A marriage license is easier than getting a driver's license.

Personally, I find this seriously concerning, but that's just a personal opinion after hearing this matter discussed on radio.

I mean you can just go out, get married, get a marriage license so easily and cause so much damage, but getting a drivers license involves so much time and regulation.

One has to consider the percentage of people who get divorced, versus the amount of people who end up in a car accident.

Should people undergo pre-marriage counselling?

"Studies reveal that premarital counseling is an effective tool to use as you begin your married life."

http://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-connected-life/201706/do-you-really-need-premarital-counseling

Would pre-marriage counselling though break up relationships between people? Is it really worth the risk?

Dear Nathan,

The difference between marriage and driving is that the latter is enforceable, not the former.

If someone drives without a license, police can find it out quite easily.
But if someone is married without a license, how would authorities possibly know?

So even if they decree that you cannot marry without their license, still what stops you from marrying? how possibly could police see into the depths of your heart?

In Australia today, the civil act of marriage means nothing anyway.
Unlike driving, all that you can do with that silly piece of paper, you can also do without it.

Yeah, sounds reasonable.

A poorly issued marriage licence poses a less risk to life and limb than a poorly issued driver's licence.

Yuyutsu,

What about simpau marriage?

NathanJ: You seem to be conflating two issues here:

1) The ease of which some one can marry.

2) The ease which someone can be authorised to preform a marriage ceremony.

I believe that we do already have some provisions to prevent a hasty marriage. For example, I think that there is some waiting period that must be fulfilled (I think under normal circumstances it is a month). Also prenuptials have had legal bearing for sometime now, so if a couple chooses they can enter into one which should help in the case of a divorce. But ultimately it is a couple's decision to form a union (be it mariage/defacto) so they must bare the consequences if it all goes sour. In other words, any mess caused by a divorce is surely the responsibility of those who got married. Adults are meant to be wise enough to look after themselves.

Regarding the ease of being able to get a marriage licence. As far as the government is concerned a marriage is just a piece of paper work with a few associated background checks. As long as the person can prove that they can do this correctly why shouldn't they be deemed worthy of marrying folk?

And as a last remark, as Toni Lavis already points out, improperly driven cars can potentially cause substantial property loss, physically and emotionally injure and even kill not only those driving but more importantly others as well. Given this it makes sense to me that we demand that people driving on the roads have adequate training and experience.

What do you mean by a marriage 'licence'? In Australia you fill in a form which must be presented to a celebrant at least a month before the marriage date. There's no test. You can't commit bigamy, and that's about it.

Why worry about it? Marriage doesn't have much meaning in a society which allows two people of the same sex to do it. More and more people these days co-habit, raise a family and live 'happily ever after' without being married. It's a non-issue.

NathanJ, people can meet at a pub & conceive a child that night, with out even knowing each others names.

Two years of a de-facto relationship brings the same laws into play as a marriage with a licence. Such licenses are an unnecessary intrusion by the state into peoples private lives.

I suggest you stay out of others personal relationships, morals & bedrooms, as what others do is their business.

Drivers on the other hand are going to be sharing our roads, & any incompetence will endanger many others. Driving licenses should be much harder to acquire.

Marriage licence or driver licence, they're just taxes.

So cough up, and shut up!

Hasbeen has a point up to a point. That point is when dysfunctional relationships, mainly in the form of children become a burden to everyone else.

Just for Aiden!

Husband comes home unexpectedly and finds his wife in bed with the local copper;

Husband; What's go'en on here?

Copper; Just give'n ya misses the marriage test.

Husband; How'd she go?

Copper; I ran her up the one way street, she done a three point turn which was pritty bloody good. But when I reversed parked, she was was only so, so.

Husband; Did she pass?

Copper; Nah! I'll have to come back tomorrow and test her again. Gotta go now, have to test Betty in number 13, before her husband knocks off shift.

Paul1405,

So which one is Aiden married to, Betty or the slut?

Marriage is in many ways a responsibility, not simply a right. In fact I would argue marriage has many serious elements to consider, many different than driving and yet our ability to get a marriage license is so easy.

So many want the right of marriage, which includes the need for a marriage license (for a lot of people) but they don't want to take the responsibilities that go along with it.

The decision in terms of finding a marital partner, who will be part of a person's life can be difficult or easy. That decision will change a persons life and can lead to a range of societal problems if not given the seriousness it deserves.

Flow on effects can include family violence, where people have taken the lives of their partners and children. This is where pre-marriage counselling is worthy of discussion, whether it is my business or not. After all, the wider public ultimately pays the price for those actions in a range of ways.

Life is full of surprises, which people cannot predict beforehand. We are all liable to face accidents but many of us do not know how to deal with these wisely, whether it be if we hold a marriage or drivers license.

"In NSW, once a driver becomes a permanent resident a local licence should be obtained generally within three months."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_licences_in_Australia

So why is getting a marriage license so much easier? I find that so off-putting.

Dear Nathan,

«So why is getting a marriage license so much easier?»

Because it means nothing.

«Flow on effects can include family violence»

No, violence never flows on from love.
If there is no love then there is no marriage, no matter how many certificates you hold.

«So many want the right of marriage, which includes the need for a marriage license»

No, no license is needed: you can marry at any time, anyone (and even several people) without any license at all.
Alright, government might not recognise your marriage, but what's the big deal about that?

Well at the very least, as with a driving test, those applying for a marriage licence, especially the female partner, should be required to take an oral test.

One more time. There is no such thing as a marriage licence in Australia!

ttbn,

Marriage licence or marriage contract - it's still just a tax.

Nobody has yet mentioned the benefits of the Marriage Learner's Licence.

Or what about a Provisional Marriage Licence? Zero tolerance on no-sex for the first 12 months.

This is where we need to get somebody who really knows all about this sort stuff like our own Australian version of Romeo and Juliet: Dazza and Gladys B.

ttbn: "One more time. There is no such thing as a marriage licence in Australia!"

It's not exactly clear what NathanJ means when he says "marriage licence". I initially assumed that he meant the authorization of a person to be able to solemize a marriage. But he does mildly seem to be conflating the ease for a couple to marry with the ease for people to become both qualified and authorised to solemnise a marriage.

To get a "marriage licence", ie. become qualified and authorised to conduct a marriage ceremony, in the case of marriage celebrants requires them to have completed this course*: Certificate IV in Celebrancy http://training.gov.au/Training/Details/CHC41015 and to also register with the Government. (I don't know what the training requirements are for ministers of religion, but I know that they also need to be registered before they can solemnise a ceremony).

All legally valid marriages conducted in Australia must be conducted in accordance with the Marriage Act. From what I understand, for the person solemnizing the marriage, this basically just amounts to preforming background checks on those wishing to get married (eg: check that they are not about to engage in bigamy), filling out the government's paper work, and ensuring that certain proceduures when conducting the marriage ceremony are performed. (eg: exchange of vows).

After a quick internet search I've found this web-page that outlines the skills/proficiency that a celebrant needs to attain before they can conduct a marriage: http://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2018L00989 . Apparently there is also an ongoing yearly fee that must be paid (not surprising because we are dealing with government here) and additionally some yearly minimal amount of professional development.

[*By-the-way: I previously knew this is general but I just googled it to get the particulars. But the name of the course has now got me wondering why is it called a Certificate IV? Are there other sorts of certificates, eg: certificate III?. Or is this just some sort of nomenclature that the government uses to label courses in general?]

ttbn is quite right.

In Australia, there are no marriage licences so getting one is much harder than getting a driver's licence.

Dear Thinkabit,

A celebrant is not strictly required for a marriage. Nevertheless, there is no law (in Australia) to prevent anyone from officiating as a marriage celebrant. Well without approved qualifications, the marriage may not be recognised by the state, but what's the big deal?

I once asked a marriage celebrant about it and their response was that it is not an offense so long as the celebrant does not mislead by pretending to present the marriage as a "legal marriage". To be on the safe side, they said, just make sure that the word "legal" (or "legally") is never mentioned in the ceremony. Well if I was being married, I anyway wouldn't like that word to cloud my celebration!

What you receive in NSW is a 'Marriage Certificate' under the Birth, Deaths and Marriages Act 1995. Rites granted under the Marriage Act 1961. The government certificate acts as proof of marriage, and not the ornate certificate some receive from a church.

There are 8 sub sections on a Marriage Certificate. 1 Marriage, 2 Bridegroom, 3 Bride, 4 Celebrant, 5 Rites, 6 Witnesses, 7 Registering Authority, 8 Endorsements.

Splitting hairs between a Marriage Licence and Marriage Certificate.

Paul1405,

And whether a Marriage Licence or a Marriage Certificate it is still a Marriage Contract.

Which brings us to the question: What is a Marriage Contract?

Hint: You'll need to put your anthropology cap on to answer this one.

Dear Paul,

«Splitting hairs between a Marriage Licence and Marriage Certificate.»

Yes, especially when none of them is needed for marriage itself.

«The government certificate acts as proof of marriage»

It does not prove anything, no love, no commitment, no soul connection, only that the parties did some paperwork and paid the corresponding fee.

Ok, so ignore everything that I've said so far. I've just re-read what NathanJ posted and have realised that I've misunderstood what he was saying.

By "marriage licence" he means similar to what they have in other countries, eg. USA, where you go to the government (local court house?) and get a marriage licence to marry before your actual marriage ceremony. (I think we may have had a similar process here ages ago).

Somehow I misconstrued his post and thought that by "marriage licence" he meant those who are licensed (registered) to marry people.

Paul,

"Splitting hairs between a Marriage Licence and Marriage Certificate"

There is no hair-splitting at all, a licence is permission to do something a marriage certificate is proof that something was done.

Poles apart.

Point taken there Issy, it would be a rare occasion that one would need to refer to their marriage certificate. Some American states did require blood tests before issuing a marriage licence. I think you need your marriage certificate when you are getting devoiced.

There is no reason to get married now that the institution has been degraded by the Turnbull administration's same sex 'marriage' farce. Defacto relationships have the same level of protection for partners and children. Anything goes.

<<There is no hair-splitting at all, a licence is permission to do something a marriage certificate is proof that something was done.

Poles apart.>>

Well I'm now thinking, not really. A marriage license, marriage certificate or whatever one chooses to call it, requires permission to be obtained from someone else, or you cannot have one.

So I could say it's not just about proof. One does need to go through some processes, but the question is then, why should they?

Dear Nathan,

A licence is permission to do something - but marriage requires no permission.
A marriage certificate is proof that something was done - indeed, but that "something" has nothing to do with your marriage, just with the filling of certain forms and payment of certain fees.

Not requiring anybody's permission and anyway not being able to prove that you are married, why bother about any of that?

You want to marry? then go ahead and get married!
You need not seek anybody's approval, not even to tell anyone about your marriage, certainly if they are not your friends!

If everyone didn't get married then millions of people would be living in sin, the Holy Father don't want that.

Had an old Aunty, Aunty Ivy lived for about 40 years with her "boarder" Sid, he had his own room in the house, but Aunty had a double bed. Mum claimed Sid was more than a "boarder", scandal in the family. I also recall a cousin who came from a small country town to live with us in Sydney for about 9 months, all of a sudden she lost her big tummy.

Love the movie "Priest" staring Robert Carlyle.

The early scene when the young priest (Carlyle), just arrived at the rectory where he is to live with the old Parish Priest. Time for bed and the PP says goodnight, the black housekeeper is in the room, PP retires up stairs with the housekeep following, the YP is shocked.

Dear Paul,

My father used to say: "God may forgive our sins, but for the sin which we haven't sinned, even God cannot forgive us".