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The Forum > General Discussion > Is hunting good for NSW?

Is hunting good for NSW?

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Apparently the NSW Government thinks so as the NSW Dept of Primary Industry reports that hunters accounted for $1,406 million being spent in the State last year.
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/about.us/publications/psi/2020/hunting
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 22 July 2021 6:06:32 PM
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Is Mise,

I got a 404 error on your reference, but getting rid of vermin has to be good for the state, and hunting is a natural activity that still lingers in modern men and some women. It's enjoyable. You like it. I used to like it, and it puts money in government coffers.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 22 July 2021 11:04:40 PM
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It depends what you are hunting. If its more the American style of hunting where the prey is human, no its not good. If its to prey on children and the innocent with guns, like in the case of John Edwards, and Martin Bryant its also not good. If its to shoot the farmers cattle and sheep then again its not good.

Feral animal control requires a holistic approach, and professional shooters most likely should be a part of that control. As for the involvement of the destructive weekend Rambo's that's not such a good idea.

Since your link is an error, can't comment on that.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 23 July 2021 7:25:25 AM
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The url is...
http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/about-us/publications/pdi/2020/hunting-and-recreational-fishing-overview

I saw a paper t'other day which said that wild pigs, world-wide, account for CO2 output equal to approximately 1 million cars primarily due to their habit of turning over soil which releases its sequestered carbon. So I assume that all those CO2 fetishists would be happy to see wild pigs severely culled.
Posted by mhaze, Friday, 23 July 2021 8:05:02 AM
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Paul,

Go to the link maze gave then click the hunting icon and the report to which I alluded will come up, a fair comment would be appreciated.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 23 July 2021 9:21:08 AM
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According to the ABC "hunting has become a large
contributor to the NSW economy."

"Statistics from the NSW Department of Primary
Industries ( DPI) showed that in the 2019-20
financial year, hunting was worth more than $14 billion
to the state's economy."

Also professional shooters help farmers control pests
like rabbits, kangaroos, foxes and so on. According
to professional shooters hunting was growing and it
could be a major tourism industry for regional Australia
as it is in New Zealand.

Lets also not forget if done the right way - (by professional
shooters) hunting is good for the environment since it helps
to maintain the population of different animal species in
good balance. There is a danger that overpopulation of a
particular type of animal species can cause environmental
challenges such as scarcity of food.

The other thing is that hunting activities can help
promote conservation. The hunting industry generates revenue
through tax collections and this money could be used for
other activities like the maintenance of parks.

There's more at the following:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-01/hunting-economic-benefits/100248526
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 23 July 2021 11:25:29 AM
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Is Mise,

It depends who you are going after. Witches?

Even then some people would be concerned, including myself.
Posted by NathanJ, Friday, 23 July 2021 1:36:55 PM
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Foxy,
Do you really think that professional shooters bring in all that money?

Or were you merely expressing an opinion?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 23 July 2021 2:07:13 PM
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Is Mise,

Read the link I cited.

Statistics from the NSW Department of Primary
Industries (DPI) showed that in the 2019-20
financial year, hunting was worth more than $14 billion
to the state's economy.

And there's more given. It's not my opinion.
It's according to the given stats.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 23 July 2021 2:45:47 PM
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My son was a member of the navy shooting team, My shot gun has not fired a single shot without providing something for the table, even if only a hand of coconuts from 50Ft up, & my lady can take out a match box at 30 yards with an open site 22, 100% of the time.

From my experience of so called professionals during a cull, I'd prefer their space to their presence.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 23 July 2021 3:39:04 PM
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Foxy,
Dodging as usual, you said professional shooters should be used, I asked you if you thought that professional shooters brought in the money.

Hasbeen is right about the professionals, anyone remember the disastrous NSW aerial cull of brumbies that saw dozens of horses left to die a lingering death?
NP&W were responsible for that debacle.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 23 July 2021 5:04:57 PM
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Is Mise,

Go back and read what I actually did say.

Your accusations as usual are wrong.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 23 July 2021 7:16:02 PM
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Foxy,

You emphasised hunting should be done by professional shooters, you mentioned them twice, go read your own post.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 23 July 2021 7:25:24 PM
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Hi Issy,

The report does not contain any tangible references to the contribution made by fishing and hunting to the NSW economy, it states; "It is difficult to estimate the economic value of these sectors because game harvest and fishing catch are not sold and paid for in markets, unlike the catch or produce of other primary industries." One cannot dispute there is an economic benefit from these activities. Like all potentially dangerous activities the economic benefits have to be weighed against the social consequences. If the only consideration was economic then hard drug use would be legalized, there being no social consideration.

As for "hunting" it can be divided into two categories, one those professionals controlling feral pests, and two recreational amateur hunters. The professional use of firearms is easily controlled and has real economic benefits. I do not have a problem with professional management of feral pests by professional people. The problems are with the second group of weekend warriors out to get their jollies from shooting animals. This needs to be tightly controlled as the negative social consequences in my view override any perceived economic benefit.

p/s Have you joined 'Strike Force Venari' set up to combat illegal hunting? "In conjunction with the 'shut the gate on illegal hunting' program, the DPI GLU, continues to detect, deter and disrupt illegal hunting in NSW."
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 24 July 2021 6:40:03 AM
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Paul,

You didn’t enter the hunting segment where there is much more information.

The. Members of the SSAA support ‘Strike Force Veneto’ and.much of the information on which they act comes from SSAA members.
Locally we report all suspected.illegal hunting.

The shooting sports and hunting are very safe activities.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 24 July 2021 2:30:22 PM
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Issy,

If hunting is such a safe activity as you claim, along with the suggestion that these amateurs are law abiding, why is it necessary to form a task force to investigate illegal activity? I didn't find any references that your SSAA mob are involved in any "good deeds" I can only take your word for that.

I remind you how leading NSW gunnie Tony Azzi claimed wombats were feral pests after being caught shooting several. He called it responsible land management. How does the Azzi view hold up with the gun toting community? I'm sure he's not alone in his opinion.
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 24 July 2021 5:39:53 PM
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Paul,
The National Coronial Information System reports 3231 sport and recreation deaths for the period 2001 to 2017, an average of 190 per year, of those deaths 33 were due to target and precision sports, shooting sports accounted for 14 of these, an average of 1 per year.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 24 July 2021 8:23:57 PM
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Paul,
Sorry to be misleading that should be ‘16 ‘ above.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 25 July 2021 11:17:41 AM
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Hi Issy,

If we are going to measure the value of hunting in terms of lives lost then one is better than two, and zero would be better than one. I don't think it is as simplistic as that. There are many other consideration as well, environmental damage, denial of access to bushlands to other passive users, destruction of property, animal cruelty and the illegal destruction of native fauna and flora, and yes the lost of life as well.

I believe the annual duck shoot in Victoria, it is the antithesis of what could be described as anything good about hunting. If as claimed wood ducks are a problem for market gardeners, then professional control is in order, amateur hunters who wouldn't know a duck from a Jersey Cow are out of order. I link professional control to sustainability and the efficient management of resources.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 26 July 2021 6:25:53 AM
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Paul,
Professional shooters get paid, they don’t bring in money for the State or local businesses, hunters do.
One of the great downsides to hunting in State forests is.that hunters report.drug crops and that upsets the owners of said crops and they go off and winge to the Greens or other friendly political ears.
If you find the fact of one death per year attributable to sport involving firearms one too many what do you propose doing to the activities that cause 190 deaths per year average?
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 26 July 2021 11:48:26 AM
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Going to throw the sh!t at the Greens Issy. How many of your law abiding gunnies sell firearms to bikie gangs and other criminals enterprises and then report the weapon stolen. Many more than one per year Issy, why do we need a task force to hunt down illegal activity? Shooters and Hooters policy is the removal of all gun control, a friendly ear for the criminals no doubt!
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 26 July 2021 4:42:16 PM
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Paul,

The Shooters politicians have never advocated the removal of all gun control and you can’t shew where they have done so.
All that you can do is rant and make baseless allegations, don’t you know what a reference is?
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 26 July 2021 5:57:56 PM
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"report. drug crops and that upsets the owners of said crops and they go off and winge to the Greens or other friendly political ears."

Reference Issy, got one?

Show one case of gunnies reporting drug crops. No doubt the crops belong to the gunnies in the first place, not good business practice.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 26 July 2021 7:28:03 PM
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Paul,
No I haven’t as the procedure is to make an anonymous report but to keep a reference to the words used and their order and a key phrase or two and the date and time so that if the crop was being watched then one can prove that one reported it.
Sad to say but anonymous is the safe way as Govt. departments tend to leak.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 26 July 2021 8:03:19 PM
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Issy, nothing to say about law abiding gunnies selling firearms to criminals.

"The figures show in the last ten years the number of firearms stolen annually has increased from just over 1,700 a year in 2007-08 to nearly 3,300 in 2016 -17, with the total number stolen over the 10-year period reaching close to 27,000."

Where are all these "stolen" guns going Issy? Enough lethal weapons to equip an army.

http://www.guncontrolaustralia.org/gun_theft_skyrockets_over_ten_years
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 26 July 2021 10:36:29 PM
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Paul,
Good lad, you gave a reference but unfortunately it was to that secretive organisation ‘Gun Control Australia’, whose three members won’t tell anyone what their real membership is;unlike the SSAA which has an audited membership of over 200,000.

GCA tends to exaggerate a bit, much more reliable is the Australian Institute of Criminology whose report “Firearms Theft in Australia 2018” , Bracknell, S. is based on factual investigation not wishful thinking and finds that there has been a neglible rise in firearm theft when the population increase is taken into account.
There is absolutely no evidence that firearm owners are selling to criminals and disguising sales as thefts.
Better luck next time.

GCA is so secretive that if one is silly enough to join then it must be done blindly, there is no information given to prospective members; that’s why we think that there are really only three members and a computer and a printer.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 27 July 2021 10:18:11 AM
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Issy no need to brag about SSAA membership. The SA had more than a million members in Nazi Germany and that was back in the 1930's, how can you match that.

Those figures were obtained by freedom of information from government sources. How about giving numbers on "stolen" guns yourself. You know and I know that legal guns can earn the owner a very nice premium when sold on the black market. Many "stolen" guns are not reported for up to a month after the event, when all evidence of "break in" is well and truly gone. Where do you suppose many of those "stolen" guns end up Issy? In kiddies toy boxes!
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 27 July 2021 3:43:03 PM
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Paul,
Well, how many members does GCA have?
Are there more than the rumoured three?

Every gun theft in NSW is thoroughly investigated by the police; what evidence do you have that gun owners have colluded with criminals?
If you have any then it’s your bounded duty to help the police in their investigations.

8% of stolen guns are air guns, wonder which crims prefer those.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 27 July 2021 6:20:46 PM
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Come, come Issy,

What about the other 92%? Guns supposably are well secured in locked gun safes! That's a joke when thousands are stolen each year. As for dobbing in each others Marijuana crops, that par for the course among gunnies. When you take into account all the dosh given to gunnies by the taxpayer, and all the cost of enforcement and investigation of gun crime, your $1.4 is looking rather thin.

GCA members must keep their identities anonymous, there are people out there with GUNS who would shoot them if the knew who they were..

BTW Happy Armistice Day for yesterday.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 28 July 2021 6:30:44 AM
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Paul,
Don’t be an ass three known members of GCA have been around for years and no one has even given them the finger let alone anything else.
If you read the Government report it tells how the stolen guns were stored and goes on to complement licenced gun owners on their level of compliance with safe storage.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 28 July 2021 9:24:28 AM
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Bula Vinaka Issy,

With all those thousands of legal, come illegal, guns floating around somewhere in the community one can't be to careful, you never know whose behind the trigger. You avoided the question about the 92%, why is that, a bit of an embarrassment, ah!

As for; "it tells how the stolen guns were stored and goes on to complement licenced gun owners on their level of compliance with safe storage." SAFE STORAGE. Ah! pants on fire, you make with the funny! You've been smoking your crop me thinks. Imagine if it wasn't "safe" instead of 3,000 guns being stolen each year, it would be 30,000. Its a joke!

A Gunnie has shot a bloke dead in Ipswich, that's just west of me.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 28 July 2021 5:07:32 PM
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Paul,
The other 92% were mostly rifles and shotguns, as one would expect.
As the Govt. report shews most thefts were done by cutting open the safes or tearing them away from their anchorages and taking the lot, most thefts were in rural or semi-rural areas, thefts were down in urban areas.As you seem to know so much about the way in which criminals act I really think that you should assist the police.
As shooting sport activities account for only one death per year average what do you think should be done about the recreational activities that cause 190 deaths on average per year?
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 28 July 2021 7:19:43 PM
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There you go again Issy, throwing out another red herring, trying to deflect to some other issue concerning 190 non gun related deaths. How about giving your thoughts as to where all those stolen guns in Australia end up? Anyone can stage a break in and then report the crime a month later.

A Gunnie shot a bloke in Ipswich yesterday, are you going to tell me that was the first for the year.

"A man and woman have been charged after a stolen car and firearms were located at St Marys this morning 6th July." Unfortunately it happening too often Issy. Remember that famous Chicago Gunster Al Capone, like you, Al also liked guns!
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 28 July 2021 8:45:02 PM
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Paul,
No deflection, all the deaths were sport related, the red herring is you trying to link a deliberate crime related shooting to recreation.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 28 July 2021 11:41:54 PM
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Kudos Is Mise.
Posted by Canem Malum, Thursday, 29 July 2021 2:12:47 AM
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Ata maríe Issy,

There is a difference between a bloke falling off his skate board and meeting his end, than people like John Edwards and Ian Turnbull using gun laws to obtain legal guns and then killing innocence people. You failed to address why we need a task force if guns are not such a problem, you also fail to comment on why so many guns are "stolen" every year. You and I both know guns are a big problem in the community. I'm not saying every gunnie is doing the wrong thing, the majority are not, but the minority makes it a problem for all of us.

CM ignorance is bliss, stay ignorant.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 29 July 2021 6:16:47 AM
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Paul,
You put stolen in inverted commas so obviously you know that they are not stolen, so how are you helping the police?
There’s another couple of red herrings, those that you mention had nought to do with the sport statistics just as the run of the mill road accidents have nothing to do with motor sport.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 29 July 2021 10:43:06 AM
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Australia has produced its fair share od psychopathic gunnies like Milat, Bryant, those with licenses Edwards and Turnbull, between them these madmen murdered more than fifty people. In the south of England another licenced gunnie has gone on a rampage and used a shotgun to murder five people, including a three year old girl. Only a week ago the police there gave this maniac his licence and shotgun back. Disgraceful behaviour from police!

The question we should be asking ourselves is not; "Is hunting good for NSW?", but rather can we afford to tolerate such licenced maniacs in Australia? Given the high number of nut jobs with guns an licences should we introduce annual psychiatric assessments at the gunnies expense. Me thinks so!
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 14 August 2021 10:28:55 PM
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