Should Australia give in to China's CCP and rationalize their control of the people is the way to go for society or should we resist their advances?

http://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6222034700001?fbclid=IwAR2efWO9hck0UEHCbg0n_g7mFX9FD30y4eVgReMVc6Ob0d8_oOL2cW5G7Ec

No! We rather die!

And we must prepare accordingly so if China invades and we are unable to stop them, then all Australia should be mined with nuclear dirty bombs, making it unlivable to humans and of no use to China.

Yuyutsu,

You are only saying no because you are Taiwanese and still fighting the Chinese Civil War.

I think it is inevitable that Australia will be absorbed into a Chinese Empire run by the Chinese Communist Party, on condition of course that Soot Morrison is offered up as a human sacrifice.

You must be joking!

Now that our superpower and Ali in America is surrendering to China should we resist or submit?

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=tucker+carlson+on+chinese+professor&docid=608017419381968707&mid=87E72E6AFCE8B97D336087E72E6AFCE8B97D3360&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

ttbn,
This is not a joke; Biden is aligning America with China and the Media is accepting this as inevitable. That is why Pelosi is assuring Trump goes permanently by making sure he stays out of Politics by impeachment.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2020/12/chinese-professor-we-have-people-at-the-top-of-americas-core-inner-circle-of-power/

Why are people dropping their guts these days ?

No, of course we fight to the death. We help our allies in Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Thailan, India, Indonesia etc. well before it comes to that.

Leave the capitulations to the Village Idiot.

Joe

Foul-Mouth,

Or should I say Comrade Foul-Mouth?

Tell them everything will be alright if they accept the yin and yang of Xi.

loudmouth2,
I thought so Biden is the village idiot! Have a listen to Biden on his relationship with China. China paid big money to Hunter to attract the Bidens to align with China.
http://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=856814408388716

Josephus,

You should visit Sydney. Half the population is Chinese.

We have all sorts of Chinese: Chinese-Australians, Chinese-Chinese, non-Australian-Chinese, un-Australian-Chinese, and the list goes on.

So Josephus, on behalf of all of us here downunder I'd like to send you a big Aussie "Ni Hao Mate!"

It must weigh on Biden & Harris to know how much they depend on the support of crook people & parasites !

Mr. O, I worked for 22 years as a sales representative and every week visited stores in the city of Sydney. Just travel on the train to Chatswood, Hurstville or Parramatta. Our Company used China as a manufacturing place for our products and like all Australian manufacturers we sourced from China and they expected to be paid in US Dollars.

Joe Biden during Obama's Presidency had many American manufacturers move to China. Joe Biden is a weak president and China will control him. China has spies in all the developing industries especially the tech industries. China used the Media and worked hard to remove Trump as he threatened their agenda of "ONE WORLD ORDER".

Watch how they will use the Media in Australia to unseat Scott Morrison. They want to reverse the trends in Australia to buy Australian made and owned. They have stooges in Australia that condemn Scott Morrison for placing the responsibility on China for the Covid. Hence the huge tariffs on our products.

China wants reversal of Trump laws:
http://welovetrump.com/2020/12/04/director-of-intelligence-ratcliffe-china-is-targeting-members-of-congress-12-times-the-frequency-of-iran/

Biden and Obama overlooked and allowed China to control all the areas of the China Sea, and move on South Asia.

Nobody's seriously proposing we accept China as Big Brother.

Perhaps a better question is:
Should we accept strawman threads?

I mentioned this braggadocio of China's about their friends in high places some time ago. I think that the claim was just braggadocio. It's highly unlikely that they would have leaked the video if it were true.

Dear Joe,

Thank you, no one could have presented this better.

We and our friends will fight, whether or not America is included, then we either prevail or die, either we shall win and remain free on our land or we die and be free in heaven: never capitulate to the enemies of God!

I posted this thread to find the alliances of people on this Forum. We have people like Paul Keating and Keven Rudd saying we are treating China poorly. When in reality it is China who is acting poorly.

Since millions of dissenting voices have been closed down in America, and links I have previously used coming up "not available". This is a Chinese strategy to silence dissenters, now watch how those voices are punished in America, the supposed Land of the FREE!

They will not just go after those that entered the Capital Building but also those that support the values of Trump and American independence from China, WHO and the Climate Conspiracy, promotion of the Race conflict and Religion.

We have the same agenda working in Australia to attempt to remove by Laws thought difference from that held by an Leftist view of a diverse society and opinion.

Josephus,

What do you think of The Forum's pro-China camp which includes Foul-Mouth, Foxy, david f, etc?

I think Foul-Mouth is a Chinese operative or collaborator whose purpose is to promote the views and interests of the Beijing mob. Have you noticed how he is always trying to draw our attention away from the Chinese and making out that the Chinese never do anything wrong?

Should WE accept. WE are not the U.S, and the question has arisen from what a foreign country might or might not do, not Australia.

Josephus says that "I posted this thread to find the alliances of people on this Forum". Alliance to what? The post, with a reference to an entire day's session of Sky News, not any particular item is, for those who bothered to plough through the thing to get to what stirred Josephus up in the first place, about America and what people think Biden will do. Nothing about Australia or anything that Morrison will do.

Now that Americans seem to have lost the plot altogether, and demonstrated that they have very little in common with Australia or Australians when it comes to politics and public behaviour, we need to step back a little. We have good relationships with just about every country in the world, except China. Our history is nothing like America's. They broke away from the Crown using armed force; they fought among themselves in a Civil War. Now they are fighting among themselves again. All those posters who have been unnaturally fascinated by America ever since Trump became president (both sides of politics) have been at it for so long they are carrying on as though Australia is part of America.

It is now clear that America is going to be too occupied with itself and its own problems to be much use to us. Time for us to concentrate on ourselves, our defence our production, and allies and trading parties in our own region and members of our Commonwealth.

Mr. O the ideology is bigger than the heads of CCP, it is all those who cannot accept different values with grace without laws and political violence. A Free society means free to hold to personal beliefs, which is something we do not witness in China. We are now witnessing in America by Democrats, the dissenting media platforms are closed and removed, and the owners jailed.

As of today joe Biden is dividing America by Race by supporting only the black small business with grants. This panders to the communist BLM that Kamila Harris supports.
http://thepostmillennial.com/watch-joe-biden-says-he-will-only-prioritize-non-white-male-owned-businesses-for-aid

Americ stands on the brink of a Civil War.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PFC3f3uqmE

The Covid 19 virus is part of China's attempt to bring in dependence on Governments for survival. The virus is life threatening in itself, but the Police behavior under orders from Government is threatening arrest and fines to bring about submission to Government. Whereas Governments should be the representative voice of the majority of people

Josephus,

America won't have a civil war over a person like Trump.

It will take something a lot bigger and more important than a Donald Trump for America to have a civil war on its hands.

But Donald Trump will be happy to hear you think that. It will inflate his ego.

Mr. O, Trump merely represents a hope and ideas and job creation for blue collar workers, that Obama and Biden transferred to China. Everyone on the Left is focused on the man Trump, but the hopes of 74 million Americans has been taken away in Biden / Harris who is more left extremist than Sanders. Sanders would have better for America than the team of Biden / Harris.

Impeaching Trump will not stop the anger felt by the loss of hope in his ideas.

Josephus,

There are bigger forces at play in the world than a Donald Trump.

He is just a ridiculous person and it should be a lesson to American politicians to choose candidates from amongst their own statesman-like kind.

Otherwise you might end up with Kim Kardashian as the President. Because if a Donald Trump can happen than a Kim Kardashian is also a possibility.

Do you really want to have to sing Hail To The Chief to 'Big Butts' Kardashian?

Biden is now taking action to silence anyone that published unflattering articles about him or Kamila and his family. Do we know another World leader who silences his critics? Can you see how power corrupts.
http://americassheriff.com/how-venezuela-just-used-a-hate-law-to...
And in the socialist hellhole of Venezuela, dictator Nicolas Maduro and his allies just leveraged the concept of a “hate law” to silence some of the Marxist tyrant’s last remaining critics, AP reports. “Francisco Belisario, a Venezuelan mayor, retired general and member of

No Jose' we should not accept China as big brother, no more than we should accept America as big brother. I have said many times on the Forum that I believe Australia should follow a course as a nonaligned neutral nation, concentrating on rational self defence. We should be building strategic economic and social partnerships, as an equal, not as a servant with other nations in our region, and that includes China. Any kind of "security" treaty sees the weaker nation being drawn into wars, not of their doing but wars that serve the interest of the dominant big brother regime. Such is the case of Australia and the ANZAS treaty with the United States, because of our alliance or is that reliance, with the US we have been dragged into unjustified wars in Korea, Vietnam and the Middle East, none served Australia's interests, but did much for the interests of the United States.

Dear Paul,

An insurance policy costs. It can be painful to pay the premiums, but not anywhere like the cost if your house burns down. Yes, there comes the stage where the insurance companies charge too much and then you must switch insurers (and forfeit the "loyalty bonus"). Perhaps we should have switched yesteryear, but is this stage really upon us at this time?

While some form or another of insurance is acceptable, decent people do not go and burn their neighbours' houses in winter as a way to insure that their house doesn't catch fire in summer.

Trading with the Chinese regime is like that: they will use your goods in their war machine and in return keep you at the bottom of their list, burning your neighbours first. If not stopped, sooner or later they will work down their list and burn your house too!

Yuyutsu,

"Trading with the Chinese regime is like that: they will use your goods in their war machine and in return keep you at the bottom of their list, burning your neighbours first. If not stopped, sooner or later they will work down their list and burn your house too!"

You are spot on there.

My only criticism is that "Chinese regime" should just read "Chinese" because we are talking about the Chinese nation-state as distinct from just the Chinese state.

You need to speak of the nation-state if you want to understand the PRC. Remember it is the PEOPLE'S Republic of China not the Communists Republic of China.

Paul, who do you propose we ally with if we refuse to surrender to China if they are bearing down with 40,000,000 armed soldiers and 1,000 war ships and submarines and 20,000 aircraft. Do we surrender, to save lives? They are planning that we comply as they cut off trade routes.

America under Biden is now an ally of China a reversal of Trump Policy and is according to AOC proposing adopting CCP policy. It has been proposed by AOC that the children of Trump Voters be removed from their parents and be reeducated in Democrat socialist World Views. Remember Communism believes this is the only way to unify a society, and currently America is bordering on Civil war, because of political views.

Josephus,

If we had audio with our written posts on The Forum all anyone would hear is you crying and lamenting all the time.

In fact if we can go virtual we could probably have you tears dripping onto our keyboards.

BTW

I just saw a news headline on ABC TV this morning saying that Biden has told the Democrats in Congress to 'multi-task' after the inauguration.

Hmmm . . . . . looks like they are not going to let up on Trump and they will be going after blood.

GOOD.

Josephus,

Weird capitulationism. I guess before WW II, they called it appeasement.

Of course Australia should be firming up its alliances with India, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines and all Pacific Island countries.

Of course we should be building up our defences, our armed forces, our military technology. And don't forget that any Chinese armed forces intent on invading Australia has to come around and down the east coast, and down to Perth. Nobody in their right mind is going to invade Australia from the north or from Darwin, down through Alice Springs which will probably be one of the safest places in Australia.

On that score however, we should cancel the lease on Darwin harbour and set it up as a major joint allied naval and air base.

No need to lie own on our bellies just yet, Josephus.

Joe

Whatever you say Guangzhou Joe.

Pretending you're all of a sudden a dinky di Aussie instead of a Chinese plant might fool some people but doesn't fool me.

What is our government and big business doing to wean ourselves off China? Nothing! Morrison just mouths platitudes and smirks. Big Business has no interest in Australia's 25 million people when it has China's 1.5 billion. BB gets it's rubbish made in China. Australia has only mining and primary industry that China is increasingly refusing to buy - cherries being the latest thing. There is a good case for going backwards twenty years, learning to do without China, and recovering manufacturing and self sufficiency. But, we must have willing and capable politicians to do this. Sadly, you keep voting for the ones we have now, who will eventually give in to China because they don't care and they are too lazy and stupid to do anything else.

ttbn,

You do know what China's two biggest exports are, don't you? (1) People and (2) environmental degradation.

And Australia has been getting a lot of that from China over the past four decades.

Foul-Mouth,

I'm starting to think the Chinese will attack from every direction.

They'll come down the east and west coasts with their naval forces and from Darwin through the centre with their air and land forces.

It will be one giant swarm of parasites destroying every living thing in it's path.

Oh well, Australians brought it on themselves so they only have themselves to blame.

I suppose you and the rest of The Forum's pro-China camp will be happy especially when Xi pins the Golden Dim Sum on your chest.

I just found this news item which explains why the Commonwealth is no longer anxious for the Chinese to have control over companies in Australia.

http://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/why-did-the-government-block-the-china-led-probuild-sale-what-does-this-mean-for-mergers-and-acquisitions/ar-BB1cJgQo

It's all about national security. Which to me says that the Commonwealth is now apprehensive about the presence of the Chinese in Australia and the extent to which the Chinese can access sensitive sites.

Of course The Forum's pro-China camp like Foul-Mouth aka Guangzhou Joe, Foxy aka the Beijing Butterfly and david f all will say that this is just another racist attack on the Chinese and that the Chinese have just as much right to be here as the rest of us.

Myself, I say it's all too late because the enemy is already inside the gate.

Hi Yuyutsu,

You describe the ANZAUS TREATY as an insurance policy, I would describe it as a dog collar and lead, so we are miles apart on its description. It's a strange insurance policy that states the insurer will only "consult" with the insured should his house burn down, it's just as strange that the insurer requires the insured to pop around h and cut his grass once a month for nothing in return.

Trying to build our own "battleship" to oppose China is ridiculous, they will have 10 "battleships" maybe a 100 to our one, so we may as well have none. Now, there is something Australia can do to subdue Chinese expansion in one regard. That is for Australia and New Zealand as the two developed nations in the South-West Pacific region to direct more aid to island nations (per capita the most aid dependent region on Earth). At the moment China is making great advances with island nations by the use of aid programs. I can tell you, Chinese aid is most welcome in countries like Fiji and elsewhere, where aid is desperately needed. The Chinese are doing a terrific job in Fiji of using aid to ingratiate themselves with the Fijians. If China was wanting to build military bases in these countries in return for aid, I can't see them saying no, not when there is no alternative.

Hi Paul,

You're right about aiding Pacific nations, but Australia will have a huge job to do that effectively and in a way which counters Chinese efforts.

There are more than twenty independent central and south Pacific nations, each of which could furnish attractive naval and air bases for the Chinese military machine for comparatively little outlay.

But yes, Australia has to increase its aid budget massively if only to ultimately protect its borders.

Joe

Foul-Mouth,

Too late.

The Chinese have got us by the short and curlies and it's now time to put Mr Opinion's 10 point plan to placate the Chinese into action.

Better late than never is what they're now saying in Beijing.

I see you are now using 'Chinese' as in the Chinese nation-state viz PRC. Good boy! You deserve to get a gold stamp in your homework book.

Dear Paul,

Every idea is welcome.
If regional aid works then it is a good tactic to adopt for our quiver.
But on its own, it is just one tactic, not a complete strategy.

"Insurance" is only an imperfect analogy, but so is "dog collar".
Collars are unpleasant, I agree, but dogs cannot escape by removing their own collar while we can remove our collar at any time we choose. We will not be punished if we do, but well, we would then remain without protection. I would like us to have our own nuclear and other non-conventional weapons to deter China, but this takes time. Once we do, I will certainly break that collar.

What do you think about the scorched-earth strategy that I proposed?
Until we have our own nukes to deter China and given that we cannot withstand the Chinese army on our own, we could still mine Australia with dirty bombs and the like, so that if it is invaded then this continent would become uninhabitable and China will find no joy in holding it.

Yuyutsu,
I'm not in agreement in placing mines through the place in the case of an invasion. We have Chinese in every town in Australia, loyal Australians but are they also supporters of the Homeland. It would seem so by their exporting of special items to the homeland. We can accommodate the people but not the communist ideology, it is socially ruinous; when you see what is happening Hong Kong. They cannot accept One Country Two economic systems with freedom of ideas.

Hi Yuyutsu, Mr O and Joe

I am disappointed that you would advocate nuclear proliferation, "our own nukes to deter China". It's clearly shown that bombs are not a good deterrent, take India and Pakistan, both have nuclear weapons, but Pakistan is under resourced in the field, and is more likely to launch a nuclear attack because of that reason, a first strike attempted knockout, a limited regional nuclear war. If Australia was to develop atomic bombs then so could dozens of other countries as well. Simply making the likelihood of nuclear war that much greater.

What we need to combat China's build up is not military treaties, WWI demonstrates what happenings when you go down that path, we need economic and social treaties. "scorched-earth" ScumO' and his conservative cohorts showed us what a scorched-earth policy achieves with last summers bushfires.

Mr O, I agree people is a Chinese export, well the removal of those people is seen as excess to requirements. We should be greatly concerned that we have some politicians whose self-interest is such that they put themselves before Australia when dealing with China. What a joke was Morrisons glove puppet Birmingham when dealing with China recently, we should be embarrassed as a nation that this clown was waving his hankie at China's door, and all he got was a side of beef thrown in his face.

Joe, absolutely, aid dollars spent in our region are a far better investment as a defence for us than what most people realise. I have to be honest, speaking with a friend in Fiji, China is a concern to him, but at the end of the day, decent health, education, roads and other badly needed basics are a far greater concern. Who pays for those badly need items, he don't much care. My friend remembers how his father and grandfather "slaved" in the sugar industry for the British.

Paul1405,

I have never advocated having nuclear weapons.

Yuyutsu wants it because he is a loyal Taiwanese and is still fighting the Chinese Civil War.

Foul-Mouth wants it because he is a Chinese plant aka Guangzhou Joe and is trying to stir up trouble that will allow China to justify an invasion of Australia.

Simple Simon Birmingham. Should I say any more?

Sorry Mr O, that should read; "Yuyutsu, I am disappointed that you would advocate nuclear proliferation"

As one of the few who understands where China is coming from I know you would not advocate nuclear proliferation, MAD idea.

How should we react if China was to send one of their "gun boats" up the Parramatta River. Lob a few shells into a couple of riverside burbs, and blast out the message "Cop that you white devils!" a bit of gun boat diplomacy I'd say, learnt that one from the British. That would then be followed by the thrust of cold steel up the Khyber Pass of a few old fogies, don't like cold steel up their Khyber pass tose old fogies. Just to show the white devils whose running the show these days. ScumO' could send Glove Puppet Birmingham to wave the white hanky at Mr Xi and friends, tell em' we are so sorry for trying to sell them shonky plonk and dodgy cherries.

Paul1405,

Sydney is already half Chinese so I reckon it will be a real pushover.

They'll all line up along the Parramatta River to welcome the Chinese navy, waving their little red and gold flags and their permanent residency visas to prove that they are not Australians.

No problem Mr O, should the Chinese navy sail into Sydney Harbour, we are prepared. ScumO' shall order the dispatch of a flotilla of ferries from Circular Quay, diverted from the Taronga Park run, under the command Of Vice Admiral Brassbottom, and loaded to the bilges with our finest squadron of sea scouts. The lads will repel those pesky invaders with out latest hi-tech water pistols, kitted by the lovely ladies of the CWA! Sounds good? Can you see any problems?

Paul, I must take you to task for making Morrison responsible for the Fires. As though he created a heat wave, I wonder if you are praising him now for the coolest summer we have had s in that same area this year. If only He could control the weather.

Paul1405,

It's already started, back in 2019:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJzcRoDA5sE

Soot Morrison flew out of the country the day before they sailed into Sydney Harbour leaving Berejiklian to explain the surprise visit.

I think she instantly blamed old Dazza just because he had the keys to the house and the keys to her heart in glove box of his car. Talk about getting thrown under the bus.

The creme de la creme of Sydney's un-Australian Chinese community were on the docks to cheer them in and several platoons of the ships' marines reconnoitred the city to search out where we were stashing the cans of our internationally famous baby formula.

Proud Boy Jose'

Glad you could pop in from your rioting duties, how is the pillaging and plundering going in Washington DC these days, are you on your tea break? Since Moses parted the Red Sea, and Jesus walked on water. It would be no problem for St ScumO' to conjure up a weather event, what do want, flood, wind, rain, how about a bit of thunder and lightning over your way to put the wind up Sleepy Old Joe Biden.

Mr O,

Is Gladys squadron commander down at the Nose Bay Yacht Club on Sydney Harbour?

Paul1405,

Don't worry, Buccaneer Gladys B and her First Mate Dazza and their scurvy crew of LNP MPs will keep the harbour clear of those baby formula thieving pirates from the South China Sea.

For god's sake, you blokes, don't give up your day jobs, if you have one.

Joe

Not sure how Josephus thinks that "loyal Australians" can also be "supporters of the Homeland" - particularly as that Homeland is Communist China, a deadly enemy of Australia.

Dear Josephus,

Very well, I believe that we agree on never giving up to the Chinese communists. So you don't like the idea of scorched-earth, but then what alternate strategy can you propose to prevent Chinese invasion of Australia, or in the least, to prevent this continent and its natural resources from becoming a jumping-board for China to harass the rest of the world?

---

Dear Paul,

That's alright, I understand where you are coming from - we just have different priorities:

I prefer the grave over subordination to the Chinese regime,
I prefer poverty over deals and treaties with the devil.

I was however suggesting to have our own nukes as a way to allow us to become independent of America. Wouldn't you consider that important enough? Till then, American nukes are the only reason why we were not already invaded by China.

Foul-Mouth,

Looking for Reds under the bed like The Forum's pro-China camp is my day job.

Why, what do you think I do with myself?

If Australia buckles under pressure to China then the Chinese will just walk all over us and will dictate its demands for Australian compliance forever.

And Australians may as well get down on their hands and knees bow to the Chinese.

Any Aussie who supports China's interests over Australian interests should be made to wear a 'Chairman Mao Pantsuit'.
- That way we can identify those people more easily.

Albanese is going to give a speech on foreign policy today. It has been leaked that he intends to bad mouth Morrison for "cosying up" to Donald Trump because he is "afraid of far right extremists and fringe dwellers". The truth is that Morrison is too lazy and disinterested to reveal his thoughts on anything.

If Albanese is the best that the Labor party can come up with, we have as much to fear from them as we do the CCP.

Armchair,
What do you think of those who support a rules based system no matter which country it favours?

Village Idiot,

You ask: " .... what do you think I do with myself?"

I dare not contemplate.

Joe

Hey Aiden,

"What do you think of those who support a rules based system no matter which country it favours?"

Well in principle I believe in fairness to all, so that means 'What you do for one, you do for the other'.

- But I'm not exactly sure what you're alluding to, so I'd have so say 'It depends on what rules specifically you're talking about, and whether others agree to play by those rules'.

Dear Critic,

«Well in principle I believe in fairness to all, so that means 'What you do for one, you do for the other'.»

Particularly in romantic life?

"Well in principle I believe in fairness to all, so that means 'What you do for one, you do for the other'."

I do to, but unfortunately the Australian government, and I'll include the Labor party in that as well, do not see things that way. Today I had the pleasure to take a couple of fellas from West Papua out for the day to see a bit of Brisbane. Two nicer chaps you could not meet. Their mission in Australia for the past few months has been to bring to the attention of as many as possible, including government, the shocking events that are taking place in their homeland, nothing short of murder and genocide, Covid hasn't help get the message accross. Recently 45,000 West Papuans have been forced off their land into the jungle by the Indonesian army in the interest of large multinational mining companies. Many of these people are dying from disease and starvation. Something like 100,000 people have been killed by Indonesian forces over the years, as resistance to the genocide has grown. Does the Australian government want to know about these murders and genocide, does it care, the only answer is no!

Hey Yuyutsu,
"Particularly in romantic life?"

Not exactly sure how to respond or if were on the same page here, but yeah sure.

Hey Paul,
It's oil companies, pretty sure Exxon Mobil has a big gas project there.
I remember they built a big heavy lift airport in the middle of nowhere big enough to fly in Antanov, and they shot up any of the local people who were displaced or disagreed.
And the non- Papua New Guinean looking bloke in charge of the country is more or less siding with the oil companies for the revenue it brings.

I'm sure the government is aware of the situation -
The question is what exactly do you want or expect them to do?
I haven't really paid any attention to this situation for a while.

Hi AC,

Unbelievable as it may sound, West Papua has less friends in the world than North Korea. Their only friend seems to be PNG, sort of. they to fear Indonesia What do they want from Australia, just to listen to their plight, and if possible to help them, maybe speak with our friends and the UN and of course Indonesia. They tell me China is Indonesia's best friend, I didn't want to talk muck politics as it was a social day. As a bottom line they would accept incorporation into PNG. Multinationals are using private mercenaries are security, they are armed to the teeth and they use their power whenever they like The Indonesian army is a tool of private companies, and officers are in their pay

Hey Paul1405,
I must've been thinking of PNG not West Papua.
found this article here from 2016 enlightening on the situation there, and as you said, it is indeed the mining companies.
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/nov/02/100-bn-dollar-gold-mine-west-papuans-say-they-are-counting-the-cost-indonesia

Of note in that article: you see how immigration can be used as a weapon, to change the demographics of the people to ones who will support a particular government?
To more or less wipe out the existing people living in a place.
I mean lets say they now say 'We're going to hold free and fair elections!'.
- Well that doesn't matter anymore does it because the West Papuans themselves are now the minority;
They can't possibly vote their way out of it because they simply don't have the numbers to do so.

The oil and mining industries can be rather nasty in poor nations so I'm told, and yes they do use ex-military security contractors (Mercenaries)
They can just go in and drill anywhere right under the noses of tribal people like this and run pipelines to loading platforms 30klms offshore like they do in Louisiana or forced labour.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Offshore_Oil_Port

I guess Indonesia has more to gain by cosying up to China, I can see how it would be in both of their interests to be friends.

Incorporating West Papua into PNG seems to be the best option these people can hope for.

Hi AC,

" .... Incorporating West Papua into PNG seems to be the best option these people can hope for. .... "

Yes ! And their 'best friend' in that initiative would eventually have to be Australia. Politics is a difficult game.

Joe

"Politics is a difficult game" too true Joe.

Trumps outgoing secretary of state Mike Pompeo urged Australia to rightly condemn China for human rights violations against Uighurs in Xinjiang, and there is no doubt China is guilty of such crimes. At a time when Trump was courting Xi Jinping he was reported as telling the dictator that the concentrations camps for Uighurs was “exactly the right thing to do”. Pompeo was being just a little hypocritical in not calling out human rights violations within the US directed against Native Americans, Blacks and Hispanics, or the human rights violations committed by American allies such as Israel and Saudi Arabia. Australia should also be a little bit less hypocritical as well, and more universal in calling out such abuse.

When is a terrorist a freedom fighter, when he's on your side.

Hi Paul,

Yes, you're right on all counts in relation to Pompeo. China does seem to have a policy of eventually exterminating the Uighurs and other Turkic/Mongol groups in Xinjiang.

Joe

Hi Joe,

Agree, "China does seem to have a policy of eventually exterminating the Uighurs and other Turkic/Mongol groups in Xinjiang." Can't help but think China used Western Anti-Muslim sentiment as "justification" for moving against the Uighur "terrorists". The Tibetan's could be next, with an unpopular religion. Any thoughts?

A message from the Big Xi:

"Ni hao, chop, chop Australia. You now China!"

Hi Paul,

Yes, eventually all minorities, I suspect. And there are maybe 200 million people from minority ethnic groups in China, where they have gradually been pushed (mostly) south and west by the majority Hans over the past two thousand years and their land taken.

China has had, after all, an imperialist regime since, well, always, really - certainly since the 500-Year War period up to about the time of Christ. In recent times, it has had hostile relations up to outright war with many of its neighbours; even Laos:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Laos_relations

So yes, some sort of aggressive acts are always on the cards with China. But there is a lot of land and sea for it to get across before its armies reach Australia. But 'be prepared' !

Joe

Foul-Mouth,

Just open your arms to the Chinese and embrace your Asianess.

That's all they are asking. There's no need for Australia to lose lives in a war it cannot win.

The Chinese will look after you. Australia is a big place so there is plenty of space for the Chinese to build re-education camps to house all of you.

And look, Australia is now begging the Chinese for forgiveness:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/trade-minister-dan-tehan-writes-to-new-chinese-counterpart-in-attempt-to-end-trade-dispute/ar-BB1d06UT

Good to see. Now the rest of you get down on your hands and knees and start pleading for forgiveness too.

Australians have only got themselves to blame for jumping into bed with the Chinese and I reckon you can all pay the price for your stupidity.

PS Went shopping in one of Sydney's main shopping centres this (Saturday) midday and I reckon 7 in 10 of people shopping or working behind the counters were Chinese.

And they all had the same expression on their face: Won't be long and all this belong China.

This will gladden the hearts of The Forum's pro-China camp:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-23/china-authorises-coast-guard-to-fire-on-foreign-ships-if-needed/13084754

And Mr Opinion gets to say I TOLD YOU SO.

Misop,

I'll probably be taken out and shot in the street, while appeasers like you will be appointed to be heads of concentration camps and execution squads, as in every 'socialist' revolutionary take-over since 1917. At least, I'd rather go that way than yours.

On the other hand, you may be just another village idiot, perhaps still a schoolkid, totally unaware of the significance of what he/she is writing. In your defence, that makes more sense.

Joe

Foul-Mouth,

I'm just being a realist in a world created by people like you.

You created the Chinese beast with all your talk about how good the Chinese are and now you have to face the circumstances of your stupidity for doing so.

Smart guys like me are just angry because we saw it coming and couldn't do anything to stop the guys like you who aren't smart from letting the Chinese get into such a position.

Thanks Foul-Mouth. The boyz in Beijing will pin a medal on you for helping it happen.

I TOLD YOU SO

https//www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/23/taiwan-reports-large-incursion-by-chinese-air-force

I TOLD YOU SO

http//www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/23/taiwan-reports-large-incursion-by-chinese-air-force

Mr O,

Why would China want to physically invade Australia? With the messy situation of Australia having some kind of phony treaty with the USA, the Americans are great at making treaties, look how many they made with the Native Americans, the Mohicans are still thankful to this day for their treaty with Uncle Sam. For China, costly destruction and possible all-out war such an invasion could entail would be counter productive. Is it not better to hold Australia as some kind of semi vassal state, with dutiful politicians oozing with China friendly policies, and a compliant people ever at the ready to "Lift that bail, and tote that Pale" for the betterment of the Fatherland? What more could we ask for?

The chances of China TRYING to invade Australia are slim, no more than 1%. They are evil, but not suicidal.

If they do try, then we and our friends will cut them to pieces. We might die too in the process and there may even be no humanity left, but certainly not a China.

Our main vulnerability though, is our dependence on imported oil for transport. It is quite feasible for China to block our supply routes and sink any oil tanker that tries to reach Australia. It should therefore be our top priority to restore our oil production and refining capacity.

We should also make every effort to restore our local production of everything so we will no longer need to depend on anyone ever again. COVID-19 provides us with the golden opportunity to do just that.

China has authorized firing on ships in South China Sea.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-23/china-authorises-coast-guard-to-fire-on-foreign-ships-if-needed/13084754?fbclid=IwAR23CK8sNcAxrwVQhaGzfqRygct6bGwgoAP6tGurR_oQEGUkxCvkT1Zl7QY

Sorry, Josephus,

I may have had you wrong and lumped you in with the Village Idiot. I apologise.

Joe

China sees Malasia, the Philippines and Indonesia, Papua new Guinea and Australia New Zealand and the Islands of the Pacific as weak, in need of proper resource and intellectual management. Now the America under Biden is cozying up to China while Russia stands as their traditional enemy, we in the South Pacific are vulnerable.

"China has rapidly built its profile and influence in the South Pacific. While the COVID-19 pandemic does provide China an opportunity to further grow its influence in the Pacific, the cost will be much higher. Greater resolve from the West, greater awareness within the Pacific, and growing financial demands at home and abroad may all make the price of China’s aspiring influence in the Pacific too high for the country to bear. While China has far greater resources to bring to bear, Australia and New Zealand have far deeper resolve. The year ahead will reveal just how much further China is willing to go and how much it is willing to spend to build its influence in the South Pacific".

http://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/risks-china-s-ambitions-south-pacific

The Village Idiot and other China-appeasers won't like this one:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-25/why-china-building-border-walls-with-vietnam-myanmar/13068344

Fascinating: In 'Against the Grain', James C. Scott proposes that, in early societies (including China), walls were often built precisely to keep people in, so that they could be taxed and drafted for forced labour. Brilliant book !

Of course, walls (think Hadrian, and perhaps China) can also be built in the realisation that one's armies can't go any further. The Rhine river acted in this way to keep the barbarian tribes out of the Roman Empire, but that didn't work all that well, given that the rag-tag mob called the 'Goths' invaded Rome itself.

And of course, the Mongols and the Manchus both invaded China through the walls.

Joe

I suggest its time for a "Rudolf Hess" type mission, whereby the Morrison glove puppet, Simon Birmingham crash lands an ultra-light aircraft in far western China. If they wont answer the front door we'll sneak in the back door. From there Simon being adequately provisioned with a dozen Krispy Kreme doughnuts and a can of Fanta, can make the arduous trek east, undetected, to the Palace of the Emperor Xi Jinping. Simon bearing gifts for the emperor, a lump of Aussie coal and a chunk of Aussie iron-ore, the Chinese just love Aussie coal and iron-ore, can't get enough. Simon could then talk turkey with Emperor Xi Jinging, telling Xi cut the crap or else!

Should Simon fail in his mission, the I suggest a bit of "gun boat diplomacy" will be required. A flotilla of ex Sydney ferries could be sent up the Yangtze to show the Chinese we mean business!

Foul-Mouth,

In a similar fashion to the Romans' Limes along its frontier with Germania the wall is there to keep barbarians out not to keep the Chinese in.

You need to think about the idea of the Chinese nation-state and how it constructs itself to understand the Chinese.

I know you're not into the Arts things like history, sociology, archaeology, anthropology, philosophy, etc., which obviously makes it hard for you to understand these sorts of things.

Foul-Mouth,

You might also want to think about it as an extension of the Great Wall to delineate the new Empire of the Chinese Communist Party vis-a-vis the Other (ie non-Chinese to you).

I know these sorts of concepts are difficult for you to grasp but please persist because I have great hope that you will be able to learn things with our continued discussions.

Village Idiot,

I would suggest that there would be far more people trying to get out of China these days than trying to get in.

So there's plenty of room for appeasers :)

Joe

Foul-Mouth,

You seem to have trouble grasping the concept of the Chinese nation-state and how the Chinese see themselves.

According to your line of thinking we should expect all the people who didn't vote for the LNP at the last election be trying to leave Australia.

The world doesn't work that way.

About 800 million of the 1.5 billion Chinese in China support - at one level or another - the nation-state they celebrate as the People's Republic of China.

And they're the ones who control the economy, bureaucracies, police, military, etc. And they're the ones who see Australia as part of Asia and a land where they can transmigrate their people and extend the Chinese diaspora and expand the Communist Chinese Empire.

Which is exactly what you and your pro-China buddies want.

Looks like things are starting to heat up:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/xi-jinping-warns-against-new-cold-war-in-davos-speech/ar-BB1d4W48

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australia-calls-for-restraint-and-peace-as-chinese-military-escalates-taiwan-incursions/ar-BB1d3RT2

Xi telling the world not to decouple from China or else! I think the loser re decoupling will be China not the rest of the world which is now wanting to develop local supplies and become economically independent of China. I reckon this is what Biden will be pushing for as he moves towards a Made in USA society pulling American capital back behind the border.

And Australia being dragged into a war over Taiwan. Well we knew it was just a matter of time. In a confrontation with China Australia is only small but the US needs all the allies it can get. Put your helmets on folks because here come the Chinas!

Well there is not much Australia can help Taiwan militarily with and we badly need our forces here to protect our own shores, but there are certain basic other things that we can and should do immediately without further excuse, this being only the first step:

* Rebuild local oil reservoirs and refineries.
* Rebuild local publicly-owned manufacturing capabilities to produce anything from 'A' to 'Z'.
* Watch every product's label carefully and mandate that "Made in China" labels must be prominent, at least 1cm in height and in clearly contrasting colours.
* Recognise independent Taiwan, exchange ambassadors and support its UN membership.
* Continue to expose, condemn and dispel any politician who had dealings with China.
* Offer reasonable support packages to nearby countries/islands to counter Chinese offers and to get them out of crippling financial debt to China.
* Invite more American troops into Australia, including nuclear-armed vessels. Same for other forces such as India, if willing.
* Expel all Chinese students or officials found to spy on or intimidate other students/teachers.
* Completely defund any organisation (such as universities) that provides a platform supporting the CCP on or around their premises.
* Accept and welcome all refugees who flee Hong-Kong after ascertaining that they indeed oppose the CCP.
* Openly invite the Dalai Lama to talk here. Watch and register any people of Chinese origins that react negatively - and keep their list for the next stage.

Hi Yuyutsu,

Yep, sounds fair enough.

Joe

Foul-Mouth,

I've just promoted you to Lt Colonel and you will be leading the first wave of defence against the Chinese marines that will be landing at Port Darwin in their millions.

I'm sure you and the members of your suicide platoon are up to the task.

Australia is depending on you Foul-Mouth.

Mein Fuhrer Hasbeen will provide air cover in one our later model Tiger Moths (it even has guns).

Village Idiot,

I finished my schooling in Darwin. Back then, there were still steel spikes in the sea-approaches to all the beaches, put there to hinder any Japanese landing. Our house in Parap had a couple of bullet-holes, they helped with the ventilation.

So yes, if I'm offered such a position ......

Joe