Pericles.. "delightfully lightweight" ? :) ohhhh... maybe you should skip to the 'advanced' column... anyway... you might like to listen some time to Alistair McGrath...
http://resources.theology.ox.ac.uk/staff.phtml?lecturer_code=Amcgrath
In fact..you can even write to him on that web page and tell him he is 'lightweight'.... but I think he holds to some kind of 'theistic evolution' view.. so he is not entirely my cuppa..

Sarah... I am noticing a common theme among the more passionate Anti-Religion mob.. and its "Bitter Experience of the Church" syndrome....
I feel sad for you and others in that boat, because I have as much reason to be that way as most I think... but I had the sense to recognize that the 'Christians' I encountered who gave me a bitter pill, were not Jesus, and they were not the whole Church.

I hope you will truly seek... read the Gospels and forget about any personal bad experience.. Jesus would condemn those things right alongside of you I'm sure.
But don't deny yourself the chance of emotional and spiritual healing.
Isaiah the prophet says (Ch 53)

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

The healing referred to here, is that which goes to the core of our being. By being "In Christ" we will indeed experience healing of the heart and mind.
cheers

Oops.. CJ.. *Points to Pericles comment about the statement*

Gee.. I was right.. phew.

"Yabby, If you need a crutch in life, use crutches.
Some of us do not need crutches."

Sarah, I fully agree with you. No crutches for
me either lol. But the more I study as to how
the human mind works and what we know about it,
the more I realise that the thinking bits are
only a small part of it all.

Some people just can't help themselves, they need
all sorts of crutches to feel ok. I've had long
debates with some of the new agers. Alot of the
stuff that these people believe, is just as whacky
as the old religions. They are just as convinced
about all their voodoo stuff as BD is convinced of
his religious voodoo stuff.

I take a fairly tolerant attitude to all this.
Believe whatever you like, live how you like.
Its when the true believers become political
and try to force us to live by their voodoo
influenced legislation, that I spit the dummy
big time

Thanks Pericles - and I acknowledge Boazy's right to question the extremity of Dawkins' language in the interview. I've read a bit of Dawkins' stuff, and it's usually admirably dispassionate.

But whether he hates religion or religions, that is certainly more intense an emotion than I would use about it/them. For me, while expressions of fundamentalism are usually more amusing than annoying, when they impinge potentially on my life (e.g. via legislation, censorship, terrorism etc) I resist them.

Otherwise, I recognise that religion/s perform a generally positive social function for those who need that kind of thing. People should be able to observe their religion/s freely, as long as that doesn't conflict with the rights of others.

I agree with you Yabby about believing what we like, the problem is when someone tries to influence or push others with their own beliefs it is bad manners, and at best offensive.
I spent ten years, from the age of five, inside religious institutions, and i can assure you it was not a loving or caring environment, these places were hell holes, without heating in a cold place, not enough to eat, no personal effects, no contact with the outside world, total isolation. It was like doing time in a prison.
I am more than qualified to critisise what was done to me and others. it was a life experience i would not wish on anyone. The brain cleansing was not the drip method, it was a deluge, and it was punishing and abusive, i received the whole spectrum of abuse.
The single thing that i learnt most, was the worst bits of the human condition, and also eventually to think for myself, and i have never put anyone on a pedestal.
I do not normally publicly tell my story, as it is difficult for people to put themselves in my shoes, it is beyond most people's comprehension.
I would get involved on any forum to do with religion, as i truly hate religion of any kind, for most of my working life i was a nurse, in all areas, including prisons, and i have a good knowledge of the human condition, the best and worst of it. I am a humanist and advocate for the rights of people, especially the under dogs of society.

CJ... 'balance' in one of your posts ? :) this is almost too much.

err.. just for the record, I'm not down on dawkins over his comment about hate for religion/s.... I'm simply pointing out a possible source of imbalance and bias in what he says..based on his emotional condition re religions. I specifically pick him, because:

a) He is high profile.
b) He is influential.

As far as I am concerned, he is just as much a lost sheep as any non Christians is, and is viewed by God with compassion and love and has the offer of salvation up to the moment of his death.

SARAH.... the things which happened to you are sad, regrettable, and awful.

Your experience was not that of all people.. please look at this account of the Bristol Ophanages and how they began.

BIO
George Müller was born in 1805 and until his conversion to the Christian faith in 1825, there was, on his own admission, hardly a sin into which he had not fallen.

He had become an habitual thief, liar, gambler and a cheat, devising cunning and devious methods to fulfil his evil desires. Besides his immoral ways it was George Müller's need for alcoholic drink that caused many of his problems. Even when his mother lay dying he was found roaming the streets in a drunken state.

COMMENT

From that man.... came orphanages caring for 1000s.

http://www.mullers.org/history.html#ORPHANHOMES

Now.. no matter how well intentioned George Meuller was, I guarantee that of all the staff needed for such an enterprise, SOME of doubtful character would have slipped into the system.

Don't let those 'some' determine the rest of your life mate.

BOAZ Thank you for your kind comment. I do not need to read about other peoples stories, though i understand where you are coming from, as i have had to deal with and heal my own person, which is ongoing.
I identify very closely with the Aboriginal stolen generations, and i am aware about so many people's experience of a lost childhood.
I am more outgoing than i used to be, and i have more trust in people, and i have even got self esteem, due to creating an identity for myself.
I feel that gaining more positives in a day, than negative ones, the world is a much better place, even though it is,nt.
I realise emotions can run a bit hot when discussing things that effects one personally, but we are all human, and we are all students of life itself.
Thank you for your understanding response. Peace.