Ambassador to the US Kim Darroch was forced to resign after highly uncomplimentary comments he made about Trump in confidential dispatches were leaked to the press and Trump refused to deal with him any longer.

My view is that the newspaper was highly irresponsible in publishing the information, as it ending in a highly respected public servant having to resign.

I am interested in other opinions.

By whom was he “highly respected”, SM? How many people would have heard of him before he made a thorough prat of himself?

He is certainly no diplomat if he speaks about the most powerful politician in the world the way he did. That sort of language is best left to political agitators and, perhaps, people like us who are not paid a lot of money to be circumspect and respectful to the country their government has sent them to as their representatives.

Don’t blame the media. It’s their job. Whoever leaked the story is the one responsible, after the chump himself, of course. Probably someone on the chump’s staff.

Agree Shadow minister all your points
He had every right to think his words would not be heard by anyone other than those it was sent to
America under Tramp has made love to its enemies and war on its friends

Dear Shadow Minister,

Thank you for not challenging the assessment as no doubt some of OLO's flogs will be want to do.

These were the ambassador's words;

"We don't really believe this administration is going to become substantially more normal; less dysfunctional; less unpredictable; less faction-riven; less diplomatically clumsy and inept."

The amazing pace at which high profile white house staff have been turned over is a glaring example of the deep dysfunction within it.

What governments need from their diplomatic staff are frank and fearless assessments otherwise they are not doing their jobs.

The ambassador thought he was giving this advice in confidence. I certainly don't think he should have shirked his duty just because the US have a vastly immature cry baby of a president.

His 'resignation' would have been requested. He will be lucky to get a job counting paper clips. Like everything else, the diplomatic service is not what it used to be. When government servants start insulting their masters' strongest allies, particularly those in the Anglosphere, things are grim. Given that these are the sorts of people who advise gullible, untrained politicians, we have a lot to worry about.

Hi SM,

According to The Washington Post Editorial Board
the British Ambassador Sir Kim Darroch, a seasonal
professional was highly respected in Washington.

Sir Kim was embarassed last week-end by the leak
of some of his tough-but-fair assessments of President
Trump and his administration in private cables to
London.

As the Post points out - another White House would have
simply over looked the ambassador's cables rather than
demonize relations with a close US ally. But not Mr Trump.

Who turned a minor kerfuffle into a major diplomatic
incident by launching into a series of crude attacks on
Sir Kim forcing him to resign.

Even the Post admits that this is one more example of the
US President's inability to stomach criticism and of his
strange zeal for assaulting the US closest ally.

The leak needs to be investigated.

Boris Johnson had better run for cover.

"We don't really believe this administration is going to become substantially more normal; less dysfunctional; less unpredictable; less faction-riven; less diplomatically clumsy and inept."

Coming from a clown representative of the government that has made a dogs breakfast of Brexit, & has even declared a climate emergency, that is obviously as biased as anyone can be.

The Brits have lost it now completely, & should be a damn sight more careful who they send of on "diplomatic" missions.

Foxy sweetie, we know you are irrational in your lefty view of Trump, but suggesting, "Sir Kim was embarrassed last week-end by the leak
of some of his tough-but-fair assessments of President
Trump" is going too far. He is part of the UK swamp that Trump is draining as fast as he can in the US, so we should consider him totally unsuitable to be sent as the ambassador to the Trump administration, & his opinion useless.

Dear Hasbeen,

What a childish response fitting the buffoon you seem constantly having to defend.

Sir Kim Darroch is a member of the public service and has served under governments of both stripes. He is not a political appointee roped in at the whim of the party in charge.

Speaking of the swamp neither did he gain his position due to his qualifications of being the president's son-in-law.

Why to you turn such a blind eye to Trump's nepotism? The embarrassment his daughter caused by he ineptitude in dealing with world leaders was painful to watch. Trump has drive swamp levels to extraordinary lengths and you still think the sun shines out of his proverbial?

Why?

Interesting that Trump supporters have branded the man, interesting but dumb
He did nothing people from every country do daily
Father of JFK did just that
Too as Trump moves ever closer to his assured downfall, how will his supporters handle that?
Logic says they will question their ability to see the truth
However the lack of that ability will see them fail to do that
I would like to see here in print, the evidence ttbn thinks he/she has to back up that rant

The failed diplomat and nitwit is probably of the same calibre as the ones behind the idiot Teresa May, totally ignoring a democratic vote, and doing her best to block Brexit. Britain is cactus; a once mighty world leader, now a pathetic, undemocratic version of Mexico and the like. That's what extreme multiculturalism and political correctness does to you. Even the jerks supposed to be diplomatic have adopted the anti-Trump syndrome to appeal to morons. No wonder Trump wants to cut the Brits and Europeans loose on defence. Our morons need to start showing him some respect, too.

ttbn please tell us how and using what evidence, you came up with your views
I think, rather like Hasbeen you insult him only because he told the truth about Trump
Too if you have the ability [somewhat doubtful] tellus what you think makes Trump great

Yes ttbn, From SR, "Sir Kim Darroch is a member of the public service", so obviously a full member of the British swamp.

He has proved what an idiot he is, by this venting of his personal animosity to Trump, & he is supposed top be diplomatic. Utter idiot, a lot like our lefties, just not quite as bad.

Dear Hasbeen,

Pray tell what part of his assessment you find to be the most egregious?

"We don't really believe this administration is going to become substantially more normal; less dysfunctional; less unpredictable; less faction-riven; less diplomatically clumsy and inept."

Most of those reading it would feel it fitted the facts on the ground like a glove. The Mueller report exposed just how deep the dysfunction goes within the administration.

Is there any part of it you find particularly unfair or inaccurate?

I think you all miss the point.

Every diplomat of every country sends home secret assessments of the leaders of the countries where they are based. It is part of the job. The USA is no exception, in fact US diplomats are very explicit.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_United_States_diplomatic_cables_leak_%28analysis_of_individual_leaders%29

If Sir Kim faithfully articulated precisely, the official position of what his government thought of the TRUMP Administration, then he's doing his job, albeit without any effort of diplomacy. If however if he sought to inject his own (personal) opinions and views into his commentary, well he's done the wrong thing.

I always thought, from the Foreign Minster down, to the most minor of diplomatic staff, in some remote mission, you were still required to articulate the official position of your Government, despite your views. After all, it's you, who's the face and voice of your Government, in situ.

O Sung Wu. "I always thought, from the Foreign Minster down, to the most minor of diplomatic staff, in some remote mission, you were still required to articulate the official position of your Government, despite your views."

Read the comments by US diplomats in their secret cables. They make extremely critical personal assessments of the heads of government.

Diplomats have two jobs:
1. publicly articulating the position of their government to the government of the country where they are representing their government.
2. privately giving their government their frank assessment of the government of the country where they are representing their government.

The second is as important as the first. It was ever so: in the Roman Empire, in China, in the middle ages in Europe, in the days of the British Empire, and today. Governments have always wanted secret, frank assessments of other governments and their leaders, whether friends of enemies.

If Sir Kim never made any public criticism of Trump or his administration, but confined it to private reports, then he was doing his job.

Hi there COSSEMBY...

Many thanks for your response to my Post. I couldn't agree more with you. The diplomatic staff must give their respective Minister an accurate and factual opinion of their host nation, imperfections and all. And of course, that opinion should be given 'in-camera,' and might have no bearing whatsoever on what the Diplomate may say publically, about his host Nation. Is it not often mentioned, the road of diplomacy is often tricky?

I would find it very difficult indeed to speak 'glowingly' about the US President, Donald TRUMP, the most powerful leader of the free world? But to many of the US voters, he must have some charisma and enjoy a certain degree of popularity with some, together with the Electoral College(s), to be voted in as President initially. Moreover, I believe he'll probably win a second term of four years. I will admit to having a certain amount of admiration for the man, nevertheless. Thanks, COSSEMBY.

Some of us both wish to deny the views expressed about Trump are majority views
And ignore the evidence given here, that American diplomats have been every bit as bad [if truth can be bad] as they propose this man was

The only people (or person) at fault here was whoever leaked the ambassador's cables.

The ambassador was right to write to his government as he saw it.
The UK government was right to keep these missives secret.
The US government was right to make the point that the ambassador's position was now untenable and to force the UK to make changes. There was no way the ambassador could ever again deal with the US government in any meaningful sense.

It seems clear that the leaks were designed to embarrass Boris Johnson. No sooner had the cables been exposed than the anti-Brexit press were trying to force Johnson between a rock and a hard place. Boris played the trap well and comes out with an enhanced reputation, although his enemies will continue to claim otherwise.

So someone was happy to endanger the 'special' relationship for crass internal political purposes.

As to the ambassador, while he was right to offer his honest opinions, they were clearly coloured by his own background. Trump and his administration is overhauling all internationals processes and norms, recognising that they have worked for many years against US interests. But the elite in the US and Europe are utterly dismayed that the policies that gave them power and wealth are being dismantled. They want their privileged position protected and that means opposing Trump wherever they can.

Many here won't understand that.

As to things being inept and dysfunctional...

"Sudanese say US pressure was key to reaching transition deal" (http://apnews.com/2649713a1c90439aa6abc297cc2e2a4d)

I'm pretty sure this wasn't covered in any of the normal press read by those with TDS, because anything favourable to Trump must be suppressed, n'est pas?

mhaze total agreement,the leaker may never be found but let us hope they are

Dear mhaze,

Trump finally showed a glimpse of intelligence bringing in Donald Booth who was U.S. Special Envoy for Sudan and South Sudan under Obama.

Appointed just a few weeks ago he has brought about concrete results. That is what you get when you appoint an experienced career diplomat who isn't your son-in-law or your daughter.

Booth's appointment was an aberration in the otherwise turgid swamp Trump has created in the Whitehouse.

Perhaps he is owning up to the mess he has made of the job and starting to step up even if it is a little.

mhaze. "Trump and his administration is overhauling all internationals processes and norms, recognising that they have worked for many years against US interests."

The US works for its own self interest, to protect its power and privilege, and that means that it will often work against other countries' interests. So why is it so wrong if, when other countries have worked in their own self interest, to protect their power and privilege, that sometimes that may be against US interests?

There are however circumstances where a country's self interest may be advanced by helping another country's interests. That's why there are alliances and trade deals - you can often help yourself better by helping others, and that may involve some concessions for the greater gain. I see little indication that Trump understands this. His philosophy seems to be along the lines of 'whoever dies with the most stuff wins'.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-12/sir-kim-darrosh-british-ambassador-cable-leaks-brexit/11302182
Link confirms the man is far more sibstancial that some would have us think
Too if found the leaker may be put in prison

"Trump finally showed a glimpse of intelligence bringing in Donald Booth"

Yes I see a lot of people saying that anything good coming out of the US is down to others, while anything even passably bad is all down to Trump. Those people consider themselves to be unbiased!

Cossomby,

"The US works for its own self interest".

Actually most countries do. (exceptions like North Korea do exist).

The changes Trump is wringing in are which USians the nation works for.

In the past, the US championed global trade and Pax America, to the advantage of some Americans but significant disadvantage to many others. Manufacturing was out-sourced to China et al, providing the coastal elite with cheaper goods while the workers in the fly-over states saw the jobs and livelihoods disappear. Additionally, illegal immigration was quietly accepted, providing the elite with cheap labour at the expense of the displaced US workers. Equally, with Pa America where it was the the sons and daughters of the working class who fought the elite's wars.

Places like China, Europe, Australia and a host of others were all good with this since they also benefited.

Trump is unravelling all this, which is why there are screams of hurt from around the world. Its why the British upper-class (eg ambassadors) hate Trump and long for a return to the old ways where their power and wealth were subsidised by the US working class.

Many don't get this. In the midst of the Reagan/Thatcher economic revival, many didn't see what was happening around them and only a decade or two later was it acknowledged. Trumpism will be likewise misunderstood until its finally understood.

Of coarse, the elite aren't beaten yet and there's every chance they will ultimately defeat Trump and his revolution in 2020. All revolutions hang on a knife-edge. Its a bit like Brexit where the elite are working to overwhelm the clear wish of the people. They may still win. Or the EU where the will of the people is largely irrelevant.

Its interesting times...a shame so many are missing it.

We see the man from many different points of view, but some just latch on to him as the next bright and shiny thing
He will fall, no one charged with so much by so many must
It may not be next year the Democrats have far too many seeking his job, and they may well pick the wrong person again
But this thread, its comments, highlight for some the man can do no wrong
It remains my view Trump has put the western world in very real danger by ignoring faults in the very worst people/countries
And declaring diplomatic and trade war on those who once at least, America thought of as its friends

"We don't really believe this administration is going to become substantially more normal; less dysfunctional; less unpredictable; less faction-riven; less diplomatically clumsy and inept."

No connection of course, but Secretary of Whatever Acosta has resigned, after great praise from Trump. Acosta was public prosecutor in Florida who got Trump's other bestie, Epstein, a sweet deal for rooting little girls and prostituting them. I suppose the question now is: will Acosta stay out of jail ? And will he get a sweeter deal than Epstein ? And how soon before Trump didn't know him ?

"We don't really believe this administration is going to become substantially more normal; less dysfunctional; less unpredictable; less faction-riven; less diplomatically clumsy and inept."

Joe

My view will confront many and even question my sanity from others
But truly honestly believe the Trump administration is corrupt and too that big money owns it
Has in fact owned it from the end of ww2
History will judge my views, it too will judge Trump
But if it is honest it will track a country that let politics and finance belong to big money
This latest charge, against a man clearly treated softly, highlights cash can buy anything in today's America

Loudmouth on Acosta..

Oh dear LM, looks like you're gunna be disappointed all over again. Do you poor souls never give up on you're this-time-we've-got-Trump rhetoric.

I'd actually be fascinated to know how people who seem reasonably logical and well-read become so moronic when reading about Trump.

Read a bit more. Acosta resigned because of the shrills around his handling of the case. Acosta says he got the best deal possible and that the FBI protected Epstein. Who was running the FBI then? Trump and Epstein weren't friends. Trump banned him from his Florida resort because of his (Epstein's) inappropriate behaviour.

Fear not LM. When this doesn't work out the way you suppose, you can just 'forget' that you were misled by whoever you read. Talk to SR about how to do that...he's already forgotten that he even knew who Warren was.

Hi Mhaze,

FYI, I don't have much time for any of the gaggle of Democrat candidates for 2020. I suppose I think that the US can do far, far better than both Trump and this motley crew. I certainly hope so.

Joe

I too doubt the Democrats will pick a winner
But no sarcasm roll on the floor laughing at m hazes misplaced trust in Trump
Surely thinkers are concerned about his mental state?

Dear mhaze,

You dribbled;

“Do you poor souls never give up on you're this-time-we've-got-Trump rhetoric.”

My goodness you lot are so defensive about your President that you just make things up. Where in Loudmouth's post did he even insinuate this was going to impact Trump? Or see him off? There was none.

To paraphrase your goodself;

'How do people like yourself who seem reasonably logical and well-read become so moronic when defending Trump?'

SR and Foxy,

While not making a judgement on Kim Darroch's assessment, I do agree with the commentary I listened to on the BBC, which is that given the previous leakage of diplomatic postings and the embarrassment it caused, Kim could have given the "unvarnished" assessment just as well without using the highly disparaging hyperbole that he did.

During this program the questions were raised as to whether:
1 - The postings were leaked because of the juicy language used and,
2 - If less inflammatory language were used, whether Trump would have frozen Kim out.

However, once the posts were made public, the reality is that Kim's term as ambassador was effectively over. The depth of the opprobrium Kim had heaped on Trump effectively made his position untenable, and it would have been pure folly for Boris Johnson to unconditionally support Kim.

IF we could read the comments of every Diplomate about the country he/she serves in?
Remember before you condemn this man, only those with a need to know should have read this
Too it seems more than likely Brexit had a roll in this, too we may be close to uncovering the leaker
And those best served by the leak
Trump, this mornings leak reports, killed the agreement with Iran, *to spite Obama*
We desperately need to hear views other than the ones Trump's lap dogs give us about this deeply disturbed man

Once upon a time, in a land long long gone, there was a reason for ambassadors. In fact in the days when it took 6 months minimum to get a message from the UK to Oz they were very important people. Even as recently as 50 years ago, when it was impossible to get a message privately around the world by radio, they still had a function.

Now private conversations between leaders are possible, & occur regularly, they are merely expensive ceremonial stuffed shirts, with no useful function to full fill.

The whole diplomatic service is merely an expensive acronym, without which we could do quite well. A few clerks to shuffle the paperwork would be much less expensive, & more efficient to boot. Their only use is as a place to kick upstairs, the less useful of the politicians & bureaucrats, who would be better for us, home tending the roses.

A British columnist has written that Darroch's criticism of Donald Trump ignores his communicative genius. The dopey diplomat isn't up with the "really remarkable" fact that a 73 year old man is a master of all forms of social media which did not exist until his 6th and 7th decades of life. A Trump tweet can as decisive an expression of power as Roman emperor's thumbs-down in a gladiatorial arena.

At some future time, after Trump is unmasked as the fraud and fool he is rereading our comments will be telling
Here a man who has befriended his country's enemies, and insulted its friends has followers who if asked ,could not give a rational reason they like him
It has always been so with con men, actually putting their wants and wishes on him even if he never shares them
Here a British Diplomat, well respected, has had his emails released, just as Clintons appeared mid election
Whoever released them and for what reason, will be highlighted soon

Hasbeen. One important function of an ambassador remains, to head an embassy. This provides a valuable foothold in a foreign country, with protection from the law of the country: to spy, murder people, provide an escape route for refugees, etc. (There are still some things you can't easily do over the internet or by smartphone.) Can you imagine any country giving up these opportunities? Those expensive stuffed shirts are a useful front for such activities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_mission
Contrary to popular belief, most diplomatic missions do not enjoy full extraterritorial status and – in those cases – are not sovereign territory of the represented state. Rather, the premises of diplomatic missions usually remain under the jurisdiction of the host state while being afforded special privileges (such as immunity from most local laws) by the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. Diplomats themselves still retain full diplomatic immunity, and (as an adherent to the Vienna Convention) the host country may not enter the premises of the mission without permission of the represented country, even to put out a fire. International rules designate an attack on an embassy as an attack on the country it represents.[citation needed] The term "extraterritoriality" is often applied to diplomatic missions, but normally only in this broader sense.

As the host country may not enter the representing country's embassy without permission, embassies are sometimes used by refugees escaping from either the host country or a third country. For example, North Korean nationals, who would be arrested and deported from China upon discovery, have sought sanctuary at various third-country embassies in China. Once inside the embassy, diplomatic channels can be used to solve the issue and send the refugees to another country.

"One important function of an ambassador remains, to head an embassy. This provides a valuable foothold in a foreign country, with protection from the law of the country: to spy, murder people, provide an escape route for refugees, etc."

You forgot 'to conduct business' - i.e the theft of that countries natural resources', and to gain the use of unchecked diplomatic containers.

That's why in the U.S. you pay the man a million bucks or so and you get to be the ambassador of whatever country you're trying to rape, pillage and do covert stuff in.

USA! USA!

Can we then expect a flood of American refugees in our Washington Embassy?
The man did nothing wrong, if he did then millions world wide who think ever worse of the GingerBread man would be in real trouble
Ginger has moved on, insulting women of color trying to bring the redneck vote back to him

Belly,

The upcoming election in the US is with the background of 3.7% unemployment, 3.2% GDP growth rate, 1.6% inflation, and record stock market values, all metrics that the rest of the world can only dream of.

The problem that the Democrats in the US have is that the 4 congresswomen that Trump is targetting are commonly known as "the squad" are far left politicians well known for their outlandish and often extremely racist (anti semetic) statements for which the majority of the Democrats are desperately trying to distance themselves. Their appeal was at best for inner city greenies, and are electoral poison for the majority of the US. Trumps attacks are forcing the "moderate" democrats to side with these bombastic show ponies which I guess is done through gritted teeth.

The last election was not won by Trump, but lost by the Democrats flirtation with identity politics etc. If Trump can paint them with the same brush again..........

Shadow Minister yes indeed true
Have You considered the regulatory cuts that enabled the growth
The Damning list of cuts to just about anything to stop industry being monitored
And You draw a long bow in claiming, or are you
Things will be this good at the elections late next year
Is America's Trade deficit important enough to murder world trade agreements
Can they flourish in a world wide recession?
I have doubts

Belly,

I don't say that I agree with what Trump does especially as what he does is usually to benefit himself.

Looking at this more like a chess game Trump made a move and provoked exactly the response he wanted, from getting the moderates to associate with the looney left, to the toothless censure motion in congress that made it look like the Democrats were using congress to further their own aims rather than pass meaningful legislation.

As for the trade war with China, China's abuse of the WTO regulations has long merited a showdown of sorts.

Its been suggested that Darroch was suspected of leaking confidential US data to the press. If so, it explains why the US took the opportunity to force the UK to remove him.

And the Sky is falling mhaze
Russian Troll like but amusing