Today marks the 30th anniversary since the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody delivered its findings and recommendations. Little has changed in that long period of time, Despite Aboriginal Australians only amounting to 3% of the population they account for 30% of the nations prisoners. Despite the good intentions of governments, both state and federal of all persuasions, more than 100 recommendations of the 1991 royal commission are as yet to be implemented. About 60% of the 339 recommendations have been fully implemented.

It is estimated than at least 450 Indigenous people have died in custody in the past 30 years, probably a lot more. "This is a national disgrace," Labor senator Pat Dodson said. Senator Dodson was one of the inquiry's five commissioners back in 1991. "If the political leadership at the top doesn't get itself into gear very shortly, we're going to have a real crisis on our hands, similar to what we had back at the time of the royal commission. Thirty years on, we've got nearly 500 people who have died and we're starting to get the same feeling that there's neglect, that people don't care, [that] there's irresponsibility. We're not in a national crisis in the sense of people dying because of the actions of a prison guard or a police officer. Where we do have the crisis is the underlying issues that impact the rates of incarceration." Dodson said.

What are the causes of these deaths ?
What brings these indigenous to the attention of the Police ?
I have seen many,many indigenous walk or drive down the street & not once were any of them pulled over for doing nothing unusual. Same goes for all people.
So, is the Police guilty of taking notice of apparent criminal behaviour ?
I have seen non-indigenous crapheads behaving like crapheads & they got the attention of the Police. I find absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I heard recently that more non-indigenous kill themselves in custody. I have also heard that there are more non-indigenous inmates than indigenous.
So, if there are say 4 out of 10 non-indigenous committing crime & 5 out of 10 indigenous committing crime than isn't it not just logical but also natural that the latter have a higher incarceration rate ?
Wherein lies the problem then ?

Dear Paul,

The 30th Anniversary of the 1991 Royal Commission into
Aboriginal deaths in custody contained numerous
recommendations for reform. Unfortunately they
haven't been fully implemented. Human Rights Watch said
that there is still a pressing need for adequate and
culturally appropriate mental health support for
prisoners. They stated that the government should act
to prevent prison deaths by improving services and support.

For example one of the things mentioned was that the
government should make it a priority to end solitary
confinement for people with disabilities and raise the age of
criminal responsibility from 10 to at least 14.

Human Rights Watch also stated that Aboriginal people should
be imprisoned only as a last resort.

It is a serious crisis - but one that should no longer be
ignored or brushed aside. People are dying.

Yawn. Staying out of jail in the first place is the only recommendation that needs to be taken up or acted on.

Hi Foxy,

The short sighted answer is something like; "Staying out of jail in the first place is the only recommendation that needs to be taken up or acted on." What those who say that don't realise is the problem will not go away whilst ever there is massive disadvantage in the Aboriginal community. Too many are born into an environment where through no fault of their own the natural progression leads to "breaking the white mans law" and then the only outcome which society accepts is imprisonment.

The starting point should be a hard look at the 'juvenile justice' system where indigenous children are way over represented. In 2019 indigenous kids made up only 6% of those aged 10-17 but 54% of the juvenile detention population. They are imprisoned at a rate 22 times greater than non-indigenous kids, in a place like the NT its far higher. This contact with juvenile justice invariable leads to later incarceration as an adult criminal. Very young offenders 10-12 years of age are almost certain (94%) of returning to jail by the age of 18.

Should we continue to bury our heads in the sand and ignore the problem? Maybe the hard line approach of "lock em' up, and throw away the the key" is what's needed. Well, that approach has been tried, and it resulted in more lock ups, and more keys!

Paul, its been a while but im interested in this topic.
Are you aware of how a death in custody is determined?

For the record, according to police associate of mine it refers to a person who is intercepted by police and dies within a 48hr period.

This can be anything from a street search, pulled up for riding a bicycle without a helmet, apprehended for shop lifting or other minor crime, or even a car chase that was called off, and of cause a death while in a cell/watch house.

People really have to stop dramatizing this issue for political gain or even grandstanding as it is widely misrepresented.

born into an environment where through no fault of their own the natural progression leads to "breaking the white mans law" and then the only outcome which society accepts is imprisonment.
Paul1405,
That is excuse rhetoric not fact !

The facts are that over 400 deaths and not one person
convicted. It is easy to see a parallel with the outcry
following the death of George Floyd in the US yet
there are many here who still today describe Australia
as the "lucky country," and deny what could be causing
problems due to a lack of understanding.

A lack of education and a failure to connect the "dots"
shows we need more information, interpretation, and the
revelation of the truths.

Dr Sandy O'Sullivan, a Wiradjuri person and an Associate
Professor in the School of Creative Industries at the
University of the Sunshine Coast gives strong emphasis
on the role that institutions like the Australian
Museum can play in educating the public. She says that
museums can reveal and speak for those who've been
kept voiceless by educating the public. After all our
governments and our systems of inequality are supported or
challenged by us as "individual players.

The royal Commission found that indigenous people in prison were less likely to die in custody than non indigenous. That remains the case today.

It is criminal behavior by the individual that leads to black, or any other death in custody. No crime, no custody, no deaths.

The responsibility falls in two areas. First the aboriginal who commits crime, & secondly the magistrates who are far too soft on juvenile criminal behavior. We through our magistrates are training juveniles to behave badly, by showing them that they will get only a minor slap on the wrist for breaking the law.

Too much softly softly lack of punishment for minor law breaking leads to increasingly serious law breaking. Prison as a last resort for aboriginals is exactly the thing that is teaching the kids that they can do what ever they like & get away with it. This is also the case to an only lightly lessor extent with other kids.

The answer is to come down like a tom of bricks on the first sine of illegal, rather than just naughty behavior. Hell we have even made it illegal for parents to use a bit of tough love, & a strap to discipline their own kids.

Proper appropriate punishment, applied early is the answer to black deaths in custody, & the increasing number of very young joy riding in cars, & other such behavior.

The bleeding heart softly softly approach is a proven failure & needs to be stamped out for the good of the kids as much as society.

Incidentally I saw some figures showing that white deaths in custody as a percentage of inmastes exceeds black deaths.

ttn: Yawn. Staying out of jail in the first place is the only recommendation that needs to be taken up or acted on.

JB: Yawn. Staying out of jail in the first place is the only recommendation that needs to be taken up or acted on.

All that needs to be said.

Thanks Foxy,

"A lack of education and a failure to connect the "dots" shows we need more information, interpretation, and the revelation of the truths."

I agree with what you say. My wife spent a lot of time dealing with the problems of Maori youth back in New Zealand. The same social and economic conditions exist with those guys, as it does in Australia for many Aboriginal people, with the same outcomes. One look at the 'Closing the Gap' figures, and the lack of success, shows that a major problem does exist. Until disadvantage is overcome things wont change. Having government impose a solution, no matter how well intentioned will also fail. Those advocating more of the same big stick approach are deluding themselves, it wont fix the problem. The problems and therefore the solution is better delt with by Aboriginal people themselves with the support of government and the broader community.

The Aborigines copped a very rough deal in those early days of outsiders. There are stories of pre Cook days of conflict with Maccassans in the North of the great South Land.
Over the past 150 years however, particularly the Europeans have bent ar$e over backwards to make things better for the Aborigines.
The proof is there for all to see that those who had it in them to strive for betterment did in fact succeed.
We must not overlook the fact that when it comes to procuring better conditions, many indigenous have taken the opportunity.
Many of those who still ride the poor me band wagon are gradually changing also. The handful of the blame brigade are no longer indigenous & are sabotaging any good will for no reason other than taking delight in disunity.

Hi Paul,

The recommendations of the Royal Commission are just
as important today as they were 30 years ago and as
you point out they should be implemented alongsdie
a partnership with Aboriginal communities and their
leadership. They need to work together under the
principle of self-determination to reduce the over
representation of Aborigines in the justice system.
We can do better. We need to do better.

Inadequate medical care, lack of attention and self-harm
are listed as causes for the deaths in custody. As are
racist attitudes and assumptions that drive this
neglect and inaction. Reports tell us that police
officers ignore cries for help from sick Aboriginal
prisoners. That, plus taking too long to attend to their
medical needs.

There's more at the following link:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-56728328

The safest place for young aboriginals that flout the law is in prison as aboriginal deaths caused by other aboriginals is higher % than the ratio in prison and is not a statistic; compared to all aboriginal deaths in custody being 434 since 1991, and that includes all cases of death. To claim the 434 deaths was due to Police brutality or prison neglect only feeds into the Marxist BLM racist agenda of the George Floyd riots.

It is reasonable to predict in a population of 43,000 people in prison there will be deaths from illness and preventable causes including accident, injury and suicide. Once you allow for the specific demographic of people who are more likely to be prone to substance abuse and given to violence all congregated together and the punitive nature of their environment, one can even predict a much higher likelihood of illness, injury and death.

The Australian Institute of Criminology monitors deaths in custody through the National Deaths in Custody Program (NDICP) which was established after the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody. The Royal Commission's findings released in 1991 included that:

the high number of Aboriginal deaths in custody was due to the overrepresentation of Aboriginal people in custody
Indigenous Australians were no more likely to die in custody than non-Indigenous Australians.

In the years 2012-2013 there were 53 deaths in prison custody. Only 9 of those were among Indigenous prisoners. Indigenous prisoners are under-represented, with 27% of prisoners being Indigenous and just 17% of deaths in custody being Indigenous.
GET THE FACTS! DO NOT FALL FOR THE BLM RETORIC. The next call will be defund the police.

Back in the day, I was a relieving police sergeant in some of NSW's far western towns with a high proportion of indigenous people living in or nearby. The first thing I'd ask my subordinates when I first arrived for duty is who we had in custody. I'd then walk out to the cellular area and check-up on our 'guests'. The sergeant I/C always had the responsibility for the health and safety of those in custody, at the top of his list, without a doubt!

Invariable it was some luckless Aboriginal person, maybe two usually locked up for public drunkenness and, or fighting, which was generally about it; hardly a crime wave. So I would casually enquire of them, why you're being held? And they'd often say, "... eh Boss, it's 'cause I'm an Abo or Black, and ye mates won't give me no bail...".

Sadly it was the truth - Whereas a male or female caucasian would be bailed under normal circumstances, provided the offence they're were being held was not one that was indicatable, there was an unofficial presumption of no flight risk, and he'd answer his bail under his own recognizance, or a nominal figure. But not so an indigenous person, who'd need the combined assets of Westpac & the Commonwealth Bank to make bail, otherwise they'd simply get out, and do it all again, or alternatively, go 'walkabout'.

Of course, I've been long retired, and before that, I was a detective, so we're talking nearly fifty years or more ago now. But whenever I read of an indigenous person being hurt or, in some way, suffer while in police custody, I do wonder if anything's changed for the better; I most certainly hope so, as it sure needed radical charge?

I just listened to Phillip Adams & Pat Dodson on the Radio. Pat Dodson was remarking on the lack of leadership from the PM, the tactics of the Police & related Departments.
Not once did he question the lack of his & other Indigenous leaders' leadership.
Not once did he mention recommendations he made to indigenous parents to discipline their children. In all, he did not once say what indigenous groups need to do to reduce anti-social behaviour in their communities.
I'm afraid that my view is that we all need to band together to find solutions to anti-social behaviour by black, white & brindle youths. One side perpetually bleating faults of the other is a pointless exercise.
Firstly, we can't get around the fact that we cannot continue without a National Service. I found the indigenous far more in favour of a NS but this is vehemently opposed by the Leftist snow flakes of all races represented in Australia. The Army reserves have a much greater interest rate among the indigenous in comparison to all others.
Maybe, just maybe people like Pat Dodson should push for a NS & put the Labor/Green voting lilly Whites to shame & melt their lack of responsibility & show them up for what they really are..

Indy,

It must be your innate racism that leads you to make the statement;
"Over the past 150 years (since 1881) however, particularly the Europeans have bent ar$e over backwards to make things better for the Aborigines." would you care to elaborate on how in 1881, or 1930, maybe more recently 1960, only 60 years ago, even today, how Australia was/is bending over its arse to make things better for the Aborigines?

Western society has had several thousands of years of discipline of property and personal ownership as taught in culture. Aboriginal culture has had very little understanding of the culture of boundary, to them there is no boundary and no ownership so it is obvious they are going to conflict with the Christian West that bases law on the principles of the 10 commandments, i.e. "Thous shall not steal" Thou shall not covet": to them if it is available it is theirs to use.

They do not see the discipline to save for the future, you only use what you need and is available today. It might belong to someone else but I can use it. They by nature are tribal wanderers and gatherers. Only those that have been Westernized and live out of the tribe make it in a modern world, but we have the cross race hangers on wanting to go back to tribal culture and with property boundaries - your on stolen land. Westminster laws do not apply to us, and the Police are the administrators of Westminster laws.

how Australia was/is bending over its arse to make things better for the Aborigines?
Paul1405,
Show us when & where it wasn't so ! If the offers weren't taken up or the advice not heeded then who's fault is that ?
I have lived most of my life in indigenous communities & worked with people who have spent even more time & more communities. Besides having personal experience plus having having been told of others;' experiences, let me assure you that the situation is very much not as YOU imagine !

your on stolen land.
Josephus,
Can't argue with that ! What I can argue about is, all the on-going compensation that has gone their way thus far is not enough ?
It's amazing how these cultural values do not cover the good will that has been extended, often at great all-round cost as whatever is given has not yet been enough.
What would be enough ? All non-indigenous leave & leave the indigenous to the mercy of others who would definitely not put in place any of the compensation & welfare that is in place now.
I have met may indigenous who said that the estranged urban pretend-indigenous are not at all concerned about their cousins in the Bush, the Aborigines !

Indy,

You claim to have "lived" in indigenous communities, saying I imagine, well I do have a little experience with Aboriginal people in a professional capacity, in a large urban environment, but that's neither here nor there. Like you, I and everyone else cannot fully understand the complexities of the problems faced by our indigenous brothers and sisters, as they like us are not a homogeneous group suffering the same set of homogeneous problems. Aboriginal people and their problems are as diverse as the rest of the community. In general terms "disadvantaged" is what is often referred to as the problem, well it is, but it takes different forms for different people, and needs different solutions.

I'm still laughing at your "150 year" quip, which showed your ignorance, but I suspect it was motivated by your racial bias and prejudice, something you clearly show with your comments. BTW in what general area did YOU get all that indigenous expertise? Living up a tree in North Queensland.

Paul1405,
While you're laughing why not cough up some evidence that Australia as a nation hasn't bent ar$e over backwards to help the indigenous ! I suppose because you're one of the pretend-indigenous crowd in suburbia, you're not exposed what's really happening in far northern communities.
You really should check if the indigenous person you're talking to is in fact indigenous !
I know people who were anything but indigenous 30 years ago but now are anything but non-indigenous !

Indy,

A small example of the systemic racism that existed in Australia, well into the 20th century. Not 150 years ago, but in YOUR lifetime. An ex-prison officer, a man now in his nineties, once said to me he liked nothing better than to find an aboriginal (not his word) hanging in the cell first thing in the morning.

'In February 1965 Charles Perkins led a group of university students on a bus trip around rural NSW to challenge racism wherever they saw it. They visited a number of towns, including Walgett, where Aboriginal ex-servicemen were denied membership to the local RSL, and Moree, where Aboriginal people were banned from swimming in the local pool. Their protests gained national media attention and Perkins was thrust into the spotlight, becoming a towering figure for the Indigenous community."

Where you came from I suspect black people were treated rather badly.

Paul1405,
I see you're definitely not interested in bettering relations with Caucasians. How do you feel about non-Caucasians living in this country & occupying stolen but since paid for many times over, land ?
How do you feel about the opportunistics (fence-sitters) claiming indigenous status, the pretend ones, not the real ones ! the ones that syphon funding before it gets to the needy !
So, how do you propose we head into the future as a Nation ? Keep on tearing at scabs from long ago, or put a stop to grievances caused by people no longer with us to people no longer with us !
Would you prefer to revert to no welfare, no schooling, no health services etc ?
I say tell your leaders to start doing what they constantly expect ours to do ! I know many indigenous who do not share the the mentality of the blame-game. They're doing fine !

The activists working in the aboriginal community are inspired by American Marxist "BLM" and Islam tribalism that want nothing more than to eradicate the disciplines of Christian society from their scene. The values of the Judeo-Christian world [10 Commandments] view are in conflict with their tribal culture, "might is right: compared to love your Neighbour as yourself". To dominate with the law of the jungle is their aspiration.

Australians have acted to accommodate aboriginals into Western society, Many have made it and are successful. However with the current influences of Marxism and Islam; "race" is being used to divide this nation, from its culture and Christian heritage, when race is not the domain of a religion / culture. Though many only see the ridiculous behaviors of the past of people who called themselves religious. They think by their feelings and not by the rational mind of a culture.

Understanding anarchists: http://www.facebook.com/officialbenshapiro/videos/208019577752123

The only explanation for the disproportionate number of indigenous people in prison is that indigenous people are committing a disproportionately high number of crimes.

Confusing social issues with justice issues only undermines confidence in the justice system and allows social dysfunction to get worse.

ttbn, they are being influenced not to accept Western Justice and law.

Australians have acted to accommodate aboriginals into Western society,
Josephus,
Just as in many places around the World, indigenous have come to accept that the West offered more good than bad & adapted the culture of commodities.
Of course, deep down all of us, not just the indigenous, have this unrealistic view of living in paradise where everything is just so nice. Sadly, this paradise is not real & never was. The reality is that existence is marred by hardship & decease which the West's cultures have managed to fight fairly successfully but the greed mongers of all races are hell-bent of spoiling that achievement by non-sensical & unachievable idealist arguments.
The first move for all humans is to accept & recognise their forebears' faults instead of trying to exploit the past for insipid insidious idealism.
What are some of the main arguments by pseudo "indigenous" ? "We're not getting enough health services, we're not receiving enough education, we're not getting enough housing etc etc. None of these are traditional indigenous ! They're all western !
The West has a hell of a lot to be regretful about however, the West has also done more to better the lives of many than any other society. Take the other two great powers Russia & China. What is their track record in bettering the lives of their indigenous ?

Josephus: Australians have acted to accommodate aboriginals into Western society, Many have made it and are successful.

True. & now some of those, influenced by Socialism/Marxism, are inciting discontent, committing crimes, ending up in jail. I believe "some" are committing suicide to push the "Aboriginal Deaths in Custody" theme.

"some" are committing suicide to push the "Aboriginal Deaths in Custody" theme.
Jayb,
Uncanny you should state that because I've had the very same feeling for quite some time.
I think some of the vulnerable are being brainwashed into suicide via drug abuse.
I recall asking a young offender who got remanded into custody why he commits offences & he replied with glee "I get sent to Lotus Glen" (Jail).
Other indigenous youths have told very similar. So, do people still think the Prime Minister should do "something" about this or should the Indigenous leaders pull up their socks ?
Another who specialised into breaking into the Pilots' accommodation whilst they were out flying used the incarceration to gain access to body building equipment, internet etc to improve & hone his shady skills. People in the community used to remark "It'll only be a few days before there're new break-ins". They were always proven right !

All this hooha about descendants of indigenous people seems to fly in the face of reassurances from the Left that we are all equal - that race doesn't matter. So intent on stirring the race possum all the time, they seem to have confused themselves, and succeeded only in proving again and again that their great 'concern' is just a cover for fomenting bad feelings between people as part of their political activism.

ttbn,
Until the indigenous wake up & realise that the Left are just using them as Pawns to make up numbers to advance their insidious agenda, nothing much will change. The indigenous need to wake up that they're the ones who need to change to meet the challenges they have put off for too long !

Indy, you've gone from the ridiculous, with your stupid claim that all's been a bed of roses for Aboriginal people for the past 150 years, to insanely supporting a crack pot notion that; "some" (aboriginal people) are committing suicide to push the "Aboriginal Deaths in Custody" theme. While ever we have bigoted racists crackpots peddling such nonsense we wont move on.

We should listen to the words of Stan Grant on on this topic, under the heading 'Aboriginal deaths in custody reflect the poor health of Australia's democracy', Stan had this to say;
"Achieving reconciliation was one of the recommendations of the commission, (1991 RC) but how can we speak of coming together, healing or unity when Aboriginal people remain locked up in such shocking numbers? Despite the recommendations of the royal commission, we are going backwards. The number of Indigenous people imprisoned has increased 100 per cent in the past three decades."

Here is the full article, well worth a read (by thinking people);

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-18/aboriginal-deaths-custody-reflect-health-democracy-australia/100074262

Paul you live in isolation of the real problem, as drugs and alcohol given to aboriginal people and they remaining in an in an environment of hopelessness and anger against society and the police has caused the increase in incarceration. I see images on camera of brainless youth roaming the streets all hours of the night robbing from cars and destroying property. They are associating with the wrong crowd, instead of getting an education, getting a job and getting married, and working for a home and family. They are being fed the propaganda that the land and everything on it belongs to them. They have no understanding of boundary or personal ownership gained through labour

claim that all's been a bed of roses for Aboriginal people for the past 150 years
Paul1405,
You're simply just another racist idiot with no interest in making things better for all. So, why not just stop sabotaging good will & butt-out from a discussion you have no interest nor experience in !

The need for personal responsibility applies to everyone, irrespective of race or colour. The only difference between indigenous bludgers who have not learned this and white bludgers is that the former have excuses made for them by political activists and race baiters.

Indy, are you claiming to be an expert on matters of race, and others should butt out. You made a ridiculous statement about 150 years of interaction between white and black and I pulled you up on it; ""Over the past 150 years (since 1881) however, particularly the Europeans have bent ar$e over backwards to make things better for the Aborigines." The facts fail to support that notion, in fact just the opposite. Like others here you point to the products of disadvantage, rather than look at the root causes, whilst attempting to revise history to support your racially motivated argument.
You may be a casual observer of race matters in your neck of the woods, but as I tried to point out to you earlier the problems besetting our indigenous brothers and sisters are different everywhere, urban communities have certain social and economic problems to overcome, as do those living in remote communities having a different set of problems. A multilateral approached by all parties, aboriginal, government and the broader community needs to be undertaken if disadvantage is going to be eliminated. Revising history, pointing fingers, or playing a blame game will get us nowhere, and 30 years from now we'll be having the same argument.

30 years from now we'll be having the same argument.
Paul1405,
Of course, because of people with your mentality of blame instead of effort !

Aboriginal academic, Dr, Anthony Dillon, says that only aboriginal descendants can assure their future, and suggests that honest reporting on black deaths in custody, as opposed to the rubbish from blacktivists, the media and lying lefties, would be a good start.

ttbn,
Yes, Leftists who down play good will & exaggerate the misdeeds of some acting not in line with the benevolent !

All we need is a bunch of crusty old bigoted conservative white guys, sitting around a table determining Aboriginal policy. With their revisionist history, nothing to see here attitudes, ideas of extermination, lock em' up and throw away the key mantra, shoe string budgets, blame the black fella for his plight, etc and PROBLEM SOLVED! Well fellas, we tried YOUR way for a couple of hundred years and it didn't solve the problems! Maybe someone has a better idea. Yeah! get rid of the clueless bigoted old farts for starters who think they should be the masters of Aboriginal policy.

we tried YOUR way for a couple of hundred years and it didn't solve the problems!
Paul1405,
Give it time, you're a slow learner ! Just think of those countries where the invaders didn't give a damn about the original inhabitants !
Like in NZ for example !

individual,

We conservatives shouldn't waste our time giving these lefties oxygen by arguing with them. It only encourages them to think that they have something worthwhile to say, when all the do is regurgitate crap from the ABC and the leftist press. Call them out and move on is the best way.

I say - Let us discuss together a policy to better indigenous behaviour and future.

1. Train indigenous police to administer the law among their communities rather than elders.
2. Employ aboriginal teachers in aboriginal communities.
3. Teach aboriginal language beside English.
4. Remove all Marxist activists from aboriginal communities

Remove all Marxist activists from aboriginal communities
Josephus,
Labor would never agree to remove their propaganda soldiers !

Proud Boy Jose,

You say; "Remove all Marxist activists from aboriginal communities", would you prefer bigoted redneck whites from Alabama to run Aboriginal affairs? Maybe the Australian chapter of the 'Proud Boys' you were so fond of during the days of Trumpism.

bigoted redneck whites from Alabama to run Aboriginal affairs?
Paul1405,
The Aborigines would benefit from redneck whites a lot more than they have under your ilk !
The rednecks would show them how to manage their own affairs instead of being indoctrinated to depend on the hand-out tactics of your lot's insidious tactics !
One thing is certain, under the so-called rednecks, deaths in custody would become history !
Just look at those real Aborigines who run cattle stations.

Paul, it is the Marxist who are teaching them to expect the government to keep them at the same level as the rest of the population who work for their standard of living.

Proud Boy Jose'

You prattle on about "Marxists" leading the Aboriginal cause, but it appears to be nothing more than a figment of your imagination. Looking at the leadership, I fail to see any who I would consider "Marxist", maybe you can enlighten me and name, names, considering you see "Marxist" at every turn it shouldn't be too hard. I'll have at guess and say you can't name one.

Put simply people like you and others here are happy to see Aboriginal people subjugated, as it gives you a sense of white superiority, which has existed for hundreds of years. I want to see indigenous people, about 5% of the worlds population, take their rightful place in a modern 21st century world. They can do it, and there are lots of examples of that happening, but we cannot ignore the plight of so many, who through no fault of their own need assistance to achieve a decent future.

.... happy to see Aboriginal people subjugated.....
take their rightful place in a modern 21st century world.
Paul1405,
It's you who gets mileage out of the subjugation & it's you who puts up the hurdles that stop them from being in that rightful place ! Yes, YOU & other racist hypocrites ! It'll be interesting to see when the people finally wake up to you & your hypocritical & manipulating mates !

Hi Paul,

The following link explains quite well why
an Indigenous Voice needs to be enshrined in
our Constitution:

http://www.theconversation.com/an-indigenous-voice-must-be-enshrined-in-our-constitution-heres-why-153635

"Derek Chauvin guilty in death of George Floyd" For once Black Lives DO Matter.

Hi Paul,

Yes, I just heard it on the news.

Perhaps this will send out a message that as you say -
black lives do matter.

He was always going to be found guilty by gutless Americans, probably Democrats, who are frightened by a few black people who might have started rioting, looting and burning again. The fools should realise that the same black people will always be rioting, looting and burning about something. The knee-on-neck incident was just an excuse to riot, loot and burn; nothing to do with the deceased.

I hope that George Floyd's family will finally have
some closure. Perhaps this will sway people
into having some belief in the American justice
system once again. One can only hope. This does not
happen very often for black people in America.
It's a good sign. Even President Biden spoke so
eloquently about this matter on the news this morning.
Congratulating the police officers who testified for
their bravery.

Only someone really reeking of malice and bile would find
something wrong with the verdict.

There were 141,116 deaths in Australia in 2020 for which only a handful of people were convicted.

Idiotic statistics like these prove nothing.

A report on Aboriginal deaths in custody recently indicated that the vast majority were from natural causes such as heart attacks, cancer etc and the likelihood of dying in custody for Aboriginal inmates was no different to that for non-Aboriginal inmates.

Similarly, for the crimes that are committed Aboriginal suspects are jailed at roughly the same ratio as non-aboriginal. That there are proportionally 10x as many aboriginal inmates as non-aboriginal inmates is largely due to a higher rate of offending.

Paul's conjecture that the higher rate of offending is due to the poor conditions has some merit but does not account for the vast difference.

Will the Floyd verdict bring about a less violence orientated mentality ?
Chauvin ended up killing Floyd because Floyd committed an offence & strongly resisted arrest.
Chauvin definitely applied excessive force after Floyd stopped resisting !
Chauvin couldn't have done to Floyd what he did if Floyd behaved himself in the first place !
Let's hope both sides come to their senses !

They said that rioting by BLM and other Commos would break out again if the cop wasn't found guilty. There was no suggestion, and still no suggestion, that the other side - white "supremists" and any other non-left, law abiding Caucasians would put on act if he was found guilty. Just shows they do know that there is a huge difference between racial groups, the left, and conservatives, when it comes to respect for law and order, and general behaviour.

Dear Paul,

Getting a guilty verdict for a police officer is
very rare in the United States and until recently
it hardly ever happened. But it looks like things
are changing slowly but surely.

In the George Floyd case a United States jury has
found former police officer Derek Chauvin guilty
of the murder of George Floyd. Police officers
also testified and the jury was made up of six
white people and six black or multi-racial
people. We still don't know what the sentence will
be - but perhaps justice will be at least seen to
be done for all concerned.

It is a sad state of affairs when things get so out
of hand as it appears to have done in this case.
But there is hope that no one should be above the
law - no matter who they are.

rioting by BLM and other Commos would break out again if the cop wasn't found guilty.
ttbn,
There was never a more guaranteed prediction in the history of Mankind !
Since the this verdict however, it should be legislated as a criminal offence for anyone deliberately creating a resisting arrest scenario with intent to cause a society-dividing situation as was the case with Floyd & Chauvin.

So I hear Black Leaders say that Derek Chauvin now in prison, that Black inmates will take his life. This is American justice, so the justice system means zero as the races threaten each other.

The head of the Minneapolis police union says George Floyd’s “violent criminal history” needs to be remembered and that the protests over his death are the work of BLM a “terrorist movement.”

“What is not being told is the violent criminal history of George Floyd. The media will not air this,” police union president Bob Kroll told his members in a letter posted Monday on Twitter.

Floyd had landed five years behind bars in 2009 for an assault and robbery two years earlier, and before that, had been convicted of charges ranging from theft with a firearm to drugs, the Daily Mail reported.

When he was arrested he was purchasing with counterfeit $20 bills, when the shop staff called police.

In the ideal POLICE STATE of Proud Boy Jose'. If you have been convicted of a crime years beforehand and you're black, years later a white black hating cop in uniform, following a call from the public about an alleged crime which may or may not have taken place, can justifiably come along and murder the said black man in the name of crime prevention and justice for white folk. Who said BLACK PEOPLE should fear the good white officers of law enforcement?

Prod Boy Jose' maybe you should be leading the charge to right this terrible wrong. There are a few rednecks on the forum who you should take along with you.

Paul1405,
We've given you quite a few inches by now but you have no qualms taking mile after mile !
How many BLM qualifying incidents have you orchestrated in your time ?

Hi Paul,

The following link is worth a read. It explains
the problems that America has faced and is still facing
over its long history of police brutality.

We lived in Los Angeles for close to ten years. We
worked and travelled all over the country and saw many
things first-hand that were disturbing. A relative of
ours joined the Los Angeles Police Department ( LAPD),
and the changes that came over him were hard to watch.
His hair turned white, he ended up working with young
kids - and received a medal of valour for saving a
man's life out of a building fire. However, it ended
sadly for this police officer. He died of a heart condition
leaving a devastated family. It was a tough path he had
chosen.

cont'd ...

Dear Paul,

Here's the link:

http://www.theconversation.com/relief-at-derek-chauvin-conviction-a-sign-of-long-history-of-police-brutality-159212

The Trial of George Floyd never medically established that pressure on the neck actually caused his death, and could not because he was on drugs fentanyl. Fentanyl is a Synthetic opioids now the most common drugs involved in drug overdose deaths in the United States. In 2017, 59.8 percent of opioid-related deaths involved fentanyl compared to 14.3 percent in 2010.

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/fentanyl

There is a case for a miss trial because this was not established and the defense lawyer kept telling the Jury the case of Derek Chauvin was all lies. which is not a factual statement but an opinion. An opinion by which the jury was influenced.

Hi Foxy,
Thanks for the article from the Conversation. it sums up the situation in America rather well.

Greetings Proud Boy Jose', How's thing with the good ole' boys down Alabama way? Washed your flour sack and white sheet lately?

Surprisingly in the George Pell case you never wanted to refer to Pell's previous history concerning little boys, innuendo and accusations have been rife over many years. Rightly those unproven allegations had no bearing on the charge he was originally found guilty of, and his subsequent acquittal. However you are happy to throw up irrelevant material, not about the accused, Derek Chauvin but the victim George Floyd. Why is that? Could it be you are racists against black people! Certainly seems that way. Love to hear your explanation.

Paul1405, we know you base your views on Left wing media reports. Independent lawyers looking at the evidence and the transcript of the case do not believe the verdict. This Jury verdict was merely to appease the public expectation.

.... case for a miss trial ....
Josephus,
They really would be well advised to keep her away ! ;-)

Proud Boy Jose'

One of the justifications you gave for Chauvin killing Floyd, was Floyd was convicted of a crime in 2009, he had committed in 2007. From which Independent lawyer did you get that opinion from, the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan?

BTW, what is your justification for Chauvin holding his knee on Floyd's throat for nine minutes, was he on his morning coffee break? More likely Chauvin's intention was to kill Floyd, as the guilty verdict showed.

Why don't people see it for what it is ?
A bent Cop & a bent citizen & both got their justice !

No Indy,

George Floyd, regardless of his criminal history did not receive "justice" by being executed by a vigilante rough copper Derek Chauvin. Regardless of what you think of me, I firmly believe in the rule of law. Chauvin through due process received justice, something he didn't afford Floyd through his murderous action. The outcome of a guilty verdict is rare in the US in these types of racially motivated cases. In the past it has been common practice, despite substantial evidence to the contrary, for the perpetrator to walk free, or not even to be charged at all. There are millions of rednecked racists in the US who think like you and others on this forum. Maybe where you originally hail from a white dominated police state was acceptable, but with the downfall of the apartheid regime you were forced to flee to Australia. Unfortunately you may have found some of Australia's values alien to you, eg this support for a POLICE STATE was not there.

Paul1405,
Looks to me like your one & all goal in your life is to incite disunity ! Why don't you use all your energy to improve the healing of scabs instead of tearing at them ?

Not currently living in the USA - it makes if difficult
for many of us to fully understand the situation that
currently exists over there. But when even their President
is pleased as to the outcome of the verdict in this
case - it should give us a glimmer that perhaps the country
does have a racial problem - and that police brutality does
exist for black people over there.

Logically, we've had many examples of police brutality -
it's recorded history. Read the link I gave earlier of the
many cases. In this case - if a man is yelling "I can't breathe"
And he's not fighting you, and you've only arrested him for
the suspicion of passing a counterfeit bank not - then
keeping your knee on his throat for almost ten minutes does
amount to police brutality. In any other country - it would
have been a slam-dunk for murder.

In any case - a jury found Chauvin guilty - and other
police officers also testified. It now appears that there
will also be an investigation into the police force there
with hopefully recommendations being made for reform.
A big broom needs to be used to clean up that force.
And possibly this is just the beginning.

There is evidence in America that Islam is behind the critical race theory now taught in schools and the claims of white supremacy as it is here in Australia promoted by Islamists. The Marxists and Islam both have an agenda to destroy western society and have no plans to improve relations based in race as it gives them a platform to cause conflict.

Note Paul has not made any suggestions to improve the reconciliation of aboriginals with Australian society only to expect hand outs and financial repatriation.

Hi Josephus,

I think that many people are beginning to understand
the importance of inclusion regarding self-determination
for our Indigenous people. A voice in Parliament would
be a step in the right direction as well as recognising
them in our Constitution. (the fact that Australia
was not terra naulius but did have occupants). If our
Indigenous people could have a say in matters that concern
them - this would be a good start.

If other countries can do it - why not us?

Orchestrated incidents involving Police by a handful of racial activists are becoming more frequent lately with the desired outcome of disunity & Racism by the actual racists.
What other incidents could otherwise be exploited as grounds for rioting & looting ?

Foxy, You must be aware we have several aboriginals in Parliament, and some good outsiders like Jacinta Price and Warren Mundine who can represent aboriginal issues to Government.

Hi Josephus,

No they can't represent Indigenous voices in
Parliament. They have to represent ALL the people
in their electorates. What was being asked by
the Uluru Statement from the Heart - was to have
an Indigenous voice in Parliament to advise on
matters only concerning matters that affects
the Indigenous. Which is fair enough.

So now we intend to divide people by race, that sounds like an agenda promoted by Islam to divide Australia on skin colour. With the intent To establish a separate set of laws based on culture and tribal law.

Which is fair enough.
Foxy,
It would be if it was genuine, alas !

Indy,

What you refer to as "picking at scabs" is nothing of the sort, we still have open wounds in our relationship with Aboriginal people. The way a member of the privileged ruling elate in the form of Malcolm Turnbull callously rejected indigenous recognition offered in good faith by the 'Uluru Statement from the Heart' with a Referendum Council recommendation for a indigenous voice to parliament shows we are not willing and ready yet to come together as a people. Four years on from the rejection Aboriginal people are still waiting for some small crumb to fall their way.

Hi Josephus,

Our Constitution already divides us on race.
Our Indigenous People can and are discriminated against.
All they are asking is to have a say in matters that
will affect them.

... still waiting for some small crumb to fall their way
Paul1405,
Pity, the billions of crumbs & good will to-date had every single crumb of effort screened & rejected.

Foxy,

Your argument that aboriginal MPs are incapable of representing both aboriginal people and their electorate is illogical demeaning and racist.

Similarly is the proposal of a 3rd parliamentary chamber, to advise on aboriginal matters. Since all matters affect aboriginal people in one way or another this is ludicrous.

Who would elect the representatives? would this chamber have any real powers etc? if this 3rd chamber is only advisory, it would have no veto powers, no voting rights on legislation, and would simply be a toothless collection of rent-seekers.

Finally, would this then lead to a 4th chamber for Muslims or any other minorities?

Finally, would this then lead to a 4th chamber for Muslims or any other minorities?
shadowminister,
Yes, it's part of the plan ! Just like non-assimilating immigration ! Both are nothing more than Labor vote catchers.

ttbn goes out of his way to once again prove he has a commanding grasp of the complex issues surrounding this topic.

Yawn indeed ttbn. "Staying out of jail in the first place is the only recommendation that needs to be taken up or acted on."

If only life was as uncomplicated and fitted the narrative of every other right wing nutter how happy we all would be.

If only life was as uncomplicated and fitted the narrative ....
Aries54,
When the worry of working & paying for your family 24/7 is lifted from you then yes, it is fairly uncomplicated.

In the other thread re a Royal Commission into these deaths I replied if the outcome of such an investigation would actually be accepted if the actual facts were found ?
I hope I'm wrong but I'm starting to get the feeling that such deaths could be linked to a similar phenomenon as the Islamic Martyr phenomenon ?

Either I'm right with my last assumption or Indigenous deaths in custody aren't sexy enough for the do-gooders !

For sometime the far right have tried to link BLM with Islamic extremism. Some go as far as claiming Aboriginal deaths in custody is a kind of Aboriginal Jihad, where devotees purposely get themselves incarcerated only to commit suicide in a perverse act of martyrdom. Of course there is absolutely no evidence to support this claim made by far right white extremists, but they continue to make such claims from time to time, one s appears here; "that such deaths could be linked to a similar phenomenon as the Islamic Martyr phenomenon". Gee, some people are extreme in their beliefs.

Hi Paul

Great article, however, what about - cause, effect and responsibility by parents - no child asked to be born.

A parents's responsibility is to ensure such child is loved, nurtured and able to grow from a happy, healthy home and to aspire/achieve their dreams.

Their dreams and opportunities as a member of world wide society are ENDLESS.

What's holding them back - well that's the problem.

Why are children "roaming the streets" in the early hours of the morning.

Their response has been when questioned by police - it's safer in the streets than at home due to family environment.

Another - it's better to be in jail as it's safer than home?

Jacinta Price and many other voices continually stand up to the obvious issues currently dominating Indigenous Australians.

1. Continued abuse of children within their community.

2. Continued abuse of women (mums) within their community from men, via alcohol or drugs - which affects entire families.

Jacinta and a group of women travelled recently to Parliament House to talk to Members of Parliament regarding domestic violence within their families on children - who listened? was it reported upon by any media outlet? - No, and why not?

Of course the Activists still beat the drum for a "Voice to Parliament".

Whereby those indigenous women who want "action" not "platitudes on a piece of paper" for our Indigenous Australian children.

Paul

ending last note - their voices remain silent.

My comment on relating any BLM movement in Australia relative to Indigenous Australians is propaganda at large via America.

This cop was wrong, he was charged. He was deemed guilty. Justice served.

Ninety nine percent of Australians - I believe - totally support our "blue force".

Hi SAINTS,

For too long people have looked at the problems with a to narrow a focus. Domestic violence, alcoholism, homelessness, child neglect and the consequences of these things, incarceration and early death etc. In recent years money has not been the problem, the lack of direction in channelling resources correctly to tackle the social problems has been evident. Its now obvious that Indigenous people themselves have to be the driving force behind necessary change to break the vicious cycle of disadvantage leading to anti social behaviour and then onto prison. The last thing we want is another 30 years and worsening outcomes.