Islam remains as one of the significant religions of the world and may potentially be the real religion of the world. Like Christianity and Buddhism, it is a universal social structure that is vitally established in the way of life of a solitary people, the Arabs. In contrast to Christianity and Buddhism, be that as it may, Islam has kept up solid social roots in its Arabic inceptions even down to the language of its establishment. While no Christian alive knows a solitary expression of Christ's lessons in the Aramaic or Hebrew that Christ talked, and just a couple of Buddhists can move effectively inside the Pali that Siddhartha talked, about each Muslim from Muhammad to the present day starts and finishes every day with the authoritative rhythms of the Arabic words verbally expressed by Muhammad as disclosure.
ke either the New Testament or the lessons of Buddha, completely legitimate and subject to no inquiries since its redaction just two or three decades after the demise of Muhammad. The Christian New Testament, conversely, coursed in various and opposing arrangements with the goal that the present rendition is very suspect and as often as possible discordant; the different schools of Buddhism are regularly at loggerheads over the authenticity of different lessons—these contested lessons at times structure the center of discrete developments. Notwithstanding language and content, at the core of Islam is the Arabic vision of the world and society. Systematized just several hundred years after the establishment of Islam, the Shari'ah, or law of Islam introduced for all time the Arabic request of society on ensuing ages.

https://islam365.org/

Looks like Islam 101, carefully copied out, without a single reference to the poster's subject matter.

huh?

Sorry. More like a copy and paste job. But what's it got to with women's (plural) right (just the one)? With Mr. Opinion on another thread, and Veronica here, its looking like The Invasion of The Zombie this morning.

starts and finishes every day with the authoritative rhythms of the Arabic words verbally expressed by Muhammad
Veronica Mills,
Well, those who dare not to aren't around for too long !

Veronica,

Thank You for your detailed introduction to
Islamic practices - however you did not mention
anything about the issues involved in the
title you gave this
discussion which was - "Women's right in Islam."
It would have helped to have mentioned your thoughts
on that issue. Perhaps it's still to come?

I look forward to hearing more from you.

All faiths pursue a God that never existed
In way different than a tribal witch doctor self interest drives them
A good follower of a good faith is a far better person than many
Islam, as is my right to say, is not a good faith, but it has truly great people
Unfortunately very big number of very bad, very uneducated followers
BE AWARE this thread may be placed here to let us say things the site can be sued for
Islam enslaved women and is in that way not truly a faith for women who want to be free

Why the silence? are we seeing posts from overseas that may or may not want to stir us up
As far as women's rights as said they have none in Islam
Maybe tonight we will see answers but do not think you can put faith in what may or may not be a woman, telling us slavery is good for females

feminism/secularism like Islam lead to slavery for women.

Just to kick this discussion off - Barbara
Carland has written a great book - "Fighting
Hislam,"which is worth a mention for those
interested in the subject. She wrote an
article in The Guardian - "Ïf you want to
know about Muslim women's rights ask
Muslim women." It's worth a read:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/07/if-you-want-to-know-about-muslim-womens-rights-ask-muslim-women

cont'd ...

My apologies. I meant to say - Susan Carland,
not Barbara. My mistake.

"Notwithstanding language and content, at the core of Islam is the Arabic vision of the world and society."

No Thanks.
What makes you think I want ANY stoneage Abrahamic religion imposed upon me?
And how does it work?
What are you just going to wait till you have numbers and then impose it upon the rest of us?

Oh yeah that's right;
Mecca and Medina phases.
'Make treaties when you are weak, until you are powerful enough to disregard them'.
Probably similar to when Erdogan and others said "Democracy is like a bus, you get off when you reach your destination".

"Islam remains as one of the significant religions of the world and may potentially be the real religion of the world"

Just keep on telling that to your butchered and mutilated privates Veronica and I'm sure everything will be just honky-dory for you.
- But I think some of the other more-level-headed / non-brainwashed women might disagree...

Also you need to convince is of why Islam is so great ON ITS OWN MERITS;
Not try to argue that Islam is 'merely better' because of faults you find in the others.
I could find heaps of faults with Islam too.

I think society needs to rise above this all stoneage crap, which has arguably reached it's 'use-by' date, and simply focus on ethics and merit.

With ethics and merit one can discern the positive and negative aspects associated with ANY religion or belief system.

I am feeling I should not have posted anything in this thread
Believe it or not I understand my view on religion is harming some hurting others, confronting many
I as said here,even know true good followers of ANY God are good people
But speaking about no God is unliked by many
However is my right
We are free to HIGHLIGHT the Catholic Church, not the only one, just the biggest, has housed pedophil preists for cenurarys
But nameing the Koran, telling us its God wed a seven year old?
IF WE worshiped no God, never ever again had to hear or see followers tell us how to live? what a great world that would be

Foxy,

Thanks for the link showing how women are striving for their rights, however, what is missing from the article is any sign of progress. It can be easily argued that women's rights under Islam have gone backwards a long way over the past 5 decades.

Articles from the 70s in Iran, Afghanistan and many Islamic nations show a degree of freedom that has largely disappeared, and even in what was previously a secular Turkey elements of the oppressive Sharia Law are being implemented.

From what I can see the light at the end of the tunnel is receding

That would be the right to be bashed up, regularly, wouldn't it?

SM,

I gave Susan Carland's book to show that there are
women attempting to make changes within their
own communities. I guess the more we learn the
better informed we'll be. Although the media is
against us printing only what's newsworthy - which
influences many people's perceptions, unfortunately.
Probably, including my own.

Looks like the person with the moniker veronica is not coming back to fill in the enormous gap in her post.

Have given some thought to our author, we have always had international visitors
And while it's my view SOME question every new visitor, this one maybe more than just a fly by night
May even be Male, on a mission
Let's face it we are open to being heated when such subjects arise
Foxy, you will know I constantly fight the view all Muslims are in any way a threat
Hope you are well, hope I did not see something else in your post
A white ribbon pledge taker I consider it a duty to stand up for women, always
But can not truthfully ever say Islam shares my view,even the best in that faith by default,put women second
Again One day, I truly hope, humanity will truly debate the truth even source, of God fables and are they in the end more negative than good
EG American Church abusing dead soldiers families at funerals

"EG American Church abusing dead soldiers families at funerals"

I think the soldiers and their families definitely deserve some anti-war pushback.
The US is out of control with its foreign policies, foreign engagements and warmongering petrodollar economy.
They are too proud of the murder and mayhem they inflict upon others.

They should focus on opposing the wars instead of disparaging the soldiers though, but I do think the soldiers derserve a little bit of scrutiny.

There's a difference between defending your country and being a part of something that attacks others.

Disparaging fallen soldiers at their funerals is one way to send a message loud and clear, but protesting at anyone's funeral is unconscionable and not in good taste.

- That said, the US government and it's allies like to BOMB funerals -

We should keep that in mind.

(I'm not sure the issues I raised however are what motivates Westboro)
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/03/21/westboro-baptist-church-pickets-funerals/6688951/

Dear Belly,

I mentioned the book by Susan Carland to kick start
this discussion. I've been watching programs on
television where Muslim women were discussing the
prejudices they felt against them in our communities.
I couldn't help thinking how would it feel if we
experienced that sort of thing? There are so many
wrong assumptions that are made about people we
don't really know by what we read in the media.
The media has a lot to answer.

Education, I guess is the key in abolishing bias.
Or at least trying to abolish it.
But sometimes it's easier said than done as we
know from our own experiences. I know what it was
like growing up in Western Sydney with a "foreign"
name and an unusual appearance (dark eyes, long
hair, and tall height).

Is Iftikhar using another name now ? A woman's name ? Brilliant ! That could work.

Foxy we are on different tracks here, yes guilty we once, even now, treat Islamic women badly, some of us
We can never get close to being as bad as say Pakistan treats its women
Saudi Arabia, a nation known to murder press journalists, has activist women, a shining light in a dark place
It also has women in prison even murdered, for not wanting to practice a faith
The African continent is too known for women being oppressed in the name of a God that seems designed to please men and enslave women

Dear Belly,

I guess we are on different tracks.

I'm talking about this country.
And the experiences of Muslim women
here.

Foxy,

I fervently hope that Muslim women in Australia receive the same protection of the law, and the same rights under the law particularly in relation to marriage and sharing of property, as all other women should have, and have as much right to freedom of expression as all other women should have.

I'm sure you would agree wholeheartedly ?

Joe

Dear Joe,

Of course I agree wholeheartedly.

Muslim women in Australia are treated by their husbands exactly as they would be treated in their homeland. In many Muslim countries where shariah law is enforced women are only equal to an animal.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-women-in-society/

Differences between those who want sharia to be the official law and those who do not are most pronounced when it comes to the role of wives. In 10 of the 23 countries where the question was asked, supporters of sharia as official law are more likely to say wives must always obey their husbands. Especially large gaps are found in Albania (+44 percentage points), Kosovo (+34), Bosnia-Herzegovina (+34) and Russia (+33).
Muslims who favour an official role for sharia also tend to be less supportive of granting specific rights to women. For instance, in six countries, those who want Islamic law as the official law are less likely to say women should have the right to divorce, including in Russia (-34 percentage points), Morocco (-19) and Albania (-19). However, the opposite is true in Bangladesh (+13) and Jordan (+12).
Additionally, in seven countries, supporters of sharia as the official law of the land are less likely to say sons and daughters should receive equal inheritance. And in five countries, those who favour sharia as the official law are less likely to believe a woman should have the right to decide whether to wear a veil in public.

Presented are excerpts from Azam Kamguian’s book, Islam & Women’s Rights. http://centerforinquiry.org/blog/islam-and-womens-rights/

Religion in general and Islam in particular are women’s enemy. Women’s inequality is god’s commandment, in Islam enshrined in immutable law by Mohammad and eventually recorded in scripture. In most countries under Islamic states or under the influence of Islam, Koran’s directives are incorporated into contemporary law.

Family law in these countries generally follows the prescriptions of Koran. Veiling (hijab), divorce laws, a very young legal age of marriage, custody of children, polygamy, women’s rightlessness in matters of employment, travelling, choosing the place of residence, honor killing are all aspects of Islamic Shari’a based on the Koran and Islam’s doctrine. Together with these, in countries under the Islamic states, women are stoned to death for engaging in voluntary sexual relations and are stripped of their basic human rights.

Good on you, Foxy :)

I could write about women is American Christian cults [name Churches that are cults]
But answered our absent author here
I can not hide even here in our progressive country some, far too many, treat all women badly
And yes Foxy some Muslim women here are treated dreadfully,by us
Not in my view the threads direction, but if it has become so, let us not put the PC Blinkers over our ears and eyes
This is a western country and always will be
Tell me the BURKA is other than male control over a woman
Then tell me how long would I live if I arrived in SAUDI ARABIA wearing thongs and shorts and drinking a beer as I walked around

Dear Belly,

The vast majority of modern mainstream Christians,
Jews, and Muslims in our country are not
fundamentalists, because they are modern
people with normal family and social
relationships, and have an least partially rational views of how
the world works. They are not waiting for Armageddon, or a
future coming of a saviour. Nor are they waiting for anything else
that exercises the theological minds of fundamentalists.

We have to keep in mind that the religiously-minded modern
person is not a "card-carrying fundamentalist."
The latter are a tiny minority. Of whatever faith, a
psychologist would be likely to declare them of unsound mind.

however, unfortunately, to many Westerners. Islamic
fundamentalism seems like a scandalous return to a medieval
morality. It conjures forth images of women behind veils,
of adulterers being stoned, of thieves having their hands
cut off, of public floggings and executions, of martyrdom
in holy wars, and, in extreme cases, of political
fanaticism exemplified in aircraft hijackings and terrorist
bombings.

This is the picture we get in our media. It's based on
what's newsworthy and of course does influence us in our
perception of Muslims.

As I said previously, the best way to dispel these
perceptions is through education and actual contact with
people. The more we learn, perhaps our perceptions may
change.

I remember the many myths that existed about migrants
in this country. About the Maltese, the Poles, the Italians.
With time perceptions changed. Maybe things will change for
Muslims here as well. My GP is a Muslim. And she does not
wear a burka or look any different to anyone else. Also
my eye surgeon is also a Muslim. As are many of the staff
in the aged-care facility where I volunteer.

Anyway, for Muslim women are working towards making changes.
Hopefully (like Rose Batty in her work against domestic
violence) they too will be successful.

Foxy nothing has changed and never will, I have lost friends and ex workmates
Because I confront the pure stupidity that all Muslims are a threat
One, has stopped posting here, to avoid me
See he, truly, thinks Pauline Hanson is a hero, and that she should be, maybe even will be, Prime Minister
There are no definites, no single path we should all follow
Fundamentalists are in the wrong country as are those ignoring our law
Consider, are my words about my rights in most Islamic countries true?
Why then should we be any different
Yesterday a THUG again refused to stand in our court
He carved IS a slogan on the head of an ex service man
We can not ignore the nature of primitive hate being directed at us by the more primitive and backward side of Islam

Dear Belly,

It's not the religion, it's fundamentalist's
interpretation of their religion be it Jewish,
Muslim, Christian, et cetera. If we look we
can find faults in each. Islam just happens to
be the flavour of the month at the moment.
Predominantly because of military conflicts in
their areas.

Foxy you are totally naïve, Why has there been conflicts in Islamic countries? It is the enforcement by Mufti leaders of Shariah; which equals in their mind the laws of Allah. The only overcoming of Islam is to risk becoming an apostate of the religion. Those so called Moderates risk the same fate as infidels under shariah. Death is the only atonement for violating Allah's laws under shariah.

The so called "fundamentalists" are, actually, the only Muslims who are interpreting the Koran in the way it is written. Anyone who says differently is an ignoramus who has never opened the Koran.

It's difficult to make sweeping generalisations
about a religion most of us actually know
so little about or what fundamentalists do or
do not believe. There are many variants of the
Koran and many changes have been made. And has
been used for political aims and manipulations.

My opinion is that only fundamentalists would
interpret their holy books literally. As for
example with the Bible. It was written thousands
of years ago and the Old Testament's text precedes
that. We know that the texts have been edited
numerous times and changed and its literal belief
would not make sense.

Of course religious leaders call it the Word of God.
Yet, we know in fact that it was written by men.
So whichever way people choose to interpret it
(or not) it will never be accurate or the truth.
But it is a guide to people of faith.

Joe,
You wrote, "I fervently hope that Muslim women in Australia receive the same protection of the law, and the same rights under the law particularly in relation to marriage and sharing of property, as all other women should have, and have as much right to freedom of expression as all other women should have.

I'm sure you would agree wholeheartedly ?"

Foxy agreed with you and you are both wrong.

The parents and others charged with FGM offences have been muslim and have only receive 'home detention' as penalty. We have only prosecuted a few and most states do not even do that, it is ignored by our authorities and judicory. Yet little girls suffer.

The act of taking under age girls in marriage is also rarely made accountable. There is a medical practicioner who runs a practice in western Sydney who told the media that she could find 100 under age marriages at any given time, yet our government does not seem concerned.

Yes these groups are treated differently by our law makers and enforcers, they get off very lightly for any offences.

You can liken it to the way aboriginal offenders get off lightly in relation to child sex offences. Refugees also seem to get favoured sentences for offences.

It is a fallacy to think that all are treated equally under the law

Henry,

I didn't assume that Muslim women DID receive "the same protection of the law, and the same rights under the law particularly in relation to marriage and sharing of property, as all other women should have, and have as much right to freedom of expression as all other women should have. "

I meant that I fervently hope that they would, should, could, might in the future. I'm not so naive as to think for a moment that they currently do. Thanks anyway :)

Joe

Henry,

We all know that the law is not equal.
People get off lightly for a variety of
reasons. It depends on each case and the
circumstances involved. Perhaps that's
why justice wears a blindfold? But as Joe
pointed out - we can only trust and hope
that the rule of law will prevail in a
modern country like ours. Knowing full
well it doesn't always.

HenryL,

Good job of correcting naivety and ignorance. Abuses are afflicted on young girls by Muslim parents, and Australian so-called authorities are unable, or too gutless, to do anything about it - even if they know it's happening. Multiculturalism cleary means multi-law fare to the gutless wonders who couldn't keep us free from Islam. What would land all other cultures in jail, doesn't affect Muslims.

And, of course, apologists for Islam shamelessly and discracefully look the other way. They are more comfortable with yapping about the evils of white males and lies from the #metooers than they are about innocent kids with parents adhering to a vile, creepy religion.

Yes genital mutilation is vile and is illegal
in this country. Yet, it still goes on.
But lets look at the bigger picture of our
society and communities, before we start pointing
fingers at just any one group.

Surveys suggest that each year hundreds of
couples go through a violent episode in which
one spouse tries to cause the other serious pain
or injury. Wives assault husbands as often as
husbands assault their wives, and spouses are
equally likely to kill each other.

Although wives are rarely a match for their
husbands in a fistfight, they are more likely to
use lethal weapons (notably kitchen knives).
In most nonfatal physical violence between the
spouses, however, wives are very much the victims.
Wife-beating is a widespread and very serious
problem in this country.

Also, each year, children wield weapons against a
brother or sister, and parents kick, punch, bite
or batter their children.

Child abuse - involving acts like - burning children
with cigarettes, locking them up in closets or sheds,
tying them up for hours or days, and breaking their bones -
is alarmingly common and probably causes many of the
hundreds of runaways that happen each year.

Then there's the sexual abuse of children. Now
recognised as a national epidemic. It is rarely a matter
of molestation by a stranger. It is usually perpetrated
by one family member or friend on another.

All these crimes of violence need our attention as well.

Joe,
You want to talk about Australia and muslim women?

In the last year of the Howard government, in response to complaints, the Feds authorized a report by the Victorian Muslim Womens Association into the conduct of some muslim men.

The report was done and presented to the government shortly after the Rudd government was elected. It stated that some muslim men after being divorced were presenting themselves at the homes of their former wives and demanding sex, claiming under muslim law, they were still married. As you know a muslim woman is to obey her husband.

This report made headlines for one day and was never heard of again and the Vic womens website was shut down for a long time. The report itself was pigeon holed and never tabled in the House so, in effect, it does not exist.

As you are, no doubt, aware such action by men after divorce would be rape in our law and of course there was no investigation.

I have little doubt that this practice still occurs as nothing has changed and there is no reason to doubt the printed word of the Victorian women. It would be the biggest scsndal ever if it happened to non muslim women.

This shows just how Muslim women are treated here by their own group. Best shut up and not talk about it.

But why should I care as they are only muslims and get what they deserve for being silly enough to be muslim

Dear Henry,

I assume you're speaking tongue-in-cheek.

You wouldn't say the same thing about other religions.
Like Catholics
being abused by Catholic priests.
That they're silly for being Catholics?
Or Christians in general, abusing other Christians?
Or Jews, et cetera.

Violence is wrong no matter who does it.

Henry,

Yes, I agree, how the rights of Muslim women in Australia are ignored, is truly appalling. I don't expect that all that many feminists will bother about it, since all cultures are equal in their universe, with 'other' cultural practices being so quaint and charming, and therefore any criticism of the behaviour of Muslim men is obviously Islamophobic.

I'm sure that not all Muslim men behave in deplorable ways, not by any means, but a cursory run-through of the Koran suggests that much deplorable (in our view) behaviour is urged on all Muslims. Luckily, many Muslim men are not particularly observant, probably no more than amongst other religious populations, and many Muslim men may actually be deeply in love with their spouses. They may actually support the rights available to Muslim women under formal Australian law (if not, as you point out, actual practice).

So apart from a few supportive husbands, Muslim women may be on their own when it comes to exerting their rights under Australian law. Their liberation will owe nothing to Australian feminists, their sisters, who have much more important things to complain about, such as the low attention given over to homosexual etc. issues. How on earth feminist and homosexual issues became so ridiculously entangled is beyond me, but I certainly wish Muslim women well in their long, lonely struggle.

Joe

Foxy,
Of course, you know I am a strong advocate of anti FGM. I cannot think of anything more offensive.

Henry,

There's people I know who think that male
circumcision is offensive. Yet for some
religions its par for the course, for
others it's health reasons. It's customary
practice in the US.

Foxy,

To compare male circumcision and female genital MUTILATION is inappropriate, to put it mildly: female mutilation cuts out the tissue which provides any sexual stimulation, quite deliberately, so that women cannot experience any pleasure at all - that's the point. Male circumcision has no such effect. They are not remotely comparable.

If anything (and of course it's impossible to know, since few grown men would have been both uncircumcised AND at some later point, circumcised) it's possible that circumcision enhances sexual pleasure. Clearly, the whole point of female mutilation is to remove any sexual desire or pleasure, and minimise the possibility that a woman might 'stray' (since, as we know, all women are basically sluts, according to backward perceptions). It's a form of imprisonment or even slavery, in that sense.

I'm surprised that you can - forgive me if I've misunderstood - seem to equate the two.

Joe

Foxy,
I mentioned FGM simply to illustrate my objection to abuse of females and I knew you are aware of my stance on FGM. I am aware that people other than Islam practice FGM and also of underage marriage.

The point is that I think we should be far more consistent with the way we apply our laws. For example, the states will not collect data from maternity and other hospitals because I think they are fearful of it showing how much FGM is actually occurring and they are reluctant to gather information on under age marriage. They do not wish to know these things.

While I was speaking with tongue-in-cheek when I said about it being muslim womens own fault, I do wonder at times how a muslim woman can remain muslim after seeing and experiencing the freedoms western women enjoy and how western women can feel a need to convert to Islam. I can see advantages for men but none for women.

Joe,

I actually wasn't comparing FGM with male
circumsicion. I was stating that I
knew people who objected to male circumsicion
as strongly as we object to FGM.
My apologies for not making that clearer
for you.

Of course FGM is a horrific practice causing
and may cause severe pain, bleeding, diffculty
in passing urine, infections, long term scars,
HIV infection, cysts, abscesses, genital ulcers
and other complications.

Reasons for having it done as cited in women's
surveys were - social acceptance, religion,
hygiene, preservation of virginity,
marriageability, and the enhancement of male
sexual pleasure.

UNICEF predicts that there's no reduction in the
practice and that the number sill grow (3.6
million in 2013) to 6.6 million in 2050.

Which is scary.

how a muslim woman can remain muslim
HenryL,
Surely you must have heard by now that if a Muslim leaves the religion their life is worth nothing !

We all tend to give evidence that supports our
We too protect some who do things we should highlight are wrong, because we do not always think the issue out
FGM is an evil forced on women by men, end!
It remains true while we ignore such truths we damage those victims
Muslims come here for a better life,and most of them are very welcome
Those Who Want to bring FGM and Sharia law with them, are not welcomed by a few Australians
Say 95 percent of us

Foxy loves to justify bad behaviour by Muslim men by comparing bad behaviour by men of other beliefs; so it does not look too bad after all because it is common place. The subject is the treatment of women in Islam!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA6jjumSM1s

I am wondering if veronica mills is in a Muslim relationship and her post is a cry for help; as she does not deal with the subject for fear of what her husband might do. If she is exposed to equal rights for women she might be questioning her relationship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pdqKetNpsM

'Foxy loves to justify bad behaviour by Muslim men by comparing bad behaviour by men of other beliefs; so it does not look too bad after all because it is common place'

certainly hides the very bad behaviour of many women (especially secular).

"The subject is the treatment of women in Islam!"

The instigator of the thread didn't think so. Apart from the title, she didn't mention the subject. Crazy.

Gentlemen,

Firstly,

kindly read what I'm actually saying.
Not what you think I said.

It might be worth noting that there are 1.6 billion
Muslims in the world. They come from different
cultures, speak different languages, and there
are 1.6 billion ways to be Muslim. People just may
be doing it differently.

The idea that Islam is practiced in exactly the
same way by all Muslims is a "lazy trope."
I tried to suggest with the Susan Carland reference,
that the best way to overcome this way of thinking
and for those interested in the subject was to
switch off the TV and newspaper headlines and
actually speak to Muslim women instead.

Also my aim and the examples I gave about violence
in our own societies was not meant as a defense
of what is done by Muslim fundamentalists. It was
meant to simply point out that instead of pointing
the finger at any one group - how about us cleaning up
our own backyard. We're not so perfect.

Yes, this discussion is about women in Islam. It was
raised by a Muslim. But the judgements being made by
some are not rational. And need to be challenged precisely
because of that.

Whilst I might agree with some of the comments on this topic, assuming we take the heading as the topic, because the comments have been vast and varied, and as many have pointed out, in some cases, have no relevance to the heading.
Never-the-less, following on from the lead of others, has anyone considered that what we, 'non-Muslims' believe or think, is not in question or even relevant.
I might suggest that this type of issue starts and will end from within the Muslim culture.
Nothing we, the infidels, say will EVER influence a 'true believer'.
So it is, I find the title and comments moot.
Only the Muslims can comment, or do anything about this problem.
We are merely observers.
What we say and think are of no use if, 'A' we can't do anything about it, as it appears that we can't even do anything about it in our own country and by our own laws and judiciary.
'B', influence the righting of these wrongs at the only level it can be achieved through, the 'Imams'? not sure of their correct title, I'm not Muslim, so I give it as much respect or thought as I do any other religion, which I am convinced they should all be known or referred to as 'cults'.
Until a 'real' God appears and communicates directly with us, his people, my pragmatism and objectivity are my best guide to these issues

Good point Foxy regarding the idea of talking to Muslim women on this instead of talking for them.

Also good point ALTRAV, that for the most part a non Muslim's view on Muslim at tears is an ignored view by those in Islam.

Regardless though, the issue for having rights in Islam is something I hope will be achieved someday by women that are either Muslim, or regardless of their religion live in Islamic countries.

Without the aid of our author we got to near 60 posts
I am most pleased to agree some Muslim women are having wins every day
And too look forward to a day they are indeed equals with their men, that however maybe a long way away
Worth noting a poll taken in the middle east says over 20 percent answered they are not followers of any religion [ABC National to day]
Reporting on a middle eastern polling group

I am most pleased to agree some Muslim women are having wins every day
Belly,
Mark my words, those wins are actually a double-edged sword in the making !

The authority on women's role in Islam is dictated by Imams, Clerics and lawyers of Sharia. Because many woman in Islam are not familiar with the edicts of Islam. These are enforced by her father, brothers and husband, she is merely owned by them.