise !
Medical staff should be graded between Tradesman & a Govt Minister.
Young unemployed should serve in a National Service until they find employment. People who don't put in any effort to learn English have to accept Labourer wages.
Prices & Wages/salary freeze must be put in place very soon.
Either flat tax or Transaction Tax must also be implemented before long.
There's too much fine-tuning needed to mention in a little 350 word post.

Hi individual,

I totally agree with you. Some salaries and perks
are just out of control. What gets me is that
those who really work hard like our health care
workers struggle to treat the growing numbers
of patients and they don't get paid well. A cut in
services for them would mean a decrease in staff
in an already struggling to cope industry.

So many aged care workers for example are forced to
manage infection control and care while also severely
depleted of staff - which means residents are going without
basic care including food, wound care, and bathing.
While our politician's salaries are not being cut.

I wonder if David Leyonhjelm's suggestion of
cuts in spending would involve his own salary?
And would he be prepared to put his money where his mouth is?

Politicians' pay is not responsible for the debt, and David Leyonhjelm is no longer a politician, which is a pity because, although he is a bit of an oddbod, he has a better brain than most of the galahs who keep being re-elected by equally backward voters. And he didn't suggest cuts in anyone's salary

Politicians' pay is not responsible for the debt,
ttbn,
So ! All Public Servants are overpaid when lined up against those who do more work ! This is not to say there isn't a possibility of two or three Public Servants working beyond their obligation. We can only generalise when it comes to people being employed for their "qualifications" rather than their actual usefulness & need.
Big Dollars should need to be earned not merely given because of some questionable Uni ticket.
Those high-end medicos, armed Forces, engineers et al are definitely entitled to above average pay but then so should the service people who are grossly under-rated without whom many a professional would be left out in the cold !
Most of the high salaries are not warranted at all !

individual,

We all have our opinions on who should be paid what but, seriously, the wages of public servants and politicians are not the cause of debt: that's down to the borrowing and spending, and all the handouts and bad decisions made by these people, who would be idiots no matter what they got paid. We simply don't have the best people in government and the public sector no matter what they are paid.

ttbn,
Over 25-35% of overpaid on the public payroll is not the cause but it greatly contributes to the country running low on savings ! As for inadequates being in power we can only count our lucky stars the other mob's not in at this stage but they're doing a brilliant job in interfering & social sabotage.

A reduction in government spending was what was being
suggested as the answer in the opening post of this
discussion.

Translated that would end up being a cut
in possibly essential services like aged care and
hospitals and even possibly our general health scheme
like Medicare and or even pensions.

Therefore I brought
up the suggestion - to start cuts in government
spending with politician's salaries instead of
essential services. And because it
was David Leyonhjelm who wrote the article on our
government debt - instead of even thinking about other cuts
polititian's salaries just might make these guys think
twice before cutting what we actually do need to survive.

Cutting our debt is all very well - but so is living
healthy and happy lives. Which should be available to
everyone - not just a select few on high salaries.

If you don't like stores runnning out of basics or
waiting in line for food and medical care - you're not
going to like socialism - which cutting government spending
will cause.

Still this is only my opinion. I think some people enjoy
complaining almost as much as they enjoy doing nothing
about it.

individual,

Government salaries are chicken feed compared to the money this government is blowing. It really surprises me that you have fallen for the 'we are better off with the Liberals than we would be with Labor' mantra. That one is well and truly worn out. There is not a cigarette paper between the two these days.

One of the beauties of conservatism is the connection between the past, the present and the future, something that the Liberal Party no longer honours: they are throwing future generations to the wolves, just like the socialists. And, just like the socialists, they will run out of other people's money soon enough. Perhaps we need to accept that they are socialists, not just like them. They have certainly outspent Labor.

As Leyonhjelm, not me, points out, the money spent on the interest on the debt comes from the same bucket that provides pensions, childcare, defence, health, education, the NDIS, and all the things that make for a fair, just and safe society, "Money that could fund an increase in age pensions or unemployment benefits, or equip the ADF with modern weapons, will be required to pay interest."

I actually agree with ttbn on this topic; "the wages of public servants and politicians are not the cause of debt: that's down to the borrowing and spending, and all the handouts" I believe the Morrison government panicked with economic support when Covid hit, running up a trillion dollar debt in no time. Most programs including 'Jobkeeper' the jewel in the crown, were nothing more than a wasteful cash splash to appease fear stricken voters and business. I agree borrowing was necessary to maintain the economy, but that borrowing/investment should have be targeted so to give Australia long term benefit and long term sustainable outcomes. Some say, "Oh! but there was a short term economic emergency" and I agree but that showed how Australia has no economic emergency plan to deal with crises, other than some sort of wasteful cash splash.

In good times business, including banks, big corporations, small business, landlords etc, benefit enormously from our economic system, why was it they had to be protected from any adverse economic impact when things went wrong. Is not one of the principles of "free enterprise" risk taking, is that not why we tolerate business making trillions from the collective efforts of all of us? Where was the risk for business during this pandemic, none, it was protected by socialist government intervention.

In our own circumstance, last year the wife and I waived our rent for three months on our investment property in Sydney, with no requirement or expectation of collecting back rent in the future. Our tenants were genuinely on hard times, which I checked personally and did not rely on the agent, that our tenants 3 Indian girl students were in no position to pay rent. I'm no saint, it was the wife's insistence. Our agents attitude was by law when the tenants back on their feet they can pay back rent. As we agreed would that rent make much difference to us, no not really. As for the agent and his commission, the wife said tell him, he can take double commission for three months, she would hate to see his Volvo run out of fuel or something. The wife's attitude was we do well out of our investment in good times, we can afford to take a hit in bad times.

Government salaries are chicken feed compared to the money this government is blowing
ttbn,
Salaries are the major expense in anything we do as a society. Be it paying some morons for doing sfa or paying manufacturers in other countries because our lot's too heavy on the purse, in the end it's all about affordability. Some Unions are always pushing for more despite the fact that their members become unaffordable to employers, Australia is the employer of our politicians & we can't afford them much longer.
Cutting services worsens the dilemma. A cut in wages/salaries would be a good start because it would bring about a drop in costs just as demands for higher wages/salaries inevitably always results in higher prices.
We need to get away from using other nation's manufacturers as our suppliers, we need to manufacture here AGAIN !
COVID-19 is only in its baby steps, just wait for some volatile variants to take hold. How will we fight that, raise wages/salaries ??
People aren't demonstrating because they can't work, they're demonstrating because they're running out of funds.
The individual cost to Australian Govt Debt must be the responsibility of all who live here, not just the workers. I find it astonishing how quiet the unions remained throughout the pandemic. There are no recommendations from any of them to work on a solution for the good of the Nation.

waived our rent for three months
Paul1405,
If you can do it so should big income earners in Govt do with their immoral salaries !

The Gerry Harvey corporation pocketing $22 million in 'Jobkeeper' whilst paying big bonuses and making record profits. Then having Harvey thumb his nose at all decent Australians, with the sarcastic line; "I pay taxes (stiff you)" crims go to jail for stealing $22! This was a typical glaring example of entitlement from an over blown grub. BUT he got away with it!

OK. With the help of DL, I've pointed out how much our spendthrift government is costing us. I'm not arguing about what money should or should not be spent on, but borrowing to spend it should stop. I doubt that it will. We have a government which seems to have turned its back - under two leaders now - on the very principles that has seen it elected more times than the alternative, and that alternative is useless in opposition. Eighty percent of voters are ostriches. The odds are against change, mainly because of those ostriches.

Some valid points have been raised about long-term
planning and being prepared for dire situations.
We have the pandemic as a good example.

Why did it take so long for the federal and state
governments to acknowledge workplace spread in
hospitals and aged care, or for masks to be made
mandatory in these settings. Why weren't these
governments doing more to put in safeguards in facilities
against COVID. Why was there no infection control plan or
staffing plan in place in case of an outbreak?

A blame game is not the answer while exhausted staff
and health care workers struggle to treat the growing
numbers of patients.

The same goes for our government debt.
Long-term planning is key. I'm not an economist, but
surely there's enough of them around to be able to
advise our governments on these issues and cutting
essential services to me at least does not seem like
the answer.

Govt on both sides have been operating on a Harvey Norman tactic for way too long & everyday consumers just lapped it up. Well, guess what ? This can't go on any longer.
Govt needs to address the tax system, rid us of negative gearing & start with getting some discipline back starting in the classroom.
If you're only in for the money then use your merit to make it, don't ask Taxpayers to fund you !
Spread the wealth among those who create it ! The others should just be glad they're in Australia !

Expressing the debt as a per capita figure doesn't make it relevant to us personally, but it may give some people the FALSE IMPRESSION that it's relevant to them personally. More so if you express it as the portion paying income tax at present (even though nearly everyone has or will at some time in their lives).

It may FOOL THEM people thinking that they, or their children or grandchildren (or any generation in the future) will have to pay the debt off. The reality's very different: there's not even an obligation to pay it down.

Don't get me wrong: there are circumstances where it's desirable for the government to run surpluses. Peter Costello was right to do so even though he didn't understand the reasons for it. There will NEVER EVER be a situation in which the government is unable to borrow more. But when inflation reappears, tightening fiscal policy is a better way to control it than raising interest rates.

Right now, though, inflation is low so there's no good reason to tighten fiscal policy. And I wouldn't trust the projections of the Intergenerational Report - there are so many unknowns that they're not worth the silicon they're stored on!

indvidual,

It "cant go on any longer", you think. But you and I both know that it can and it will go on as long as voters - some of them who post here - allow it to.

And while public servants’ wages are up for discussion, how about recognising the fact that all public servants are not sitting in air conditioned offices.
There are those in hot workshops tied to machines and others, labourers, out in the open in hot and cold, such as the dedicated blokes who travel the country attending to war graves.
I was talking to one such a few days ago as he was on his rounds of far flung graves in small town and where there were once towns.

Re the politician salary rubbish. In total we pay around $55 million in Federal politician salaries yearly. That is around 0.004% of the current debt. Or around 0.2% of the yearly interest bill on the debt.

If we throw in state and local pollies salaries then the figure becomes around 0.45% of the interest bill.

That is, if we stopped paying ALL pollies in Australia it would cover less than half of one percent of the yearly interest cost.

So cutting pollie salaries to address the debt issue works in the same way as cutting toe-nails addresses the obesity issue.

_______________________________________________________________

We are never going to get out of this debt. Never. No party even wants to try and if any did try they'd be voted out of office yesterday. Because the solution involves two broad areas the Australian public don't want to go.

In the mid-1980s, Labor finance minister Peter Walsh, once described as the last true socialist ever elected to parliament, was tasked with getting on top of the Hawke government budget problems. He identified "200 bloody programmes that couldn't be justified on equity grounds". He proposed cutting or slowly defunding them. But it was too hard and never happened.

If there were 200 then, there'd be 2000+ now. Stop funding elite sport. Stop funding the arts. Close the Federal education bureaucracy. Curtail foreign aid. And 1000s more like that. But it'll never happen.

On the other hand, we should be expanding our national income. Immediately authorise fracking throughout the nation. Ditto GM foods. Coal. Bauxite. Remove telecommunication protections. Remove development restrictions.

But none will be done.

So the solution will be more borrowing supplemented by inflation and currency devaluation.

Eventually that will stop working and the cuts will be implemented. Those who lose will be those with the least political clout. The favour groups will be protected. Think Venezuela.

Its going to be a rough few decades. Try to make sure your income/wealth is protected against inflation and currency devaluation.

Dear mhaze,

Chirp, chirp, chirp mate. Singing from a hard right song sheet as usual.

This years budget announced a further 8 billion in tax cuts on top of the 25 billion from the last round and there is more in the pipeline.

Liberal party ideology is what will be driving the squeeze not the responsible provision of services.

Is Mise,

Good point. But they are nor "real" public servants. In my day they were called 'daily paids', although they were paid fortnightly like the "real" public servants, and things would have ground to a halt if they weren't around much quicker than if the office wallahs went missing.

mhaze,

Thanks for pointing that out to people who will always think that anyone who is paid more than they are gets too much.

I don't know if Walsh was the last socialist politician, but he was one of the last decent politicians in this country.

Hey ttbn,
I find that the only people who think you're doing alright financially;
- are the people who perceive you to have more than them.

They'll be the first ones to bring up money.
- Sometimes it's just a little side comments...
Yet the people who have more than you do would never act that way.

I haven't cost the government much during covid.
I haven't even had a single covid test once during the entire pandemic.

Oh and if you want a Lamborghini, do this:

Trade crypto derivatives with leverage.
Learn how to short and long Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies
http://youtu.be/VGLKt3GNIec

people who will always think that anyone who is paid more than they are gets too much.
ttbn,
I don't know anyone that thinks like that. What it is all about is that the nation can no longer afford putting up prices to follow the salaries !
It's like someone building a posh home in an old street & presto up goes the rates for everyone else.
It's a mentality that has brought us to this point with no solution in sight. Lower salaries will guarantee more local enterprise.
Dog chasing it's tail comes to mind, no brains required, only greed.

Indy,

By how much do you propose we cut the Aged Pension? 10%, 20%, 50%, your call. Answer the question and you might have some credibility.

Paul1405,
I didn't think that not even you were capable of being so insipid. The Pension is already below the minimum wage plus it isn't a wage/salary in the first place. Just what is it you don't understand about the term high salary ?
By the way if you want us who already paid for our Pension to take a cut then how much a cut should Welfare in the indigenous communities be cut ? Tell us us that & you score yourself a quarter oz of credibility.
If you believe a minimum wage earner should take a cut but you Public servants on high salaries should not then you're an even bigger hypocrite than the lier you are on other matters.

Indy, you know the big lie; "us who already paid for our Pension" That is a false claim, your pension/welfare is paid out of todays revenue/borrowings. Provide evidence you paid for your aged welfare in the past. The $500 bonuses paid to aged welfare during the pandemic was a political sop and a total waste of money, it did nothing for the economy. Introduce my idea of a National Seniors Service, and with some income cutting and soup kitchens, green stamps, $25 billion in cash handouts can be saved immediately! You would be up for a little "road maintenance work" would you not? Some people deserve to be paid $10,000/week, others are overpaid on aged welfare. Its all about productivity.

BTW nice attempt at deflection.

Moneybags Morrison (on over $500k) got stuck into part Age Pensioners when he was Treasurer, and has now halved dividends from private pensions because his "experts" told him the stock market would be badly affected by Covid, and capital must be preserved, when the market has actually boomed. Not satisfied with overseeing the greatest loss of freedoms ever experienced in Australia, he has pauperised the elderly while tossing billions of borrowed money at where he thinks the votes are, the evil bastard.

ttbn, there is no doubt the Morrison government panicked, all it could see was it being booted out of office early 2022. Morrison decided the only way to save his political hide was to borrow and burn money bigtime. My little example of Gerry Harvey pocketing $22 million, and then thumbing his nose at the rest of us, that was bad enough, but to have Treasurer Frydenburg say "too bad so sad" was indicative of the governments attitude to waste, it was a cash splash free for all. Here we are 18 months later with absolutely nothing to show for it, except a trillion dollar debt. We can't even say it was one hell off a piss up, and we've got a terrific hangover!

If Australia wants a strong economy and a high standard of living then as a progressive socialist I believe borrowing is necessary at times, but that borrowing has to be targeted for a sustainable purpose with a long term payback to the nation. As a socialist I see government intervention into the economy as most necessary at times both to provide the necessary support for those that can't genuinely fend for themselves, and for the more productive long term investment which private capital is unwilling or unable to provide. Taxation only should be used to finance the day to day cost of running the nation, that includes welfare and other support to health and education etc. Realistically if we were an uncaring society there would be no aged pensioners, once usefulness was extinguished then euthanasia would be the choice, but we are not such an uncaring society, so we support and let people live out those non-productive years with our financial help.

your pension/welfare is paid out of todays revenue/borrowings.
Paul1405,
Our Taxes paid for you & your parents, we put the money there for you to squander. Sad, you couldn't manage & have to resort to lying !

The Australian Financial Review reports that the Treasure has misspent "$25 billion of taxpayers’ money" on Jobkeeper, which should be renamed Votekeeper.

While I maintain that government salaries have nothing to do with government debt, the $92 million in bonuses paid to senior Australia Post employers (SMH) last year should have taxpayers providing such extravagance up in arms.

There is also the Holgate fiasco: sacked for spending $20K on watches, the woman has now been paid a million dollars of our money for being sacked!

The Heckle & Jeckle resembling duo of Morrison and Freydenberg are really crap with money - your money.

Well there's light at the end of the tunnel.
This country will be such a better place once the Afghani's arrive.

How could anybody not think Australia will be a much better place once the people of Afghanistan call our place home?

AC,

More unnecessary costs to put up the debt.

There is absolutely no good reason to bring these people here in the same way as there was no good reason for our military to go there.

Scott Morrison stated " We'll be able to provide
around 3,000 visas." for the resettling of Afghan
refugees as part of the existing humanitarian intake:
13,750 refugees from all countries around the world.

Canada and the UK have agreed to additional intakes
of 20,000 to deal with the crisis for those at risk.
Morrison said we shall not be increasing our intake
number.

Hey ttbn,
I was being sarcastic.

We will undoubtedly end up taking in a number of Afghan refugees in addition to those who we've agreed to take because they worked with the Australian forces/embassy and are therefore threatened by the Islamists.

Let's hope things go better than it did in Austria.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/ive-worked-refugees-decades-europes-afghan-crime-wave-mind-21506?amp

And that we make some effort to vet them....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/23/people-posing-direct-threat-to-uk-found-among-potential-kabul-evacuees?fbclid=IwAR3hX-lPF40QASEzdxDuzsRpOj0QTzrZhQMRldLTbBWKTtSnLLnUyxExz2w

mhaze,
Surely that's just right-wing propaganda ?
Makes you wonder why these incidents are not reported by our ABC/SBS. I have known for years & about 15 years ago I went to Vienna & was strongly advised not to venture into the former social/cultural district because the Somalis have taken that over & not even the Police go there.
Same situation is developing here & anyone who watches The Drum, ABC/SBS & doesn't deduce what's going on must be utterly devoid of the sense of observation.
The saddest part is that we're being shafted by our own, by the hypocritical traitors in our Judas-Bureaucracy.
Also rather sad is the fact that the Urban Aborigine community is letting itself being used by the movement.

Yes, AC I know you were being sarcastic.

I'm not: it is imbecilic to bring - not just allow - cultures totally unlike our own into our country. But it is now clear, after experiencing the problems of multiculturalism, but still persisting with it, that our politicians are imbeciles.

As one of the few Australian politicians who is not a imbecile, Mark Latham says:

"For 30 years Australia’s political class has promoted the idea of laissez-faire, celebratory multiculturalism, with no boundaries, no rules and no English. The impact on the rule of law has been devastating. If someone moves to a country that doesn’t expect or even encourage them to speak the national language, they are likely to think, ‘This place must have no rules, they let you do what you want, plus pay welfare for it’."

While some of these Afghans might have been translators who can speak English, they will have their families with them, and we know nothing about them. And English or no English, you would search for a long time to find a culture more alien to ours than this lot.

Last week I heard an Australian Somali Community leader lament on ABC Radio how Australians always applaud Somalis here when they do well & only when they do well they're referred to as Australians. However, as soon as Somalis do something wrong they're referred to as Somalis & not Australians even though most were born here.
All I can say to that we should refer to them as Somalis as long as they insist on having a Somali Community here & refer to themselves as such !
That goes for any group white or black or brindle.

Oh. boo hoo. What do they expect. As you say, they - and other multi cultists - are always referring to their 'community', as are the idiots who thought it was a good idea to bring them here. Actually, I don't know why anyone would refer to them as Australian at all.

individual,

I think it's only natural for groups like the Somali
to stick together when they are not accepted into
the mainstream community. That goes for any group that's
"different." Even Australians stick together in London,
for example. It's perfectly normal. This passes with
time with future generations due to greater mixing and
inter-marriage.

ttbn, individual,
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-20/abdulfatah-awow-charged-with-stalking-woman/100390368

You can rely on the word Somali to bring out the Forums haters and racists, it must be their black skin that does it.

'it must be their black skin that does it'.

What's that? rape and sexual assault?
I don't know, maybe we should see the statistics?

Who does that?
Takes a job with the government, then stalks and enters homes on false pretenses,
- then blackmails and tries to sexually assault the clients / customers in their homes?

- Who gave their details to contract tracers in good faith and trust that their personal information would not be misused.
Take a look at this guy - this is who the government hires?

- Did they do any background checks or anything to see that he was of good character before trusting him with peoples private and sensitive information?

- Another reason to support digital resumes where skills, background / work history and character can't be faked.

As crap as I am, I've given you all the answers before of how we fix the mess.

And Paul1405,
I've openly stated that I don't support multiculturalism as an agenda.
And I don't support 100k + foreigners whose place of origin, backgrounds and beliefs make them less than compatible with our nation normal ways of doing things, being sent here by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

You can't expect me to automatically love something that I just don't even like.
Beyond that, I don't necessarily treat any individual differently or disrespectfully simply because I think their not from here.
- I don't know what else you want from me.

AC, I actually made reference to the behaviour of Abdulfatah Awow in a post the other day, mentioned him by name, before you brought it up. I to seen it as a failing of the system. What I didn't do was extrapolate from the fact Awow from his photo appears to be "Somalian" or whatever, which is not mentioned in the article, therefore tar all "Somalians" with the same brush. I'm sure the alleged actions of Awow could have been perpetrated just as easily by someone of another race. Can you show evidence that it is a systemic act only perpetrated by "Somalians".

I judge multiculturalism on the success of the vast majority, not on the failure of a small minority, but you are entitled to see it differently.

the word Somali to bring out the Forums haters and racists
Paul1405,
Yep, doesn't take you long to exercise your mentality !

In the meantime, the latest news is out on how dumb our kids are compared with the rest of the world, and the Marxists teacher unions are fighting tooth and nail against Naplan, which is showing how dumb the kids are, and how incompetent and politically motivated the teachers are.

ttbn,
yes, 95% of teachers are solid Labor ! Easy to see why.

AC,

You ask "Who does that?" You could also ask who guns down 51 innocent people in Christchurch. The answer is very sick people.

Indy,

You show your true colour, or lack of when you bang that racist drum of yours. So you were tuning into the ABC were you, listing for some dirt no doubt, and you got it with a Somali community leader, and he's black, is he one of your Urban Jungle Bunnies, you sling off at? I"m sure if he was the Norwegian community leader we wouldn't hear boo from you.

I"m sure if he was the Norwegian community leader we wouldn't hear boo from you.
Paul1405,
If an Australian Norwegian community leader waffles on about Norwegian crims being persecuted let us know please so I can give you my opinion on it.
As it is, you're the only one who bases every tiny bit of inconvenient truth on Race. Does it make you feel better ?
Perhaps if you familiarised yourself with the concept of integrity you might find it somewhat easier to accept your own silliness !

You could also ask who guns down 51 innocent people
Paul1405,
I can do one better, about 90 in Kabul by the mob you support.

Nah, Indy,

You wont find any reference to me supporting the mob in Afghanistan, other than the innocent Afghans, men, women and children, who are caught up in a terrible situation, and have been for years. People you have no sympathy for at all. When I call you a racists, which you are, you feel outraged as your own feeling is you are no such thing, just look at your negative posts. You rationalise your racism as being the justifiable truth. You let your guard down when something I posted probably provoked you, and you called me a "concrete jungle bunny" knowing I have some Aboriginal heritage. The same applies to you collecting aged welfare, you oppose welfare perse so collecting it yourself you have to justify it in some way, so you create a false premise like; "I paid for my pension when I was working". Its a fact there has never been a meaningful pension fund in Australia, but for you to justify your position you simply created it, and sincerely believe it no doubt.

Paul1405,
Git !

Gladys "We're going to be the 'Living with Covid' model"

That's a really good way to say:
"I have really totally screwed this thing up big-time, and I'm trying to pretend I'm on top of things"

Let's go back a month.

Gladys Berejiklian says she needs a COVID 'crystal ball' to end Sydney's lockdown — these people could have one
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-24/nsw-covid-lockdown-end-date-pedicted-by-mathematical-models/100315538

"The first, from the University of Melbourne's Populations Intervention Unit shows Sydney's 14-day average number of new cases could be brought down to five by around August 28.

The model predicts it could be as early as August 16 or as late as September 6 when variable factors are included in calculations."

- Well the academics completely screwed that one up.
They must've forgotten to factor in something into their calculations.
"Oops, I forgot to carry the four, my mistake"

The morons are playing with peoples lives, and they have absolutely no idea what they're doing.
And it would've been better to lock the country down and ban entry to outside visitors 18mths ago, than all of this.
That's my assessment.

http://www.afr.com/policy/health-and-education/nsw-to-show-the-nation-how-to-live-with-covid-19-20210829-p58mv8

>>Ms Berejiklian said the growing case numbers were “not relevant”.

“The language we have used in dealing with COVID-19 might seem confronting because [NSW] is the first state that has had to make these decisions and learn to live with COVID-19,” she said.

“But this is the way for all of Australia.”

With six deaths on Sunday bringing the outbreak’s toll to 89 and NSW’s coronavirus-related death total to 145 since the pandemic began, Ms Berejiklian told people to have “perspective”.

She pointed to rising deaths overseas and how much worse NSW would have been if vaccines were not available.

University of Melbourne epidemiologist Antony Blakely said there were some positive signs for NSW despite the 1218 new infections.

He said the nine-day rolling average percentage changes for cases was sitting at about 4.4 per cent as of Saturday. This was down from a peak around August 17 of 10.3 per cent.<<

So you've got a premier who deferred to these academic fools,
- Has completely screwed everything up, and wants to decide the path for the rest of the country, she only ever cared about vaccinations, and wasn't ever really committed to suppressing the virus in the beginning.
She's screwed everything up, right from the Ruby Princess.
And she's still deferring to the same academics, that screwed things up totally last month.
What faith do we have in them?

18 months on, no dedicated quarantine facilities, with the temporary ones still right in the centre of our capital cities.
- All the fault of someone who thinks case numbers aren't even relevant.

It has been revealed 20,000 of Morrisons mates and cronies increased their profits last financial year while at the same time bludging 'Jobkeeper' off the taxpayer. Gerry Harvey pocketed $22 million while his junk stores made record profits and paid big bonuses and dividends to the top end of town.

Hey Paul1405,
I'd bet ALL OF THEM, held staff meetings, all doom and gloom, talking about cutbacks, potential lost jobs and wages and how they all had to pull together for the good of the team, and I'd bet at the end of the day, the people at the front line, dealing with potential covid infected customers, got not 1 extra dollar or even any recognition, above the doom and gloom speech.

I'd bet when the numbers came in showing massive profits, they they did not offer anything extra to the people who loyally carried them there.

Hi AC,

From the ATO, the total cost of overpayment of 'Jobkeeper' was $300 million. According to my Old Man, who had some knowledge of Norman Ross stores back in the day believed Gerry Harvey wouldn't give away the smell of his fart, does that tell you something. For me the "5 year interest free plan" is sucker bait. Sign up the vulnerable to credit deals for all the junk they can't afford or really don't need, at inflated prices. Then when they miss one payment which they invariably do, slug them with massive interest and charges. I don't go into Harvey Norman store, if they were giving away free TV's I wouldn't want one.

Years back, I was shopping for a washing machine. Got a no nonsense price from Retravision, $550 cash. Off to Harvey Norman to double check, the wife and I looked like a couple of suckers. There is the exact same machine with massive advertising as an in store super special at $799. The salesmen pounced, then as usual I though I'll play the game. First it was the offer of interest free, but only at the overprice of $799. Then I asked; "What's your best cash price"... a bit humming and haring and he agreed to knock $50 off. I said; "Pal, I just got a cash price $550 from Retravision, here's his card with it on the back" Quick as a flash the sales guy says; "I'll price match that." I said a "kind" goodbye and have never been back since.

Hi Paul1405,

I figured out years back how to play the electrical retailers off at their own game, and get the best price, every time.
I'll tell you all how I do it.

First you want to have a look around and find exactly what you want.
I usually do this online, but some people prefer to go and look at things for themselves.

So if you go into the store, know the salespeople are going to pounce on you.
Do NOT make a deal at this point.
Make the deal over the phone, after you've already decided what you want.

Once you know what you want:
Look up best prices online.
I used to use these people to get a best price, but they're closed now.
http://closed.theelectricdiscounter.com.au/

I used to get a best price from them, and then CALL to my local store and say this "I'm after x item, I got a quote from electrical discounter for x amount, but I really don't want to drive over to Logan, if you can match or beat the price and are just 5 minutes away"
Then you say this: (force them into a yes or no answer)
"Can you do x item for x amount" (yes or no)
- Now you see, I know the salespeople get paid a bonus on the total value of their sales every month.
I know that they will likely say yes even if they only make a dollar or two, because they want the sale added to their total.
So you force them into that yes or no question.

Ok since the electrical discounter closed, I wasn't able to get as good best prices anymore, so this is what I'd do:

- Just make up a price and bs them, and still force them into that yes or no position -

(btw were talking whitegoods and browngoods worth $500 or more)

Don't do a deal in the store, they already know and think they've got you if you're there already.
Do the deal on the phone, once you already know what you want.

These buy now pay later schemes are a trap. I was reading about a schoolgirl who made a dozen 'Afterpay' purchases from her 16th birthday money, the girl didn't even have a job, therefore no ability to repay. Seems Afterpay is not covered by consumer credit laws. Others who spend all their pay on frivolous online fashion shopping. There is another scheme advertised where they will advance you your pay, no doubt with a sizable fee involved. Also those pay day loans with up to 1600% pa. interest. Loan sharking is not dead its mainstream these days.

The latest blatant waste of money is the $632 million going to descendant of the Stolen Generation, so called. Not the alleged victims themselves, but their modern descendants who are also traumatised, it is claimed. Sob. Sob.

Hey Paul1405,
I often use Afterpay, I've made 64 purchases using it but I'm trying to get out of the habit of buying something and having to pay for it later.
I've never paid a single cent in extra fees, but I make sure I pay my fortnightly payments manually online rather than waiting for them to take the payment themselves, that way I know I'm always up to date.

- They've now increased my limit to $3000, with no upfront payment;
First payment 2 weeks after purchase, they reward you with a higher limit and rewards (in the form of discounts) if you don't have late payments.

I've gotten some great bargains using it too, sometimes they have 15% or 20% off, which works out great if the item is already heavily discounted or on sale. Discounts on top of discounts.

Just today I got an offer from Zip-Pay (another service I have $1000 limit)
- They've offered $20 off if I spend $100 at Big W.
But I will admit to once not paying my monthly payment on time (3 days late) and I had to pay a $6 fee.

There's quite a number of these services, Humm, Openpay etc.
- But I've only used Afterpay and ZipPay.

You can also buy gift cards at certain places, I can access them through the Suncorp app on my phone.
I bought a bed from Super Amart about a year ago.
Worked out a deal for the bed I wanted, then after all was said and done, purchased a 6% off $500 Super Amart gift card from the Suncorp App and saved another $30 on top.

There are ways you can save an extra few dollars here and there, if you're willing to take the time to do so.

AC then there are the scamer's;

The other day a call, recorded message; "Your Apple Iphone is being dispatched by Amazon tomorrow, if you wish to cancel this $799 purchase press 1". If you do press 1 someone will soon be asking for your credit card details to make the "refund".

If you are interested in government salaries and the people getting them, here's one for you:

That dill, General Angas Campbell who was up to his neck in the badmouthing of our SAS solders along with Brereton and Morrison, gets paid $1,063,118 pa. His British counterpart gets $458,810; the U.S. one, $755,900. Campbell is well over-paid.

The creep still keeps his money although the allegations against our trips have been proved to be wrong.

Economist Judith Sloan believes that JobKeeper will rank as "the single most irresponsible and reckless spending program ever undertaken by a government". It makes the Pink Batts and Building the Education Revolution programs "look completely amateurish in terms of government spending for dubious benefit."

Ms. Sloan says there is a very strong case for a future government to hold a royal commission into JobKeeper to ensure that such blatant and inequitable waste is never repeated.

"Based on hasty and commercially naive advice concocted by Treasury", taxpayer money was snapped up by businesses that were good at the system rather than being hurt by Covid. Not only private companies scooped up the loot, but "private clubs, private schools, barristers’ chambers, trade unions and plenty of other chancers" got their snouts in the trough.

A payment of $1500 per fortnight per worker was made whether or not the worker had actually been stood down or their hours reduced. "A large number of recipient businesses didn’t actually reduce their workforces but received the payment notwithstanding. "Around $12.5 billion was paid to businesses that did not suffer any decline in sales revenue. Some actually saw sales increase"

And the "tenured, well-remunerated dolts in Treasury" never thought to include a claw-back provision whereby businesses that had received payment but had not experienced commercial damage would be required to repay the grant.

And the Morrison government won't release details of the scheme.