I am among the first to say that ex-politicians should stay that way and keep quiet. There are sometimes exceptions for past politicians who actually achieved something during their time in office, and who no longer have to tow a party line. Two such are one-time Deputy Prime Minister and Leader of the National Party, John Alexander, and capable Treasurer, Peter Costello.

In a recent chat, they came up with the suggestion that ‘Obfuscation over objectives of energy policy has broken the trust in politics’. That governments have not been prepared to spell out the intended consequences of their policies. The the garbled messages put out over the last decade have produced a breakdown of trust in the system and, in particular, trust in parliament and politicians.

Too many of our politicians have refused to front the people who are going to be affected by their policy.

The government has hidden the fact that it has deliberately adopted a policy that has put up electricity prices to consumers.

The government has deliberately decided to make coal-power uncompetitive by subsidising wind and solar generators. Consumers are paying for it.

The government has tried to tell people that they can have it all - reduce emissions, power will become cheaper, there will be no job losses.

Government didn’t have the guts to say that, if you want to “save the planet” it is going to cost you a lot.

If the government thinks that reducing emissions is more important than the loss of traditional jobs - jobs that older people in them will never replace, they should have told those who were to lose their jobs.

They knew that closing coal-powered generators (Hazelwood for starters) would throw people out of work, but they acted surprised by the result, and said that they didn't mean that to happen.

Hi Ttbn,

John Anderson :)

And yes, in his case, you're right !

Cheers,

Joe

ttbn,
I couldn't disagree more!
It's a free country, so there's really no reason why ex politicians should shut up.
However, if they speak out, they do so at their own risk. I used to think Peter Costello was a capable treasurer, but after seeing what he subsequently said on Lateline, I now think he was a lucky idiot who fluked it!

Obfuscation over energy policy is indeed a problem, and may well have reduced trust in politics, but lies that appeal to simplicity are equally destructive.

Subsidies for renewables led to a small increase in electricity prices. But the main factor in the huge increase in electricity prices was the huge increase in gas prices as we started exporting gas from eastern Australia. And when Hazelwood closed (for safety reasons, not environmental reasons) it increased our electricity system's dependence on gas, pushing up prices further.

Fortunately:
• the renewables are now reducing our dependence on gas, and so resulting in lower electricity prices.
• International gas prices seem to have peaked.

You shouldn't need politicians to tell you that when a power station closes down, the people working in it will lose their jobs. But you should know that in the short term (because a greater proportion of the costs are up front) there are more jobs in renewables.

Likewise, when a coal mine closes down, of course those who work there will lose their jobs. But there's no shortage of mining jobs around.

The loss of trust in our political system would
do great damage. Look at what's happening in
the United States. The erosion of trust in
its democratic political institutions which the
current President is doing is dangerous. It is
playing into the hands of authoritarian forces.
We don't want that to happen here.

Without trust we have diminished capacity to meet
long-term challenges. Weakening political trust erodes
authority and civil engagement, reduces support for
evidence-based public policies and promotes risk aversion
in government.

As stated earlier it also creates the space for the rise
of authoritarian forces. Of course the trust divide between
citizens and government is no easy task. And so far we've
been very lucky in this country - our government is doing
a good job and dealing with the issues rather well. It has
been effective in the way it's handled the pandemic. The
way it has stood up to China and much more.

We, unlike the US have really got little to complain about.

Joe,

You like John Anderson or what he says?

Aidan,

Of course you disagree. If I told you that it was Monday today, you would disagree.

World- wide, renewables are supplying a measly 3% of energy after a considerable time of hearing how RET is booming. Where are all the jobs from renewables? They haven't gone to the 35 plus year-olds. The people losing their jobs in power generation, heavy industry and factories will never work again. All that sort of work has gone to countries building coal plants like there is no tomorrow.

But, anyone who calls Peter Costello an idiot is not going to impress anyone. He didn't have the sort of personality people warm to, but he was no idiot.

I can't copy videos, but for most people (not Aidan) type in YouTube search 'Why wind and solar power won't work'. All the RET nonsense is a lie.

Ttbn,

They work all right, but their manufacture (and maintenance) creates almost as much CO2 as they will save over their working lifetime. But presumably, technology will improve their viability.

As it will improve the viability of fossil fuels :). And make nuclear power safer and more viable too.

Joe

Does anyone know how much the subsidies per turbine is for windfarms ?
The only one I have heard is one in Qld for $200k per year per turbine.
Actually it works out for a year at 2 .5 cents per KWhr which
surprised me it was so low.

Loss Of Trust In The Political System?

Most people wouldn't even be able to describe the Australian political system let alone define their loss of trust in it.

One thing that is now obvious to everyone is that Soot Morrison has painted himself into a corner re Australia's relations with the US and China.

He's now realised that China is an immovable force he can't manoeuvre and that the US thinks he is a second rate leader they shouldn't have anything to do with.

It's all downhill from here Sooty!

What goes around comes around, the moron who started this thread, often refers to me as a moron, doesn't know what he's talking about. ttbn had the audacity to have a go at me for a spelling mistake in a post, the spatts and straw hat man wrote;

"What "ales" us instead of what "ails" us! Fancy presuming that anyone will listen to a person who shows such ignorance"

The clown himself in his opening post here;

"one-time Deputy Prime Minister and Leader of the National Party, John Alexander"

JOHN ALEXANDER a second rate tennis player and Liberal Party politician. Never a member of the National Party and certainly never Deputy Prime Minister!

All I can say is; Fancy presuming that anyone will listen to a person who shows such ignorance!

I hope I didn't make a spelling mistake, ttbn might have a go at me.

People who live in GLASS HOUSES....etc, etc.

Hi Paul,

Just to wind Ttbn up, why not make a comment about "people who, life in grass houses, shouldn't, through stones."

Or: "he who is without signs, let him, caste the First stown."

Or: "waist, not want not."

Mis-spell. Crap punctuation. Mix your metaphors.

Something like that ? Great fun for the rest of us :)

Joe

Wait a moment Paul, wasn't John Alexander a farmer from near Lismore
the leader of the Country Party some years back ?
Either his son or his father was also a politician.
He was minister for Agriculture. From memory he was in John Gordon's
cabinet and probably John Howard's. As leader of the Country Party
he would be Deputy PM.

Bazz....nope.

ttbn is probely referring to 'Blackjack' McEwen, now there's someone from the ttbn era!

I forgot that Paul 1405 is the only person allowed to make errors. John Anderson, not Alexander. I did get it right in my response to Joe. Paul 1405 is just a nasty piece of work, totally incapable of saying, 'hey, don't you mean Anderson, not Alexander? No, he has to go off the deep end and discount everything because of one word. What a hero! Even Aidan didn't lambast me for that.

Joe,

Yes. Correct. The video mentioned shows that mining and other eco-damaging activities would have to soar to produce what the RET enthusiasts claim will happen - totally nullifying the aim of wind and solar. Nuclear is the only answer, if we are to be conned by climate change madness.

I wish someone would tell me how to copy videos to here.

Ttbn,

This one should come through okay:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWfFFMcfEt4

Just take off the 's' from the 'https'.

Joe

Come of it ttbn, you had a go at me over one misspelt word, read my post. YOU WROTE; "What "ales" us instead of what "ails" us! Fancy presuming that anyone will listen to a person who shows such ignorance"

Several times on the forum you have called me a moron, so don't come the crap, you sanctimonious clown. From the time you joined the forum you have been a nasty piece of work towards others, and I'll call you out every time.

Oh Gauwd; the name involved is either Alexander or Anderson.
Probably Anderson, because Alexander is the tennis player/Pollie.
He was definitely DEp PM & Minister for Ag. He was a Farmer in Nth NSW.

Joe,

Thanks for the video of Scott Morrison playing banjo.

I see Mad Dog Paul is still barking. Everyone else was able to work out that it was Anderson I was talking about from the clue 'former Deputy PM and leader of the National Party', but not poor, simple Paul 1405.

Ttbn,

Maybe Paul wasn't in the nude for such conundrums.

Joe

Bazz,

It's definitely Anderson. I'm going out to buy a hair shirt to wear as penance for making such a heinous typo.

ttbn,

Only after you have finished quizzing me.

ttbn, learn a lesson if you wish to throw pebbles from your glass house, be prepared for a boulder or two to be thrown back. I knew you were referring to John Anderson in the first place. I am well versed in Aussie politics, and I know who have been the leaders of the major parties from federation.

John Anderson was one of the "better" leaders of the Country/National Party, but its been mostly downhill since his day 20 years ago.

The simplistic argument that closing down an industry simply throws people out of work does not have to be the case. Redeployment and reskilling in other newer industries is always an option, but it takes a lot of effort and time from all, workers, employers, investors, entrepreneurs, scientists, government. All have to work together to develop new opportunities. There is no doubt that there will be dislocation as the work environment changes to new enterprises, with new challengers. Some, particularly older workers, are likely not to make the move successfully, and that's unfortunate, but it's eniveatable that some will fall by the wayside, and we must provision for that circumstance.

The days of fossil fuels are numbered as the world transitions to renewables. That's not a decision made by Australia, its the way of the future, and we need to prepare for it. The Captain of the Titanic standing on the bridge and yelling "Thou shalt not sink", might go down well with some who want to believe it, but the reality is a somewhat different story.

"Government didn’t have the guts to say that, if you want to 'save the planet' it is going to cost you a lot."

I looked up plastic drinking straws yesterday just out of curiosity.

Coles and woolies wont sell them anymore.
They sell paper straws at $5.00 for a pack of 100.
I looked elsewhere and found 1000 black plastic drinking straws for $15 delivered.
So $1.50 for 100 plastic ones
Or $5.00 for 100 paper ones

You see how they force the new agendas upon us without any choice,
Then they expect us to pay for the new agendas through increased cost.
While businesses make just as much if not more than they did before,
Selling the newer items at much greater cost than the old.

The business elite push these new social agendas
And then they profiteer off them, telling us were evil
when they profited off the exact same things for decades

The whole entire world is full of shite.
Free trade pfffttt.

The good news is if you want a pack of 4 toilet brush looking thingys to clean your straws out, they'll cost you $3 and we can all do the planet a favor sharing our straws and our COVID.
http://shop.coles.com.au/a/national/product/modo-straw-cleaners-modo-straw-cleaners
Lets just hope that no birds, sea creatures or children choke on them.
- Which was the whole point of stopping plastic straws in the first place.

I remember going to the milk bar with soggy paper straws.
They were rubbish, and the world was immediately a better place when they brought the plastic ones in.

I'll do you all a deal.
I'll go back to paper straws when you all go back to things like horse n buggy, washboards and eating rabbits.

AC,

Yes, what bastards 'they' are ...... Always plotting and planning against 'us'.

Could it be instead, that producers get subsidised for producing paper straws, which may be cheaper to produce anyway, than for plastic straws ?

But your idea of sharing straws is something I've never thought of. Thank you, AC.

Joe

We provide best quality food and Halal Meat

<a href="https://haloodies.com/">Halal Meat</a>

Thanks, Ethel.

Nobody needs straws.

Ethel.

This is the last straw, doner kebab, with a side of chips and a can of Coke, hold the straw.

A poor kid killed in Redfern Sydney last evening while delivering for Uber Eats on his pushbike. The fifth such fatality in three months. According to the Federal Liberal minister "Vomit Boy", the kid was a self employed small business man, and not the reasonability of the multi-national he's being exploited by. Pathetic!

ttbn,

You need all the straw you can get to fill the void between your ears.

ttbn,
Seeing as I didn't see your response until Tuesday, I may indeed disagree that it's Monday today. The important thing is I state my reasons for disagreeing.

>World- wide, renewables are supplying a measly 3% of energy
Where did you get that figure? According to BP, excluding hydroelectricity (which supplies 6% of global primary energy) renewables supplied 5% last year, That's higher than nuclear (which is on 4.3%).
Source: http://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/corporate/pdfs/energy-economics/statistical-review/bp-stats-review-2020-full-report.pdf

> Where are all the jobs from renewables?
Do you mean what state? Or what subsector? Or something else?

> They haven't gone to the 35 plus year-olds.
How do you know that? Or are you just guessing?

>The people losing their jobs in power generation, heavy industry and factories will never work again.
That's what happens when a government pursues contractionary economic policies (surpluses) while people are out of work.

>All that sort of work has gone to countries building coal plants like there is no tomorrow.
Countries? China and which other?

There's no commercial case for China to build coal plants any more. AIUI most planned have unofficially been cancelled, though a few are still being built for political reasons.

>But, anyone who calls Peter Costello an idiot is not going to impress anyone.
>He didn't have the sort of personality people warm to, but he was no idiot.
This has nothing to do with his personality. Maybe "idiot" is too strong a word, but when he spoke out after leaving politics I realised all the success he had was due to luck rather than competence.

I don't for a second doubt that there are many videos and rants out there explaining why wind and solar power won't work. But they all use also assumptions and/or obsolete data. Most have already been proven wrong by reality; the rest soon will be.

.

Dear ttbn,

.

You wrote :

« … past politicians who actually achieved something during their time in office … are … and capable Treasurer, Peter Costello »
.

I’m sure you’re right in thinking Peter Costello was a “capable Treasurer” after studying law and having worked as a solicitor and a barrister. Despite his conflictual relationship with Prime Minister Howard, he was Australia’s longest-serving Treasurer.

Also, despite having previously stated that he would support an Australia-based system of constitutional monarchy in which a member of the House of Windsor would be invited to relocate to Australia and serve as our monarch, he advocated for change to a republic at the Australian Constitutional Convention in 1998 and supported the 1999 referendum for Australia to become a republic.

In the year 2000, he made what I consider to be an extremely regrettable historic decision that torpedoed the movement of “rapprochement” (paving the way for possible amalgamation) of Australia and New Zealand that had been gaining momentum, by refusing the adoption of a common currency. He bluntly insisted the “common currency” had to be the Australian dollar.

New Zealand being originally part of the Colony of New South Wales, we both had the same currency until 1910 when Australia began issuing its first silver coins following federation. New Zealand issued its first coins in 1933. Since then, our two currencies have virtually grown up together. Both countries use the same currency valuation mechanism, the TWI (Trade Weighted Index) a basket of currencies of our respective countries’ major trading partners. It would be simple to combine the two baskets and calculate the exchange rates for conversion to a new, common currency which we could perhaps call the Anzac Dollar (ANZ $). Whether it be from a purely monetary or economic point of view, there are no major obstacles to full monetary integration. Our economies converge quite favourably.

Costello’s refusal came as a slap in the face to the New Zealanders who qualified him as a bully.

Despite being a “capable Treasurer”, Peter Costello lacked the foresight of a statesman.

.

BP,

OK. You disagree on Costello, so what about addressing the subject.

Aidan,

You ask so many questions. You should get yourself into the Q&A audience.

"Do you mean what state? Or what subsector? Or something else?"

This question shows that you can't rebut me. Why not tell me where you think the jobs ARE.

"They haven't gone to the 35 plus year-olds.
How do you know that? Or are you just guessing?"

Observation of the job market. The time older people remain out of work. The ones who never work again.

"All that sort of work has gone to countries building coal plants like there is no tomorrow.
Countries? China and which other?"

Well, just China, if that's better for you. But, it doesn't matter. The jobs have left Australia.

That covers your questions to me. But I don't know why I bother as I'm probably an "idiot" in your eyes, just like anyone else you don't agree with. I note also your comment about "videos and rants" which don't fit in with your extremist ideology - or perhaps that should be your idiotic ideology.

Oops. I overlooked your first question. Answer, I looked it up. Obviously a source that wouldn't meet with your approval

.

Dear ttbn,

.

That was part of the subject "Loss Of Trust In The Political System" as you expressed it in the very first paragraph of your opening post :

« I am among the first to say that ex-politicians should stay that way and keep quiet. There are sometimes exceptions for past politicians who actually achieved something during their time in office, and who no longer have to tow a party line. Two such are one-time Deputy Prime Minister and Leader of the National Party, John Alexander, and capable Treasurer, Peter Costello »

.

BP,

I think that you are being deliberately obtuse. The subject was the 'The Loss of Trust in The Political System', not two ex politicians who raised the subject, and who were referred to by me to indicate that it wasn't just my opinion. It's really not worthwhile these days starting a thread just for some posters to play silly buggers in a vain effort to make themselves look clever. OLO is getting to be like a primary school playground

.

Dear ttbn,

.

I’m sorry if I seem “obtuse” but I must say I’m surprised to learn that you had written something in the first paragraph of the introductory post to the thread you initiated that had nothing to do with the subject you wanted us to debate.

I take comfort in the fact that I’m not the only one who made that mistake. I see that a lot of the debate is about the “one-time Deputy Prime Minister and Leader of the National Party, John Anderson (alias Alexander)” who was the other past politician you mentioned in your first paragraph.

I see that Aiden also picked up on Peter Costello from your first paragraph.

So that makes yourself, myself, Aiden, loudmouth2, Bazz, and Paul1405 who all commented on one of the two examples of past politicians you mentioned in your first paragraph. There are not many posts about anything else.

At least I’m in good company but I’ll try to do better next time, ttbn. Promise.

As somebody wisely said on another thread : “words are important”.

.

ttbn,
You seriously think my not wanting to waste time responding to your ambiguous questions with answers other than the ones you were after proves I can't rebut you? You've failed to notice the elephant in the room:
Whether your figures came from a ten year old equivalent of the document I linked to, or an anti renewables propaganda video, or your own backside, the fact remains that the market share of renewables is double what you thought it was. You saw renewables as a failure based on the false premise that investment in them was having no effect on market share. I've not merely rebutted you, I've refuted your main argument!

But getting back to those more trivial questions of yours, I'd expect most of the jobs to be in rooftop solar panel installation, and therefore located in the parts of Australia where the buildings are. There would also be lots of jobs in construction where the new wind and solar farms are, plus a few jobs in operations, maintenance and cleaning for the existing ones.

As for Australia's loss of manufacturing work (beyond the low value work that we were going to lose anyway no matter what happened) high electricity costs were a factor in their departure, but the unsustainably high Aussie dollar was a much bigger factor.

As for your observations of the job market, the trend is well known but there are still many people who go against it. Also I refer you back to my earlier comment about economic policy.

BP,

Your misuse of the reflexive pronoun, and your inability to copy Aidan's name correctly suggests that you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I won't be bothering with you again.

Aidan,

What a mistake I made by responding to your nonsense out of the belief that it is polite to reply to anyone who comments on a thread I start. It won't happen again. Before you call people with whom you disagree 'idiots', take a deep breath and look in the mirror. You have the mentality of a cage fighter, without the ability. Go and insult people on Facebook or Twitter; that's all you are good for.

Aidan,

Just a final word. I don't recall you ever starting a thread. You seem to prefer sneaky sniping at posters with the courage of their convictions and the grit to express them. Cowardy, cowardy custard.

ttbn,
Firstly I have not insulted you on this thread.
Secondly, you have misspelled my name before, so cut Banjo some slack!
Thirdly, while I very seldom start threads on this board, so what? There's nothing particularly brave about doing so, and I have never previously heard anyone here state the opinion that starting a new thread gives one any sort of credibility, nor that anyone is under any sort of moral obligation to do so.

It is disappointing that you regard my telling the truth as "sneaky sniping". Having the courage and grit (or more accurately, the temerity) to express your opinions will inevitably make you look like an idiot if you're too stubborn to change them is the basis of those opinions is conclusively proven wrong.

The above is intended as a warning, not an insult.

Sorry, typo! I should've said:
... if you're too stubborn to change them IF the basis of those opinions is conclusively proven wrong.

Hi Aidan;

"Before you call people with whom you disagree 'idiots', take a deep breath and look in the mirror."

This ttbn bloke takes the prize, people he disagrees with he calls morons.

In reference to two other posters he writes;

Paul 1405 isn't the only moron.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 15 November 2020 8:27:14 AM

.

Dear ttbn,

.

You wrote :

« Your misuse of the reflexive pronoun, and your inability to copy Aidan's name correctly suggests that you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer »
.

I try not to be too blunt either, ttbn. I think I can truthfully say that I generally express myself courteously and respectfully.

However, I plead guilty to the misuse of the reflexive pronoun in my previous post. My PC’s Grammarly corrector immediately picked it up when I wrote it but I decided not to allow the correction as I quite liked the musicality of the combination “yourself, myself, etc., …”, rather than “yourself, me, etc. …”.

Please forgive me for taking that liberty. It hadn’t occurred to me that you might take umbrage at such a temerarious deviation from linguistic purism.

As for my unintentional error in the spelling of Aidan’s name, I hasten to present Aidan my most sincere and humble apologies and thank you, ttbn, for pointing it out to me.

.

I agree with the spirit of the point about the straws. The SJW's are a bit silly. I guess when you push down on the dispenser at Hungry Jacks and a million straws fall out this isn't ideal- just another example of waste in the fast food industry- and food business in general- stopping Woolworths from selling straws is different.

I understand that plastics in the ocean is an issue- this is just another smoking gun to the idea that "there are too many people on the planet".

The Georgia Stones- contain a list of principles (I don't agree with all the principles)- say that human population should be reduced to under 500 Million.

Those cultures that manage their populations should be rewarded over those that don't- use psychological conditioning to change bad behavior

Bad Doggie,

500 million. Utter lunacy. So who are you proposing to kill off ? You're happy to go first ? i.e. to live up to your high principles ? No, you'll be around for a while yet :(

With the latest bio-technology, Java alone could feed 500 million. When Africa gets its act together, all 11 million square miles of it, it could feed 100 billion.

But I don't think world population will ever get (thanks to women's education, birth control, etc.) above 12 billion. By 2100, perhaps even by 2050, many countries, entire regions, will be experiencing population reduction. Europe, Russia and japan are already in that situation.

Joe

Loss Of Trust In The Political System

I have even more loss of trust in my fellow citizens !

individual,

I've never had much trust in my fellow Australians; after all they are the ones responsible for the low class politicians we have. Next time I go to a polling booth, I will be writing 'None of these. I deserve better'. Not we deserve better. Most voters deserve the rubbish they vote for. At least half of them would be happier if they didn't have to vote. They are just not interested.

Watching the news and seeing riots in the US, UK, France, Germany, etc. leaves me wondering if democracy has reached a crossroads where the politicians are wanting to replace democracy with oligarchy.

I've always thought Soot Morrison is a wannabe dictator. Did you see the cartoon on The Insiders yesterday showing Soot standing behind Turnbull and holding a knife and saying something like he only has the knife in case he has to protect Turnbull?

"I've always thought Soot Morrison is a wannabe dictator".

Do you think he will be able to settle for being the Chinese dictator's man on the ground, Mr. O?

ttbn,

Either that or else he and his family will have to live in permanent exile in the Holiday Gardens Hotel in Hawaii.

You lot are just a little too unfair to our PM !

individual,

He's a FULL BLOWN DUD.

That's the best I can say.

He tried to play China off against the US and it has come back to bite him on the bum.

I reckoned China was looking for a reason to justify an invasion of Australia so don't SAY I DIDN'T TELL YOU SO.

Because I TOLD YOU SO.

The Ad Man is more than a "little unfair" to Australia.

Mr Opinion,
You wouldn't survive a day without those you criticise ! Do you actually contribute to our society at all ? Or, are you just a typical half-baked academic hanger-on Leftie exploiting all the loopholes ?

individual,

I'm none of that.

I'm just a very smart guy who has been trained to see what it is to be human.

I think the PM is doing better than any ALP figure would ever do. Yes, I also believe he could do better but so could many ordinary voting Australians.
Beings like Mr Opinion aren't at all helpful.

individual,

I won't put my neck on the line by saying I could do better than Soot Morrison.

But one thing I can say for sure is that:

I DEFINITELY COULDN'T DO ANY FN WORSE.

And they all raised their heads towards Canberra and intoned, "Save us Ad Man, save us; be our Big Daddy, and we will all lie about how good you are. It doesn't matter that your stinky government has only a 51-49 lead as always".

Ttbn,

51-39 is called a 'lead'.

Or would you suggest that 49-51 is almost as good as a lead ? So your Swamp should still rule ?

In the US presidential election in 2000, in Florida, Bush won the vote by a few hundred out of ten million or more. Maybe 50.01 % to 49.99 %. That was a lead. Fair enough.

Joe

Why can't we just keep the plastic straws and put paper warning labels on them?
- Works for everything else.

'Please dispose of carefully'
'Do not throw your straws in the ocean'
'Choking Hazard' etc.

America will loose its Democracy in 24 hours, Judge Scalia of the Supreme Court just called for a day’s stay of the swearing in of the Electrol college so the Supreme CRT can look again at the massive voting fraud, the leftwing lawcourts and officials say didn’t happen despite overwhelming evidence.

Authoritarian Governt is close to gaining power. Authoritarian government who can’t be voted out become tyrannical governments, not accountable and riding roughshod over the people. You can even be murdered like Epstein under these regimes.

Australia needs to pay close attention to what’s happening in America, because our leftwing here is every bit as extreme as the American left especially certain leftwing voters.

Hi Cherful,

Do you mean this Scalia ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonin_Scalia

In February, it will be five years since his passing. He was appointed thirty-odd years before by President Reagan. Perhaps you need to be careful where you get your stories from :)

No cases of fraud yet. None uncovered even by Republican judges, administrators, governors, or dog-catchers. Perhaps they've all gone communist. Bastards.

Joe

Cherful,

Here's an interesting take on electoral fraud:

http://www.alreporter.com/2020/12/07/opinion-moore-brooks-should-be-ridiculed-shunned-for-electoral-college-stunt/

What he said.

Joe

Armchair,
A better solution IMO would be biodegradable plastic straws.

_________________________________________________________

CHERFUL,
You've got it the wrong way round. Authoritarian government is close to LOSING power in the USA

Sorry Loudmouth

A slip of the brain on my part. I do know about the Justice Scalia you are talking about.

I mean Justice Samuel Olito. Of the Supreme Court.

Joe if you don’t know of the massive evidence of fraud that has been been presented in courts you are not watching correct reporting of it.
Guiliani even presented some security camera photos from the election night tally room.
It wasn’t close like the TV left wing channels were saying.

They seem to have forgotten about the camera, being there. Pres Trump was winning well, everywhere late on election night, when they suddenly said they were stopping the count which would be resumed the next day. So everyone packed up, that includes the observers and went home.

There were 4 of them on camera who were walking around pretending to tidy up and pack up. As soon as everyone else had left, they locked the doors, and went over to a long table covered to the floor black cloth. They lifted it up and pulled all these cases of ballots out from under the table. Then began processing them through the machines. It’s all on camera. Next morning was when they said they had an extra 187,000 votes for Joe Biden, which flipped one of the states back from Pres Trump who was ahead by 150,000 in that state.

Ive watched witnesses in court,testify. One woman said, suddenly a couple of big piles of really new untouched looking ballots arrived. Not creased from being posted or handled and two women proceeded to feed each one 5 times each, putting them back into be scanned repeatedly. When she asked about it she was abused.

Observers were abused when they questioned these people.
They made Republican observers stand behind a fence 10 feet away from the counting
at some venues. It’ s illegal in Australia to count votes without independent oversight.

Hi Cherful,

I'll leave it up to the courts, if you don't mind :)

Cheers,

Joe

Aidan the media&Dems have twisted it to seem that way, but I watch honest news commentators on the Internet

The Dems changed the voting rules in their states. Signatures didn’t have to be matched. They could count votes that arrived days after the election
They didn’t allow proper independent oversight of the counting

They used Dem state judges to change the voting rules which it clearly says in the
constitution can only be changed by elected state officials.

The Dems are a law unto themselves in their own states. They don’t abide by the constitution unless it favours them
They’ve just rigged the election so if nothing is done,which means,they get away with it there be a permanent authoritarian left wing government that cannot be voted out. Even if they run a different candidate in a show of democracy, the left wing power base will never change

Goidbye American democracy and civil liberties. The left and globalist corporations are now on side with the Dems because they both believe in exploiting America. Also Facebook and Google who were censoring the news on their sites in favour of the Dems

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It is interesting to see that only 27 (10.8%) of the total of 249 Republicans in the two houses of Congress have the honesty and the courage to acknowledge publicly that “sleepy old Joe” won the 2020 presidential election.

None of the major Congressional Republicans are prepared to admit that “Donald the dictator” lost the election.

Here is what 9 Republican Senators and 11 Republican House Representatives declared :

http://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/22/running-list-republican-leaders-who-say-biden-won/6382054002/
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Due to lack of evidence, on the sole basis of wild, unsubstantiated accusations, “Donald the dictator’s” legal armada has lost just about every lawsuit it has filed before the courts of the United States, challenging the results of the election, with the following notable exception :

« The Trump campaign filed a lawsuit in state court on Nov. 5 alleging that Pennsylvania Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar illegally extended a deadline for mail-in voters to supply any missing ID requirements from Nov. 9 to Nov. 12. A judge ordered the Pennsylvania State Department to further segregate any mail-in ballots with missing voter ID information provided after Nov. 9. In a rare legal win for the Trump campaign, on Nov. 12, an appellate judge ruled that Boockvar lacked the authority to issue guidance to change the deadline and enjoined the state's boards of elections from counting any ballots that have been segregated. »

Despite the application of this court decision, “sleepy old Joe” nevertheless won the final vote in Pennsylvania by the margin of 81,660 votes :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKEZNQuyKB8

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Great song BP, old school country one of my favourite genres.

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“Donald the dictator” and the Republican party lost the 2020 presidential election but, as a consolation prize, they have hit the jackpot !

The ex-real estate magnate – converted political guru’s – fundraising tactics of misleading his gullible supporters into believing that their important post-election monthly contributions are badly needed to help contest widespread voter fraud and defend American democracy have so far raked in $150 million according to The Washington Post, and $170 million according to The New York Times.

“Donald the dictator” has not derailed as some might imagine. He is simply cashing in :

http://www.businessinsider.in/politics/world/news/trump-has-raised-at-least-150-million-to-cover-his-bogus-election-challenges-but-most-of-that-money-will-go-to-financing-trumps-future/articleshow/79512363.cms

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In preparation of “Donald the dictator’s” exit from the White House, Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner have splurged on a $30 million-plus lot of land on Miami’s uber-swanky and high-security Indian Creek Island — known as the “Billionaire’s Bunker”.

They plan to build a house on it and make it their new home for themselves and their three kids :

http://pagesix.com/2020/12/07/ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushner-spend-30m-on-miami-land/?_ga=2.196854820.922521595.1607417751-1258202690.1514485012

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“Donald the dictator” and the Republican Party continue to try to undermine American democracy.

Their latest effort, led by the State of Texas and backed by 22 other (Republican) States and the District of Columbia as well as 126 Republican members of Congress and “Donald the dictator” himself, was rejected by the US Supreme Court on Friday, 12 December 2020.

“Donald the dictator” had previously announced this lawsuit brought before America’s highest court of law as “the big one”.

We’ll see what he comes up with next … In the meantime, he continues to stoke up the fire to keep the money rolling in from his gullible middle-American supporters.

It seems to be working pretty well so far.

Here is the story :

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300182066/us-election-supreme-court-rejects-the-big-one-trump-says-supreme-court-let-us-down-by-rejecting-lawsuit-challenging-biden-victory

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Hi Banjo,

Demo yesterday in support of Trumpf in Washington: no huge crowds, just his rump supporters, the would-be SS, the 'Fat Boys', those big kids who can't go outside without an automatic rifle and body armour, other kids up the street will tease them: real heroes.

Will that be how it goes: the Trump rump of low-IQ fat boys -

'This is the way the world ends,
Not with a bang but a whimper.'

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Dear loudmouth2,

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Yes, it’s a pity the Senate did not put the skids under “Donald the dictator” when they had the opportunity back in February this year instead of acquitting him after he was impeached by the House of Representatives for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.

He’s done a lot of damage since then and will probably do a lot more in the weeks, months and years to come.

The initiative of this latest botched effort to overturn the result of the popular vote, the one “Donald the dictator” called “the big one”, was instigated by Ken Paxton, the sulphurous Republican Attorney General of the State of Texas.

Paxton himself is currently under FBI scrutiny for criminal charges which is probably what motivated him to gain “Donald the dictator’s” gratitude : the hope of obtaining a preemptive presidential pardon and judicial immunity for himself in return for actively promoting "Donald the dictator's" cause in the US Supreme Court.

According to The Associated Press :

« Paxton has spent most of his six years in office under felony indictment alleging he defrauded investors in a high-tech startup before becoming Texas’ top law enforcement officer in 2015. The criminal charges — which carry a potential sentence of 5 to 99 years in prison — threatened to sink Paxton’s political career just as it was taking off, but the case has stalled in court, partly because of legal challenges by his conservative allies.

« The latest accusations — levelled by his own senior staff — could spell more legal trouble.

« Seven of his former top aides signed a letter in October saying they reported their boss to law enforcement over potential crimes including abuse of office and bribery. The allegations centre around his relationship with a donor who gave him $25,000 in 2018 and wanted Paxton to investigate claims that the FBI and a federal judge broke the law over a search of his home.

« Each of Paxton’s accusers has resigned, been put on leave or been fired since reporting him. » :

http://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-georgia-ken-paxton-lawsuits-fc1b81690b73406ea26b6cb1582736d9

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