I am open about my preference for Western leadership for the world.

Hence, I am interested in what OLO readers like or dislike about Western influence.

I also argue that, in overall terms, UK and US hegemony for the last two centuries has served the world well.

I argue this in terms of their influence in various international institutions, the promotion of freer trade, sport and culture.

Does anyone fear the decline of Western influence? If so, why?

What are your thoughts?

Gee, Chris, you don't ask easy questions. I think that the advantages the West has over the rest are evident in every aspect of life. Nothing is perfect, but Christian based Western civilisation is far, far less imperfect than anything else, and you don't have to be a Christian to enjoy it, unlike other systems without the separation of state and religion.

The West is Best.

I'm not sure I worry about "the decline of Western influence" because I don't think that the West needs to, or should, influence other systems unless the other systems want it. The West has already made too many mistakes thinking that they should Westernise the rest of the world, even when the 'rest' have made it quite clear that they think they are fine the way they are. Our most shocking and threatening 'blue' in this regard is China.

But, I fear that the West is under threat, mainly from within. We have lost faith in ourselves, and we can longer be sure that the West will not go the same way as other great and successful civilisations have in the past.

Dear Chris,

What I like about Western culture in today's world is
that we have well-developed ideas for improving our
world to ensure that we don't have the collapse that
has happened to past cultures.

Whether we choose to destroy our civilization or save
it is a collective decision - and one that hopefully
will be made within our lifetimes.

If we continue along the path that we're currently on
then we risk our own destruction. What I like
is that we do have the means to
reverse the destructive path that we're currently on.

We can divert unprecedented energy and resources to the
real problems that face us, including poverty, disease,
overpopulation, injustice, oppression, and the
devastation of our natural environment.

There are well developed ideas for improving our lot.
The policy proposals are out there. Climate change is a
serious threat and needs to be taken seriously.
Emissions can be reduced, inequalities levelled,
environmental degradation reversed, innovation
unleashed, and economies diversified. We have
the knowledge systems and the technology
that can be made to work.

Our world leaders need to start to take notice of the vast
army of experts who are willing and able to guide us
through the coming difficult years. A better world is
possible. It will take time, It will be difficult.
But it will be worth it.

In the words of Joni Mitchell "Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got til its gone", & that is the problem with modern western civilisation. Far too many reaping huge benefits from it & putting nothing back.

Too many don't realise how good they & everyone else have it, & particularly why they have it so good. Too many are trying to tear it down, with no idea of what would be left to them, & the rest of the world.

Unlike Foxy I think we are at the "mobs of Rome" stage in western civilisation, recently highlighted by the black rights matter riots, The idiots don't realise that when they succeed in tearing down what we have built it will be replaced with something like the hell holes of Africa, South America, or North Korea.

These clowns don't realise it is hard work, not noisy protests & destruction that get results, but this would not suit them with not a single working bone in their body.

So Chris I believe the end is near, & will come in my kids lifetime. The EU & the US will fall apart, & Oz will become the almost white trash of the South Pacific. I believe in the eat drink & be merry approach today, as I don't think there is a future to save for or work towards.

We are the last & most lucky of all. We had a world where we could achieve anything we wanted through education & hard work. What a pity we have allowed the ratbag fringe destroy all that.

Ridiculously about the only thing that could save us would be a major war. It would clear out a lot of trash, & perhaps bring some patriotism back to the west. If we survived it would be a population with some meaning in their lives, quite different to today.

The 'Entitlement' mentality & Greed are the Wests downfall !

Thanks for comments.

I think between ttbn and hasbeen, I have a useful start for a later article.

Given that the rise of Asia and authoritarianism seems inevitable, will the West survive or will it decline?

I am inclined to agree with ttbn. We may well survive and remain a leading light for humanity, but we may need to accept a declining influence in the world.

yet, hasbeen may also be correct. So the question is whether we should fight our decline, and also adapt at the domestic level to toughen up and contribute a bit more.

I think with the right leadership the West can respond.

But I believe the best thinkers of the left and right will need to lift their game, stop bickering with cheap points, and get over the reality that we are mostly saved by being a lucky country with what is in the ground.

To add, given that the US has so many cleavages, I think one of the best Western policy examples can come from the Australian experience, from its achievements thus far, and need to respond soon given we are resting too much on misguided policy trends.

I include both industry and immigration as examples where we must modify our approach, but I will leave my thoughts for later pieces.

So please OLO readers, provide food for thought to consider on this issue.

I think the mentality of "The Country owes me" is clearly what's bringing countries to their knees. Ask anyone to put a little effort for the good of all such as a National Service & people, particularly on the Left scream & run as far & fast as they can.
Responsibility or rather the adapting of some responsibility is simply abhorrent to these people.
Western Society was built on being a little smarter & putting in more of an effort than the rest but then greed & corruption took over & here we are !
Now we have bleeding hearts & self-loathers but still, they're mere hangers-on.
Until people come to wake up & realise that the western lifestyle didn't eventuate from thin air the West will disintegrate more.

Dear Chris Lewis,

I'm not so sure about Western culture but the Aussie one has been taking a beating from the economic rationalists who have been keen to dismantle our society in some Thatcherite inspired frenzy cheered on by the right.

As I have said before the fact we now have over a third of our kids in private religious schools, that the numbers of private hospitals are now even with public ones, that the chances of home ownership for our young are being vacuumed up by those who already own their homes, these are all things that strip the once cherished notion of egalitarianism and community that was such a significant part of our culture.

The worst thing about the West is the idiotic respect that has allowed selective 'experts' to dictate policy's because gutless politicians won't do what they are paid to do. The filling of Sydney's dams yet again is another example of stupidity after the former Australian of the year said that it rains would not fill our dams again. So here we have a population of about 5 millions people and no new dams built due to the 'experts'. One of a thousand examples. Giving China masses of coal to create cheap energy while we sign deals with the UN to cut emissions is not only dumbing generations down but robbing our country. 'Experts' (deviants) teaching that humans with penis's are not male and vaginas not female is criminal. Our unis are full of professors who push marxism and division while collecting huge salaries thanks to capitalism. The list is endless. The handling of the virus is the latest nail in the coffin for the West. You can trace almost every bit of stupidity to the hatred of Christ and the bible which was the very thing that gave the West its success and prosperity.

Western civilisation will not be destroyed. It will continue on into the foreseeable future. Civilisations may go into decline but even the greatest upheavals don't destroy the essence of a civilisation. The Middle Eastern societies withstood conquest by Alexander, centuries of Hellenisation, conquests by Arabs, Mongols, Britain and France. Yet Xerxes would have understood Saddam and Sargon II, Erdogan, just as Themistocles would have understood Churchill and Cliesthenes, Jefferson.

But the anglo variant of Western Civilisation is under threat. This is the culture that ushered in the greatest advances in the history of mankind. Millennia old battles against hunger resolved. Human life expectancy doubled. Poverty, if not yet overcome, massively reduced. The secrets of science understood and harnessed. The moon visited. Women liberated. Slavery abolished.

All of that is in jeopardy as the Anglo era comes under threat both from within and without. I remain optimistic that the US will yet get its act together and therefore the anglo era will survive a lot longer still.

But were it to falter, then the advances of the past 300 years are in danger. We've already seen where the west has withdrawn, slavery reappear (ISIS, Lybia, Uyghuristan). We know that its possible to fritter away scientific advances (eg Russian agriculture following collectivisation). The notion of individual liberty means nothing in the world of the Chinese Social Credit Score.

I know that there'll be folk here who'll demur that all isn't perfect therefore its bad. The people I describe as seeing only the cracks in the Mona Lisa rather than the smile.

But the fact is the decline of the west will usher in a new dark ages.

Some people argue that the mask of Western civilization
finally fell August 6th 1945 when the United States
became the first country to use nuclear weapons on
Hiroshima and then Nagasaki - killing 130,000 people
instantly and tens of thousands more through radiation
exposure.

To many this was a descent into barbarism from which
the West has yet to recover.

"Benjamin Franklin Pinkerton bought a house
On a hill above the Bay of Nagasaki
For Madame Butterfly to die in
Before fifty years had gone
There were thousands of dead butterflies
All over a dead town
And the marriage brokers were out of a job
Benjamin Franklin Pinkerton still believes
That only American wives are real

Madame Butterfly stood at the window all night long
Waiting for Lieutenant B.F. Pinkerton to climb the hill
Like any plumber or electrician since his day
He failed to come
Human beings, it is said
Spend a third of their lives in bed
Women must have spent another third
Waiting for men to turn up. If all those hours
Were laid end to end
We could have another life
Of our own

Even in 1900, Madame Butterfly was out of date
Fidelity, acceptance, death or dishonour -
What quaint anachronisms!
Lieutenant Pinkerton showed the way
The world willingly followed
Deaf to the final, questioning chord
No penalties - only consequences
Which Pinkerton cannot evade
Any more than butterflies".
(Dorothy Auchterlonie - Green).

The technology since 1945 has changed. Yet the moral
poistion is still the same as in this poem of Dorothy
Green's. One can only rid the world of atrocities only
by refusing to take part in them. Decades go by, and the
scars and sores of the past are healing over for good.
However, unless we learn from the mistakes of the
past, the tragedies, it is unlikely that we will have
a future to contemplate. The moral choice is ours to
make. Save our civilization - or destroy it.

cont'd ...

cont'd ...

If more and more nuclear weapons are built, and if
more sophisticated means of delivering them are devised,
and if more nations get control of these vile devices
then we surely risk our own destruction. Not only the
destruction of our civilization, but our planet.

The Western civilisation ?
Not perfect yet but better than any alternative.
Let the people decide.
How to decide that, well, which way is the migration going.
The catch 22 is that immigration may well end the west.
If those who come from a different culture want to change the west to
the culture they left, we need to ask them why did they come ?

The catch 22 is that immigration may well end the west.
Bazz,
You're on the money there ! The migrants/refugees from WW2 were workers, the new wave are nowhere near of that mentality !

Very interesting comments... sadly I'll need to think before contributing fully. It's good that there seems to be general agreement. As others have said most people agree on the problems but disagree on the solutions.

My feeling on the concept of "The Expert" is that everybody needs to think for themselves as to what is in their own best interest. While it's ok to use experts as tools it's not ok to have a "dictatorship of experts".

Experts are as fallible to human sins as any other group. James Burnham talked of Managerialism which seems similar to a dictatorship of experts. He seems to believe that Managerialism is the basis of Evolutionary Communism in the modern age.

Anyway thanks for the stimulating ideas.

What a fascinating topic.

First of all, I have always viewed myself as 'human' before anything else. In other words, there is good and bad in every human being, weather that person be from the 'west' the 'east' or wherever. It therefore follows that there are positive and negative aspects of all cultures, religions or idiologies. The major failings in all of them have been the inability to recognise and acknowledge the shortcomings and extend the positive aspects in both ourselves and others.

Two quick examples of this here in Australia are:
1) The general failure of white Australians to recognise or accept the knowledge indigenous Australians could contribute towards land management and bush fire mitigation.
2) A Sth. Sudanese migrant after living in Australia for several years, said that she was financially much better off than before, but spiritually much poorer.

So to say that one culture is better than the other is, I think, inaccurate.

What does the future hold for western civilization? Equally good question.

When the ‘leading lights’ of western civilisation invade other countries, imposing ‘peace and democracy’ upon them at the point of a gun, they are inviting completely justified scorn and mockery upon their actions

Continued ...

I'm drawn to a French economist (whose name I have forgotten) whose general thesis goes something like: After the 2 world wars in the early 20th century, the aristocrats and elites were forced to relinquish certain rights (i.e. working conditions and pay, equality of opportunity etc.) in order to rebuild. The subsequent growth of the middle classes is a historical blimp, and now that everything has been rebuilt, we are witnessing a return to the traditional situation of the very rich and the very poor.

This is glaringly evident in the current divide with the top 1% owning 90% of the world's resources. Equality of justice has also gone missing resulting in the growth of the movements such as BLM. When people like Hasbeen claim "...These clowns don't realise it is hard work, not noisy protests & destruction that get results, but this would not suit them with not a single working bone in their body..." they are being wilfully ignorant of other people's reality.

With the arrival of COVID-19 and its disruption to both the physical wellbeing of the population and the interruption to current economic norms, anything is possible. Personally I hope that we don’t return to the immediate past, reimagining the world as clones of Ronald Regan and Margaret Thatcher, but rather grasp the opportunity to positively restructure and reorganise, just as we did in the early part of last century

Sudanese migrant after living in Australia for several years, said that she was financially much better off than before, but spiritually much poorer.
Aries54,
I wonder how many OLOers can relate to that. I know I can only too well ! Culturally, the British Colonists have failed this Nation. One just has to look at Adelaide where most Colonisers came from the Continent. A totally different mentality there !

Aries,

Thomas Piketty ?

Joe

.

Dear Chris,

.

I don’t often agree with ttbn, but I do when he writes :

« … I fear that the West is under threat, mainly from within. We have lost faith in ourselves, and we can longer be sure that the West will not go the same way as other great and successful civilisations have in the past »
.

The root problem, in my view, is the way our hybrid political system of representative democracy has been designed to operate.

Representative democracy is a hybrid political system that combines characteristics of both democracy and oligarchy. While party candidates are democratically elected by the dêmos (people) to be their representatives, they continue to owe allegiance to their political parties and are held to toe the party line at the risk of exclusion.

Democratically elected political representatives are simply puppets on a string acting on orders from their political parties, not in the common interest, but in their own interests and in the interests of the economic elites and organised special interest groups.

The first to take advantage of our so-called “representative democracy” were those who had positioned themselves, right from the beginning, at the very heart of the system: the political parties. The rapacious economic elite and well-organised special interest groups were quick to follow suit. All three (political parties, economic elites and special interest groups) perfectly-identified and understood the weakness of the system and learned how to influence and manipulate it to further their own interests, in complete impunity, under the pretext of democracy.

They are killing the hen that lays the golden egg.

Our hybrid system of representative democracy has been operating far too long almost exclusively as an oligarchy. The mandate of our elected representatives should be limited to the daily run-of-the-mill matters. All major issues should be dealt with by direct democracy.

It’s time we took stock of the situation and did something about it. If not, we’ll end up with some form of authoritarian rule.

The rich and powerful are robbing us of what little freedom we have.

.

Yes, Banjo.

I agree we must change within if we are to reverse our relative decline.

A lot of the policy elites claim they are for the people, both left and right, but we need more ideas debated between them to show people how we can make sacrifices in order to gain.

As it stands, it is a brawl between various interest groups.

But perhaps I am being too idealistic.

The rich and powerful are robbing us of what little freedom we have.

Banjo Paterson,
They don't even have to try to rob us, we're jumping in ahead of them buying what they eye sees. They're merely obliging to good old greed.
The real robbers are our bureaucrats, those faceless ones in high office but we never hear of !
Each political party has a stack of them ! They have a network known as the Public Service.

Loudmouth2

Thanks Joe, that's him.