Chinese business man[Developer] and an illegal donation in 2015 brings down states ALP Head
Now yes I remain a true believer, and up front know [have worked with then against] its money man in this case
Loudmouth in another thread spoke of a centrist party, we need such a party
And if we intend to govern it must be the ALP
Be assured this crisis will not go away, and know it came about from members of my faction
Center Unity,our right, if you like center
But unlike others My side MUST end forever the recruiting of idiots and any smell of factionalism inferring greatness on grubs
In the end I know the man, know he was forced out know we did good in doing that BUT tell me how the voters will un-see this?

For how long have I been saying that Australia's politicians, bureaucrats and business community are in the hands of the Chinese?

It's not just Labor and I think we are just starting to see the tip of the iceberg. To all intents and purposes I think we've been gradually sold out to the Chinese over the past 30 years.

And now it looks like Australia definitely has a Chinese future unless we give them their marching orders and start rethinking the Australia-China relationship that only seems to really benefit China.

We need a Trump to give the Chinese their "marching orders". There is no Australian politician with the guts or the gumption to do it. 1.2 million Chinese, all potential spies, living in Australia, plus students that universities now rely on.

It is not just cyber spying we need to worry about; every member of the Chinese diaspora, all over the world, has the potential to spy for the mother country. That's just the way they Chinese are; they don't pay many professional spies, like the West - they rely on loyalty, fear and favour of ordinary Chinese in their everyday lives. That is not to say that there are a few dissidents who have escaped China and are loyal to their adopted countries. But, they too are under pressure from the Chinese Communist Party.

We were deeply infiltrated by Russian spies during the Cold War. It would be naive to think that ASIO or our third rate rate politicians - Labor or Liberal - have a handle on Chinese infiltration in the universities, media and industry. We know of some backhanders taken by politicians. How many have we not heard of? And, don't forget the price of setting up business in China in the way of information and CCP nosies sitting on the boards of companies.

"If it was possible for a Soviet mole to work undetected within ASIO for more than thirty years and end up as head of security vetting, why would we believe ASIO now to be secure against comparable penetration by the Chinese?" (Paul Monk, head of China Analysis for the Intelligence Organisation in 1994-95 and the author of Thunder from the Silent Zone: Rethinking China (2005) and The West in a Nutshell: Foundations, Fragilities, Futures (2009).

Well as an informed person who is up to his eyes in the Labor party, I find nothing useful in the first few posts
And as a person who knows and worked with Clements, I was re leaved to see him dumped
Too after two losses state and federal, Labor must not wait for the other side to fall over
Both state and federal have good leaders now
But truth be known both sides if we knew every donor would make us mad
Why
Some smaller party's exist ONLY to get the government funding per vote after they get a certain percentage EG one nation Pauline's ATM.
Any one want to tell me voters did not form opinions within a minute of reading the latest scandal?
Fund elections or make it law every donation must be seen

Dear Belly,

I think you are a good fellow, but I also think it is not wise to be a true believer in a political party, a religion or anything else. Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect.

I think this affair proves one thing: when it comes to money people in high places have been turning a blind eye to China.

I wonder just how extensively China has infiltrated every section of Australian society. Do we really want a country where every second person has a loyalty to the motherland China?

http://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/icac-nsw-labor-inquiry-live-sam-dastyari-to-front-commission-over-donations-scandal-20190829-p52lv3.html
David f I truly have held that view of you from our first meeting here
I counter your view with this
If some one like me never ever stops demanding accountability then we can hope still for better from our party
And nothing but that will silence me
Just think, if every party rather than hide its faults, was held accountable what a great world it would be
Locked in a far different world some in my party are unafraid of things we needed on formation[in that far different world]'
For them solidarity[deliberate blindness] is ok
This issue as seen in the link is very big in NSW and will be in the next sitting of federal parliament

I think this affair proves one thing: when it comes to money people in high places have been turning a blind eye to China.
Mr opinion,
I whole-heartedly agree with you on that !

We should remember, with eyes wide open, and biases locked away, Others have bought support this way
No way I agree with it but even our councils have been bribed by developers and often
Politicians, all sides, will not give us a national ICAC, they know they will be a target
Anyone with knowledge of the NSW ICAC will know the man who founded it Nick Griener [then head of a Liberal government] fell after [wrongly] being investigated
From then both sides have tried to weaken it
And while this matter is before that place it is much weaker than it was meant to be
We, if we want better, must have a national investigative and prosecuting force free to work on any matter without political interference

Both major political parties in Australia are at fault for not working on closing legal loopholes.
We have an Army of public servants who should be but are not engaged in improving the situation. Petty mishaps or mistakes are pounded upon whilst deliberate exploitation of loopholes is endorsed by none other than the ATO. We even make millionaires out of Lawyers who are legally permitted to exploit the loopholes. Surely, this can't just be due to an inability to close loopholes but rather a case of unwillingness to do so ! I'm sure there are a couple of thousand public servants just milling through the day with nothing to show at the end of it, they could be tasked with closing loopholes !

Another crooked Labor functionary has bitten the dust after taking advice from grotty little Sam Dastardly.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/lawyers-and-labor-go-separate-ways-20190829-p52m6n.html
In airing this unhappy event many, maybe even most, on my side will be offended
So be it we can Ostrich like hide our heads
But not force those swinging voters we need to do the same
Even MORE important if we hide our wrongs we have no right to highlight others
Labor is challenged as never before, right now, in my view, we need a Labor government
History will remember these last and next few years as a swing point, one that see,s old class warfare become out dated
And one that see,s only a center path can bring voters back to my side
The link includes the review of the last state election
And in my view demands Labor understands the voters and moves with them, not minority's

Belly if you were to ever open your eyes you would see that Labor is the party of big unions, big business & big bureaucrats, & to hell with the rest.

When Labor is in power they are in bed with big business, supported by big bureaucrats, ripping off the rest, including the "workers" who arte merely cannon fodder to union leaders.

I am sure deep down you know this, but refuse to open your eyes as it destroys your reason for being.

Labor understands the voters and moves with them, not minority's
Belly,
Sounds noble enough but how're we going to get Academics, bureaucrats & other lefties to ever understand the average voter let alone care about them ?

The Labor Party is not for the labour party.

is Mise,
God knows how many times I stated the same. To-date no-one's explained to me how Academics, lawyers, the deliberately unemployed et al have any connection whatsoever with the term Labour !

one day someone might have a great revelation that the heart of man is corrupt. Given the right opportunities and environment man will often choose the wrong actions if he/she thinks he will get away with it. Those from the NSW Labour party have shown consistently that my point is true including the women who rival the men. Look at Glady's filthy little baby killing agreement with the Greens/Independants showing it is not just Labour.

Hasbeen I have refrained from insulting some who in honest truth deserve it here
Not including you we clash but in the end you have no intention of ever looking with unbiased eyes at my side
I think YOU should post complaints about YOUR side
But know you never will
And in not doing that you abandon any hope of improvement
YES my party needs constant reform and improvement, and yes it gets in to bed with industry, as good government must
See we are an economy as well as a country, we must never forget that
Liberalism ONCE had policy's to help the under privileged not now
A day will come, as it must a Labor reformist government will remake health schooling, welfare, tax reform, can you say that[and know it is true] of your increasingly uncaring party?
I opened Labors wounds here in this thread, as a demand nothing be held back that the rubbish bin is emptied and given a good scrub out after, in the service of better government and politics

Dear Belly,

I'm back.

I haven't been able to follow much of the news lately.

However I was able to watch the funeral service of
Tim Fischer in Albury. It was very moving.
Some of the eulogies really resonated with me.

Especially when one of the speakers remembered
days gone by when politicians were of a different
calibre. Not so much concerned with mantras and
slogans and "selling"the party line but genuinely
interested in doing a good job for their constituents.
When Question Time in Parliament was more about
getting genuine answers and learning rather than
tearing each other down - and repetitive output.

I'm sure that Labor will learn from this latest
debacle and will put reforms in place.
Hopefully, the Coalition will take heed as well.
Vested interests and donations need to be examined
by all parties.

Belly your party most definitely does not need to reform, what it needs is to return. Any reform with its present management will be to move further towards it's elite, & further away from the people it claims to support.

If it returned to what it was in my youth, the 50s, it just might be of some use. While it is full of & controlled by university trained smarties like Shorten it is only a hindrance to the average Australian. It is now the party of academia, bureaucrats, union leaders, & the welfare bludgers, with the little bloke tax payer who pays for the lot of them shoved out in the cold.

We used to put blinkers on cart horses, so they could only see to the front. It stopped them being frightened of things they couldn't see. Mate the blinkers your Labor leaders have on you lot leave those horse things for dead at hiding things you should see.

Hasbeen,
You've really said it all. Nothing more can be added to explain the state of the Labor Party.

Foxy great to see you back hope all is well with you
You and a few will know my hope is this dreadful event will force changes
I know it will, but too some of those changes will confront my friends
Hasbeen will continue to throw rocks at my party, but not his own
That presumes his has nothing to hide
Quite wrong
Only open debate, on such as this, can bring the much needed improvements I demand
It, remember was 3 years ago, too we removed the man who took that bag,and the present holder of that position, needed airing
What was the donor wanting? free run at developments or worse Chinese interests in our governments?

Hasbeen will continue to throw rocks at my party, but not his own
That presumes his has nothing to hide
Belly,
You really need to do something about your bitter twisting of words. Hasbeen's not throwing rocks at your party even though they richly deserve it. As it appears to me he's trying to do the same as I & others are trying to do, to wake you up & see the errors of your blind loyalty.
None of us Conservatives has ever claimed the LNP to be flawless, far from it. They're simply not as incompetent & hypocritical as the ALP, that's all. As the old saying goes & even some Pacific Islander former leaders use the term "the lesser of two evils".
You're so eaten up over the slightest criticism of Labor that it's affecting your moral judgement. Ease off for crying out loud. Take a good look at the useless mutts you're giving so much of your support. You need to realise that it is wasted on them ! Over & out !

indy in truth not much to say about your blind view see your view of good government hings on your national service fascination not much else
No party we ever had or will have will ever be perfect
And while I could list a very long list of failures from this federal one, I still want their supporters to do that

Belly I realise it is almost impossible for someone like you, a totally blind supporter of a Labor that no linger exists, to realise most of us are not supporters of any party. I have never supported any party, ever. I know it is hard for you to believe, but most don't give a damn about parties.

I could have supported Hawke, if he hadn't collapsed on the nuclear issue, showing he wanted more to be PM than do the right thing by the country.

I could have supported Keating, if he hadn't been so far up himself I could not see him.

Yes I am anti socialist/communist, & equally anti the rip off mob Labor have become. It should have been obvious to even blind Freddy that I was totally anti what the Libs were under Turnbull, & I was not much more favourably disposed to them under Fraser.

You want a middle ground, well you sure have it with the current lot in power. Very much too far left for serious conservatives, they are only marginally better than Turnbull, & perhaps only in word, rather than deed.

I could have supported Howard if he had stopped the crazy immigration, & not pandered to the anti gum lobby, & I would have loved to support Abbott, if he had been able to get that foot out of his mouth. His stopping of the boats is still the best thing ANY PM has done in my life time.

I can't believe anyone could want a dill like Albanese as Oz PM, but I suppose he is only about twice as bad as Morrison.

While you have this belief that everyone supports a party the way you do, you are crippled in forming any opinion on other posters, our comments, or the facts of life.

Hasbeen do you understand you rant?
Also you get close to madness in claiming while your thoughts are good mine are foolish
Do not give your self tickets you never earned
Know my belief in fair go mate shines still
That while your side is wasting millions in deporting kids mine could have stopped the boats [there by stopping your side using it as a weapon] forever with the Malaysian solution
Too we wanted tax reforms based on fairness you gifted the already rich
Dick Smith told of his HALF A MILLION DOLLAR franking credits each year
Your side talks of extending the cash less welfare card, refuses to give pensioners rises
And bloke truth be known your side is up to its dirty shoulders in questionable donations
Including giving tax breaks to people who do not pay tax
EG Rupert Murdock

No party we ever had or will have will ever be perfect
Belly,
For crying out loud, isn't that what I just told you ? None of them including myself are perfect.
What I did say & I stick by my words is that the LNP are the less incompetent of the two. As for 'Including giving tax breaks to people who do not pay tax' I can tell you that I have personally witnessed staunch Labor supporter Public Servants working on their salary sacrifice, negative gearing etc. in working hours, using the work phone, computers & faxes.
Even to pick up their personal mail the used the office car, Teachers were amongst the greediest, all Labor supporters, so stop telling me about that crowd !
Yes, our big Company bosses are out for as much as they can get because Govts let them but at least they employ people, public servants don't, they just scramble their frequent flyer points.

Belly what is your problem with simple English?

I don't have a side.

Is that plain enough?

This morning very early out of bed, I have read the news and this subject is still burning my party
Yet here my view is I am told, uninformed and wasteful
My mate [yes I think he is] indy is near breathless shouting at me to wake up
Can you walk with me on this, think just for a second about my view?
See these actions took place three years ago
They, wrong then wrong now, are likely mirrored on the other side
BUT is my demand for constant improvement from my party, constant refusal to let such things take place wrong
Fundamentally if we ever, ever hide such as this because it is our party we are as bad as the idiots involved
ONLY constant demands for better is good enough

As long as these useless maggots in the Public Service are getting our support on voting day, they'll continue to take us for granted. Serves us right !

Did I hear correctly that a cousin of Xi Jinping, who is probably an affiliate of the Chinese Communist Party if not an active or silent member, was able to obtain Australian citizenship? Can anyone confirm that?

Doubt politicians think of them selves as public servants indy
From what I have seen few are, in fact most on every side are in it for the money
Still if we stopped airing my sides wrongs and started airing the other sides we would end up depressed with the old public servants thought
*Nothing really matters any more*
It however does and always will , my party has shed some already and more will go, a good result, accountability is always worth the effort

Well well, for once I agree with Opins.
Having read the Silent Invasion and read the organisational structure
around the Work Dept of the Chinese government I am alarmed.
It is a Dept dedicated to infiltrating and controlling foreign governments.
It is the application of Tianxian. The principle that China is the
Central Kingdom and all surrounding countries are vassal states.
Only China is sovereign and all others owe tribute.
You can see this in the 9 dashed line in the Sth China Sea and their
insistence that Vietnam's coastal waters will be developed by China.

Pres Xi Jingping said recently that the USA is not a sovereign country.

Bazz we had two threads talking about the very real danger the Chinese are
And every day we get near a point they will show us
The protesters have pushed too hard, and they need to know the very thing they want most, freedom, may be lost
Still if we knew, one day we will, how widespread the Chinese influence buying is and has been, you can bet no party did not get handouts
My mob is in trouble, quite stunning that SOME on my side, want to say nothing and stop me saying the truth, about this shameful event
Albo has it right in this mornings press this should/must drive reform

Australia's politicians, bureaucrats and business community have been handing out citizenship and permanent residency rights to cashed up Chinese from mainland China because they were greedy to get their hands on the money these immigrants bring into the country even if it meant ignoring that these immigrants were affiliated with the Chinese Communist Party and that they had undivided loyalty to their ancestral homeland.

Not trying to bury the shame my party has bought on it and those like me
Know, [yes it will hurt my mates] the man who took the cash is ex my union
But as even more bad news emerges may I?
ICAC that is the group holding this inquiry
Why not a national ICAC?
One immune from political interference
Why not investigate donations to both sides?
Why not indeed