A violent attack on a group of Muslim women sitting quietly in a cafe at Parramatta is written off as an attack by a deranged nutter.

Is that really true? And is that response from authorities sufficient to quell anger in the Muslim community.

The result of this attack on undefended Muslim women, will wear the outcome of a religious group in our community in need of protection in public places.

Muslims are feeling increasingly threatened in Australia, as they go peacefully about their daily lives.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QQLh4PKCL44

Dan

The 'deranged nutter' defence is accepted when Muslims shouting about Allah attack non-Muslims - so why shouldn't it be accepted when it's the other way around?

Ttbn,

Because neither is true. Both sorts of attacks are carried out by sane people with vile ideologies.

Joe

Well no, see in this case the offender [a worthless idiot] has both extensive criminal and mental health records
Saw it twice, and no way he should have hit them ever
Big City Parramatta, lived there briefly too
It has always [even back 60 years] had street people and mental health sufferers
Question, why should his mental issue make the victims pain any less important

The women must obviously have been dressed in Muslim garb otherwise no-one would know who/what they are & could not be targeted for being Muslim.

Dressed in Muslim garb and thus advertizing that they believe in the Qur'an and all that that belief entails.

Indy, what a load of crap! I'm a atheistic secularist, but I draw the line at a fascist comment like that. If someone who does not like clowns see you in the street dressed in your Ronald MacDonald outfit, should they be entitled to biff you one. After all....

After all....
Paul1405,
After all ... we know what you're like so you didn't disappoint ! You keep displaying your mentality for all to see !

Individual & Is Mise,

Are you suggesting that it's okay to attack women if they are dressed in ordinary Muslim fashion ? Do you realise how dreadful that is ? I certainly have no sympathy for Islamist ideologies, but what people wear is their own business.

Where would you draw the line ? You would support attacks on women wearing head-scarves ? Like my poor old English granny used to ? Like many older eastern European women do ? Or if they're wearing long skirts ?

Jesus, I'm supporting Paul ! Something's not right ;)

Joe

Joe,

"Dressed in Muslim garb and thus advertizing that they believe in the Qur'an and all that that belief entails."

That was merely an opinion as to why they may have been attacked, personally I'd never attack women and I have numerous Muslim friends, here and in India and my very best friend, a man who once saved my life, is a devout Muslim (he had four wives until his second wife died last year).
I have soldiered with Muslims and led them in battle and am very welcome at their celebrations on Indian Independence Day (a bit like Australia Day and ANZAC Day rolled into one, but no grog [officially]).
I was up there last year for most of August, including the 15th.

http://www.2gb.com/watch-shore-student-sucker-punched-after-man-boards-school-bus/

And to throw the cat among the pigeons, the above video of another public bashing, on or about the same time. This one a male and his female companion involved in a minor accident between a school bus and his BMW, on the Sydney North Shore.

Man enters bus in a rage and assaults and punches school children.

Is there something in the Sydney water supply, or is it head gear causing violent outburst?

Do you realise how dreadful that is ?
loudmouth2,
Well, probably nowhere near as dreadful as "kill all infidels" because they don't wear muslim garb ?

Constable Clod and his mate at work in Western Sydney;

The Law Enforcement Conduct Commission has published its report into the traffic stop on April 20 2019 near Parramatta this year involving two senior constables in a police car with flashing lights and a silver Holden Barina.

Footage recorded by body-worn and in-car videos captured the torrent of “rude and disrespectful” racially abusive behaviour towards an Afghan woman and her stepmother.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HctfcAI0D5M

The fact that I don’t look Australian, the fact that I look brown, and no matter where I go, the first thing I’ll be asked is where I’m from because of my name and because of the way I look […] I heard things like ‘oh, you have a terrorist-sounding last name’ said to me. I’ve had comments about my skin colour.

The above is from a news interview. Notice how attention is deliberately drawn away from the dress code & pointing at the more racist-based colour of the skin.
Such insidious playing with words is why we don't have harmony in our society. Now they're diverting towards racism again. Islam is not a race ! So, stop referring to it as such & stop challenging the people of your host country by wearing the uniform of Islam. Do that 7 all will be good.

The Coppers in Paul1405's video are uncultured morons.

To demolish individuals argument, which effectively is the Muslim women were to blame for provoking their bashing at the hands of a violent criminal; how does the bashing of school children dressed in a school uniform with little raffier hats, on a school bus compare. And should school children dress in casual cloths and travel on public transport?
Individuals is an bigoted anti religious rant with no substance.

Here is the video of the school children bashed on their bus by a driver of a BMW.
( not a Holden commodore).

I'd consider it intelligent to consider something deeper than anti Muslim bias, at the bottom of the random public violence.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q5-wZtgAgHA&ebc=ANyPxKp-rnRFhDPdBWX_49xpChJHTSbxxgbcyx6KafMn9sifI8wUaD61kLgly8ifBaKbgROFl2G8gJ78CpWAhH4SkmvB2mZWkQ

Everybody has the right to live however they choose so long as it doesn't have a negative or detrimental effect on the lives of others.

I know there's some issues with multiculturalism in Australia.
I think foreigners need to integrate into the country they're coming into;
It's not our responsibility to integrate into that nation the immigrant came from.
We shouldn't have to change our own culture to accommodate foreigners and globalism.
We should decide our own rules and future, not have it dictated by foreigners and globalism.

I don't think there's any real national democracy;
Not on a 2 party platform when one of these platforms is effectively an immigrant platform.
In this scenario it's actually international democracy being imposed upon nation states.

I also know that the ways of Muslim's aren't necessarily compatible within western society.
It seems they cause problems for the host country everywhere they go.
And they're only being used as a tool to help steal the sovereignty from the nations of western citizens for globalism.

But all that aside;

I won't disrespect or attack any foreigner simply because I have an issue with some of the policies and positions of my own nation.

My issue is with the policies that created the problem;
Not with the individuals associated with the problem.

In respect to individuals themselves;
I'll treat them on an individual basis.

Others may think me racist and my opinions divisive;
I think I'm entitled to express them nonetheless.
If I can't voice my opinion freely, then even the very facade of democracy itself has thus been abandoned.

Regards this attack, no-one should be subjected to treatment like that without fair cause, Muslim or not.
That's before we talk about the victims being women;
Or that the woman who bore the main brunt of the attack was heavily pregnant.

Even though I denounce and condemn this persons behavior unequivocally, I'd like to know the motive;
Whether it was a completely random attack with both parties unknown to each other;
And whether or not there was any kind of altercation beforehand.

DD, I'm rather familiour with the vertical Alcatraz in Waterloo, been inside many times. There was a proposal some years back to demolish the lot and relocate the occupants westward! There are other public housing estates in Sydney just as bad, but smaller in number. The "British housing experiment of the 1960's" cheap to build high rise was a social disaster. Before those monoliths were built in Waterloo, rundown terrace houses, with rats and cockroach's, bad plumbing and rising damp occupied the space, but it was a community of people who had lived there all their lives.

Dan,

I think you may have misinterpreted the comments by Is Mise. Please read his post again carefully. I don't think he is suggesting that Muslim clothing is in any way an incitement to violence, but a pretext for it by morons.

Joe

Good grief
Time to leave this thread
It has been used to tell us the very sick [mentally, long police record thing] had a right to hit that woman, see you in another thread

effectively
diver dan,
if you can't analyse & interpret , leave it alone please ! Why do you think they wear what they wear ? Think about, if you can that is !

Loudmouth2.

It's getting to me. Why have you resurrected yourself as loudmouth2?

In answer to your post. I've been so many years posting to this site, and become so complacent from lack of responses, I usually ignore everybody in return.
I don't think this is a site for sensible debate. But it certainly is a place to express opinions.

I had a bet with myself when I posted this thread, it would become a stoning ground for the sad little group who see no merit in Muslims outside of pillory.
And bingo, I won the jackpot. Not too hard to predict.

And if this little group were brighter than the dullest buttons, then it would take a millisecond of reasoning to figure from my posts, the problem with public outbursts of violence in the extreme, as witnessed with this case and the other I highlighted; that of the assault of school children by an equally deranged individual, that the violence was not visited on the Muslim women, due to their obvious religious appearance.

Then what?

Drugs. We in Australia are in the grip of the worst drug epidemic in history.
Drug users now load themselves up with concoctions of the most dangerous amphetamines and opioids, among other oddball drugs as bath salts, and become beyond psychotic.

My children's children tell me truthfully, of the prevalence of drug taking among school children as young as ten, who snort powders in the school playground. This is in the suburbs of Sydney.

You need not be Muslim to suffer the negative and too often violent consequences.

So, as for Is Mise, I don't care what he thinks!

Dan

Dan,

"So, as for Is Mise, I don't care what he thinks!"

Well, his thought was that what he said 'may have been the reason' not that it was the reason.

Had you read my reply to Joe you'd have seen that I have probably had more to do with Muslims than any of the other posters.
I'm alive today because of the actions of a Muslim, we were friends before that but we've been mates ever since he blew away the bloke who had me cold, particularly as I was able to return the favour a few days later.

Is Mise.

Look a badge of honour I need not for.
I've been shot at, stabbed, bashed senseless and owe nobody living anything.
There are aplenty dead I owe allegiance to, but alas too late.

I can assure you though, solitary confinement will not protect the clown who bashed the pregnant woman at Parramatta. The word is out. He'd be better off given a piece of rope to hang himself with, as was Epstein.

Dan

diver dan,
Ditto !
Same with the moron who mowed down these people with the car.

I think most sort of sane people would agree that the call by Islam to control the World is not to everyone's liking. So, I find it quite natural that people who openly flaunt their support for World domination by insisting to wear the uniform associated with that movement, are deliberately & consciously challenging their hosts' sense of patriotism to protect their lifestyle.
My feeling is that if you stop challenging people you won't get challenged in return !

Couldn't agree more (individual).

We've hit on a solid base for reform. We could take a walk back through history for a solution, and come up with a better and more appropriate form of justice for these public acts of horror against peaceful citizens, simply going about their private business.
Why should anybody be subjected to the anxiety of inappropriate outcomes impeding this basic right of freedom?

I like the approach of Duterte. Here is a local boy of the Philippines, famed for his extrajudicial killings of drug users and dealers, and other criminal elements in Philippine scum.
His is an example of "put your money where your mouth is" politics: And was a mayor of
Davao city for seven terms.

My view is, either the authorities hand these scum over to the public to deal with, (historical context), or let the public see some form of real and practical retribution.
Both of these basics are missing.

Dan

Individual:

My.. "couldn't agree more".. statement is not applicable to your last post above this.
If I agreed with that bigoted nonesense, I'd come up agreeing that it's ok to condemn religious apparel in public places, but not school uniforms.
That is just plain stupid. If that's the world you want, then it's already here. That world comes with tit-for-tat retribution as an outcome.
Obviously you failed to watch this video of a similar event aimed at Shaw college students on the North Shore of Sydney, dressed in their high profile school uniform.

http://www.2gb.com/watch-shore-student-sucker-punched-after-man-boards-school-bus/

Dan

While I would never physically attack anyone for any reason at at all, I have to say that I find the wearing of mediaeval apparel in a modern Western country very irritating, totally unnecessary and divisive. However, physical violence against people, no matter what they are wearing or what they look like, is increasing all the time. Authorities are obviously incapable of stopping it, so it would seem to be a good idea to avoid looking so different from the mainstream as to make it easier for some disturbed person to pick a target. We all have a responsibility for our own safety - even more these days, given the lack of interest in violence displayed by our police and judiciary, who are more interested in policing speech and political correctness than they are in dealing with crime.

Well ttbn:

as a kid, and for many years, I grew up among Israelites. They never shaved, nor cut their hair, ( pre-Beatles), wore funny little bowler black hats and white shirts with funny little waistcoats, and never engaged publicly with anybody I noticed.
We just stopped and stared, and it seems the whole town did the same.

But in reality they were embraced in the community, and were respected for their enterprise and reciprocal dedication to our society and town.
Where have those tollerent days gone, tell me!

Dan

high profile school uniform.
diver dan,
I'm not aware of school uniforms advocating World domination & death to us ? If you know something most of us aren't aware of then please tell us !

Individual,

Are you suggesting that head-scarves and long dresses represent the violent overthrow of Western society ?

Get a grip. Maybe Dan was right.

Joe

Left the thread over mindless racist things said but, need to say yes Dan you are quite right
Too reenforce my view some wearing middle eastern or Asian Muslim clothes seem to be confronting
But not enough to attack or insult them
Remember the offender was both the owner of a long police record and mentally ill
Some comments question others sanity in my view

Well, the thing is Dan that tolerance or intolerance has nothing to do with a suspicion or dislike of strangers and people who look different. It is a fact that all people prefer their own kind: people who are similar to themselves.

There is even a word to describe this perfectly natural phenomenon - 'Homophily'. It doesn't mean that outsiders are necessarily bad or inferior to ourselves. But it does mean that that multiculturalism and lumping different people together is an extremely stupid policy that brings about the frictions now occurring in this country and all countries with ignorant politicians and elites who chose to ignore warnings from people they wrote off as 'racists'

Are you suggesting that head-scarves and long dresses represent the violent overthrow of Western society ?
loudmouth2,
where did I imply that ?

hijab, niqab and burka identify the person as Muslim & that they do not oppose the doctrine of Islam which is to dominate the World by all means including violence.
The Christians did it a thousand years ago & it seems many Christians have seen the errors of their way & have changed accordingly albeit not fully as yet.
If Muslims could make a similar effort this world could actually become not a bad place to live !

I think I can probably accept Muslim women wearing a hijab (headscarf)
If they wish to show others they identify as Muslim;

The hijab isn't too offensive to me, so whatever
Preferably non-black though;
- But only because Muslims in black look like they're affiliated with IS

Dressing in a black sheet with a facial covering and a letterbox slot for the eyes is a bit much though...

No wonder they're identified as looking like terrorists
You're not wearing a suicide vest under there are you love?

If I see a Muslim in a headscarf I'm like:

Ok sign of the times, whatever, smile and be friendly and polite

If I see one dressed in a black sheet with an eye slot I'm thinking:

What on earth are you doing here?
You're not like us;
You don't fit in.

We don't respect extreme religious beliefs here, we make fun of them.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/28/go-ahead-white-australia-eat-your-kebabs-while-you-remind-us-of-your-values

Racists writing about Australia's past wrongs due to a lot of ignorance but accepting the benefits are not the answer either !

Individual.

The startling omission from the guardian article re your link, is the complete omission of convict labour.
It was actually built on slave labour which wasn't inclusive of aboriginals.

Actually, how lucky were aboriginals to be excluded from the real horror story, which was abuse of whites not blacks.

Dan

Hi Individual,

To the Guardian, values means food, and dance, and clothes, and special holidays. That's it. Not beliefs, ideology, religion, that sort of thing. So it's the sort of paper that kids be able to might read.

Joe

Yesterday, in court the criminal with long term mental health issues faced another charge
He was captured on surveillance assaulting two other women
No mention was made as to the race or faith of that two victims
This case is first and foremost against a criminal maybe too racist

The real issue for me is that of gender equality.

We have laws that prescribe the way women should be treated as equals yet a certain group in our society are allowed to debase women treating them as social inferiors who must be controlled by men to safeguard the interests of men. I do not see that as equality for women.

Why do politicians and bureaucrats turn a blind eye to this totally unacceptable behaviour by a lot of men in our society. If I did it publicly the way they do I would probably be dragged before the courts and charged and most likely convicted for not obeying our laws.

The politicians and bureaucrats would probably argue that it's a multicultural thing and people are allowed to act as independent disparate groups exercising their own system of mores and customs. I thought we were all supposed to be Australians first - stupid me!

The real issue for me is that of gender equality.
Mr opinion,
It might be THE issue for you, for most people though it's the threat of being overwhelmed by Dark Ages type control freaks !

Don't worry individual, the Chinese will look after you.

"it's the threat of being overwhelmed by Dark Ages type control freaks!"

No Indy, me thinks we are fairly safe from you and your mob taking control.

One problem is when those that espouse hate speech, a politicisation like Hanson, and some from the hard right of the conservative side of politics are given space on mainstream media which then appears to legitimise what these people are saying as normal. An example is how Hanson was given a weekly spot on Channel Seven.

Channel Seven’s Sunrise program will continue to give Pauline Hanson a platform each week despite host David Koch’s fiery exchange with the One Nation leader about her vilification of Muslims.

“We never shy away from debates,” the executive producer, Michael Pell, told Guardian Australia. “We canvass both sides and the viewer is left to make up his or her own mind.”

Letting The Guardian publish in Australia was as bad as throwing open the border to illegal immigrants. The (Pommy) Guardian is like burnt out American entertainers: when they turn up here, telling us how much they love Australia, and how much they've always wanted to visit, you know that they have had the dick in their own country.

The Guardian is simply a propaganda perpetuation facility for Leftists hanging off the taxpayers apron !

"At its peak, Goebbels supervised more than 3,600 newspapers and hundreds of magazines. He met the editors of the Berlin newspapers each morning and told them what could be printed and what could not. He kept in similar contact with editors based elsewhere in Germany using telegrams. It is almost certain that every editor knew what was in store if he broke away from the instructions set by Goebbels."

Where is that dinky-di Aussie jumbuck Rupert when you need him.

Mr O see the posters who, in the long run use this crime to insult a faith not the bloke who did it

Belly,
You mean faith in oppression ?

Belly,

Don't you mean a political movement?

Islam is a political system first and religion a poor second.

Is Mise.

Quickly, get off your sinking island before you drown in the rising tide of reality.

Learn to live with it, we are surrounded by countless millions of Islamist a very short distance to the North.
Our drunken Australian hordes, travel into this nest of Islamists to the North, to perty-on and make fools of themselves on the most part!
Have you been one?

Dan

diver dan,
I have many times drawn attention to these Australians who give the rest of the citizens of this Nation a bad reputation by their moron antics in Bali ! Why our Govt hasn't addressed this problem is a mystery to me ! They should be fined upon their return to Australia !
Schoolies mostly. Our Education ministers Fed/State must be just so proud of them !

Hey Is Mise.
Islam's got all 3.
- Religious, Political and Military Doctrine.

Dan,

"Have you been one?

No, but if you'd read earlier posts such as this extract "... I have numerous Muslim friends, here and in India and my very best friend, a man who once saved my life, is a devout Muslim (he had four wives until his second wife died last year).
I have soldiered with Muslims and led them in battle and am very welcome at their celebrations on Indian Independence Day (a bit like Australia Day and ANZAC Day rolled into one, but no grog [officially]).
I was up there last year for most of August, including the 15th.[ Independence Day].

Is Mise.

That's encouraging. Your reference promoting my response appeared disparaging.
I'm still unsure it isn't.

My intention with this thread was to weave into the popular dogma of anti Muslim, another possibility for the attack on Muslim women in the Parramatta cafe.
There appears to be a good chance this was a random event, coincidentally involving Muslims and not deliberately targeting them.

Another unhappy observation by Muslims concerning this event, was the lack of immediate action by many close-by males in the cafe.
The defining moment which ended the attack, was when one of the women smased a chair across the back of the assailants head.
At that point the males entered the fray.

There are many lessons in this event.
But without a doubt, the unfortunate event highlighted the curse of the drug epidemic currently ripping its way through a complacent society, unable or unwilling to acknowledge that at any moment, anybody from any walk of life can be instantly included into the violence that stalks us all, as a consequence.

Dan

Individual.

Re your post: Posted by individual, Wednesday, 27 November 2019 3:42:12 PM

Not only, but worse. Now the sad little products of affluence, are demanding their illegal drugs be tested by Government authorities at music festivals.
Put this one in the same basket as wiping out the shark population, keeping the sweeties safe on their surfboards.

I despair for this country!

Dan

diver dan,
These snowflakes demand that they can safely indulge in drug abuse at our expense. Could authorities really be so stupid & oblige ?

And the fear campaigns are to stop, no more of those nasty true to life adds.

Perhaps a bit of embarrassment might work, six of the best with a ratan cane across the bare bottom for possession or positive testing; to be administered by a burly Constable in front of the local Town Hall from 10:00 AM on Saturday or Sunday mornings.

Appalling as it is, "Anti-Muslim violence in Parramatta", certain politicians need to take some responsibility for stigmatising and stereotyping a minority, in this case Muslims, for political advantage. Pauline Hanson has made a comfortable living from minority bashing, Asians in the past, Muslims at the present moment. The hard right faction of the Liberal Party has engaged in a high degree of negative political exploration and scapegoating of Muslims for political gain. This politicising is extremely dangerous as it encourages some on the fringe to feel it is a legitimate right to physically and verbally attack Muslims, and at the same time encouraging ambivalence amongst the more moderate section of society.
A typical comment from a radical poster; The 'deranged nutter' defence is accepted when Muslims shouting about Allah attack non-Muslims - so why shouldn't it be accepted when it's the other way around?" This is then accepted by moderates as a legitimate attitude, when it is clearly not. Another comment which legitimised such attacks; "The women must obviously have been dressed in Muslim garb otherwise no-one would know who/what they are & could not be targeted for being Muslim." And to extrapolate from that comment you get; "Dressed in Muslim garb and thus advertizing that they believe in the Qur'an and all that that belief entails." Classic ways to develop a general attitude of community hatred towards Muslims.

Well I am not sure the criminal [long record of offences] with an existing mental health issues acted in an anti Muslim way
Was his second charge, related to a similar assault days before a Muslim victim?
And how many sufferers of mental health issues are walking our streets due to massive cuts in health care for such as them

Paul1405,
You either deliberately or ignorantly fail to draw attention to the fact that being Anti Muslim is a direct result to the incessant actions & rhetoric by Anti-West Muslims over centuries !
Get some some perspective into your arguments because the whole sad mess is the result of the one-way street variety !

"Dressed in Muslim garb and thus advertizing that they believe in the Qur'an and all that that belief entails."

Is that statement not true?

Does such dress send a message that they do not believe in the Prophet and that the Qu'ran is not the word of God and is not to be obeyed?

What we have here is supposed collective guilt by association. "incessant actions & rhetoric by Anti-West Muslims over centuries !" Should there be a couple of nuns dressed in their habits enjoying a peaceful coffee in Parramatta, Would it be justified to give the old girls a beating, based on the actions and rhetoric of the Catholic Church over the centuries, tell that one to the judge.

Issy, do ALL Christians believe every world in the Bible. You claimed to have a good Muslim friend, does he believe every word in the Quran, and since some claim it contains demands to "kill the infidels", why are you still living? 80% of Muslims in Australia say they have been racially abused at some time. Sikhs are abused for their Muslim religious affiliations!

A couple of years back my wife was abused on a Sydney train by a mentally disturbed girl. She lashed out with Muslim abuse and told the wife to get back to "Arabland", wherever that is. The likes of you pair would justify that behaviour based on the guilt of the religion. The fact the wife is a Maori and attends the Anglican Church did not come into it.

Paul ease up old mate!
Smug uninformed anti Muslim racism seems near a requirement for some here
Suspect the offender did not even know her sex
But it did open the door for troubling views

Is Mise,

Many Christian women in Middle eastern countries wear similar clothing, head scarves, long dresses, often all in black, to Muslim women. Check out pictures of Yazidi women. In most peasant societies, women wear head-scarves and relatively long skirts.

What people wear is a trivial and culturally-natural facet of their world. Muslim women are not out to get you by as part of a world-wide plot, deliberately wearing politically-provocative clothing. They wear what they're used to.

As well, it's expected of them to wear non-sexually-provocative clothing by their husbands and fathers and sons - after all, Muslim culture is highly patriarchal, I'm sure you would agree.

But I recall being on a bus when a Muslim woman, in full nikab, sat down next to me and started chatting. Beautiful eyes, which sparkled when she laughed, nothing phony about them. One of those memories that last a life-time. Maybe the only way she could get out of the house was by wearing such gear. Of course, alternatively, she might have undergone training in a secret ISIS camp in how to look beautiful in a nikab, how to appear sincere, in case she met Is Mise or other patriotic Australians and needed to subvert them. How would i know ?

Joe

Suspect the offender did not even know her sex
Good one Belly !

Paul1405,
Again you're avoiding facts ! Comparing Nunns of today with Muslim women of today with the actions & attitudes & beliefs to their predecessors is just simply total ignorance.
Nunns do not still repeat medieval rhetoric from hundreds of years ago, Muslim women do.

Paul1405,
ps. why don't you tell us what your wife thinks of the extermination of the original inhabitants of NZ by the Maoris ? Or, is that not true !

Rubbish, Individual. If you mean the Moriori who colonised the Chatham Islands, they WERE Maori and still have a presence in the north island of New Zealand. A DNA test would clear that up.

Joe

They do a lot better than our first nation indy you need to look it up

Or, is that not true !
Paul1405,
Hence the above question!

Belly,
Yes the majority of Maoris are hard working.

Thanks Joe, Indy not up with the facts are you. BTW no excuse the Maori were as war like as any European or indigenous. Gee the wife is always threatening to do a 'Boil Up' with white meat, ever since she found out red meat is high in cholesterol.

Joe, big catch up with hapu (the tribe not pregnant women) last Sunday, seven representatives travelled from Aotearoa for a hui hui tanga with those whanau on the east coast of Australia, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane in 3 days. The hui went for 4 hours, much to discuss, particularly the mandate negotiations with the New Zealand government. The total coast of the haerenga was paid for by the people themselves.

Hi Paul,

Sorry, didn't understand 'mandate negotiations', I'm out of touch :) Maybe an extension of the Waitangi Tribunal ?

Best wishes to your wahine tuhinga,

Joe

"Dressed in Muslim garb and thus advertizing that they believe in the Qur'an and all that that belief entails."

Is that statement not true?

sad

Hi Joe,

The situation is the Crown through it government representatives, seeks to negotiate settlements of claims arising from breaches of te tiriti o Waitangi. stipulating that the Crown would be no longer liable for any and all historic breaches pre 1992.

Mandate negotiations are where representatives of groups of Maori are authorised to negotiate settlements of claims with the Crowns representatives, for historic treaty breaches. Those representatives need to demonstrate they have the tautoko (support/agreement) of those they say they represent.

The government has previously called for Iwi representatives only to be involved in these negotiations. Ngati Hine the wife's hapu seeks to negotiate on its own behalf specific redress, of those claims pertaining to Ngati Hine, 53 of over 300 claims in total, and not wanting to agree to full and final settlement as the government demands.

BTW Joe, the NZ government was illegally using the Public Works Act to acquire Maori land for such things as roads, railways etc, up until the 1970's without due compensation.

to acquire Maori land for such things as roads, railways etc, up until the 1970's without due compensation.
Paul1405,
Aren't the Maori not allowed to take advantage/make use of these infrastructures ?

Thanks, Paul.

I would have thought that legally, Maori rights to land were safeguarded under standard British common law, and that if the Public Works Act contained clauses about compulsory acquisition of land without compensation, it would have been in breach of those legal safeguards.

Cheers,

Joe

Another Islamic terror attack with stabbings near London Bridge reported today. PC police have admitted that it was a terror attack, and the terrorist was shot by police at the scene.

Not only was the terrorist 'known to police' for being associated with terrorist websites and groups, he was also wearing a monitoring device, having been recently released from prison! The UK police and government are an even bigger bunch of incompetent clowns than our lot.

Dear ttbn,

No probs in Australia because the Chinese will look after us.

Mr.Opinion,

I think it much more likely that our politicians will continue to get more the CCP than the CCP actually taking us over.

No probs in Australia because the Chinese will look after us.
Mr Opinion,
They won't put flowers on our graves, they'll bulldoze our cemeteries if anything.

Hi Joe and Indy,

The problem of compensation under the public Works act came down to "legal title". In the case of the Northern rail line a corridor 40m wide was taken, as well as land for bridges etc. Pakeha farmers who could show legal title were compensated, where as Maori land was untitled, being passed down from father to son, and was treated as crown land. Also several large stone quarries for rail ballast were made use of without compensation. in one case Maori farmers were milking 150 cows, because of quarrying and environmental degradation, something that was never considered back in the day, that number was reduced to 60 and it never recovered. The line is now out of service.

Yes Indy, several people spoke of the benefits the railway in particular had brought to the area. It was said that in negotiations that benefit factor had to be taken into consideration.

Paul1405,
it just so happened that I anchored next to a yacht skippered by a part-Maori (his description of himself) & we talked about the terrorist attacks in London & Christchurch. He reckons the Maoris won't take that crap for a moment if they feel targeted !
Judging by his sentiments, Australians could learn something from them.

*...Another Islamic terror attack with stabbings near London Bridge reported today. PC police have admitted that it was a terror attack, and the terrorist was shot by police at the scene...* Ttbn.

Now Muslims have really got something to worry about.

That was an extrajudicial killing. What next, forced disappearances?

Democracy died today in the U.K.

Dan

good to see toxic males coming to the rescue.

3 Cheers for Multiculturalism

http://metro.co.uk/2019/11/30/london-bridge-terrorist-guest-prisoner-rehabilitation-conference-launched-attack-11244709/

A murderer was out on a day release ??
What am I missing here ?

You are missing nothing individual, it seems England's system of justice is as blind deaf and dumb as ours
Both much the same nonrepresentative people sit in judgment determined never to judge as we the community wants them to
Remember our offender was both mentally ill and had a long criminal record, our street is no place for such

"That was an extrajudicial killing. What next, forced disappearances?"

Moment police shot London Bridge terrorist Usman Khan
http://youtu.be/vOOKuGnD9Ag

I dunno Diver Dan, perhaps he should've stayed down.
He'd just stabbed people and was wearing a fake suicide vest;
- I probably would've shot him too.

Too many innocent people have died at London Bridge by the hands of terrorists.
I think its good his life ended right there as well.
3 cheers for the cop that shot him.

Usman Khan was no good, and he got what he asked for.

http://blackfridaydeathcount.com/

Whom and where is a terrorist a terrorist?

None of the above were classified terrorists.

http://i1.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/PRI_1026142511.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=540%2C346&ssl=1

And if you are Muslim, this is coming for you.

Would this be tolerated if the same scene were aimed at radical Jews?

Dan

*...A murderer was out on a day release ??
What am I missing here ?...* says individual.

Well, this will slay you. One of those stomping around on the day release Muslim, was a day release murderer, by the looks of him, a passive white Christian no doubt!

http://metro.co.uk/2019/11/30/murderer-day-release-rushed-to-save-woman-in-london-bridge-attack-11245029/

Dan

Dan,

Perhaps the lesson to be learnt is not to lunge at people with a 12-inch knife and not to wear what looks like a suicide vest. At least only do it in the presence of totally defenceless people, not anywhere near armed police.

Yes, I would have shot him too without hesitation. I hope too that i might be one of those wonderful people who tackled and disarmed him. A lovely young nurse from Loxton, here in SA, did the same in the previous attack nearly three years ago, running towards the attacker, and paid with her life.

And it turns out that one of his victims - hardly random - was an organiser of the conference on rehabilitation that he was attending. It raises the question of whether or not 'de-radicalisation' can ever be genuine.

Since what some bastard does in London has nothing to do with what Muslim women are wearing in Parramatta, I fervently hope that nobody is stupid or gutless enough to use this attack as an excuse to abuse them.

Joe

A failure of the British justice system, yes, anything to do with multiculturalism, no. A crazed killer gunned down by police, so be it. Those with the authority over this Usman Khan need to explain themselves as to why he was in the position to do what he did.

What punitive action against others in society will the hard right of the forum suggest?

Maybe you should've listened to Trump.
Firstly - Don't import people from 'shithole' countries;

And secondly,
Don't negotiate or have sympathy for terrorists.
- No discount for good behavior -

Lock them away for as long as possible.
Throw the damn key away for all I care.

Loudmouth three Paul we are up to our chins in folk who seem to want to target two women
Not the poor silly mentally ill criminal who attacked her
AND they think involving that gutless murderer from England makes it ok
Tell me folks would you brutally harm a woman for wearing whatever she wants to?
Are Muslim women lesser beings?

It's all down to the crazy-mad policy of multiculturalism. Religious nutters who murdered people, and plotted against countries they were allowed into (like the Muslims thankfully caught here recently and sentenced to 28 and 13 years jail) were not in existence in the West prior to the filthy policy.

We didn't need them; we didn't want them; but, our most dangerous enemies, our own politicians, thought it would make them look good with the UN and other global trash.

Belly,

"Are Muslim women lesser beings?"

Only to Islam.

Is Mise,

And if Muslim women are targeted because of what they wear, what might be their response in relation to Islam ? Alternatively, what might be their response if nobody much cares what they wear one way or another ?

Joe

While my sympathy goes to the families of those dead and to the injured, I find it ironic that the terrorist in London was to give a speech to a gathering called Learning together. The conference was about rehabilitating prisoners. Well they did learn something that day!

They learnt that prisoners should serve their full sentence and that the west should stop allowing in muslim immigrants and refugees. Also something about multiculturalism and diversity. Aspects of culture that we find alien are impossible to change, especially those that can be hidden, like hatred, under age marriage and FGM.

At some future point we are going to see the need to stop muslims from coming here. The risk to our community is too great.

ise mise we agree!
true and a disgrace, see I think the faith [most faiths] but this one the worst, wants to demote women
And while wondering how the pure hate for every Muslim turned up here share this
Multiculturalism is not better than integration
IT is the reason world wide racism is on the march
And a future time will come that sees a demand, for at least some integration
Even [sadly maybe post terrorist acts] selective immigration may return

Joe,

As far as I'm concerned Muslim women can wear what they want, except masks; wearing masks goes against most Western ideas of dress (except for special occasions).
It is notable that all over the world Islam is pushing the forms of dress that their men (not all) mandate for their women to wear.

Belly,

Integration may be a slow process of social interaction, over a generation or two, but it's probably happening faster than you think. And probably more with women (girls) than with men (boys). Watch the kids coming out of high school these days, who they mix with.

But surely it's racist to attack women for what they're wearing ? How will that help integration ?

Joe

ise mise I share your view again, let's face it some countrys far from racists have banned such clothing
Leave, for a second religious rights and practice out of it
Why mark difference
Why do SOME wear it [and they do] to express a difference
In all things compromise is often the best outcome
And one day we will not see this type of clothing in use in the west

Belly,

"Why do SOME wear it [and they do] to express a difference"

Because that's what they're used to. So what if it's different ? Indian women often wear saris, older Greek women often wear black, are you going to ban that too ?

Joe

in light of the anti infidel murders this weekend maybe the title of this thread should be 'anti infidel violence'. The abc could run a special on it.

Judging on the theories presented here, and in view of a sudden decline in interest in Christianity, a simple solution to the problem of public security brought on by an Islamist view that all that are not Islamists are infidels, and thus must be killed, then convert to Islam.
Problem solved.
There is a historical context to this idea. There is a precedent.

Dan

Joe,

"Because that's what they're used to. So what if it's different? Indian women often wear saris, older Greek women often wear black, are you going to ban that too ?"

But they don't wear masks.

My Muslim mate in India has forbidden the wearing of full covering dress on his estates and consequently, not wearing it has spilt over into neighbouring areas; his wives, when they were younger, used to wear veils but don't wear them these days.
I was considered family so I saw them unveiled and was even, on rare occasions left alone with them; I once remarked to him that I appreciated the trust that he had in me.

He laughed and said, "I don't necessarily trust you, mate, I trust my wives, besides each of them, has a knife and has been taught how to use it".

Indian women often wear saris, older Greek women often wear black, are you going to ban that too ?
loudmouth2,
I wasn't aware that older Greek & Indian women suggest we should become Muslims or be killed ? Or, are you just being silly out of frustration ?

That London Bridge stabber moron seemed to have a serious DNA conflict.

We always wander, this and that way from a threads direction
Our direction seems now to be to target wildly ,for now Muslims
When we clean that mob up maybe us Anglos will be the next target? see you in another thread

Individual,

So ...... women dressed in hijabs and long skirts are explicitly " suggest[ing that] we should become Muslims or be killed ?" That's the difference ? You're not complaining about any and all women dressing differently, but only about Muslim women dressing differently ? Is that it ?

Strange, I've never been admonished by any Muslim women that I should become Muslim, otherwise I'll be killed. Has that happened to you ?

If not, then why not let people wear whatever the hell they like ? How is it my business, or your business ? Why politicise what to many people is simply ordinary dress ? Why turn a non-issue into an issue ?

Joe

Joe,

Masks.

Is Mise,

So it's only women who are wearing nikabs or in a burka ? Okay, fair enough, although if they're not doing anything objectionable or offensive, so what ?

Joe

Talking of masks Issy, I was at a Westfields shopping centre today. There's this bloke dressed like Gomer Pyle on bivouac, get my drift, cammy gear and all that. He's got this life size mannequin also dressed like Gomer, except the big doll has a full face mask, looked like one of those WW1 gas jobs, and a stupid hat on its head. Wow me thinks, is this guy for real? Well he's one of your mates, want to flog me some jerk off 'INDOOR PAINT BALL' crap! As bad as the wonnabe soldier dudes with the jelly guns, and they call it SPORT! Should we lock these nutters up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPPc5I5aHYM

Joe,

People in masks do not fit into everyday Western Society.

Strange, I've never been admonished by any Muslim women that I should become Muslim, otherwise I'll be killed
loudmouth2,
Let us know what their replies are when you ask them if they condemn the teachings of the faith they so go out of their way to show us they support, that call for non Muslims to be exterminated.
I mean you would be against what the Nazis did so why are you defending when another, even longer established hate group desires similar or worse? Or, do you as a Muslim defender approve of what was done to the jewish people ?

Paul,

Only if they don't have a licence for their make-believe guns.

Is Mise & Individual,

So ....... to wear particular sorts of clothes means they're out to get us ? All a bit paranoid ?

Is it possible that many Muslims, like other believers in various gods, wear their beliefs lightly, not thinking much about it all, any more than the average Christian agonises over whether Tamar or Esther did the right thing, or where did Cain go (since we're all descended from him: didn't think of that, did you ?), or if Job showed enough gratitude for god's gamble with Satan, or what is the deep meaning of the Good Samaritan story.

So if you pointed out some of the more brutal verses in the Koran, they may well be surprised, having never read it. If anything, they may see wearing head coverings and long skirts as necessary and a sign of modesty, and not having much to do with the Koran at all. After all, usually the Koran is parked high up in a Muslim house where it can't actually be read.

A lot of us, maybe most of us, do not entirely 'fit into everyday Western society'. I should hope not. Many of us, even here on OLO, question some of its basic principles. That's how a democratic society works.

What also is supposed to work in everyday Western society is the Rule of Law: if someone breaks the law, they pay the penalty. If they observe the law, they're free to do whatever the hell they like, including wearing clothing that they're familiar with.

Masks ? Isn't one of the demands of the Hong Kong authorities that protesters shouldn't be allowed to wear face-masks ? Mind you, I can't stand that stupid, smug moustachioed mask that some wear.

Joe

Joe,

As I said, I don't care what they wear but masks are not everyday dress for Australians.

As I also said Islam is pushing its extreme forms of Muslim dress worldwide, twenty years ago in India, for example, most Muslim women wore a variety of sari or other female dress but never masks.
To the casual observer, they were indistinguishable from other women, but my wife used to tell me the subtle distinctions in dress that separated Muslims from Hindus and indeed one region from another and caste from caste (although caste no longer exists officially as it is banned).

Things have changed and all over India, Muslim women are to be seen in the full tent.

Unless you wish to legalise balaclava's and make it free for anyone to get around wearing a mask to deliberately conceal their identity; then I say no.
They can keep the veil, and leave the face covering;
Otherwise go back to wear you came from.

We already had a Ned Kelly in this country.

AC,

So ...... to wear a nikab or burka is a sure sign that someone was about to commit a terrorist act ?

I remember reports, when I was a kid, of another kid in his Superman uniform jumping in front of a train at Chester Hill. His uniform wasn't much of an indication of his ultimate mortality. Not that women wearing nikabs do so as some sort of test of their mortality either.

So how is it any of your business what people wear ? How is it offensive if some women want to cover up as an honest expression of their modesty ?

Joe

AC lets look at your view, are catholic Nuns about to murder, when did the last Muslim woman murder in our streets
Be offended by what they wear but lets not construct feble untruths to support our views

Before I respond to you two, do you both understand I'm a citizen of this country?
Do you believe in democracy, or do you think that means because I believe something different to you that you can discard my concerns without consequence?
How is it democracy for me if you dismiss my concerns and do whatever the hell you want with our country anyway?
Your blind support means I don't get a choice.
When do I get a say that counts for anything more than just feedback on the decisions you blindly approve?
Who's say is more important?
The concerns of gatecrashing Muslims been here 2 weeks sucking away your pension benefits with their 10 kids on benefits or a 9th or 10th generation Aussie?

Why is it that you think my opinion doesn't matter?
How is it democracy if my opinion doesn't matter?

And why am I being victimised by you two that seem to support foreigners who do not respect our way of life here in our own country wearing clothes that also hide their identity?

It's no wonder this country's stuffed, you've both lost sight of who your own people actually are.

Well, FYI it's not just YOUR country.
I'm a bloody stakeholder too.

[Cont.]
When there is an eventual terrorist attack by radical islamists that tears this nation apart what will be your response?

- You'll jump on the side that blames me -

You'll say it was my fault for my inflammatory racist rhetoric, (or parrot the grovelling mainstream media that does your thinking for you) but you won't take any responsibility for that fact that you did what you wanted with our country despite my concerns and objections.

At the same time I'll be trying to defend myself, but I will blame you for not having any consideration that your choice denied me any choice.

So then we'll be blaming each other, and it won't change anything.

Belly,

Western Nuns, both Catholic and non-Catholic don't wear masks.

Maybe I was a little too harsh?

For the record, I was on the side that defended the Muslim woman.

Hi AC,

Can you please read over what has been said in recent posts ? With respect, your last posts have been a weird sort of paranoid rant. Plus a good dose of 'up yourself'.

For the record, I'm happy for anybody who commits, or plans to commit, any sort of terrorist act, to be jailed for life.

But if someone hasn't commit any such offence, then they should be as free as any other Australian to do what the hell they like, to wear what the hell they like, to believe what the hell they like, to say whatever the hell they like, provided it's within the law. I'm presuming some little Muslim woman going about her business as she is entitled to do, dressed as she pleases, is not attacking anybody or - unless there is some evidence - planning to do so.

Who the hell are you when you don't have your crown on, when you're not on your mighty throne ?

Joe

Hey Loudmouth and Belly,

I'm sorry I didn't respond directly to your questions.
The reason I didn't do so right away was because I wasn't sure your questions held enough merit to even be worthy of a response.

Loudmouth "So ...... to wear a nikab or burka is a sure sign that someone was about to commit a terrorist act ?"

Of course not, but what the hell does that have to do with anything?

"AC lets look at your view, are catholic Nuns about to murder, when did the last Muslim woman murder in our streets"

I remember a couple years back a Muslim mans second wife murdered the first wife, but I can't remember all the details or find a link.

The argument I'm getting from you two is that if we presume that they aren't doing anything wrong they should be able to do what they're doing without being challenged.

Everybody 'should' be able to live however they choose so long as it doesn't affect others in a negative or detrimental manner.

But by that line of thinking I should be able to go into a bank wearing a balaclava and not be expected to be questioned or discriminated by anyone; if all I'm doing is making a regular lawful banking transaction like anyone else.

Also with that line of thinking, I should be able to walk down the street waving a gun or machete around, so long as I don't attack anyone else with it.

(FYI, I own neither and intend neither)

My issue is 'equality';
'what you do for one, you do for the other'.

I can't even go into a bloody servo in winter with a hoodie on without being treated like an effing criminal.
Even when its the middle of the bloody day and my car is parked right at the pump with my rego right there on camera.
They won't even turn the pump on.
I get treated like a piece of crap and a second class citizen for doing something that isn't unlawful by the laws of this nation.

If you dress like IS then we better not criticise them hey;
Lest I'm the one who's bloody criticised.

But if an Aussie wears a hoodie to a servo, streuth, we better lock him up.

I'm seriously getting fed up with this new Aussie idiot mentality.
If someone says something that goes against the 'official narrative'
Doesn't matter if those concerns hold merit or not;
Then lets just attack that person.

What a bunch of childish imbeciles.
Lets just push all these pathetic baseless arguments and then bully the person in the court of public opinion with the help of all the other dumbed down useful idiots.

- Pathetic -

If you want a rant, then you're lucky I don't have to drive past 20 Muslim women in burqa's and tribes of Africans just to go to the local shops, in my neck of the woods because if that were the case then I'd really uncork.

Thankfully where I live hasn't turned into Mogadishu or Medina yet.

You know the second I go down the local shops and it doesn't feel like my country anymore, then you idiots in your idiot choices have successfully stolen my country from me.

What do you want me to do?
Make like the 29% of Aussies that were born elsewhere, pack my hat n coat, piss off and go and impose on someone elses country (that which I oppose) just to get away from the bloody mess you grovelling halfwits have created?

Bending over pulling their bumcheecks apart trying to be worldly and accomodating?

Where am I going to go?
It's the same shite everywhere.

You leftists are globalists, there's nothing nationalist about you.
If there was a war, I'd fight to protect this country, but why would I fight to protect you?

You don't care about what's important to me.

AC your post puts you close to our authors apparent loss of reality as seen in some posts
Let me be honest I DISLIKE THE Burka
Think it is a man thing, used to control women
I do not think wearing it is like a mask, or that it turns women in to criminals
I remain convinced integration not multiple cultures trying to each be different is the best outcome
But then again as it remains my view no God ever existed my view remains no faith should tell us how to live

Belly,

"I do not think wearing it is like a mask,"

If it conceals the face then it is a mask.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mask

Why did you only mention Catholic nuns?

The only nuns that I see now-days wearing the habit are Protestant as 99% of Catholic nuns in Australia wear ordinary clothes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nun#Protestantism

AC,

"I remember a couple years back a Muslim mans second wife murdered the first wife ...."

So .... that was because of how the women dressed ? Or because the murderer was a terrorist ? Or because of some other reason ? Jealousy perhaps ? Perhaps women who wear hijabs tend to be more jealous than 'ordinary people' ?

And then this" . "The argument I'm getting from you two is that if we presume that they aren't doing anything wrong they should be able to do what they're doing without being challenged."

Well, yes. 100 %. " .... if they aren't doing anything wrong ...." I wonder if you believe, deep down (and not so deep), that such people shouldn't exist at all ? It's not their country, it's yours ? They simply shouldn't be ?

And maybe I live a sheltered life but I've not seen any woman wearing a hijab waving a machete around lately.

As for balaklavas, of course people shouldn't be able to go into a bank wearing standard bank-robber dress. I wonder how many banks have been held up by women wearing nikabs. Any stats on that ? Have nikabs been designated as standard ISIS dress code yet ? Or can we usually see, for example, a terrorist's beard ?

So what's your real gripe ? That such people shouldn't exist in Australia, no matter what they're wearing ? Why not bring in the language whinge, why can't they speak our language ? Which =, not being anglo, they're not really entitled to do anyway ? So why don't they all go back home instead, save a lot of complications ?

And those pesky Africans too - why should they exist ? Send them home ? Australia should be an all-White nation ? Is that it ?

Get used to the idea that it IS your country and you share it with many other people who wear all sorts of funny clothes and speak funny languages. Which is their right, as much as yours is to speak only English. And wear hoodies.

Joe