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The Forum > General Discussion > Initiative for peace

Initiative for peace

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Each time Australians have had to sacrifice their needs for those outside of Australia. It has always been contentious. Often large businesses (including Universities) have disproportionately benefited. It seems that perhaps immigrants have been a mechanism of transferring wealth from the poor to the rich.

Thank you for your comments Foxy.

Comment by Joe Loudmouth
Paraphrasing…
Who is host? Jewish people have been embedded in many countries for a long time. Jewish people couldn’t own land. A majority proportion of Jewish people were killed in Nazi Germany and Europe. CM list your relations and pick out two to survive. CM your remarks are crass and unlearned.

Joe Loudmouth- I will try to answer these today. Thank you for your interesting questions
Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 19 July 2020 1:37:27 PM
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Canem Malum,

Correction:

We used to get in our history books - "The First Fleet
arrived. It brought 1000 English convicts". It didn't.
It brought 1000 convicts but they came from a dozen
different countries. As somebody put it so delightfully,
"English jails were no respecters of nationality".

The first Italian arrived on January 26, 1788 -
Giuseppe Tuso. There were people from South Africa, there
were people from Ceylon, from India, from Spain, from
Portugal, from Hungary. So when people ask -
"Do you believe Australia should become a multicultural
society?" I always reply,
"It doesn't matter what I think. I can tell you what it is,
which is a society of tremendous diversity".

In many schools, 90 percent of the students speak a language
other than English as their first language. And today schools
are no longer emphasizing teaching about Australia's ties
with England and the Commonwealth. Foreign languages are
part and parcel of our current school systems.

The Queen's
portrait no longer hangs on school walls. "God Save The
Queen" is no longer played in our movie theatres and at
other events. Our Olympic Sports people on winning medals
now have their own country's anthem played - and not the
British one. Times have changed. And inevitably this will
continue.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 19 July 2020 1:52:07 PM
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loudmouth2,

I read your post with interest, and it revived the age old question, if we are on the subject of Jews.
Why is it, do you think, that the Jews have such a reputation as they do, (I dare not word it any other way), and have had for as long as can be remembered?
Again referring to history, they have been too focused on wealth and power possibly, and along the way have done some things and held views contrary to the expectations of the majority, choosing instead to isolate themselves from social equality and inclusivity.
Another somewhat conflicting situation which can be argued between a paradox and an oxymoron, is the case where Jesus Christ was a Jew, and yet rejected by the Jews to later become the Christian Messiah, and not the Jewish one.
I would have thought that Christianity and Judaism would be at odds.
I have over time become more aware of the way Jews are perceived by the public at large, even though I believe it to be focused at the more public and wealthier of them, not the Jews in general.
There is a school of thought that held the view that these Jewish "elites" were too aggressive in their methods of accumulating wealth, and in doing so were ostracised and kept getting driven out, so they changed their asset base to gold and that way when they were forced to move, they did not compromise their wealth.
I wonder if the case actually was not that they were not allowed to own land, but the fact that they were "persona non grata", and knew their time at any location was tenuous at best.
This perception was eventually directed at and applied to ALL Jews.
Posted by ALTRAV, Sunday, 19 July 2020 1:58:27 PM
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Interesting... not complete- possibly not completely accurate but perhaps useful in understanding the Jewish diaspora and their relationship with the world.

History of Jews in 5 Minutes - Animation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIYHMdOr5Aw

The Polish- Lithuanian Empire and Russian Empires seem prominent though the Jewish diaspora are not unique in having an unstable history- British history being one example.

Britain sponsored the Balfour Declaration for the Jewish State yet now British countries are under attack
Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 19 July 2020 2:45:37 PM
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Dear Foxy,

You wrote:

“However, the Holocaust should not be consigned to history.”

Dear Foxy,

I appreciate your good will along with your desire for a better world, but the fact is that the Holocaust is history. History is an account of what happened in the past. It is history along with the Rhineland massacres of the Jews during the Crusades and other instances of massacres of Jews. I am acutely aware of history. Many members of my family ended up in gas chambers, but it still is history. It was a raw wound, but raw wounds heal over in time.

We see many monuments to the dead of Australia’s wars. Some of those monuments ensure us that they will be remembered forever. That is nonsense. There is probably nobody alive who actually remembers a veteran of the Boer War.

You also wrote: “And, today in our society there remains a degree of
antisemitism in addition to levels of xenophobia, Islamophobia,
of black and asian communities and other ethnic minorities.

Quite a few recent surveys have shown these prejudices to be
on the rise. Look at the Black Lives Matter movement. It is
therefore important to remember the Holocaust because it is an
example of how these prejudices and trends could evolve into
something more threatening.”

Unfortunately, many will not connect the Holocaust with persecution of others. If anybody should remember the Holocaust it is the Jewish people. In Israel today the Holocaust is a living presence. However, in Israel there is prejudice against non-Jews, against Jews of differing ethnicities and against Jews of differing ideologies.

From my observations remembering the Holocaust does nothing to eliminate prejudice. I would eliminate all forms of prejudice, but I don’t know how to do it.
Posted by david f, Sunday, 19 July 2020 2:52:00 PM
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Dear David,

I don't believe that hate speech
should be protected under the guise of freedom of speech.
No right is absolute - especially if it does harm
to others.

Preconceptions and prejudices, and the rejection, or the
fear of someone because he or she is different, is not
"one of us", is still virulent all around us. And I am not
going to be quiet when I hear or see it being practiced.
I will continue to call it out.

That's why I feel strongly that remembering the Holocaust
is important. we need to hear the stories, we need to listen,
and share and learn what happened to ensure it doesn't happen again.

If the human rights of one group are violated. No group can
feel safe. We may not be able to eliminate
all forms of prejudice - but we need to not allow the
prejudice to go unchallenged.

This is something I feel very strongly about, and although I
do respect your opinion. This is an issue about which I
feel very strongly.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 19 July 2020 3:44:25 PM
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