Augusto Zimmermann wonders why we cannot see that the China virus has been “ingeniously used” to scare, brainwash and control entire populations to “the point of house arrest”. No-one is discounting the seriousness of the China virus, but the draconian, panic-stricken way it has been handled is an economy-wrecking disaster. And, what about after?

As examples of the overreaction and the closing down of economies, he offers the following:

In the hot bed of the virus, New York City,

1.Only 1.7% of people in their seventies who have contracted the disease were sick enough to be hospitalised.
2.Of 18 years-olds 0.01% were hospitalised.
3.Of 18-44 year-olds 0/01% were hospitalised.

It’s different in Australia, but almost none of the things we were threatened with have occurred. In Australia, there has been no informed debate permitted. Since March this year, Australia has been ruled by executive decree. We have effectively been a police state, although not quite - we can still say such things. For now.

We have experienced:

Loss of elementary rights
Excessive police power
Dobbing in
Mass media support for the regime.

All “temporary” of course, but so were were suspensions of freedoms in 1930s Germany. It took a world war to nullify them.

The most unlikely people are now praising PM Morrison’s actions. ‘He’s doing a good job’. ‘He’s protecting us. Same applied to Adolf Hitler until it was too late.

“Those who think that the state is always benign clearly have no understanding of history”. Temporary measures and policies do often have a way of becoming permanent after the emergency is over. Already we are hearing about the “new normal”. This might sound over-the-top; not possible in Australia.

Maybe.

Ttbn,

Have another look at your post of today in a month's time.

Australia is about to join with NZ in opening up our economies, tourism, etc. How has that come about ? Because Morrison had the determination to come down hard early and lock-down, not like that moron in the US who knows less than nothing but wants to somehow control it all - except when it gets too hard, then he can pass the buck onto governors, etc. So when will the US open up ? This year ? Next year ? After a million deaths there from the virus ?

Check this thread out on June 5th, a month's time: we'll see where Australia is, where China is and where the US is, in relation to their control of the virus and the reopening of their international supply chains.

Joe

Joe,

You don't mention the subject of my post: political power and the "temporary" restriction of freedoms.

We'll see in a month or so.

Oh there you go again Joe. Let your TDS obscure any rational thought. Were you one of those calling Trump racist for stopping flights from China or was that just the democrats and who. Also if you were going to make some comparisons of death rates why no mention of Italy, the UK or Spain. Oh that's right being rational counts for little when you get your info from the lying liberal left media. Your obsession with Trump is rally not healthy.

See what, Joe? What I actually said, or about trade, which I did not mention. It's going to take a lot longer than a month to see what happens to the new powers the government and bureaucrats have assumed for themselves, frightening people into submission, and now trying to cover up their stupid errors and incompetence by dragging out the restrictions in the hope that we might forget what power mad bozos they are. Telling us that, if we are good little children, and download an app, they just might reward is. The bozos haven't told anyone that the app is not yet operational, nor that smart phones older than two or three years cannot download the app. Then there are the people who don't have a mobile, or the ones like me who have a basic one that is just a phone and nothing else.

Rather than worrying yourself about Donald Trump, Joe, perhaps you should start worrying about our own 'leader', hiding behind 'experts' instead of doing the job he was elected to do. You are smarter than you are making out to be this instance. Morrison is a bigger dictator than Trump, without the balls to stick his own neck out, as Trump does.

'Morrison is a bigger dictator than Trump, without the balls to stick his own neck out, as Trump does.'

not sure I would go that far ttbn although the Stalinist Premiers are showing huge cracks in the National cabinet. Any Government refusing to pull out of the Paris fraud is plain gutless.

Ttbn,

Tried the strong light remedy lately ? Or disinfectant ? Don't worry, it will all be back to business by Easter.

So once the lock-down is lifted here, when will Australia (and NZ, and China, Taiwan, South Korea) get back to 'normal' ? By Christmas ? And without lock-downs in the US, the UK, Brasil and Sweden, will they ever really get back to 'normal' ? At what human cost ?

Thank god for Morrison. And Ardern ;)

Joe

Joe,

I don't understand why you dodge the issue of power and freedom. Ah, well. Perhaps you have returned to your totalitarian upbringing. You have decided that you like to have Big Brother tell you what to do all the time:). I recall a certain poster saying that she thought Morrison had dictatorial qualities at the time he got the job. She might have been right.

runner,

I have never liked Morrison. I don't think he should have got the job. He was OK as Immigration Minister, but as Treasurer and now PM, I have no time for him at all. He stands for nothing but Scott Morrison. Many conservatives say, "Well, I suppose he's better than Turnbull". I can't even say that any more. I think he is as big an arse in a different way. He is most certainly not a conservative; closer to the Leftish authoritarianism. Just my opinion of course; but Dutton was the man who should have got the job.

Ttbn,

No I don't think that Morrison is a dictator, but actually a very good capitalist, and a strong democratic leader when the country needs one. As soon as this crisis is over, and long before it is over in the UK, US, Europe, Russia, Turkey or Brasil, we'll barely hear anything from him.

Of course, if you want a would-be dictator to tell you what to do, try the strong lamp treatment. Do it often.

Joe

One of the aftermaths of the the China virus beyond our control will be the use of its effects on the rest of the world by the CCP.

The Australian Strategic Policy Institute says that the Communist Party is trying to turn the consequences of their virus into a “weaponising strategy” for itself. Though the virus might not have been deliberately released, China “most certainly” has biological warfare programs.

Through the spread of the virus, the CCP is trying to gain advantage against other countries, as well as trying to distract its own population. Once China was aware of the virus and its severity, it took steps to see how it could emerge from the crisis better off than other countries.

South Australia, as usual, has led the other states: there have been no new cases of Coronavirus for fourteen days now; and only two cases still in hospital. If the other states had followed SA, apart from the clusters at Newmarch near Penrith and at Cedar Meats in Melbourne, the whole of Australia could have moved towards the relaxation of lock-down restrictions, and thought seriously about co-operating economically with New Zealand.

We may never 'eliminate' the virus - that's a wild goose chase - but we can certainly repress it, as SA has amply shown. So instead of going down the brutal and crypto-fascist path of seeking some illusory 'herd immunity', and destroying our health system and wiping out our health professionals, it is now free to get on with treating other ailments.

Well done, Mr Wade and Mr Marshall !

Joe

Dear Joe,

Just a small correction: SA still has two cases isolating in their homes, not in hospital: the two in hospital no longer have the virus, but are still recuperating from their difficult experience in ICU ventilation.

As for credits, it rather belongs to the people of SA who did not wait for politicians to tell them what to do, but acted with sense much earlier.

As to the disruption to everyday health services, that mistake was made by government, not by the people - it will cost more in health and lives in the months to come than the virus itself.

Yuyutsu,

Thanks for that - so SA has no cases in hospital, and certainly no patients on ventilators or respirators, and only two isolated at home, while the US has 1.2 million cases.

SA has implemented lock-downs, while the US, to the extent one can say they have any coherent policy at all, is pursuing a laissez-faire, do what you want, 'herd immunity' approach.

I wonder if SA should have followed the US model. Gosh, shouldn't we have had tens of thousands of cases by now ? Instead of two ?

Joe

Hi Joe,

A couple of the forums 'Usual Suspect' seem genuinely disappointed that Australia doesn't have 10,000 plus deaths from Covid-19. After all if you're going to spend $200 billion you want some results.

Is Donald Trump a liar, claiming to have evidence that China created the virus in a Wuhan lab. WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE.

Dear Joe,

One could wonder whether it was luck or providence, but the people of SA found the golden moderate, optimal middleground.

Both countries and states that were more lenient and countries and states that were more strict are suffering more AND have more casualties.

The fact is that there is a limit to what restrictions people are able and willing to take: cross that line and all will be broken. Also, people are willing to sacrifice more when they do so conscientiously, of their own volition and understanding the objective situation. When instead you impose restrictions on people by force, you will receive no cooperation and will need to increasingly use your whip until your whip too will wear out and have no power.

South Australia never imposed a legal lock-down (staying at home remained only a "strong recommendation" and meetings of up to 10 people were not prohibited), but ordinary families effectively went into a stronger lock-down than their counterparts in other states, not because they had to but because they genuinely care for their elderly members and friends.

A good question asked today by a commentator:

"Why did Australia get such an ERSATZ conservative as prime minister in 2018 after the disastrous premiership and ignominious exit of Malcolm Turnbull? He who heads a “cabal of chancers and second raters”, as one political pundit has termed the Morrison Government".

Part of the answer lies with the fact that half the Liberal party room is still made up of Turnbull clones - the "chancers and second raters". Morrison has clearly shown that Australian politicians are 'all socialists now'. It's much easier to buy votes than it is to stand for something and work for something.

Is anybody taking note that the world's experts are saying that there will be a second wave of the pandemic due to the proposed easing of the restrictions and that the reality is that no one will be safe from infection until a vaccine has been developed.

Ask Soot 'Beam up me Scotty' Morrison if he can guarantee your safety against infection if you follow his directions. If he cannot then I suggest staying inside your bubble (if you're lucky enough to have one.)

When people follow what Soot is telling them I reckon there will be two groups: (1) those who work in a protected environment and/or can work at home, and (2) those who are compelled to venture into unsafe workplaces, public transport, etc., because they are desperate to earn money.

So ask Soot to guarantee your safety. I bet he won't!

The ATO is investigating fraudulent schemes around the government's encouragement to access superannuation following the official trashing of jobs and the economy. 450,000 people have applied to dip into their super.

Identities have been stolen, and the wrong people are trying to get other people's money. Not at all surprising. Another unanticipated result of scatter gun Morrison's actions.

Mr. O,

Just be a good boy and get the app, and all will be well. Big Brother Scott will look after you for ever, and ever.

ttbn,

Where's the legislation protecting people's rights? Why is there no legislation protecting people's rights?

Is it because the government wants to find and be able to detain asymptomatic carriers in quarantine for the rest of their lives if necessary?

Look at the most famous case study, that of Typhoid Mary in New York in the early 1900s, who was arrested and spent the last 25 years of her life imprisoned in quarantine isolation.

Yes. Poor old Mary, I remember her well.

Perhaps we don't really have any rights? It's all a hoax? Cardinal Pell would have assumed he had the right to reasonable doubt, but the Victorian Inquisition - sorry - Court didn't think so. His rights had to be handed back by the High Court. Apparently, 99.9% of us couldn't get near the High Court if the same thing happened to us. I see the Royal Commission has 'found' that Cardinal Pell "probably" knew of child abuse in the Catholic Church. That means they don't have a clue. Anyway, why would a Royal Commission be any more reliable than the system that jailed an innocent man.

Back to the topic. The ATO warned the government that accessing super funds would have serious security problems, but they were ignored. The PM listens to the alleged health experts, but not the money experts when it comes to trying to buy votes from people who are not going to vote for him just because they say he's doing a good job. They can be get more out of Albo all the time.

In the meantime, Scott's fabulous superannuation will be there waiting for him when the results of his economic castrophe start to bite, and he gets the big A from the people now telling them he is their saviour.

Taxpayers fund Tourism Australia for things that TA is not willing to fund itself. Something around $170 million a year.

Federal Government has closed the borders and shut down international tourism indefinitely; but 215 TA staff who on average earn over $150k, and executives on an average of $450,000 have nothing to do.

Why haven't they been made redundant and put on JobKeeper allowance like everyone else? Tourism could be non-existent for a long time yet.

There are undoubtedly many other public servants doing little or nothing enjoying the same discriminatory treatment.

All in it together - pig's arse.

ttbn,

From what I have heard on the news over the last two days it appears to me that the Commission was adamant in its view that Pell had covered up the activities of pedophile clergymen and had deliberately hid it from the authorities in order to protect clergymen from prosecution. What sort of person does that?

Mr. O,

'Adamant' usually means pig-headed. As someone pointed out last night, whatever the RC came up with, it's just an opinion.

We will never know what what George Pell did know or didn't know during the period in question. Remember, he was a young priest, and the Commission was trying to hold him accountable for the lack of action by an Archbishop.

ttbn,

I think most people will believe the findings of the Commission and will refuse to believe anything Pell has to say in his own defence because the report has come out and basically called Pell a wrongdoer and a liar.

I think this will give a lot of ammunition to people looking to take civil action against Pell and the Pells Angels. And this time the Commission's findings and conclusions will be able to be used in the courts.

The Vatican was able to get Pell a shortened prison sentence only to find it has now left itself open to massive $$$$ damages claims against it. This is the thing when people do wrong - the wrong just never goes away and all the lies cannot blind us from the truth.

The Vatican was not able to "get" anything for the Cardinal. They and the Australian Catholic church didn't even contribute to his costs. He and friends paid the lot.

ttbn,

I hope the Vatican has deep pockets because I think there will be a lot of people seeking damages following the disclosure of the Commission's findings and conclusions.

And who knows, they might even throw Pell back in the slammer.

Mr. O

If people are out for money - which is the the primer mover for these claims of historical abuse - they will need hard evidence, not just the opinions coming from a Royal Commission. Besides, since the debacle of wrongful imprisonment, the Cardinal might be looking to get a few bob from Victoria. It would be a very brave or hungry lawyer who would go after the Catholic church on what amounts to hearsay. Just because they didn't stick up for George doesn't mean that the Church will want to hand money over to alleged victims. The Catholic church is like any other huge bureaucracy - a different kettle of fish from its priests, who are actual human beings like all of us.

Frankly, I don't care what happens after the unanimous High Court decision. The moaning and groaning of alleged victims and their minders scrabbling for money is of no interest to me.

Sinclair Davidson wrote this morning that:-

"All the luvvies who were out and about crapping on about the sanctity of jury trials and only juries can make findings of fact are crapping on about findings made by the Royal Commission."

No doubting what old Sinc thinks about the 'crappers'. He continues:'

"Let’s be clear – this is the opinion of the Royal Commission. If it were possible to make that stick in a court of law – even when you can run a secret trial, and keep retrying until you get a jury verdict you like, advertise for witnesses who can video tape their evidence, and the defence cannot reveal the inadequacies of the witness – the Victoria Police and/or Victorian criminal justice system would have brought charges based on that allegation. They didn’t."

The left tried it on. They played hard and dirty. They lost

Something that is undeniable when one looks at the stats, and the government responses to the Cornoavirus world wide, the greatest failures among the Western democracies are those governments led by conservatives. In Britain where the outcome is now the worst in Europe, the government of Bug Ridden Boris has been a complete failure. In the United states the conservative government of Dangerous Doctor Donald is a disaster. In Australia, NSW under the leadership of Gladys has been the worse performer of all states and territories, as it was with the bushfires.

The problem with conservatives is, in an emergency they get the priorities wrong, they are to conservative. Then at best they are reactive, when they need to be proactive, Boris and Donald are prime examples of conservative failures. What no country needs in a time of crises is a conservative government.

Paul it is a little different in the US. There it is state governors who control the health system in their state, & the closing of boarders between states, not the president. Actually mayors of cities can go their own way, so it is the democrat management of New York city & state you should be blaming for the worse result in the US.

Do you remember when Trump banned flights from China, he was labeled a racist by the democrats? No I thought you would conveniently forget that.

I agree it is hard to believe that the UK can still have open boarders, but that is the recommendation of their highest bureaucratic medical establishment. "Yes minister" is still very much the fact in UK today.

So. Paul agrees with me that Morrison and his motley crew are not conservatives, and that's why socialists think they have done such a jolly good job of handling the China virus, handing out other people's money, and wrecking the economy.

"Paul agrees with me that Morrison and his motley crew are not conservatives," AND ain't we lucky for that small mercy ttbn.

"Trump banned flights from China" Yes he did Hassy. Was that because of the virus, or was it an opportunity to have a go at China. He also said the coronavirus was nothing more than the flu, the problem would go away by Easter, and drinking disinfectant might be a good idea. Your hero does not have much going for him, does he.

As the soup kitchens dry up, and the death toll rises in the land of the free, and the home of the brave, Dangerous Doctor Donald is ordering Americas working poor back into the sweat shops in a desperate attempt to restore diminishing corporate profits at the expense of the lives of the poorest in the country. With no socialistic safety net like we have in Australia, Americas poor are doomed!

Paul,

Now you admit that the Morrison government is not conservative, who are you going to blame for everything you disagree with. You can no longer blame conservatism for the country's woes because there are no conservatives with any power, apart from One Nation, and that has very little influence through sheer lack of numbers. We are lousy with the Left, so to speak, so you have lost your whipping boys. Where to now, Paul?

ttbn, what makes you think One Nation is conservative? I find them radical, if they were to assume power, I would expect many radical changes would follow. Your hero Corny Banana tried to launch a conservative political party in Australia, but it just wouldn't fly. Some of the true believers, like yourself, got burnt fingers. I hope you donated the full $10,000 to help out.

Paul,

You still haven't said who you are going to blame now that we are all socialists.

ttbn, the Liberal party, like Labor is a social democratic party. The difference between the two is more a matter of emphasis than political direction. Sure there are/were a few ratbags in the Liberal party, and still are, Abbott and Dutton to name but two, even those guys are not out and out conservatives.

One of the reasons for the failure of The Australian Conservative party was the simple fact there were just not enough conservatives around to support it, there was no mass exodus from the traditional right running to join with those few corn balls.

You can see from this covid crises how easy it is for the leadership, state and federal, of both parties to come together for the perceived common good. If politically they were diametrically opposed that just couldn't happen. That is the reason we have political stability in Australia, elections change very little.

Anyway, when ScumO' stuffs up, we'll blame Scumo'.

I don't agree with your definition of 'conservative' or who is conservative and who is not; but one thing seems to be occurring - a gradual move towards a one party system. National cabinets that are not constitutional is a start. A LNP initiative that Labor supports and wants to retain as part of the "new normal". The bastards we have put into parliament will still all be there, arses up, snouts in the trough. If it does happen, it will be our own fault.

There us no such thing as a nice politician, but I have never disliked or distrusted any of them, irrespective of party or policies, as much as I dislike and distrust Scott Morrison.

ttbn, you had a shot at me, re spelling and grammar a couple of weeks ago. BTW mine is as good as most, you included.

"There us no such thing as a nice politician"

As you said, don't you read what you post? What goes around, comes around.

"us for is" is a typo, Paul - nothing to do with grammar or spelling.

ttbn: At least a couple of times now you have said that the National Cabinet that has been formed in response to the corona-virus pandemic is not constitutional.

When saying this do you mean that it contravenes the constitution or just that it is not mentioned in the constitution.

If you believe that it contravenes constitution I'm curious to know why you think this. Perhaps you could detail which particular section(s) you claim it violates.

thinkabit, don't you know, ttbn is a constitutional lawyer. Here he is in action, on what you are asking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJuXIq7OazQ

ttbn, you told me you re-read everything before posting, so I take it you can't spell the word "IS"!

Paul1405: That movie clip is hilarious. It's from "The Castle" isn't it? I've never seen the movie but I really should make an effort to watch it.

Yes, worth a watch thinkabit, very funny with quite a few laughs.

Here's another clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dik_wnOE4dk