The boat trade was awaiting labour again. A group from Sri Lanka has been been sent home. Labour are very slow learners.

That's not a bullet - 'tis more like a ping pong ball.

And now we're stuck with three more years of treating refugees in a way Jesus disapproves of. But heretics like you think that's a good thing.

Oops! Must have believed the polls and set off in anticipation of a big welcome before the results of the election. That, or the criminals transporting them told them Liberal meant 'liberal'. Good to see them bounced straight back.

runner,

How is Labor involved in this?

a way Jesus disapproves of
Aidan,
Yeah ? What do you think Jesus would have to say about Mohammed or vice versa ?

Individual,

What would Jesus have to say about you,
runner, or me?

'runner,

'How is Labor involved in this?'

just happens Foxy that some years back I spoke to a number of poor Indo fisherman who did time in gaol for people smuggling. He told me they were thrilled when Kevin Rudd was elected because it opened up the trade for him. Certainly Phelps and Labour gave the whisper that you are welcome to try again.

'But heretics like you think that's a good thing.'

yeah well Aiden if spending time in Indo helping out some of these guys is heresy so be it. Certainly a lot easier than to virtue signal and cry croc tears over drowned babies and adults.

"How is Labor involved in this?"

How nieve can one get?

runner,

Bill Shorten stated:

" We cannot, we must not and we will not
permit the reopening of their trade in
human desperation and the drownings and
the irreplaceable loss of life that it
brings."

He made it quite clear that he would stare
down any push to end offshore processing
or boat turnbacks.

Labor if it got into government stated that
it would pursue turning back boats and
maintaining offshore processing. They also
stated that the number of Australian Federal
Police officers to disrupt people smuggling
would be tripled.

Is Mise,

It was my naivity that brought me here.

I know that I trust too easily
Not because I am naive
But because my heart
Wants to believe not everyone
Is out to deceive.

Labor is not involved in this, in any way.
But if you get joy out of baseless claims go right ahead

Labor is not involved in this, in any way.
Belly,
Well, it certainly wasn't the Coalition rambling on about changing Asylum seeker policies !

Aidan,

There are some 68 million refugees across the world, mostly destitute, unable to cough up ten thousand dollars to get on a boat. Millions of those poor buggers are stuck in desert camps in Africa and the Middle East. Many would have applied for entry to Australia as part of the annual refugee quota, in the proper way, andthen sat and waited. And waited. For up to twenty years. Skint. At the mercy of criminal gangs in their camps.

There is an annual refugee quota - around twenty thousand now, I think ? Are illegal immigrants who come on boats part of that quota, or extra to it ? If they are part of the annual quota - or if you would advocate that they be part of the annual quota - does that mean that thousands of those poor destitute people in camps for ten and fifteen and now twenty years, who have applied properly to come to Australia, should be pushed back down the queue ?

None so blind as they who WILL not see the consequences of their thought-bubbles.

Joe

Bill Shorten stated:

" We cannot, we must not and we will not
permit the reopening of their trade in
human desperation and the drownings and
the irreplaceable loss of life that it
brings."

Yes Foxy & Gillard stated. There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead.

Sorry Foxy, you just have to stop trusting Labor.

Dear Joe,

Surely keeping our borders secure and keeping
smugglers out of business has never meant leaving
men, women and children to languish for years and
years in indefinite detention in sub-standard
facilities and unacceptable conditions.

Most Australians agree with the policy of pursuing
regional resettlement, turning back boats where it
is safe to do so and maintaining off shore processing.
But strong, compassionate and sustainable strong
borders do not have to come at the expense of humanity.

Foxy,
It appears that, from the election results, the voters did not believe Shorten or Labors propaganda in relation to illegal immigration.

Dear Hassie,

John Howard also told us there would be no GST
and Tony Abbott broke so many promises. (No cuts
to the ABC, no cuts to the SBS, and the list goes on).
Name one political party that has not broken its promises.

Dear HenryL,

There are many reasons why Labor lost the election.
People have a variety of explanations - both simple
and complex. However we still have to wait and see what
happens next as a result - from both major parties.
There are a lot of expectations involved. Only time will
tell who succeeds and whose faith has been misplaced.
Too early to tell just yet.

cont'd ...

Labor has, as I understand it, believed in pursuing
regional resettlement, turning back boats where it
is safe to do so and maintaining offshore processing.
Their policies are very similar to those of the
Coalition. How they will or will not change under the
new Labor leadership and team, we have to wait and see.
Somehow I doubt very much whether Labor would risk
going against the wishes of the Australian voters.

"Name one political party that has not broken its promises."

Shooters, Farmers and Fishers Party.

Do they have seats in federal parliament?

While neither party has the guts and responsibility to take immigration, illegal entry and 'refugees' to the people at election time, the coalition is still the best bet on those issues. Only a moron would deny that the illegals sent packing back to where they came from would have been allowed to stay had Labor attained government.

Just because Australian politicians undemocratically and tyrannically refuse to treat the matter as an election issue does mot mean it is not high on the list for voters; it is THE issue in many cases. Loopy Labor might think that we have forgotten their appalling lack of ability to protect our borders in the past. We have not.

Foxy,
Yes it will be interesting to see if Labor can convince voters it is sincere and am pleased that minister Dutton has kept his position. We need a strong immigration minister and Dutton has shown he will kick those non citizens out that flaunt our hospitality. One hopes he now has in his sights those African refugees in Melbourne that are currently causing strife. Further of their kind should be stopped from entry and the non citizen law breakers deported. Another serious riot would put muslims under threat of no entry if we are to promote a harmonious society.

Yes, I think it is fair to say we have dodged a bullet for the next three years, at least, by not electing Labor.

Following the death of former PM Hawke I wonder if the present government will now move to end the agreement he brokered with Labor about not debating immigration matters. There is much to debate.

Foxy you have it right, Labor in fact started offshore detention and is in lock step with the government on this issue
Unfortunately it is cruel but voters including me, demand an end to the boats forever
We can get our refugee intake from those as said here, waiting in line
TRUTH Labor can only see votes lost by changing its path on this issue
Maybe Clive paid this boat load to come?
They are back home now and it cost them heaps, to come here
QUESTION as the government has told us [at last] it has returned 200 people to that country
Why tell us about the latest one if we are only told about the others now?

John Howard also told us there would be no GST

And, guess what saved this Nation from economic ruin ?

'Maybe Clive paid this boat load to come?' No Belly didn't you hear it was the Russians?

The boats are a permanent problem and will continue whenever the
smugglers think they can convince their passengers that all is well this end.
Sending them back with maximum publicity is the way to stop the boats.
A recent report is that a boat left India and has never been heard of since.
I wonder how many others have also disappeared ?
Probably not many else there would be a lot of relatives enquiring.

Bazz totally agree and that is what voters demand and will get

Don't forget Individual, when he decided a GST was essential, Howard went to an election with it as a policy. It damn near cost him that election, as so many in Oz don't want to pay their own way.

Also remember he went to his last election with a very unpopular industrial relations policy, which he also believed was necessary. That one cost him his seat & his party government, but he had the honesty & the guts to do it.

Dear runner,

Of course you regularly come across as a person with few morals or redeeming qualities given what you have served up to us over the years but here is a change to claw it back a little.

What do you mean "Dodged a bullet'?

In their latest piece of loony-ness, The Guardian has claimed a spike in suicide attempts on Nauru and Manus since the election. Those pesky pollsters have a lot to answer for! And, The Guardian trumpets, because Australia has had the cheek to return the Coalition government, they:

" …. will hold the Morrison government to account with fearless and fair journalism – delivering rigorous analysis and investigation".

If they don't stop playing with themselves they will go blind; and when did any government bother with a UK based red rag.

Suicide 'attempts' are not to be taken seriously; they are really blackmail attempts, which authorities are well aware of, and they don't work. Nobody asked these people to attempt to enter our country illegally. They can return home, at our expense, anytime they wish. Australians have made that quite clear that they don't want people coming here without invitation - and that's one of the reasons Labor lost the election.

when he decided a GST was essential, Howard went to an election with it as a policy.
Hasbeen,
Yep, the promise of not putting up a GST became a necessity to pull this Nation out of the Hawke/Keating years legacy.

Dear individual,

Lol.

Howard lived off the fat of the changes to the economy which Keating brought into effect. To suggest otherwise is the rantings of a deluded fool.

Further Howard gave us the "never ever" GST after his second term not his first so you are basically saying he did it to cover his own mismanagement of the economy.

Foxy,

68 million around the world. Can we take them all, and show our compassion ? Maybe not. Can we take a select few, the most in need ? Yes, but even then, we would have to provide a range of services to facilitate their movement into Australian society and economy.

Out of the 68 million, mostly languishing in dire conditions, how many do you reckon would have applied on all the right forms and ticked every box they needed to ? Perhaps a million ? 100,000 ? Certainly more than the annual quota ?

So why should anybody, ANYBODY, get a jump in the queue ? Just pay ten thousand dollars and you're in ? Can you see, dear Foxy, how cruel that may be to those in those ghastly camps who have done all the right things and waited ? And been put back in the queue by the queue-jumpers ?

Given that so many of those waiting and waiting are African and totally destitute, there is a slight racist tinge to the blindness of those who support illegal entry of those who can pay smugglers. Of course, those people shouldn't be mistreated, they should to be paid all their expenses and taken back to Indonesia and Sri Lanka, shown how to fill out the forms just like those poor bastards in the camps have done for ten and twenty years, and told to wait their turn ?

Think, for god's sake.

Joe

Individual,

Budget Papers show that the Howard Government was
the highest taxing government in Australia's
history. In terms of government spending there
have been only five years in the four decades leading
up to 2012-13, when real government spending was
cut in real terms. None of those cuts were delivered
by a Coalition government.

We need to start telling the truth about how well
governments manage. Lets not accept "truisms"
that long ago ceased to be true. Lets actually
challenge the damaging childish myths about the
Coalition's superior economic credentials.

Dear Joe,

You protest too much, methinks.

The election has been won by the Coalition. Mr
Dutton is still in charge of our border protection.
Nothing will change.

As for Labor making any changes to their policies
on this issue? They very closely follow the Coalition's
take on things.

So, rest assured.

'Dear runner,

Of course you regularly come across as a person with few morals or redeeming qualities given what you have served up to us over the years but here is a change to claw it back a little.

What do you mean "Dodged a bullet'?

Of course Steelie many of your heroes of morality no doubt came from Venezuela. Certainly up to a year or so ago you Marxist lot were championing all the handouts. Now they can't feed themselves. Oh well nothing to see.

When the previous Govt squanders, the incoming has to take measures even if it means going back on promises. So, had Hawke/Keating managed better Howard would not have needed to introduce the GST which in fact was the economic saviour of the Nation.
I doubt very much that Labor supporters would have sufficient integrity to reject their financial gains from the GST.

Stop the boats,forever
Do not bring the economic refugees held offshore here ever
Send those who arrive here home ASAP
but Explain to me why we need offshore detention
Tell me why the Malaysian solution would not just have stopped the boats, forever, but to refugees arriving in those countries the boats leave from
Pockets full of money to pay criminals to bring them here
Stop too wasting our money and find a home for or return every one held in offshore detention
Cruel?
To Que jumpers?
Never

Refugees are costly to settle. Many have language difficulties; many are low-skilled, bring culturally-clashing values, and remain a drain on taxpayers and public services. Yet political points are often scored on the “virtue” of bringing in more refugees. Tellingly, refugees are usually settled outside of the enclaves of their enthusiastic supporters.

Outside of refugees; immigrants more generally, including those brought in on work visas, have become an easy means for business to hire cheap labour rather than go through the challenge of hiring and training homegrown labour. Growth in real wages, particularly at the lower end, has been miserly at best over recent decades. There is no mystery. That’s what happens when migrants flood the labour market.

Belly don't you realise there is a standing offer to repatriate all gate crashers held on detention free of charge any time they agree to go.

The only thing holding them in detention is their desire to get onto our welfare system, & nothing else.

Hasbeen REMEMBER my thoughts here are shared by many Labor true believers
Yes agree, with every word
My Party must confront this truth
Is in part, in fact those calling for their entry are the biggest contributors to this cruelty
Even smuggling phones and written scripts to them
Selling false hope, keeping them locked up
We differ on our intake of true refugees
We Should continue to take at least the present numbers
BUT pick them,importing poverty is not the answer
Pick those who can make a life work not divide us, welcome them
But stop the waste of offshore detention, find them a home if that is the place they left so be it

Dear Belly,

Bill Shorten made it quite clear that Labor
supported offshore processing and boat turnbacks.

He said that Labor was also for pursuing regional
resettlement and would accept New Zealand's offer
as well as the number of Australian Federal Police
officers to disrupt people smuggling would be
tripled.

Dear Hasbeen,

You wtire;

"The only thing holding them in detention is their desire to get onto our welfare system, & nothing else."

Pigs arse old cock. That garbage might run well in the Mens Shed but nothing could be further from the truth. The refugees I deal with are among the hardest working people I know. One who is a qualified doctor in his own country has worked in a meat processing plant for the last 5 years. He is very grateful for the chance this country has given him but he and his wife certainly aren't bludgers.

Go pick on someone else.

Foxy said;
He said that Labor was also for pursuing regional
resettlement and would accept New Zealand's offer

The problem with that proposal was that New Zealand made it clear that
they would not have a different rule for them than all New Zealanders.
ie they could just get on a plane and come to Australia without visa
as do NZeders. If they were issued an NZ passport we would never know.

Dear Steele,

I totally agree. My experience with refugees is
similar to yours. None of the ones I know are
on any kind of welfare. They work at anything
they can get. It's a matter of pride to them.
Also they end up getting qualified and moving up.
And as you pointed out - they are so grateful
for the opportunities this country has given them.

Steele,

You're talking about legal refugees, part of an annual quota ? Or immigrants ?

People often get the two categories mixed up :) . And then, of course, get illegal entrants mixed up with both.

To clarify: there are immigrants. There are legal refugees. There are illegal entrants. To complicate matters, there are people on 451 visas, work visas; students; tourists. Sorry if it's all too difficult.

Just trying to help.

Joe

Bazz yes few need to understand not every move any government makes is wrong
IF Morrison let those financial refugees settle in NZ thousands more would come hoping for the same result
Cruel,but in truth needed
UNLESS we introduce the Malaysian solution
Stopping all in all surrounding countries however
Just think, EVERY arrival sent back overnight
We get to pick our refugees not have que jumpers forced on us

Dear Loudmouth,

I hardly think the notion of you 'helping' via your post would stand up in any court but yes the family I spoke of were refugees. This is why I volunteered to teach the husband English for a year.

That's another thing Labor's loss has saved us from - a deal with NZ, which would have seen 'refugees' from offshore detention going to NZ, getting NZ citizenship or permanent residence,then coming here just like all the other rubbish we get from them: 'islanders' who wouldn't have a chance of entry into Australia if they hadn't re-branded themselves as Kiwis.

New Zealand is fast becoming the armpit of the world under the virtue-signalling Ardern woman.

Good on you, Steele. No, really :)

I wonder what the Russians would think about a few Australians trying to change the World ?

You didn't expect a square or truthful answer from SR did you Joe. Ant truth would destroy his narrative on everything.

If it isn't twisted & wriggling, it can't be from SR.

Jesus disapproves?

Refugees are people. Unlike Jesus, people cannot walk on water. This has been proven with many drownings on dangerous journeys organised by criminal networks.

I look at questions like this on a cost basis. Take Julian Assange for example. Twenty-one million pounds burned by the Brits and seven million pounds burned by the Equadorians, all because of the selfishness of a precious ponce.

Now what would Jesus think of that?

Dear Fester,

Come on old chap, all the Swedes or the Brits had to do was to guarantee he wouldn't be extradited to the US and he was happy to face the music either in the UK or Sweden.

They couldn't or wouldn't and so he didn't.

I'm not sure you can lay the blame solely at his feet.

Foxy,

Labour's history on illegal immigrants is torrid. Krudd/Juliar promised to turn back the boats in 2007 and only a year later squibbed on their promise. Albo your new Fuhrer until very recently opposed boat turn backs and offshore processing. And if Labor won minority government with the greens, that promise would be discarded like dirty underwear.

The reason that illegal boats were launched were most likely because a labor victory was anticipated. That one boat was lost with all on board should be a reminder of Labor's folly.

SM assure you the sky is not falling , yesterday, like most Sundays I wandered around two markets
This time it bought about a 300 klm drive, to the NSW central coast and back
great food, all made by migrants swapped smiles even laughs, good people
Saw no guns under the stalls no evil, wish they would move to my country village!
In the end they are, just as post ww2 migration did, helping us as much as themselves

Belly,

You are right, the sky is not falling mostly because we don't have a labor government that is hopeless on border control.

SM,

Labor is in opposition - not in government and
as Dutton stated the recent return of the 20
Sri Lankans means that the boats are still coming.
Dutton also said that there have been many more boats
that have been turned back - only we're not told about
them.

cont'd ...

Kristina Keneally has been appointed the
Opposition Minister for Home Affairs and
already Mr Dutton appears to be panicking
by his uncalled for - derogatory comments about her.
You can bet that she will call the government to
account and for greater transparency. Perhaps that's
what's making Mr Dutton nervous. He knows the lady
is very persistent(determined, talented,) and will get
her job done.

SM how do? the title of this thread has very real meaning
Labor dodged a bullet
The economy is about to fail, surplus unlikely, interest rates drop
And Labor should pass ALL the tax breaks Morrison tables
After all, just because they come at the wrong time ,Labor has no mandate to stop them
Morrison, if things get bad, will reret them

Foxy,

The "many" boats you referred to was actually 10 in over 5 years compared with the 300 under Labor in the same period, most of which were turned back or the occupants deported.

That 2 boats left Sri Lanka as a Labor victory was anticipated is not a coincidence. That KK has spent her time railing against boat turnbacks and offshore detention makes her appointment and her sudden conversion a complete joke.

Dutton will eat her for breakfast.

Belly

With the Labor loss, the stock market has rallied, the housing prices seem to have halted their slide and it looks like a Labor induced recession may be avoided. With economic headwinds, a liberal government is far more competent to keep Aus in the black.

SM,

The Liberal Party has won the election.

You can now stop your attacks on Labor
until prior to the next election.

It would be so much better if we displayed
the inclusiveness that apparently both leaders
of the major parties seem to be aiming for -
and looking for commonalities (what unites us)
rather than the old tactics of division.

Things like - "We're better economic managers,"
"We stopped the boats," et cetera. You guys
won - now lets see what you do next and what
promises you do manage to keep and how well
you will be able to do things. You won't be
very successful without Labor's support.
It's time divisions were put aside for the
good of the country.

Foxy,

I apologise in advance. Considering that Labor and the greens have done just about everything to block every piece of Liberal legislation over the past 6 years, I doubt that any spirit of partisanship will survive more than a month or two.

Given that Albo has surrounded himself with those chosen based on political and gender basis rather than competence, I have some confidence that the next election will easier than this one.

Thread says it all Labor dodged a bullet
And the next three years will prove it, Labor and the greens? combined had far more first preference votes than the coalition

SM,

And despite your doom and gloom outlook - our
country is not only progressing but leading
in so many fields.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You wrote;

"With economic headwinds, a liberal government is far more competent to keep Aus in the black."

What an absolute crock. Deep, tainted, unbelievable rubbish.

Labour incurred a debt fighting off the GFC. One only has to look at the Spanish unemployment rate to see the havoc the GFC had wrought and is still being felt in that country.

We got through it relatively unscathed due to some top shelf economic skill from Rudd and Swan. Then your lot of economic bumbling vandals doubled our debt without the excuse of any crisis, just as a matter of course.

Why should anyone have any reason to think this incarnation will be any different? I don't know how this country can afford another 3 more years of shallow economic pseudo-management from your lot. One thing is for sure though, you will be on here screeching about the party not in power as the culprits as always.

Pathetic.

Labour incurred a debt fighting off the GFC
SteeleRedux,
What an absolute crock. Deep, tainted, unbelievable rubbish.
Labor used up all the money Costello put aside for our future ! We're only just now starting to pick up again because the sane number of voters at the last two elections.
It doesn't matter how much you Lefties jump up & down enraged by feigned indignation, Labor can't manage !

Lets take a look at Liberal
economic supremacy.

Those who argue for this being true refer back to
the Howard years.

They seem to overlook a few facts.
Going back to those years - conditions were perfect.
It was pre-global financial crisis and there was a
mining boom. Frankly, you'd have to be totally
incompetent not to run a good economy back then.

Many commentators have argued that Howard/Costello
were dismal economic managers - it was just that
the economy was that robust when they were in power
(for reasons outside their doing) that it concealed
their poor economic decisions.

They squandered good economic conditions instead of
investing in needed infrastructure and Australia's
long-term future.

They preferred using the cash to give
handouts to middle-class and upper-class voters to
win elections, and we are paying for it today.

Tied to their social values was their guiding economic
philosophy which was (and still is)
- allow Big Business to do
whatever they like and their fortunes will "trickle
down."

In the 1980s and 1990s that philosophy was untested.
It has now been tested. It doesn't work.
All that privatisation and deregulation led to money
being sucked up by the rich and never trickling down.

It turns out that the rich would rather put that money
off into offshore tax havens. Use that deregulation
to ship jobs overseas, and slash wages and benefits
for those that remain here, and further use their
growing money and power, to lobby government to implement
more trickle down policies to grow even more money
and power.

The best treasurers they could find were Costello, then
Joe Hockey, then Scott Morrison. It's hard to argue
you're strong economic managers if that's the best
management that you can muster.

Thus far in the past 50 years Labor have not yet managed the economy better than the Conservatives. All they have succeeded in was ruining social cohesion & make Australian manufacturing unaffordable. That is not managing, that's mismanaging !
They ruined Education as well.

Foxy,

The only commentators that thought Peter Costello did a poor job were left whingers with little to no understanding of economics. During this period the real incomes of the lowest 25% of the population increased by more than any equivalent period in Aus history.

The problem that the government had was that the economy was overheated with unemployment at nearly 4% and needed to be slowed, and the absolute worst thing that they could do was embark on a state spending spree for infrastructure that would have boosted inflation to double digits which the pinhead critics don't have the IQ to understand. What they did was to take some of heat out by running back to back surpluses to pay off Labor's debt and build up the future fund.

The record of Labor is somewhat more dismal. While the way to stave off a recession is to inject money into the economy, which Labor did, Labor's expenditure was a litany of cock ups.

The $9bn cash splash went almost entirely on imported white goods and boosted department stores for few months.

The school halls debacle build mostly unneeded buildings that generally only started long after the need for spending receeded.

The pink batts disaster was a good idea that was so poorly implemented that 4 people died and many houses burnt down.

Not to mention the promised 4 surpluses that were all missed by 10s of $bns

IF any truth existed in the anti Labor rant, they can not be trusted with the economy existed
I would be the first to say so
Doubt that? read my post history
I DEMAND nothing less than constant improvement from my party
And can not find a single conservative here who loves his party enough to do the same of his/hers
Rudd kept us from recession Morrison will not

Shadow Minister,

Your track record for facts is a poor one.

I no longer take anything you say seriously.

Individual,

On the topic of making manufacturing unaffordable I was a bit disgusted when Tony Jones chipped Nicole Flint last night on Q&A about the closing of the Holden plant in northern Adelaide - that, he snidely interjected, it was the SA government (i.e. the present Liberal government) which wouldn't chip in any more funds.

Tony: I have it on good authority that that closure occurred in October 2017:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-19/holden-worker-farewell-final-car-ahead-of-plant-closure/9066328

under a Labor government. And quite understandably too, given the size of Australia's market and the efficiency (economies of scale) of Japanese manufacturing.

Joe

Foxy,

Considering that you frequently simply parrot the labor or greens talking points incl the unmitigated twaddle below:

"They squandered good economic conditions instead of
investing in needed infrastructure and Australia's
long-term future.

They preferred using the cash to give
handouts to middle-class and upper-class voters to
win elections, and we are paying for it today."

Your credibility is shot.

If you disagree with any particular point I made feel free to challenge me on it, just don't regurgitate the unfiltered left whinge waffle that sounds good only to the uneducated.

SM,

What you think is of no further interest
to me.

Foxy,

It would appear that thinking is of no further interest to you.

Galah a bird that entered our language because of its behavior
Never seen one? watch SHADOW MINISTER as he constantly insults anyone not sharing his weird view, once elected a coalition person is issued with a halo

SM,

On the contrary - it's because I do think that
I've learned -
arguing with individuals who refuse
to broaden their perspectives is a waste of time.

And I do have better things to do.

Shadow,
When Peter Costello was treasurer, I believed him to be a competent economic manager even though often disagreed with him politically. But subsequently, after watching him on Lateline, I think he's just a lucky fool.

Infrastructure investment has a long term deflationary effect, so it certainly wouldn't have been the absolute worst thing they could have done. And though unemployment may have fallen to 4% overall, there were still parts of the country where it wasn't anywhere near that low.

Running surpluses was a sensible course of action; not because of anything to do with debt, but to cool the hot economy. Instead the government squandered most of the surpluses by implementing an expensive middle class welfare agenda, putting lots of money back into the economy and overheating it in some areas.

So I think Foxy's version of events is more accurate than yours.

________________________________________________________________________________

Joe,
The decision to close the plant was made more than a year earlier. IIRC it was a response to the Abbott government deciding there'd be no more subsidies. There was never any question of the cash-strapped state government doing so (nor should there have been; the targeted corporate welfare strategy of the Brown government had been a dismal failure) and I don't recall Tony Jones saying otherwise, though I'll check when the transcript's up.

The main source of the problem was really the unsustainably high dollar, which devastated many of our manufacturers, not just the car industry. This in turn was due to needlessly high interest rates, set by an overzealous RBA board trying to cool a lukewarm economy.

IF any truth existed in the anti Labor rant,
Belly,
Wrong again as per your usual. It's not Anti-Labor, it's anti incompetence by bureaudroids & other half-baked pseudo intellectual Leftists & Bogans !

Individual,

You're being very selective.

Your outlook needs broadening.

runner,
> if spending time in Indo helping out some of these guys is heresy so be it.
That's not the heresy I'm accusing you of, and you know it.

>Certainly a lot easier than to virtue signal and cry croc tears over drowned babies and adults.
Whose crying croc tears? I'm not the one who wants to prevent refugees from getting here safely.

________________________________________________________________________________________

Loudmouth,
Would you rather the refugees all languished in refugee camps for up to twenty years, skint, at the mercy of criminal gangs in their camps?

I regard that as highly undesirable; I think people deserve the chance to determine their own future. I don't think people who have the initiative to get to Australia should be punished for doing so. People with that much initiative should be encouraged to help build our future prosperity!

>Are illegal immigrants who come on boats part of that quota, or extra to it ?
Part of it, and I don't think they should be. Also I regard the quota as too small.

Dear Joe,

The following link adds some more information on
the politics that wrecked the car industry in
this country:

http://www.senatorkimcarr.com/politics_wrecked_the_car_industry

It's worth a read.

Foxy you can not put two liters in a half liter can
Nevertheless humor is worth seeing

Loudmouth,
The QandA transcript is now up at http://www.abc.net.au/qanda/2019-03-06/11143576
Tony Jones sad "...your government..." to an MP who's part of the Federal government, so obviously he didn't mean the state government.
Here is the relevant part in full:

NICOLLE FLINT
Yeah, absolutely. And... So, the point, you know, Jimmy, that you were making about jobs is a critical one. And, obviously, I’m South Australian, very proud Holden owner, third-generation Holden owner – my parents, my grandparents, both sets. Mum and Dad and grandparents are farmers, and we’ve always...

TONY JONES
That’s a bit ironic, that it was your government that decided to get rid of Holden.

NICOLLE FLINT
But my...

JIMMY BARNES
Joe Hockey, wasn’t it?

NICOLLE FLINT
The Liberal government didn’t get rid of Holden.

JIMMY BARNES
Well, that’s not funny.

NICOLLE FLINT
No, no, no...

JIMMY BARNES
I think it was a long, slow process, actually.

NICOLLE FLINT
Look, there were many factors that contributed, but I...

TONY JONES
Decided not to prop up the car industry anymore – let’s put it that way?

NICOLLE FLINT
The unions, and also the Labor Party, have a lot to answer for here as well.

JIMMY BARNES
But...

NICOLLE FLINT
Because when you have...when you have a situation that is unsustainable, where your product is not enough in demand, where you’re paying people very well...as we should, but you’ve got to balance that with how the company is going. So, you know, as I say, and as I said in parliament on this very issue when Holden closed, which was a terribly sad day for South Australia and for all of those workers...

Dear individual,

You fantasised,

"Labor used up all the money Costello put aside for our future ! We're only just now starting to pick up again because the sane number of voters at the last two elections."

What? Lol. What money had Costello put aside? Australia's gross debt was $58 billion when Rudd took the reins. A combination of stimulus packages of around $50 billion and the economic downturn caused by the GFC saw that figure climb $200 billion to sit at $257 billion when Abbott took over but with tapering increases.

So what did Hockey do when he had the purse strings? Increased the debt ceiling from $300 billion to $500 billion.
http://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/treasurer-joe-hockey-increases-debt-limit-to-500-billion-20131022-2vz6w.html

So the debt increased during the fight to stave off the GFC by $200 billion but it now sits at around $570 billion dollars, an increase of $300 billion after 6 bloody years of Liberal government mismanagement.

Crickey you really do talk out of your arse on this stuff don't you mate.

SteeleRedux,
So, where did that 60 Billion Futures Fund fit in then ?

So, if the show was that bad then why did Rudd see it fit to raise his own salary by $200,000/year ?

well its come to light that our Border Control rescued 41 drowning illegals 10 days ago. Yep what compassion Phelps, Banks, Wong and Labour have. They would have to be the most stupid team on this planet. And of course Aiden, Foxy and others can't think past their totally discredited virtue signalling and failed ideology.

Dear Loudmouth,

If you are in any way suggesting it wasn't the Liberal Party who cut the legs out of the car industry then you are deluded.

The decision was made when the Aussie dollar was well over the USD due to our mining boom, nearly $1.20 in fact. It was no wonder the industry was finding it hard to be competitive under those conditions.

Do you remember when Obama saw the US car industry through its difficult times despite Mitt Romney wanting to allow them to fall into bankruptcy and radical rationalisation. Instead he pumped in $80 billion and they are now employing even more Americans, have paid back most of the loans, and are profitable companies.

Our own car manufacturers were not so lucky. The Libs have always been anti manufacturing as this sector has always been heavily unionised. Along with their National Party buddies they have forced trade deals that have sold out our manufacturing jobs to get better access to agricultural markets.

Just a final note, the Aussie dollar now sits at .70 USD, which would have meant our auto workers were almost twice as competitive as they were at the height of the mining boom if they still had jobs.

What a disgrace Flint was suggesting it was 'high unionised wages' that were to blame for the closures. It was shortsighted economic vandalism of an important industry as well as opportunistic union culling by the Liberal Party and to instead point the finger at the Adelaide workforce was just pathetic from her.

And here you are defending the woman ahead of all those working families who had their livelihoods stripped away from them.

Dear individual,

You wrote;

“SteeleRedux, So, where did that 60 Billion Futures Fund fit in then ?”

Oh good lord mate. Labour not only didn't raid it they created 4 accompanying funds.

“In his 2008 Australian federal budget speech, the Treasurer, Wayne Swan announced three new "Nation-Building Funds", also to be managed by the Future Fund Board. These included a $20 billion Building Australia Fund to invest in roads, rail, ports and broadband; an $11 billion Education Investment Fund, which absorbed the $6 billion Higher Education Endowment Fund set up by the previous government; and a $10 billion Health and Hospital Fund. In that budget and the following 2009 federal budget, the Labor Rudd Government promised A$41 billion to create these new funds.”
Wikipedia

The total funds held under management, as at 31 December each year, inclusive of funds held in the Building Australia Fund, the Health and Hospitals Fund, the Education Investment Fund and the DisabilityCare Australia Fund, are:

Date
(31 Dec) Total funds
(billions) Notes

2008 Increase A$59.62
2009 Increase A$87.23
2010 Increase A$90.51
2011 Decrease A$89.39
2012 Increase A$94.96
2013 Increase A$107.36
2014 Increase A$119.47
2015 Increase A$128.5
2016 Increase A$139.5
2017 Decrease A$138.9
2018 Increase A$147.0

So you can see the largest additions to the fund have been under Labour governments. It would appear they might be pretty good at this kind of stuff.

runner,
Taking the teachings of Jesus seriously is not a failed ideology. You should try it some time!

And what's with this "virtue signalling" crap? You seem to be implying we should refrain from doing good lest it be seen as virtue signalling. Do you think we should signal only vice? If so, why?

__________________________________________________________________________

Steele,
'Twas not the fault of the mining boom that our dollar was so high; 'twas RBA incompetence with the complicity of both major parties. To control an imaginary inflation problem, they set interest rates much higher than other countries, and foreign banks parked their money in Australia, pushing our dollar up.

Runner at the time Christ was my life I would have avoided you at all costs
It is and always will be your views are bigoted and for sure not those of the Christ I once worshiped

Steeleredux,
Those earlier dates coincide with the cost increases in just about everything in daily life.
These success rates you're sprouting about didn't really reflect in any economic improvement in peoples' daily lives. Oh yes, countless public servants' salaries went into overdrive but the standard blue collar i.e. utterly necessary workers did not get a slice of that pie.
It seems Labor did rather well in looking after its cronies & other hangers-on but the average residents needed to keep on battling. Do you really believe they would have swung against Labor if Labor was so switched on at managing ? The blow-outs in anything public service, be it Customs, Health, Defence, manufacturing etc aren't exactly something to write home about.
No matter how many lovely figures you pull out of your hat the fact remains that Labor can't mange because managing means lowering costs not raising them !

SR,

If anyone is suggesting that the car industry wasn't dead in the water by 2014 then they are seriously deluded.

The industry was struggling with the strong $Aus, and between 2007 and 2013 2 of the 4 manufacturers had decided to pull out of Aus and the production of cars and number of people had dropped by 75%. In 2014 the Government subsidy was so high that it covered more than 100% of the wage bills and the industry was still losing money in spite of the 15% or greater tariffs.

Only the morons from labor whose vanity project it was could pretend that there was any economic benefit to the country in maintaining this folly.

Btw SteeleRedux,
Do you have any info on how much we taxpayers still have to fork out for that big Penthouse in Canberra ?

Dear individual,

Those figures were sourced from the Future Fund website which can be found at http://www.futurefund.gov.au

Why do you do that anyway. Admittedly the figures show that you are full of hot air with misinformed views but that is no reason to dig yourself an even deeper hole. Or is it just that a little lie you have told yourself has grown so big you really thought the Labour Party had cleaned out the fund?

Dear Shadow Minister,

The latest figures show an economy slowing to their worst level since the GFC.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-05/australian-economy-slows-to-levels-last-seen-in-gfc/11180688

And we have three more years of this ineptitude to live with.

Snotty Reflux,

Re Australia's car industry:

Thanks for your contribution. I could be wrong but it may have been Tom Playford's LCL government which helped to initiate GM/Holden's Adelaide manufacturing back in the forties.

Perhaps you're right - pointing out a slip by Tony Jones, that it was under a State Labor government here that Holden closed and not a Coalition government, may have been a pretext for me to defend Nicole Flint. I didn't realise that I was so devious and/or deluded. Perhaps you could join the dots ?

Economies of scale: it may be possible for a single auto company to flourish here in Australia but, given the small market and cheaper imports, that may not be so. If you wish to raise funds to re-open Holden's, perhaps you could crowd-fund it ? SA would forever be in your debt.

Cheers,

Joe
www.firstsources.info

Dear Loudmouth,

Snotty Reflux?

I'm not sure I have ever addressed you in such a fashion. I'm trying to figure out why you felt the need to do so on this occasion. I'm not offended by it just a little surprised because this is normally the purview of the more boorish types who inhabit this forum.

Oh well.

No I am not calling for the reinstatement of the Holden plant. Why I would much rather seen was the government using the money they previously used to support the American companies to instead drive an electric car industry, one that would have been supplied by the many companies building car parts.

Let's say 1 billion dollars in the first year with manufacturers electric cars that were 80% built in Australia divvying it up between them up to $30,000 pr vehicle. Then have the subsidy figure reducing by 10% every year over the decade.

Loudmouth,
Why do you continue to falsely accuse Tony Jones of a slip even after I've posted the transcript refuting your allegation?

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Shadow,
What's your source for the claim that "In 2014 the Government subsidy was so high that it covered more than 100% of the wage bills and the industry was still losing money..."?

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Steele,
To be fair, that ineptitude's been bipartisan.

Why would you want the government to subsidise electric car manufacturing so heavily?

Or is it just that a little lie you have told yourself has grown so big you really thought the Labour Party had cleaned out the fund?
SteeleRedux,
Are those figures in that Futures Fund real or just projected ? How come we never heard Labor telling us before the election what great shape this Nation is in ? They would have won if things were that great.
I haven't told myself anything I can only go by what I read & hear from the mainly Leftist media & witness otherwise.
What I seem to see is every time a Labor Govt is installed everything goes up in cost. And, of course, public service salaries increase as do the numbers of public servants.
If Labor are indeed such fantastic economic managers then how do you explain the failure in maintaining local enterprise & the failure to kick off infrastructure projects ?
Why are there poor people even with Labor Govts ?
There are lots more figures you should provide for us to see here if you have the access to them. For instance, where were the 150,000 "already budgetet for" Public Service positions in labor's pre-election spin planned for?
You obviously have insider knowledge so how about it ?

SR,

With the bounce in the stock market and property markets since the coalition victory, probably the country was spooked by the prospect of an incompetent Labor government?

Secondly, Given that just about every manufacturer of electric cars is losing money hand over fist, your proposal looks like another perfect labor vanity project.

Aidan,

This was news in 2014 when the car industry was being discussed. Feel free to look it up.

Shadow,
I don't recall hearing any such claim at the time, and the Libs' tactics of blaming the unions would certainly ring hollow if aggregate wages were less than subsidies!

I do feel free to look it up; I did and didn't find anything, hence the question,

Hi Aidan,

My memory fades very quickly these days, but I do recall Nicole Flint on Q&A talking about Holden's closure, when Tony Jones butted in as usual and remarked either (I forget which) that SA then had a Liberal government, or that it was a Liberal government which was in power when Holden's closed.

No, it was the Weatherall Labor government. I voted Labor by the way, and I understand (I think) why it was impossible to keep bailing Holden's out, Labor or Liberal. But it WAS a Labor government in power at the time. And it was a snide remark that Tony made which tried to shift the responsibility onto the Liberals.

Sorry :(

Joe

Dear Shadow Minister,

Tesla;

Tesla revenue for the quarter ending March 31, 2019 was $4.541B, a 33.23% increase year-over-year.
Tesla revenue for the twelve months ending March 31, 2019 was $22.594B, a 81.17% increase year-over-year.
Tesla annual revenue for 2018 was $21.461B, a 82.51% increase from 2017.
Tesla annual revenue for 2017 was $11.759B, a 67.98% increase from 2016.
Tesla annual revenue for 2016 was $7B, a 73.01% increase from 2015.

Looks like an utter failure to me too. Amazon had a similar trajectory and now look at them.

Hi Joe,
If you're telling the truth, then your memory is playing tricks on you. But I think you're lying.

I've posted an excerpt from the transcript on this thread (it's at the top of p15) along with a link to the whole thing (which also enables you to watch the video to check its accuracy if you want).

Tony Jones's exact words were:
"That’s a bit ironic, that it was your government that decided to get rid of Holden."
I think you WILFULLY MISUNDERSTOOD his words.
• It was a FEDERAL government decision to lay it on the line which resulted in GM deciding to shut Holden. The state government had very little influence in such decisions.
• Nicole Flint is a FEDERAL MP. Her party was in government (federally) when the decision was made, and still is.

So are you SERIOUSLY suggesting anyone could reasonably infer that by "your government" Tony Jones meant "not the government you're a member of, but the state government led by your party" even though everyone knows SA had a Labor government at the time?

SR,

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrlQxAPW4AApbvr.jpg:large

Tesla, unlike Amazon, has been losing exponentially more money every year in spite of huge subsidies.

If you want to piss away $bns of taxpayer dollars then build electric cars in Aus with no market.

In Qld the present treasurer is trying to ruin the economy by increasing tax. Adani might yet say get stuffed & pull out, too much crap from Labor.

What taxes would those be, individual?
If Adani pulls out, it's far more likely to be due to high transport costs and low coal price forecasts than anything the government does.

What taxes would those be, individual?
Aidan,
I suppose your beloved ABC doesn't share unpleasant News from Qld down your way ?

Individual,

Our national broadcaster has much more
than just the daily news. It has programs like
"Four Corners," that educate and inform.

But then that is the job of a national broadcaster.
Feared only by those who prefer to be selective
in the information they want to hear.

Most of Australia prefers to see the full picture.

'Feared only by those who prefer to be selective
in the information they want to hear.'

No Foxy just despised by people who hate tax payer money to be used to spew hatred on white hetro males and promote every other sick Marxist/feminist view from the pit.

Individual,
I didn't watch ABC News on Monday, and there was nothing about it yesterday. But I looked on the Queensland section of the ABC News website. It showed mining and regional Queensland to be winners, while big businesses would lose out. But looking at the latter more closely:
• More than 6,000 businesses with a wages bill of over $6.5 million will be hit with a 0.2 per cent hike in payroll tax.
• Land taxes for companies and trustees with landholdings worth more than $5 million will increase by 0.25 cents for every dollar over $5 million.
• Treasury is expected to claw back $220 million from businesses not paying the tax they owe.
• Businesses that can show a net gain in staff numbers will get a $20,000 tax rebate per employee.
• There's also a 1 per cent payroll tax discount for businesses predominantly located in regional Queensland.

Doesn't look disastrous for anyone (except perhaps tax cheats) and doesn't even look bad for Adani. But it won't solve their problem of high transport costs and low coal price forecasts.

Aidan,

Yes, you're right, point taken. Thank you.

Cheers,

Joe

Aidan,
I just hope you're right in your view but I'm going by historical evidence & every time we get a Labor Govt, up goes the fees & rates.

Dear Individual,

You wrote;

"Are those figures in that Futures Fund real or just projected ? How come we never heard Labor telling us before the election what great shape this Nation is in ? They would have won if things were that great."

Yes they are real but no we are not in good shape at all. Our over-inflated housing market now has little chance of going bust under this government. Labour may have taken some of the heat out of it with the negative gearing changes even though they were stupidly going to match the Coalition's low deposit first home buyers scheme.

Now we are marching toward a very steep cliff with little hope that we have any leadership that will avert the inevitable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEfbDsZ4R4w

The country I knew growing up is essentially gone. The effort to stem hard right capitalism from wreaking what we had is lost. The number of private hospitals in this country will over take public ones within three years. We are fast approaching 40% of our kids in private schools. Our rich have thrown our retirees some franking credit and negative gearing scraps so they have skin in the game so badly need reform will not happen until they die off.

Cont..

Cont..

The whole hard sell about personal aspiration has worked. Morrison's message about lowering taxes for the aspirational class came with the slogan "We want to keep more of your money in your own pocket because you know how best to spend it.

The kind of aspiration they are selling is about 'doing the best for your kids by giving them a private education' or 'affording the best private health cover for you family'.

There is nothing about an aspiration for decent healthcare or education for all Australians, to try and raise our public schools so they out do the private ones, to cut the waiting lists to our public hospitals so that they provide decent and timely care.

What little hope I had for this country in the near future went out the window with the Coalition's win. Recent figures showing the economy has stagnated to levels of the GFC has just reinforced that sentiment.

My hope is with the young in our country. They voted against the Coalition in large numbers in the last election. Once they get properly organised watch out.

The country I knew growing up is essentially gone.
Steeleredux,
Yep, thanks to Labor Govts ! Leftist ideology too has had its grubby fingers involved !

Dear individual,

Your idea of what had happened with the Future Fund was completely at odds with reality so I suspect your reasons for blaming the Labour party for the serious downturn we have already begun to experience when the Libs have been in power for the last 6 years will be just as entertaining.

So mate why is Labour to blame?

Are you okay with more private hospitals than public in this country? How about the fact we have nearly 40% of our children being educated in private schools. The ratio is 7% in Britain and 11% in the US. Is this really what we wanted for this country? Are you okay with this too?

Are you okay with this too?
Steeleredux,
Considering the amount of taxpayers' contributions used it really is not value for money considering the outcome particularly education. Dumbing down could be achieved with a lot less funding than is happening now ! Wasn't private education always frowned upon by the Lefties ?
Indoctrinated mutts interfering with everything people want to do is not the outcome desired from this expensive dumbing down. This much hyped Brain Drain is not our smart going overseas, it's indoctrinating common sense out of our young & vulnerable by the maggots that is the unproductive component of Academia !
The money would be much better spent on infrastructure that maintains local employment & economy.

Dear individual,

Hardly a straight answer is it.

I will try again. Do you think having more private hospitals than public and having 40% of our students attending private schools is a desirable thing for this country?