Treasurer Josh Frydenberg and Finance Minister Mathias Cormann delivered the bad news this morning, the economy is in a shocking state. The deficit for 2019/20 was $86 billion, with an optimistic forecast of a blowout of another $184 billion in 2020/21, the highest ever for one year. Where is the claimed $5 billion surplus, printed on mugs for us mugs, a distant memory that never was! The official forecast for unemployment is over 9% by the end of the year, a figure that no one believes, more like 15% to 20% and rising. The national debt stood at $488 billion at the end of June, and optimistically is expected to reach $677 billion next financial year. With years of deficits ahead Australia's debt will soon mushroom to over one trillion dollars.

When questioned by a reporter about this massive debt level, Mathias Cormann, who is "retiring" at the end of the year, with a shrug of the shoulders, and a degree of indignation said; "What else could we do?"

For years the Coalition preached economic conservatism, while our debt grew year by year, from taking office in 2013 the Coalition managed to double national debt in about four years. $175 billion when Labor left office, September 2013, the Coalition then increased it to $350 billion by December 2017.

Someone answering Mathias Cormann's question, might say; "Stop the pretence you are the gurus of economic managers, your past record gives lie to that, and admit you panicked when Covid-19 hit and splashed the cash like a drunken sailor, wasting most of it with Bandaid solutions." This economic mess will take years, more likely decades, to clean up, long after Cormann has "retired" into a very well paid cushy job somewhere.

Where is the claimed $5 billion surplus, printed on mugs for us mugs,
Paul1405,
?? Are you a full-blown drongo ??

Criticism from an economic pinhead, ho hum!

Debt levels will explode in coming years, and I doubt whether all that debt will ever be repaid. There could be large-scale write offs.

In the current climate, Australian govts will merely argue our debt is lower than most, so they will keep on borrowing. Like a stack of cards, waiting to fall, but never does because govts keep printing money.

I understand the immense policy difficulties, but i do find it a bit annoying that my own fiscal conservatism counts for little as govts merely pump money to reward risky investments and those high in debt.

All I/we can do at a personal level, as i have been saving for over 12 years to people, is to reduce your own personal debt levels, as future decades are uncertain.

Who knows what govts will come up with in terms of saving the economy, but it could be ugly.

Sooner or later, govts will have to stop printing money and face some hard realities.

The whole damned World is in an economic spiral dive from the stall that is COVID-19 & only with the correction of the 'Right" rudder can we pull out.
For our resident git to turn around & mock the surplus prediction from times when all was fairly ok is nothing short of extreme mindlessness !
Is any wonder the whole show is collapsing with such mentality abounding ?

As usual, people will be expecting the people who caused this economic disaster - politicians - to fix it. Mission impossible!

In the Wars they had it worse. Rationing, check points, national service, martial law. The military have advanced protocols for dealing with bio-weapons we should use some of them. To be honest I would trust them more than the police if they are the same as I remember. Nurses should go on a list and asked to report to hospitals in their home zone. Rip the bandaid off and fix the problem. Get the economy working again by working from home- mobilize the telcoms, and other resources to facilitate telepresence, etc, etc. Kick out the useless touchy feely creepy socialist communist idiots running the bureaucracy and put capable military officers in charge.

Run the companies under martial law for 6 months to pay off the debt.

Problem solved.

Things get done more quickly when you do some actual work. Ayn Rand

The fact that pre-Covid the Libs managed to double the debt without the excuse of the GFC really showed just how inept they were in dealing with this crisis.

Diving for 'historical tax cuts' in a vain hope it would reduce debt levels was pie in the sky trickle down economic at its finest.

This lot are clowns and I would much rather have the opposition getting us through this right now.

I cant see how tax cuts will be much of a solution either.

I hope I am wrong.

So ironic those pressing for the most draconian lockdowns, supporting the marxist propganda of the abc at a billion a year, cheering on the renewables scam, supporting the spreading of the virus through protests, now want to pretend they care about economics. You certainly could not make this stuff up.

I guess it was always going to happen.

Those who were most gung-ho for the total lock-down, those who were utterly cheering the closure of businesses willy-nilly to 'save' lives, those who chanted the mantra that we're all in this together, those same are now shocked, shocked I tell ya (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPY6Pp4kmxQ) that the economy has tanked and will take years (decades?) to repair.

We used to lament that governments couldn't think beyond the next election. We now have governments and, it seems, a majority constituency who can't think beyond the next scary WuFlu pronouncement.

The really sad part is that it was all so unnecessary.

It's all part of a bloody political struggle.

Dear mhaze,

And those who got aboard Abbott's debt truck and who slammed the Rudd initiatives are now saying no biggie.

Your side of politics made this a top push button issue and now it is being directed back at you you run a mile.

Don't worry Scott Morrison and Josh Frydenburg will have the budget back in surplus before you can say 'coronavirus'.

Well SR is back. I guess he assumes that there's been enough time since his monumental gaffs around the Trump-Russian collusion myth that its safe to return.

"And those who got aboard Abbott's debt truck and who slammed the Rudd initiatives are now saying no biggie"

Are they? Who are they? Certainly not me. I've been pointing out what a disaster the unrestrained spending will be from the outset.

It is a biggie. Its a disaster for the nation - a foreseeable and avoidable disaster.

But not my side SR. I haven't voted for them since they overthrew Abbott. And I won't until they get some true fiscal competence back in charge.

But everything about SR is sides. If your not on his side, you must be on the other side. Would it be cruel to remind him of his school crush on Andrews as regards the WuFlu? Yes probably cruel - so I won't do it.

In 1966, the Libs won government based on the majority supporting the involvement in Vietnam. So over 50% of the population supported the war then. 20 years later a survey was run to try to ascertain current attitudes toward that war. Fewer than 15% claimed to have voted for involvement in the war. “Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan?”

I suspect in a decade's time, we'll find that almost no one supported the lockdown either.

We have two things in our favour - according to
economic experts. One is interest rates. They've
never been lower. This makes the debt affordable
at least.

Secondly -

We remain one of the
least indebted nations because every other nation
has ramped up its borrowings to cope with the
pandemic lockdown.

We remain one of just 11 countries with a triple A
credit rating. That's when the Australian Government
goes to global investors to borrow - it is almost run
over in the stampede. Apparently international investors
can't get enough of Australian Government Bonds. They
want to lend us money.

According to the Reserve Bank our problem is not
government debt - it's household debt - plus the
weakest wages growth and that goes a long way to explain
why the economy was sputtering before the pandemic hit.

Experts tell us that the government needs to abandon its
surplus ambition and spend more on infrastructure.
It needs to play a much larger role in the economy.
That the days of small government and tax cuts may well
and truly be behind us.

Dear Steele,

Nice to see you posting again.

Dear mhaze,

Lol.

Well that lot regurgitated out with a whimper didn't it.

I have certainly curtailed my appearances here, not through any reason other than the time I can devote to forums such as this is limited so I go where I get a best bang for the buck. I am after halfway decent right wing views with which to engage. That fare is not on offer to the degree it use to be on OLO and the numerous Trumpeteers and their stultified perspectives really don't hold much attraction.

Debating cult members is fun for about 5 minutes.

And how on earth are you using Abbott as your measure of fiscal competence. There was very little that man was competent in and fiscal policy was most certainly not one of them.

As to history supporting the lockdown it is becoming clear how much high death rates have impacted economies. It will all come out in the wash but I doubt history will look kindly on the more open approaches if a vaccine is secured within the year.

Friedbrain and Cornmann discussing the burning Australian economy yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9RbwDvpqD4

From Howard to Morrison the Liberal mantra has been "We are the fiscally responsible mob Australia must have."
Yesterday two of the Coalitions economic clowns stood up and admitted, because of the conronavirus crises they had totally lost the plot. This mob have absolutely no plan for any sort of economic recovery, all they can do is hope for a non existent fiscal miracle! Time to boot them from office.

ttbn,

You're wrong. The politicians will fix it.

They'll squeeze every cent in taxes out of everybody except themselves until the problem goes away.

yeah bring back Tony Abbott. How Australia needs someone who has the spine to do the right thing.

Dear Foxy,

Thanks. Pretty time poor at the moment but will keep a watching brief.

Dear Steele,

You've been sorely missed.

We can't afford to lose any more rational
debaters. There's so few good ones left.

SteeleRedux,

Foxy is spot on there.

Me and now you makes two.

Yah Steele, be stay'n on board, we need all hands on deck when we's come'n across Captain Bilgewater and his motley crew! Give em' a broadside with ah 16 pounder I say! Let em' feel the thrust of yah cold steel! Together, We'll teach the blackguards a lesson!

Its happy days! So stick around.

Did someone mention the Mad Monk? Oh yes it was Pope Pius himself. I thought he had over indulged in an act of self-flagellation at the last papal election and was no more. Probably doing time in purgatory these days!

Seriously Foxy, why state most on here are not rationale.

How rude. Every person has a right to express their opinion.

If they are wrong, then prove they are.

IMO, you seldom do beyond stating your optimistic sentiment.

Now i have had some aggressive spars on OLO too, but i always examine what they say.

Nearly always i actually end up taking up their thoughts to help test my own.

The right wingers on here have many useful things to say which reflects the reality that nearly all perspectives may have strengths and weaknesses.

Dear Chris Lewis,

To believe Climate Change is an utter hoax in this day and age is irrational.

To believe that Trump is deserving of uncritical support is irrational.

To believe the ABC is less trustworthy than Sky News is irrational.

And on topic to believe the Coalition are vastly superior economic managers is irrational in the extreme.

equally,

one could argue that it is waste of time to address climate Change because most others don't or will not; better to simply adapt.

anyone has right to support Trump given free choice and individual reasons. I personally like his aggressive approach to the CCP, although I don't like him enough to want him re-elected.

and that endlessly relying on debt is hardly a solution in the longer term whether Liberal or Labor.

If you are talking about CO2 caused global warming SR, then quite the contrary.

The only people who can believe in CO2 caused climate change are,

1/ Those who have a financial interest in promoting the fraud.

2/ Those who don't have enough math to understand the misquoting of physics.

3/ Those who have a political interest in promoting the fraud & avoid ever looking at the now thousands of studies that prove the whole thing to be a lie.

Which category do you fall into?

SR wrote..."Well that lot regurgitated out with a whimper didn't it."

If anyone's got a gibberish --> English translator can they tell me what that means.

"And how on earth are you using Abbott as your measure of fiscal competence."

Well I wasn't. But he was the last leader in either party that had any aspirations to set fiscal policy with a view to the next generation rather than the next election or, as now, the next opinion poll. My measure is Howard pre-2005. Contrast the Howard-Costello response to the 1997 Asian financial crisis to the current throw money at every problem mantra.

Foxy thinks that since we CAN borrow against our kids future, we SHOULD borrow. As if there's no alternative. But there is, or at least was, an alternative. Its just that the government, and the opposition and the states and media and the 'experts' and the commentariate went down the path of least resistance.

And now we have people shocked that there's a bill to pay for that.

According to the government, and they're being spectacularly optimistic, 200000 more people will become unemployed between now and Christmas. Those people are paying the bill. Those who cheered the lockdown are sitting pretty.

Everyone love Santa in December but not so much when the credit card bill arrives in January.

Dear Chris Lewis,

No not equally at all. I expressly used the terms “utter hoax”, “uncritical support” and “vastly superior” to make sure my points were unequivocal.

Yet here you are equivocating away.

Dear mhaze,

To translate English into English for you.

“That lot” obviously refers to Trump-Russia collusion.

“regurgitated” refers to the fact you drag this out whenever you get called out on something.

And “whimper” refers to the dog like behaviour you exhibit when you throw up in front of us and expect us to think it is anything other than vomit.

Dear Hasbeen,

Thank you. Right on cue.

yes, but in real world, those views do count, at least in democracies

Dear Chris Lewis,

The question which you seem to want to direct elsewhere is not whether the views should be heard but whether they are to be regarded as rational. That is all.

Just in case you need reminding this is what Foxy put;

"We can't afford to lose any more rational debaters."

She wasn't asking for them to be silenced as you have indicated.

I have listed positions I deem irrational and you haven't seriously challenged them. We are having a rational discussion. Why am I not being labeled rude as you did Foxy?

Perhaps you might reconsider.

SR, I am not saying u r rude.

As for your argument, what others say is rational to them.

For example, some on the right are correct to highlight recent decades of considerable budgetary spending which is merely stalling the harder policies ahead.

So i am not going to agree that everything the right states is irrational.

It does not always mean that i agree with the right on each issue.

I think both the ABC and Sky are biased, but that a great deal of their programming is informative.

I prefer the ABC and SBS, but i allow for its bias when I form my opinion.

I don't like Trump, but not all of his policies are crazy.

I do believe that human activity is the major cause of global warming, but i am not sure whether anything much will be done about it until the private sector itself imposes huge insurance costs from the damage.

But I try to avoid attacking the man, mostly.

Dear Chris Lewis,

But you attacked the woman.

If Foxy is regarded as rude then rationally you need to extend that to me.

And again you are equivocating which ain't pretty.

To repeat I expressly used the terms “utter hoax”, “uncritical support” and “vastly superior” to make sure my points were unequivocal.

Many posters here have taken one or more of those irrational positions therefore Foxy was quite right in pointing that out and should have been able to do so without being called rude.

SR,

just wondering; when you make a point or points, they are UNEQUIVOCAL!

Yet when someone else makes a point or points, they are EQUIVOCAL?

I submit, that to establish the TRUTH, it would require an impartial assessor, so given this fact, your comments and opinions on the subject are moot.
I draw your attention to your further explanation in justification, where you attempt a flawed argument by saying;

"I have listed positions "I" deem rational and you"..............

Just wondering?

SR,

I don't have to extend anything, especially any comment I made about another poster.

I repeat, I respect all posters on OLO, albeit I too reserve a right to comment on others.

I can't see how you get anywhere disparaging anyone just because their views are different to yours.

While I am also not always consistent with my tone, I believe you are more likely to get an extended debate with someone on the right if you do take up their points.

Does not mean that you will change their minds, as they might not change yours, but it does mean that a more dynamic and evolving debate may occur.

Chris Lewis,

You have no reason to answer to the misanthropic SR, who has so many personality problems that he has to attack everyone in order to make himself feel worthwhile, except for fellow tossers, Foxy and Paul 1405, the only people of a similar bent here. I don't know why anyone else would go to the trouble of reading his huge blocks of bile.

Dear Chris,

Please check the posting record of ttbn
and then decide for yourself whether his advice
is worth taking. He is a person to whom I have
offered an olive branch in the past. It did not
last long. He doesn't like me, yet he stalks me on
the forum. And tries to slur me every chance
he gets. Even bringing up the killing of Jews in
Lithuania in a vile attempt to slander. (I wasn't
even born then). Obviously he's obsessed.
If I was to walk on water -
he would say - "See - she can't swim".

Don't allow his obsessive behaviour to influence you.
Be careful. Very careful.

Honestly, I don't know why anyone gets upset hearing the truth.
Just agree with the commentor (or not) and move on.
OR, just ignore each other, ZIMPLES!
JEES!

There you go! What did I say! Just can't keep her mouth shut. She wasn't addressed, but on she goes, again and again and .....

Unlike her and the other two, I don't lurk around waiting to attack individual posters whose opinions I don't like. I sometimes respond to posters who address remarks directly to me, the last being the insulting comments by Saltpetre (whom I don't believe I have ever said boo to, previously). I have always felt that it is better to praise those with whom I agree rather than argue with those I don't. I do precious little of that because I agree with so few of the regulars here. And, yes, I am fully accepting that most posters don't agree with me very often, if at all. So be it! That's why I no longer start threads. Unlike Foxy, I can take a hint. I wish more moderate and sensible posters would start threads as a change from the Foxy/Paul 1405 duet.

Foxy, however, is a special case. Apart from being the only woman here, she is so full of herself and so irritating that I sometimes cannot contain myself. I have never known a more arrogant, know-all who knows nothing - even in real life, and I have met some real doozies. I try to ignore those skinny little posts - she is too 'different' to type like everyone else - but it's when she lectures other posters on stuff she obviously knows nothing about that I sometime lose it.

I will try harder in future to pretend that she doesn't exist, and leave her to ALTRAV who seems to enjoy that sort of thing, even though the woman is too insensitive to get the message

ttbn,

Sorry - your excuses don't wash.

As far as you're concerned I can do nothing right.
You've just proven my case. Even my mode of typing
is offensive to you. The subjects that I suggest for
discussions I'm the only one you criticize. They're
"boring", and so on. You've picked on me from day one.
Even my mother who developed dementia was not exempt
from your attacks. And now the killing of Jews in
Lithuania> Really? You did n't bring up the Allied
War Crimes, or Maralinga, or the Frontier Wars,

You didn't bring up the fact that Lithuania lost 1
million people to deportations, executions,
incarceration, the murder of political opposition and
forced emigration. That 300,000 Lithuanians were
deported to merciless inhumanity in Siberia.

No. you didn't bring up any other atrocities. I was your
attempted target. So stop your excuses. You were, are,
and continue to be a very toxic, vile, little person.
And the sooner you leave this forum. The better this place
will be.

cont'd ...

There, now I've given you enough ammo for further
abuse. Go nuts!

Dear Chris Lewis,

You said; “I don't have to extend anything, especially any comment I made about another poster.”

If you wanted to reread and properly comprehend what I put you will see that you were quite welcome to do what ever you wanted but that it wouldn't be logical or rational to label Foxy rude without doing the same for me. Couldn't be simpler really.

Excuses? Excuses for what? You really are a sad case. Birthdays. Your mother and dementia. All your illnesses. Advising the moderator you were taking a break because you were "het up". This site is not about you. Get a life. Living through social media is pathetic. You need to spend more time with real people; or perhaps they have woken up to you too.

PS,

Your Freudian slip about my leaving was most interesting. What's the plan? Get rid of anyone who doesn't suck up to you? With nobody to taunt, and lay down the law to, you would be even more shrivelled up than you are now.

ttbn,

Wrong again.

I had to take a break due to health reasons (surgery).
Not that it's any of your business. Or anything to do
with my life. Or the way I post, or what I say.

Your mind was made up about me a long time
ago. And as I said - in your eyes I can do nothing right.
You've proven that over and over again on this forum.
And I've reached the stage where I will no longer tolerate
your behaviour. I will not be lectured to by the likes of
you.

So pick on someone else for a change.
If I am so insignificant
to you - why do you seem to care so much about how I post,
what I post, and so on. Why do you continue to push my
buttons? Your life must really be worse than anything you can
subscribe to me. Take your own advice and - get a life.
Leave mine alone. It should be of no concern to you whatsoever.

You don't know me. Nor ever will. So stick your opinions
about me - where the sun doesn't shine.
You're a bully and all you want to do is argue and fight.
Go to the pub to do that. Leave this forum alone.

cont'd ...

ttbn,

talking about being shrivelled? Your toxicity
speaks for itself - and my reference to your
leaving the forum - was simply to point out
that when toxic people such as yourself leave
discussion forums - its like the garbage took
itself out. (smile).

ttbn, mate, I gladly side with you many times on many topics, BUT, because this forum is hosted by those who are overly politically correct, and have definite and hard core views about certain subjects, races or creeds, I have pulled back, but not because I want to, because they are bullies and love throwing their weight around.
I have indicated that now I have realised how worthless this forum is in encouraging free speech and open discussions, but one of PC and oppression, I focus on other forums, but in the meantime looking at my own free speech medium in the form of visual and audio, thereby encouraging people to speak freely and candidly, and if they felt the need to abuse someone they can, because that is what THEY felt was necessary to make the point.
You are quite right about certain commentors, which you have already mentioned, and you are quite right in that it lowers the tone of this medium to a suck-fest, where everyone is telling each other how wonderful they are and continually agreeing with them even getting personal.
Someone, (the adjudicators) should get off their biased asses and instead of pulling people for using certain words, or language, which are quite acceptable in a court of law these days, and ping the ones you mention.
BTW, I have heard a whisper that OLO emanates from a law firm?
Any thoughts, comments or wait for it,..................OPINIONS?

If Foxy's last attempt at a comment, is any example, then we can now see what I and ttbn are trying to expose.
Where is continuity and administration of equality here.
No this forum is biased, but that's OK, we have known it for a long time and at least now we can finally confirm it once and for all.
Carry on.

ALTRAV,

So, let me get this straight.

You and ttbn should be allowed to say whatever you
guys want. Even abuse people - because that's merely
making a point. If the rest of us do it - we're
biased? Or "suck ups?"

You say that you believe in encouraging people to
speak "freely and candidly" except for me and others
of course. We're just "suck ups". Because our opinions
don't agree with yours or ttbn's.

OK. You say you believe in encouraging people to speak
freely and candidly (except for me of course - I get it),
and you even add that if people felt the need to abuse
someone you believe they can because that is what they
felt was necessary to make the point. Of course in your
mind it seems that it only applies to yourself and ttbn -
the rest of us - you guys find objectionable.

Seems to me that what you're expressing here is mainly
confirming your own biases - nothing more.
And your want the moderators of this forum to allow you
to continue to to just that. Otherwise you will continue
to call them names. Or start your own forum.

Right - it's crystal clear now - We get it.

Good luck with that.

Foxy, once more you get it wrong.
My so called indiscretions are justifiable because I am responding to something needing correction or highlighting.
All my descriptions are rhetorical and attempting to describe the authors intentions rather than her personally.
By calling someone a "maggot", do you seriously believe I actually mean she is a maggot?
Really?
I use words and phrases I am used to you use words and phrases you have been told to use, that's the difference.
I speak Australian, I have no idea what language you're talking.
Oh wait a minute, of course, it's PC!
Sorry, don't know that language.

ALTRAV,

No. the language that most of us use on this forum
is not PC. That's your interpretation and excuse
for foul language.

What you call PC we call
good manners and civility. And the language that
you use usually comes from someone with a limited
vocabulary and education. Who never learned to speak
English properly.

Using what's
considered as - "swear words" most people out grow.
Or they certainly don't use those words in every day
speech of in their correspondence.
And words like "maggots" to describe women you
don't know - or referring to female historians
as - " petulant prostitutes" sorry - those are not
terms that any normal person would use.
And no - it's not
"Australian"- to do so. Unless you're referring to
some - simple-minded - thugs or bogans -
who haven't developed very far mentally.

Same as - referring to people as -
"mental retards", and calling them a litany of all kinds of
derogatory names - is not normally part of
a normal persons speech. Yet you make excuses for it being
part of yours, and you object by the moderators of this
forum for pulling you up on it. You see to be under
the illusion that you don't have to comply by the rules
of this forum like the rest of us.

You've already being banned from this forum several times -
yet you appear not to have learned anything.
You have a tendency to always point
out the faults in others. Never acknowledging your own.

No wonder most people here avoid inter-acting with you.
It's a pointless waste of time talking to someone who
has a foul - mouth, and is never wrong.

Foxy, you use far too many words and expend far too much energy and effort to say the obvious.
Sometimes, very little, certainly things we have already heard.
If I am mature enough to accept who I am, I expect others to do the same, or simply ignore me, I don't force myself on anyone.
You seem far too emotional to be on forums, if you are so sensitive to someones OPINION!
As for the language I use, I will ask you to refrain from making any judgement calls about something you do not know about, have not been exposed to, or experienced yourself.
Whether or not YOU consider me to be a neanderthal, only makes for a bit of levity and nothing else.
If I have to defend myself or explain my descriptions, I suggest you look them up in the dictionary, where you will find that most of them are apt descriptions in keeping with the message.
The ones that are not, I choose to take license in using them to assist me in driving home the point, which will be relative to the intensity of the word used.
So once again Foxy, PLEASE ignore my postings.
I have shown you the courtesy and respect you have shown me and others, so I have nothing to be concerned about, although you, on the other hand are beginning to conduct yourself in a manner that will get you shut down, and if the adjudicators don't, it will confirm what we already sense about OLO and it's objectives or mission statement.

Wow, ttbn and now backed-up by ALTRAV,
You guys are in really good form, going straight for the jugular, hey.
And not a sensible thought between you.
Who else is going to join in?
Surely you guys need backup, to really twist the knife.

You poor, sorry blackguards who don't even know how to tie your shoe-laces without an instruction manual.

Why don't you both just get the message.
You have nothing to offer here.
ttbn is just a stirrer and misanthrope.
He is steering you astray with his hidden agenda, ALTRAV - not that you have ever really needed any encouragement with your uncoordinated blather.

The blessing of the presence of you both on this or any other forum is simply a blight on the concept of free speech. Still, it takes all kinds.

There, so now you know.

As for the subject of this thread, Labor threw money at school halls and pink batts, and left a massive debt - with inordinate follow-on perfunctory money-down-the-drain programs in furtherance of their incoherent no-return socialist ideologies - for a fiscally responsible Lib/Nat Coalition Government of genuine gentlemen and women to honour, and then to dig the economy out of the residual (Labor-made) debt.
With flying colours the Coalition succeeded in short shrift - and had the economy headed for surplus, and as close to full employment as we have seen in a very long time, and stacks of jobs available for those willing to have a go.

But, not for accomplished blokes like you.
I could be wrong of course, such is possible.

The Coalition is handling this pandemic crisis with astute economic integrity, to the benefit of all Australians, and have in-train an economic stimulus program which will ensure valuable work for all who want it, a more efficient and stable economy, and a fast return to surplus.

WOW, indeed saltpetre, what got up your proverbial?
More relevantly, what on earth makes you think that your comments are any more or less worthy than mine or anyone else's for that matter.
I am surprised as you speak well in describing the debacle that is the labor party, and in holding the Libs/Nats at a well deserved higher level.
Your criticism of myself, or anyone else for that matter, is at best disingenuous, but I would appreciate clarity and enlightenment on your accusations, otherwise it is you who is a blight on the concept of free speech.
My speech is exactly what it is, I say exactly what I mean, your attempt to disparage me and my lack of linguistic skills, speaks loud and clear about you and your arrogant virtue shaming, bile.
It is people like you who should not be allowed to comment on forums, you are the one who should be removed and admonished for attacking people in such a vial and unprovoked manner.
I attack in response to some fools idiotic rhetoric and moronic opinion, so I have a basis for my language, you on the other hand have taken it upon yourself to speak disparagingly about me, in complete ignorance of myself and my reasons for my responses.
Oh and BTW, in keeping with YOUR theme of ignorance and arrogance, I wish to advise you that even though I am not a "black guard", you on the other hand have proven BY YOUR OWN HAND, that YOU are THE BLAGGARD!

Salty, I can't accept the Labor bad, Coalition good, line you push when dealing with economic cries. The GFC was not of Labor's doing, The Rudd government acted appropriately with spending in avoiding recession (high unemployment), Australia being one of only a handful of countries to do so. The Labor debt caused little pain for Australia and was entirely manageable. When taking office the Coalition rather than reducing debt, which was their public mantra, they drove the debt up to record levels. The Coalition had the gall to blame their frivolous spending from 2013 to 2019 on Labor

What I ask now is, has the Coalitions economic response to the pandemic been appropriate. These glib terms for massive spending programs, 'Jobkeeper', 'Jobseeker', cash handouts, business loans and support packages. In less than half a year the Coalition has managed to create an astronomical debt, that will be with us for many years to come. There has been some glaring examples of wasteful spending, $1500/fortnight to people who would otherwise receive less than a couple of hundred in that time. Business owners fudging the books to get government handouts. The $1500 spending stimulus to pensioners, in 85% of cases the money has gone straight into the bank, no cash spending to boost demand as was expected. According to the Coalition the waste was justified on the grounds of "we had to get the money out quick smart", no not so, for three weeks they wouldn't even entertain a wage subsidy, claiming it was unnecessary. Lets face it Morrison pinned his hopes on a "snap back" in the economy to avoid the "fiscal cliff", no such snap back will eventuate. Instead of millions going over the fiscal cliff in September, many are going to be left dangling over the edge for a time, before the government cuts them off completely! Welcome to the land of a trillion dollar debt, which by this time next year we will have absolutely nothing positive to show for it! Thanks to some very poor economic management by the Coalition.

ALTRAV,

I take my hat off to you - I stand duly rebuked.
Mind you, your latching onto the bootstraps of ttbn, in his inane vomitous rampage, is not a good look for you, and does you a disservice.

You are better than that.
When you have addressed an issue, you have contributed some perspective, but running off on conspiracies, or forever racing to justify some unjustifiable side-issue proclamation, mostly provokes a negative reaction.

Take care, and have a good day.

Paul,

Can't help you. You are wrong.
Rethink. Re-writing history in Rudd's image doesn't wash.

Dear Saltpetre,

You wrote;

"As for the subject of this thread, Labor threw money at school halls and pink batts, and left a massive debt - with inordinate follow-on perfunctory money-down-the-drain programs in furtherance of their incoherent no-return socialist ideologies - for a fiscally responsible Lib/Nat Coalition Government of genuine gentlemen and women to honour, and then to dig the economy out of the residual (Labor-made) debt.
With flying colours the Coalition succeeded in short shrift - and had the economy headed for surplus, and as close to full employment as we have seen in a very long time, and stacks of jobs available for those willing to have a go."

Thanks mate, that was a ripper. Nearly snorted tea over me crumpets. Lol.

Paul is right to question the National Cabinet and in particular the Governments dishing out of billions upon billions for our grand children to pay back. Personally I think the world's economies are not far from collapsing. Call it conspiracy but the global elite are getting their way. I hope I am wrong. Tight lockdowns have proven to be a disaster and are just pushing the problem down the track. When we have an envitable third, fourth, fifth outbreak we will continue with this stupidity of lockdowns. If a vaccine does become available the labs in China are well equipped to release another strain. Just saying.

At the end of the day doing deals with social premiers (applauded by most) will be the ruin of the nation. The hard unpopular choices of locking away the vulnerable while allowing the healthy to continue to work and produce would of been much much smarter. Still no Government worker lost a cent? Amazing.

One thing that I can say without contradiction: Saltpetre is a liar. He said that he would not bother me again, but here he is, again, whining about me and adding ALTRAV to his hate list.

SR, you opined,

"As to history supporting the lockdown it is becoming clear how much high death rates have impacted economies. It will all come out in the wash but I doubt history will look kindly on the more open approaches if a vaccine is secured within the year"

Please direct me to any study showing a causal link between death rate (fatalities per thousand, say) and economic impact. The fact is something less than 2 deaths per thousand population will accompany reaching herd-immunity and I doubt this would have a significant economic impact. Meanwhile, dreams of a vaccine (by year's end?!) in hope of the elimination position being upheld should not be the basis of policy.

Watched '60 Minutes' and a couple of old codgers telling us how character-building the coming depression will be for younger folk, almost as if lockdown is doing them a favour when in fact it's the old codgers receiving the immense favour so they can get on with their lives as normal (or so it seemed until Victoria, Covid will keep coming until herd-immunity is reached.

A friend, prefacing her comments with the fact she has no children, told me, "if lockdown saves one life it will have been worth it", and, "the debt of previous generations has 'always' been carried by the next" (BTW, I'd distinguish between avoidable and unavoidable debt, with what we are imposing through parking the economy fitting into the former category). This injects ethics and philosophy into the discussion and to imply folks are almost eugenicists for opposing waves of lockdown with life and death impacts is simplistic nonsense.

The economist Gigi Foster (60 Minutes) points out that ALL pathways have economic and therefore life-span impacts. Of course they set out to paint her as a heartless bitch, good Sunday fodder, but we have to have a more sensible discussion than a simple emotive one, one based on data and facts. Again, SR, studies please.

'"if lockdown saves one life it will have been worth it", '

yeah one of the dumbest statements ever. If no one ever went in water their would be no drowning, if no one ever drove in a car their would be no road deaths Sounds like a statement from one of the 'experts'.

runner,

Totally agree with your 'dumbest comment ever' observation. Our economy has been wrecked to 'save' people who were on the way out anyway. And it's the youngest ones who were never at risk of death who are going to have to foot the bill for years to come.

As millions of Australians feel the pain of losing their jobs, and the financial hardship it brings, a bunch of LIBERAL POLITICIANS in South Australia have been cough with their hands in the taxpayer till. These reprobates have milked the taxpayer of tens of thousands of dollars. The penalty, sacking from cabinet, and having to pay the money back. I ask is that a reasonable penalty in these very tough times?

Paul,

SERIOUSLY?
REALLY?
C'mon mate don't play that card, you know very well ALL politicians are bent and thieving liars.
I've witnessed a very humble well intentioned man enter politics a very naive saint like demeanor.
What came out the other end was not the same person.
Was he acting on the way in?
Was he truly what came out in the end, only "putting it on" to get elected?
That is partly why I hate politicians, ALL OF THEM!
They cannot be trusted, period!
That's why I arc up when someone sings songs of praise and worship when referring to one of these, better regarded as, "filth".
If you need to be convinced it would take too long using this forum, but suffice to say that once you are "IN" you tow the line or you will never get a word or a bill through edge wise.
Why do you think so many major contracts are given to offshore companies?
Because it is near impossible to trace the "dirty money trail" in a foreign country.
So you can imagine the feeling of rancor and utter disgust, when I hear naive, immature, and childish description of a minister, "The HONOURABLE, the minister".
HONOURABLE my arse.

'As millions of Australians feel the pain of losing their jobs, and the financial hardship it brings, a bunch of LIBERAL POLITICIANS in South Australia have been cough with their hands in the taxpayer till. '

shows how deep the entitlement culture as gone. Certainly this mob would not come close to Chairman Dan's bunch of incompetent and dishonest marxist but a disgrace all the same.

SR, you opined,

"As to history supporting the lockdown it is becoming clear how much high death rates have impacted economies. It will all come out in the wash but I doubt history will look kindly on the more open approaches if a vaccine is secured within the year"

Please direct me to any study showing a causal link between death rate (fatalities per thousand, say) and economic impact. The fact is something less than 2 deaths per thousand population will accompany reaching herd-immunity and I doubt this would have a significant economic impact. Meanwhile, dreams of a vaccine (by year's end?!) in hope of the elimination position being upheld should not be the basis of policy.

Watched '60 Minutes' and a couple of old codgers telling us how character-building the coming depression will be for younger folk, almost as if lockdown is doing them a favour when in fact it's the old codgers receiving the immense favour so they can get on with their lives as normal (or so it seemed until Victoria, Covid will keep coming until herd-immunity is reached.

A friend, prefacing her comments with the fact she has no children, told me, "if lockdown saves one life it will have been worth it", and, "the debt of previous generations has 'always' been carried by the next" (BTW, I'd distinguish between avoidable and unavoidable debt, with what we are imposing through parking the economy fitting into the former category). This injects ethics and philosophy into the discussion and to imply folks are almost eugenicists for opposing waves of lockdown with life and death impacts is simplistic nonsense.

The economist Gigi Foster (60 Minutes) points out that ALL pathways have economic and therefore life-span impacts. Of course they set out to paint her as a heartless bitch, good Sunday fodder, but we have to have a more sensible discussion than a simple emotive one, one based on data and facts. Again, SR, studies please.

solar01,

I hope you are not using this medium/forum to advertise in, because it's not allowed, and what we have found is that anyone who flaunts this rule usually gets punished by negative public feedback and criticism.
If the adjudicators don't get to you first and remove it, I suggest you beat them to the gun, unless you want to be a marked man.
There's a good lad.

In the state with the highest unemployment South Australia, another LIBERAL has been caught with his snout in the taxpayer trough. That makes it 5 in a week, and more to come!