Joe Biden has declared a new national holiday in America, Juneteenth becomes a federal holiday celebrating the end of slavery in the US. Biden in his speech emphasized the need for America to reckon with its history, even when that history is shameful.

“Great nations don’t ignore their most painful moments. Great nations don’t walk away. We come to terms with the mistakes we made. And remembering those moments, we begin to heal and grow stronger.” Biden said.

Will Australia become one of those great nations Biden speaks of? When will we truly recognise our shameful past, and come to terms with the wrongs we perpetrated against our indigenous brothers and sisters? When will we be able to afford ourselves a true and meaningful 'National Reconciliation Day' holiday, possibly as a replacement for the anachronistic 'Queen's Birthday' day off.

I will be happy to leave the blubbering and virtue-signaling to Paul. I don't know what makes people like him feel guilty about something they had no hand in. Actually, I doubt that they really feel anything about what went on between people who have been dead for centuries; they just think it makes them 'nice'.

I won't bother going into the fact that we never had slavery here, because they always manage to invent something else just as bad.

We already celebrate the end of slavery in Australia - 26 January.

Up to that time, slavery was rampant in the lands that became Australia, but on that day it was no longer government sanctioned.

It does however have to be acknowledged that it took a long time to convince the slave owners to give up their property and they were still selling their women for many decades to come.

Celebrate the end of slavery in the western World to a large & official extent, it's still rife in places in Africa & Asia !
Or, don't people read of the cases regarding poor domestic servants brought in from Indonesia & the Philippines ?

Slavery is still rife in the non-Western world, but you won't hear the white-hating racists and Green Marxist talking about that. No, it's all about something that didn't happen 200 years ago.

Dear Paul,

Thank You for this discussion.

Celebrating the end of slavery is the first
federal holiday since Martin Luther King Jr Day
was established in 1983. The effort to have
Juneteenth declared a federal holiday was
decades in the making. So there's hope for
Australia yet.

Let's trust that the history of slavery will
be taught truthfully in American schools.
Instead of sticking to the "patriotic" version.

As for slavery in Australia?

The following link explains:

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Australia

Here's the link again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Australia

Foxy,
Interesting link. I have seen a report from the 1860's where survivors of shipwrecks were kept as slaves by Aborigines. I have actually seen PNG Nationals being kept by Citizens of Australian islands in a manner that'd be described as slavery if it happened anywhere else.

Thanks individual,

I learn new things all the time while
surfing the web.

When will we truly recognise our shameful past,
Paul1405,
We have & still do every minute of the day despite the anachronistic nature of the claims.
Did you know that the non-indigenous are compensating the indigenous also every minute of the day for something they had no part in ?
Do you recognise that ? What more would make things equal in your opinion ? Seeing that you also have non-Aborigine heritage in your heritage, how do you reconcile with yourself ?
Would be interesting to know what you'd see as getting us closer to Day 1 of starting anew !

The heading betrays how dumb you are.
Have you not heard of a rent slave?

Dan

Indy, you miss the point, no one is asking for some kind of public flagellation concerning the past wrongs perpetrated against aboriginal people. What is required of a mature society is recognition of the past, not some sanitized history peppered with omissions and fallacies which has been the narrative for over two hundred years in Australia.

The American recognition of a past wrong, slavery within their society, does not instantly fix the years of social injustice suffered by African Americans as a result of that wrong. What it does do is create a focus from where action can be taken to move forward and correct social injustice. If you cant recognise the injustices of the past, then you cant start to correct them. Australia has an issue with its history concerning our first nations people, and once we come to terms with that history and then focus more on future improvement.

Paul1405,
What would be your first step to get to Day 1 of a new beginning ?
Mine would be equal rights AND responsibilities for those who want to live in today's times with today's commodities & health services.
Culture has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Govt. & should be only the business & responsibility of those who want to practice it.
Religion to be off the streets & constraint in the home, National Service or gap year for unemployed 18-20, penalties for Law breakers & compensation for their victims. With the fundings saved Govt should kick-start the local economies by long-term infrastructure such as irrigation & rail transport.
We now have one of the best economies due to much of the spending by Australians being done IN Australia. If that isn't a clear lesson in local economics then I don't know what is !
Next Federal election don't vote in an unrealistic Labor Govt to destroy what we have right now. Demand better & put more pressure on the Coalition by not supporting the sabotage by the leftist groups ! The present opposition is showing already that they don't have anything to offer apart from clogging our airwaves with whinging & whining & complaining but no constructive criticism whatsoever. They're bogged down by pseudo academic idealism & therefore have nothing of value to offer this Nation. I say let's focus on the next election as Day 1 for a new & better & more cohesive Australia !

So you ignore me you compliant fool!

That is, the fool that beavers away in ignorant capture and total compliance of the cultural assassins of the West.

I scoff at your stupidity.

Dan

Australia has an issue with its history concerning our first nations people, and once we come to terms with that history and then focus more on future improvement.
Paul1405,
Yes, the non-indigenous have the issue of not being told by the indigenous what & when is enough effort to once & for good put a stop to criticism. The indigenous have the issue of not knowing what they actually want cohesively.
They also have the added problem of pseudo-indigenous throwing a spanner in the works of real Aborigines !

"The heading betrays how dumb you are.
Have you not heard of a rent slave?"

DD, a little bit of thought and you would realise the topic is not about the pros and cons of an American holiday celebrating the end of slavery in that country. In fact, I consider state sanctioned unjustified forced labour of African Americans in the US ended in 1942, when the last man was released from penal servitude in the southern states. Economic slavery continues to this day. What is of interest to me are the words of Biden and how they apply in Australia in relation to our failure to recognise the true history of the past, and the ramifications of that.

<<“Great nations don’t ignore their most painful moments. Great nations don’t walk away. We come to terms with the mistakes we made. And remembering those moments, we begin to heal and grow stronger.”>>

If you couldn't pick up on that you show how dumb you are. I'll try and make it easier next time, just for you DD.

Economic slavery continues to this day.
Paul1405,
Only because people want more than they're capable of procuring without the help of others !

Australia DOES NOT have an issue with its history concerning our first nations people; only the cranks who hate our country have an issue.

June 19 is also the anniversary of the execution of the Rosenbergs.

Letting them steal secrets and pass them to Stalin was most certainly an error.

The executions were a far more practical way for the US to address the errors of the past.

Rather ironic that, next year in the USA, Father's Day falls on June 19.

Ironic given that the race with the highest levels of fatherless children is black. So they'll be having a holiday to celebrate something that is largely absent in the black community.

But of course the day is supposed to celebrate the end of slavery in the USA. What won't be pointed out is that the end of slavery was about Republicans taking slaves away from their Democrat slave-owners.

According to the Chicago Reporter - Most black kids are
not fatherless. That's a myth.

Fatherlessness is not defined by living arrangements.
The majority of black fathers actually live with their
children. Furthermore whether living in the same home
or not, black fathers are the most involved of all
primary recorded race and ethnic groups.

A great big raspberry to you mhaze.

mhaze

The irony of it all is magnificent.

A past leader of the Labor party no less, Julia Gillard, attempted to rob the workers of their cheap transport, with a scheme designed to force many of them to walk to work, as a reward for supporting a workers political party.

Breathtaking arrogance

Dan

Hi Foxy,

The old fart brigade like to have cheap shots regarding your posts, I think you are a bit too intelligent for them. mhaze makes a statement about black fathers in the US, you provide sourced contradiction of that claim, we shall see if mhaze can back up his claim? Looks like DD had to chime in with some nonsense deflectmion to get mhaze off the hook.

I think its time Nursey down at the retirement village up'd their medication to 6 yippy beans a day each.

Dear Paul,

As I told Is Mise, - laughter is and always will
be the best form of therapy. And this forum
certainly provides enough entertainment.

Paul1405,
Instead of wasting OLO space with silly little Nursery jokes, how about offering some ideas about getting this Nation to become more cohesive & responsible to itself ?
What would you suggest should be done about people who always expect others to put up an effort. You're one of them so, what is it & what should the rest of us do to make you pull some of your weight some of the time ?

Individual,

Paul has been trying to motivate people on this forum
for ages.
But you can only do so much to motivate some people as
you well know. How about your joining in? You seem to
have some strong views on the subject. Lead by example.

Foxy wrote:"According to the Chicago Reporter..."

And then proceeds to NOT provide the link. Whenever Foxy decides to NOT provide a link the skeptic hairs on my neck stand up. She's rather fond of hiding data that doesn't suit the 'cause'.

So no evidence that what she says has any validity other than that someone told her what she wanted to hear. Hilariously silly old Paul calls this a " sourced contradiction". Well if you want it to be true just believe it, eh?

This is how proper research is done Foxy.... http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by-race#detailed/1/any/false/1729,37,871,870,573,869,36,868,867,133/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431

Note: the data is based on "U.S. Census Bureau, Census 2000 Supplementary Survey, 2001 Supplementary Survey, 2002 through 2019 American Community Survey".

You could also download table A3 from here... http://www.census.gov/data/tables/2019/demo/families/cps-2019.html
although that is an excel table and is probably above your pay-grade.

Still its nice to see that you and Paul continuing to fall for half-truths and outright falsifications. I feel there'd be a disturbance in the Force if we ever found you or he actually dispassionately looking for the truth.

mhaze,

Thank You for being so entertaining but in all
fairness - I'll give you a bit of advice.
There's a search engine called Google - that
you can access to fact check someone's claims.
All you had to do is put in "Chicago Reporter -
black fathers," and you would have found the
link. I've been accused of using too many links
to back up my claims - so this time I naturally
assumed that you had the intelligence to search
the information for yourself.

Ah well, as you consistently keep telling me -
I'm always wrong. (lol) and it seems that I certainly
am regarding over-estimating you.

Here - is the link:

http://www.chicagoreporter.com/breaking-myths-about-black-fatherhood-this-fathers-day/

Paul has been trying to motivate people on this forum
for ages.
Foxy,
That remark borders on sick joke !

Actually Foxy, I had already found your article. But I wanted you to link it. The last time I went and found an article you claimed to prove your point, you denied I had the right article after I pointed out its errors. Once bitten....

I can't help but notice you decided to ignore the data I linked. Well it tells a truth you'd prefer wasn't true, so ignoring it is the standard Foxy process.

As to the article you link, it uses highly suspect data from a mere survey where absent fathers are asked to rate their own performance. Little wonder that they come out looking better than reality.

But even then the partisan article you use, hides the facts from that survey. Here's Huffpost using the same data....

"Fatherlessness is still a bigger problem statistically in the black community than it is among other racial groups. Some kids who don’t live with their dads really are fatherless. And when I examined Census reports about black children, I found that slightly more than half don’t have the same legal residence as their fathers."

I know that you don't want that to be true and will therefore pretend it isn't. You're not alone. Indeed this truth about the black family has been ignored for 4 decades which is why the situation for black kids has become so bad. These problems can't be fixed if the most basic data about it is ignored because it is unpleasant.

But then fixing the problem isn't the aim, is it? Proving how virtuous you are by saying you want to fix it is the aim, n'est pas?

Individual,

Not all of us share in your sense of humour.

mhaze,

Those who stir the crap pot
should have to lick the spoon.

When the blacks celebrate Juneteenth, I wonder how the decedents of these people feel? Joy that their ancestors were freed by the Republican led union army or disappointment that their ancestors were deprived of their slaves....

http://pjmedia.com/columns/kevindowneyjr/2021/06/19/slave-stories-history-forgot-black-people-owned-slaves-too-n1455761

I assume that if reparations are ever paid, the decedents of these slave owners will have their hand out like the rest.

I reminds me of those aboriginal who lament that their female ancestors were raped or mistreated by the whites, but are silent that their male ancestors were those very whites.

Dear Paul,

Talking about genetics?
There's an interesting
article that might be of interest:

http://www.psmag.com/news/how-slavery-changed-the-dna-of-african-americans

It tells us that:

"studies of genetic history are important because they
help explain why blacks and whites often have different
genetic risk factors for the same diseases. African-
Americans are disproportionately affected by many common
diseases, and while much of this is due to poverty
and limited access to good health care, genetics plays a
role as well."

The article points out that - "If African Americans are
to fully benefit from modern health care, where diagnoses
and treatments are increasingly tailored to a patient's
DNA - it is critical that we understand African Americans
genetic history, and how it contributes to their health
today."

In other words we're told that:

"We need to understand not just the cultural and economic
legacies of slavery and discrimination but the genetic legacy
as well."

I reminds me of those aboriginal who lament that their female ancestors were raped or mistreated by the whites, but are silent that their male ancestors were those very whites.
mhaze,
I asked Paul1405 a few posts back how he reconciles with this very point but no answer as yet.
Perhaps Foxy will find one of her links for him ?

individual,

We're told in the link I gave earlier that:

"African Americans with a higher fraction of
European ancestry, who often have lighter
skin, had better social opportunities and were
thus in a better position to migrate to northern
and western states. Even after the end of slavery,
discrimination that varied with shaded of skin
colour continued to influence the genetic history
of African Americans."

There are so many questions regarding our Indigenous
people, the reasons for the "Stolen Generations" and
so on.

Hi Foxy,

Thanks for the link, the McGill research makes for an interesting read. There could well be parallels for the health of Aboriginals here.

Interesting NZ movie 'Cousins' about the stolen generation in NZ. Te Aroha tells me there was forced removal of Maori children in her younger days. Some of it was justified, but much was the Pakeha authority acting without justification. Below is a 2 minute trailer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_f1GjcI8-Q&ab_channel=VendettaFilms

Individual wrote:"I asked Paul1405 a few posts back how he reconciles with this very point but no answer".

I've been asking that question off and on for years on these pages. Never answered. Never even addressed. It as though Paul, Foxy, SR etc develop a sudden case of convenient blindness and never see the question asked. The same thing happens when I raise the issue of rampant aboriginal domestic violence. Utter silence ensues.

The reasons are obvious. These people like to use aboriginal issues to advance a political agenda but don't in the end really care whether their virtue signalling helps actual disadvantaged aboriginals at all. They can't possibly talk about domestic violence in traditional aboriginal communities because that won't advance the cause. Equally acknowledging that the current aboriginals have ancestors who were 'oppressor' as well as 'oppressed' doesn't help the cause and is therefore ignored.

mhaze,

With all due respect.
We can't answer what we don't read.
And we don't read what you write - most of the
time. Sorry. You've set the bar too low

That's what I said, Foxy, "a sudden case of convenient blindness". Quite remarkable that you only fail to read the posts that have questions you can't and won't answer. What'a the chances?

mhaze,

I want to apologise to you.

That was not "cool." to say what I did.
I've had a bad day - so please excuse me.
Of course I read your posts. And if I
don't answer - it's probably for a variety
of reasons at that time.

Anyway - keep on telling me what I'm doing
wrong - and I shall try to do better.

Hi Foxy,

Never apologise, never explain.

As for any question posed by Indy, I am very circumspect, he's not always nice to me like he should be, calls me names sometimes. But lets answer his question (is there a prize attached) when I find it.

I've found it;

"What would you (Paul405) suggest should be done about people who always expect others to put up an effort. You're one of them so, what is it & what should the rest of us do to make you pull some of your weight some of the time ?

A SENIORS NATIONAL SERVICE! Get them non contributing old folks out of the bingo halls and 'god's waiting room' and into some productive physical work out there in the sunshine. Make them earn that Aged Welfare!

Do you have any other questions Indy, I'll be happy to answer them for you.

If you want to know how best to reconcile with our Indigenous brothers and sisters, honesty in truth telling would be a good start, read my opening post and what Joe Biden had to say. Many Australians still suffer from some kind of historical amnesia when it comes to honesty in telling the truth about our past treatment of Aboriginal people, and the failings that, that treatment caused, which endure to this very day. Health and educational issues, housing, employment, crime, all sorts of social disadvantage, lack of equality, etc etc, should we go on. Once recognising the history, then we can move on together, in equal partnership, throwing away the hand out to the poor Abo mentality, and creating a better future for ALL Australians.

Aboriginal people have tried to gain the recognition they crave with the 'Uluru Statement from the Heart'. Its up to our national leadership (Morrison and co) to take up the challenge and act on it.

Paul1405,
Why pick on the old ones ? Is it because you're incapable of pulling YOUR socks up ?
Tell from a parasite's view why you want those oldies who have already paid up front, to fork out more ?

Dear Paul,

Perhaps under Scott Morrison things may improve for
our Indigenous people. I know it's a controversial
issue - "The Uluru Statement From The Heart." Not
many people fully understand what's being asked.
And perhaps with the right leadership it may happen?
I think that most Australians once things were fully
explained would not hesitate in approving the request.
Whether it happen in our lifetimes - we shall have to
wait and see. fingers-crossed.

Truth-telling also has to be respectful. Both sides of
the story needs to be told and the causes involved and
taken in context. Only then will true reconciliation
happen.

But we're a big rich land - and we can do it. Fairness
has always been a part of who we are. We may shout and
yell at each other - but when trouble strikes we're
there helping each other out.

Hi Indy,

"Tell from a parasite's view why you want those oldies who have already paid up front, to fork out more ?"

Keep telling the BIG LIE often enough and some people will believe you that somehow you paid for your aged welfare in your rather limited working life. As I understand from previous posts you fled South Africa when the apartheid regime collapsed. Then you had a short stint in menial employment in the PS, where you failed to cut the mustard. While frolicking in the waters off the far north of Australia, and lazing under palm trees you were busy collecting the dole. All good things have to end, and in your case for the better, off the dole and onto aged welfare for the past 20 odd years. You have truly been successful.

Please explain I am 68 and no aged welfare for me, why do you get it and not me. I'd say I've paid a hell of a lot more tax than you ever have.

68 and no aged welfare for me, why do you get it and not me. I'd say I've paid a hell of a lot more tax than you ever have.
Paul1405,
You're a Public servant where Superannuation has replaced the Pension. Also, Govt sponsored Super is much more generous. So, in actual fact you've not paid anywhere near what blue collar pensioners contributed because unlike you, they couldn't deduct anything from Tax unlike your Gay Club membership fees.
The other point is that they never had the benefits of above average salaries for no effort. They had to work for much less than you ever had to.
Besides all the above I doubt very much you paid more tax than a blue collar worker. Getting paid more you should pay more Tax, that goes without saying but you'd have paid a much lower rate in comparison & with more benefits !
Also, what on Earth makes you think I collected the Dole ? I worked 52 years & never got the Dole ! For your information, I & my friends had to drive all the way from Nth Qld to NSW before we found a job after that useless Goaf & Co show put us out of work.
I shudder to think what could have been if the Greens had been there then !

CANADIAN GENOCIDE!

"a dark chapter in Canadian history, in which Indigenous children were removed from their families and sent to schools run by the government and church in order to strip them of their culture and force them to assimilate. The schools were rife with physical and sexual abuse, and thousands of children died, but the exact numbers and causes of death will likely never be fully known."

http://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/juliareinstein/canada-indigenous-graves-school

Now Canada is mature enough to fess up to past wrongs perpetrated against their Indigenous people. Where is Australia on Indigenous genocide?

Hi Paul,

Where is Australia on telling the truth of it's past
history? Sadly still waiting for the right leadership.
Hopefully it won't be much longer.

Hopefully it won't be much longer.
Foxy,
you must have heard of the term "give them enough rope & they'll hang themselves".

And, before the likes of Paul1405 jump up & down bleating racist terminology, this is an age-old English saying totally & utterly not race related ! It refers to people who are perpetually misrepresenting facts !

individual,

What about the saying:

The grass is greener when its watered.

The grass is greener when its watered.
Foxy,
never heard that before ! Don't know how to take that !

individual,

It simply means that if one takes the time and
trouble to take care of something - it will
work better. You should get the drift.

You should get the drift.
Foxy,
Thanks for that. I have tried to say that to Paul1405 for ages but unfortunately, he is so entrenched in his indoctrinated hatred of anything that could result in good for all.
His mentality has no time to let scabs heal fully, he gets more satisfaction from tearing at them & rubbing salt into them !
He's probably making sure he'll get a full Superannuation from his employment in the Guilt industry !

The Europeans ended slavery which the North Africans had started & still practice !

Indy,

Of course it can have such a meaning, but in your case, given your past forum history of posting racists remarks, I wouldn't be too sure.

I know a chap, ex-warder at Long Bay Jail Sydney, now in his 90's. He once said to me "I liked nothing better than to find an Aboriginal (not his word) hanging from his bed sheets in the morning." So the words can have a different meaning to different people.

Calling it "let scabs heal fully" can only work if you admit there was a cut in the first place. All nations do wrong, but its as Biden said;

“Great nations don’t ignore their most painful moments. Great nations don’t walk away. We come to terms with the mistakes we made. And remembering those moments, we begin to heal and grow stronger.” He is talking about both sides of the argument.

Australia is yet to reach that position of maturity. When we do, we can then come together as equals with mutual respect, moving forward as one people, setting standards and striving to meet worthwhile goals. Aboriginal people are calling for that, yet our political leadership is still in denial, unwilling to give the recognition that is due, way over due.

To give an analogy;

If in a fit of anger I throw a rock and hit my neighbour in the eye. The next day I approach the neighbour with a; "Gooday mate" and he replies with derision about his eye, I say; "No I didn't do that you're making it up!" or should I meet his complaint with silence and a "lets go fishing". Should I expect to be friends ever again? However should I admit my fault, apologise and ask for a reconciliation between us. As forgiveness is the hardest thing to do in life, it would be very mature of my neighbour to forgive me and move on, but its possible he would.

Paul1405,
There's no nation that has & does more for its indigenous people than Australia and, it's the majority of non-indigenous people who live in Australia who are doing this. The ones who don't are the ones you seem to be looking up to. Good Luck !
In hindsight just about everything people did was wrong even the Australian Aborigines. They too fought each other & when it became their turn to lose they not as yet have come to grips with it. Yes, they were conquered, suffered & then have been compensated & are still compensated & it can morally be said over-compensated.
If you think you can change the past keep writing the things you write, I'll stay focussed on offering views for making a better future no matter how much sabotage you throw my way !

"let scabs heal fully" can only work if you admit there was a cut in the first place.
Paul1405,
How could we fail to admit that if indeed anyone doesn't I'd like to see it. What can be argued is that the Guilt Industry is ferociously working on making the wounds bigger than they were when first inflicted ! In my opinion that is what most decent folk are tired of.
How many of those stolen children would be around to complain now had tyhey not been taken into care. Yes, many were abused by those sickos in the Clergy but also back in their camps by their own.
I & my workmate saw with our own eyes when a 'respected' Elder had a little girl on his lap with his hand up her skirt ! We saw that with our own eyes ! So, don't give us that crap of everything done wrong was by non-indigenous ! Defenceless shipwrecked people were at times looked after by indigenous tribes yet some were simply killed.
If you can't accept that non-Whites aren't deplorable also then you really have a problem, a self-made one !

It seems Australia is not the only post colonial country which has difficulty coming to term with its treatment of its indigenous people, Canada is having a similar problem. The recent Canada Day celebrations were somewhat muted or even cancelled when it was revealed that unmarked graves of Native American children had been discovered.

Many Native Americans say they're feeling grief following revelations from investigations into unmarked grave sites at former residential schools, which uncovered preliminary evidence of the remains of an estimated 215 children in B.C., and 751 people in Saskatchewan.

Hopefully out of this will come a maturity for Canadians that the past wrongs can be recognised and the country can unit and move one as one people.

Happy NAIDOC WEEK.