Thanks David and Foxy,

"Sticks and Stones ..." If speech can be such as to promote violence against others, with a clear intention to so do, then I decry it as unacceptable - and possibly criminal. ('White Supremacy', or even some aspects of BLM.)

If meant to belittle, I call it bullying, and still decry it. (Homophobia, Misogyny, Misandry, Islamophobia, Antisemitism.)

If speech (or action) is meant to assert superiority of rights, of 'place' in human genomic architecture or in ecclesiastical birthright (God's Children, Chosen Ones) I call it brainwashed or delusional; and decry it as potentially inciting intolerance, racism, and counter-reaction from 'outsiders'.

Stick your head too high, and someone may take a shot at it.

Most delusions are hopefully not harmful, but some can invoke a strong reaction. I have such a reaction (not very strong - mostly head-shaking) regarding the case of 'Malka Leifer' and those who fight so strenuously against her extradition to face criminal charges in Aus.
I also feel strongly against special 'enclaves' where purportedly what I, and the common law, would consider criminal activities are undertaken with relative impunity (and purportedly accepted as common practice), where police are not permitted to enter (by decision and direction of the 'authorities'), but are, unbelievably to me, not only tolerated but actually 'accepted' by the rest of the local community. Staggering.

I must be a bigot, because I see all of humanity as equal, as sharing a fundamental common genome, and as having equal rights. The fact that many have very few rights is shameful, and demanding correction. However, power and Capitalism rule, and for success, some are forced to remain 'at the bottom'. Nuts.

I react badly to ultra-orthodox anything.
I am unhappy with Netanyahu's approval of new settlements on Arab land - contrary to international agreement, contrary to 'the peace process' - and plans for the West Bank.
I am annoyed by Erdogan's plans for the 'Hagia Sophia'.

Myanmar, Tibet, West Papua, ISIS, Taliban ... - 'man's inhumanity'.

Deceit - 'weapons of mass destruction'.

What chance for Peace, physical or mental?

Yuyutsu,

my reason for asking about science and it's reliability, is directly related to the many things that are attributed to scientific studies and are promoted or published as fait accompli, and then we are all expected to act on the scientists conclusions without a shred of material evidence but theories and assumptions, such as the Qld Govt dismissing the theory of future ocean rises.
Just considering the broader view or the more realistic view.
Thank you for your comments, I know I have strayed off topic, it was intentional as the opportunity appeared so I took it while it was available.

On the subject of hate speech.
Some on here believe they are the virtuous kind who speak against free speech and try to sell it as hate speech, well as she feels that the recipient of said speech is the judge AND JURY on whether or not the speaker has engaged in hate speech.
Well if that's the case, I accuse Foxy and Allan of engaging in hate speech.
Now I have just made a statement which according to these two, I must be believed because I felt aggrieved by their continual antagonistic comments and verbal attacks which made me uncomfortable and to feel hurt and scared.
Now how did that come across, YES it is hypothetical, but it is an example of how anyone pushing against free speech is being unrealistic and foolish.
I think I have made a case against simple and naive interpretation of, in this case, freedom of speech, or more precisely, alleged hate speech.

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Dear ALTRAV,

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You wrote :

« … one which is typically arrogant … are the elite Jews … Who the hell do these freaks think they are? … I am saying it again, WATCH OUT, these bastards are mental retards and they are amongst the most dangerous race/cult on earth …

« I didn't write this stuff, others did, so please go and attack the authors not the messenger. Are we clear now, once and for all ? »
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If I understand you correctly, ALTRAV, you claim to be the spokesperson of right-wing propagandists exposing what they consider to be “elite Jewish” conspirators known as “the Illuminati”.

And, if, as I imagine, you assume this role voluntarily, you obviously share their ideas and objectives. It cannot be otherwise. At no point did you make the slightest effort to distance yourself from the propaganda. Quite the contrary, you enforce it by adding “WATCH OUT”.

Conspiratorial theories of so-called Illuminati (“the enlightened one”) have been imagined to exist in many countries around the world, linked to fundamentalist Catholic organisations, the Antichrist of Christian eschatology, Freemasonry, a "Fourth Reich" New World Order, Occultism of the Christian right, and various other right-wing populist movements led by demagogues who mobilise support for mob rule or even a fascist revolution by exploiting the fear of conspiracies (Wikipedia).

Why then, do you focus on the “elite Jews” ALTRAV ? The obvious answer to that is because the “authors” (whom you say you represent) are promoting antisemitism. I find it difficult to imagine that that thought did not occur to you. You strike me as being a perfectly articulate person endowed with an above-average IQ.

Also, I’m sure you have not forgotten that Graham Young, the editor of OLO, indicated not so long ago, that he was considering excluding you from this forum for an incident similar to this one.

You pleaded with him, at the time, not to exclude you as you were simply “the messenger” relaying the thoughts, ideas and writings of others.

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(Continued …)

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(Continued …)

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This is the second incident of an antisemitic nature, ALTRAV. Three strikes and you’re out.

I, for one, will request your exclusion from this forum if there is a third incident.

Also, I note that you have not yet presented your excuses to Foxy and David f. for your offensive ad hominem remarks on this thread.

That too will weigh heavily in my decision.

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Dear Banjo and Foxy,

You have called for posters to ignore ALTRAV or to have him banned from olo for his obnoxious remarks. You have risen in righteous indignation.

There is a Jewish joke about a rabbi with a beautiful wife during czarism. He came home unexpected to see a Russian officer leave through a window. The rabbi stormed into the house and said, “Woman, what are you doing?”

She said, “Isn’t it true that the Messiah will come when we’re all good or all bad?”

He stroked his beard and said, “Yes.”

She continued, “Do you think we’re ever going to be all good?”

ALTRAV may be trying to bring the Messiah.