Armchair Critic,

It is easy to see that you like Shadow Minister etc do not know anything about the Arts things like history, sociology, anthropology, archaeology, philosophy, etc.

Lydian coins were not stamped because they were part of a system of photo-capitalism. Admittedly they could be used in early commerce but their true importance was in propaganda, letting the people know who was their king or ruler. It was more about politics than about economics.

Actually, I just realised where you and Shadow Minister have gone astray in your thinking. I think you are confusing the term 'capitalism' with 'commerce'.

Are you an engineer too or some other vocationally trained type?

"Capitalism as I think most people would agree is a relatively modern concept, which first took roots in northwestern Europe in the wake of the Peace of Westphalia and is primarily coincident with the breakdown of the feudal system and the introduction of the Industrial Revolution."

"Lydian coins were not stamped because they were part of a system of photo-capitalism."

So they weren't, but they were.
You really don't know whether you're Arthur or Martha...
- Think before you type

"I think you are confusing the term 'capitalism' with 'commerce'."
- Please explain.

Armchair Critic,

I think we're talking on different levels. You don't know the things I know about and conversely I don't know the things you know about.

As such I don't think we can discuss matters that require an acceptable knowledge of the Arts things like history, anthropology, sociology, archaeology, philosophy, etc.

I am still curious as to your background. Obviously it's not in Arts things like history, anthropology, sociology, archaeology, philosophy, etc. I'm guessing you're an engineer like Shadow Minister.

AC,

O course, there has been trade between groups and individuals for many thousands of years, ever since the initiation of agriculture and the exchange of farming products for wild meat (bush-meat) and other items that neighbouring hunter-gatherer groups would have collected - as they still do around the world.

I'm not suggesting that all trade is, by definition, capitalism - as Marx wrote in detail, IF someone holds back the proceeds of a trade exchange, and instead of consuming them, plows them back into more sellable or tradeable products, and so on: in other words, if money, M, becomes capital, C, to be used to make a profit on a trade exchange, and which (at least a proportion of it) is plowed back in turn with another round of purchase of goods specifically to sell: M - C - M - C, and so on.

This has been going on for many thousands of years, not necessarily with coinage as the medium of exchange but cowrie shells, necklaces, lumps of obsidian, precious stones, even cattle and women.

Certainly, some enterprising Timores or Macassan seafaring traders may have been trading with Aboriginal people here, trading artifacts for sandalwood and trepang and maybe pearl-shell for much longer than a few hundred years. From an Aboriginal point of view, the goods they received would have broadened their consumption base, but most likely the purpose for the Timorese etc. would have been to sell the goods on to other traders on the trade routes west and north, eventually to markets around the Mediterranean (sandalwood) and China (trepang).

It's tantalising to think that incense being burnt in Rome during Julius Caesar's time could have come from Australia, through a multiple chain of proto-capitalist traders :)

Joe

Dear Loudmouth,

Bravo! That covers the overview on exchange. How about an explanation on the nature of capitalism versus commerce per se? You started to expound on this but cut yourself short.

PS I really do think you would have made a great Arts graduate. But, alas, it's such a shame that you couldn't get into a Arts program.

Misopinionated,

If you ever finish your TAFE introductory certificate, and go on to uni, you might benefit from reading any of the wonderful works of Philip D. Curtin, on the history and geography of trade. For example,

http://books.google.com.au/books?hl=en&lr=&id=R4IiYFhliv4C&oi=fnd&pg=PR8&dq=Philip+curtin&ots=mpqDl01Rgr&sig=mGNrL6Nq33pM2TYbsgX__YZPdzY#v=onepage&q=Philip%20curtin&f=false

Fantastic writer ! Died a few years ago.

You might learn something for a change :)

Joe