Japan has resumed commercial whaling and there has been a predictable response but is this response based on emotion and the idea that whales are somehow more intelligent than other mammals?

Is Mise,

I am inclined to say good luck to them. I cannot see why whaling can't be carried out in the same way commercial fishing is, with checks and balances. I don't really understand what the objections are.

Japan's exit from the International Whaling
Commission (IWC) highlights the need for the
international community to overcome disagreements.
Whaling is only one example of the many urgent
and complex environmental issues that demand a
global response. How well we all work together
will determine more than just the fate of the
world's whales.

Japan has now caught its first whale in its
waters since resuming commercial whaling after
a global ban came into effect.

While whaling has been part of Japanese culture for
hundreds of years, modern demand for whale meat
is extremely low. Whale makes up about 0.1% of
all meat eaten in Japan in a year. Whether Japan's
appetite for whale meat being so low
will reduce its whaling
efforts remains to be seen.

Like all living things, whales occupy a role in the food
chain and contribute to the balance of the marine
eco-system therefore their preservation is important.

Japan by it actions in leaving the world body is not looking good
It ,this time, is at least hunting in its own waters, whales numbers have grown , and needed to
But we are told by other Japanese that country no longer eats whale meat like it once did
If they kill any endangered whales it will be time for me to get upset

Dear Is Mise,

Interesting question so I'm going to act on the assumption it was not loaded even if it probably was.

There are a couple of parts to it.

Firstly is the assumption that whales are more intelligent that other animals. Well the science seems to indicate it is a real possibility;

"Whale and dolphin brains contain specialized brain cells called spindle neurons. These are associated with advanced abilities such as recognising, remembering, reasoning, communicating, perceiving, adapting to change, problem-solving and understanding. So it seems they are deep thinkers! Not only that, but the part of their brain which processes emotions (limbic system) appears to be more complex than our own."
http://us.whales.org/whales-dolphins/how-intelligent-are-whales-and-dolphins/

The second is whether that emotion should have us refrain from killing them for meat.

They aren't reared for that purpose like cows or sheep. They are an animal in the wild. Perhaps a little less understood though being aquatic.

So the best land based animal we can associate them with is probably the elephant. It also has a long gestation and rearing periods and shows remarkable intelligence.

We do not go out and slaughter them for elephant steaks at our fine restaurants. We can understand an African living a largely tribal life killing one to feed his small community just as we can understand an eskimo doing the same. But as advanced societies we do not wholesale hunt and farm elephants for their meat. Ivory is another story of course but not for this discussion.

Japan would have us regard it as an advanced society whose people are not dependent of whale nor elephant meat to survive.

That is why this act by them is so perverse and should be condemned.

Just for a little light relief this is Sasha Baron Cohen taking down food critic Bill Jilla in one of his episodes. It has some relevance though admittedly a little oblique.
http://youtu.be/YEb8yJWI_X4?t=22

don't like the idea of killing whales unless for food however killing the unborn babies is criminal.

"killing the unborn babies is criminal".

Why? It's OK to kill unborn human babies. The anti-whalers are the sort who would be the first to tell you that.

The Japanese are hypocrites on this, where is the so called scientific research the clowns went on about for years. There is no human need that requires the killing of whales, full stop. Its more about Japan acting politically to tell the rest of the world "you wont tell us what to do." There is hundreds of tonnes of processed whale meat sitting unsold, due to very low demand, in commercial freezers in Japan, young Japanese in particular will not eat whale meat. So what are they doing it for?

runner, the uninitiated might think by reading your comment that you are against abortion because we don't eat them. if we did would it make a difference?

ttbn, you know very well I don't support 'abortion on demand'. Its unfair to try and link anti-whaling to pro abortion. Would you say the same about those that kill sheep and cattle etc.
BTW, your great white hope, Corny Banana deregistered the Australian Conservative Party, and you thought it would be the salvation of Australia. Yep the one you claimed to be a member of, did they give you a refund?

Well it did not take long, read the last two posts
Like SR thought this thread maybe be loaded
But gave an honest answer
YES I would like to see us stop killing whales
But as a beach fisherman have killed about 30 Jewfish, hundreds of Tailor, Bream, Mullet, and Lizards
Eaten every one
They are fishing in their own waters, and do we have the right to tell them they can not?
IF no one kills whales, will a day come when their population will outgrow their food supply

Hi Belly, I would say this move is more political than wanting to feed some whale starved Japanese. Issy will be familiar with his mate The Shooters and Hooters MP Bob Ballsup, who trek'd off to Africa to shoot an elephant. Ballsup then claimed he ate the elephant, feeling peckish no doubt, all two tons of him, what he didn't eat on the spot, he took home in his Esky for sangers later! This is the mentality of these guys.

Paul,

Can't help it can you, like runner you have to push your trolley at every opportunity.

Steele,

It's a genuine question, I think that the whales should be left alone, no one needs to eat them and whale oil long ago became redundant with the widespread use of electricity.

I do wonder though at their supposed level of intelligence.

Paul yes aware they no longer eat any thing like they once did when it comes to whales
And yes Japan is moving in a different direction, no longer anti war
Its leader wants some glory even if it is mixed with blood

The Japanese plan on catching three types of whales:

1. Minke - world-wide population at least 1,000,000. Japan plans on taking about 100 p.a.

2. Bryde's whale - population about 100,000. Japan plans on taking about 500 p.a.

3. Sei whale -population about 100,000. Japan plans on taking about 50 p.a.

This isn't about protecting the whale population, its about virtue signalling to the snowflakes in the west.

Japan has a different view on the whales than we do. Why are we trying to impose our view on them? Cultural appropriation and all that? We are all so tolerant except to those who engage in wrong-think.

Its commercial whaling. If, as the virtual signallers assert, there is no market for whale meat, then those doing the whaling will loose money and stop it.

Whales, dolphins et al have nice little turned up mouths as though they are smiling. Oh how cute. How could anyone eat them. That's the level of 'thought' here.

_____________________________________________________________

On a total unrelated subject I had a veal for dinner last night. And my dog had a tin of food based on kangaroo meat.

Thanks mhaze for the numbers
You will be confronted to find me on your side
But you highlight very little damage will be done while the numbers and place they catch them remains
A true Conservationist I am aware some campaigns do more harm than good
See Joe and Jane average, once told the figures, will regard other campaigns as not worth supporting
After all, if they come for my fishing rods they will need guns
Patches beach and airport beach here I come, soon

Dear mhaze,

Yuo write;

“Japan has a different view on the whales than we do. Why are we trying to impose our view on them? Cultural appropriation and all that? We are all so tolerant except to those who engage in wrong-think.”

Cultural? Rubbish.

That is because of a singular event, WW2. Whaling in japan had faded about as much as it had in the US, England and even Australia. But given the severe protein shortages brought on by the war whale meat became a primary source and was included in the school lunches on many of the nation's children. The differences in demographics regarding whale meat consumption is almost fully explain by the nostalgia factor of the war children. Once this demographic really starts to thin then consumption is likely to decline much faster.

If you want to try and make the point that war period consumption created a cultural aspect then you are on very thin ice. There are groups within Japan which are furiously virtue signalling the nationalistic benefits of thumbing their noses at the world community through the resumption of whaling. This will just gee up another bunch of hard right wingers.

And what happens when the huge Chinese factory ships turn their attention to whales? Why? Because the Japanese are doing it. Then see the numbers crash.

SR,

Please, you're killing me. What a nong.

"That is because of a singular event, WW2. Whaling in japan had faded about as much as it had in the US, England and even Australia."

Its so silly, so a-historic that I really can't bring myself to point out just how ludicrous you're assertions are. I'll let others do it...

http://dickrussell.org/2006/06/27/the-truth-about-traditional-japanese-whaling/

Struth what a dill.
Is it really so hard to just go and do 30 minutes research before shoving your foot in your mouth.

The only good thing here is we'll get another episode of SR's gymnastics as he tries to prove that black is white

Dear mhaze,

You really are a goose aren't you.

You have just posted a link to something which completely supports my argument.

You: “Japan has a different view on the whales than we do. Why are we trying to impose our view on them? Cultural appropriation and all that? We are all so tolerant except to those who engage in wrong-think.”

Me: “Cultural? Rubbish!"

Article: “There were a few isolated Japanese villages that had killed whales in the past, but Japan as a whole demonstrated very little interest in whaling until a man named Jura Oka made his way to Norway, the Azores and Newfoundland in the mid 1890’s to study whaling. He learned whaling and purchased the equipment from the Norwegians and modern whaling began in Japan in 1898.”

Me: “That is because of a singular event, WW2. Whaling in japan had faded about as much as it had in the US, England and even Australia.”

Article: “Luckily for the whales, humans turned to slaughtering each other in 1939 and this represented a 6 year reprieve from slaughter for the Cetacean nation.” and “The war was the most significant conservation measure to stop the slaughter. One third of all whaling ships were destroyed in the conflict.”

Me: “But given the severe protein shortages brought on by the war whale meat became a primary source and was included in the school lunches on many of the nation's children. The differences in demographics regarding whale meat consumption is almost fully explain by the nostalgia factor of the war children.”

Another article: “As the country built up its devastated economy, the American occupation authority encouraged the use of whale as a cheap source of protein. The meat found its way into lunches at schools across the nation, a practice that ended in 1987. “
http://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/indepth/japan-resumes-commercial-whaling-but-is-there-an-appetite-for-it/ar-AADIBod

You really aren't very good at this are you.

Steele,

Admirable restraint there.

//I think that the whales should be left alone, no one needs to eat them and whale oil long ago became redundant with the widespread use of electricity//.

Thumbs up Issy, I didn't know you had the greenie within, good to see.

Interesting according to the wife, in her cultural mythology whales and dolphins are seen as the carriers of the spirits of the ancestors on their long trip back to their ancestral home of Hawaiki (not to be confused with Hawaii). If theses creatures entered into the Bay of Islands it was seen as a good sign. On the occasions when they washed up on shore, it was a bad sign. She got all excited recently when we seen a pod of dolphins in Morton Bay. She claims few Maori would work on whaling ships back in the day. Although her ancestor Hongi Hika was not adverse to applying a 5 pound anchorage fee on whaling ships, at its peak up to 60 or more ships at a time, the money was used to buy muskets to engage in the Musket Wars with other Maori. HH was always the businessman.

Oh dear.

SR asserts that Japan's cultural affinity with whaling only started post-WW2.

I show him evidence that it goes back way beyond that with a brief hiatus during WW2 (big surprise there, eh?).

Incredibly SR thinks that evidence supports his view.

Oh dear.

Paul,

"Thumbs up Issy, I didn't know you had the greenie within, good to see"

You forget that I was at Middle Head beach and was a supporter of Ian Cohen, the last and only Greens MP in the NSW Parliament.

I was in charge of the camp hygiene (and wood supplies for the Rainbow Cafe's kitchen), as such I earned the soubriquet of "Camp Commandant" and praise from the local Council Health Inspector when the Northern Star newspaper tried to stir up trouble about the hygiene in the hippies'/protesters' camp.

Overall, it's great to see the Japanese putting it right up the Green fruitcakes. There's a lot to like about the Japanese: reliable cars, almost nil immigration, no multiculturalism, no SSM, no gender-bending or perversion, good manners and pride in their culture - and they politely ignore busybodies and get on with things.

Dear mhaze,

Oh dear indeed.

You: “SR asserts that Japan's cultural affinity with whaling only started post-WW2.”

Well no, I question whether there is a cultural affinity at all.

Once again I refer to your excellent article.

“Japanese defenders of whaling have actually accused whale defenders of being racists for opposing the killing of whales. The opposition of the killing of anything cannot be dismissed as racist. There is no racial or cultural justification for slaughter. None. Especially for a practise that is not, and has never been a tradition.”

Me: “There are groups within Japan which are furiously virtue signalling the nationalistic benefits of thumbing their noses at the world community through the resumption of whaling. This will just gee up another bunch of hard right wingers.”

Your article: “Today Japan is leading an effort to slaughter more and more whales. Japanese whaling industry spokesman Joji Morishita has publicly stated that whaling is not about the money but about pride. Morishita vows that Japan will never surrender to the anti-whaling views of non-Japanese.”

It goes on to make this very good point

“Less than 1% of the Japanese people participated in whaling as consumers until 1908 and less than 10% participated as consumers until 1930. Today only a small percentage of Japanese people eat whale meat.”

This was far more about profiteering from a resource;

“Japan sent its first ships to Antarctica in 1935. The sale of whale oil helped to finance the invasion of Manchuria and China.”

Japan has refused to apologise for much of its barbarity during the war, and continues to honour war criminals, this is just a continuation of that mindset. I repeat the earlier point “whaling is not about the money but about pride. Morishita vows that Japan will never surrender to the anti-whaling views of non-Japanese.”

I note that Hasbeen is in lockstep with what is essentially celebrating Japanese militarism and ethos.

Anyway thank you for bringing us this well written, superbly argued, and very welcome article to me attention. I have posted it through my lists.

Steele,

Hasbeen hasn't posted in this thread.

Dear Is Mise,

Perfectly correct. I apologise unreservedly to Hasbeen. My fault entirely.

I'm surprised that the leftist virtue signallers haven't been yelling 'racist' at anyone objecting to Japan's whaling. It must put them in quite a bind to have to choose between Asiatics and animals

But what of the whales supposed intelligence?

Can they not work out that whaling ships, indeed any ships, are a danger to them?

ise mise like a bet?willing to lay odds whales have more brains than one poster
rude? yes any more rude than the person targeted?
Such needless insults are bound to bring return serves

I don't think whales have that sort of intelligence, Is Mise, or they would have been using it.

Overall, there is too much fuss about whales and animals in general. Most of the world's population have never seen a whale, and never will - so whales will be of little interest to them.

Animals are subordinate to people, and if they can't be eaten, they are not much use, unless they are are pulling plough's or rolling logs in undeveloped countries.

On the matter of intelligence, who do you think is the most intelligent in the case of whales beaching themselves: the whales or the people who make a big deal of pushing them back to sea, even when the whales insist on re-beaching themselves?

ttbn,

I'd put them on a par, intelligent people would humanely kill beached whales and harvest the windfall.