The Forum > General Discussion > What Price The Liberal Party?
What Price The Liberal Party?
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Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 14 August 2021 4:53:18 PM
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Integrity of the Liberal Party has been lost.
The Labor Party has Shorten hovering behind Albo. What chance of middle of the road sensible government does Australia have? Posted by JF Aus, Sunday, 15 August 2021 5:24:14 PM
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David Flint agrees that it is increasingly difficult to distinguish between the two major parties. They are both made up of an "homogeneous political class"; policies differ only cosmetically. The sameness disenfranchises voters more than it does in any comparable country; and the "near-identical" policies have been disasters: defence, education, water, debt, immigration, and slavishness to the man-made climate change con.
Flint says that, because of the duopoly of policy, the winning party at the next election will depend on which 'leader' more closely "approximates a pie-eating Aussie at the footy". Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 15 August 2021 6:33:48 PM
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Which leader approximates an Aussie pie-eater
at the footy? Bob Katter would win that one! He stated on Facebook: "They're now serving vegan pies at the football in Melbourne. I haven't heard of anything more anti-Australian. Let's fight back and continue to eat Aussie beef!" Is either Scott Morrison or Albo a vegan? Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 15 August 2021 7:30:48 PM
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cont'd ...
Did David Flint say what kind of pie? Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 15 August 2021 7:32:39 PM
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As long as the majority of voters doesn't curb their wants for nothing in return, the politicians will behave similarly !
Posted by individual, Sunday, 15 August 2021 8:53:47 PM
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Australian politics is about the preferred two parties.
Whose preference? Posted by JF Aus, Sunday, 15 August 2021 8:58:20 PM
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Australian politics is about the preferred two parties.
JF Aus, Well, I see it as supporting the lesser evil ! Posted by individual, Monday, 16 August 2021 7:39:01 AM
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Individual,
Yes but who controls the two party system? It's supposed to be a democratic system. A lesser evil could be to develop a patchwork coalition like Israel did recently to be rid of controlled power. A coalition of middle of the road fair and decent independents and individuals resigned from existing parties could join in teamwork to form a patchwork coalition in Australia. Surely. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/14/whos-who-in-israels-new-patchwork-coalition-government Posted by JF Aus, Monday, 16 August 2021 9:13:57 AM
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It would be great if we had politicians being chosen
on merit not on party membership. Posted by Foxy, Monday, 16 August 2021 9:48:16 AM
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Supporting the "lesser evil" (individual) is all we have been doing, and all we can do, given our preferential voting system, which precludes us from giving bad politicians a fright. Besides, the Liberals are as evil as Labor these days; and the average voter is either lacking the intelligence to place preferences where they might work, or they are just plain lazy and disinterested in their own futures. We can, of course, refuse to vote for any of the bludgers. If enough of us did that, it could make them think and perhaps look for better quality candidates - or, better still, have candidates front up to the public and show why they should be nominated in the first place.
In the meantime, I will be again writing "none of these" on the HR paper, and spending the time on voting below the line on the Senate paper - no party politicians included if possible. Posted by ttbn, Monday, 16 August 2021 10:35:31 AM
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>Morrison is so pragmatic that nobody knows what his values, if any, are.
True - I certainly wouldn't bet on him having any. But Aussies still remember how disastrous it was for the country when the Liberal Party was led by a PM who did have distinct values. Posted by Aidan, Monday, 16 August 2021 11:10:52 AM
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I've always believed Federal politicians should be selected from and voted by members to represent Business groups, Unions, agraculture, mining, transport, education, national security, energy, citizens etc instead of an areas of just voters. That way all voices are heard and represented. The only ones voted on by everyone is the Citizens representative.
Posted by Josephus, Monday, 16 August 2021 2:04:03 PM
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I caught a bit of Glady's daily confessional yesterday. A journalist, talking about the new measures to reduce the ability to go outdoors, asked if the Premier/advisers had any data to show that virus transmission occurred outdoors.
(I'm guessing this is following claims from experts in the US that there's no evidence of outdoor transmission, world-wide.) Glady's agreed that she'd not seen any data that the virus or any variant was being spread while people are outdoors. So why have the rules? Because, she said, it made the police's job easier to control movement. Get that? Liberties are infringed knowingly for no better reason than it makes enforcement of other rules easier. Not quite a police state but closer than is comfortable. The current Liberal party might still make the right noises about defending freedom and liberal values. But they no longer beleive it and jettison it as they see fit. Its very true that they believe " that right of centre voters have nowhere else to go". In the main, in the end, the only issue is who you preference out of Labor and Liberal. But I decided years ago that the only way to get the Liberal PArty I want is to punish them for thinking they can dump liberal values for short-term electoral gain. So each election, I vote for any libertarian group or candidate and then, holding my nose, preference Labor Posted by mhaze, Monday, 16 August 2021 4:44:24 PM
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Our electoral system is by politicians for politicians. It is a cosy arrangement for both Liberal and Labor, and they all have more in common with each other than they do with the people they are supposed to be representing. They are all in it for themselves and the money they couldn’t get from a real job.
There is a Bill in the offing, thanks to a Liberal Minister, which, if successful, would see the number of members required for the registration of a political party raised from 500 to 1500. Small parties with fewer than 1500 members would have 3 months to bulk up. Party names would be regulated - possibly to stop people from confusing the Liberal Party with the Liberal Democrats. The confusion is apparently being blamed for costing the Liberals votes; and the Libs are getting pretty sensitive about publicity surrounding ‘desertions’ from the them to the Liberal Democrats, including ex-politicians and high ranking party officials. Labor would be likely to support the Bill. Labor politicians are just as interested in jobs for life as the Liberals are. And they might be thinking about the new-style DLP doing to them what the LibDems look like doing to the Liberals in the future. It might not get through the Senate. I believe that the Greens have knocked back a similar trick in time gone by; but, in my humble opinion, the only way for we plebs to maintain democracy is via the upper house. Posted by ttbn, Monday, 16 August 2021 5:05:25 PM
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Dear mhaze,
Are you really at this again? No transmission outdoors? Just like under 50s are safe? What a crock. We all remember your president holding a gathering at the Rose Garden at the White House. It was deliberately done outside for Covid reasons but a high proportion didn't wear masks. A dozen people including the president caught Covid. It certainly is a substantially smaller risk but not zero by any stretch of the imagination. Posted by SteeleRedux, Monday, 16 August 2021 5:43:55 PM
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"Glady's agreed that she'd not seen any data that the virus or any variant was being spread while people are outdoors. So why have the rules?"
This is what happens when you have incompetent fools running the show who aren't up to the job. Is she not all there? I mean was there not JUST ONE covid case in all 18mths of her states contract tracing she could've thought of at that moment, where the transmission was found to have occurred at an outdoor event? Is contract tracing not data? Or did every single person catch it inside? I'm getting overwhelmed with the amount of stupid going on. It's hard you know if you declare a 'war on stupid' things. Gladys 'Pol Pot' Berejiklian. We got out of it too easily in the beginning, and they were complacent. Delta strain has shown just how ill-prepared, lacking of forward thinking and incompetent they all really are - and have been all along. Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 16 August 2021 6:34:14 PM
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The Liberal Party lost its way decades ago with the ascendancy of Howard, Murdoch and the IPA while its preferred base became NSW/QLD over the former 'jewel in the crown' Victoria/NSW (crawling with 'immigrants' etc.).
The IPA reemerged promoting radical right libertarian socio-economic ideology with a whiff of eugenics or pining for a return to 19thC master serf relationships and the pecking order; also part of Koch global Atlas Network. Further, the LNP started replicating US 'owned' GOP eco-system of hollowing out memberships (while recruiting evangelicals, Mormons and committed Christians), branches and grounded policy to allow external actors and vested interests to lobby for policy friendly to their interests, often helped by media. This strategy also includes IPA and the Nats (from inside the coalition) acting like the Koch 'bill mill' ALEC lobbying for libertarian policies to avoid constraints on fossil fuels, regulation in general and business costs; same policies are often unpalatable to normal voters. Therefore, to form voter conservative coalitions there is need for much white nativism, targeting oldies in regional electorates, obsession with borders, fear of education (e.g. 'elites', 'climate science', men's rights, freedom of speech, CRT etc.), promoting xenophobia, border security, evangelical and other Christian 'values', prosperity gospel and otherwise encouraging us to 'amuse (or stress) ourselves to death' while being 'quiet Australians'. No sense of irony that conservative libertarians cannot be open about what they want while relying upon a mixed 'conservative' coalition to win elections. In turn allows corporate supporters to gain access to state support or subsidies, then shouting down any real or imagined dissent, but promoting their own 'freedom of speech'; a form of autocracy masquerading as 'freedom and liberty'? Posted by Andras Smith, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 1:00:10 AM
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SR wrote:
"No transmission outdoors? Just like under 50s are safe? What a crock". Well if SR had done a modicum of checking.... But then SR doesn't do checking, does he? He does outraged assertions that what he wants to be true is indeed true, then, after shown to be wrong, follows up with 10 posts trying to extricate himself from yet another error. The fruits of a little checking: "Not a single case of COVID-19 in NSW has been transmitted in an outdoor setting, health authorities have confirmed." http://www.9news.com.au/national/nsw-health-no-covid-transmission-confirmed-outdoors-during-pandemic/ea6b1847-21da-47cb-b580-d7600119a1f7 Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 8:46:38 AM
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John Roskam of the Institute of Public Affairs wonders “what will remain of the Liberal Party at the end of the Covid-19 pandemic”. He thinks that it is uncertain that they will exist in anything but name.
Under Morrison, the Liberals have given up any pretence of fiscal responsibility. Pragmatism has trumped ideology. The Liberals have so lost any relationship to freedom that it is now difficult to put the words ‘Liberal’ and ‘freedom’ in a sentence. Morrison’s government does not brook dissent. When Labor recently moved a motion condemning National’s George Christensen for expressing his objection to lockdowns and masks, Morrison and his gang (including the Nationals) agreed to the motion; Morrison saying, “My government does not support misinformation in any way, shape or form”. The ‘misinformation being supported by respected, qualified scientists. The Liberals now, it seems, take the view that any opinions and beliefs other than theirs are misinformation, although they have never sought advice from anyone but public servants with dubious qualifications. Roskam believes that there are many Liberals who agree with Christensen, but they don’t want to jeopardise their Ministerial careers under El Presidente Morrison. So they have accepted and even adopted the Labor tactics of authoritarianism to “cancel anyone who challenges the official orthodoxy”. ‘Misinformation is the label given to anything that doesn’t agree with what the government says. Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 11:17:06 AM
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Well said, ttbn.
Posted by JF Aus, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 11:51:50 AM
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ttbn,
So assuming all that to be true, who do you vote for next time around? It's all very well to wail and gnash teeth at what has happened to the Liberal Party, but if nothing changes, nothing will change. So long as their belief that those right of centre have nowhere else to go proves correct, they'll continue to treat those who prioritise freedom with contempt. So who do you vote for? Who gets the final preference - Lib or Lab? Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 1:18:39 PM
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mhaze,
As I have said here and at other times, I will do what I did at the last federal election and write "None of these" on the lower house paper, and concentrate on the Senate paper, hoping to be able to find 12 or whatever is that is required, without no party loyalties, unless, maybe, One Nation or the Liberal Democrats are listed in my state. Now, I know that many people would think its daft not to have a vote, but why would I vote when I don't fancy any of them; and given our stupid preferential system if I voted for Santa Claus, the vote would eventually get down to party politicians. But, if more people refused to vote for the rubbish nominated, it would make a difference. However, I am responsible only for myself, my conscience, and my values. I know most people won't do anything different from what they always do, and this reminds me of a movie I saw wherein a Nazi war criminal was telling a Jew and Mossad member how he held the Jewish people in contempt because they allowed four soldiers to escort hundreds of them at a time to the gas chambers. Forget the BS about how they thought they were going for a nice hot shower. They knew. But they gave up. And we are giving up too, cowering before politicians and public servants who are supposed to be serving us. So, you are probably right. They will continue to "treat our freedoms with contempt" because we let them Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 2:11:50 PM
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What used to be the original conservative Liberal Party ended with Fraser and has since been hijacked by extremists, lobbyists and corporatists.
Every criticism they utter invariably includes references to "the left" but never to "the right" because there are no longer any groups to the right of what was once considered a moderate group. They are now just another bunch of US Republican style neo-conservatives who use politics as a stepping stone to personal wealth and future secure employment. Most came from the "Young Liberals" who seem to be a group of white male privileged misogynists and desk-abusers waiting to take their turn at the top jobs. Posted by rache, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 4:14:42 PM
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Well said, rache.
Exactly. Posted by JF Aus, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 4:32:38 PM
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Surely that was a typo from rache: she meant 'no conservatives', because there are no conservatives in the Liberal party.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 5:40:46 PM
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Well said Rache.
BTW: For anyone interested - Rache is a guy. Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 6:40:22 PM
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The forums tutti frutti Nazi is cry in his been yet again about the sad demise of conservatism in the Liberal party. Well, what can one say, pray for the return of Corny Banana, or toddle off and vote for the fascists of One Nation, seems he's chosen the ON mob, cause CB not doing a second act, good luck.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 9:27:55 PM
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"BTW: For anyone interested - Rache is a guy."
Well even if I was interested, I'm already spoken for. But if I ever decide to bat for the other side, rache will be at the top of my list. Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 10:37:43 PM
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mhaze.
I don't know what to say except that I'm flattered. However I'm also spoken for and in any case not many would put up with a cranky old coot like me. Still, after all those years the current state of politics makes it very easy to "maintain the rage". Posted by rache, Wednesday, 18 August 2021 1:47:46 AM
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When you take a look at some of the grotesque creatures that sit on the government benches, Barnaby Joyce, George Christensen, Christian Porter to name but three, you wouldn't invite them into your home, why would you vote them into parliament.
Rache, I think mhaze has a soft spot for you, I believe his real name might be Michael but he likes to be called Marion. I had an uncle called Marion, he liked to be called Michael. "Well even if I was interested, I'm already spoken for." no worries mhaze, your secret is safe with us. Wo wont tell George. Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 18 August 2021 5:51:45 AM
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"no worries mhaze, your secret is safe with us. Wo wont tell George."
Well I don't mind if you tell George (whoever that is) about my being married...just don't tell my girlfriend. __________________________________________________________________ SR asserted with his usual venom that my pointing out that there was no evidence of outdoor transmission of the WuFlu was "a crock". Then I provided proof that that was the case. Normally SR would then spend 10 posts trying to cover over his error. But I guess some errors are so obvious that even SR, practised as he is, is incapable of covering up. Hands up all those surprised that he instead chose to slink away in the hope that no one would notice his ignorance. __________________________________________________________________ rache says " because there are no longer any groups to the right of what was once considered a moderate group." This is clearly wrong. There are any number of right-of-centre groups who no longer adhere to the Liberal Party eg One Nation, Liberal Democrats, but also informal groups of libertarians and assorted conservatives. Even within the Liberal Party there are groups that don't in the least support the current leadership or direction of the party but who hope that they can retake the party and return it to its proper course at some future time. Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 18 August 2021 10:35:10 AM
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The Liberal Democrats pride themselves on their anything-goes approach to freedoms rather than conservatism. Don't forget Lionbreath who used to harangue us regularly before he was tipped out of the Senate.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 18 August 2021 10:47:40 AM
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What is not true in the following, copied and pasted:
Riddle me this, Batman. This press conference may make sense now given Andrew Twiggy Forrest mines graphene… http://youtu.be/x4a05hvrQfc All roads lead back to graphene. As we already know, graphene is a super conductor. As Dr Jane Ruby stated on the Stew Peters Show, the blood of a vaccinated person under microscope showed the red blood cells strangely ‘light up’ due to the inclusion of graphene in the vaccines. http://ugetube.com/watch/what-covid-injections-do-to-your-blood-2021-07-16-dr-jane-ruby-stew-peters-video_WHWo5YWPOYBZm2H.html?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=pmd_f0b12ea2247efeb48e24854a2d74b300c5c7d47b-1628756847-0-gqNtZGzNAqKjcnBszQfi Then I found an article on an experiment done at none other than the University of California, which just so happens to include one Professor Robert (Bob) Hunt, who by pure coincidence is Australian Health Minister Greg Hunt’s brother and who receives funding through a foundation called The Hunt Lab, as does his other brother Professor John Hunt at the University of NSW. UNSW has coincidentally received millions in grants from Greg Hunt and the Federal Government. UCI ‘grant funded’ experiments discovered they could remote control the heartbeat of a mouse, speeding it up or down remotely by way of graphene. http://www.photonics.com/Articles/Graphene_Biointerface_Optically_Controls_Heart/a63489 http://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26960413/ So then I look up what could ‘light up’ or ‘activate’ graphene in respect to ‘light robotics’ and I found an existing remote control technology called LiDAR - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidar that, like graphene, has many applications. One of the applications of this LiDAR technology includes drones, just like the ones they have in Sydney right now - https://nationaldrones.com.au/drone-services/inspections/lidar/ http://spheredrones.com.au/collections/lidar?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3YDxiISr8gIVDRsrCh0Pdwq9EAAYAiAAEgLLKPD_BwE This LiDAR technology is also already in our mobile phones, pulsing out silent and unseen messages - http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/lidar-is-one-of-the-iphone-ipad-coolest-tricks-its-only-getting-better/ Continued....... Posted by JF Aus, Wednesday, 18 August 2021 12:36:21 PM
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Cont'd....
Lidar is also currently implemented in medical equipment in hospital and various therapies - http://3dheals.com/clinical-applications-of-medical-modeling-part-2-3d-scanning And just look at all the LiDAR companies in Australia - http://www.environmental-expert.com/companies/keyword-lidar-30170/location-australia So in a nutshell, my thought are the COVID-19/Delta variant ‘hot-spots’ are being targeted by LiDAR, activating those who have been vaccinated by way of drones, cameras and satellites to induce a variety of health issues including heart attacks, myocarditis, strokes, tremors and more depending on how your body reacts when the graphene is activated. This of course is then labelled a COVID-19/Delta death and they will then move onto the next ‘COVID-19 ravaged’ suburb and continue. This of course may be along with mind-control (Google graphene and mind medicine). Google Mind Medicine a ‘foundation’ created by Greg Hunt’s other brother, Peter Hunt and Mind Med, a friend of big pharma. And his other brother Steven Hunt is the Director of graphene company Sparc http://sparctechnologies.com.au/about-us/directors-and-management/ and sits on the board of the ‘Graphene Enabled Industry Transformation’. http://arcgrapheneresearchhub.com.au/people/stephen-hunt/ Peter Hunt - http://mindmedicineaustralia.org.au/board/ Robert Bob Hunt - http://www.roberthuntlab.org/ John Hunt - http://medicalsciences.med.unsw.edu.au/people/dr-john-hunt I will be removing this post soon so please screenshot or copy and paste it. You sent You sent http://rumble.com/vkwqxi-food-supply-contaminated-with-graphene-oxide.html?mref=22lbp&mrefc=3 Posted by JF Aus, Wednesday, 18 August 2021 12:39:49 PM
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There may be a perception that One Nation and the Liberal Democrats are to the right of the Liberal Party but I don't recall the Liberals actively criticizing or calling them out as being too extreme. They even have extremists and crazies within their own party.
In fact it was the rise of One Nation that made "kids overboard" Howard break convention and play the race and immigration card as a way of dragging once-Liberal-but-now-One-Nation defectors back to his party and they've been doing so ever since. Some Liberal Branches are being infiltrated by various extremist groups and the last Federal Election result was entirely due to the activity of Clive Palmer. Playing politics to secure cross-bench votes is one thing but selling out beliefs for the sake of short-term convenience has left a poor legacy. Posted by rache, Sunday, 22 August 2021 12:08:17 AM
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By dropping any pretence of standing for small government, less spending and debt, the Liberal party has done away with the main difference between them and Labor.
The party's current leader has no guiding principles. His leadership is hollow and meaningless; he is not committed; he has merely placed himself ever so slightly to the right of Labor, believing that right of centre voters have nowhere else to go, and that at least he's not Albanese or whoever Labor chucks up next.
Morrison is so pragmatic that nobody knows what his values, if any, are. He has turned small government and human freedoms on their heads. He has alienated the Liberal support base, and probably his back benchers, if they were allowed to speak. He is even into the "net zero" malarkey. He has been described as a "quasi socialist" who often looks "lost and aimless".
If we want genuine choice in this country, the Liberal party cannot continue to be led by people like Morrison.