I haven't been out to nightclubs in Sydney for some time and this weekend, I must say that watching the rituals at licensed venues, the situation was surreal.

I've always been a non smoker and never really had a problem with others smoking.

As a reformed alcoholic friend of mine once said, if smoking is so bad in a bar, what makes you think that alcohol is so healthy? Isn't there some hypocracy in this? By trying to make drinking in a bar look more healthy and respectable, they ban smoking. Can you see that there is an inconsistency here?

In night clubs and bars in the thick of night, there are as many, if not more people outside the clubs as there are inside, so that they can smoke. Venues have those window-less fronts so that they are covered by the by-laws. Then there are strange contraptions like sliding doors that open and close, much like the door to the dairy room in big brother, to these porch like areas, enclosed as part of the bars and yet open to the streets. There are more heaters under awnings now.

For Police, traffic control is more difficult as there are so many crowds and tables over the pavements, people have to walk on the roads to get past. Now the divide between the patrons of the venue and public property gets more foggy. Who is responsible when something goes wrong, when the pavement is clearly part of the venue?

There is something sterile, something strange, something fake about night clubbing now. I wonder if pubs and clubs will suffer when people's social habits are undergoing a rapid change under so much political correctness?

Apparently in places like Kings Cross and Oxford Street, the rates of physical abuse on the pavements keep rising as well in the chaos of the crowds. How is entertainment and socializing in the city going to be sustainable under these conditions? Are we seeing the fall of part of city culture that we had to have?

I am not sure that the overall message is that drinking is ok but smoking is not. My understanding of the move is that there was more of a concern over health risks to those in the establishments that didnt smoke, particularly OHS issues for bar staff. I think its a fair call from that perspective. Allowing smoking in what are fairly crowded and poorly venitlated areas is asking long-term bar staff to take the risk of life-threatening illnesses (namely cancer) in order to work.

I take your point re the increase of people outside venues. I thought that venues were required to set up ventilated areas for smokers, rather than simply putting them out of the street. Certainly where I live (a country town), most pubs that I have seen since the change have built special areas to provide somewhere for their smoking patrons to go. In a number of cases this has encroached on the general floor space of the venue, and has required significant investment from the owners. If we can do this in the country, why not the city?

A good friend of mine, a life-long non-smoker, died of lung cancer. I would not wish her death on any other person. If banning smoking in such venues stops even one other non-smoker getting lung cancer then I welcome the ban.
Smoking also causes a range of other problems - peripheral vascular disease and macular degeneration are just two.
Smoking costs the community not just the individual. The cost to the workplace and the public health system is enormous. Some smokers still believe that they have the right to a cigarette on work time. They take more sick time than other workers.
I once observed one irresponsible person so hooked on cigarettes that she chose to buy a carton of those and put back groceries intended for her children. When they complained she verbally and physically abused them, saying she "needed" the cigarettes - and then I saw her light up in the car with her children present.
Yes of course alcohol causes problems, some of them just as severe but to knowingly and selfishly harm others merely because something is 'legal' is not on.

It blows my mind that the government have a conscience about drugs and their effect on society and the person. Quite justifiably they made it illegal to possess and use the vast majority of drugs (my internal jury is still out on pot) but when it somes to arguably the most destructive drugs around (alcohol and tobacco) they are happy stick bandaids over the issue...

I'm an ex-smoker, and the best thing that could've happened was to ban smoking from pubs and clubs. I chose to smoke, others didn't. Why should they potentially suffer from my choices?. Plus, cheap bastards, buy your own ;o).

That is an interesting comment StG. I find it astonishing the social pressure living in the inner city to drink and smoke pot. I don't like pot at all, it stinks, tried it once, not nice, never do it again. Likewise I don't like alcohol either. Usually after one drink a get dehydrated, get a headache and it's not pleasant.

Yet the pressure in social functions to drink or smoke joints is amazing. People who consider themselves as politically correct will pass around the bong, try and get me to puff, and when I pass it on I get questioned? like: "are you sure you don't want some"? "Why not"? "Its good for you", "It will calm your nerves" and so on. I end up repeating myself, no, no, no and no and finally I have to leave because I am embarassed about having to say no all the time.

Similarly, when people pour out the wine. "Are you sure you don't want some"?, "Why not?", "everyone in Europe has a glass of wine", and "Oh go on, don't be such a party pooper".

What I'm getting at is that these are the same people who have lobbied and legislated for banning of cigarettes in venues. They would like to smoke their joints outside, have a wine at the table, or 10. This is all so politically correct.

The difference is no one expects or pushes you to smoke a cigarette.

Is there anyone here who socializes outside of Church groups, who is not pressured frequently by people wanting them to drink, drink more, or smoke dope, or have more dope as it is socially acceptable? How many wonder why the same people are so militant against cigarettes?

Can people see where I'm coming from? I just thought I'd paint more of a picture here.

Cheers.

Saintfletcher, I dont socialise in church groups and have never been offered pot. I do drink, but generally not much, and have certainly turned down more than one drink.But then I dont live in the city, so maybe dont see that pressure. Have been to uni though, so chance that I should have been offered pot. But would have turned it down - just not interested. If you cant have a good time without it......