"Anyone remember statesmen?
Obama was one."

Now 1 know you have lost it Belly. Careful old mate, too many statements like that, & they'll send the men in white coats around to pick you up.

Not-now-soon interesting, and quite true, even if it hurts
Not one of us can claim to have never got it wrong, in fact we do get it wrong often
We may wish to avoid it, put on the public face we use to hide behind, but we still understand we got it wrong
Nothing ventured nothing gained, so here I go again,walking on thin verbal ice
See truly, honestly, even earnestly, think Donald Trump is a very real danger to America
And that in a country powered by blind jingoism and showmanship, he is not even near honest enough to be in the white house, other than as a visitor in a tour group, and then closely guarded
Obama, REMEMBER his second term saw both houses held by his opponents, he could do little
REMEMBER the sheer joy the world felt when he won
Now, right now, we in the free world NEED an American leader who is not used by Russia China [our enemy in a coming ww3] or the little fat fool in that slave nation North Korea

http://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/white-house-inept-incompetent-says-uk-ambassador-in-embarrassing-trove-of-leaked-memos-20190707-p524x2.html
Even Trumps bigest fan should read this
To have a man who serves British foriegn interests hold such a view of the man is telling

I disagree, Belly.

What we need are governments that work together. A house divided into camps that try to play power games instead of help the people they represent are the stain of society. Having a president that doesn't fit that mold has it's own refreshing sentiment to it. But it doesn't change the matter that the parties at play are intreasted in working against eachother and dividing the country against the other parties. More interested in that then in helping run the government smoothly, working together for the common goal of the people, or even to represent their people at all instead of representing the party they define (regardless how the people who voted them in feel about all the party platforms).

Regarding Trump and Obama. Let's go back one more. I remember Bush Jr in office. Rarely was there anything in the media that supported him. To much attention on how he pronounced things and little about the policies unless they were critisms. Then Obama came. As far as the media was concerned the president that could do no wrong. There was only praise to him. And with only praise that raises a bit of a red flag. Expecially sines just as little was given attention to his actions and policies (aside from the healthcare reform). Now Trump is in office, and the media is again in a frenzy. It's a great tornado of a frenzy. Trump can do nothing right. Absolutely nothing. Such a lack of good actions in the main media is a red flag just as much as there was nothing said wrong with Obama.

I'm watching it all, and I'm telling you. Something is off, so don't trust the media. Pay attention to the things that matter, policies, legislations, foreign affairs.

If the leader of a country is one that can do no wrong, or can do no right, then then look to other media sources to see if the rest of the story can be found. Because if they have no critism, or only critism then there is something your not being told.

Not-now-soon every post in this thread made by me is my view period end
Fact is you ask for government by SAINTS how dowe find them?
We have had statesmen here, Menzies they say was one Hawke and Whitlam belong in that group,without the internal knifing Rudd would have been
Howard was
We live in a system that is decaying around the edges
But voter apathy can take most of the blame

Dear Not_Now.Soon,

Obama got an easy ride? My goodness what a short memory you must have. The whole birther movement was extraordinary and some of the most influencial pundits were running with it.

Obama also got a lot of stick from the 'left' for his drone program particularly targeting US citizens.

The reason why Trump cops so much is because he is a disgusting human being full stop. One of his best mates is finally facing charges for procuring underaged girls.

This is what Trump said of him;

“I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.”

Hells bells.

The fawning of many of those on this forum for Trump is disturbing but understandable as there is a real thirst for an authoritarian figure among them.

I would be ashamed to have a person like him as the leader of my country. A crass, bullying, sexual abusing, blowhard, thick, corrupt, nepotistic, prostitute procuring scumbag.