I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with him, but Augusto Zimmermann believes we have virtually become a police state. Zimmermann is not a weirdo or a nutter; he is a PhD, lawyer and academic at several WA tertiary institutions. He thinks that the Chinese virus has brought about this 'police state' without "much complaint or dissatisfaction" from the population; possibly because of "our … ignorance of our own legal traditions …. ".

Zimmermann believes that the erosion of fundamental rights is "both deep and widespread in this country". We are being patronised and spoken down to, so that citizens now have a distorted view of what the government can do for them. They have acquired an unshakable faith in their political class as that class, led by Scott Morrison and state premiers have developed a taste for the arbitrary exercise of power, which Zimmermann expects them to continue with after the China virus crisis is over.

While the PM tells us that he is just doing what medical advisors advise, it is a poor leader who hides behind "experts" whose only expertise is medical; and the current crisis is not just medical. The experts have no knowledge of the "holistic" situation: sociology, economics and constitutional law are all relevant if we don't want to end up broke and downtrodden; all for a projected mortality rate of 0.9%.

(Source: 'In the State You Will Trust', Augusto Zimmermann PhD, LLM, LLB, DipEd, Quadrant Online 15/4/20)

Once the appeasement money runs out I think more and more people will start to agree with Zimmerman. To many freedoms have been given up with no rational basis. Everyone agrees something had to be done but putting so much power in the hands of so few will result in many freedoms not being returned and compulsory vaccination/monitoring for the average person. I suspect this is a trial run and the 'elite' are loving it. Denying people saying goodbye to loved ones is barbaric no matter how much it is promoted as 'compassionate' and for 'good cause'.

It's no more a China Virus than it is a US Funded Virus.

http://vermontbiz.com/news/2020/february/13/leahy-coronavirus-and-trumps-budget

"Pandemic response is critical, but often by then it is too late. We can and must do more to proactively reduce pandemic risk. One approach I have urged is for a global viral discovery effort. Such a concept was proven successful through USAID’s PREDICT program, which used the collection and analysis of wildlife samples in areas of the world most at risk for zoonotic disease to identify new emerging viruses with pandemic potential. PREDICT was able to discover hundreds of disease pathogens at their source, rather than waiting for human infection.

In China, the PREDICT program sampled more than 10,000 bats and identified more than 500 new coronaviruses, including a strain that is a 96 percent match to the 2019 novel coronavirus strain. The known existence of, and readily available data on, such a close relative is one reason China was able to quickly sequence the novel strain and identify the animal source of the outbreak."

Now read this one:

Discovery of a rich gene pool of bat SARS-related coronaviruses provides new insights into the origin of SARS coronavirus

http://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1006698

"In the current study, we successfully cultured an additional novel SARSr-CoV Rs4874 from a single fecal sample using an optimized protocol and Vero E6 cells [17]. Its S protein shared 99.9% aa sequence identity with that of previously isolated WIV16 and it was identical to WIV16 in RBD. Using the reverse genetics technique we previously developed for WIV1 [23], we constructed a group of infectious bacterial artificial chromosome (BAC) clones with the backbone of WIV1 and variants of S genes from 8 different bat SARSr-CoVs. Only the infectious clones for Rs4231 and Rs7327 led to cytopathic effects in Vero E6 cells after transfection (S7 Fig). The other six strains with deletions in the RBD region, Rf4075, Rs4081, Rs4085, Rs4235, As6526 and Rp3 (S1 Fig) failed to be rescued, as no cytopathic effects was observed and viral replication cannot be detected by immunofluorescence assay in Vero E6 cells (S7 Fig). In contrast, when Vero E6 cells were respectively infected with the two successfully rescued chimeric SARSr-CoVs, WIV1-Rs4231S and WIV1-Rs7327S, and the newly isolated Rs4874, efficient virus replication was detected in all infections (Fig 7). To assess whether the three novel SARSr-CoVs can use human ACE2 as a cellular entry receptor, we conducted virus infectivity studies using HeLa cells with or without the expression of human ACE2. All viruses replicated efficiently in the human ACE2-expressing cells. The results were further confirmed by quantification of viral RNA using real-time RT-PCR (Fig 8)."

Which part don't you understand?
The US funded a study that paid the Chinese to go out and collect bat samples, which has over 96% match to the current virus, and part of that study was to transfect to intermediates and see if it would also transmit to humans.

Which part of that don't you get?

Blaming the wet markets is total utter BS.

runner,

I think that you are probably right. All our so-called elites are going to come out of this looking pretty shabby.

What I don't understand, AC, is your ongoing defence of China, the biggest threat to Australia and the world. The virus is definitely the Chinese virus. Do you have Chinese connections? Are you Chinese yourself? But that's not the point. Do you agree with Zimmermann's claim of do you not? Are we in danger of becoming a police state?

It would be interesting to know the the reactions to the police state idea of respondents to a survey, the results of which were released today.

70%-80% of respondents were not concerned with the China virus, but with the heavy handedness that is causing them anxiety and depression from isolation, loss of jobs and businesses or the prospective loss of jobs or businesses. Use of alcohol exceeded normal use in 70% of respondents.

Psychological problems are not big with once-were-doctors public servants advising the government. They still have their big-buck jobs.

"What I don't understand, AC, is your ongoing defense of China, the biggest threat to Australia and the world."

I'm not defending China any more than standing up for what (I believe) is right.
I'm not convinced China is responsible for the virus first observed in Wuhan, though I don't doubt they played it down and tried to cover it up.

Until more facts come to light I don't want to attribute blame to China any more than the US who funded these bat virus studies.

I think it's more likely it came from a lab rather than from nature, to that end I'm not sure which party it was, or whether accidental or on purpose.

I try to stick up for what is right and I'll give you an example:
Yesterday Frydenberg came out and went nuts about WHO not shutting down Chinese wet markets.

I don't particularly approve of wet markets, I think they should be more sanitary and I'm glad we have health standards and regulations here in Australia.

That doesn't mean I agree with Frydenberg though.
I don't agree with foreign countries or global governance organisations dictating how individual nations should operate.
If you believe in democracy it's up the the Chinese to decide for themselves if they want wet markets and its not for anyone else to dictate how they should live.
We can encourage them to lift health standards and choose not to buy their goods, but we don't tell them how to live or restrict them from selling their goods.

I don't support Koreans eating dogs, but I'm don't think I have the right to impose what I believe upon them.

"Do you agree with Zimmermann's claim or do you not? Are we in danger of becoming a police state?"

Damn right we are, and that was before the Coronavirus.
Global pandemic is like Christmas to the globalists.
This gives them an easy path to forward all the agendas they struggled to push forward previously.
The march to global totalitarianism is a slow process.
This helps them move their agendas forward much faster.

'"Do you agree with Zimmermann's claim or do you not? Are we in danger of becoming a police state?"

Damn right we are, and that was before the Coronavirus.
Global pandemic is like Christmas to the globalists.
This gives them an easy path to forward all the agendas they struggled to push forward previously.
The march to global totalitarianism is a slow process.
This helps them move their agendas forward much faster.'

certainly agree with you on this Armchair. The magic 'vaccine' is likely to be the control point. NO doubt you think this global elite is largely made up of Jews? That is where we will probably disagree.

The Clintons, Soros (who is Jewish), Gates are all who you could not trust in any shape or form. The overpopulation dogma they have been pushing for decades is completely flawed. You could not also trust anyone or organisation that claims to value human life but allows the unborn babies to be slaughtered. It is pure evil.

This helps them move their agendas forward much faster.
Armchair Critic,
How do you conquer a Nation in this Century ? You send your young people there to study & learn all about the mentality of the average citizen by flashing Dollars in front of them & presto, you're in !

gamingzip

thanks for adding to the dumbing down of our generation. Congratulations.

David Flint agrees, describing Australia now as a "grossly indebted, authoritarian and misgoverned polity". Authoritarianism is everywhere; it's as if some dictator, Mussolini, Mao or Xi Jinping is Government House, he writes.

AC,

You do agree with Zimmermann's position, then. I think I do too. The source of the virus, the blame, has been dealt with, and there's nothing we can do about it. Our own government needs to be scrutinised and held to account now. They are the only ones who can fix the problem - or not.

They are the only ones who can fix the problem - or not.
ttbn,
Only with a cooperative society though !

individual,

Most people appear to have cooperated and done the right thing, but it's all wearing a bit thin.

I got a laugh from the news tonight: apparently the flow of illegal drugs into the country has slowed or stopped, so the bored in isolation are hitting the grog more than ever. 'I can't stop drinking', said one interviewee. I wonder if these people ever stop to wonder how people who don't drink or drug deal with stress and disappointment in their lives.

people who don't drink or drug deal with stress and disappointment
ttbn,
Well, I'd imagine they're of the mentality that sees care & responsibility as beneficial instead of a flaw !
They'd probably be supportive of my call for a national Service.

Many complacent people, like Australians, who have had everything nice and easy, don't believe that their politicians could ever ever emerge as dictators. Dictators are foreign. They don't speak English. They look different. But these foreign dictators, who don't speak our language, who don't look like us - e.g Xi Jinping - do speak the same language as their victims; they look like their victims.

There is nothing special or different about Australians. We don't care about politics. Does anyone really think that we are any different from the Chinese who live in the worst dictatorship, in which 1.3 billion politically-disinterested people are subjugated by a mere 6.5% of the population?

Forget about the rule of law stuff; the oldest continuous democracy stuff; the Constitution can't be changed without our permission stuff; it simply couldn't happen here stuff - that's all theory. Irrespective of the 'emergency' and the rights or wrongs of the current lockdowns and loss of freedoms, we have now seen how easy it is for politicians to manipulate the law and change our lives. Most Australians have just accepted what 'experts' have said, and accepted restrictions we would never have dreamed of accepting a mere couple of months ago if we had been told such things would happen. Now, there are sane, rational people saying that we cannot trust our seemingly benign politicians to not become addicted to the powers that they have given themselves. Think about it.

Trying to make Scott Morrison seem better than he really is, Liberal Party urger, Michael Kroger, has opined that the PM has done brilliantly handling the economic and health crises (there was not an economic crisis until the PM kicked one off) and, if he gets the economic recovery right, Scott Morrison will “go down as another Howard or another Menzies.

That’s the sort of muck the overlords use to lull us into a false sense of security.

And, the bloke who caused the economic crisis is going to fix it? Yeah! The only way for the economy to recover from the PM’s hideous bout of socialism is for politicians to get out of the way.

As a minor aside that shows how even the lowest of our supposed-to-be-representatives are arrogant and above normal behaviour, a Burnside councillor (Adelaide’s leafy suburbs) has been seen drinking wine and cider during an online council meeting. Much huffing and puffing/we’ll ban alcohol (after the incident was publicised, not before it was allowed to occur). But the bloke is obviously a drunk - can’t even leave it alone during a meeting - and would have been tanked up anyway. No this is not a “minor aside”. It should give us pause to think about the possible effects that the drinking and drugging habits of elected politicians might be having on their decisions.

The protections of the constitution go down the toilet the second there's a legitimate reason for people to give their consent.

Viral agents are now legitimate reason to:
Stop the movement of people
- inc. lockdown in your home, region or state under penalty of law
Track your movement of people and their contact with others
Check points - ask you where you're going and what you're doing and force you to take medical tests or vaccinations.
Remove you from where you live and prevent you from seeing loved ones.
End cash transactions, destroy the economy and force hasher economic measures in place.
Create a need for a Universal Basic Income, and forward all other Socialist / Marxist / Totalitarian agendas.

- And there's not a damn thing we can do about it.
You see people happy to dob in their own neighbours and have them arrested now, simply for leaving their homes whilst under curfew.

Look at the cornet government and businesses are now backed into:

Hypothetically, I might have coronavirus, but not be showing any symptoms.
I could inadvertantly cause the death of another person.
If businesses don't now recognise this risk and act accordingly they could be sued for negligence.
If governments don't now recognise this risk and act accordingly they could be seen to be incompetent and out of touch.
There's a new normal now.

This means that governments obligation to act and protect people and society against this new enemy they have to consider a whole different range of measures, and half the country will now support sending the other half to gulags if they don't comply.

Seems like a great time for the 'V for Vendetta' speech:
http://youtu.be/dKnjxT5HRJQ

[Cont.]
You all realise that with the US ending funding for the WHO, then this makes Bill Gates the largest funder of the WHO.
This means the owner of Microsoft, a private individual who supports global depopulation is now in control of global heath.

Bill Gates's Depopulation Initiative
http://youtu.be/Gc16H3uHKOA

If you can't see conflicts of interest here then you're as dumb as a box of rocks.
If you really want to see what he's up to best place to start would be his foundation website as well as people and companies he's associating with and the list of mergers and acquisitions by both Microsoft and the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation, and any company or intellectual property under that umbrella.

On the 'lets get mad at China' front:
Who do we blame for this mess?

Is it China's fault for being China, or is it our fault for our unions jacking up wages, government for signing free trade agreements, universities promoting international education, business owners fault for selling out in an uncompetitive market where foreigners have an advantage and exporting all our manufacturing to China, or consumers for wanting cheap goods?
Regards the virus: If China (or any nation) is shown to have conclusively had a hand in this mess (either accidental or on-purpose) I most certainly will point the finger, I'm just not there yet.

I don't like jumping to conclusions because so often these days is just a narrative, designed to manipulate your opinion.

or is it our fault for our unions jacking up wages, government for signing free trade agreements, universities promoting international education, business owners fault for selling out in an uncompetitive market where foreigners have an advantage and exporting all our manufacturing to China, or consumers for wanting cheap goods?
Armchair Critic,
So true ! Only a few days ago I heard some mutt on the ABC saying that it's time to bring the minimum up. I simply cannot fathom this mentality but at the risk of Paul1405 accusing me to want to give more money to the wealthy & less to the lower paid, wouldn't it be economically more beneficial to bring down the highest/very high salaries ?

'Viral agents are now legitimate reason to:
Stop the movement of people
- inc. lockdown in your home, region or state under penalty of law
Track your movement of people and their contact with others
Check points - ask you where you're going and what you're doing and force you to take medical tests or vaccinations.
Remove you from where you live and prevent you from seeing loved ones.
End cash transactions, destroy the economy and force hasher economic measures in place.
Create a need for a Universal Basic Income, and forward all other Socialist / Marxist / Totalitarian agendas.

- And there's not a damn thing we can do about it.
You see people happy to dob in their own neighbours and have them arrested now, simply for leaving their homes whilst under curfew.'

well written and so true Armchair. Thankfully some are starting to revolt in the US. Here it won't happen until appeasement money runs out. At least that's the way I see it. Meanwhile some overpaid public servant and the abc are pushing for more money. Funny how Bill Gates could not stop windows from many virus's and yet people are looking to him for a vaccine. I am told he has trialled many vaccines in Africa which he would not use on his own kids. I have not confirmed that but as a globalist he is likely to lack character if anything like Soros, the UN etc. Funny how this mob all pushed the gw conspiracy.

" … there has been so little scrutiny from the public or the press of the decisions made by the government and by the health authorities" (John Roskam, IPA)

Much of the Australian media has failed to fulfil some of their most basic responsibilities in a free society, namely to question the government and hold it to account.

As we move away from a liberal democracy towards a one party totalitarian state, its comforting to know this is all being done with the full blessing and support of the people. Like somewhere else in 1933, temporary emergency measures must always be enacted for the good of the majority. WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER! So malcontents who are subverting what is for the common good of the people, they must be delt with accordingly, we cannot afford dissent at this most critical time, that which is for the good of the common people! So get used to it! Have you got your app? If not, WHY NOT! Under the new law and order regime, not having your app is a crime, not taking your mobile phone with you wherever you go is a crime. If your phone is turned off, that to is also a crime. If you give your phone to another person that is defiantly a crime. If your app is turned off that to is a crime. If you do not produce you mobile phone when ordered to do so that is a serious crime. These most necessary emergency measures will be in place for 5 years, from where they shall be revived with the prospect of an indefinite extension. To disagree with this edict is also a crime.

I dont know why ttbn starts threads. He already knows all of the answers to the question he asks, and will merely lampoon anyone who disagrees with him.

He is indeed the right wing bully boy of OLO.

Go ttbn.

And, no, Australia's response to the very serious coronavirus is hardly a danger to our liberties if it is intended to control the virus as quick as possible and save lives.

public response is mixed about whether the strategy is over the top.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/mar/24/guardian-essential-poll-one-third-say-there-has-been-an-overreaction-to-coronavirus

What a childish little oik Chris Lewis is when his tender surface is scratched.

Consider the scene in Australia. There are 25.5 million people here, but thus far we have had 61 people die from the Chinese virus. You can work out the percentages. Yet the entire nation is in lockdown with countless people unemployed and businesses destroyed, and draconian policing infringing on basic liberties. How very easy it is for the state to completely shut down an entire nation.

really, you accused the first post that brought up some material as being a Chinese sympathizer.

your the child.

I have been called all sorts of things during my almost eight decades of life, but never a bully. Anybody who knows me would die laughing if they heard such an accusation levelled at me.

However, if you, Chris Lewis, think that I am bullying you, you should contact Graham Young, who will deal with your complaint against me in the appropriate way. If your are not prepared to do that, I think that you should just shut up and and avoid my posts altogether.

If you had any awareness at all, you would know that, 99% of the time, I don’t address myself to people who don’t agree with me - unless they attack me personally. They can say what they want about my views, but I occasionally take umbrage at personal abuse. So, I don’t put up threads just to “lampoon” anyone. People can read them, or not; comment on them, or not - it’s up to them. You might not have noticed, but Blind Freddy knows that there is no point in arguing the toss with someone who disagrees with you. Nobody changes his/her mind, once it is made up.

In deference to you tender pysche, I will put you on my ‘never read/never comment’ list. Enjoy life in your bubble.

ttbn.

I am not bothered by your comments, so why would I complain. What is allowed on this site is not my business.

But, since you love lampooning and ridiculing other opinions, just about anything that disagrees with you, I have a right to respond.

I would like to think OLO is not Quadrant online which is dedicated to a certain view of the world. We should actually take heed of all opinions on this forum as most of us have something to say.

It is so tiresome to hear your comments about the ABC, police, Morrison govt, left wingers, global warming, greenies, and so on.

I mean let's see your manifesto about Australia should have responded to the coronavirus. Suggesting Australia's response to be some sort of anti-liberal democratic move is ridiculous given the seriousness of the situation.

By all means, let's hear your ideas about which activities are not a threat

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive”. (C.S. Lewis - the writer, not you-know-who).

King Scott has now said that restrictions would not be lifted until at least 40% of his subjects had the tracking app. Just as well it's not every subject, many of whom still don't own a mobile phone at all, let alone a smart phone needed to install the app. I've had one for less than 12 months, but its just a basic phone for a safeguard in my advanced years. What else could the app be used for post-virus? That's the trouble with technology. Unless you are techno-freak, you don't know what the bastards have on you. Our king didn't say how people without the app would fare; he is only interested in the arbitrary figure of 40% having it.

It remains to be seen how quick we get back to normal.

I would agree that some of social distancing is perhaps over the top, but I generally support the govt's strategy to be cautious for another month or so.

I am sure that all of the liberal democracies have faults with their responses.

Sweden remained open for business, with a much higher rate of death.

I would doubt that Australians would have supported such a strategy.

It remains to be seen how quick we get back to normal.
Chris Lewis,
what do you mean by getting back to normal ? Have we ever been there ? :-)

well, to how it was prior to the coronavirus. is that clearer?

We're not going back to normal.

Meet The Companies Poised To Build The Kushner-Backed “Coronavirus Surveillance System”
http://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/top-news/meet-companies-poised-build-kushner-backed-coronavirus-surveillance-system/

How Apple and Google Are Enabling Covid-19 Contact-Tracing
http://www.wired.com/story/apple-google-bluetooth-contact-tracing-covid-19/

interesting, but won't tracking systems help get economy going again? or should we wait to there are no cases?

Chris, the Thought Nazi App, it secretly installed itself on your mobile phone, has detected diabolical thinking on your part towards Supreme Leader. Members of the Re-Education Secretariat will be paying you a visit to explain the errors of your ways. It would be in your favour to admit your failings, and you would do well to name those of your co-conspirators who you are in league with in undermining the authority of Supreme Leader.

Please do not be overly concerned, as Supreme Leader intends to review these regulations sometime in the future, but remember; FOR NOW, WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER! Unlesss of course you are a Labor Senator with an Airbnb to let, then the rules don't apply.

But with the app, wont you be able to get rid of it once virus is gone.

i think most Aust's will support its use, although I may be wrong.

Chris, Supreme Leader speaks for us all, and he is in favour of the APP! Unfortunately due to a virus within the APP, the APP cannot be erased. FOR NOW, WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. Unless of course you are a State Minister and want to get away for the weekend, up at you holiday chalet, after a stressful week looking at arty-farty stuff! .

Under the heading “The Tryranny of medical experts”, IPA writer, and commentator, Carlos Abrera, reminds us that the PM continues to OUTSOURCE key decisions about how to address the Chinese virus to “his trusted inner sanctum of medical experts”.

To defy the Chief Medical Officer would be “both a career and electoral suicide”. Too bad about the economy and the people; Scott’s career and reelection are what it’s about. And, also off the experts’ and the PM’s agenda, is the fact that that the modelling behind the advice grossly overestimated the effect of the Chinese virus on the health system because it was based on on a WORST-CASE scenario from Whuhan: 89% of the population would be infected!

“For how long does the PM imprison the entire country”?, D’Abrera asks. The PM and too many other people are “blind to the inevitable economic catastrophe that awaits us”. The manifest lack of proportionality reflects the worst “authoritarian excesses and collective neuroticism of influential health authorities.

The inflexible structures and practices now being imposed on the whole country “WILL BE DIFFICULT TO DISMANTLE”.

“Quarantine is when you restrict movement of sick people. Tyranny is when you restrict the movement of healthy people.” (Thomas Jefferson)

Tyranny is when you restrict the movement of healthy people.” (Thomas Jefferson)
ttbn,
You could save us all a lot of trouble by not withholding the names of the healthy ones. As soon as you do tell us we can keep them separate & let them go about their daily life !
All the COVID-19 carriers can just stay home.
Don't delay to provide the list !

meanwhile the bulging federal and state public servants all still get paid, many of them go to work, buy their coffee so what's the problem folk? Whether your the diversity officer in HR, in Foreign affairs (well I suppose their junkets are restricted), part of the victimised females on 30000 a year with the abc, on the council ensuring nothing is approved due to the gw myth just be assured your job is safe.

That's right,runner. We don't see people who lost their jobs grinning on TV and saying we'll get through this "together". Morrison says public servants are as import as ICU doctors and nurses. Says nothing about his enemies in the ABC because he's s..t frightened of them. That dreadful creature in NZ and her cronies have taken a cut. They can afford it, but so could Morrison, but he won't.

but so could Morrison, but he won't.
ttbn,
That's my only gripes with him thus far !

pray for this one https://togelapak.com/

50 headlines welcoming us to the "new normal"
http://www.sott.net/article/432751-50-headlines-welcoming-us-to-the-new-normal

Ethnic-Specific Weapons: Leaked Documents Reveal US Diplomats in Georgia Trafficking Human Blood And Pathogens For Pentagon Biowarfare Laboratory
http://www.sott.net/article/396191-Ethnic-Specific-Weapons-Leaked-Documents-Reveal-US-Diplomats-in-Georgia-Trafficking-Human-Blood-And-Pathogens-For-Pentagon-Biowarfare-Laboratory

The Truth Perspective: Interview with Dilyana Gaytandzhieva: Pentagon Biological Warfare And Arms Trafficking to Terrorists
http://www.sott.net/article/376355-The-Truth-Perspective-Interview-with-Dilyana-Gaytandzhieva-Pentagon-Biological-Warfare-And-Arms-Trafficking-to-Terrorists

ttbn and Indy, and the rest of the Forum Old Farts, you seem rather peeved, with our newest and dearest of new chums Scotty, you mob can call him Mr Morrison. Yes Comrade Scotty is doing a fantastic job for use of the Socialist left. I did hear that Comrade Scotty is considering as the next step in our "great leap forward" to the collectivising of all means of production. Now that will put your mob into raptures no doubt.

Not sure of this, but rumour has it that Comrade Scotty has just hung a picture of Uncle Joe up in his living room. Fantastic if true!

ttbn

the irony is that Morrison is probably more than earning his salary. There are a huge number of public servants who get paid much more than him. We have the useless discrimination mob who went after students wanting to use computers at a uni, many high paid in csiro paid to fiddle with temperatures to fit lying narratives, totally overpaid uni staff, no doubt multitudes of public servants on stress leave because they have nothing to do.

He's not just any old comrade Paul, he's our beloved Commissar.

No honestly his profile has raised in my view during this crisis.
I think he showed qualities of leadership I did not think he had.
- Good for him, and good for us -

But now he's got to start getting things back to normal, as much as is reasonably possible.
The longer it takes the worse it will end up being.

(Though NSW should keep its borders closed and stay in lockdown for another few weeks)

We made things a lot safer for those at risk and our health system should handle any additional cases, which are guaranteed without herd immunity.

I think we've done about as good as we could, but we shouldn't go back to being complacent just yet.
We don't know the long term effects of this virus, because we don't know whether it came from nature, or from a lab as a biological weapon.

While I'm at it, many thanks to all the health staff who've worked tirelessly at the frontline of COVID-19.
We couldn't have done it without you.

AC,

Ah yes: the "new normal". The media noisemakers are banging that drum for all they are worth, as if a passing virus - and it will pass - is going to change our lives forever. Most of the idiots are under 40, have never read a book or studied history, and are completely ignorant of past hiccups in society that have been overcome.

These morons are using the opportunity to scare themselves (some people get off on scaring themselves and others) by 'predicting' such things as 'the end of cash', permanent restrictions on overseas travel, online shopping only - you name it, nothing will be the same again!

The best, and only antidote to this nonsense is to stop trawling Google for it. Stop watching what started out to be an informative "extra news" program on Channel 7, but which, having run out of useful information, has turned into a scare-mongering event, with interviews with wild-eyed lunatics, nobody has heard of, spewing ridiculous fantasies about things they cannot possibly predict.

Tell them, "Shove it up your arse", and look forward to getting back to enjoying the way things used to be a few months before panicking politicians lost the plot.

runner,

Not sure about that. Scott Morrison was paid $549,250 pa as of July 2019. That's only about $20k less than the US president. Morrison gets $15k more than the German chancellor, and $150k more than the UK prime minister. All for 25 million people. US 325 million people; Germany, 83 million; UK, 67 million.

I think that we pay him - and most other people in Australia - too much. And that's where much of our economic problem lies.

How much does Alan Joyce get paid for an airline that's barely even flying?
I think the PM's worth half a million in wages, 10k per week.
- But he better do a good job, not half-arse it -

How much do others think the job of PM's worth?

'I think that we pay him - and most other people in Australia - too much. And that's where much of our economic problem lies.'

no doubt ttbn that wages in many cases are far to high especially in the public sector where it is almost impossible to get sacked even if totally incompetent.

i think half a million is reasonable, but I don't think their retirement salary should be tax free.

he would clear around $300,000 after tax and medicare levy

imo, all people should pay income tax in accordance to the tax scale of the day.

Hey runner,
"no doubt ttbn that wages in many cases are far to high especially in the public sector where it is almost impossible to get sacked even if totally incompetent."

For many their entire job is an all-day-long coffee break, with a little work thrown in to give the impression of work during their all-day-long coffee breaks.

AC,

Last I heard, Joyce was not taking any salary for the duration. I don't know if that's still true. If it is, how annoying it is that an irritating little homosexual would do the right thing:).

runner,

I think that we have to differentiate between public servants, who usually have qualifications, and politicians who do not, and don't need them. Any idiot who works for a union or a politician and does enough brown nosing can get put up for election, and people vote for somebody they didn't know existed prior to the election. These and idiots get a say in which people are employed as public servants.

Top public servants are paid too much. Vice Chancellor Spence gets $1.5 million, for example, but they can be sacked, and a couple have recently been jailed for their conduct.

Politicians, on the other hand, can only be voted out, but most hang on well before their use-by date, unless they are independents. Sacking a government only slightly reduces their big bucks in opposition.

Overall, I think that politicians are bigger parasites and bludgers than good public servants are. And there are some good public servants; I can't say the same for politicians.

Paul1405,
You pester others to no end to answer queries you put to them but what about you ?
I'm still waiting for you to tell us what you think of my proposal to reduce extra high Public Service Bureaucrat Salaries ?

(Though NSW should keep its borders closed and stay in lockdown for another few weeks)
Armchair Critic,
A 5 metre high fence around Sydney & Melbourne would be an excellent project for a National Service to kick off !

As far as I'm concerned I don't think any Public Servant should be on higher salary than the PM. As simple as That !
That includes Judges,, Lawyers, ABC & SBS, & any Project manager & consultant whose salary is paid from the Public Purse !

Indy, your vindictive approach to public servants salaries could have unintended consequences, EXAMPLE;

A PS Dept head on a taxable income of $400k p.a, presently pays $153k in income tax, giving a nett income of $247k p.a. Should that same PS take a forced 25% pay reduction to $300k taxable income, apply your 15% flat tax equalling $45k, his nett income would rise to $255k. Thus the despised ones nett income would go up by $8,000 p.a.

Now, how about answering one of my questions, like the reduction in minimum wages with your 15% flat income tax, would the aged welfare benefit you receive also be cut by a mandatory 15%, seems only fair?

I KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE ANYTHING THAT WOULD EFFECT YOUR PRESENTLY, MOST GENEROUS GOVERNMENT LARGESSE, BUT YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Paul1405,
You're right when you say presently & that's the crux of the problem ! The present system is flawed that's why I advocate "CHANGE" !
You constantly dissect my proposals with the present system as your argument. How many times do I need to tell you that it is the present system we need to get away from to make the situation better & more equal !
Also, when you pay 15% for argument's sake then in that 15% should be your Pension, Dental & other Medical as well as Ambulance. A PS Dept head should not be on $400,000 in the first place ! Bring him back to no more than $300,000 ! How can you justify 400 Grand for doing what ? Old age pensioners have earned their pension, I'm not so sure about those who always avoided work.

would the aged welfare benefit you receive also be cut by a mandatory 15%, seems only fair?
Paul1405,
Your Tory attitude towards Old Age pensioners flies in the face of your supposed Socialist leanings !
What about the Welfare component in your Superannuation ?
I maintain that Superannuation should be a voluntary contribution & the Old Age pension should be returned to what it was, a compulsory contribution throughout a wage earner's life.
We do not have wages that allow putting "something away" for later years. People need a safety net & Govt should provide that in return for not providing a level playing field & fixed goal posts !

Indy,

I always favoured a retirement scheme which tied compulsory superannuation and aged pension welfare together. A non means tested pension ('Pensoncare') component payable at the age of 65 based on years of residency in Australia as a citizen or permanent resident from the age of 20. In other words a full pension would be paid to those holding 45 units (65-20=45), a part pension to those holding less units, (migrants). If you migrate or die before the age of 65 you receive a cash payout based on years of residency less years to retirement. Based on a compulsory 7.5% contribution rate, a full pension payment to all of $300 week would not be unreasonable. Taking a holiday/working o/s does not affect the pension, providing in total time spent out of the country does not exceed 2 years

To give you an example of a payment to someone who dies or leaves the country permanently. Based on a figure of 15 times annual pension (average life expectancy of 80 years) say $15,000 x 15 = $225,000 A migrant arrived at age 30 died at age 60 and spent 8 years back in the old country. That person would hold 60-30-5-8 units = 17, their payout would be 17/45 times $225,000 = $85,000. A similar lump sum payout arrangement for those who die or migrate between the ages of 65 and 80 would apply. A full pensioner who dies at age 70 his estate would be entitled to a cash payout (80-70)/15 x $225,000 = $150,000.

A compulsory superannuation account of another 7.5% of earnings (in place of the present 9.5% compulsory contributions) would operate side by side with the compulsory 'Pensioncare' scheme. Similar to what operates now, but publicly owned and operated, and invested in nation building projects, call it 'Supacare'. Supa would be invested in public projects, with interest paid at the 10 year bond rate, with operating charges covered by the government. People could also invest privately in supa as they do now. The safety net is the pension, the bonus is the supa scheme.

Indy, the other point, I would always allow a tax free threshold of some kind, at the moment it is $18,200, no taxes or charges on that money ever. A modest amount of earnings above retirement age should always be allowed as it is now. On the full pension, both the poorest paid, and highest paid, receive the same pension, regardless of how much they have contributed, but the higher paid should receive more through superannuation. Do you agree?

Paul1405,
At first glance it sounds ok but let me digest your figures before I come back. We need to get away from bracketing because that's where in my opinion all the discrepancies creep in.
I think we need to get a system akin to a Flat tax Dollar for Dollar, no $37,000 - $ 50,000 etc.
Earn a Dollar, pay 15 or whatever Percent Tax !
Services such as Doctor visits, Dental, Ambulance & Old Age pension must be paid for in every Dollar of Tax. After all, this wouldn't be the only Tax , there's Tax in everything we buy & use.
One thing is certain, the very high salaries of bureaucracy in the Public Service need to become a thing of the past ! They make the whole Nation uncompetitive !

Indy, the only problem with a flat tax on income, is it has to be massively high to raise the required revenue to pay for all the largesse people expect from government. In noway would 15% flat income tax cut it, it would have to be much higher, probably more like 30% plus, if government is going to meet the expectations of the citizens. There in lies the rub, such a high tax, massively disadvantages the low paid, whilst giving a huge financial boost to high income earners. That's why we have a tax free threshold, and sliding scales, to cushion the tax burden on low income earners.

As for your previous claimed 7.5% contribution towards an aged pension entitlement, whether or not you made such a contribution at some time in the dim distant past through an income tax levy is immaterial, the fact is, if that money was there, its not there now. Based on that, like it or not, your payment from a pension fund today would be a big fat zero. Why I believe there never has been any such fund, is because aged pensions have always been means tested, granted, quite liberally, and have never been universal. Although, I recall there was a short lived attempt to pay a universal pension at age 70 by the Whitlam government. But when 'Pig Iron' Bob Menzies claimed the pension at 70, there was a general hue and cry, and the scheme was shut down.

Paul1405,
You're the only person I know who doesn't know about the 7.5% pension contribution in income tax. You say 15 % is insufficient ? Well, put it up to 18 or 20 %. People must accept that if they expect services then they must contribute !
A pension is affordable & it must be the same for all, no higher pension for bigger earners, full stop !
The one thing Govt must do is not constantly move the goal posts !
It's not that Govt only has the pension fund to pay out, it has a multitude of other taxes that fill the coffers. Pensions will be spent anyway so it's not dead money at all. The main thing is, we have fewer welfare problems & improved local economy !