Hi! I am a PhD student completing my research project at Curtin University, and I am exploring people’s thoughts on and preferences for Australian identity.

I am looking for those with an interest in Australian identity to share their perspectives in an interview lasting 45 - 60 minutes.

You must be over the age of 18, speak English, and have Australian citizenship.

Interviews will be conducted online (i.e. Skype, Zoom, or Facetime), and you will receive a Coles Group gift card for your time and efforts!

If you are interested or would like to receive any further information, please private message the page, email me at jack.farrugia@postgrad.curtin.edu.au
or call me on 0483 321 840.

Curtin University Human Research Ethics Committee (HREC) has approved this study (HREC number: HRE2019-0541)

I let this one through, although technically it is spam, but I thought it could act as a valuable conversation starter in our forum. Feel free to contact the researcher, but why not collect and leave your thoughts here before you talk to him?

Hi Jack,

How much is the Coles card worth?

There is no single trait, or typical characteristics that identify Australians as such. Other than the fact 25.5 million people, young and old, rich and poor etc etc, live geographically in close proximity with each other on this mud heap of a planet.

The fact we don't over identify is one of the reasons multiculturalism has worked so well. Imagine how demoralising it would be for new arrivals if we were all standing around in Little Johnny Howard's green and gold trackie dacks, corks swings from our oversized hats, repeating over and over; "Bonza mate, you beauty, up there Cazaly!" With our first question to a new arrival being; "Do ya think the Pies can take the pennant again this year?" Fortunately in 150 years the other 7.5 billion people in the world have had the good sense to steer clear of Aussie Rules football, not counting the Irish who have their own bastardisation version of the game. Incidentally I expect Ireland to take the silver medal when Aussie Rules is made an Olympic event in the year 3064.

The only other uniquely Aussie trait I can think of is the bloke who asks "How much is the Coles card worth if I do your thing?" No less than 50 bucks I expect! It its only 10 I say how Un-Australian, that't the sort of dosh a Kiwi would offer!

Paul,

I would not be contributing to such research for anything less than $25.

My interest in being paid is tempered by my willingness to contribute at a reasonable price.

I have sent him a text to find out.

Paul,

I remember the times some aussie businessmen would openly declare their disdain for greeks and italians for haggling on the price of goods.

I think now most people do it, a process aided by online source comparisons.

traits can be shaped by new peoples, and by economic circumstances

"I think now most people do it, a process aided by online source comparisons." Chris. And you think this was a good thing Chris?

This is an example of how a great & unique culture has been destroyed by being asked to accept far too many migrants, far too quickly, swamping what had developed to the best of all cultures ever.

There is no longer such a thing as an Ozzie identity, & we are much poorer for that.

Chris,

The Coles Gift Card is valued at $24.99 so you will miss out if you hold out for $25.

Hang in there, your chance will come one day.

We used to have standardised assimilationist views
of what it meant to be "Australian". Today that's
contested with the acceptance of diversity and choice
over all aspects of lifestyle, culture, and religion.
Multiculturalism as an official government policy has
led to the imagining of a multiplicity of identities
in Australia.

Anyone of us could describe ourselves with a multitude
of different identities. Those identities may be
cultural, ethnic, religious, gendered, class-oriented or
ideological. They are as varied as our imagination.
Yes there is a prominent language and the political and
cultural institutions that govern Australia
are absolutely critical to keeping harmony
and tolerance.

Within an institutional framework that preserves tolerance
and protects order we can celebrate and enjoy diversity in
food, in music, in religion, in language and culture.
But we could not do that without the framework which
guarantees to enjoy diversity.
In today's Australia - the religious,
cultural, and ethnic complexity of our
society is particularly diverse.

In the midst of this diversity - there is an elusive
"national identity" Can it still be described from
an Anglo-Celtic male viewpoint? Most of us would say no.
Sure we have our national symbols and national cultural
stereotypes - that we all recognise as being "Australian".
But a "national identity"? as such is probably an invention.

Foxy,

We are all Asian now.

Any overseas visitors to Australia will tell you that. If you cannot see it, they can tell you.

We are now all the product of the great Asianisation program (aka Multiculturalism) of the past four decades.

Dear Jack,

One suggestion for you.

Instead of having interviews via SKYPE - why not
have it via ordinary telephone instead, where the
identity of the person remains anonymous. After
all what you want is only answers to your questions.
You'd get a better response from people most of
whom would probably
prefer to remain anonymous.

Just a thought.

Jack,

What field are you doing your research in? Sociology? Anthropology?

Dear Foxy,

«Anyone of us could describe ourselves with a multitude
of different identities. Those identities may be
cultural, ethnic, religious, gendered, class-oriented or
ideological. They are as varied as our imagination.»

Right on! All these "identities" are nothing but imagination!

Where from this strange habit of identifying with properties of our bodies and circumstances?

I have a culture, I am NOT a culture.
I have an ethnicity, I am NOT an ethnicity.
I have a religion, I am NOT a religion.
My body has a gender, I am neither this body not its gender.
I might have a class, I am NOT a class.
I have an ideology, I am NOT any ideology.

This is why I stopped answering surveys.
They keep asking such idiotic questions: "Are you Male or Female?"
Obviously I am neither. If they want to ask about my body (but why?) than they ought to ask about my body, not about me!

And now this fellow "researcher" would like us to imagine that we were a continent (i.e. Australia).
Perhaps I rather imagine that I were a steam boat?

Look Mr. Farrugia, we need to park our bodies somewhere, in my case and in the case of most of my friends here, it happens to be in this continent of Australia. This has nothing to do with my or anyone else's identity. Need a proof? Suppose I moved my body to another continent - does this suddenly make me someone else than who I were when my body was in Australia?

Dear Yuyutsu,

I think you would make an excellent subject for
this PhD candidate. You would give him a
different insight and perspective - which would
be a bonus to his thesis. After all he is after
various thoughts on Australian identity - and
you obviously have very strong feelings and
opinions and would contribute quite a lot.

Give it a go. You just might enjoy the experience
and you'd be adding something to research.

Yuyutsu,

You can stop guessing. You are Asian, just like the rest of us.

Our identities are largely tied to who we belong to. We are all children of Adam to start with (unless you are idiotic to believe apes). The last Adam (Jesus Christ) offers identity as children of God to those who believe and call on His name. Thankfully their are people from all tribes and all nations that have taken up God's offer.

runner,

That's because you have a religious view of the world.

I have a scientific view of the world which says that we are the product of a diaspora of homo sapiens who left Africa about 60,000 years ago.

'I have a scientific view of the world which says that we are the product of a diaspora of homo sapiens who left Africa about 60,000 years ago.'

certainly have a lot more faith than me Mr O.

runner,

You are the one with the faith.

I'm the one with the knowledge.

Stone the crows, strike me lucky! I find myself agreeing with Hassy.

"This is an example of how a great & unique culture has been destroyed by being asked to accept far too many migrants, far too quickly, swamping what had developed to the best of all cultures ever."

Yep, the Aboriginal people would agree with you wholeheartedly Hassy. Just hanging out peaceably for 50 or 60,000 years, minding their own business, not bothering anyone, even the Poms. 26th January 1788, ship loads of Pommies arrive, unannounced, full of the pox. They then proceed to set up camp in the Blackfella's backyard, paying no rent, just help themselves. To make matters worse they invite their relos and mates to come on over, plus they ship loads of the ones they don't like, inviting them to feel free to set up shop wherever they like, and they never go home. To make matters even worse the uninvited move the Blackfella out into the back shed, and take over the main digs for themselves.

Dear Runner,

«Our identities are largely tied to who we belong to.»

They say that when one turns to God, one receives a new heart and spirit:
"Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me" [Psalms 51:10]

"identity" however is about who one is - WHO is the one to receive this new heart and spirit when turning to God? Surely you do not mean that when one changes their owner(s), say when they turn to God through Jesus Christ, they actually become someone else?

Yuyutsu and runner,

Yes, you can be Christian and Asian at the same time.

Looks like my message is finally getting through to people:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/08/australia-morrison-china-war-longer-inconceivable-200805063316361.html

Well, we chose to be Asianise ourselves so in for a penny in for a pound.

Looks like you all want to give this spammer what he wants without getting the Coles card. Mugs.

Mr O, I think anthropology and sociology are silly arts subjects.

just my opinion.

The Goaf & his mad group killed off whatever Australian identity was.

jack has not responded to my text.

looks like I miss out on a Coles cash card.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dAq7e4EyJs

Here is what I call an educated Australian Identity !

Dear Chris,

Did you try actually ringing Jack?

I'm sure that he's probably busy - but would
be grateful for your input. After all you've
been in his shoes. Don't give up just yet.

I've looked up Curtin University in WA. It looks
like a fabulous place.

Aw Chris, that is bit harsh. I like anthropology.

While I agree most of the latest anthropology on Oz Aboriginals is more fairy story than science or fact, some of the older stuff is a good mystery read for a cold night.

Newly found extensive structures built over 10,000 years ago, & evidence that things like the Spinx may be of similar age make interesting reading, & very good light relief from the troubles of today.

Yuyutsu

'Surely you do not mean that when one changes their owner(s), say when they turn to God through Jesus Christ, they actually become someone else?'

'Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17

Phil,

It's good to see you like anthropology.

Who is your favourite anthropologist?

Hasbeen,

The humanities has become so specialised, i tend to gravitate to subject areas that should encompass all aspects of humanity.

At Monash, my favorite subject was Australia and the World (politics).

l could not stand subjects which tended to bitch about whose approach to inquiry was best.

And i cant stand studying some stupid theory that explains jack ....

After my first year, i ran away from anthropology and sociology because they bored me to tears.

I had enough of studying India's caste system and kalahari bushmen.

And Freud simply annoyed me.

I am only interested in issues, not some clown's theories.

The Chinese see Australia as an Asian nation according to this news article in the SMH:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/australia-an-asian-nation-say-chinese-20091201-k3vq.html

Chris,

I was initially trained in anthropology but pursued sociology as a postgrad because the scope of sociology is all-encompassing.

I also did an MA in history because it complements anthropology and sociology.

I would like to do another MA researching a topic that covers everything (excluding the vocational subjects like engineering, medicine, law, architecture, accountancy, etc. because these one just does to get skills needed to get a job to make a livelihood; couldn't imagine anybody studying these out of interest unless they are a bit crazy.)

Dear Runner,

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."

I understand, but this relates to "things", now the old impure things you had have all gone and been replaced by wonderful new ones. Once you turn to God, you have a new body, a new mind, a new heart, a new soul, etc.

But here we were discussing identity - that means WHO it is that now received all the nice shiny new things: is it not the same you?

Chris,

Just a word of warning on Mr O. I think all his claimed credentials are fictitious.

A small anecdote...A little while back one thread devolved into a discussion about the Athenian constitution. Mr O asserted with full confidence that the Athenian leadership was chosen by lot. Its the sort of error someone would make if they based their knowledge on some Reader's Digest style history or perhaps a misunderstanding of the history channel.

Anyway it was utterly wrong and completely bonkers. While some inconsequential positions were chosen by lot nothing approaching leadership was.

So I pointed out the error and offered a few facts that demonstrated the error.

Mr O's response wasn't to defend his claims with data. It wasn't to admit error.

Instead he suddenly proclaimed that he had academic credentials in ancient Greece and therefore anything he said about Athens was correct. He'd created these supposed credentials out of thin air as a means to defend the indefensible.

I assume all his other claims are equally invalid.

As another example, he claims to be an environmental sociologist. But the functions of that profession, require a significant understanding of population statistics. Yet he's the person who rejected all ABS data as second-hand tripe and relies on walking around various suburbs estimating Chinese populations in those regions. Its all rather pathetic.

Chris,

mhaze is a liar as well as being a know-all-know-nothing. I feel sorry for ignorant uneducated people like him.

they invite their relos and mates to come on over
Paul1405,
So, how did you get here then ?

Dear Chris,

Pay attention to mhaze.

Mr Opinion keeps bringing up his " qualifications"
in discussions. Even if his qualifications
were what he says they are that just means he's
arguing from memory,
not from understanding.
His insecurity is very loud.

Foxy,

The way you disregard the importance of formal credentials suggests to me that you do not have any qualifications worth mentioning.

Mr O,

Ah, but therein lies the rub.

Those who have - don't brag.
They have nothing to prove.

Something that you haven't yet come to realize.
Unfortunately.

Best you go back to your usual rants about China.
That's all you're capable of doing.

Long before I went to university I realised to listen to what people have to say rather than accept their credentials.

University experience merely confirmed I was on the right track.

Foxy,

No probs if you don't have any formal education worthwhile mentioning.

It's obvious you have done a good job at being self-educated by constant and wide reading. Bravo, well done.

Myself, I was just privileged to attend several of the country's best universities and gain four degrees.

I also attended some great schools

East Preston Primary.

Preston East High.

Managed to work at some overrated ones too, ANU at top of list.

Chris,

What was the thesis for your doctoral degree?

extent non-government actors have on tempering a govt's agenda. looked at Howard govt's first term.

this was turned into article criticizing what I feel are biased Australian scholars.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1467-8500.2007.00516.x

abstract
This article focuses on the interaction between government policy and public attitudes in order to explain why the Howard government was reasonably pragmatic given that it maintained enough popular support to win four successive federal elections from 1996, and why such a relationship is crucial to evaluating policy trends in Australia’s liberal democracy in terms of understanding both policy possibilities and limitations no matter how flawed or divisive certain policies may appear to be

Mr O says I'm a liar.

Here's a link to the pertinent post.... http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=8987#294199

Look at the posts in the thread that led up to this and then decide whose lying.

or who's lying...

mhaze,

You forgot to include that I called you are a know-all-know-nothing which I reckon given what you are is a real compliment.

Chris,
A fair dinkum Aussie is the bloke who gives another fair dinkum Aussie a $25 Coles card to buy another fair dinkum Aussies a bag of chicken chippies, its called mateship. I was going to do a bit of Rolf here, but he's not pc these days, so no Rolf. Chris where are my chicken chippies?

Mr O , my specialist field is clover! This sounds like one of those boring ABC quiz shows.

What was the thesis for your doctoral degree? I wrote a half dozen lines on the anatomy of the Wallaby Fly. That got me a high distinction with honours, KCMG and Bar. Now I have the right to wear a funny wig on my head, bet you ain't got one of those?

Dr Paul, well done

Mr Opinion,

I do have formal qualifications. And they are from
prestigious institutions of higher learning. But why are they
so important to you? None of us are asking you for your
CV. All we'd like to see is your contributing something
more to discussions than just questions about our
credentials. How about giving us your definition of
multiculturalism?

Paul, I am happy you refer to a hat on your head for your important study.

I never did, could not be stuffed going to the PhD ceremony

Chris,

Why did you choose to do your PhD in government / polsci?

Foxy,

If you do not want to disclose your qualifications could you at least say what your particular area of expertise is? Is it history, anthropology, sociology, philosophy, etc?

Mr O,

All of the above and more.

How about yours?

I"m actually into my 17th year of undergraduate studies of the mating habits of the three toed bunyip. If anyone wishes to aid with my research I am offering a $2 gift voucher, redeemable at your favourite Gucci Store. I suggest putting it towards your next purchase in the Pierre Cardin range. For ethical and privacy reasons my interviews will be conducted on the "Deadly Demon Roller Coaster" at Dizzyworld fun park. From the Deadly Demon we shall move on to the "Fires of Hell Ghost Train" where more in depth interviews will take place. BTW to protect your identity no visual or audio recording will be made of our encounters! This will take no more than 3 or 4 days of your time. If you can"t reach me on top of Mount Everest just drop me a line at jerkmail.com from where I will not reply.

Poor Foxy,

You've gone from having next to nothing to now having too much of everything.

Dear Foxy,

There are posters whose contributions I don't bother to read any more, Left, Right and whatever.

Life is too short to have to deal with fools.

But I do read yours carefully :)

Australian identity is many things. It depends on age, gender, class, location, civic interests, who we knock around with, what we drink. Nobody has a monopoly on it. It's not a formula or an equation, and it's always changing whether we know or like it or not. A bit like life.

Cheers,

Joe

Mr Opinion,

Your posts are not those of an educated person.

Dear Joe,

Our identities are what makes us unique.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the topic.

Here's a poem that I've used in the past but it's still
relevant today:

"Here's to the kids who are different
the kids who don't always get A's
the kids who have ears
twice the size of their peers',
or noses that go on for days

Here's to the kids who are different,
the kids who are just out of step
the kids they all tease
who have cuts on their knees
and whose sneakers
are constantly wet

Here's to the kids who are different
the kids with a mischievous streak
for when they have grown
as history has shown
it's their difference that makes them unique".
(Digby Wolfe).

Foxy,

Wow, Digby Wolfe ! I remember when he had a show on black-and-white TV (Misop, ask your grand-parents), around 1963. Hey, that poem is me !

Thanks, Foxy.

Joe

Dear Joe,

Thanks for telling us about Digby Wolfe.
I got the poem out of Goldie Hawn's biography.
Apparently Wolfe wrote it for the Goldie
Hawn TV special in 1978.

I simply love it.

I really think this is a rubbish thread - as far as a means of PhD study is concerned. Could well be a hoax?

But, some of the contributions are bonzer. Foxy and Joe, thanks - especially that Digby Wolfe poem, Foxy - brilliant.
I think I remember him on TV too. Long time ago.
Trust Foxy to pull me into this notionally ridiculous thread with that ripping poem!

(Of course, if this so-called PhD student is fair dinkum, he'd just better try to interview some of the larrikins on the Footy Show - if he wants the low-down on ockers and 'ridgi-digers'.)

Anyhow, thought I might contribute my last posting on the 'Multiculturalism' thread to this lot - just really as a means of sharing my ideas on the impossibility and uselessness of any attempt to tie-down the essence of the Aus 'Identity' - it is just such a 'coat of many colours', as we are all too aware, I am sure
Well, here it is. (For all the dinky-die 'drongos' out there.)

Multiculturalism - A society not only harbouring and tolerating a substantial cohort of people from many different national, ethnic, language and cultural backgrounds but actively celebrating their presence because of the zest, colour, diversity and inspiration their presence and example provides - to the betterment and advancement of the society as a whole. And, a willingness to continue to welcome people of diverse backgrounds to participate and contribute as equal constituents under the law of the land.
Nothing shakes-up predetermined notions, stereotyping and prejudice (and a lack of fundamental knowledge and experience) better than approaching new people and new ideas with than an open mind and a willingness to experience, to trust, and to evaluate objectively and in good humour.
Life is 'just a bowl of cherries' after all.

Howzat!

Yes Salty I thought it might be bit of a hoax from the start. So poke a bit of fun, why not. I always thought "Digby Wolf" was a made up name. Seems not, his name was James Digby Wolf, the son of Mr and Mrs Wolf I assume. Totally Aussies, born in London England 4th June 1929 and died in of all places Albuquerque, New Mexico 2nd May 2012 aged 83. We had some great TV entertainment in Aussie back in the sixties provided by "migrants", for those old enough who can't forget the talent of the Pom Gordon Chater, who along with three Aussies Maggie Dence, Noeline Brown and Barry Creyton made the hit comedy 'The Mavis Bramston Show'. A big talking point for many Australians back then was who is Mavis Bramston, we didn't need to know much in those days.

One of my favourites from back in the day was the American Bob Dyer and his quiz show 'Pick-A-Box', which mover successfully from radio to television. Made even more popular by the appearance of Barry Jones who was as dry as they come, but a general knowledge genius, along with Bob's personality they added so much to the show. The show wouldn't cut it with the fast pace of TV today. Then there was Bobs wife Dolly who introduced the contestants, forever the lady.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-F3vSrJIUQ

Mr Protractor,

How many degrees do you have, some say 180, but I think 360. Is your specialist field geometry? I knew a Mr Thermometer, he had lots of degrees, but unfortunately he got into some hot water and blew himself up.

Why Mr O?

As I already indicated, I wanted to do something that countered the left wing bias/rubbish in Australian politics that nearly always bagged the Coalition, including one which won four successive elections.

Dare I say it, I wanted to contribute some balance given that half of the population voted conservative, yet not abandon my social concerns.

Is that ok with you

Foxy,

I think you have been listening to LOUDmouth for too long.

Like you he also thinks he is an expert on everything. The only difference is that you can put what you know to rhyme.

Neither of you might have any credentials but I do acknowledge that the two of you are widely read and have good memories that allow you to retell what you have read verbatim. This is a talent but not an education.

Loudmouth was helped by being constantly enrolled at a university but unfortunately never completing anything. Your talent comes from your years as a librarian with plenty of time to spend ready anything and everything the library had to offer.

Nothing wrong with that. I admire self-educated people like you and LOUDmouth.

But please don't destroy this image you have created of yourself by telling us that you have expertise in everything. Leave that to LOUDmouth.

Chris,

Yes, I can accept that you had a good topic or thesis question to research but what was it that actually got you the PG scholarship to get into a PhD program?

Obviously it wasn't just your ideas or good looks that got you the spot.

You must have had something that qualified you because they don't just give out PG scholarships to every Foxy, LOUDmouth & Harry that walks through the front door.

Mr Opinion,

Nice try.

You are diverting once again.

Once again - you do not sound like an educated person.
And you have not given us your definition of multiculturalism.

Still waiting.

Foxy,

My most favoured definition is that multiculturalism is the acknowledgement and promotion of cultural pluralism.

Mr O, I got a PhD scholarship because I am good looking, muscular and athletic.

Could power clean 135kg, bench press 150kg and run 50 seconds for 400m

These factors overcame my receding hair line and my older age.

I also got First class honours and 100% distinctions and high distinctions for very subject in my four year degree; all HDs from 3rd year.

I hope that helps.

How else would you get a scholarship?

Chris,

Leaving the goods looks reason aside you are saying that you were granted entry to a PhD program on the basis of your 1st class honours degree.

What was the award and major for your honours work?

Dear Saltpetre,

I love your take on the Australian identity.
Life is a bowl of cherries - just make sure
you spit out the pits.

it would be lovely if people would do to each
other what spring does with cherry trees.
(smile).

MR O, unlike many Greeks, I try not to live in the past.

you should know how one gets a Phd scholarship. Pretty logical really. they go to be students who apply with best marks.

How else should they award scholarships? Throw a dart, draw a number?

Honours thesis was on need for high-tech manufacturing

Mr O, FYI, I don't think having any qualification makes any difference when talking about policy issues.

I would respect your many great opinions even if you only completed year ten.

Cheers

I hope you are prepared for the coming defeat of the filthy CCP.

The West is the best, forget the rest

Chris,

You make the mistake of only putting responsibility onto the CCP as if they are a bunch of baddies who have hypnotised the entire Chinese nation-state into doing their bidding.

It's like just blaming the Nazi Party for the conduct of the war by Germany during WW2. If that had been the case the Allies would never have had to turn to denazification programs after the war.

No, we must hold the Chinese nation-state responsible for what China is doing and stop just blaming one particular group. Like Nazi Germany, it is the leaders and their followers who should be held to account.

No mistake Mr O.

When the CCP sets up a surveillance states, crushes any dissent from people, and rewards loyalty to the party apparatus, you cannot blame the people.

Solid try though, but your argument is seriously flawed.

Do we have too many "smart" people on OLO?

BTW; Where is El Duce, one of the smartarses of the smartest arses.Oh dear me thinks he's gone bye-byes again.

Paul1405,

Only me.

Why, are you hoping to get more?

Oh! no Mr O,

I am not hoping to get more, there is only so much room in this sound proof closet.

..just make sure you spit out the pits.
Saltppetre,
yes, Education should heed that advise & the Public Service in general ! Imagine the unimaginable taxpayers money saved !

Indy, its a pity how a bloke from Lebanon, came to Oz in 72' got on the dole for 30 years, and then onto the Aged Pension ever since, he's such a drain on us poor taxpayers. Would you not agree?

Would you not agree?
Paul1405,
Yes, you can thank Goaf & his buddy Grasby for that !

And who do we thank for the high salaries and perks
of the politicians? Including the payments our former
PMs receive for life, plus the offices, and family travel?

Foxy,
You tell us. When Howard left Office his salary was $296,000/year. When Rudd departed it was $508,000.
As far as all other public funded salaries go, you might want to tell us which non union pushed through the undeserved pay rates !

As far as Australian identity in terms of a fair go, I think this general summary is a reality of the past.

Yes, we have a decent social welfare system, but the immense advantage of wealth is becoming more evident as more Australians will struggle to own a house and find well paid employment, at least based on recent trends.

High pay for politicians and public servants is another symptom of much less equal times.

Individual,

According to the Courier Mail, and the Freedom of
Information Act John Howard's salary was $330,000 as
Prime Minister. Since retirement he has cost taxpayers
$1m. He has a lavish Sydney Harbour Office. He is costing
taxpayers MORE in retirement than he did while running the
country.

Australia's second longest-serving PM - commanded an annual
salary of $330,000 in the job. But in his first year he has
raked up $1 million bill at taxpayer's expense.

The bulk of the spending went into a lavish city office
overlooking Sydney harbour.

He spent $416.952 fitting out the office in Martin Place,
including $2,510 on furniture . Taxpayer's also paid for
a $1,180 TV and video system and $3,622 worth of office
equipment and $6082 for newspapers and periodicals.

Mr Howard charged $7,739 for mobile phone bills, $1,432 for
calls from a home phone, $1834 on office calls & $4,300 on
office security.

Australia's 5 living former PMs (at that time) submitted
expenses tallying 3 million in one year the figures showed.
But Mr Howard by far was the biggest spender. He spent like
there's no tomorrow.

He spent another - $21,361 on airfares, more than $21,600 on
cars, and more than 318,000 on private staff.

I'll stop here. And you have the gall to criticize the
vulnerable in our society who need help?

Foxy,

But on the positive side it was John Howard who told Australia that there is no class system in Australia.

Mr Opinion,

For him there wasn't.

Foxy,

I saw him say it to an audience on TV and said to myself "My God that guy is just so dumb! Where did he get the idea that there is no class system in Australia".

Then it occurred to me that he was talking a lot with Tony Abbott at the time.

Yes it was the old two lawyers - two dummies routine.

Mr Opinion,

To most people - they are both irrelevant today.

Foxy,

Phil thinks John Howard and Tony Abbott are the best things to come along since electricity.

Mr Opinion,

My grandfather knew a man who was convinced that he
should not sit down because he had a glass bottom and
that if he sat on it it would break.

People sometimes have the strangest convictions.

Foxy,
Well, so Howard got what you claim but, considering how he handled the economy makes his expenses more fair than Rudd's considering he cost us several times more than Howard for what exactly in return ?
Having said that i don't think anyone in Australian Politics is worth more than $300,000/year.
Look at the salaries of Judges, Heads of Departments, Uni Chancellors etc.
At least rich people make money by us paying them rightly or wrongly what they offer us for sale. What do bureaucrats have to offer in return for our tax Dollars ?
Salaries in Australia are out of step with value in return !
Even the lowly Librarians are paid too much ;-)

Individual,

I've got very strong feelings about political salaries
and perks and their retirement benefits.
But I'm too tired to argue with you.

Enjoy your evening.

cont'd ...

Individual,

I've always followed my passion job wise,
not a paycheck.

And I believed in being so good, they couldn't ignore me.

I've always followed my passion job wise,
not a paycheck.
Foxy,
I admit I'm stumped, I always thought you were a Leftie !

Who agrees, Clive Palmer is Australia's biggest scum bag, not behind bars?

Indy, your opinion about what Little Johnny Howard gets, and Crudd gets, is clouded by your politics. Both Howard and Rudd did what they thought was right for Australia, and as ex PM's they are entitled to some taxpayer la grasse. Unlike you......

Paul1405,

I would like to know who is behind Clive Palmer.

I have the feeling that it is the Chinese.

My suspicions were aroused at the time of the 2019 federal election and now that he is doing something that could damage WA I am now even more suspicious.

But then that's me I guess. I'm even suspicious about Jeffrey Epstein breaking a neck bone when he hung himself and Mark Weinberg dissenting in the George Pell appeal giving the High Court no option but to acquit him.

There are some things that just don't look right to me.

Individual,

I'm not even sure what you mean by the term - "Leftie".
Labels belong on jars not on people.
And people often change their minds - depending on the
policies and people involved. Most people's views are
not set in concrete.

cont'd ...

At present I am really happy with that our government
is doing. I think Scott Morrison and his team
are doing a good job.

Foxy,

I heard a rumour that Scott Morrison and Josh Frydenberg are working on getting a surplus budget. That tells you just how dedicated these guys are. They won't let anything stand in their way. Not even a worldwide pandemic and a global economic collapse.

Mr Opinion,

Focus on evidence rather than rumours.

Hi Foxy Mr O,

"I would like to know who is behind Clive Palmer."
Mr O, given the wide beam of the morbidly obese Palmer, it rivals the stern of the Queen Mary, you wouldn't know, it could easily hide 15 million Chinese, no sweat.

Foxy, I also give the Morrison government a pass on their handling of the pandemic, a few mistakes, but fair enough. What concerns me is their "plan", or lack of, for economic recovery. Unlike some of the hard right posters, who would have let the virus run rampant, for no other reason than supposedly to save the economy, which it wouldn't, these guys are obsessed with debt, as are many of the conservatives in the government. There will be no economic "snap back" as Morrison put it, there is going to be a long and arduous road ahead to recovery. I don't believe the conservatives will be up to the task. They will sink back into their philosophical shell, and hope for the best, while delivering the worst.

Indy, your opinion about what Little Johnny Howard gets, and Crudd gets
Paul1405,
T'was actually Foxy who brought up the subject of PM/ex expense in a hypocritical sense about little Johnny !

Dear Paul,

This is not the first time that our country has been
in a financial crisis and it won't be the last.
It always manages to get back on its feet. I'm sure
that our government has good economic advisers who
know what to do and our Prime Minster does listen
to the advisers unlike Trump.

Foxy,

I think you are in for a big shock.

Mr Opinion,

The shock will be yours not mine
on so many things.

Foxy,

No it won't.

Mr Opinion,

Yes it will!

You don't see the big picture because you
have such a small screen.

The shock will hit frivolous industries just as it already has.

Hi Foxy,

I was surprised at the conservative response to the pandemic, when Morrison said early on, "I'm off to the footy", about that time I though "Oh no, this mob are not taking this serious, big trouble coming our way." but I think with prodding from the states, particularly from Andrews, it galvanised Morrison into action, and in the nick of time.

I think Australia, indeed the world, has a hard row to hoe before reaching full recovery. Unfortunately there will be many obstacles to overcome along the way, not the least high unemployment for a long period. What is done by government to alleviate the social dislocation it causes is going to be critical to any recovery. Are the conservatives up to the task? They may prove me wrong, but past history shows they tend to become distracted by an ideological slant, preoccupied with debt and monetary restraint, at the expense of the human requirement.

Paul1405,

Scott and Josh are putting together a surplus budget that'll hit the impact of the WuFlu pandemic for six. It'll blow your mind away!

Has anyone noticed how deathly quiet the opposition has been lately ?

individual,

They are leaving the disaster to Scott Morrison to clean up.

They just don't need to get their hands dirty when they can leave it to the government.

Wouldn't you do the same if you were in their shoes?

Mr Opinion,
WRONG ! They're clueless so they keep stumm ! Shorten must be buying Lotteyr tickets everyday in gratitude of not winning the election !

individual,

Why don't you roll up your sleeves and help Josh put together the next surplus budget?

And during the lunch break Scott will take you for a drive down to Cobargo and introduce you to some of his friends.

Mr Opinion,
The Coalition should do what goes against the grain of the Snow flake parties.
Bring on a National Service scheme, reduce high end Public Service salaries, bring on Flat tax,
bring in penalties for wasting public funding !
Now, which Union & which Labor/Green politicians will come on board ?

Well Indy, yes a Seniors National Service, are you up for it? Nothing too strenuous, a few hours a day, about ten, a little bit of scrub clearing, a spot of road work, nothing to break the back. Get them cashed up pensioners out of gods waiting room and into the fresh air, that's what I say. A little payback to us taxpayers for all those years of la grasse in the form of aged welfare. Work hard and be rewarded with extra food stamps for pensioners luxury items such as baked beans and the occasional bar of soap. I'm all for it.

Another brilliant idea, send teams of aged pensioners around to the homes of hard working public servants and have them cut their lawns etc etc! Indy do you have your own lawnmower?

Well Paul, you appear to be a perfect example of why Aus needs more multiculturalism in a helluva hurry - before the place goes entirely to the dogs. (No Americans need apply - except Mark Zucherberg & Co.)

I realise you're just stirring, but that's one of the main problems with Aus - too many stirrers and not enough go-getters.

Albo is quiet - because he just has nothing to say. Samo, samo.

Shorten and Bowen invisible - because they are an embarrassment.

Quiet achievers, all those determined to make good and not afraid of a few setbacks or hard knocks, willing to put in the hard yards and not looking for anyone else to blame if things turn sour - 100% Dinky-Die, and so very many of them are fine New Australians. While so many of the 'established culture' look for every possible means to stay below the radar and just suck on the proceeds of other's achievements.

Blimey, and Stone the Crows, wake up Aus, get stuck in, or get the hell out of the way - and stop breeding like demented ferrets.

Thanks Salty, btw, how do demented ferrets breed? News flash; we will have to employ another half mill public servants to whip those old aged nasho's into gear. What do you say to that? Do you think I'm heartless? I will not have any pensioner over the age of 90 working more than 60 hours a week, and then only on light duties, such as grubbing out tree stumps! Salty, by the time I'm finished with them, they will all be go-getters! If they haven't already gone and go it

Foxy,

I found this example of racism by Australia against an Asian nation:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/defence-department-warns-that-highly-active-spies-pose-extreme-threat-to-australias-shipbuilding-plan/ar-BB1801nh?li=AAgfLCP&ocid=mailsignout

What do you think we should do to stop these racial attacks on the Chinese in Australia?

Misop,

It's very likely that the Chinese military is spying on Australian defences. Where possible, I'm sure that their Australian counterparts are trying to do something similar - I certainly hope so, otherwise they wouldn't be doing one of their key jobs. It would be infantile to accuse either one of racism if they were found to be doing that.

But only a lazy moron would attempt to tar all Chinese, CCP-supporters and otherwise, students, Australian-born, Taiwanese, Chinese from a hundred other countries with the same brush, as agents of the CCP and the Chinese military. THAT would indeed be racist.

Your choice, moron :)

Joe [Foulmouth]

FOULmouth,

Doesn't matter, it's still racism to accuse Chinese of doing it just because they have a consulate in Australia and there are spies among in the Chinese cultures of Australia.

Misopinionated,

Are you suggesting that it's racist to accuse China of spying, if, as you assert, they have agents in Australia who are spying ?

No, I don't think so.

Strange how your mind 'works'.

Joe [Foulmouth]

FOULmouth,

I'm not saying that Chinese in Australia are spies.

Say that and Foxy will tell me off for being racist.

Mr O, just the other evening I was in the 'Golden Dragon' having my regular Friday night nosh up, short soup with the sweet n' sour pork, a side order of boiled rice. They do a very good sweet n' sour, I digress, sorry about that, back to the goings on. The phone rings and the old Chinese bird answered, I'm sure it was a fellow spy passing on a coded message! This is what was said; "6 mini spring rolls, chicken chow mein, Mongolian lamb and a large special fried rice." The old duck jots it down and then said "It be ready, 20 minutes, you pick up". I ask you what will be ready in 20 minutes, what will be picked up! Obviously a coded message, going straight to Beijing! There are spies everywhere, what would The Donald make of that one?

Paul1405,
Knowing your objection to welfare, this should make you happy then that with all the royalties being paid the village can go off welfare ?

The Galalar project was launched in December, after HopeVale Congress Aboriginal Corporation agreed to a name change from the previous Nob Point prospect.

Diatreme said the move “reflects the backing of the traditional owners” and its desire for “maximum local economic benefit” when the mine is operational.

Galalar forms part of Diatreme’s Cape Bedford silica and heavy minerals project located 200km north of Cairns and near the world’s largest operating silica sand mine at Cape Flattery.

At midday, shares in Diatreme Resources were trading 15.38% higher at $0.015.

Paul1405,

That is totally racist. Foxy and FOULmouth will have your balls for that.

Just keep eating your sweet & sour and act like there are no Chinese. It's the only way Foxy will think you are not being racist about the Chinese in Australia.

Mr O, if you kick all the Hunamunas out of Oz, then I'll have to eat at the Hindu La la's, and I don't really like pizza all that much, maybe a 'Super Supreme' with cheesy crust now and then, I like the the way the Hindu La La's make em' at their traditional Indian Pizza Hut! Good value at two for $30 home delivered, by dat little fella on de bicycle, his little brown legs go ten to the dozen, with tat big red box on his back, just to get me pizza hot and fresh! I always tip him 50c extra for his effort.

Mr Opinion,
So, you still think Pauline Hanson was wrong with her warning ?

individual,

Please explain.

Please explain.
Mr Opinion,
Are you so young that you need to ask ?

Foxy and FOULmouth are always criticising people who bring into question the loyalty of Chinese-Australians and are telling us that we can always trust Chinese migrants because they pledge loyalty to Australia.

Well here's a news item posted on the web an hour ago about a Chinese-American CIA agent caught spying for the Chinese:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/former-cia-agent-charged-with-years-of-spying-for-china/ar-BB184sXv?ocid=msedgntp

I wouldn't trust the Chinese as far I could throw them. Generally, their only interest in life is money and all things Chinese and their ultimate loyalty will always be to their ancestral homeland irrespective of where they are positioned spatially and temporally in the Chinese diaspora.

If you don't agree than I suggest you hold hands with Foxy and FOULmouth and join them in an eternal chorus of Kumbaya.

Misop,

Poor half-wit child. Your infantile claim that Foxy and I keep " ..... telling us that we can always trust Chinese migrants because they pledge loyalty to Australia..... " simply because we suggest that you can't tar everybody with the same brush, falls into the opposite trap of doing exactly that.

Of course, there are Chinese spies in Australia. I don't trust the Confucius Institutes, for example: they would be ideal centres for organising spy networks. I don't trust Chinese electronics companies not to track everybody.

But I do assume that, like other people, most Chinese here are simply going about the business of making a living or studying, or enjoying a rest after a lifetime of hard work.

I don't think any group of people, ever, have been 100 % (or close to it) on the side of some evil ideology. I don't think that's how humans work. I'm always reminded that during the War, there wasn't a single case of espionage by any Japanese-Americans, even those interned who had lost all their property; and that one of the most highly-decorated US battalions during the War was made up entirely of Japanese-Americans.

Yes, there were cases of local German-Americans spying for the Nazis and carrying out sabotage for them. But even Germans are people too :)

You may learn all that as you mature.

Joe

FOULmouth,

I think it's pretty clear whose side you're on - you little Maoist pie-maker.

You're probably even the president of the Andrew Forrest Fan Club.

MO,

Please get a life; get off the treadmill and breathe-in the magical mystery of the heart beating in your chest, the blood pulsing your being forward for another microsecond, another moment, a glimpse, and forward to a veritable kaleidoscope of living, seeing, enjoying, and beholding of an infinity of prospect beyond the next millisecond and the next sunrise.

The horizon beckons our gaze to what may lie beyond the next turning of the way, and imagination illuminates our appreciation of all we are yet privileged to grasp or to comprehend.

We live in thought, but thought is to enable us to appreciate as well as to contemplate.

Take care and be well.

Dear Saltpetre,

Sigh.

You really are an amazing man.

Saltpetre,

Send the Chinese back home and I'll do what you say.

Misop,

Oy. If you mean all people with Chinese ancestry in Australia, can you understand how completely racist that prejudice is ?

No, of course you can't.

That they should all be sent to China ? Are you aware that a very high proportion of those who you see on the street and think are Chinese, aren't Chinese ? They may be Thai, Vietnamese, Filipino/Filipina, Burmese, Taiwanese, Korean, Indonesian ?

No, of course you're not.

Has it occurred to you that many of those who you characterise as 'Chinese' are Australian-born, with perhaps longer ancestry here than you have ?

No, of course it hasn't.

Has it occurred to you that many Chinese, those from China, are secretly (necessarily and understandably secretly) hostile to the Chinese regime, more than you could ever be ?

No, of course it hasn't.

Poor simple child. And that's being very charitable.

Joe

FOULmouth,

What part of "Send the Chinese back home ................ " don't you understand?

You are so fixated on keeping your Chinese spy mates in the country you cannot comprehend a simple sentence.

Misop,

Pot - kettle.

Foulmouth

We used to have standardised assimilationist views
of what it meant to be "Australian". Today that's
contested with the acceptance of diversity and choice
over all aspects of lifestyle, culture, and religion.
Multiculturalism as an official government policy has
led to the imagining of a multiplicity of identities
in Australia.

Hi Sooore,

If you mean by 'multiplicity', a multiplicity of ways of being Australian, then you're onto something.

Once we welcome someone to Australia, and if they become citizens, then they are fully Australian. They may continue to speak their original language and teach it to their children, since that is a right of all Australians. They may practice any religion they like, eat whatever food they like and marry whoever they like, within the common Australian law. They have all the rights of Australians.

There is no grading system in which some of us are more Australian than others, no bunyip hierarchy, no pecking order.

And all of those variations on being Australian contribute something to it which our grandchildren and great-grandchildren will thank us for.

Joe

FOULmouth,

I'm happy with that just as long as everyone acknowledges that we are now all Asian.

First time visitors to Australia make comments like "You're all so Asian."

A US guest on The Project made that comment to the panel and Peter Helliar and Kerry Bickmore looked at her quizzically as if to say"Asian? We're not Asian." All of a sudden it dawned on people watching the show around the country that we are Asian.

Misop,

So your racism has 'evolved' from being anti-Chinese to being anti-Asian now ? Can we expect it to soon 'evolve' (or degenerate) into just plain anti-foreigner ?

No, moron, we're Australian. Being Australian in 2020 is a bit different from being Australian in 1951, and thank god for that.

Asians, of any sensible definition, make up maybe 10 % of the Australian population and, if anything, they're becoming more Australian quicker than the rest of the population is becoming Asian (which itself will be changing rapidly), whatever that may mean.

My kids are Indigenous through their mother, Ngarrindjeri from the lower Murray Lakes. I have nephews and nieces with Polynesian and Filipino ancestry. They are every bit part of the national mix as anybody else. Who they mix with and who they marry is entirely up to them, not to some bureaucrat with a clip-board or slide-rule or colour chart.

The extent to which Australians become Asian is entirely up to Australians. The next generations who will have plenty of choice about who and how they mix with.

Meanwhile troglodytes will always have the right to stock up on baked beans and toilet paper, and retreat to their caves. You can still watch crap daytime TV down there too, Misop.

Joe. [Foulmouth]

well we are all either evolved from apes (some more than others) reincarnated depending on how well you lived you previous life (another lie from Hinduism) or we all came from Adam and Eve and then Noah and family. There is only one rational explanation and only one that really should prevent racism. Problem is people want to pick and choose.

Runner,

In your Adamic myth, we are all descended from Cain. And, of course, his wife, who I believe came from the land of Nod. So we are all Nodians too. For some reason, I've always thought that Nod was somewhere in Ethiopia.

All organisms evolve. This Covid-19 virus is evolving all the time. Nothing unusual about that. It's how every organism's DNA works, plugging along, reproducing/duplicating itself and every so often mutating. If there was a god, she would probably be evolving and mutating too; she would have dropped the beard long ago.

Joe

FOULmouth,

All I'm saying is that people around the world now see Australia as an Asian nation.

Misop,

Well, you're not alone in being pig-ignorant:) Even on the best TV knowledge-contest programs like MasterMind, sometimes I'm surprised at how drastically wrong some answers are about geography. 'Of what country is Nuku'alofa the capital ?' 'Bahrain'. 'In what state or territory is Uluru ?' 'South Australia'. Look them up, Misop.

So you're in plenty of ignorant company. Yes, you may be right, that many people overseas think of Australia as being part of Asia, and therefore that Australians are Asians. Frank Sinatra thought that we all spoke Spanish. Most Australians aren't aware that all of the main towns and villages across the entire north of Australia were bombed by the Japanese, not just Darwin, from Charters Towers around to Port Hedland, and inland to Katherine.

Poor boy, so much to learn ........

Joe

FOULmouth,

You sound disappointed that the Asianisation of Australia has achieved its purpose of making Australia part of Asia, giving us out Asian identity and making Australia an Asian nation-state.

You helped it happen and now you're all upset about it. There's absolutely no pleasing some people, not even a little Maoist pie-maker from Melbourne like yourself.

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