Our PM Scott Morrison told a Christian
Conference that he was called to do God's work as
Prime Minister.

Should religion and state be kept separate?

Why and Why not?

There should always be a separation between church and state. However, certain cretins from the left are trying to imply that this should exclude anyone that is religious.

An individual's religion is a cornerstone of their value system, and unless the values of that particular religion conflicts with their job it should not be an obstacle.

In Australia, religion IS separated from the state; there is no should or shouldn't about it. We have no official church like the Mother Country. We generally keep our beliefs to ourselves; and just because some sneaky busybody blabbed about something Morrison said at a RELIGIOUS event that he wouldn't say to the general public, we don't need to bother with this old chestnut again.

Morrison is entitled to his religion and, until he stands up in Parliament claiming to be doing "God's work", there is no problem. Perhaps in future he won't take the discretion of his co-religionists for granted.

Morrison does try to wear his religion on his sleeve, as a political point scorer, like he does with wife Jen. Well if you put them out there don't get all sooky when people take pot shots. Not sure if some would be so inclined if Morrison was down at the Mosque taking about his holy work for Allah, I know I wouldn't be to warm and fuzzy about it.

People ought to serve God and do His work alone, whatever be their social roles.

But this is a tautology, a joke in a way, because how could anyone do anything BUT God's work anyway?
Nevertheless, it is the attitude which counts and failing to be aware of this, foolishly believing instead that one is doing one's own work, is what leads us astray and into trouble time and again.

Be careful however: [working with the intention of] serving a Church or some other organised "religion" can be quite different from [working with the intention of] serving God.

"The concept of a “separation of church and state” reinforces the legal right of a free people to freely live their faith, even in public; without fear of government coercion. Free exercise means you may have a faith and you may live it."

Get back to me when you find evidence of Morrison or any other member of any Australian government interfering with the free exercise of anyone's religion.

the legal right of a free people to freely live their faith, even in public;
mhaze,
I don't agree with the last three words !

Christianity taken to the extreme;

The Body of Christ - Belief in God's will.

Luenced by " Born in Zion,'' by Carol Balizet , this group denounces the '' seven systems '' of mainstream society which include education, government, banking and religion. But also, medicine, science and entertainment. In 2002, the pastor of The Body of Christ sect -Robidoux and his wife Karen E. Robidoux, were charged with murder along with her husband for starving their child. They said that they were waiting for God's sign to feed the baby. This pseudo-Christian cult believes in the power of faith healing.

Speaking of separation of church and state, Craig Kelly's Facebook page has been wiped. It was, apparently, the most popular of all political Facebook pages. Now eliminated because the fascists of the left didn't like what he was saying.

Book burners of the digital age. By a foreign company no less. But I suspect many will be just fine with that.

It didn't take long for you-know-who to twist Foxy's straight forward question into a rant against Christianity itself by coming up with an "extreme" example of behaviour that has nothing to do with Christianity. People claiming to be Christian are not necessarily entitled to do so. Nor are people who use any subject as a means of venting their dislike and fear of genuinely held faith - without addressing the instigator's reason for posting it - entitled to be taken seriously.

Good Morning Everyone,

I believe that people are entitled to their faith.
As long as that faith does not hurt anyone else.
And I'm talking about religious extremism and
fundamentalism.

The separation of church and state?

That's a complex issue. Our religious institutions
are already supported in part by the state. They don't
pay taxes. And we use the Bible in many of our
legal procedures. Then there's the question of
providing the same protections for faith as
exists for gender, sexual orientation, and other
categories.

Regarding Scott Morrison and his recent appearance at
the Christian Conference?

From a purely political point of view - there is
nothing to be gained from criticising a politician's
faith. In the case of Scott Morrison he was merely
expressing his guiding philosophy and personal
beliefs. He was not trying to ban abortion or wind
back on same sex marriage or anything
else.

If we indulge in religious bigotry - this creates more
room for bigotry and intolerance to thrive.

I agree with Shadow minister - as long as a politician's
faith does not interfere with their doing their job - it
should not be an obstacle to governance and integrity.

I agree Foxy, providing its not just conservative Judeo-Christian beliefs, that are acceptable, as in the case of Morrison. It should be a broad church that accepts beliefs from all quarters including Non-Christians. Far too often politicians have invoked the name of the Christian God to justify aggressive acts of war, for example a favourite of American Presidents when going to kill millions.

Of course ttbn with his double standards will not have a bar of Christian extremism, he counts it out immediately, but is happy to jump on the band wagon and condemn 2 billion Muslims for the actions of a small minority of extremists within their religion.

Hi Paul,

We've got many different beliefs among our politicians,
from Muslim, Christian, Jewish, and others, including
non-believers. And I'm sure that they all do the best
they can for their constituents. They would not get elected
if they didn't.

Foxy you say "Our religious institutions
are already supported in part by the state. They don't
pay taxes."

What this situation, of religions not paying taxes, really means is that religions are not supporting the state in this case.

When party is freely supplying a good/service/money to another then it is the one that is doing the supporting and the party receiving the aid is the one that is supported.

So repeating what I said above: in this case the religions are NOT giving money to the state (ie, not paying tax) so they are NOT supporting the state. Not paying taxes doesn't justify you to say that the state is supporting religions.

However, the state does assist religions in other ways, such as by granting/giving them money that contributes to the running their schools. These schools not only teach the students the required state determined curriculum but also include the promotion of their religion. So in cases like this the government is providing aid that assists the religion's cause. To me, I'm not decided on whether this is a good or bad thing- because I find myself asking "the parents of students that go to private religious schools are usually wealthy than most and so have paid more tax than most. So why shouldn't they demand some of it back for their child's education when others who've paid little or no tax get their children educated by the government for free at state schools?"

Just to clear up something in the above post: When I say "When party is freely supplying a good/service/money" what I really mean is when a party is supplying a good/service/money without requiring anything in return.

So this includes if you're coerced to supply something. When coerced, the good/service/money was not freely given by you, but it is given without you requiring anything in return. So you are supporting the receiver- all be it most likely unwillingly.

Just to be clear.

The Commonwealth government provides funding to
religious schools and funds school chaplains for public
and private schools. All Australian Parliaments are
opened with a Christian prayer and the preamble to the
Australian Constitution refers to the "Blessing of
Almighty God."

I've read an interesting article by Max Wallace
on the web. He's pointed out the various
connections we have in this country between
the role religion plays in politics. It's worth
a read because it broadens this discussion and
adds to our knowledge of the roles that religion
plays in our society from symbolic, to financial,
and constitutional. His claim is that religion
retains a hold on Australian politics.

Here's the link:

http://www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/religion-retains-hold-0n-australian-politics-in-soft-theocracy-14902

Sorry for the typo. Here's the link again:

http://www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/religion-retains-hold-on-australian-politics-in-soft-theocracy-14902

Third try:

http://www.independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/religion-retains-hold-on-australian-politics-in-soft-theocracy,14902

Foxy,

Note that rabbis and Imams are also provided where different faiths dictate.

Shadow Minister,

Thanks for that.

This is a real learning experience for me.

And quite frankly - I don't see anything wrong
with it.

Dear Foxy,

«it broadens this discussion and adds to our knowledge of the roles that religion plays in our society from symbolic, to financial, and constitutional»

There was this mouse who lived in a hole in the warehouse-fence.
Every now and then, a truck would park next to the hole to offload goods.
The mouse concluded that the purpose of that truck was to warm up its home in the winter by blowing hot air from its exhaust pipe.

Religion is for reaching God. Surely it could have some effect on society too, but to view it as a socio-economic tool is to have the vision of that mouse!

I also see that Albo is out spruiking his Christian credentials. He should be cancelled immediately!

"Our religious institutions
are already supported in part by the state. They don't
pay taxes. "

Unions don't pay taxes. Are they supported by the state? I call for a separation of union and state.

Charities don't pay taxes. Are they supported by the state? I call for a separation of charity and state.

Greenpeace doesn't pay taxes......

The Australia Institute doesn't pay taxes.....

The ABC doesn't pay taxes.Are they supported by the state? I most definitely call for a separation of the ABC and state.

Churches don't pay taxes because they don't make profits. Nothing to do with state support. That's just a whine that those who hate the church use to try to drag it down

Whatever beliefs a person has - as long as they do
no harm - I think that most Australians will accept
them. That's why so many people want to come and live
in this country.

Scott Morrison is a member of 'Horizon Church' a Pentecostal sect located in Sutherland Sydney, Morrisons local area. Other that receiving a government gift;

"Prime Minister Scott Morrison‘s Government has been hard at work giving taxpayer-funded handouts to the people who need it most. It’s just that, apparently, their definition of “the people who need it most” is the members of Scott Morrison’s own already pretty well-off Pentecostal church.”

In mid-November 2019, the church was awarded $110,000 worth of public money through a Department of Home Affairs initiative known as the Safer Communities Fund for so called 'security'. Having Morrison as a church member may have not influenced the giving of public money, but I'm sure it didn't hurt.

There is no interference of religion in politics in Australia. What we do need to be concerned about is the new, proposed assault on the education system by the ultra-Left that will actually be anti- Christian; not anti-religion, just anti-Christian. Christianity is one of the "bad" things hated by the Marxist maniacs about Australia and Western civilisation.

If Morrison is genuine about his Christian beliefs he should be making a lot of noise and blocking the latest Leftist attack on our children's education. So far, he has not said a word about it.

In this country we have the power of the vote.
If we don't like what our governments are doing
(or not doing) we as voters have the power to vote
them out. And we can do that at both the federal
and state levels.

"There is no interference of religion in politics in Australia" Tony Abbott liked to hang out with Archy Pell for a little fireside chat.

Hi Paul,

Scott Morrison believes that he's been called by
God to lead Australia.

But is there a direct connection between Morrison's
religious beliefs and his political perspective?

The PM has stated that - "The Bible is not a policy
handbook," and that "Faith in Jesus Christ is not a
political agenda."

"In this country we have the power of the vote.
If we don't like what our governments are doing
(or not doing) we as voters have the power to vote
them out. And we can do that at both the federal
and state levels."

Foxy, we can replace one party with another as many times as we like - but we cannot replace the bureaucrats, the people pulling the strings.

Any Liberal leader worth his salt will seek the guidance of the Great God Rupert before making any decision. That heathen Turnballs failed to pray at the Holy Shrine of Rupert and look what happened to him.

Hi Foxy,

My 'Old Man' used to say, "Son, any bloke (politician) who believes God is on his side, is a dangerous fella, because he also believes he can do no wrong." A bit of a truism.

I think that it is somewhat inevitable for religion to
play a role in politics and government. However as
long as we ensure by LAW that all religions have an
equal voice in the state and equal access to the law
that is what matters. Religious organisations in this
country have played a significant role in public life.
The Protestant and Catholic churches have played an
integral role in the development of education, health, and
welfare services.

People who get themselves elected are no more qualified for the job than are the rest of us; they rely on advisers and public "servants" with degrees in politics and with natural slyness and totalitarian tendencies to advise them. Voting is a farce, really: compulsory in Australia, but voluntary in most countries. Democracy here is also a farce, given that there is barely a cigarette paper between the only two groups able to form a government. And, it should be obvious to even the thickest among us that, although we have a right of centre government at the moment, the PM is busy putting Leftist policies in place, and he has clearly handed over the running of the most concerning event for generations to the health department. Doing well with the Left's climate and expensive energy policy, too. No advice from economists and business. No second opinion from anyone. And look where our economy is, relying on lies from the Treasurer.

We laugh at despots who have arranged for their shitehole countries to be named the Democratic Republic of Congo, and the like. We know that people have no say in the People’s Republic of China. Well, it's time to look at ourselves and what we are allowing to happen in Australia.

As for the few pathetic 'independents', eight of these nutbags have written to the PM demanding that he repatriate thousands of people from India and quarantine them at our expense. Blocking people people who returned to their country of origin voluntarily who are now packing the poops and wanting to come "home" is one of the most sensible things that has happened. Independents equal power without responsibility.

Australia has been through a great deal. We've seen
how Australians unhesitatingly turned to government
embraced expertise and willingly abided by the
society-wide deprivations in the interests of their
communities. Reluctantly at first people fell into
line. Even those who had built their careers on the
virtues of small government and fiscal disciplines
flipped to become big spenders.

Political combat took a back seat to problem-solving.
Voters backed incumbent governments marking them
favourably for doing their jobs. We've seen returned the
incumbents in the Northern Territory, ACT, Queensland,
and WA.

In WA Mark McGowan was strongly endorsed.

While our closest allies - the US and UK descended into
division (and death) Australia closed its borders early.

Of course there were mistakes. We do have business and
Coalition hardliners being outspoken against State border
closures, lockdowns and other restrictions on economic
grounds. However, while we still have the given
uncertainties - high public trust is important and we
need to remember that Scott Morrison's National Cabinet
has served the country well.

The only way democracy can be maintained is with a good opposition. Australia does not have such a thing, federally, in WA, in Victoria, in NSW, Tasmania and the NT. The SA opposition is starting to shape up pretty well against the gormless Steve Marshmallow.

My guess is that voters worry more about a government's
policies than a PM's religion. Also lets not forget
that for all those who are put off by a PM's religion
there may be an equal number who are attracted by it.
Lets not forget that western Sydney apparently disconnected
from Labor at the last election and supported the Coalition.
The feeling was that this was due to western Sydney being
strongly religious and Scott Morrison appealed greatly.

However the current Opposition will need to come up with
strong policies because in the end it is
policies that matter and that's how the electorate
will judge who to vote for. At
present Labor is not looking good.

Dear Foxy,

In my opinion the question really should read "Should politics get involved in religion?"

My answer would be no unless that faith is taking money from the government to provide services then most definitely yes.

About a third of the schools in this nation are now private with the vast majority of them being religious in nature. The schisms this is starting to inflict on our society are pretty clear cut.

We have about 50% of our hospitals are now private, again with a large percentage having religious ties.

When religious bodies have a large say over the distribution of public monies the chances of them favouring some groups over others is very real. This is where I want strong government oversight. Who wouldn't.

Dear mhaze,

You write:

"Get back to me when you find evidence of Morrison or any other member of any Australian government interfering with the free exercise of anyone's religion."

That really is an inane narrowing of the issue. I can do the same. Why of earth are we spending from memory $700 million a year to place chaplains in each of our schools including public ones especially given the findings of institutional child sexual abuse from that very cohort?

Dear Steele,

Religion does play a role in politics in this country.
Politicians have always picked and chosen values for their
own political ends. The use of the conscience vote
demonstrates the high place given to religious
convictions and sensibilities.

Did yoiu know that when federal parliament is in
session the Parliamentary Christian Fellowship meets
fortnightly with about 60 members from all sides of
politics in attendance. This is more than a quarter
of total parliamentary members.

The government has outsourced approximately two
thirds of community services to faith-based agencies
at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars.

These services focus on youth, aged care, family
support, homeless programs, and mental health.

I could be wrong but I think that chaplains in
public schools - are on a voluntary basis. They are
not mandatory.

There have always been and probably will continue to
be politicians who will influence the nation in
interesting ways. And religion does seem to be
flourishing in both the Coalition and Labor parties.

hi foxy lady, ive been off this site for a couple of years. at nan and pops for dinner 2nite using nans lap top, cool i could log in again. just wanted to ask you a question since your comments are good reading i picked this thread of yours to ask a question.

DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD?

i shocked nan last week told them i dont believe in god, pop was cool with that said its a matter of faith, nan said you a cathlic girl in year 10 at catholic girls school and you say you dont believe in god what are they teaching you. nan is hockey pokey sometimes. pops cool with a lot of my ideas so i talk with him a lot, nans good to but is set in her ways love them both. i did get an A for religion last term.

Dear Wahine,

Welcome to the forum.

Yes I believe in God.

I've been through a lot health-wise and have been
through several major operations. During those stressful
times it helped me to pray. It helped me
cope and kept me calm. I'm not out to convert anybody.
I think what anyone belives is their business - faith I
think is an internal thing. It's personal. For me -
without the existence of God in my life - would be
difficult.

cont'd ...

Dear Wahine,

I hope that you'll find your own path through life.
I wish you All The Best.

I'd like to Thank everyone who took the time to
join in this discussion. For me it's now run its
course.

I look forward to our next discussion.

Yes it should, particularly if it keeps Republicans from swearing false oaths so that they can get their Parliamentary pay.

There are some politicians in the western world who receive no pay because they won't perjure themselves for the sake of money.

The Oath and Affirmation of office has been changed
over the years according to preference. For example,
in 2007 - PM Kevin Rudd reinstated -
"The Commonwealth of Australia, her land, and her people."
He dropped allegiance to the sovereign. As did Julia
Gillard.

Also Julia Gillard became the first PM to make an
Affirmation of Office rather than swearing on the Bible
when she was sworn in on 24 June 2010.

I know this is off topic but I just want to wish
all the mum's out there a HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY!
Enjoy your day!

"For me it's now run its
course."

You always say this Foxy, then you wait poised, hoping that someone like Us Mise allows you to kick off again.

Why does it matter to you what and how I post?
Each of us has their own style. You included.
Don't look for faults in others. Look to your own
self and what you consistently do on this forum.
Anyway, have a nice day!

Hi Foxy, this one for ttbn;

Why do you (ttbn) look at the speck that is in your brothers (sisters) eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

Matthew 7:3