"Feral animal invasion in drought leads WA graziers to renew call for access to restricted firearms"
Pastoralists in remote Western Australia battling drought say they need access to high powered, self-loading rifles to better control destructive pests such as camels and wild horses.

Farmers in WA say more powerful weapons will help them control feral animals more effectively and humanely
Police are totally opposed to allowing access to certain types of guns saying they could endanger the community
More than 140 recommendations made after a review of the state's gun laws have not been implemented by Government
Wiluna pastoralist Tim Carmody has shot more than 2,500 camels since the start of this year and more than 7,000 camels and horses since his family took over Prenti Downs Station four years ago.

He said the pests needed to be culled as they caused severe land degradation and competed with stock for water and food.

He said that higher-powered, self-loading firearms would allow for more humane control.

"It's all about the rate of fire, and when you get a mob of 20 to 30 camels you want to shoot them as quickly as you can," Mr Carmody said"

http://www.abc.net.au/cm/rimage/11726460-3x2-large.jpg?v=2[/img
http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2019-11-22/farmers-call-for-more-firepower-to-fight-ferals-in-drought/11725546

The ABC being diligent seekers after truth somehow managed to come a few croppers in the article.

First one is the photo of the young bloke about to get a black eye from the scope sight.

The WA police have a real problem with reality if they think that WA farmers would "endanger the community". However, the number of horses and camels shot by the pastoralist named doesn't seem to indicate that he needs firearms different from the ones he is using now.

How would semi-automatic weapons be more "humane". More bullets being sprayed around, but more likely less accurately, more wounded animals?

How about the farmers stick to farming, and the government subsidies professional, full-time shooters with some of the money they are wasting on climate change and expensive, unreliable wind and solar power.

ttbn,

Semi-auto rifles allow a quick second shot if the first is not immediately effective and thus could be more humane, they also allow the second shot and subsequent ones to be quicker, for the average farmer, thus more pests can be killed.

The "Adopt a Camel" deal that was offered to the Greens fell on deaf ears, Sarah Hanson-Young has not adopted even one and DiNastaly won't discuss the matter.

Oh bloody brilliant idea.

Quote

Gun theft on rural properties is on the rise, according to police, adding more worries for farmers already concerned by drought and bushfires.

Queensland Police Detective Acting Superintendent Troy Pukallus said Operation Athena, a coordinated attempt by all police jurisdictions to target illegal firearms use and trafficking, had uncovered a rising national trend.

"We've identified that we've got concerning trends across each state, particularly the theft of firearms, both in remote rural communities, not only in Queensland [but] in other states of Australia," he said.

Queensland police say firearms are being stolen from farms and used by criminals as currency in the drug trade.

Nationally about 1,300 guns are reported stolen each year.

End quote
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-16/farmers-easy-targets-for-unsecured-guns-stolen-for-drug-trade/11700110

I wonder how much a highpowered weapon will fetch as currency in the drug trade? Pretty penny I would imagine.

Farmers inconvenience over arming our criminal classes.

Should be no contest for anyone who cares about the safety of Australians.

Then why doesn't the WA Police go out & shoot the feral animals ?

Steele,

Note that I said for the average farmer.

For many practical riflemen, semi-autos are too slow for follow up shots.
The venerable Lee Enfield .303 is faster than many semi-autos of comparable power and it is one of the most numerous bolt action rifles in Australia.

Even I, at my advanced age, can fire 15 aimed shots in 60 seconds from my single shot Martini Cadet rifle and it's nearing its 100th birthday.

As most criminals use cars why nor ban cars that can exceed 100kph
and only allow fast cars to the police and military?

Ise mise he is not doing too bad shooting thousands this year
John Howard in implementing his gun reform served this country well
And while NSW shooters and hooters, along with some federal Nats wanted that shot gun, the government said no
Suits me if one man can shoot all those thousands two could do it faster

Hi Steele,

"Should be no contest for anyone who cares about the safety of Australians."

Can't recall the heads of the NRA in America ever expressing any concerns about the safety of Australians. Gee, that mob are not concerned about the safety of Americans, forget about Australians. The Australian chapter of the NRA, the SSAA and their political wing The Shooters and Hooters Party likewise have no concern for others, its all about their members perverted pleasure.

ttbn; "How about the farmers stick to farming, and the government subsidies professional, full-time shooters" Not a bad idea.

"Wiluna pastoralist Tim Carmody has shot more than 2,500 camels since the start of this year and more than 7,000 camels and horses since his family took over Prenti Downs Station four years ago."

Issy, who's looking after the farm while this bloke is out shooting an average 5 camels and horses a day? The camels and horses must be thriving, he's up the killing rate to 8/day this year. Very suspect. BTW why did he take over the property knowing there was an extreme feral pest problem.

"particularly the theft of firearms" There is a strong suspicion that a large number of these reported "thefts" are actually licensed gun owners dealing in the black market with the criminal class. An easy way for criminals to obtain guns, and for gunnies to make a fast buck.

PAUL,

'"particularly the theft of firearms" There is a strong suspicion that a large number of these reported "thefts" are actually licensed gun owners dealing in the black market with the criminal class. An easy way for criminals to obtain guns, and for gunnies to make a fast buck."

Is that another of your Green inspired lies or do you have evidence to back it up?

From the article, it seems that poor storage is the main fault but no one seems to want to blame that.

Of course, if the penalties for illegal ownership and use of firearms were applied consecutively and not concurrently with prison sentences we might see an improvement, but that's not likely to happen.

Personally, I don't want any semi-auto guns as I already legally own some with a faster rate of fire than any semi or fully automatic firearm.
And those are category 'A' the lowest rating.

A firearm locked away according to the Law, anyone with a slingshot can overpower someone trying to get the weapon out of the safe. Get the ammo out of another safe & load it well, the bloke with slingshot would've done you over before you can aim your gun.
Firearms in the right hands aren't dangerous at all, in the hands of a crank anything can be as lethal as a gun. Some people use their bare hands to kill ! Ban hands also ?

This morning's news from Perth
Police say they are concerned guns stolen from a Perth shop may end up in the wrong hands

Police say they are concerned guns stolen from a Perth shop may end up in the wrong hands
What ?
I'd have thought the guns were stolen for the benefit of the salvation Army or some other benevolent organisation !

It's pretty obvious that the stolen weapons will end up in the wrong hands. Why the hell do people think they were stolen in the first place? And what the hell has a gun shop robbery got to do with farmers' and graziers' access to firearms?

There are few guns stolen in Australian, but there are plenty of guns reported as stolen. A gun on the black market will fetch 5 or 6 times it legal market value. One gunnie in the Shoalhaven district south of Sydney, reported three guns "stolen" in less than 12 months. Another gunnie north of Sydney had an 'Aladdin's Cave' of some 200 guns stashed away.

As for political donations from the US gun freaks to Australia, I recently asked Issy if he had ever done a "cash run" from the US. It's is legal to bring less than $10k in cash at a time into Australia, but its illegal to hand it on to a political party. The Shooters Party in NSW received a $30k donation from an obscure hunt club, a mob that would be lucky to have 5 bucks in the kitty. Where did the dosh come from?

Its my opinion if Al Capone was alive today and living in New South Wales, the first thing he would do is get himself a gun licence, and the second thing, Al would join the SSAA.

". Where did the dosh come from?"

You tell us, Paul, you seem to know so much about the NRA, SSAA and the SF&F Party.

Just a reference or two to assure us that you are not lying.

While you're at it, why did the Greens in NSW oppose higher penalties for the criminal use of firearms?

That's right Issy, the Greens and the rest of the parliament didn't fall for the Shooters and Hooters three card trick. In return for mandatory sentencing of gunnie criminals, the gun freaks wanted carte blanche gun licencing, which would have seen five year old's with loaded guns. Everyone was a wake up to that one.

Paul,

You want us to believe that the Parliament would in some way have been forced to do what the two SF&F Party members wanted?

Hey! People are not that naive, they're also not going to fall for more of your lies.

The theory is that the Greens were protecting their drug dealer mates, same reason they wanted to get rid of police sniffer dogs.

How are you going with the backup for your other lying allegations?

Paul you city greens are sick people.

I have a gun licence. I have my rifles to protect my & my neighbors stock. I also use them to put down injured stock & wildlife. If you have ever seen the catastrophe of a vet giving their lethal injection to an animal, you would want to shoot it too.

I recently returned 40 rounds to the nearest gun shop, as they were too old to be reliable. I have used 10 rounds in 15 years, so to you I am obviously a crazed gun man.

God you need an education.

Hassy, I recall sometime back on the Forum you proposed we nuk 200,000,000 million Pakistanis, claiming, get them before they get us, do you recall? I don't consider you a crazed gunnie, just crazy!

Issy, I have given you evidence on a number of occasions on various subjects. Unfortunately since the evidence does not gel with your thinking you either ignore it, or reject it. Most of the facts I have presented to you in this thread are common knowledge and not in dispute.

You should familiarise yourself with the following website, it might help you see the light.

http://www.guncontrolaustralia.org/

Why should I familiarise my self with a pile of bull dust, put out by a pole of ratbags. Do try to grow up & get real.

Paul,

"You should familiarise yourself with the following website, it might help you see the light.

https://www.guncontrolaustralia.org/"

Well, you've finally done it.

Congratulations, you are now a true comedian.

Paul,

Perhaps you can shed some light on Gun Control Australia; do you know if there are more than the alleged three members?

The SSAA, which you continually revile, has more than 189,000 members and more than 440 clubs.

SSAA also details its income and expenditure annually, perhaps you could give us a pointer to where Gun Control Aust. publishes its financial report.
http://ssaa.org.au/members/about-us

Hassy,

You didn't deny calling for the nuking of 200K people in Pakistan, did you. Oh yes, and then there was your suggestion that the Australian Navy should open fire across the bow of unarmed refugee boats containing defenceless men, women and children, with 50 cal shot, recall that one? And you have the hide to tell me to grow up and get real. In my opinion you are a very nasty piece of work. BTW I didn't ask you to familiarise yourself with anything, you are way beyond help, and I wouldn't waste my time anyway.

Issy, can't deny any of what I say is true.

the Australian Navy should open fire across the bow of unarmed refugee boats containing defenceless men, women and children, with 50 cal shot,
Paul1405,
On the other side, Europe was invaded by unarmed refugees !

Paul defending our country from invasion is what real people, patriots do.

Welcoming the invader is what greens do, before they are eliminated by that invader.

Paul,

Found out anything about the mysterious and secretive Gun Control Australia yet?

Assistant Customs Minister Jason Wood will put an import ban in place, while also demanding states and territories ban the attachments.

"Bump stocks increase the firing speed of semi-automatic rifles and were used by Stephen Paddock when he killed 58 people in Las Vegas in 2017.

"Recent history, such as the tragic 2017 mass shooting in Las Vegas, has shown the devastating effect bump stocks can have," Mr Wood said in a statement on Sunday.

"It is my hope that these sensible restrictions will come into force early next year."

Is this a sensible proposal or a politician being seen to be doing something worthwhile?
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6495933/rapid-fire-gun-attachments-set-for-ban/?cs=14231

Is Mise,
From my experience with farmers and graziers, I found they are very practical and not given to spending money unnecessary. Therefore if they say they need semi automatic high powered rifles then I accept that as a factual need. The required weapons are certainly not cheap and obviously large amounts have been ,and will need to be, spent on ammunition alone.

However given the size of the problem in your example, it seems to me that other options need to be considered. No doubt they have considered any commercial aspects of getting rid of the pests.

I seem to recall talk of setting up a slaughter house for camels at some location and the sale of the meat. This was a few years ago now and I wonder if you have heard any more on that. I think it was in WA or maybe SA.

Henry L'

I think this about sums it up, the economics are wrong for meat export.

"The world trade in live camels is relatively stable at between 200,000 and 300,000 head per annum. Average prices are around US$400/head. The trade tends to be between Middle East and North African countries. Australia's cost of supply is estimated to be between US$1,000 and US$1,500/head."
http://www.mla.com.au/research-and-development/search-rd-reports/final-report-details/Live-Export/Camel-live-export-Supply-chain-and-benefit-cost-analysis/789

"Wiluna pastoralist Tim Carmody has shot more than 2,500 camels since the start of this year and more than 7,000 camels and horses since his family took over Prenti Downs Station four years ago."

So, why don't we do something useful with these camels instead of just shooting them and presumably letting their carcases rot. We have the biggest and genetically most diverse wild camels in the world. We know that camels can be domesticated.

There have been attempts to export camels, and there are problems - the relative cost of the process v. the sale price. Some innovation is clearly needed. See http://foodtank.com/news/2018/05/camel-meat-australian-outback-somali-americans/.

Why waste a resource that developed without any effort on our part?

Is mise, that MLA report was written in 2014. Even allowing for the financial disparity then, and probably still now, we should be more innovative. We do well with goat exports.

Cossomby,

It would be good to find a longterm solution but farmers are faced with a here and now problem; camels destroy crops, fences and waterlines.
They also drink waterholes dry thus depriving native wildlife of water and if the wildlife so affected does not have the mobility necessary to move to another hole then they die of thirst.

In the long term, the best outcome would be to kill all the camels.

Cossomby,
I thank Is Mise for bringing this to our attention.

It obviously is a far bigger matter than just allowing shooters access to weapons with increased fire power. There is the makings of an industry here if some enterprizing people can overcome the challenges and provide the finance. I do not care if the finance comes from our government or private enterprize.

It would be nice if a current problem can be turned into a profitable business. If the Yanks can aerial muster their wild horses and keep them in check surely we can do the same with our horses and camels and maybe even make it profitable. That would be a win, win.

Yes Issy, how about some up to date research on a business model for cannibalising camels profitably. Or put simply is the real agenda of the gun freaks to get more guns, and more powerful guns, into as many hands as possible.

That would be a win, win.
Henry L,
win, win is frowned upon by our treasurer, if it's for the wider community that is !
Centrelink will do everything within its power to maintain struggle street !

Paul,

Shooters already have legal firearms that are more powerful and are accurate at longer ranges than any semi-automatic rifle.

Don't you love the ban on bump stocks, that will really make Australia safer?

Hi Issy,

Can you give us some idea how many guns are sold by licensed gun freaks to the criminal class, and then reported as "stolen" each year in Australia? How often is a firearm used to commit a crime, only then for the police to report the gun involved had been reported stolen some time earlier.

Paul,

No, I can't but as you are the one making the allegation you must have some reliable source of information, so share it, please.

Or are you lying again?

STOP PRESS.

"Assistant Customs Minister Jason Wood will put an import ban in place, while also demanding states and territories ban boot laces

"Boot laces increase the firing speed of semi-automatic rifles and are completely uncontrolled.

"Recent history has shown the devastating effect bootlaces can have," Mr Wood said in a statement on Sunday.

"It is my hope that these sensible restrictions will come into force early next year."

The Assistant Minister came out against bootlaces when it was pointed out to him that they are more effective than bump stocks and allow not only the same rates of fire as bump stocks but much improved accuracy as well.

Further to the above, a ban on rubber bands will also be initiated as the Assistant Minister said that he wishes to be consistent.

Below is a YouTube of what Issy is going on about, bump stocks. This is what the American gun freaks run around with to kill people. Issy and the Australian chapter of the NRA would like to see 95% of Australians having almost total unrestricted access to this kind of firearm. You be the judge, would you like to see these weapons on the streets of our cities and towns, in your neighbourhood, being used against you and your family and friends like they are in America, I certainly don't!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2IOZ-5Nk5km

Paul1405,
I can only listen to American yapping for a very limited time so, I didn't watch the video to the end. From what I watched I could not see any evidence that the Australian gun lobby desires for 95% of gun owners to acquire this weapon which I think is simply evil !
My question is, why are factories even allowed to produce such a thing ?
If you cared to check you'd most likely find that it mostly falls down to lack of a sense of responsibility, care & general decency that comes from not having a National Service that people develop such a poor mentality that makes them want to have such weapons.

Indy, as we have discussed before, I am not totally opposed to some form of national service for ALL young people, no exceptions. I do however oppose out of hand, any form of military service as an option. Any NS must be of a real positive benefit, not Micky Mouse stuff, and must complement career and the future advancement of your people. There must be choice for participants and real outcomes. Agree?

Paul,

Are you as silly as the Acting Minister?

Surely not; you must have had a look at firing semi-autos with a bootlace, but as that would shew up your feigned indignation you cynically chose not to give it a mention,

Bump stocks are irrelevant to Australia as the legal users of semi-auto firearms are interested in accuracy as, presumably, are the illegal users.

" Can a semi automatic gun be made fully automatic with a shoelace?
This question previously had details. They are now in a comment.

Yes it can be done, at least with certain guns. You need a gun that has a reciprocating bolt handle, like a Mini 14 or a 10/22. And the ATF will come after you, as indicated by the letter below.

So why is it illegal and bumpfire stocks are not? It seems that they consider the string trick to be firing more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger — which is the definition of “full-auto.”
http://www.quora.com/Can-a-semi-automatic-gun-be-made-fully-automatic-with-a-shoelace

One should also consider the morality of manufacturing bootlaces in view of the above.

Paul1405,
Good to see your new approach to NS.

I'd like to see his new approach to truth telling and referencing his wild delusions.

Are you the fourth member of Gun Control Australia, Paul?

It's not George Soros 'cause he's the mentor.

An old friend (84) told me that he served six months NS in Australia in the 60's. Reckons he lost six months of his life !
When I suggested that that is a very small sacrifice to live in a comparatively safe society, he failed to acknowledge the benefit.
He doesn't see anything wrong with people being away from Australia for extended periods during which they contribute no tax but then demand a pension later in life. I'm afraid I don't understand such self-centredness.