Paul,

You get stuck into me for putting together historical material for a web-site: www.firstsources.info , fifteen thousand pages of it, and then claim that I ignore history. Maybe kale smoothies and avocado soften the brain.

I'll say it again: tragedies and atrocities happened in the past. In the past. Let's recognise them when they can be validated with evidence, commemorate them, etc., and move on. And maybe praise what Indigenous people are doing right.

I'm happy to discuss any aspect of our history that you like, with evidence if possible. Which bit am I ignoring ? Cook's voyage up the east coast, where, as he wrote somewhere, that he was never out of sight of the smoke from camp-fires, which seems to be an indication that he certainly recognised that people were living here ? That bit ?

Actually, on the subject of 'terra nullius', I don't think that anybody back then and until recently, ever claimed that the continent was empty of people - if that's how half-wits define 'terra nullius'. Actually it's more of a legal-technical term, meaning land over which people don't seem to have a system of ownership, by which they seem to mean a system of sale and purchase of land. It seems to go with 'res nullius' - groups which don't seem to have a recognisable system of government and sovereignty.

Aboriginal people here - apart from the vast numbers engaged in farming, Paul - were often hunters and gatherers, roaming over the land collecting food. Europeans had come across such foragers before of course, in western parts of what is now the US, and in southern South America, and perhaps in parts of India and a few isolated parts of Africa where people were overwhelmingly farmers and pastoralists, and had been for thousands of years. But Europeans always had trouble working out how people living as foragers related to the land as proprietors rather than users, who was the responsible person to negotiate purchases, etc.. Gosh, if only more of them had been farmers .....

Enough history for you ?

Joe

Individual,

"Can Non-Aborigines then define where their Tax Dollars & wasted Good Will go ?"

Yes, of course, I wish they would. I hope that we get a government which strictly monitors how the taxpayers' money is spent in Indigenous affairs, by demanding that they set down their realistic goals, year by year, and submitting all organisations' activities to scrutiny, promptly scrapping them if they can't demonstrate that they are achieving what they are being paid for.

In other words, paying by results - and withdrawing all payments to organisations which aren't achieving much at all. That should save maybe $ 32.5 billion, out of the $ 33 billion sloshing around Indigenous affairs each year.

Why do you equate paler Aboriginal people, or southern Aboriginal people, with corruption and incompetence ? If anything, it's pretty general across the Indigenous scene, as far as I can see.

corruption and incompetence ? If anything, it's pretty general across the Indigenous scene, as far as I can see.
Loudmouth,
Well, I can't argue or dispute your experiences but my observations led me to believe that those of extremely little & in some cases no Aborigine visible genes are simply out-voicing those who are clearly of a greater percentage & clearly visible Aborigine heritage.
I don't know as many of those than I do of the former but the ones I had the opportunity to mix with aren't as divisive as the latter.
The Aborigine gene-deprived have pulled the wool over the eyes of the wider Australian community very successfully but due to their lack of management skills & or corruption far too much Goodwill & resources have been wasted that could have otherwise made huge positive differences in the living standard of Aborigine & non-Aborigine Australians. As I really shouldn't have to point out we're talking Billions !

Dear Paul,

Lowitja O'Donoghue a Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara
woman is one of the most revered public figures in Australia.
She is a former chair of the now disbanded Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander Commission and in 1992 was the first
Aboriginal Australian to address the United Nations General
Assembly:

" Since the 1967 Referendum, Australia has been living a lie.
It has patted itself on the back as a fair country. One that
treats its citizens equally and especially protects the
vulnerable. Don't get me wrong. I am proud to have helped
to secure the "Yes" vote that recognised us as citizens and
more than mere flora and fauna. It was important. But it
pains me to know that the Constitution still contains a
potentially discriminatory power, which can be used by the
Commonwealth against our people or, indeed any other race."

"And that it still lacks any explicit recognition of us
or our place as the First Australians. Of course our
founding document was framed in a different era. Many say we
cannot judge it by today's standards. Perhaps not, but we can
bring it into line with those standards. This would be good
not only for our own heads and our hearts, as per advice
from the Royal Australian and New Zealand College of
Psychiatrists, but also for the nation's soul."

The rest of the speech is available on the web.

Food for thought.

Captain Cook Day 7th November, would be a great day to celebrate one of history's great mariners, explorers, map makers, Cook's achievements are legendary. In my opinion landing at Botany Bay and then claiming the east coast of New Holland for Britain in the way he did was not a great achievement. Cook was a man with short comings, he had great success, he also had some failures. Simply to paint Cook as an historical figure of nothing but pure greatness, is blatantly wrong.

The killing of James Cook by the Hawaiians, what went wrong? In no way do I condone Cook's murder, or the killing of the 4 Marines, or the 15 or so Hawaiians at the same time. However Cook was as much to blame for his own death, and that of the others, as any of the Hawaiians were.

Foxy,

Would she be of one of these families?

"There are several completely different O'Donoghue families in Ireland.

(1) The Ó Donnchadha of Cashel, from the Eóganacht Chaisil, related to the O'Sullivans, MacCarthys and O'Callaghans. They descend from Donnchad mac Cellacháin, King of Munster.
(2) The Ó Donnchadha of Desmond, from the Eóganacht Raithlind, related to the O'Mahonys, prominent in County Kerry and referred to as "O'Donoghue Mór." They descend from Donnchadh mac Domhnall.
(3) The Ó Donnchadha of Osraige, from the Clann Conla, related to the Mac Giolla Phádraig dynasty ("the Fitzpatricks") and produced some kings of Osraige, prominent in County Kilkenny and commonly anglicised as Dunphy. They descend from Donnchad mac Gilla Pátraic.
(4) The Ó Donnchadha of Uí Maine, from the Uí Maine, related to the O'Kellys, prominent in County Galway and County Roscommon."

"Donoghue or O'Donoghue is an anglicized form of the Irish language surname Ó Donnchadha or Ó Donnchú.

Etymology:
The name means "descendant of Donnchadh", a personal name composed of the elements donn "brown-haired [man]" and cath "battle". Spelling variations (which include an initial "Ó" or omit it) include Donoghue, Donaghoe, Donoughe, Donaho, Donahoe, Donough, Donahue, Donahow, Doneghoe, Donehue, Donighue, Donihue, Donoho, Donohoe, Donahugh,etc."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Donoghue

Marvellous thing, culture.