The final Presidential Debate is scheduled to be held in Nashville, Tennessee, between 12noon and 1.30pm, Friday 23rd October, our Australian Eastern time.

A new rule is that Trump's microphone will be muted when Biden is giving his 2 minute opening remark (and vice versa) in each of the 6 fifteen minute segments. See http://www.business-standard.com/article/us-elections/ahead-of-final-us-presidential-debate-new-rules-allow-to-mute-microphones-120102100058_1.html

This should reduce Trump's interruptions while not entirely eradicating them, or him.

The Moderator is NBC's Kristen Walker, of Native American and Afro American extraction, who should therefore give Trump a totally fair hearing before declaring Biden the winner.

Hi Pete,

If I were Biden I simply would refuse the debate.
Why humour a bully and give him a platform.
Let him talk to himself and tell everyone he's won.
Which is what he will do anyway. I'd rather campaign
instead and let him do his showmanship thing.
Poor USA!

Yeah Kirsten Walker, once a registered Democrat, a great admirer of the Obamessiah and from a family who donates to the Democrats on her behalf. Yep I'm sure she'll be totally even-handed.

OTOH, it seems only fair that Biden have somewhere there who'll happily hold his hand, just like Chris Wallace did.

It seems that they won't just be muting Trump. Biden will also be muted. But the moderator won't be so she'll be able to interrupt on sleepy Joe's behalf.

The third debate was supposed to be about foreign policy but that was tooooooo favourable to Trump so they've changed it. After all the only foreign policy Biden know is how to get foreigners to fund his kid's cocaine habit. Look for Trump to turn every second question into something about Hunter's computer and Joe's lies about Burisma.

Of course, many Americans will be puzzled as to why they hadn't heard about these bombshells previously, given that almost all the social and mainstream media are trying so very hard to censor the story. I'm old enough to remember when journalists and the free press were against censorship....the good old day.

Should be fun.

Hi Pete,

Did you happen to watch - "The Trump Show"
on Channel 9 - Tuesday? It was the first
in a three part series. Two more to go.
Not sure if I can continue to watch. Absolutely
frightening stuff.

The swinging door of the White
House was unbelievable. The resignations, people
leaving - incredible - I lost count of the number.
And imagine Donald Jr and Ivanka vying in 2024?

Trump accusing Biden of being corrupt and favours for his son.
When he's got his own family members entrenched in
White House top positions.

That's like the Mafia getting together to bump off the
Godfather for not going to church on Sunday.

The resignations, people, leaving - incredible -
Foxy,
It's called draining the swamp !

Individual,

Nah. it's called demolishing the democratic process
upon which America has been built. And Russia has been
trying to do that for decades and Trump has managed
to do that in one term.

And as for draining the swamp? He's up to his neck
in it? And it's merely a question of when he's going
to go under.

Hi Foxy

1. Amazing News that TRUMP HAS A CHINESE BANK ACCOUNT in which he pays more TAX THAN HE PAYS TO THE US TAX DEPARTMENT. See http://www.bbc.com/news/business-54625422 What a hypocrite!

So, we can see why Trump delayed publically releasing his tax records for so long.

2. Biden refusing to attend this final debate would be proclaimed a sign of weekness by the Trumpentariat including by the OLO Trump Rodentariat.

And Hey! Trump can prove, once again, that Trump is incapable of debating in a mature and civil manner.

3. No, I missed ""The Trump Show" Channel 9, Tuesday. Trump's dictim is any publicity is good publicity. So I ignore him at times, even though that shatters Trump's fragile ego :)

Cheers

Pete

And it's merely a question of when he's going
to go under.
Foxy,
not being the academic type he'll already have a scuba set secured !

Luckily Friday's Trump-Biden debate moderator, Kristen Welker, comes from very PRO-DEMOCRAT roots.

"Welker, who has strong ties to Democrat activism, was reportedly caught on hot mic discussing “at least one question” that she was going to ask with a member of [Hillary] Clinton’s campaign.

The New York Post reported, “Welker comes from an established Democratic family – who have pour cash into party coffers, and to Trump opponents, for years.

“Her mother, Julie Welker, a prominent real estate broker in Philadelphia, and father, Harvey Welker, consulting engineer, have donated tens of thousands of dollars to Democratic candidates and close to $20,000 to Barack Obama alone,” the outlet reported.

“There was also $3,300 for Joe Biden’s 2020 campaign..."

writes The Sun, 19 October 2020 at http://www.the-sun.com/news/1655133/trump-biden-debate-moderator-kristen-welker/

Individual,

A scuba set secured?

He's not the scuba suit type.

Dear Pete,

It's all really disgusting.

Trump drained the swamp, unfortunately he replaced it with an open sewer. As for who should be the "winner" of the US presidential election, that's already been decided, as I said on another thread its the undeserving Meritocracy. I will claim totalitarian China is more democratic that America, the old Soviet Union was more democratic than America, Cuba is more democratic than America, North Korea is more democratic than America. Have I left anyone out?

Peter Flom
Independent statistical consultant for researchers in social, medical and behavioral sciences
2020 Presidential Election Polls: Biden vs. Trump is a frequently updated site, covering polls by state.

Trump is reasonably far ahead in

WV
AL
KY
OK
ND
IN
TN
MT
UT
MS
MO
KS
These states are within 5 points with Trump leading

AK
SC
AR
IA
TX
GA and OH are exactly tied

Biden is ahead by 5 or less in

NC
NV
FL
AZ
and Biden is ahead by more than 5 in

PA
WI
MI
VA
CO
NH
DE
ME
NM
MD
CT
NJ
NY
HI
WA
CA
MA

"When Bevan Cooney — the recently flipped business partner to Hunter Biden and Devon Archer — went to jail in 2019, investigative reporter Peter Schweizer thought he'd never gain access to the damning emails Cooney once promised. That all changed three weeks ago when Schweizer was given complete access to Cooney's Gmail account. He describes to Glenn just SOME of the business deals described within these emails — like Hunter working with a Russian criminal and with Chinese communists to secure their assets OR to secure one-on-one time with his dad, Joe. The worst part for the Dems is that these emails aren't printouts or copies…they come straight from Cooney's email account. So, what new lie will the left concoct to explain this?"

"Peter Schweizer said the Biden campaign's response to the New York Post story Wednesday presenting new evidence Joe Biden was aware of his son's lucrative business deals during his vice presidency "fits the pattern" of dishonesty he has seen in recent years.

Schweizer exposed Hunter Biden's Ukraine and China deals in his 2018 book "Secret Empires." His subsequent book "Profiles in Corruption: Abuse of Power by America’s Progressive Elite" presented evidence that five members of Joe Biden's family profited from foreign Countries because of his position as vice president under President Obama."

How amusing this is. In a few weeks we will know one way or the other. I like Trump, he is smart in a proper sensible way. Not some smarmy I am a liberal millionaire working for the working classes, the ungrateful SOB's like Biden. Anyway we can hurl all the spite or be a little patient.
Perhaps one of you oh so superior types can explain to me about Biden taking two days off in the fight of his life? How about his deputy who increasingly looks like taking over from him before this year is out?

Hi Paul

Re your "I will claim totalitarian China is more democratic that America, the old Soviet Union was more democratic than America, Cuba is more democratic than America, North Korea is more democratic than America".

You can extravagantly claim that and in so doing be intellectually dishonest.

But you would (almost) be more Fries short of a Happy Meal than new Fascist on the block, "Josephus", from ARIZONA.

Cheers Amigo

Josephus asks "So, what new lie will the left concoct to explain this?"

Well the current lie is that the emails have been debunked (no evidence is offered because there isn't any) and that they are part of a Russian disinformation scheme, despite the fact that the US intelligence agencies have said that's wrong. They just hope that by lying up hill and down dale and keeping it out of the news they can get through to election day without having to own up to the truth that sleepy Joe is indebted to the Chinese, Ukrainians, Russians, Iranians and Kazacks.

That's why I expect Trump to try to raise it in the debate and why I expect the 'moderator' to run interference for Biden.

Speaking of the press trying to keep all this from the American people, it now seems that Wikipedia has joined Twitter, Facebook and most of the legacy media in that most undemocratic of endeavours. All pages that even mention Biden's corruption or the emails are being actively edited to hide the story and to continue the 'debunked' claims, which have themselves, as per above, been disproven.

Speaking of lies..."Joe Biden lied about my dad being drunk in crash that killed his wife and daughter… he’s got a nerve calling out Trump"... http://www.the-sun.com/news/1563919/joe-biden-drunk-crash-neilia-trump-delaware/

" China is more democratic that America, the old Soviet Union was more democratic than America, Cuba is more democratic than America, North Korea is more democratic than America."

That's so demented that, I suspect, even Paul doesn't believe it.

the less facts and truth the better for the democrats. What a den of thieves!

As for Donald Trump?

He's racist, he's homophobic, he's xenophobic,
and he's sexist.

He's the perfect Republican candidate.

And Foxy's a Universalist Globalist.

Dear mhaze,

It really does seem you are going to tout for your president until the very end doesn't it.

I kind of get why runner would do so. He is so obviously enthralled by an authoritarian daddy figure that he will never let go no matter how corrupt, venal and debased his president is.

But you, that isn't as easy to explain. I know you recognise the deep corruption, nepotism, and divisiveness of this man. Plus I know you understand how much he has driven his country into further debt, how much of a lightweight the man is when it comes to foreign affairs, only getting down and dirty with the worst of the world leaders. Yet here you are supporting him through thick and think.

It is quite cult like behaviour.

Canem Malum,

What does a "Universalist Globalist" even mean?

'I kind of get why runner would do so. He is so obviously enthralled by an authoritarian daddy figure that he will never let go no matter how corrupt, venal and debased his president is.'

oh if his policies matched that of the baby killing mob he would lose my support straight away Steelie. Obviously child sexual abuse, killing the unborn, open borders mean nothing to you. Just the usual identity politics is the best the Hollywood deviants, lying liberal media, big techs and regressives like you and Foxy can come up with.

SR,

Back from your self-imposed sabbatical following the CFR/IFR debacle I see. Enough time has passed I guess that you can now deny error and hope no one bothers checking....the more things change.

" Yet here you are supporting him through thick and think."

Well one doesn't need to support Trump to recognise the corruption in the Biden family that has been confirmed in the past week or so. Utterly corrupt was always suspected, but is now confirmed. Subsuming the nation's interests to one's own family avarice was always suspected but is now confirmed. Being a prime candidate for blackmail was always suspected but is now confirmed.

And yet the man will probably be running the nation in the near future as the corrupt legacy and social media seek to hide the new information.

Its very true that I'm a strong supporter of the Trump presidency. It has been wildly successful in reversing the decline of the USA both domestically and internationally in the face of the most unprecedented internal opposition in that or any other nation's history. Even in regards to this new data we see not only the media seeking to hide the evidence, but the intelligence agencies as well.

Its unbelievable that a president was almost impeached while the FBI sat on and hide the evidence that he was innocent.

I appreciate that all those overwhelmed by Trump Derangement Syndrome will turn a blind eye to the corruption in the Biden camp in particular and in the US left in general. Only those with the interests of that nation and through it the western world will be concerned as to what a president utterly beholden to the Chinese government will mean. The rest will rejoice that they finally got their man.

Its funny (or is it sad) that the TDS crowd here haven't even murmured an attempt at defending their saviour. I guess his morals match their own.

The president of the United States is more than a
chief executive. He (or she) is also a symbol
for the nation and for the world of what it means to
be an American. Much of the president's power to
represent and to inspire comes from "narrative".

It is largely through the stories he tells or personafies
and through the stories told about him that a president
exerts moral force and fashions a nation defining legacy.

The ongoing rude, crude, sexist, callous, and odious behaviour
of Donald Trump. His uncontrollable narcissism and bullying
continue to set a deplorable example for the American
people and the image of their nation worldwide.

It really is cringeworthy and yet people like runner and
others continue to support and admire the man who's only out
for himself - to win at all costs - not really knowing why.
The man is what he is. But what's the excuse of his
supporters - who should know better.

They can't all be deranged.

'It really is cringeworthy and yet people like runner and
others continue to support and admire the man who's only out
for himself'

Just for you Foxy - reasons I would support Trump if I lived in US

1. Pro Life
2. Gave the finger to the globalist gw scam
3. Will protect religous freedom (unlike democrats)
4. Will stand up for America rather than totally corrupt globalist
5. Will support Israel's right to exist
6. Will stop the country being further destroyed by illegal immigration
7. Will continue to drain the putried swamp (made up of Republicans and democrats)
8. Will push back on China rather than take bribes like Biden and his family
9. Will push back against lying liberal media and big tech.

IVANKA TRUMP's TRADEMARK REQUESTS FAST-TRACKED by CHINA AFTER DONALD TRUMP ELECTED

DONALD TRUMP also IMPLICATED

On March 29, 2017, Ivanka Trump, the eldest daughter of President Trump, became an official

government employee, joining her husband, Jared Kushner, as an adviser to her father.

The day before that appointment, Ivanka applied for 17 new trademarks with the Chinese government.

In May of 2018, amid tense trade war negotiations between China and the United States,

China approved seven Ivanka trademarks.

Over a span of two months in late 2018, the Chinese government granted 18 trademarks

to companies linked to President Trump and his daughter.

The new approvals covered Ivanka-branded fashion gear, including sunglasses, handbags,

shoes and jewelry, as well as beauty services and VOTING MACHINES.

“Ivanka receives preliminary approval for these new Chinese trademarks while her father

continues to wage a trade war with China.

Since IVANKA TRUMP has retained her foreign trademarks, the public will continue to have to ask

whether President TRUMP has made foreign policy decisions

in the interest of his and his family’s businesses!

see http://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/22/ivankas-trademark-requests-were-fast-tracked-in-china-after-trump-was-elected/#5e0877b61d6

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universalism#Philosophy

Philosophy
Universality
Main article: Universality (philosophy)

In philosophy, universality is the notion that universal facts can be discovered and is therefore understood as being in opposition to relativism.[4]

In certain religions, universalism is the quality ascribed to an entity whose existence is consistent throughout the universe.
Moral universalism
Main articles: Moral universalism and Moral particularism

Moral universalism (also called moral objectivism or universal morality) is the meta-ethical position that some system of ethics applies universally. That system is inclusive of all individuals,[5] regardless of culture, race, sex, religion, nationality, sexual orientation, or any other distinguishing feature.[6] Moral universalism is opposed to moral nihilism and moral relativism. However, not all forms of moral universalism are absolutist, nor do they necessarily value monism. Many forms of universalism, such as utilitarianism, are non-absolutist. Other forms such as those theorized by Isaiah Berlin, may value pluralist ideals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalism#Arguments_in_favor

Arguments in favor

Proponents of globalism believe in global citizenship; that is, the problems of humanity can be resolved with democratic globalism. Democratic globalism is the idea that all people matter, no matter where they live, and that universal freedom and human rights can be fostered for all mankind.[5] World citizens believe in civic globalism[6] and that by thinking globally and acting locally they can affect positive change across all barriers.
Arguments against
Arguments against globalism are similar to those moved against globalisation, among which loss of cultural identity, deletion of community history, conflict of civilization, loss of political representation and collapse of the democratic process in favour of a globally managed open society.[7] However, the term "globalist" has also been used as a pejorative for political enemies, on the left within the context of the 1990s anti-globalization movement and protests, and on the right as a pejorative of "cosmopolitans" or those who favor internationalist projects over national ones.

runner,

I feel sorry for you. All the things you've listed
are fake news. You've bought what the fraudster is
selling hook, line, and sinker. The only thing the
man really cares about is himself and making money
for himself (and family).

You've been duped - big time.

'The only thing the
man really cares about is himself and making money
for himself (and family).'

don't even pretend anymore Foxy that telling me to 'judge not' was always a farcical joke to you.

http://conservapedia.com/Nationalism_vs._globalism

Globalism

Globalism is a liberal and authoritarian desire for a "one world" view that rejects the role of sovereign nations in protecting values and encouraging productivity. Globalism is anti-American in encouraging Americans to adopt a "world view" rather than an "American view." The ultimate goal of globalism is the eventual unification of humanity under a one-world government.

Globalists oppose nationalism, national sovereignty, and self-governance. Instead, they favor open borders, free trade, H-1B visas, interventionism, foreign aid, and changing the U.S. Constitution. They oppose strong border security and the building of border walls. Globalists can come from several political leanings, from the far-left to those considered on the right-of-center.[7]

Liberals support globalism because it leads to centralized power, thereby providing liberals with an easier way to gain control. Liberals can more easily persuade a handful of people in centralized government to rule in their favor than convince everyone of their agenda in a decentralized form of government.
War on Sovereignty
Middle Eastern migrants traveling through Slovenia in 2015 with the assistance of the police and armed forces, a result of the EU's globalist open borders policies.

See also: War on Sovereignty and One-world government

Doing away with national sovereignty and eventually creating a one-world government is an ultimate goal of globalists. They believe in the concept that humanity is progressing for the better, and they want to create a utopia where humanity is unified and where there are no wars, conflicts, or borders (cultural and national). Supranational organizations such as the United Nations, European Union, World Trade Organization, and the Paris climate agreement, appear to be the forerunners to a complete one-world government. All these organizations are supported by liberals. A one-world government is the epitome of big government.

Canem Malum,

Why do you think Foxy is a "Universalist Globalist?"

I don't see how your given explanations apply to her.

While many of those who either disbelieve or deny the existence of a "War on Sovereignty" imagine it as a very speedy attempt to instantly unite the world into a global government, those who are actively pushing for a one-world government are pursuing a relatively longsuffering strategy that will slowly merge all the countries of the world into each other prior to the official establishment of any world government. They believe this strategy to be the only way it can be successfully achieved. Zbigniew Brzezinski, an Obama advisor and member of the Council on Foreign Relations and Trilateral Commission, admitted this, stating that "we cannot leap into world government in one quick step. The precondition for genuine globalization is progressive regionalization."[8] Organizations such as the EU and NAFTA are examples of this "progressive regionalization."[8]

Additionally, Richard N. Gardner, a former State Department official, wrote in 1974 that a world government could not be established in one step. Rather, he argued that "in short, the ‘house of world order’ will have to be built from the bottom up rather than from the top down," and that "an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old fashioned assault."[9][10][11] Gardner's strategy has been fully adopted by globalists, and international organizations such as the World Bank, International Monetary Fund, World Trade Organization, Paris climate agreement, and the numerous disarmament treaties are all examples of this strategy in action – eroding sovereignty bit by bit until all the countries of the world are so integrated by the complicated web of international organizations and treaties that the official establishment of a world government can be accomplished seamlessly and would rather be a mere recognition of de facto reality.

Globalists also have used the mass migration, such as the European migrant crisis incident, to advance their goal. As mass migration puts large numbers of people from certain locations into another country with different values, it causes much disruption, and this is able to reduce national pride and make the transition to a global world order relatively seamless.

Dear mhaze,

You wrote “Back from your self-imposed sabbatical following the CFR/IFR debacle”

Well that got a giggle.

Your deeply flawed understanding of the difference did you no credit so I am a little bemused why you would think it was wise bringing this up again.

As to Trump you have clearly drank large quantities of koolaid.

This is clearly projection from you;

“Utterly corrupt was always suspected, but is now confirmed. Subsuming the nation's interests to one's own family avarice was always suspected but is now confirmed. Being a prime candidate for blackmail was always suspected but is now confirmed.”

To be rolling it out as you have is at least amusing and must be tongue in cheek.

runner,

The case of Donald Trump is different.
He is being judged by his own actions.
And they speak for themselves.
And in your case that is what's so sad.
You've been so critical of others in
the past - yet you're buying into this
fraudster and not seeing him for what he
really is. But I guess you're not the only
one doing that - if that's any comfort to you.
I feel sorry for you - and worse - I feel
sorry for America. They don't deserve such
a crude, callous, odious leader - an uncontrollable
narcissist and bully.

cont'd ...

runner,

But hey - you think he's anti abortion?
I guess that's all that matters to you.
The fact that over 220,000 Americans have
died on his watch - and the count is rising
as he continues to flaunt the safety measures
and calls Dr Fauci all sorts of name - doesn't
matter. Plus the fact that he places children in
cages - that's OK as well. And the list goes on.

And you pretend to be a Christian. You're the one
who needs to stop pretending.

showing your true bile and hatred Foxy! Not surprising seen the your hero was Hilary.

Globalists oppose nationalism, national sovereignty, and self-governance. Instead, they favour open borders, free trade, H-1B visas, interventionism, foreign aid,
Canem Malum,
Yes and, they facilitated terrorism, racism, exploitation, pollution, idolisation, misinformation, greed etc etc.
In fact they brought on everything they claim to condemn ! They fired the starting gun to dumbing-down which made them so stupid that they can't even see that they're doing it to themselves as well, not just to normal people !

Have to disagree. A democratic society will always deserve the leader/govt they elect, assuming elections are fair and transparent.

It is called the will of the people.

It is simply too bad you may disagree with the outcome.

In Australia, many on the left (especially academia) very often lampoon the Coalition as having no idea about the right policy solutions, but the Coalition keeps on getting elected

Foxy wrote: "The president of the United States is more than a
chief executive. He (or she) is also a symbol
for the nation and for the world of what it means to
be an American. Much of the president's power to
represent and to inspire comes from "narrative".

It is largely through the stories he tells or personafies [sic]
and through the stories told about him that a president
exerts moral force and fashions a nation defining legacy."

In June 2016 Dan McAdams of 'The Atlantic' wrote:
"The president of the United States is more than a chief executive. He (or she) is also a symbol, for the nation and for the world, of what it means to be an American. Much of the president’s power to represent and to inspire comes from narrative. It is largely through the stories he tells or personifies, and through the stories told about him, that a president exerts moral force and fashions a nation-defining legacy."
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-mind-of-donald-trump/480771/

He spelt 'personifies' correctly! Other than that a direct copy by Foxy.

You really can't help yourself, can you Foxy? This desire to appear erudite by stealing other's words and thoughts to bolster your prejudices. It really is quite.....well we all know what it is.

__________________________________________________________________

SR,

I predicted that you would "now deny error and hope no one bothers checking". And behold that's exactly what you've done. I know your MO toooo well - makes me feel a little icky.

Foxy being foxy likes the shy fox dealers. Its the sneaky quiet ones you have to watch who work in the cover of darkness. The Biden family are guilty of the things they accused Trump of. Trump's impeachment process was a cover for their behaviour.

http://twitter.com/johnrobertsFox/status/1319223988455878659?fbclid=IwAR29d1fffvVPZwpstSd14hXZ8Q_fKYDLNf3ybfoUmkHuNDLNElVhCXOIg5U

Trump might be loud, aggressive and open but this reveal who he is. Sly people do things under cover so as not to to be exposed. Kamala Harris is the true agenda for the Democrats. She will become President within two years and change the Christian values of America.

Individual,

For your information I am a nationalist who will
put my country first.

mhaze,

I guess I can't win with you lot. When I give credit and
acknowledge my sources - I get accused of being a " Leftie"
and not having a brain of my own - and not being able to
think for myself, and the insults keep coming. When I don't
acknowledge - I get attacked again.

Did you not agree with what I posted? So why attack me instead
of analysing what I posted\?

Are you so perfect? And I bet you will continue to keep finding
things wrong no matter what I post.

Grow up!

runner,

You have indulged in some of the most venomous postings on
this forum over time. You are in no position to criticize
anyone. And now you are supporting a creature who is the
anti-Christ - go figure.

Just on Foxy/McAdam's (or McAdam/Foxy?) attacks on Trump.

Its very true that Trump is obnoxious, loud, self-aggrandising and bullying. He attacks without mercy those who attack him. How many careers and reputations have been destroyed after a foolish assault on Trump?

This is not the way Republicans are supposed to operate which is why so many Democrats and not a few Republicans are aghast. Republicans are supposed to accept assaults and respond in a patrician tone. Call Romney a liar when he tells the truth about Benghazi and he meekly retreats.

That's what Republicans are supposed to do. Democrats can act as boorishly as they like, but not Republicans. So when Trump broke those rules, the left went berserk. Obama can advise his followers to punch back twice as hard and that's fine. But Trump punching back is 'unpresidential'. Obama can beg Putin to back off until after the election and no one batters an eye-lid. And then they make up whole false conspiracies that involve Trump and Putin and Trump's supposed to just roll over and play dead.

But he doesn't and that's why his followers love him. He fights...for them. He ignores the old guard when they need to be ignored and wins. And his opponents hate that. But that's why he won on NAFTA, the Chinese trade war and peace in the Middle East. That's why Putin is cocooned in an economic mire. Iran as well.

"speak softly and carry a big stick" said Teddy Roosevelt (see Foxy that's how you do attributions). But the last few presidents have taked softly and carried a limp celery stick. Trump indeed carries a big stick but he doesn't talk softly.

The Europeans ignored successive presidents on NATO. They can't ignore Trump and they hate him for it. Iran got paid billions by Obama and launched wars in Syria and Iraq. Trump stopped all that. And they hate him for it. And all those 'experts' who advised presidents to go softly on the Europeans and Iranians have been proven wrong. And they hate him for it.

Obnoxious....yes.
Pompous....yes
Effective....yes

Listen to Steve Bannon on Biden:
Joe Biden is a Criminal and should be in Prison for lies, and let Kamala Harris run for President.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zhWHsfEa0U

The final Presidential Debate is on SBS TV

in half an hour 12 NOON (Australian Eastern time) TODAY Friday

I neglected to mention SBS at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=9293#312627

More revelations today that the usual suspects will try hard to ignore.

1. One of the Biden business partners has confirmed that the Hunter Biden emails are authentic. He's also confirmed that Joe was indeed the 'big guy' and was up to his eye-balls in the corruption. As bad as that is, it also proves Joe lied when he said he had no knowledge of his son's business dealings. In fact his son was just the front man for the criminal family.

2. It was always curious why Biden chose Harris as his VP candidate. Now we know. Harris was listed as one of the contacts for the Biden crime ring in at least one of the pieces of correspondence between Biden and the Chinese businesses he was taking money from. A bunch of other Democrats were likewise listed.

No wonder they are so desperate to get Joe into power. There are more than a few Democrat necks on the line if they can't get control of the authorities and kill the investigation.

Just to show how obnoxious he is, Trump is bringing the business partner (Tony Bobulinski) mentioned above to the debate tonight. Now THAT'S how you punch back twice as hard.

________________________________________________________________

Foxy sorta kinda acknowledge that she plagiarised her text. That's as much 'mea cupla' as we ever get from her.

It seems she had to do it otherwise people would call her names.

"I'm sorry your honour, I had to lie about being a murderer, otherwise they might have called me a thief".

SBS is biased for Biden, SKY for Trump. ABC and SBS are Globalist in their agenda.

I am looking forward to having a laugh in this final debate.

No doubt Trump is a great scrapper; does not miss a beat at making the points he wants to be put out there.

Pretty civil debate this time

@Chris Lewis

You spoke too soon.

Now Trump is interrupting, calling Biden names and going off the rails generally.

He takes every opportunity, but I still think it is pretty civil.

That is my opinion.

I thought both did well in advocating their positions

Josephus,

You stated that Trump represents the "Christian values
of America".

By saying that the only "real" Americans are white and
Christian?

That may be your version of "Christian values". It's
not those of Christ's teachings.

Hi Pete,

I watched the final Presidential debate.
The contrast between the two candidates was striking.
Great debate. And the moderator was excellent.
What a difference between this and the first debate.

Trump did a great job in mocking what Biden has done when in power.

Many voters will also know that the Democrats promise much, but don't always deliver.

For your information I am a nationalist who will
put my country first.
Foxy,
If you want us to believe you, you'd better make it more believable in your posts by including ordinary folks' problems & visions not just heaping on praise on those who just write stories !

'By saying that the only "real" Americans are white and
Christian?'

educate yourself Foxy

China. South Korea and Africa have larger amounts of Christians than America. You really should get yourself fact checked.

mhaze,

You blame me for not giving you a "mea culpa" for
my not acknowledging a small excerpt that I took
from an article in The Atlantic. You went to all that
trouble to chase it down and point it out on this forum
and you want a "mea culpa" from me? I would have thought
you've already received your satisfaction from your act.

Yet the mind boggles that you manage to single out my
behaviour while at the same time you continue to laud
a US President who consistently lies through his teeth
and you call him "effective".

You're a strange man!

Individual,

I have no control over what you do or don't believe.
Nor am I really interested. And I don't need your or anyone
else's validation. As for heaping praise on anyone?
I prefer meaningful action to meaningless praise.

runner,

It was President Trump who made that statement.
Not me

Yes indeed Foxy

This final debate was far better that the First Pres "Trumpus Interruptus" Debate

and also better than the VP debate, as candidates stayed on message much more.

CNN Poll: "BIDEN WINS FINAL PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE"

CNN reports, 23 Oct 2020 http://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics/cnn-poll-final-presidential-debate/index.html

"Joe Biden did a better job in the final debate on Thursday, according to a CNN Instant Poll of debate watchers. Overall, 53% of voters who watched the debate said that Biden won the matchup, while 39% said that President Donald Trump did.

Viewers once again said that Biden's criticisms of Trump were largely fair (73% said they were fair, 26% unfair), and they split over whether Trump's attacks on Biden were fair (50% said yes, 49% no).

That's a more positive outcome for Trump. In a CNN Instant Poll after the first presidential debate, just 28% said they thought the President had won the debate, and 67% called his criticism of Biden unfair...

More debate watchers, though, said Trump's performance raised concerns about how he would handle the presidency (55%) than did Biden's (41%).

Thursday's debate watchers preferred Trump over Biden on the economy (56% Trump would better handle it vs. 44% who say Biden would), and divided about evenly between the two on foreign policy (50% prefer Biden, 48% Trump).

Biden held a wide edge as more trusted to handle the coronavirus (57% Biden to 41% Trump), climate change (67% Biden to 29% Trump) and racial inequality in the US (62% Biden to 35% Trump).

Biden was also largely seen as offering a better plan for solving the country's problems (54% Biden to 42% Trump), and voters split over who seemed to be the stronger leader (49% each).

Although Thursday's event was far less contentious than the first presidential debate, Biden was far more apt to be seen as directly answering the moderator's questions (62% said he did, 31% said Trump).

Women were more likely than men to say that Biden did the better job in the debate (60% of women said Biden won, 35% Trump, while among men, 47% said Biden won, 44% said Trump did).

...White voters with college degrees (64% Biden to 29% Trump).

...Younger voters broadly saw Biden as the winner, 66%, to 27% for Trump among those under age 45..."

'CNN Poll'

You may as well had an abc poll! The biggest fake network in the US. Isn't that where that hypocrite Cuomo works?

You would have to be an ignoramus not to know who you are voting for by now.

neither of them disappointed or impressed me.

Murdoch's CONSERVATIVE The Australian: "...BIDEN IS A CLEAR WINNER."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/joe-biden-emerges-unscathed-from-us-presidential-debate/news-story/766f6e60c46313dd36918ee24d6d45d3

"POINTS WIN IN NASHVILLE MOVES BIDEN CLOSER TO THE OVAL OFFICE"

Joe Biden is a step closer to the White House after emerging unscathed from the final presidential debate with Donald Trump less than two weeks before the election.

The only relevant measure of who won or lost this debate is how it impacts the final frenetic stages of this campaign.

On that measure Biden is a clear winner. He was calm and considered, with only the odd ‘senior’ moment, as he rebuffed with surprising effectiveness Trump’s attacks on his family’s business dealings.

Trump had clearly decided that his best chance of a game-changing moment in this campaign was to question Biden’s alleged business involvement with his son Hunter in Ukraine and China.

This is a murky but still unfolding story which has been largely ignored by the liberal US media and obsessed over by the conservative US media.

But Trump’s push to focus on claims that the Biden family was making money in Ukraine and China while he was vice president were far too vague to cut through to ordinary voters.

Indeed, Biden had a solid retort by pointing out that the president was demanding information about Biden’s finances when Trump refuses to release his own tax records.

While Trump failed to land these blows, Biden hit the president with deadly precision on his mismanagement of the coronavirus pandemic. Biden made the simple but powerful claim that any president who presided over the deaths of more than 220,000 Americans had forfeited the right to be president.

Biden also scored hits on the president over his truly absurd claim that America is ‘turning the corner’ on the virus when infections have now spiked up to more than 65,000 a day from 35,000 just over a month ago. When Trump said Americans are “learning to live with it”, Biden retorted that “people are learning to die with it”.

...[Trump] appeared to be less well prepared than Biden and performed particularly poorly on the key issue of healthcare."

Hi Pete,

I think that the Trump supporters will continue to
support the man no matter what. The key question is
whether Biden was able to influence and of the
fence-sitters or undecided voters? I guess we shall
have to wait and see. Most commentators agree that
Trump stumbled during this debate and Biden came
out as the more prepared and suitable leader.

Of course that won't matter unless everyone votes.

The following link tries to explain - can America
survive the re-election of Donald Trump?

The outlook does not look good!

http://theconversation.com/can-america-survive-the-re-election-of-donald-trump-148239

support the man no matter what.
Foxy,
It's what he stands for is what people support. Just as the progressives support the excesses they get & don't want to reduce no matter what so the less well off can get a better deal !
What it boils down to is draining the swamp vs re-stocking the swamp !

Individual,

He's not draining the swamp he's creating a sewer
for everyone apart from himself, his rich friends,
family and corporations and organizations from whom he
can continue to make money. As he's admitted - basically
he's a business man - who only cares about one thing -
making money - for HIM!

Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

very true, biden said what all the lefties wanted to hear.

And Trump tried to undermine Biden any way he could.

Wow, if that is a surprise, please wake me up.

But Foxy seems excited

@Chris Lewis

You're the ultimate cynic, offering nothing.

'He's not draining the swamp he's creating a sewer
for everyone apart from himself

Yeah Foxy like Amy Barrett and Kayleigh McEnany. One wonders how low you can go. I suppose you haven't reached as far as Hilary and Kamala!

who only cares about one thing - making money - for HIM!
Foxy,
And, by business doing so millions of people can earn a living whilst theorising Academia experts employ how many ?
How many wages does the average Librarian or Sociologist pay ?

runner,

You have no credibility here whatsoever.

Individual,

What with his handling of the Covid pandemic, and the
US economy in one of its worse crisis yet, your statements
really don't make any sense.
Get your facts straight and then post. David Fisher pointed
it out that discussing anything with you is pointless.
I'm beginning to see what he meant. Talk to runner.
You're well matched.

This time around the debate was more or less even and sensible. With the use of a mute button Trump was unable to launch into his usual tirade of abuse as he regularly does against Biden. I'd say the Trump demeanour shown might swing him a few as yet undecided voters.

runner, what do you have to say to the claim Trump supports the baby killers. He took drugs developed and derived from aborted fetus's.

Foxy wrote: "You went to all that
trouble to chase it down and point it out on this forum
and you want a "mea culpa" from me?"

I didn't ask for a mea culpa from you...I pointed out we wouldn't get one. A mea cupla is an acknowledgement of error and an implied promise to do better. Asking that of you would be like asking a lioness to go vegan.

But I didn't go to "all that trouble to chase it down". When I read your post it rang a bell since I'd only recently read extracts from the article in a piece about how unethical it was for analysts to break the Goldstein rule by pronouncing on people they hadn't personally examined ie the Atlantic article you plagiarised was unethical.

So Foxy unethically plagiarises an unethical article. The quintessential Foxy post.

Foxy, we both know you do this all the time. I only call you out maybe 10% of the time. But whenever we see one of Foxy's longer posts attempting to make erudite observations, you can pretty much take it to the bank that 1 or 2 (or 3 or 4) paragraphs are direct copy-pastes.

Foxy,
pointless because it hits a point that you & David f can't answer or rather can't afford to for fear of the Domino effect !

Trump has announced that Sudan is now also signing up to his peace initiative in regards to Israel. More and more Muslim nations are now making peace with the Jewish state as a result of the insights from Trump and the efforts of Jared Krushner.

We also see the Saudis increasingly criticising the Palestinian leadership as they start to prepare their people to make peace with Israel.

As a result, peace breaks out all over. Iran is sidelined and boxed in. Turkey's Ottoman play is no more.

And the US starts to pull troops out of the Middle East and Afghanistan.

When Trump won, we were told that he was a warmonger who would get the US involved in endless war. Not a few in this forum talked of him starting WW3.

But the facts are that he is the greatest peacemaker the US has seen in two generations. The US has not started or been involved in a single new war under Trump's leadership. Consequently, the US is pulling troops back home from places as diverse as Germany and Iraq.

Its an historic achievement that the usual partisans are determined to misunderstand or ignore. But history won't ignore it.

Its a turning point that may be squandered by the next leader but will stand forever as evidence that the so-called expert advise on US Middle-eastern policy has been wrong for the past 30 years.

Only one man saw that and had the strength and ability to correct it.

foxy votes on personality not policy, she has become so obsessed with personality she cannot examine policy.

She states:"You stated that Trump represents the "Christian values
of America". By saying that the only "real" Americans are white and
Christian? That may be your version of "Christian values". It's
not those of Christ's teachings."

She shows her ignorance of American Christianity. The Churches I see in America about 12% of their members are non white. Example SBN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8Nudmm7ha4

http://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/essays/demographics-of-christianity

Josephus,
I think it's just that she even sleeps with her one-way rose-coloured glasses on !

Yes, I am a bit cynical.

I too want the Democrats to win, but I also recognise that the Democrats, like Labor here, are very good at promising too much.

The rise of Trump shows this is not possible, so I will be interested to see what unravels over next four years, assuming democrats do well.

The man the goons love to hate yesterday pulled off another international peace deal between Sudan and Israel.

Welcome to the forum
Where anachronism rules
Where tribal antiquated oldies
Think that they are cool

The forum used to be
An interesting place
Today it's full of nasties
And postings in-your-face

Back in their good old days
They went to pubs to fight
Today what with COVID
They can't even drive

So they come onto the forum
To vent their little spleens
Against the anti-Trumpers
And other "vile extremes".

These guys are Trump supporters
Male, white, and supreme
Self-proclaimed true Trumpeters
Blow-hards, full of steam!

cont'd ...

http://theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/20/donald-trump-is-a-g--d-president-but-only-for-the-top-1

Sorry for the typo. Here's the link again.

http://theguardian.com/business/2020/jan-20/donald-trump-is-a-good-president-but-only-for-the-top-1

Chris Lewis said- "Yes, I am a bit cynical. I too want the Democrats to win, but I also recognise that the Democrats, like Labor here, are very good at promising too much. The rise of Trump shows this is not possible, so I will be interested to see what unravels over next four years, assuming democrats do well."

Answer- Sadly you wouldn't be working at Australian National University supporting Trump. We probably can't take the opinion of the ANU with objective credibility.

The ANU and the universities have been at the vanguard of national corruption for a while. I believe that you personally try to be objective but in the current (worse than polarized) climate this is impossible. Some in the past have rationalized working within a corrupt organization by telling themselves that it is easier to do something from within than from without.

Something needs to be done about the "Communist Salami Cutters". The first step is to close the borders and dis-infranchise the corrupters.
Now is the time for self sufficiency- financial and consumer independence. Don't resource the enemies surrounding us- they feed off us in order to destroy us- through the organizations who give jobs to our enemies- through the enemies who buy stocks in Australian companies such as Union Superannuation.

Union's didn't have to become Communist.

We need to rebuild society from the top down ensuring that Universal Globalists especially Communist ones never subvert it again.

Perhaps government should be returned to one- of the people, by the people, for the people. The alternative is creeping universalist principles designed to tyrannize us all in the name of Big "Gay" Brother (or Sister).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_tactics#Origins

"1940s Stalinist dictator Mátyás Rákosi Hungary.[2][3] Rákosi claimed he destroyed the non-Communist parties by "cutting them off like slices of salami."[3] By portraying his opponents as fascists (or at the very least fascist sympathizers), he was able to get the opposition to slice off its right-wing, then its center, then most of its left-wing, so that only fellow travellers willing to collaborate with the Communist Party remained in power"

Yes CM, I worked at ANU.

I did not end well.

I have a couple of matter currently before the OAIC and FWC.

Chris Lewis-

I'm very sorry that things didn't work out well for you at the ANU. I hope you get compensation. Hopefully there will be more clarity around the right to free speech in academia and how to deal with protesting communist students without making the situation worse.

People in democratic society have the right to protest perhaps but the university still has business to conduct on their private property. I guess John Stewart Mill's negative freedom idea may hold in this case.

Maybe the university can cancel the courses of students that become too disruptive on their property and if necessary have them removed from the campus by the police. I'm sure the communists will obtain video footage of all the police excesses.

But universities aren't the only place where one can get cancelled. Banks have even been closing accounts of those with certain politics. I would think this would be something for the equal opportunity commission- but it seems they are only interested in certain ideological positions.

For me the time has come where it's necessary to give comment on public issues from the shadows.

Many talk about the light- but I'm learning to appreciate the darkness.

It's still not safe but it's safer.

I read your thesis on the Howard Government and Public Opinion. Thanks for providing it- I found it a relatively factual unbiased account. Kudos

Communist Groups could also be sued for disrupting lectures in certain cases. Maybe a cost formula can be constructed based on the wasted time of the majority of students and their fees.

Maybe law schools can be conscripted in this task.

Any institution that fails to protect it's own interest will be destroyed. A country is constructed of many institutions.

We are the ones in the majority but we are cowed by the "mad minority" Communists and Global Universalists. We need to work together. But we must not become them

CM, my problems started when I complained about being called an anti-Labor scholar.

Joe Biden brings no special skills to the President position. He publicly lies to the People of America during the Debate. http://www.facebook.com/SeanHannity/videos/658241018169557

This is a partial listing of Joe Biden's experiences
taken from the link given below:

1) He served as Vice President under Obama 2009 - 2017.
2) 1973 - 2009 Biden served in the US Senate and was
on two key committees a) Senate Foreign Relations
Committee. b) Senate Judiciary Committee.
3) He served on the New Castle County Council after
finishing Law School.
4) Since leaving the White House Biden and his wife
launched the "Biden Cancer Initiative" to invest in
efforts for cancer prevention, detection, diagnosis,
research and care. His son Beau died of brain cancer.

5) He supported same sex marriage ahead of his boss.
6) He supported the protection of women against violence.
And much much more. The following link clarifies things
further:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/joe-biden-entering-2020-field/story/?id=61078936

The BBC tells us that:

" Fact checkers say the President of the United States
has made more than 10,000 false or misleading statements
since coming to office. Whether its the size of the crowd
at his inauguration, the pay rise to the military, or where
his father was born. Donald Trump often says things that
are untrue. And he doesn't rush to correct them, even when
they're outright fabrications".

Ruth Alexander tells us that Donald Trump "has a long record
of falsehoods that even stretches back to his school days".

Foxy quotes the bbc fact checkers. No wonder she is so deluded and loves lies so much.

Joe Biden listens to his advisors.
Donald Trump abuses, insults and fires his
advisors.

One is a person of substance. The other is
a circus. Substance over style. Truth over
lies and falsehoods.

America's choice.

It's all about showmanship not democracy.

Foxy,

It's hard to go past Biden, especially if Trump happens to be the only viable option.

Sportsbet has Biden at $1.45 and Trump at $2.80, which places Biden as 'unbeatable'.

It will be interesting to watch how Biden transforms the White House to fight the pandemic and civil unrest that Trump was impotent to do anything about.

I think he will be tough on China, Russia, Iran and North Korea militarily but will soften up on trade.

runner, you support Trump who took drugs developed from aborted fetus. I take it you are now pro abortion, provided they benefit those you support and yourself. Care to comment.

Mr O,

What you've posted makes sense.

I personally can't see any other alternative.

But, don't forget this is America. Where showmanship
dominates. It's all an illusion. That's why we ended up
leaving the country after close to ten years. And then
things were better. We could no see a future there
nor did we like the direction the country was heading.
And we did not want our children growing up there.
I bless our decision to return to Oz daily.
Would not live anywhere else!

Hi Paul,

I feel so sorry for poor misguided, misinformed
runner. He's supporting a sewer and talks about
"draining the swamp". Sad, so sad.

Paul1405,

You have just thrown runner into a spin with that question.

Don't expect to get anything logical out of him.

If this was America he would probably start chasing you around the block waving an automatic firearm at you.

"I personally can't see any other alternative." Don't tell me Foxy, has Ronald McDonald pulled out of the race?

Yep, good old runner, he ain't what he used to be.

That's the $64 question for you runner, you support Trump who took drugs developed from an aborted fetus. What you say to that?

Chris Lewis said- CM, my problems started when I complained about being called an anti-Labor scholar.

Answer- It seems that you were contradicting communist propaganda and ideology. ie. refuting their central argument. They can't have that happening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Graham_(programmer)

You should upset the communists more.

Maybe on some pre-print journal.

It's a right of passage to fail the first time on a noble cause.

They will try to attack you on mass... you can't let them win... but it would be wise to be strategic..

I note that the drug Donald Trump has been rubbished over is now being seriously tested, including in Australia. Once again, the man has jogged lethargic, pig-headed and immovable people into doing something that might help everyone. If the drug is not a goer, nothing has been lost; and, bigotry and hatred of one man trying to improve the lot of millions of people has been called out for what it is.

The Trump-haters would rather see people die than give him any credit.

I note Foxy's list of Biden's achievements are all his political career. He has no skills outside the political bubble. His family has made millions from merely being in politics from deals with other countries. Trump on the other hand has made no money from being in politics even as a President he forgoes the salary, but his businesses continue to operate and he is still developing businesses outside his Presidential position. President Trump has never taken a salary in office." That is 100 percent true. Under 3 U.S. Code § 102, the president's annual salary is $400,000. For the past two years, Trump has donated his salary to government agencies.

http://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/verify-yes-trump-has-never-taken-a-presidential-paycheck/65-de8190fd-d0a2-4f35-90b1-5eb44026a3e2#:~:text=President%20Trump%20has%20never%20taken%20a%20salary%20in,press%20briefing%20with%20Press%20Secretary%20Sarah%20Huckabee%20Sanders.

pseudo-Josephus,

Trump inherited everything.

The founder of the Trump business empire was his grand-daddy Frederick who built the best little whore house in the Yukon.

I bet he doesn't put that on his CV.

Biden's daughter's diary shows he showered with his daughter when she was a child is the reason why his obsession with touching young girls.
________________________________________________

Mr O your comments show your immaturity. Trump has since developed and retained his empire by his own ability. tps://www.history.com/news/donald-trump-father-mother-ancestry

On October 7, 1885, Friedrich Trump, a 16-year-old German barber came to America on a one way ticket. Donald Trump is the grandson, of immigrants: German on his father’s side, and Scottish on his mother’s. None of his grandparents, and only one of his parents, was born in the United States or spoke English as their mother tongue. (His mother’s parents, from the remote Scottish Outer Hebrides, lived in a majority Gaelic-speaking community.)

His skills in running businesses and his contributions to community developments gives him superior ability to get things done. He does not need politics to give him status which career politician Biden does.

Josephus,

Quite right. Biden can't lay a finger on Trump in any area of human endeavour whatsoever.

Josephus,

Trump is making a fortune out of his presidential
position. And as is the country's top 1%.

He does not pay taxes - and refuses to disclose
his tax records - so please don't tell
us how generous the man is. You sound like a character
from "Old Tucson".

Chris,

Winston Churchill once stated:

" You will never reach your destination if you stop and throw
shoes at every dog that barks"

Chris,

The following link may be of interest:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-14/asio-warned-anu-of-china-communist-donor-links/8616014

Josephus,

This link might clarify things for you:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/20/donald-trump-is-a-good-president-but-only-for-the-top-1

Foxy, If Trump accepts his $400,000 salary he would have to pay tax on it. His businesses pay millions in tax. On his personal tax he pays $750 and there is not illegal avoidance of tax. Please post the evidence he is making a fortune out of being President. That statement is merely a bluff. There is no evidence for your claim. Joe Biden's Family has made hundreds of millions out of his vice Presidency.

pseudo-Josephus,

Is it really worth talking about Trump anymore because in ten days from now the guy will be the lame duck president?

He had a chance to make something of himself as the President and he let the opportunity slip through his fingers and the history books will refer to him as the Clown President.

Goodbye Trump! Glad to see the last of you.

PS I'm already on my way to the betting shop to pick up my winnings.

Yeah we know Paul you obviously cheering the Hollywood murderers and deviants holding up grammy's that they might not have won had they not murdered their child. As usual you think this is the higher ground.

Quite a list of Biden 'achievements' there from Foxy. As usual highly selective.

What about these:

* Almost thrown out of Law School and forced to repeat first year because he was found to have plagiarised papers

* His presidential run in 1987 "ended ignominiously amid repeated examples of plagiarism and outright fabrication."

* Appropriated parts of Neil Kinnock's life as his own

(quite a lot of plagiarism in Joe's life....no wonder Foxy is enamoured of him...birds of a feather)

Speaking of Byrds...

* Called former KKK "Exalted Cyclops" leader Robert Byrd a "mentor," a "guide," and a "friend." Byrd once led a KKK chapter with 150 members. Biden delivered the eulogy for Senate segregationist Byrd.

* Biden sponsored and helped write the 1994 Crime Bill, which even he now acknowledges was a mistake. Actually it was a disaster for blacks, with black incarceration rising dramatically. Trump has now largely fixed Joe's error with new figures showing black incarceration the lowest since 1994.

* Falsely accused the man involved in Biden's wife's car accident of being drunk. But showing true bravery (/sarc)he only made the accusation after the man had died.

But to Joe's credit he has accumulated a fortune. True, he did do it by selling out his country and forcing his family to pay him 50% of their earnings. But credit where credit's due (/sarc).

And they say Trump's unpresidential.

Foxy, thanks for the lecture, but no thanks.

And no, I don't give a damn about the ANU and what it does with China.

runner,

You are a dark and troubled man.

What led you down this path of irrationality and bellicosity towards your fellow man?

Normally I would prefix you with a good old fashioned pseudo- but in your case I think I better make it psycho-.

Psycho-runner - sounds like a good name for a song. No, wait a minute, I'm thinking of 'Psycho Killer' by Talking Heads.

runner, answer the question and stop trying to deflect. Trump took drugs derived from an aborted fetus. If you agree with that then you must agree abortion is okay if its to benefit people like you and Trump.

Hunter Biden is a pedophile with images of seven underage girls on his laptop and the daughter of Delaware Senator Coons daughter, whom Joe Biden whispers to at her father's swearing in ceremony.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/delaware-gop-senate-candidate-says-sen-chris-coons-daughter-featured-hunters-laptop/

Like father like son. That is why Biden because his past keeps quiet and does not take questions from the Media at Rallies.

runner (and drooling sidekick) Jose-Puss from ARIZONA

You can only look up to Pro-Life Evangelical PASTOR JOEL Hunter WHO IS VOTING FOR BIDEN

Watch and learn boyos http://youtu.be/hG_wuBRsWk0

Hi Chis Lewis

Yes, like you, I too find it difficult being a Centrist.

I also found Uni lecturers tended to be of the Left.

I don't know what impact the Lib-Nat Coalition policy of bumping up Arts Degree fees will have on Uni Academics' political leanings.

Cheers

Pete

Pete,

the guy I complained about calling me anti-Labor gave one of the most biased lectures I ever heard. Complete rubbish.

After the lecture, in tutorials, I asked the students what they thought of the lecture.

Of the ones that spoke, they all agreed it was biased and not true.

Biased academics think they influence; they don't.

The students just go away and get jobs, and join the club calling the humanities biased towards the left.

The problem is the teachers; they are simply not competent in understanding the world and why there are legitimate representations made by left and right.

To put it simply, they are mostly bozos.

Chris Lewis,

What subject areas are you talking about?

Chris Lewis- Thanks for your comments. Kudos.

To Plantagenet- Centrists are effected by the Overton Window.

In order to stay in the centre they need to constantly move to the left (or more Locke Liberal position).

It's a form of Communist Salami Tactics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_tactics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

"The Overton window is the range of policies politically acceptable to the mainstream population at a given time. It is also known as the window of discourse. The term is named after Joseph P. Overton, who stated that an idea's political viability depends mainly on whether it falls within this range, rather than on politicians' individual preferences."

"In 1998, Noam Chomsky said: The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum—even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.[10]"

Hi Chris,

I also had a run-in with one of my lecturers who gave
me an F on one of my essays and it would have affected
my over all score. The topic of the essay was AIDS and
it was a controversial issue at the time. I had done a
great deal of research on the topic including interviews
with people suffering from AIDS and an author who'd written
on the subject.

Anyway I asked that my essay be looked at by other lecturers
and if they thought I deserved an F. Fair enough. My essay
was examined by other lecturers. I ended up with a High
Distinction for it. The lecturer apparently was a well
known homophobe and had allowed his extreme views to
influence the way he marked students instead of being objective.

I was glad that I had plucked up the courage to question that
mark he had given me.

There you go.

We all have our experiences - good and bad at Uni - and I guess
it all depends on us how we handle them.

Foxy,

What was the subject the essay was for?

Fxy, stop lecturing me.

Your situation hardly compares to mine, so give it a rest.

there you go, speaks for itself.

one lecturer gives an F, another a HD.

As i said, most are bozos

Now back to the topic...

mhaze said I was being selective in the information I gave on Biden.

NO, I merely responded to Josephus's claim that Biden had no
experience for the position of president and quoted Biden's
experience.

mhaze then went on to give us information on Biden - but as is
his method of operation - he did not give us the full picture.
He never does as Steele has pointed out consistently. He's
very selective in what he chooses to present and the insults he hurls and at whom.

This is taken from the web - "Biden acknowledged he had
plagiarised in a paper he submitted while a first-year
law student in 1965 (yes folks in 1965)."

"He admitted that while chairman of the Senate Judiary
Committee at a crowded news conference to try to dispose
of burgeoning charges of plagiarism - past and present that
have threatened his candidacy".

"He said his 1965 "mistake" was neither intentional nor
"malevolent"and the faculty of the Syracuse University
Law School had allowed him to repeat the course and the Dean
later vouched for his high character".

Ïf anyone tells you Joe Biden isn't a straight arrow. I'd
be very surprised", he said.

"Robert Byrd served as a US Representative for the state
of West Virginia from 1953 to 1959 and as a US Senator from
1959 until his death in 2010. Biden did deliver a eulogy for
Byrd - July 2nd 2010. So did other prominent political
leaders such as Pres. Barack Obama and Pres. Bill Clinton".

"Biden has twice publicly stated that the driver of the
truck that struck his wife's vehicle killing her and
the couple's daughter had been drinking."

"No definite evidence exists to prove or rule out whether
the other driver had been drinking and belief that drinking
had contributed to the crash was repeatedly prevalent
among the local community and not something Biden made up
on his own."

Biden did not make the accusations after the man had died.
Biden did apologise to the daughter and family for the
accusations.

60 minutes showed that Biden sleazed all over a woman, junior staff member.

Me was shocked. I thought all Democrats were good guys, except Kennedy, Clinton ...

Chris,

I'm not lecturing you. Get over it.

Also it was more than one lecturer who changed the mark.
It was a panel. And obviously they're not all bozos.

Mr O,

The subject was sociology.
And the lecturer who gave me the F - was Middle-Eastern.
Possibly he had difficulty being objective on the subject
of homosexuality and AIDS.

Josephus,

Trump refuses to disclose his tax records. So we have
no way of knowing what he does or doesn't pay. You're
simply quoting what the man says. Fact checkers say
that the president has made thousands of false statements
since coming to office and he has a long record of
falsehoods stretching back to his school days.
So give it a rest with the BS.

Fact check has also found no evidence to confirm Trump's
claims that Joe Biden used his position as VP to enrich
himself or his son and Trump has not provided any.

Please read the link I gave earlier about Trump being a
good president but only for the top 1%. The author -
Joseph E. Stiglitz "is a Nobel laureate in economics.
university professor at Columbia University and chief
economics at the Roosevelt Institute".

Foxy,

I've never heard of anything like that before.

Doesn't sound like he was much of a sociologist if he behaved like that.

I know of borderline cases but nothing like an F v HD.

I never experienced that myself because I only ever did enough work to get a D.

But it is strange because papers are graded according to the standard set of guidelines that all markers must comply with so that it is an even playing field irrespective of the marker's background and prejudices.

Very strange indeed.

Maybe he was drunk and eating pork pies when he was marking your paper. You know what those Middle Eastern types are like.

Chris,

I also saw the 60 Minutes episode.

The thing is - no notes or documentation or police
reports have been found on the alleged incident
and her account has been denied by long time Biden
staffers whom she worked for at the time.

Also details of her account have been inconsistent and
she's changed her story over time. In 2019 she came
forward with an account of Biden touching her shoulder
and neck in a way that made her feel uncomfortable but
she never mentioned sexual assault.

She may have a political motive.

Mr O,

I was a very shy student and it took all of my courage
to fight for a re-evaluation. I'm glad that I did.
As for what Middle-Eastern types are like?
I had no way of knowing back then. I was not into
politics at all and simply thought the man had not
done the right thing. Besides -I thought I had to fight for
what I thought was a good paper. I believed in it.

sorry Foxy, I believe her.

Chris,

Fair enough.

However, I prefer to wait.

Hopefully, sooner or later the truth will surface.

For now - these are very volatile political times.
And who knows who's doing what for what end.

Regarding Foxy's comments on Joseph Stiglitz...

I enjoyed Joseph Stiglitz' work on inefficient markets and the discrediting of the efficient market hypothesis but like anyone he has his limitations. He is a person who believes in the religion of Locke Liberalism. I believe that upon analysis he is inconsistent on political issues as are we all. He doesn't really appear to have the skills to talk of politics perhaps "even though" or "because" he spent twenty years in Africa.

Perhaps our esteemed Chris Lewis and Mr Opinion are perhaps better qualified than Joseph Stiglitz to discuss politics- though even they humbly admit their limitations.

CM,

I am only a glorified labourer.

Mr O, well he describes himself as a genius.

Joseph Stiglitz told Fortune magazine that Trump
"doesn't get Econ 101". The Nobel laureate in
economics is more than qualified to write on
Trump and his administration from an economic
perspective and why Trump is a good president
but only for the top 1%.

I suspect that I've almost reached my posting number
so before I go here's the extraordinary background
and work experience of Joseph E. Stiglitz for any
one interested in why this man is more than qualified
to write on the Trumpster.

http://www.brittanica.com/biography/Joseph-Stiglitz

Good Onya Foxy

For holding back these members of Trump Darkness

As they hold onto his.

See the Trumpster now, with the white bandage on 'is head http://youtu.be/7xnNhzgcWTk?t=3m44s

:)

Chris Lewis,

I have never called myself a genius.

There are others who are better qualified for that task than I am.

Foxy- Just wondering if you had a chance to review Stiglitz' Nobel winning views on "the efficient market hypothesis"? :)

.

It was a joke Mr O.

as is Foxy's adoration of the leftwing elite.

I just watched 4 corners.
What a biased hatchet job that taxpayer funded crap was.
That show should be defunded if it's going to promote opinion over facts.

Every single part of that program followed a Trump Derangement Syndrome narrative, and it pedaled lies and deliberately manipulated half-truths.

Shameful, they need their funding pulled.

Dear Armchair Critic,

Oh stop with the bulldust mate. How on earth 4 Corners thought it was okay to give the Trumpeteers equal time I just don't know but they certainly weren't being biased.

The worst American president in living memory doesn't deserve the 'even handed' treatment the ABC just gave him.

He look like he may well be a single term President and deservedly so. How much he and his band of thieves ae held to account will be the making of breaking of the US.

We need programs like '4 Corners' otherwise all of the low-life scumbags of the world will steal us blind and walk all over us.

Do we really want a world in which dishonest and untrustworthy politicians, bureaucrats and business people are the norm.

The ABC is of the people, by the people, for the people (to steal a line from Abraham Lincoln - Or was it Trump, given the great revelation by Trump the other day that he is the best thing to come along since Lincoln?)

I thought the Four Corners show was reasonably balanced; gave a great deal of time to Trump supporters.

One week to go. Will be a very interesting election

It's not a case of Trump being the worst President in US history.
It's more a case that the US political system has officially reached it's 'used-by' date.

Armchair Critic,

In what ways has the US political system reached its used-by-date as you claim?

I will give Biden one thing. He is not nearly as spiteful and hateful as many of his followers. He does not even know who is running against. What a pitiful sight! He needed his wife to remind him.

psycho-runner,

The thing you are noticing in Biden is that he is a statesman.

Trump - clown; Biden - statesman.

Keep saying that to yourself and before you know it you will imagine that you have had an epiphany.

'The thing you are noticing in Biden is that he is a statesman.'

yeah Mr o

exactly why the state needs to be drained.

Runner,

You mean Trumpf's state ? Trumpf's Swamp ? Trumpf's Sewage Ponds ? With Trumpf as its biggest and smelliest turd ?

Only eight days to go ! And then it will be all sweetness and light.

Once Biden can control the pandemic perpetuated by Trumpf, the Half-Wit, Fair-Weather President. ["It's not my fault" whimper, whimper.]

So what will Trumpf do between the Election and the Inauguration on January 20th or so, eleven weeks of unchechecked pandemic catastrophe, when he is still technically President, with all the obligations and duties - including in relation to the pandemic - of a President ?

Joe

Foxy wrote:"However, I prefer to wait.

Hopefully, sooner or later the truth will surface."

This as concerned Tara Reade, the women Biden raped back in the 1990s. Foxy also wrote of the incident:

"The thing is - no notes or documentation or police
reports have been found on the alleged incident
and her account has been denied by long time Biden
staffers whom she worked for at the time.

Also details of her account have been inconsistent and
she's changed her story over time."

Compare and contrast that with the Kavanaugh accusers a year ago. No documentation. Story constantly changed. Denied.

But then Foxy completely believed the accusers. No waiting for the truth to surface back then. No waiting backing then. No, back then the man was toast as far as Foxy was concerned. Have her views matured or is it just that the accused are from different sides of the spectrum?

Still, I can't imagine why anyone would think Foxy and her views are hypocritical

Joe if you are either to stupid or deceitful to know that a cold you need to be tested for in order to find out if you had it is not a pandemic. Nice to see Amy Barret being inducted on Hilary's birthday eh? Oh well I am sure your namesake won't know what's going on. He does think he is running against George whoever. You hatred and tds has certainly exposed your lack ability to discern black from white.

Dear mhaze,

What rot.

How is Christine Ford in anyway comparable to Tara Reade?

Reade's record speaks for itself;

“Reade has misrepresented herself and her life experiences on numerous occasions, including lying under oath and in court proceedings. Specifically, she has lied about holding a bachelor's degree from Antioch University, invented a secret "fast-track" bachelor's program (at Antioch) from which she supposedly earned her degree,[2] and falsely stated that she served as a visiting professor at Antioch. She misrepresented her educational background in her law school applications, allowing her to attend law school without the required bachelor's degree. In addition, Reade is currently under criminal investigation by prosecutors in Monterey County, California, for lying under oath about her educational credentials, in her appearances as an expert witness on domestic abuse.”
Wikipedia

That isn't to say the assault never happened but in comparison to the testimony from a woman who passed and FBI lie detector test there is no equivalency.

runner

Even you may learn something by watching:

"This Evangelical Pastor Voting For Biden Says the GOP is a "Religious Cult"

just 6 minutes, at http://youtu.be/QkYssyr656E

Enjoy!

I watched the 4 Corners report last night (26/10/2020)
"The End of Trump" by Michael Brissenden who "took a look
at the key states and voting blocs that
will be crucial to the election outcome".

Brissenden pointed out now Trump
"Four years on, he's presiding
over a nation that is bitterly divided with
a troubled economy
and a population ravaged by the COVID-19 pandemic".

" As the campaign enters its final days, the President's most
committed supporters are fervently hoping this is not the end
of Donald Trump".

Yet other Americans are looking to leaving the country if
Trump wins. As one person stated - "Any room for Americans
in Australia?"

So folks, there's the possibility of hundreds of thousands
of American Democrats are thinking of moving to Australia
and joining the Labor Party, especially African Americans.
(smile).
_________________________________________________________________

runner,

I'm sure that you'd love to see the Statue of Liberty replaced
by a statue of Donald Trump holding an upside down Bible.
See his statue
replace that of Abraham Lincoln, and see his face on Mt
Rushmore. Many people are beginning to believe that after
the debacle of the Trump presidency - anything is possible in
America.

'Yet other Americans are looking to leaving the country if
Trump wins. As one person stated - "Any room for Americans
in Australia?"'

No anyone holding the putried violent marxist doctrines stay away. We also don't want any Hollywood deviants holding up trophies boasting of killing their babies. Then again you could move to Victoria as you will feel at home after being in failed democrat states. OH that's right you hypocrites refuse to live in the places you create your sewers in.

psycho-runner,

There is an upside to Trump handing over the presidency. He will be able to pursue a career as a stand-up comedian.

Just think, you will be able to catch his comedy gig at a local theatre near you.

Runner,

I would support your right 100 % to stay living in your own sewer. Perhaps alongside Trumpf.

You have a hateful, amazingly absolute Black-and-White view of the world: everybody is either unquestioningly 100 % on your side, or unquestioningly 100 % on the side of communist/Marxist/socialist/anarchist/terrorists ?

No, my fellow human-being, there are all manner of shades in between. If you looked, you could even find absolute ratbags who are even more ratbag than you: they would think that YOU were a communist/Marxist etc.

Quite amazing: you fret about embryos and their right to life, but you couldn't give a stuff about 225,000 Americans, no more than Trumpf does. I think you're full of it, a complete fraud.

Joe

Dear runner,

What a sick little puppy you are. Australia has universal health scheme which your president and his corrupt band of robber barons don't want a bar of because they don't want to pay a cent extra in tax.

This is what they describe as marxist. So mate if you detest it so bloody much why don't you piss off over there. I would trade 100 democrats for you in a flash. You denigrate what we have in this country every time you open your mouth in support of your saviour Trump. You sully the very notion of being and Australian and I would be glad to see the back of you.

In fact if you would agree to emigrate I will buy you the ticket. There you go, grab the opportunity and leave us to our apparent misery.

runner,

You'd better renew your passport because if Trump
should win - there will be a huge influx of those
Yanks coming here so be prepared to move to the US.
Imagine you can then wallow in the lovely mud that's
been drained by your idol!

As for Victoria? Hillsong has bought the iconic Festival
Hall in Melbourne for $23 million. How about those
Victorians?

PS:

runner,

I'd also contribute towards your ticket to the US.
The sooner the better!

Foxy,

Perhaps we can crowd-fund Runner ? First-class ? One-way ?

Joe

' would support your right 100 % to stay living in your own sewer. Perhaps alongside Trumpf.'

'psycho-runner,'

'What a sick little puppy you are'

'runner,

I'd also contribute towards your ticket to the US.
The sooner the better!'

what a tolerant lot the twitter sewer produces.

"but in comparison to the testimony from a woman who passed and FBI lie detector test"

...but in comparison to the testimony from a women who was trained by a former FBI agent as to how to beat a lie detector test....

There you go...fixed it for you.

Your welcome.

runner,

Trump is the twitter king.

So you're spot on!

Dear Steele,

The following link is worth a read:

http://www.vox.com/explainers/2018/9/27/17909782/brett-kavanaugh-christine-ford-supreme-court-senate-sexual-assault-testimony

It puts things into perspective.

runner,

I take it you support the aborting of a human fetus, but only for medicinal purposes, like saving the worthless hides of YOU and TRUMP.

"One of the drugs taken by Donald Trump that he has touted as a potential “cure” for coronavirus was developed using human cells originally obtained from an elective abortion, a practice repeatedly denounced by the president and many of his supporters."

"The cells used to develop the drug are known as HEK-293T cells, a line of cells used in laboratories. The cells were originally derived from an embryonic kidney after an elective abortion performed in the Netherlands in the 1970s."

Still wimping out on this question.

Dear Foxy,

Thank you. Not an edifying process was it.

Dear mhaze,

Credible link please. Not that is really steps her any closer to Biden's accuser.

Dear Steele,

I am concerned about the democracy of America
if this man gets re-elected. We really can't
blame the man - as he is what he is. But what
on earth has happened to the Republican Party?

Dear Foxy,

I think that the Republican Party, some time after Lincoln, became a party which took white-supremacism for granted, a smug notion that - as one of the fascists said recently, "We built this country".

But it has dawned on them that Blacks and Hispanics are growing in proportion to the white population, and they certainly don't like it. Hence the Wall (very figurative). Hence Trump's talk of cleaning out the damn suburbs for white women. Hence the rabid xenophobia against other countries. Hence the isolationism.

And over the past few decades, the white working class has not only fallen back, technologically made redundant, or been displaced, but the Democrats haven't provided any solace for them, so they have also been sucked into the 'permanent-white-rule' perspective of the Republicans.

So there is a certain 'circling of the wagons' of the Republicans. Very dangerous times.

Love,

Joe

Dear Joe,

Thanks for that. Yes. these are dangerous times.
Very dangerous times. Hitler may be resurrected yet.
We can only hope that enough people
turn out to vote to upset the apple-cart and put this man
where he belongs with his mates and he's got plenty of choices.
Russia, Beijing, Israel. He could expand his Trump Towers
in all three places and again not pay taxes.

cont'd ...

Dear Joe,

Don't forget to watch episode 2 of 3, "The Trump Show"
at 8.40pm tonight on channel 9/90.

Hi Foxy,

Okay, I'll try not to retch ;)

Love,

Joe

Steele Redux said- "Australia has universal health scheme which your president and his corrupt band of robber barons don't want a bar of because they don't want to pay a cent extra in tax. This is what they describe as marxist. So mate if you detest it so bloody much why don't you piss off over there. I would trade 100 democrats for you in a flash. You denigrate what we have in this country every time you open your mouth in support of your saviour Trump. You sully the very notion of being and Australian and I would be glad to see the back of you."

Answer- Australia has significantly different circumstances to the US. The US as I understand has a much larger proportion of people in "non traditional living arrangements". Up to 10% as I understand- along with all the problems of employment and psychological problems and health care issues that go along with that.

For this reason perhaps the potential burden of universal health care on the tax system is likely to be much greater than Australia.

The rich usually find ways to engage tax planning professionals so the middle class end up paying for the cost.

To me ethnic conflict from both many sides have led to this situation- the communist blank slate strategy is just causing greater complexity and conflict and mistrust and trench warfare. The result of this ideological battle between the traditionalists and the ruling Locke Liberals is constant fear in the middle class.

It reminds me of the situations in different parts of the world at different times in history- these countries are then judged based on so called universal principles without acknowledgement

The reason why Steele Redux is pushing a certain Communist Locke Liberal/ Blank Slate ideology is because he is pushing a certain ideological zealotry. I always encourage those that push communism and socialism to read a little more widely.

It seems Foxy thinks it's ok for one ethnic group to replace another at least in the case that White American's are replaced by Latino's and Afro-American's.

Myself I believe that every culture needs their own space and need to run their communities according to their own beliefs. Foxy probably believes I should be killed or wiped out for my beliefs.

And she calls me a Nazi. Even Nazi's didn't have a plan to take over the world but Foxy does- through her universal blank slate principles.

Canem Malum,

Australian Multiculturalism is all about establishing and maintaining disparate ethnic groups that mirror Asia, all aimed at creating Australia as an Asian nation-state.

I'm sure Foxy is well and truly on board with this and the Asianization process that has taken place during the Great Asianization Period (1980-2020) in Australian history.

Dear Canem Malum,

Virtually every other developed Western nation has a form of universal health coverage and you are trying to make the argument that the richest nation on earth simply can't afford it? And to be advocating for it makes me a communist?

You were riffing, making it up as you go. Non-traditional families? Ethnicity? What rot. Utter speculation without a single piece of evidence.

How about you put up a decent argument based on even the tiniest amount of evidence that backs up the line you are attempting to run.

And if you think the billionaires in the US enriching themselves by over 600 billion dollars through this pandemic is an acceptable way to run a capitalist society then you really should move there.

Canem Malum has expressed quite a few concerns.
I would politely like to re-assure the gentleman.

Trade, travel, and telecommunications have made the
nations of the modern world more interdependent than
ever before. The human population is spread among a
series of sovereign independent states. And no country
would be willing to surrender its sovereignty to
any international body. Therefore, any concern about
a world government or some world order is not realistic.
And those thinking it's going to happen will be
disappointed.

We have the example of the United Nations
and the difficulties faced with international peacemaking.
Because the compliance with the resolutions of the UN and the
rulings of its World Court are voluntary. No country
is willing to surrender its sovereignty.
The UN is actually most effective when
the superpowers are able to agree.

As for one ethnic group replacing another in any country?
Hitler and Stalin to name just two - tried that. It's not something that any rational person would support.

Also, believing that someone should be killed or wiped out
for their beliefs? Extremists exist everywhere. Fortunately
sanity usually prevails for most people.

As for who is or is not a Nazi? That's between that person
and their God

Ethiopia is building a huge dam on its Nile, 2000 miles upstream from Egypt. It will provide electricity to Ethiopia and Sudan and maybe South Sudan, as well as manage irrigation waters across huge areas of Ethiopia.

Egypt is very hostile on the idea, since it depends on the Nile waters so much.

So what does dumb-arse Trumpf suggest ? Hmmm, Ethiopia needs to be careful, otherwise Egypt can bomb that dam.

Such brilliant diplomacy ! Such tact ! Such finesse !

One problem: Aswan, Egypt's dam on the Nile. If A can bomb B, then B can bomb A.

Did Genius-Man think of that before he flapped his cat's-arse lips ?

Joe

'Still wimping out on this question.'

actually no Paul. I think you know clearly my views on murdering the unborn. I also believe strongly the biblical view of marriage. Obviously Trump has failed in both these areas. Unlike the democrats who promote and celebrate murdering the unborn and perverting marriage and using identity politics (just read the the mad Foxy and Joe raving about white supremicist and their fake concern for life), at least Trump is pushing back at the destruction of western culture and killing the unborn. He also has given the finger to the idiots in Paris and is more concerned about the US than the totally lying corrupt UN. Trump also had more black Americans in work than any other president before China exported their virus. You however will join the lying narrative of your marxist mates at CNN as you usually do.

pseudo-mouth,

Ethiopia is not building a large dam on the Blue Nile. But the Chinese are building one there if that's what you mean.

And it has more to do with water politics in the region than irrigation and hydropower.

It will control the headwaters of the Blue Nile which is a major source of freshwater for Egypt and Egypt could become dependent on the whims of China for its large-scale cotton growing industry.

Which of course feeds into China's economy as a source of raw materials for the manufacture of clothing.

Which is in competition with India and other developing nations.

Getting the big picture now?

runner,

Move to the US - you'll be so happy there.
Well for a while at least!

Join your idol and his supporters. Save all of
the unborn, the white supremacists, help to stop
the perversion of marriage, defeat those black
terrorists, get rich, -
and get rid of all those Marxists at CNN.
Think of how well you can do God's work in that
country led by your Messiah.

As for Western culture?

Saving that may have to wait. If Trump
loses the election - he may end up leaving the country -
and it will be out of the West that he'll be running -
because they'll be out to get him. And it won't be the
Marxists at CNN either but the FBI and other federal
agencies who are just biding their time until the
fraudster loses office.

You may be lucky, if caught - they may deport you
South of the Border - where life is more colourful.
And there are even more Marxists to attack.

cont'd ...

runner,

I'm sure that you must have heard Trump recently declared
he's the "chosen one" only second to Jesus.

Now isn't that a revelation?

psycho-runner,

All the best with your new life in America and I even wrote a song for you so that you would remember us:

I can't seem to face up to the facts
I'm tense and nervous and I can't relax
I can't sleep 'cause my bed's on fire
Don't touch me I'm a real live wire

Psycho Runner
Qu'est-ce que c'est
Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-far better
Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away oh oh
Psycho Runner
Qu'est-ce que c'est
Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-far better
Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away oh oh oh oh
Yeah yeah yeah yeah!

You start a conversation you can't even finish it
You're talking a lot, but you're not saying anything
When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed
Say something once, why say it again?

Psycho Runner
Qu'est-ce que c'est
Fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-far better
Run, run, run, run, run, run, run away oh oh oh
Psycho Runner
Qu'est-ce que c'est…

PS In case you haven't worked it out I'm calling it Psycho Runner after you.

Watch out for the "shy voters" for Trump if you all must come over hot and sweaty about US politics over which you have absolutely no say or influence whatever.

Misopinionated,

As usual, you've missed the point: if, as Trumpf hints, Egypt can bomb Ethiopia's dam, then Ethiopia can bomb Egypt's dam. And developed countries can sell arms to both sides.

Trumpf, the real peace-maker.

But Ethiopia has allies, as a Christian country: particularly Russia. So I expect Putin to summon Trumpf to Moscow once he's lost the election, and belt him around the ear. Sweet.

Try to keep up.

Joe

pseudo-mouth,

I don't agree with your premise.

I don't think it holds water.

:-) ha ha ha ha ha ...... "I don't think it holds water." ..... get it?

Hi Joe,

Putin won't have to summon Trump to Moscow if Trump
loses the election. He'll move there quicker than
you can blink.

I suppose the other possibility is - refuse to leave
the White House saying the election was illegal.
I'm sure Trump will come up with something nobody
expects. And he's got the Supreme Court he appointed
to rule in his favour - or at least stall his exit.

And his supporters will as always - allaud and those
here will laud hid efforts. You know what cheaters
those Marxists are.

Langston Hughes - American poet wrote a poem with
the title "Let America Be America Again", here's
a small smattering:

" Let America be America again
Let it be the dream it used to be
Let it be the pioneer on the plain
Seeking a home where he himself is free

Let America be the dream the dreamers dreamed
Let it be that great strong land of love
Where never kings connive nor tyrants scheme
That any man be crushed by one above

O, let my land be a land where Liberty
Is crowned with no false patriotic wreath
But opportunity is real, and life is free
Equality is in the air we breathe".

There's more at the following:

http://www.poets.org/poem/let-america-be-america-again

It was written in a different time but is still relevant
today.

Mr Opinion said- "Australian Multiculturalism is all about establishing and maintaining disparate ethnic groups that mirror Asia, all aimed at creating Australia as an Asian nation-state. I'm sure Foxy is well and truly on board with this and the Asianization process that has taken place during the Great Asianization Period (1980-2020) in Australian history."

Answer-

I'm not sure that there is much thinking in Australia's ethnic policy- it seems "short-term-ism".
You could be right that the interest groups are modeling Australia on nations such as Malaysia (and Thailand) with ethnicity balanced over three ethnic groups- Malay, Chinese, Indian's. It will be very interesting to see what happens there over the next few years. South East Asia seems to be ripe ground for Geopolitics- I'd suggest that this is something to be avoided.

Generally conciliation benefits the more powerful adversary- South East Asia should be working on forming allies with the west. The general reaction of the countries to the population explosion and military aggression in China and soon India shouldn't be concession. It should be in support of an international order that supports its long term stable sovereignty. With so many "homeless people" wandering around the world- detached from their roots- it's difficult to make an argument for long term stability. There should be more study as to what turns "people into global homeless" and what can be done to prevent them leaving their home nations. Maybe there could be an international trade tax on countries based on the roaming populations that certain countries generate.

Dear Foxy,

Yes:

"What happens to a dream deferred ?
Does it dry up
like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore—
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over—
like a syrupy sweet?

Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.

Or does it explode ?"

Let's remember that Trumpf is President, with all the obligations of that office (especially in the midst of a pandemic) until January 20th.

Of course, being an utter mongrel, he will take his bat and ball and go and sit, so to speak, in the stands, criticising Biden who will have no powers whatever to do anything - nor should he since Trumpf will still be President - until after January 20th.

Of course, sewer rats like Runner will applaud Trumpf and guffaw at the chaos of the epidemic. 'Yuk ! Yuk ! That'll show 'em !'

Very dangerous times for the US.

Joe

Good Morning Joe,

And what a beautiful morning it is here in
Melbourne. I'm going to the hairdressers
this afternoon and I'm really looking
forward to it. Plus having a cup of coffee
at the nearby cafe will also be great.
Small things I know - and hard as it's been
it has been worth it when you look at how
well Victorians have managed to keep the
numbers down compared to other places -
especially those overseas.

As for the re-election of President Trump?
As Scott Morrison stated - "Miracles do
happen", however we shall have to wait and
see

cont'd ...

I'm hoping Trump will lose.

And if there's sanity in the US - he will.

But I'm not making any bets.

Dear Foxy,

And his slogan will be "Apres moi, le deluge !" He'll wash his filthy hands of any responsibility for the virus, fold his arms over his chest and look the other way. I wonder if that's a form of treason, a gross and deliberate dereliction of office - could Trumpf be shot for that ?

And his brainless followers will snigger and caper, until they come down with the virus themselves. Couldn't happen to nicer people.

Oh hello, Runner, didn't see you there, hiding behind that church notice. How's your sniffles ?

Joe

Dear Foxy,

And his slogan will be "Apres moi, le deluge !" He'll wash his filthy hands of any responsibility for the virus, fold his arms over his chest and look the other way.

And his brainless followers will snigger and caper, until they come down with the virus themselves. Couldn't happen to nicer people.

Oh hello, Runner, didn't see you there, hiding behind that church notice.

Joe

Remember 'anonymous', the high ranking official within the Trump administration who wrote an opinion piece for the NYT detailing how he was just one of many in the 'resistance' who were working against Trump and vetoing many of his decisions. He later wrote a book along the same lines.

I recall a few here were all in on this hero of the resistance.

Well never mind.

It turns out the guy was a low level bureaucrat who couldn't make or stop decisions and lasted only a few weeks in that position. He sought revenge by writing utter gumph for the TDS masses. The NYT played along with his deception. The press, particularly in the US, is a disgrace. The guy currently works for CNN despite lying on air about his position.

But that's OK. Those who fell for this will quickly forget they were hoodwinked, or will rationalise it away. And then they'll wait breathlessly for the next unsourced bombshell which they'll totally believe.

BTW has anyone heard of Tony Bobulinski? You should make yourself familiar with him. You'll be hearing quite a bit from him if Trump wins even though the press and social media are trying oh so hard to hide his revelations from you....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zLfBRgeFF

Remember Trump's ex-lawyer - Michael Cohen. He worked
as Trump's lawyer for years and was considered to be his
"fixer". He's written a Trump book (done during his jail
term). "Donald Trump behaves like a mobster".

In a long cast list there are so many books now available
on Trump:

Bob Woodward - Journalist
John Bolton - Trump's former national security adviser
James Comey - former FBI Director
Andrew McCabe - Former FBI Deputy Director
Anthony Scaramucci - communications director
Sean Spicer - press secretary
Sarah Sanders - Spicer's successor
Chris Christie - first governor who endorsed Trump in 2016
Omarosa Manigault Newman - a contestant on the Apprentice
who later joined Trump's campaign and is now hated.
Anonymous - author and senior Trump admin. official -
who Trump calls a fraud and says he know who he is.
If the man is so unimportant - how come Trump knows him?
Carey Lewandovski - Trump's first campaign manager.
David Bossie - deputy campaign manager.
Cliff Sims - conservative journalist who served as
communications aide.
Mary L. Trump - Trump's niece.

On the law of averages - what are the odds that all these
people are all liars and frauds and that Donald Trump is
the only one telling the truth?

Just like putting lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig.
The same goes for giving a guy an orange face and a
comb-over - does not a president make.

IMO, Trump is not fit to be president.

But the question is whether enough Americans are prepared to go back to mainstream politicians, the very people that led them to Trump

Chris Lewis,

Half the voters in the US have voted early.

Even with the impact of the WuFlu I think that it is showing that a lot more people are voting this time simply because there are a lot of people displeased about having a clown for a leader.

Foxy,

The image of a pig with lipstick and a blond wig is a bit stomach-churning :)

I'm very worried about two likelihoods when Trumpf refuses to recognises the results of the democratic election of Joe Biden:

* that he will incite ratbag extremist white-supremacist groups to come out on the streets with their bazookas, to terrorise the US population and seize power for him in a putsch;

* that, even though he is effectively President until January 20th, he will abandon his obligations, take his bat and ball and retreat to the bleachers. Biden cannot take on any presidential powers until January 20th, so Christ knows what might happen in relation to the pandemic (which Trumpf's incompetence has magnified ten-fold) in the meantime. I don't think Trumpf or his brainless TDS myrmidons will give a stuff about any of that.

Joe

'I'm very worried about two likelihoods when Trumpf refuses to recognises the results of the democratic election of Joe Biden:'

I am sure Joe just like you were worried about 4 years of Russian collusion lies, Ukraine lies, media lies, pussy head tantrums.

And lets not forget that Trump was going to erupt the Middle East. I mean all those peace deals. Your biggest worry should be more egg splattered all over your face.

Yes, Mr O.

that is why Trump is out campaigning hard and talking up the supposed dodgy postal votes.

Looking forward to next week.

Dear Joe,

It is frightening and who knows what the Trumpster
will do if he loses. The man is so unpredictable.
We can only trust that rationality will prevail -
at least from federal agencies, the military,
Congress, and the Republicans in the Senate.
Surely there will be enough sane people to stand up
to this obnoxious jerk.

I wrote "Those who fell for this will quickly forget they were hoodwinked, or will rationalise it away."

And so it came to pass....I know you people too well.

Don't you just love people who claim they know
you so well? You can always find out amazing
things about yourself you never knew.

I think Trump is doing a good job despite the challenges. I wish him the very best for the election. We'll see what happens. The Lefties went crazy last election when he won-they've been going crazy recently- I'd love to see what the lefties do if Trump wins.

Loudmouth said- "Of course, sewer rats like Runner will applaud Trumpf and guffaw at the chaos of the epidemic. 'Yuk ! Yuk ! That'll show 'em !' Very dangerous times for the US."

Answer- So Runner is a sewer rat according to Loudmouth. I guess the government should kill Runner as a diseased Bubonic plague- it's a tool in the toolbox of human activity I guess. Maybe we should trap Runner and Trump (don't forget the families) and spray them with Sulfurozador- it's great to see the last seconds of suffering as the rat dies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubonic_plague#Prevention

Good on you "Comrade Loudmouth".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes#Estimates

"In 1994, R. J. Rummel's book Death by Government included about 110 million people, foreign and domestic, killed by communist democide from 1900 to 1987"

Hi

See newly created General Discussion thread "TRUMP TIPPED TO WIN ELECTION"

at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=9299&page=0

It sports lots of research for the Trump Win proposition.

CM,

No, vastly more people were killed under 'communist' regimes than you cite. More were killed BEFORE the War than the figures you cite. The final total - the current total - may be in the hundreds of millions.

The Soviet Union.

The various coups, 'revolutions', uprisings, etc. Great numbers 'had' to be 'extracted' for the 'good of the people'.

China; North Korea; Vietnam;

sundry Eastern European countries;

Cuba;

various African 'socialist' countries, Ethiopia, Tanzania, Benin, Guinee, Burkina Faso.

Bankrupt systems, hopefully never replicated.

Joe

Hi Chris,

On postal voting, here's an item about some of the dangers (surely predicted ?) of in-person voting:

http://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/10/28/world/covid-19-coronavirus-updates?name=styln-coronavirus&region=TOP_BANNER&block=storyline_menu_recirc&action=click&pgtype=Interactive&impression_id=56f91c90-1970-11eb-94cc-1188e9555ac9&variant=1_Show#the-virus-is-complicating-the-election-as-poll-workers-test-positive-and-voting-sites-are-closed

Wouldn't it be just so much easier, given that there is no extra hassle about fraud and postal voting, to open the voting - by post, with all the extra safeguards known to humanity - say a month earlier than the election day ?

The Yanks are weird: why hold an election in what may be early Winter in the northern-central states, and on a bloody Tuesday ? Obviously this would inhibit voters who have to leave work early, etc. Being naturally paranoid, it seems to me to be a cunning plan to discourage voters from turning out and exercising their democratic right to vote, one of their most fundamental rights in a democracy.

And again, the difficulties arising from that archaic procedure could be avoided by postal voting.

And let's pray that there are no early Winter blizzards on Tuesday.

Joe

I find it surprising that there are people like Loudmouth that espouse Communist principles or derivatives yet claim to be anti-Communist.

A rose is a rose.

But I guess many don't see the links that Locke Liberalism has with Communism.

Loudmouth seems to be well educated and worldly yet seems to have some form of abnormal perceptual astigmatism- perhaps this perspicacity can be attributed to the decline of the university culture- some have said Liberalism fosters a kind of anti-culture.

.

Why Yanks vote on the first Tuesday in November. Well it seems the "voters" were male property owners, and most of them were farmers. On completion of the harvest at the end of October, they had a big shin-dig on the Saturday night, Halloween, before the first Tuesday in November. Next it was in church on the Sunday, praise the lord and all that guff. Then they spent Monday in the horse and cart traveling to the voting place. Perfectly logical.

Later on it helped stop poor whites and Negros from voting, what's changed in Loopy Doopy Land?

CM,

As you write, " .... I guess many don't see the links that Locke Liberalism has with Communism."

No, I don't. Perhaps you could join the dots ?

For the record, I think that Marxist-type socialism, communism, whatever you want to call it, is a bankrupt, Utopian theory which has always been betrayed from the very outset by its implementers, for the simple reason that it is utterly impractical. It has never worked anywhere and its adherents have always resorted quickly to repression, often of its own hitherto loyal supporters, at the same time as their 'unchangeable' blueprint is being changed to accord with their power-realities.

But an adherence to notions of equality and justice has never been the monopoly of the extreme-'Left'. Where would you stand on those issues ?

Joe

Hi Joe,

The following might be of interest - I came
across this in my readings on John Locke:

" The philosophic justification for revolution in
modern times can be traced back to the "social
contract" theorists, John Locke (1632-1704). Locke
held that people had created government for the sole
purpose of guaranteeing their freedom. If a
government violated this trust, the contract was
broken, and the people had the right to rebel in
order to restore their freedom. The leaders of the
American Revolution were deeply influenced by
Locke's writings, and the Declaration of Independence
echoes his theory in the specific justification of a
people's right to revolt:

"We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men
are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator
with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these
rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving
their just powers from the consent of the governed...
That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of
these ends it is the right of the people to alter or abolish
it and to institute new government, laying its foundation
on such principles and organizing its power in such form
as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and
happiness".

" Unlike a coup d' etat - the restricted use of force to
replace one set of leaders with another,
usually consisting of military officers -
a revolution generally involves mass
violence. There are certain conditions that give rise to such
a situation as we know. Several factors have been
identified - where a revolution under those conditions is a
distinct possibility - from widespread grievance, rising
expectations, blockage of change, loss of legitimacy,
military breakdown."

Sociology 101. Interesting ay?

Hi Foxy,

So CM is asserting that the American Revolution was communist ?

I just can't see that :)

Of course, like you, I'm sure, I would have supported the rights of the Americans to revolt against unrepresentative British rule, and set up their own republic, given that the implicit [Lockeian] contract between the British Crown and the American people had been betrayed. But I'm not sure how that makes us supporters of communism.

But I'm sure CM can join the dots. Patience with some of our colleagues is the key :)

Joe

Dear Joe,

Karl Marx is another interesting social thinker.
His influence has been immense. Millions of people
accept his theories with almost religious fervor,
and modern socialists and communist movements owe
their inspiration directly to him. Yet it is
important to realize, however, that Marxism is not
the same as communism.

Marx would probably be dismayed at many of the practices
of communist movements , and he can't be held
responsible for policies pursued in his name a century
after his death. Even in his own lifetime, he was so
appalled at the various interpretations of his ideas by
competing factions that he declared, "I am not a
Marxist".

Of course Karl Marx's views, like those of anyone else,
were deeply influenced by the social environment. Marx wrote
in England at a time when a large and impoverished working
class laboured for a handful of wealthy capitalists who
owned the factories and other means of production. The
working conditions were awful. Marx assumed that this
situations would inevitably lead to revolution.

But Marx did not forsee many of the changes that later
occurred in industrial societies, such as the growth of a
large middle class. No revolution has ever occurred in an
advanced industrialised society.

Joe, it will therefore be interesting to see what happens
in the United States if Trump gets re-elected. There are
so many grievances that are being ignored, and where
his administration is not paying any attention to minorities -
or COViD pandemic, or racial problems, will a revolution
take place as many are predicting no matter who wins if
nothing is done about these problems immediately.

The US is a ticking timebomb.

Hi Foxy,

Yes, either Marx wrote once to Engels, or the other way round (or Engels wrote to someone else later), asking about the nature of the English working class, maybe in about 1880 (or maybe 1890). Whichever one replies, something like,

'Well, England is a strange country: it has not only a bourgeois aristocracy and a bourgeois bourgeoisie, but is well on the way to developing a bourgeois working-class.'

I suspect that Marx lost a lot of his illusions about the success of communist revolutions after the defeat of the Paris Commune in mid-1871. Nearly 150 years ago now. So there's been a lot of water under that bridge since his time.

Of course, although he would never have admitted it, Marx's theories were Utopian, and therefore doomed to disaster from Day One. If not well before.

Joe

Dear Joe,

Many also believe there has been a general tendency
for societies to move from the simple to the complex,
although they don't necessarily equate this evolution
with "progress" toward something better.

Marx, was looking at industrial and agrarian societies dominated by small elites. Abject poverty among the working class and the rural peasants that stretched across Europe from Ireland to Russia was the reality. Marx and Engels may have being idealising a Utopian world of communism, but their communist ideology was in the right place, at the right time.

The Capitalist was forced to acknowledge that to grow his wealth, he had to expand the consumer middle class, and that involved some higher degree of wealth distribution. With that came a growing need for mass education to fuel an even more complex Capitalistic society. Education and increased middle class wealth was a double edged sward for the elite. The growing middle class started to demand citizen rights, such as a political say through limited democracy. The middle class was organising the working class through labour organisations, not only to benefit themselves but to benefit all in society, the dawn of the altruistic social conscience. Czarist Russia was a state where the elite was unwilling to make the necessary changes to accommodate the middle class, the result was the Russian Revolution of 1917. It was not at first clear that the Bolsheviks were going to succeed, but they did through Lenin's superior leadership.

The US election is now only days away. And judging
from news sources the distinct impression is that
no matter who wins, the country is still going to
be divided.

However, as one ex-pat living in Sydney stated:

"How any sane, rational person looking around what's
been happening in the US in the past 4 years would think -
' I want another 4 years of this. I don't understand".

Hi Foxy,

But I suspect that we will be looking into the soul of America, or at least those of very many Americans, in this election. I suspect that a lot of implicit, taken-for-granted, smugly-assumed white hegemony, monopoly, supremacy, whatever you want to call it, will crop out of much of the explanations about why people vote for Trumpf.

Of course, there a touch of this, at least, here in Australia - the unspoken assumption that whites, Anglos, alone will rule forever Australia and that anybody from any other group, or 'tainted' through birth or marriage with some other group, is forever going to have just slightly fewer rights. And, of course, especially if they are female :)

In other words, while the 'left' may have its totem-pole of which groups have more rights to attention than others, i.e. which groups have suffered more than others, the right also has always had its totem-pole, geared much more to the status quo and long-term power-structure.

Just saying :)

Joe

Dear Joe,

Thanks you for your perceptive comments.
Food for thought.

The question is: should a Nation adopt exclusively one culture and value system. America is divided because it accommodates multiple cultures that each try to rule with their own exclusive value systems. For example: Should China's Atheistic Communist system be confined to China and not interfere in other countries? Should India be confined to Hinduism? Should Pakistan be exclusively Islam. Should America and England be retained as Christian? Should Israel be retained as Jewish?
The problem now through open borders given to multiculturalism, finds Christianity being despised and Islamic Socialism combined with BLM violence is rising as acceptable by those that can easily murder others lives, starting with publicly funded abortion.

According to a 2017 study done by the Institute for Social Policy, “American Muslims are the only faith community surveyed with no majority race, with 25 percent black, 24 percent white, 18 percent East Asian, 18 percent Arab, 7 percent mixed race, and 5 percent Hispanic”

I don’t expect those with communist views to change their views but at least others should be aware of the arguments and determine if these are in their best interests.

The subject of why Locke Liberalism and Communism are related is a big question but hopefully I’ve some of the reasons below.

http://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/hobbes-locke-and-social-contract

English Civil War 1640’s (Puritan Parliamentarian Cromwellian’s vs King Charles I Royalist’s), Man is naturally good vs bad. Locke’s Principles – Life, Liberty, Property- equality.

http://sites.google.com/site/dofiar99/what-were-john-locke-s-ideas-beliefs

http://www.history.com/topics/british-history/john-locke

“Locke also developed a definition of property as the product of a person’s labor that would be foundational for both Adam Smith’s capitalism and Karl Marx’s socialism. Locke famously wrote that man has three natural rights: life, liberty and property.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emile,_or_On_Education

“a treatise on the nature of education and on the nature of man written by Jean-Jacques Rousseau”
“Emile was banned in Paris and Geneva and was publicly burned in 1762, the year of its first publication.[2] During the French Revolution, Emile served as the inspiration for what became a new national system of education.” “Emile attempts to "find a way of resolving the contradictions between the natural man who is 'all for himself' and the implications of life in society"” ”every society "must choose between making a man or a citizen"[9] and that the best "social institutions are those that best know how to denature man, to take his absolute existence from him in order to give him a relative one and transport the I into the common unity"”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libert%C3%A9%2C_%C3%A9galit%C3%A9%2C_fraternit%C3%A9

French Revolution Principles- Liberté, égalité, fraternité 1793

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Emile-Durkheim

“The left-wing Commune of Paris, which took over the French capital in 1871, led to senseless destruction, which appeared to Durkheim’s generation, in retrospect, as evidence of the alienation of the working classes from capitalist society.”

“He perceived around him the prevalence of anomie, a personal sense of rootlessness fostered by the absence of social norms. Material prosperity set free greed and passions that threatened the equilibrium of society.”

“the crisis of 1886 over Georges Boulanger, the minister of war who demanded a centralist government to execute a policy of revenge against Germany, was one of several events that testified to the resurgence of nationalism, soon to be accompanied by anti-Semitism.”

“In Durkheim’s view, ethical and social structures were being endangered by the advent of technology and mechanization.” “He did, however, endeavour to formulate a positive social science that might direct people’s behaviour toward greater solidarity.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principles_of_Communism

“During the early 19th century, the effects of the Industrial Revolution inspired utopian socialists to theorize improved forms of social organization based upon cooperation, as opposed to free market competition... sought to overthrow the existing European social order ... One such organization was the League of the Just, which formed in 1836 by splitting off from an ancestor, the League of Outlaws, which had formed in Paris in 1834 ... to bring about their own ideal society ... referred to as the "new Jerusalem"... the League was not composed of industrial wage labourers or proletarians in the Marxist sense, but instead of journalists, political radicals, and craftsmen ... structured itself in chapters divided into local cells, typically of five to ten individuals."
"In November 1842, Engels and Marx met each other for the first time in Cologne, at the office of the Rheinische Zeitung, a newspaper that Marx was editing at the time.[6] Nothing came of this first encounter, but during 1842-43, both had separately contacted the League, though neither joined."

In the history of politics there have been stages- Tribal, Feudal Monarchy, City State Democracy, Representative Locke Liberal National Democracy, Global Liberalism, Communism- they loosely reflect the increasing scale, complexity, population, and technology. They each have their systems to manage society but in a way that is unique and usually limited to their civilisation. There are other influential systems that have developed alongside including taxation, economics, business management (eg. Taylorism), democracy.

Liberalism is about 500 years old- Communism is about 150 years old- and parallel the impacts of the Renaissance (1400-1500’s), Enlightenment (1600-1700’s), and the Industrial Revolution (1700-1800’s)

John Locke (Liberalism, 1640’s) tries to clinically separate government from traditional society and it’s bottom up evolution from extended families. Locke similar to many was a man of his time- living through the English Civil War- a period of notable unrest due to long standing conflict between the English monarchy and the parliament.

John Locke’s ideas were fashionable during the 1700’s and probably led to the French Revolution.

Communism (1800’s) tries to address issues of inequality highlighted in Locke Liberalism (1600’s) by codification and aggressive idealistic tactics in the Industrial Revolution. In a sense Communists are impatient Locke Liberals. They see the economic and social benefits of mass production but convince themselves that destruction of traditional society is necessary by revolution- rather than the necessity of Traditionalism and Mass Production being a paradox of nature to be balanced by community.

The literal meaning of liberalism is “freedom”- in a Lockean sense- is not free in detail. In history there has been two main understandings of freedom- the first is the Aristotelian (300BC) then in the 1600’s John Stewart Mill created the concept of “negative freedom”.

There are two types of liberalism- social and economic.

In a sense “Social Liberalism” is a sort of “weak communism”- uses the state as a vehicle to bring about communist ideals of equality. Jordan Peterson says “value creates hierarchy creates inequality”- so equality is unachievable especially in mass culture.

Economic liberalism- believes that everyone should be able to use their money and their labour in a way that best benefits themselves. This is related to the “Efficient Market Hypothesis” in Economics. Stiglitz in his Nobel prize winning paper “disproved” both strong and weak forms.

Both communism and liberalism- are against culture and traditional communities.
Communism- Cultural Hedgemony, Blank Slate “Tabula Rasa” Theory
Liberalism- (Patrick Deneen/ Alexis de Tocqueville) Liberalism fosters a sort of anti-Culture, Blank Slate “Tabula Rasa” Theory. Liberalism requires a sense of upward mobility to motivate participation that is predicated on continuous growth- but this doesn’t necessarily achieve the objective of equality- it may even reduce equality- even at the cost of freedom

Both communism and liberalism- Global universalist principles, equality of outcome (strong form of equality)- rather than equality of opportunity- (weak form equality)

Both communism and liberalism- Global Academic top-down (perscriptive) solutions to problems and causes. Rather than bottom-up (Traditional forms of government).

Both communism and social liberalism (new left, Marcuse- Trotskyite)- From those with the ability to those with the need.

Both communism and liberalism- industrial based systems treating global society as a soulless factory.

Communism- Saw culture as the way that elites control the masses- they believed that to create equality- it was necessary to destroy culture. (Cultural Hedgemony). Contemporary Liberalism doesn’t say this explicitly but it seems implicit in Blank Slate Theory. This is embodied in Liberalism’s relationship with religious, national, cultural, ethnic, family, gender identity.

Both Liberalism and Communism- Try to create a global order so that those against such an order will have nowhere to escape and will be forced to comply or die.

Both Liberalism and Communism- There is a tendency for a very small minority of the population in government in both systems. In tribalism a relatively large proportion of the group is involved in governing the group. In US Democracy there are/ were measures to keep power at the local level- though these aren’t perfect- in a sense these localist principles contradict Locke’s attempts at universalism- despite his inspiration of the Declaration Of Independence and the US Constitution.

“Before Liberalism” the view seems to be that the role of the state was to protect the state from external forces- “after Liberalism” the role of the state is seen to be protection of equal rights due to the rise of representative democracy through “mass” “democratic” institutions such as the English Parliament. Aristotle talked of “a tyranny of the masses”- Alexis de Tocqueville talked of “democratic despotism”. Equality and Freedom??

Too many people is the problem. In the past the industrial revolution required many people- production has been delinked from people but consumption hasn't. Equality is a problem when the mass of people create scarce resources. The mass of people is also important for defense of the nation- maybe this is no longer the case.

I watched the documentary on Biden and Trump on SBS on Sunday night looking at their lives from a leftist view point. The closing statement was: This Election will be about personality not policy.. This indicates the shallowness of American minds of the left, its about feelings that they perceive and not facts that impact their lives.

Dear Canem Malum,

Why on earth are you banging on about communism? Why do you think Americans lobbying for a affordable health care which will be a shadow of what we enjoy in this country deserve the label communists?

Your world view has obviously become so utterly distorted by your Trump Derangement that you are making very little sense.

Time for a rethink.

The illegal immigrant problem in the US seems to be much higher than in Australia. They can't feed and cloth and house and treat them all despite what insurgent communist propaganda is fed to them. They need to round up the key communist ringleader traitors in solitary confinement with only access to a library of non-communist literature.

Dear Canem Malum,

You really have been reduced to a little automaton sitting in the corner speaking drivel. Real fruit loop territory my friend.

Communist propaganda being fed to illegal immigrants
in the United States?

Really?

And the CIA and FBI and other federal agencies are allowing
this to happen? Why aren't the country's federal agencies
and President Trump doing something about this outrage?
Aren't they denying Russian hackers and Russian influences?
So how come propaganda is getting through?

Or is this fake news and another one of those hoaxes
the US president is consistently talking about?
We need to see some evidence of this please.
Or is this just the usual rantings of our resident
poster - the keyboard warrior of the anti-communist
brigade?

Yep - it is probably from someone who sees communists
everywhere - it is seriously time for that poster
to seek - a psychological
analysis - get some serious professional help.
It's too late for a re-think that Steele has recommended.

Take a look at this person's posting record - no matter what the
subject or issue may be - his posts will always find a way to
connect the discussion to communism. I mean - Lord love a
duck - give us a break!

Have you ever just looked at someone or a situation and
just thought - "SERIOUSLY?"

The "them" I was referring to was the authorities of the US. Not the illegal immigrants. My suggestion with sincere respect is that perhaps you could read more than you write. I often think this myself when I find myself in error. Though everyone makes mistakes. Thank you for your feedback Foxy. Hopefully you will be more interesting in future. I can't judge you by my standards but I try to be interesting and feel somewhat ashamed when this escapes.

Canem Malum,

You said - regarding illegal immigrants :

"despite what insurgent communist propaganda is fed to them"

I responded with:

"Communist propaganda being fed to illegal immigrants in
the US?"

It was pretty straight forward.

There was no error.

My comments stand. And you should seek professional help
regarding you obsession with communism. It's not healthy.

We now have those denying the influence of communism from China in America! They are blinded by emotion. In case you did not realise it; China is pushing their brand of communism in Australia as in America. Communism is the workers paying for all services and benefits. It also is common beliefs controlled by the State, so denies any diversity of beliefs and opinions. The State educates what you are to believe. They have this view of only one world view now arising in Australia denying personal opinion as in America, though we have a multicultural population.

Josephus,

Australia is not America and hopefully never will
be.

Anybody watch the Melbourne Cup today?

I'm ashamed to say this is the first time in ages that
I missed it. Totally forgot it was even on.

However, for anybody interested - "Twilight Payment"
led for most of the race to win ahead of "Tiger Moth"
and "Prince of Arran".

This is the 7th Cup victory for owner Lloyd Williams
and 2nd for trainer Joseph O'Brien.

Yay!

Don't forget to watch the final episode 3, of
"The Trump Show" on channel 9/90 this evening.
I think it's around 8.30pm.

They say its the most powerful yet.

Well folks it's almost all over. The day has
finally arrived for Americans to decide who
they want as their leader. We may know the results
today - or we may not. Either way, I hope that
people will be able to come together no matter
what - and accept the final outcome no matter what
it may be. That sanity will prevail and that a healing
process can unite and not further divide.

Lets pray for a United States of America. Not a divided
States.

Stay well.
Take care.

America's postal Vote system is flawed, as there is evidence of ballots being back dated and delivered in bulk supporting Biden. Postal Votes should be received in the Electoral Office by Election Day to be a valid Vote. Only Americans living overseas postal Votes should be given time to be received.American service men were able to get their votes in weeks before the Election.

Proud Boy Jose'

"as there is evidence of ballots being back dated and delivered in bulk supporting Biden." Trump spouting fake news PBJ.

"Postal Votes should be received in the Electoral Office by Election Day to be a valid Vote." Every state has it own system, If the vote is post marked by election day, then the Post Office should be given time to deliver it. You are just nit picking, and looking for pathetic ways to get your man Trump back in. Accept it, Americans woke up to Trump, and kicked his arse.

Americans are not Trump he represents Policy as does Biden. You like half of Americans vote on personality rather than policy. I know you support Green policy; that accepts the murder of infants and the destruction of the Black family unit. Your support for a weak leader who kow-tows to China and Iran and One world Government. The stress of the position will kill Biden in the first two years and the Green New Deal of Kamala Harris will become President; destroying the oil and gas industries in America.

Paul, the report is thousands of Postal Votes were fill in in the name of recently deceased persons.

The die is cast, the race is run, the rejoicing is plain, the rebuilding has begun.

Get over it, and get with the program.

Congratulations to the winners.
The defeated should now retire gracefully.
Democracy returns; the Republic is saved.

What a wonderful day for not only America but
the world!

PRESIDENT BIDEN!

Democracy has indeed been saved.

The trespasser will be escorted from the White House.
At long last.

Josephus,

So there is clear evidence of fraud, you're saying ? All any electoral commission has to do is check those fraudulent votes against death notices ?

So we can now wait for that re-examination of voter details, one way or the other.

Joe

Proud Boy Jose' you being a far right extremists, I expect nothing less from you than a link to a white supremacists bile site that is run by a similar mind to yours. His claim you agree with is utter rubbish!

BTW; I am a member of The Greens, and make no secret of it. Unlike you who is obviously a member of some micro extremist cell. You even tried to pass yourself off as an American, what are you, an Australian, American something else. Like others on the forum, you are too ashamed to openly declare your affiliations.

St Josephus,

Asseritur gratis, negatur gratis. Provide evidence, don't just assert.

Hasta la vista, baby !

So, what will Sooky-baby do now ? Take his bat and ball and stomp off home ? Will he concede ? Will it matter ? No.

Oh, happy day !

Joe

If Trump (or others) believes that the election wasn't executed correctly then he has the responsibility to say something make his claim. And then the investigation and should be managed administratively with integrity- without political interference