.

Our Prime Minister said :

“One and free” is and must be the story of every Australian and it’s the way we truly Advance Australia Fair”

That may be, but is Australia truly “fair”, as Peter Dodds McCormick wrote in 1878 ? Was it ever “fair” ? Is it “fair” today ?

What exactly did McCormick mean by “fair” ? Did it include our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander compatriots ?

http://www.pm.gov.au/media/australians-one-and-free
.

Not surprisingly, I voted for Waltzing Matilda to become our national anthem in the 1974 referendum.

After all, I wrote it, didn’t I ?

This is not the original version as I wrote it back in 1895 but I just happen to like it as I think it best translates the spirit of the ballad in urban society which is the fate of most of us Aussies today :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGpwgHqlfWo&ab_channel=WilliamBladon

.

Dear Banjo P.,

I think that what our current PM has said is a good
goal to aim for. Is any country really fair to all
of it's people?

Possibly not. But the rule of law
should be applied equally. Of course we have the
latest examples of what's been happening in the US
for "We the people". And for many life is anything but fair.

Of course here in Australia there are quite a few things that
could be improved. Same Sex Marriage legislation was a step
in the right direction - regarding equality. Perhaps
something more positive can be achieved for our Indigenous
people - to which everyone could agree. It's worth discussing.

I would like to see "We are One and We are Many" become our
National Anthem. I think it says it all for everyone.

Foxy,

Your absence from The Forum has not made you any wiser.

The amendment 'One and free' and Morrison's calls for patriotism vis-a-vis a purported trade dispute with China are both about Soot repairing his public image following his inactions in the 2019 bushfire catastrophe. He now sees himself as the leader of a free and united liberal democracy in which every man, woman and child will have the right to own a chunk of coal they can call their own.

PS While you were away I discovered that Hasbeen is a fascist (he likes to be call 'mein Fuhrer' from now on) and Yuyustu is a Taiwanese nationalist sent he to turn people against the Chinese-Chinese.

I think for our Scot 'Amicus'- 'Fair' meant 'Beautiful'. But you knew that.

Dear Mr O,

I would not describe myself as being "wise".
My life has been a work in progress and still is.
However, I do believe that a "fair go" is an]
important part of Australian identity and culture
and for any PM to try to aim for that is a good thing.

I don't think that Hassie is what you claim him to be.
I've known Hassie for a long time. He is not an
extremist.

As for any issues with China? That is something that I
would prefer to leave to people more knowledgeable on the subject.
The issue is a complex one - but I am sure that our government
knows (from its experienced advisers - what
approach to take).

Advance Australia Fair Lyrics:

Australia's sons let us rejoice,
For we are young and free;
We've golden soil and wealth for toil,
Our home is girt by sea;
Our land abounds in Nature's gifts
Of beauty rich and rare;
In history's page, let every stage
Advance Australia fair!
In joyful strains then let us sing,
"Advance Australia fair!"

When gallant Cook from Albion sail’d,
To trace wide oceans o’er,
True British courage bore him on,
Till he landed on our shore.
Then here he raised Old England’s flag,
The standard of the brave;
With all her faults we love her still,
“Brittannia rules the wave!”
In joyful strains then let us sing
“Advance Australia fair!” 

Beneath our radiant southern Cross,
We’ll toil with hearts and hands;
To make this Commonwealth of ours
Renowned of all the lands;
For those who’ve come across the seas
We’ve boundless plains to share;
With courage let us all combine
To advance Australia fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing
“Advance Australia fair!” 

While other nations of the globe
Behold us from afar,
We’ll rise to high renown and shine
Like our glorious southern star;
From England, Scotia, Erin’s Isle,
Who come our lot to share,
Let all combine with heart and hand
To advance Australia fair!
In joyful strains then let us sing
“Advance Australia fair!” 

Should foreign foe e’er sight our coast,
Or dare a foot to land,
We’ll rouse to arms like sires of yore
To guard our native strand;
Brittannia then shall surely know,
Beyond wide ocean’s roll,
Her sons in fair Australia’s land
Still keep a British soul.
In joyful strains then let us sing
“Advance Australia fair!” 

Extra Verse for some...

With Christ our head and cornerstone,
We'll build our nation's might,
Whose way and truth and light alone,
Can guide our path aright,
Our lives a sacrifice of love,
Reflect our Master's care,
With faces turned to heaven above,
Advance Australia fair,
In joyful strains then let us sing:
Advance, Australia Fair!

I am Australian.

I come from the dream time
From the dusty red-soil plains
I am the ancient heart
The keeper of the flame
I stood upon the rocky shores
I watched the tall ships come
For forty thousand years I've been
The first Australian

I came upon the prison ship
Bowed down by iron chains
I bought the land, endure the lash
And waited for the rains
I'm a settler, I'm a farmer's wife
On a dry and barren run
A convict, then a free man
I became Australian

I'm the daughter of a digger
Who sought the mother lode
The girl became a woman
On the long and dusty road
I'm a child of the Depression
I saw the good times come
I'm a bushie, I'm a battler
I am Australian

We are one but we are many
And from all the lands on earth we come
We'll share a dream
And sing with one voice
"I am you are
We are Australian."

We could have a referendum on the National Anthem.
Let the people decide - which anthem they prefer.

Dear Canem Malum,

"Advance Australia Fair" has been sung by so many of us
with great gusto and emotion in the past. However,
with all due respect - I feel that this anthem in today's
Australia is not as inclusive as "I am Australian".

I have no interest in the anthem, or the words in it. It is quite ridiculous for a people to sit back, watching their country degenerate, and actually singing about it!

Trivial and as meaningless as changing one word in a song is, it is a serious matter that most Australians don't think that is NOT the job of one person to make the change. We are supposed to be a parliamentary democracy, but 2020 has certainly seen that idea knocked in the head. As one of our few real Aborigines says, it's not going to appease the professional Aborigines anyway.

"The National Anthem, like other national symbols of
a country, represents the tradition, history and
beliefs of a nation and its people. Hence, it helps evoke
feelings of patriotism among the country's citizens and
reminds them of their nation's glory, beauty and rich heritage".

Taken from the web.

That's why the suggestion that we could have a Referendum -
if needed on the subject, at the appropriate time, or
not.

The people and time will decide.

Hanrahan cautiously leaves his cave, throws curses at an evil and heartless world, then retreats back into safety.

If we were to adopt the Seekers' 'I am Australian', we would need to update it and put in a verse to welcome those many Australians who have come here to build and support the country over the past century. For example for everybody who has been in hospital in the past year, how much do you owe the Filipina or African or Indian nurse and her wonderful smile ? The wonderful doctors who have alleviated your pain ?

And who is doing so much of the slog-jobs out in the country and in factories ? They should be included in any new anthem. Frankly, I'm
not all that interested in thieves, I've got too many in my ancestry as it is (maybe Mad Dog Morgan is a relation, maybe Kelly, that would make sense).

So let's celebrate ALL Australians. There are no Grade One, Grade Two, etc. Australians, nobody with more or fewer rights than others: only Australians.

Joe

Dear Joe,

Perhaps all we really need is the last verse of -
"I am Australian" ?

Here's "ADVANCE AUSTRALIA FAIR" currently http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Australia_Fair#Lyrics .

It takes in "one" in the 2nd line

I think its improved if the Archaic/Germanic god-awful "girt" is removed from the 4th line - done. So here tis:

Australians all let us rejoice,
For we are one and free;
We've golden soil and wealth for toil;
Our home, SURROUNDED BY OUR sea;
Our land abounds in nature's gifts
Of beauty rich and rare;
In history's page, let every stage
Advance Australia Fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing,
Advance Australia Fair.

Beneath our radiant Southern Cross
We'll toil with hearts and hands;
To make this Commonwealth of ours
Renowned of all the lands;
For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share;
With courage let us all combine
To Advance Australia Fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing,
Advance Australia Fair."
__________________________

Whadayareckon fellow OLOsters?

What about God Save The Queen?

After all, The Queen is our Head of State.

Dear Pete,

Well done!

P.S.

I've had another think about "I Am Australian" and the special place it gives Aborigines

is overdone, out of proportion and would always be polarising.

It will also encourage calls to give Aborigines a special RACIAL ARISTOCRATIC "Voice"

under the Constitution.

Which will ultimately boil down to a Third Chamber/House of Parliament for Aboriginal Concerns

- which could apply Veto Power to ALL ISSUES considered by or passed by the House of Reps and Senate.

Hi Pete,

Perhaps if we could insert a clause about "Equal Rights for All" somewhere ? No special rights for anyone ? No UBER-MENSCH, no UNTER-MENSCH, on any pretext ?

Joe

God Save The Queen is the Royal Anthem.

Why don't we mix some of the words and melody of the Australian Anthem with the Royal Anthem? Should work.

We can get Gladys Liu MP, who is a former(?) affiliate of the Chinese Communist Party, to record it thus giving it a real touch of multiculturalism.

I reckon it's winner.

Hi Joe

Ever since Australians voted overwhelmingly in the 1967 Referendum which gave Aborigines Equal Rights under the Constitution this Did confer "Equal Rights for All". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Australian_referendum_(Aboriginals)

Even implicitly giving Aborigines a special place, involving a change in the Constitution, would be polarising.

And would it pass all the Parliamentary and Referendum tests? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_Australia#Constitutional_provisions including:

"To pass a referendum, the bill must ordinarily achieve a double majority: a majority of those voting nationwide, as well as separate majorities in a majority of states (i.e., 4 out of 6 states).[7] In circumstances where a state is affected by a referendum, a majority of voters in that state must also agree to the change. This is often referred to as a "triple majority"."

I know a bit about Queenslanders and WAers. They would likely reject.

Queenslanders and WAers would see the possible "as well as separate majorities in a majority of states (i.e., 4 out of 6 states)" rule as the other States and Fed Government ganging up on Queensland and WA.

What a great outcome for Commonwealth unity and peace
- putting on a symbolic Constitutional change...Politically giving Special Place to a designated and particular RACE.

Now this conversation is getting interesting.
Thank you guys!

Dear plantagenet,

I'm not getting it.

The population of Tasmania is around 500,000 while the indigenous population of Australia is around 800,000.

Tasmania has 12 of the 76 Senators making decisions about this country. Some like Brian Harridine have had enormous influence.

Tasmanians therefore wield far more influence than any proposed Voice to parliament.

Why isn't this of deep concern to you? Why isn't it polarising Australians as you feel the voice will?

Given we are still very much struggling to resolve the sins of the past and tackle deep disadvantage within indigenous communities why on earth wouldn't a mechanism prescribed by our indigenous brothers and sisters be given a chance?

Does the definition of competence never come to your minds ? There are people in EVERY Race who could never pull their weight yet, many of you insist that Race is the important criteria !
I've observed white people being in charge of indigenous communities & I know many indigenous who have been given positions in the Public Service.
One lot is put there to keep useless bureaucrats employed & the other are there to fill idealist quota ! Both groups are costing us a dearly in every which way ! The Peters Principle being the clearest example !
The one question I'd like to get an answer to here is;
What is the stumbling block for not making competence & suitability the main criteria ?
I have worked under competent non-whites who were much more suitable than the countless Labor plants who did nothing but set us back one after another. The opportunists among those who identify as indigenous thrive because of this appalling system ! And, of course, much needed resources are again & again squandered into the pockets of bureaucrats of every race represented/involved in that enterprise that is the Guilt industry !

.

First, allow me to say that I’m pleased to see that Foxy is back on board and hope that this signals a welcome improvement in her husband’s back problem.

I find it interesting to see that Scomo and his government have taken to songwriting and that their artistic production is to the taste of the governor general. I suppose they performed it before him during the New Year celebrations, singing along in choir and tapping their feet. A very merry occasion indeed – a little champagne, perhaps ?

Mind you, we Aussies are not of the first freshness. We’re not so “young” anymore. The population has aged as a result of sustained low fertility and increased life expectancy. Our median age has increased by 2 years from 35 to 37 over the last two decades :

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/1CD2B1952AFC5E7ACA257298000F2E76?OpenDocument#:~:text=3101.0%20%2D%20Australian%20Demographic%20Statistics%2C%20Jun%202019&text=The%20median%20age%20(the%20age,years%20at%2030%20June%202019

So bye, bye “young” and hello “one” !

I still have a problem with the word “Fair”. The OED indicates no less than 38 different meanings and uses of the word ( http://www.lexico.com/en/definition/fair ).

Most commentators here seem to think it means “just”, “equitable” or “morally right”. Canem Malum considers it means “beautiful”.

The author of the anthem wrote : “Advance Australia Fair”. He did not write : “Advance Australians Fair”. No doubt he wanted the people to advance, not the continent. But who or what is “Fair” : the people or the continent ? Who or what is “just” or “beautiful” – the people or the continent ?

If “Fair” means “just”, it’s the people. If it means “beautiful”, it's more likely the continent.

The word “Fair” is too ambiguous for my liking. For me, it conjures up another OED definition :

« (of a person) having a light complexion or blond hair : ‘he's very fair with blue eyes’ »

That definition rules out a whole lot of fair dinkum Aussies.

For Scomo, we’re no longer “young”. It’s a pity he didn’t notice that all of us have never been “Fair” and don’t necessarily want to “Advance” in the same direction as those who are.

Vive “Waltzing Matilda” !

.

Rolf Harris, a loyal Australian and lover of children wants to add his contribution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D-LmRNdQiQ&ab_channel=mrtibbs6912

Not one for anthems and flag waving myself.

Paul1405,

I hear Rolf likes girls too. The more the merrier I hear.

And you guessed it: He's favourite gal is good old Queenie.

So how about we get Rolf to do a cover of a God Save The Queen - Tie Me Kangaroo Down mix and we make that the new national anthem.

You can't get any more Aussie than that, unless off course you just flew in from Shanghai on a Soot Morrison sponsored Buy Up All You Want Visa.

BP,

I must say that I like your 'songwriting' quip, but AdMan's dictatorial tendencies are no laughing matter. His avuncular manner has so far fooled the proles, but his act is wearing thin. If Albo wasn't such a goose, our PM's own goose would be well and truly cooked at the next election.

ttbn,

I think Labor should have left Shorten in the position.

It wasn't Shorten's fault Labor lost the 2019 election.

I bet Soot was happy when they made Albanese leader.

But Labor had enough sense to keep Shorten at close range as a stand-in for Albanese if Albanese looks like being a loser come the next election.

Mr. Opinion,

I think Shortarse will make a comeback, particularly now that Albo has knocked off the franking credit policy for him. No loss of face. The yarn about the election being a poll on climate change won't run in 2022 because AdMan is trying to beat Labor up the Paris ladder.

Although I am disappointed that conservatism is dead in Australia, it means that I no longer vote for any of the riffraff. I might not get a say, but I have a clear conscience.

ttbn,

I would like to see Gladys Liu MP (Lib), who is a former(?) affiliate of the Chinese Communist Party, promoted to Leader of the Liberal Party and made Prime Minister.

I think she will have a great chance of mending the China-Australia partnership and I have a feeling that she is really impressed with Mr Opinion's 10 point plan for placating the Chinese-Chinese (that's multicultural lingo) especially where all the MPs have to get down naked on their hands and knees and kowtow to Emperor Xi.

.

In case you missed it, this is what The Sydney Morning Herald has to say :
.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/scott-morrison-s-one-word-gesture-won-t-unify-australia-but-a-bigger-conversation-might-20210101-p56r6e.html

.

Banjo Paterson,

This is an excellent comment by the article's author.

Although I would have used 'matrilineal lineage' instead of the author's use of 'matriarchal lineage'.

But otherwise spot on.

I think Soot Morrison is really only concerned about on thing: his career after politics. I think he has his eyes on a multimillion dollar position with a large corporation when he leaves office.

In the interim he has to mend his image that suffered so badly during the 2019 bushfire catastrophe.

And I think the anthem bit is part of his attempt to create a better image of himself.

Even at the further expense of the Australian Aboriginal peoples.

Maybe we should make this Australia's national anthem... to appeal to Foxy's sensibilities... and to principles of diversity.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d1/Lithuanian_national_anthem_sheet_music.jpg/220px-Lithuanian_national_anthem_sheet_music.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tauti%C5%A1ka_giesm%C4%97

Lithuania, our dear homeland,
Land of worthy heroes!
May your sons draw strength
From your past experiences.

May your children always
Choose the paths of virtue,
May they work towards your good,
And that of all people.

May the sun in Lithuania
Disperse darkness,
And light, and truth,
May guide our steps.

May love of Lithuania
Burn in our hearts,
In the name of Lithuania,
Unity may blossom!

Lietuva, Tevyne musu,
Tu didvyriu zeme,
Is praeities Tavo sunus
Te stiprybe semia.

Tegul Tavo vaikai eina
Vien takais dorybes,
Tegul dirba Tavo naudai
Ir zmoniu gerybei.

Tegul saule Lietuvoj
Tamsumas prasalina,
Ir sviesa, ir tiesa
Mus zingsnius telydi.

Tegul meile Lietuvos
Dega musu sirdyse,
Vardan tos, Lietuvos
Vienybe tezydi!

Seriously I would like to see Lithuania returned to it's descendants.

If the population of the world was reduced it wouldn't be a problem for people who wanted to.. to live with their own kind in their own land.

I can empathize with the Lithuanian people that had their land taken from them. But that is a greater risk historically in a nation with land borders.

Hi SteeleRedux

A. 12 Senators per State made Federation acceptable for the less populated States (eg. SA, Tas, WA and Qld). They would not/did not accept a one house population-proportional Parliament which would have meant domination by the most populated States (NSW and Vic).

B. Placing a number on "indigenous Australians" is yet another Can Of Worms.

The "acceptance by a tribe (usually based on unrecorded word of mouth)" test is too easily gamed by people who are 7/8s or 15/16s White and even No Indigenous Blood at All.

C. Would "indigenous Australians" prefer a more legally acceptable/checkable DNA Baseline Test which would probably legally/demographically de-indigenise more than half of them?

D. Like BREXIT, the UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES of "Statement of the Heart/Voice" Constitutional changes would pit:

- Australian against Australian

- White Australians against "indigenous Australians"

- State against State

- Politicians/Parties against Politicians/Parties within all 3 levels (Local, State and Federal) of Government

- States against the centre-left ACT

AND

- 2 or 3 States against the Federal Government.

CM,

You really are skirting close to fascism:

" If the population of the world was reduced it wouldn't be a problem for people who wanted to.. to live with their own kind in their own land."

There are many thousands of 'own kind', if you mean languages, 'cultures', ethnicities around the world. Here in Australia (I don't know where you might be), there is the current absurdity of designating Indigenous clan-groups as 'nations', around three hundred of them, each of a couple of thousand maximum - probably far, far fewer members', if we count only those people who give a toss, i.e. who seek to make careers out of it.

Many of them are beavering away trying to design their own Flags, in passionate opposition to the national Aboriginal Flag, or any implied association with any other group. Many Aboriginal groups have a deep desire not to be like any other Aboriginal group in any way, (even though, of course, they may be inter-married) so I suspect that your aspiration of extreme social fragmentation might work with some of them, to destroy any potential unity or cooperation between groups.

But once you have achieved your goal of 'reducing population', what then ? Designate areas in each country which henceforth 'belong' to this group or that ? A bit like partitioning India and Pakistan ? So how many people died in that idiotic venture ? One, two million ? And you would be quite at ease with the idea that every country broke up like that ? That really is so off the planet.

Currently, for example in the Central African Republic, there are nine or ten separate (probaby ethnically- or linguistically-based) rebel groups marching on the capitol, opposed by probably as many other ethnic/language/'cultural' groups who are currently in power. Sixty years of independent has changed little, so perhaps what we will see shortly in the CAR is a taste of your separatist Utopia.

Joe

Plantagenet said- "D. Like BREXIT, the UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES of "Statement of the Heart/Voice" Constitutional changes would pit:

- Australian against Australian

- White Australians against "indigenous Australians"
"

Answer-

Ending the so called White Australia policy already pits "Australian against Australian" but that was the aim of certain special interests of the time- this is standard Machiavellianism- "The Prince"- divide and conquer tactics- designed to reverse the Eureka Chartist Labour gains and followed by Howard union bashing tactics- (sometimes they deserved a bit of bashing)- but it's coming back to bite their descendants- potentially wiping their line from the face of the earth.

It's a healthy reminder that- there are some things you can do- but shouldn't.

Those that seem to be most loudly proclaiming cohesion are the ones that caused the division in the first place by using the divisive tactics against the labour force by sponsoring immigration.

"I'm a business person- I just want Australia to work together"

When will Australian's wake up and look after their own enlightened self interest- and more importantly to think for themselves.

Thanks Joe

Your Sunday, 3 January 2021 11:28:39 AM comment usefully introduces 3 additional destructive Cans of Worms

That is, in developing an Indigenous RACIALLY MOTIVATED Constitutional "VOICE", this would also pit:

1. Aboriginal group/"Nation" against Aboriginal group/"Nation"

2. Aboriginal versus Torres Strait Islander "Nations"

and in so doing lead to

3. An inter-INDIGENOUS struggle for the largest tribal representation in what would effectively be an INDIGENOUS House of Parliament.

Dear Plantagenet,

Mate you are going to have to give realistic examples of why and how you think the "Statement of the Heart/Voice" Constitutional changes would pit:

- Australian against Australian
- White Australians against "indigenous Australians"
- State against State
- Politicians/Parties against Politicians/Parties within all 3 levels (Local, State and Federal) of Government
- States against the centre-left ACT
AND
- 2 or 3 States against the Federal Government?

Because right now these read as patently ridiculous.

Mr. Opinion,

Do you think that the "anthem bit" has created a better image of AdMan? I don't. The man gets more obnoxious daily, and he won't impress the professional aboriginal activists, who are hardly likely to get excited by the change of one word in a horrible song that few know the words of anyway. It may as well be sung in whatever Aboriginal language it was sung in at a sporting event recently, and all the bedwetters gushed about it.

Anthems are meant for the likes of Americans and other highly emotional people, and drunks.

SteeleRedux

I've provided argument and links.

You've provided nothing.

BP,

The SMH article highlights the brainwashing of children and the irreconcilable differences and hatreds between black/pretend black and white. It is about the crap attitudes of a nasty minority who would still be living in the Stone Age if it was not for Great Britain. Or, worse, the continent could have been settled by more unenlightened Europeans with more brutal solutions than the immensely costly, totally unappreciated ones Australian governments have had thrown back in their faces for almost 250 years.

When I read such garbage, I wish that the British settlers had sailed on by. The original inhabitants would still have been had deal with who ever else came along, but we wouldn't have had to put up with them.

Dear Canem Malum,

Thank You for taking the time and effort to
reproduce the English translation of the Lithuanian
National Anthem here on the forum

It put a lump in my throat. I was greatly moved.

Lithuania has now regained its Independence. Hopefully
forever. But you're right - Putin is still keeping a
watchful eye on the Baltic Nations. Which is scary.

I am proud of my ancestry - as we all should be.
Here's a poem that I think you might enjoy:

"I come from a tribe of nature worshippers, pantheists,
believers in fairies, forest sprites, and wood nymphs.
Who heard devils in their windmills. Dapper gentlemen of
the night who named the god of thunder, who praised and
glorified bread, dark rye waving waist-high out of the
earth and held it sacred, wasting not a crumb. Who
spent afternoons mushrooming in forests of pine, fir, and
birch, who transferred Jesus from his wooden cross,
transformed him into a wood-carved, worrying peasant, raised
him on a wooden pole above the crossroads where he sat with
infinite patience in rain and snow, wooden legs apart, wooden
elbows on wooden knees, wooden chin on wooden knees, wooden
chin in wooden hand, worrying and sorrowing for the world...

These people who named their sons and daughters after amber,
rue, fir tree, dawn, storm. And the only people I know who
have a diminutive form for God Himself ... "Dievulis"
"God my little buddy".

Any wonder I catch myself speaking to trees, flowers, bushes,
these eucalyptus so far from Eastern Europe or that I bend
down to the earth, gather pebbles, acorns, leaves, boles,
bring them home, enshrine them on mantelpieces or above
porcelain fixtures in corners, any wonder I grow nervous in
rooms and must step outside and touch a tree or sink my
toes in the dirt, or watch the birds fly by".

Al Zolynas an American LIthuanian, wrote the poem. We're
kindred spirits as my ancestry is from the same tribe.

Dear Plantagenet,

You provided a couple of Wikipedia links with dubious relevance. The arguments you have supposedly supplied are really little more than unsubstantiated claims. For them to form the basis of any decent argument they would need substantial strengthening which I was giving you the opportunity to do so but it seems you are loathed to take.

Perhaps we can try a different tack.

Can you please tell me for all its problems how ATSIC pit:

Australian against Australian
- White Australians against "indigenous Australians"
- State against State
- Politicians/Parties against Politicians/Parties within all 3 levels (Local, State and Federal) of Government
- States against the centre-left ACT
AND
- 2 or 3 States against the Federal Government?

Essential the Voice calls for a representative body to be placed within the Constitution to ensure that unlike Atsic it couldn't be disbanded by a conniving pair like Howard and Latham. If the world didn't fall down around our ears during ATSIC's time why would it suddenly do so now?

Good poem Foxy.

So you didn't understand the Lithuanian text? I had to work hard on that...

I enjoy 'The Skeleton In The Armour'. The inspiration not far from Lithuania. I'm sure you've heard of it before.

The Skeleton in Armour.

Speak! speak! thou fearful guest!
Who, with thy hollow breast
Still in rude armour drest,
;Comest to daunt me!
Wrapt not in Eastern balms,
But with thy fleshless palms
Stretched, as if asking alms,
;Why dost thou haunt me?

Then from those cavernous eyes
Pale flashes seemed to rise,
As when the Northern skies
;Gleam in December;
And, like the water's flow
Under December's snow,
Came a dull voice of woe
From the heart's chamber.

I was a Viking old!
My deeds, though manifold,
No Skald in song has told,
No Saga taught thee!
Take heed that in thy verse
Thou dost the tale rehearse,
Else dread a dead man's curse
For this I sought thee.

Far in the Northern Land,
By the wild Baltic's strand,
I, with my childish hand,
Tamed the gerfalcon;
And, with my skates fast-bound,
Skimmed the half-frozen Sound
That the poor whimpering hound
Trembled to walk on.

Oft to his frozen lair
Tracked I the grizzly bear.
While from my path the hare
Fled like a shadow;
Oft through the forest dark
Followed the were-wolf 's bark,
Until the soaring lark
Sang from the meadow.

But when I older grew,
Joining a corsair's crew,
O'er the dark sea I flew
With the marauders.
Wild was the life we led;
Many the souls that sped,
Many the hearts that bled,
By our stern orders.

Many a wassail-bout
Wore the long Winter out;
Often our midnight shout
Set the cocks crowing,
As we the Berserk's tale
Measured in cups of ale,
Draining the oaken pail
Filled to o'erflowing.

Once as I told in glee
Tales of the stormy sea,
Soft eyes did gaze on me,
Burning yet tender;
And as the white stars shine
On the dark Norway pine,
On that dark heart of mine
Fell their soft splendour.

We have so far only heard from the Australian-Australian and Aboriginal-Australian perspectives.

Can we hear from the Chinese-Australian, Eskimo-Australian and Nuer- and Zulu-African-Australian perspectives?

Otherwise we won't be able to have a truly inclusive discussion on one of the greatest things to happen in Australia since electricity.

Your rhetorical style is enjoyable Mr Opinion.

SR

Explain why

"Essentially the Voice calls for a representative body to be placed within the Constitution"

would NOT embugger the Parliamentary Government system that Already Represents

Indigenous Australians, along with everyone else?
_______________________________________

Dear MOpy

Spot on comedy, as always :)

All self-appointed Austral-Beings should have their own representative bodies

(maybe 200 or 300, more?) under the Constitution

under VOICE "logic".

You'll may like these Banjo Paterson

Some weird guys walking down the road... in funny hats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWqmQlSScI0

This one is from this weird old guy... I'm sure no one knows him ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqtttbbYfSM

Those bloody American's are always stealing our girls... but these guys can't even hold a note... let alone dance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YDpikjopjQ

Dear Canem Malum,

I enjoy poems that have emotional strength, poems that
are highly imaginative and communicative, poems that
shock the reader into thinking about issues. Your
chosen poem by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow of an
ancient Viking does all that. Melodic in nature, vivid
in imagery, archaic words, all help to develop a world
of fantasy in the reader's mind.

Barrie Pittock tells us that Lord Byron in 1816, during
an "unseasonally cold summer in Europe turned to imagining
how civilised human beings would react in situations of
extreme adversity, and his poetic imagination led him to
write the poem which he called, "Darkness". According to
Pittock, today the poem provides us, "with the most graphic
and moving description of what it would be like to
experience a nuclear winter."

" ... I had a dream, which was not all a dream. The bright
sun was extinguish'd and the stars did wander darkling in
the eternal space. Rayless, and pathless, and the icy
earth swung blind and blackening in the moonless air:
Moon came and went - and came, and brought no day. And
men forgot their passions in the dread of this their desolation..."

Although this is only a small part of Byron's poem, it gives
us a very vivid picture of what a nuclear winter could be
like.

If we have no faith in our power to change the world we will
fail to prevent the dreadful vision of nuclear winter from
becoming a reality.

Dear Plantagenat,

Sure, I can even give an example. ATSIC never buggered up our parliamentary democracy so there is absolutely no reason to think the Voice would either.

That was easy. Now your turn.

And this old bastard... don't know who he thinks he is ... ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHUcRTvdcbM

SR,

So ..... another ATSIC instead ?

I do recall similar bodies going back to 1973 - the NACC, the NAC, the ADC. I remember the ADC giving out loans, mostly to its own directors, all of which seemed to turn bad. Frankly, all useless organisations.

So why bother doing all that again ? Just for the benefit of the same old elite-family crowds, or at least for their elite kids and grandkids ?

I remember, back in 1973, someone (I think from Darwin, maybe from the NAWU) suggesting that what was needed first were local organisations, handling local issues; then regional/state/territory bodies, and THEN a national body. But nobody twigged then and nobody is twigging yet, in the scramble for the trough.

Joe

SR,

So ..... another ATSIC instead ?

I do recall similar bodies going back to 1973 - the NACC, the NAC, the ADC. Frankly, all useless.

So why bother doing all that again ? Just for the benefit of the same old elite-family crowd ?

I remember, back in 1973, someone (I think from Darwin) suggesting that what was needed first were local organisations, handling local issues; then regional/state/territory bodies, and THEN a national body. But nobody twigged then and nobody is twigging yet, in the scramble for the trough.

Joe

Byron is such a Byronic figure ;)

Thou art more beautiful than a summers day....

I'll check out "Darkness"... should be interesting... thanks for the recommendation Foxy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkness_(poem)

Generally I'm not sure what I think about Byron as a person but he was certainly prolific and influenced some great writers- he did some great work- I liked his evening with Percy and Mary Shelley and the doctor that wrote The Vampyre- just shows what great minds can do in a short space of time.

Sorry that was meant to be "She walks in beauty like the night..."

Dear Canem Malum,

Here's another poem that's worth checking out:

"The pen is mightier than the sword
but only when
it sows the seeds of thought
in minds of men
to kindle love and grow
through the burnt page
destroyed by huns and vandals in their rage..."
"The pen is mightier than the sword" is worth
a read.

Kevin Gilbert's poem to me came as somewhat of a surprise.
I had expected from him poetry that would reflect the
Aboriginal people, something compassionate, dignified, simple
and peaceful. My own stereotyping I admit. I learned that
this poem was written by a poet, who "happened" to be
Aboriginal. In the poem Gilbert shows not only his poetic intensity, but also
that he has an ear for different rhythms and registers of
language.

Hiya SR

In addition to Joe's fine contribution, I add:

Have you heard of the other organisations Already representing those Australians who label themselves "indigenous" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_for_Indigenous_Australians eg.

1. Minister for Indigenous Australians, Ken Wyatt? He administers the portfolio through the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and

2. And the wide range of agencies Already representing those Australians who label themselves "indigenous", including the:

Office of Indigenous Policy Coordination (OIPC)

Indigenous Coordination Centres

Office of the Registrar of Indigenous Corporations (ORIC)

Torres Strait Regional Authority (TSRA)

Indigenous Land Corporation (ILC)

Office of the Aboriginal Land Commissioner

Anindilyakawa Land Council

Central Land Council

Northern Land Council

Tiwi Land Council

3. And you moan about ATSIC being disbanded? Checkout:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_and_Torres_Strait_Islander_Commission#Corruption_investigations

and

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-22/former-atsic-boss-geoff-clark-and-family-faces-new-fraud-charges/10737648

4. And now you want an ATSIC like body, above Parliament, permanently enshrined under the Constitution!

Dear loudmouth2,

Firstly I invited Plantagenet to illustrate how ATSIC had buggered up our democracy, it wasn't an appraisal of the body itself so why have you diverted off in this fashion?

But I will say there has been plenty of corrupt behaviour from our State and Federal politicians but we never seem to call for the dismantling of them do we.

Under ATSIC at a regional level there were well functioning bodies doing really good work yet many got shuttered when Howard and Latham went after them.

Dear Plantagenet,

Minister of Ingigenous Affairs? The position held by whoever gets the nod from the PM. They are not elected to he role.

“And the wide range of agencies Already representing those Australians who label themselves "indigenous", including the:”

Office of Indigenous Policy Coordination (OIPC) (Disbanded August 2011)

Indigenous Coordination Centres – Housing staff from the various departments providing services to Indigenous communities. How is this a Voice?

Office of the Registrar of Indigenous Corporations (ORIC) – Purely a compliance organisation. How is this a Voice?

Torres Strait Regional Authority (TSRA) – Just that, regional. How is this a Voice for indigenous people nation wide?

Indigenous Land Corporation (ILC) – Actually known as the Indigenous Land and Sea Corporation (ILSC) set up to “assist Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to acquire land and to manage assets to achieve cultural, social, environmental and economic benefits for indigenous peoples and future generations”. How is this a Voice?

Office of the Aboriginal Land Commissioner purely administers the Aboriginal Land Rights (Northern Territory) Act 1976 and is run by a retired Federal Court Judge. How is this a Voice?

The Land Councils administer and manage cultural matters within local areas. How is this a Voice?

Why are you avoiding my main question though. How did ATSIC bugger up our democracy?

'The pen is mightier than the sword'
Yeah well, but it's not as hard as a 4x2 !

Dear Individual,

And your point is?

Foxy,

You definitely are just so naive.

Isn't it obvious: Some men have blow rubber dolls; individual has a piece of timber.

Dear Mr O,

It was the Irish playwright John Millington Synge
who said:

"It is the timber of poetry
that wears most surely ..."

SR

Your quest for an ATSIC 2.0/"Voice" - this time on steroids - above Parliament under the Constitution - is FUTILE.

No way will it pass the necessary Referundum, even if an Albanese-Shorten-Albanese Labor Gov't gained power 2022-25.

Too many Australians recall ATSIC's record...and that "Voice" would amount to Veto power over the will of Australia's more inclusive/democratic House of Reps and Senate.

End Of.

Hi Foxy

I'm glad you're back. You are a very fair, rare, centrist, not to mention female commenter on OLO.

Glad you liked the de-Girted "Advance Australia Fair" version.

Cheers

Pete

Dear plantagenet,

Still no answer.

Again. How did ATSIC "embugger the Parliamentary Government system"?

plantagenet,
Where did you get the absurd notion that Steele (or anyone at all) wants the Voice to be above parliament?

.

Dear ttbn,

.

You wrote :

« The SMH article highlights the brainwashing of children and the irreconcilable differences and hatreds between black/pretend black and white. It is about the crap attitudes of a nasty minority who would still be living in the Stone Age if it was not for Great Britain. Or, worse, the continent could have been settled by more unenlightened Europeans with more brutal solutions than the immensely costly, totally unappreciated ones Australian governments have had thrown back in their faces for almost 250 years.

When I read such garbage, I wish that the British settlers had sailed on by. The original inhabitants would still have been had deal with who ever else came along, but we wouldn't have had to put up with them. »
.

If you don’t mind my saying so, ttbn, when I read that post, the thought that ran through my mind was something Nelson Mandela is quoted as having said after having spent 27 years unjustly in prison in South Africa, including 18 years in the notorious Robben Island prison :

« As I walked out the door toward the gate that would lead to my freedom, I knew if I didn’t leave my bitterness and hatred behind, I’d still be in prison »

He adds in the final paragraphs of his lengthy autobiography “Long Walk to Freedom” (p. 751) :

« It was during those long and lonely years that my hunger for the freedom of my own people became a hunger for the freedom of all people, white and black. A man who takes away another man’s freedom is a prisoner of hatred. He is locked behind the bars of prejudice and narrow-mindedness … The oppressed and the oppressor alike are robbed of their humanity.

« When I walked out of prison, that was my mission, to liberate the oppressed and the oppressor both. »

This is Ubuntu philosophy : “I am because we are”, or “to be human is to affirm one´s humanity by recognizing the humanity of others and establishing respectful human relations with them”.

.

Hi BP,

A very nice response to one of the Forums true haters! Nelson Mandela, what a remarkable human being, Mandela is up there with Gandhi and Dr Martin Luther King Jr, as the leaders of the peaceful struggle against hate and oppression in the world they were above all humble and understanding.

As Buddha said 2,500 years ago; "Hate is the hardest emotion to overcome."

Dear Pete,

Thank you for your kind words.

Humans are the most extraordinary creatures.
The spirit of the human being can fill me with
more joy than anything in the world. I've met some
amazing souls on my life's journey - and on this forum,
for which I am very grateful.

BP,

Thanks for reproducing two of my paragraphs:). I meant every word. I'm pretty sure that most people of Aboriginal descent - and there are very few genuine ones - are content to lead their lives without 'help' from Communistic rabble rousers who really don't care about them anymore than the BLM crowd cares about black people and their lives.

I think that you are doing Nelson Mandela a great disservice by trying to link him with Australian Aboriginal malcontents and riff raff. Mandela was a man to be admired. There has never been anyone like him in Australia, nor has anyone ever been treated the way he was. Attempts to link the Australian Aboriginal experience with overseas activists and causes is absolute nonsense.

The conscience of Australians has been awakened to the
fact that Aborigines want to and will make decisions for
themselves. Schemes that were run until relatively
recently by "whites" who adopted a paternal attitude to
Aborigines, treating them like children and considering
that only they knew what was best for Aborigines did not
get good results. In frustration, many Aborigines took
to drastic action.

The same happened in the US - where black people took to
action to try to get their people a "fair go".

That is nothing new. And things are achieved. Things like
legal and land rights, education, and health care.

Progress is being made in the Aborigines fight for the chance
to survive in today's Australia and although much more needs
to be done, perhaps the outlook is more hopeful now than it
has been in the past in the times of Senator Bonner.

.

Thanks for those video songs Canem Malum. I enjoyed them.

I must say that if ever I had to face an enemy firing squad, I can’t imagine myself singing "Advance Australia Fair" in defiance. I’m pretty sure “Waltzing Matilda” would surge up from my bowels instinctively.

.

.

Dear ttbn,

.

You wrote :

« I think that you are doing Nelson Mandela a great disservice by trying to link him with Australian Aboriginal malcontents and riff raff. Mandela was a man to be admired. There has never been anyone like him in Australia, nor has anyone ever been treated the way he was. Attempts to link the Australian Aboriginal experience with overseas activists and causes is absolute nonsense. »
.

Don’t look now, ttbn, but I think you’ll find that, if anything, there are at least as many – if not more – “riff-raff” among Aussies of Caucasian origin as there are among those who identify today as “Aboriginal”.

But please don't hesitate to correct me if I’m wrong.

.

.

Dear ttbn,

.

I forgot to mention that as at 30 June 2020, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander prisoners made up only 29% of all prisoners in Australia.

Sorry about that.

http://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/prisoners-australia/latest-release#:~:text=The%20Aboriginal%20and%20Torres%20Strait,up%2029%25%20of%20all%20prisoners.

.

Here's one of Soot Morrison's:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/asio-red-flags-liberal-party-donor-huifeng-haha-liu-over-foreign-interference-risks/ar-BB1cqO3L

Why is he an Australian-based businessman when he is doing something wrong but a Chinese-Australian at other times?

He looks like he's just a typical Aussie larrikin to me.

'The pen is mightier than the sword'
Yeah well, but it's not as hard as a 4x2 !
Mr Opinion,
But a 4x2 is not as thick as Mr Opinion !

individual,

What's up, you don't like me poking fun at your Aussie larrikin mates?

BP,

The riff raff referred to are activists, not those people in general who claim some Aborignal lineage. Neither were they people locked up for crimes. But, as you chose to get right of the track and advise that Aborigines make up ONLY 29% of the prison population, I’m wondering, if that figure is correct, why the activists make so much fuss about it. Then, of course, there is another statistic that people with some Aboriginal background make only 4% of the Australian population. That means 4% of the population makes up 29% of the prison population. Glad you think thats good news!

But, I repeat: I have no beef with people who identify as Aboriginal. My beef is with the very few of them who are shite-stirring activists, and with the shite-stirring whites who are egging them on. Like the BLM thugs, they are using innocent people who would probably like to left alone to get on with lives that are not much different from everyone else’s in Australia.

ttbn, if your so informed, why not name names.

ttbn, if your so informed, why not name names.
Paul1405,
Would you qualify as a rough guess ?

.

Dear ttbn,

.

You wrote :

« The riff raff referred to are activists, not those people in general who claim some Aboriginal lineage »
.

Thanks for the clarification, ttbn, but I’m more than a little surprised you consider activists “riffraff”, i.e., “disreputable or undesirable people” (OED).

Democracies such as we have in Australia do not outlaw activism, whether political or otherwise. Activism is an important part of the democratic process. Individuals and communities have the power to shape government policy and society by campaigning for change. As long as the activism is peaceful and respectful, not only is it legal but perfectly acceptable.

Quite frankly, ttbn, I can’t imagine that you would prefer a totalitarian regime as in Communist China, for example, where the slightest criticism is severely repressed. In China, even you would be branded a dangerous activist for your constant criticism of the country’ political leader as you criticise Scomo in Australia.

Also, so far as I can judge from your posts on this Forum, you appear to be more of a conservative than a progressist. The Aboriginal activists are too. If they could roll back colonisation I'm sure they would. Unlike the large majority who have assimilated our scientifically advanced civilisation, they can hardly be considered “progressist”.

I note with interest that you approve the majority progressists and condemn the minority conservatives.

Strictly speaking, neither one nor the other qualifies as “riffraff”. If anyone does, I’m afraid it is those poor 60,000 British convicts who were deported from their beloved homeland to the penal colony of New South Wales. They alone truly qualified as ““disreputable or undesirable people” – at least in the eyes of the British government and its justice.

But not in ours, ttbn. They were our venerable and admirably courageous forefathers.

.

.

Oops ! I meant to write 160,000 British convicts – not 60,000 !

Sorry about that.

.

I'm not an expert on anthropology but I find it interesting...

The map is interesting it shows the Huns (Chinese) invading Europe displacing the Germanic Tribes prior to the Slavs (Euro-Stepes) occupying central Europe from north of the Black Sea creating Moravia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Invasions_of_the_Roman_Empire_1.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_Period

Yamnaya culture seems to be the proto-Slavic culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya_culture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Steppe_Herders

These sites give some explanation why people of certain parts of the world have certain phenotypes. British people having recessive phenotypes seem to be related to Germanic people genetically- perhaps this is why Germanic peoples have on occasion aggressively defended their territory.

Lithuanian people appear mainly fair and blue eyed. Slavic people appear to have come from the Steppes and probably have a greater Asian genetic heritage- the Steppes stretch from Mongolia to Europe and Mongolia contains the great horse plains- sounds like a somewhat mobile people in prehistoric times.

Of course peoples of similar phenotypes have gone to war in history.
Britain went to war against Germany in WWI and WWII both being Germanic phenotypically perhaps.

There have been pan-Slavic (mainly Russian) and pan-Germanic movements. As well as pan-Islamic, etc in more contemporary times. Often interesting- code for disruption and often suffering- events have occurred on the borders of these phenotypical zones.

Some of what occurred in The Great Game, The Migrations in Europe, The Roman's, The Pogram's, etc can be seen in the context of a struggle between the Slavic and Germanic (Nordic, British, Dutch) phenotypes and cultures. Interesting the Irish talking of so called Black Irish as being related to the African Slave Trade or the Spanish Invasion.

Sometimes I see this cultural positioning through the lense of phenotypicality- though it isn't the only lense. This cultural positioning seems to be occurring through the vehicle of the Australian National Anthem- of course it would be.

I'm sure that much of what I see is misinterpreted but even in misunderstanding there is often much truth.

ttbn,

You made the statement "My beef is with the very few of them who are shite-stirring activists" I invited you to name names. Its easy to ride on the coat tails of the extreme and make such statements, but when you are asked to put up or shut up, you shut up. Let me help you out, how about Marcia Langton, been around for years and been one of those nasty activists you claim exist. No? well how about Ken Wyatt, in parliament making laws, very active, too conservative, how about Labor's Linda Burney, not with your brand of politics by very active over many years. Well there are lots more I could name, but I'll leave it to you to back up your claim.

How about Pauline Hanson? She's made a handsome living over the years by kicking the Aboriginal can from time to time. Do you class her as a "shite-stirring activists" for your side?

Indy, no need to act the man servant for ttbn.

Canem Malum, was that a pitch for the Aryan race, not sure what the significance of it was.

BTW, what happened to our dear friend runner? Did he do us a favour and run off a cliff or some such thing, hasn't been around for a couple of months, not since Donald got the bug. I do miss his run-by rubbish.

I have a question I need an answer to:

Why do we have so many stupid people in politics?

Paul1405,
You've asked for names so, I put yours on the list ! You make yourself fit the bill at almost every post !

individual,

You're stupid. How would you like to be Prime Minister?

I'm not saying you could do any better than Soot Morrison but you definitely couldn't do any F'n worse!

The pay's good and they tell me the Chinese are big tippers.

Paul said- "Canem Malum, was that a pitch for the Aryan race, not sure what the significance of it was."

Answer- Was that you justifying the invasion of Europe by the ancient Chinese- the proto-proto-Communists. And expressing your disgust of Aryan (Paul1405's words) Germanic diaspora attributes.

More seriously and to repeat myself-
1. I was referring to Cultural Positioning through the lense of phenotypicality (physical expression of genetic attributes)
2. Many genetic attributes of Britain specifically and Germanic cultures more generally are recessive and will be destroyed in a multicultural world. British people often have red hair and blue eyes it seems to be related but not specific to what I understand of "classical Aryan" (not really sure what this means in a broad sense) or Germanic attributes of blond hair and blue eyes.

Perhaps that is the aim of those with prejudice against so called Aryan attributes.

People do attach meaning to appearance and can be a source of identity and relationship between the generations- though certain ideological movements have tried to strip this meaning away through for example (Communist) "cultural hedgemony" or dominance over cultural perception.

The light hair and blue eyes of the Germanic diaspora seem to be related to our long term occupation of northern regions of The Earth. Over about five thousand years "darker coloured" peoples with greater melanine in their skin seem to have pushed Germanic peoples to the west of Europe.

I was surprised to learn that many Roman Emperors were depicted as having typical Germanic attributes- Germanic attributes being quite the fashion of the time- the Rhine conflicts are interesting in this context- and sort of provides some insight into the difference between northern and southern Italy.

On the other hand the Chinese eye fold as I understand seems to be an adaption to the cold.

Aside- Also interesting is the so called "Kurgen Hypothesis".

Mr Opinion said "Why do we have so many stupid people in politics?"

Answer- It's probably a risk vs reward vs stability thing.

I just found this news item re a social media threat made against Soot and Josh:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/man-charged-after-allegedly-threatening-pm-treasurer-on-social-media/ar-BB1cFCqh?li=AAgfYrC

It's not clear what the guy was intending.

Looks as if he might have been going to hit them over the head with a giant joint. Lit or unlit? it doesn't say.