Hi Joe, my Old Man was the greatest influence politically on me, He was a "Langite" and personal friend of Jack Lang, in my opinion certainly the greatest political leader in Aussie, never to be PM. I have read all the books and material about Lang, Lang was branded a Communist by many, expelled from the Labor Party, Lang was a Socialist, but also anti-communist.

The finest union leader I ever encountered in my years of working and union activism was a communist, Laurie Carmichael. The worse was also a communist, Norm Gallagher, maybe one cancelled out the other.
My teenage years, and early working life, was a time of strong opposition to conscription and the Vietnam War, that would brand you a communist in those days, certainly by members of the 'blue rinse set', but alas I was no more than a member of the ALP, a fervent supporter of Gough, also not one to carry the red flag, but years later when Hawke was PM, I resigned from the ALP, and later joined the Greens.

Hi Rhross,

Yes, you're right, five or six thousand years ago, perhaps much longer, the Sumerians plotted the courses of the planets - they could tell the difference between planets and stars by doing that - it must have been a huge intuitive leap to realise they weren't stars, from their movements. I don't know if Aboriginal elders did the same: that would be very interesting to know. What people can learn with only their own human senses, and no other aids ?

Of course, the Sumerians were farmers and sailors, both of whom need to know the change of seasons accurately: for one, it indicates the chances of rain and when to plant, etc.; for the other the shift in wind direction, currents and likelihood of bad weather.

Cheers,

Joe

@Joe,

Yes, and that is an interesting insight regarding the Sumerians being farmers and sailors. Perhaps one reason why the many different peoples who came to be called Aboriginal, remained at stone-age levels was because they never became farmers and even if some had momentarily been sailors, they did not remain sailors and so did not develop additional skills.

All theorising of course.

Dear rhross,

You asked;

"Since all stone-age peoples appear to have gained some comprehension of east, west, south, north, and spent quite a bit of time star-gazing, just what point do you seek to make since any appearance of this from ancient Aboriginal cultures is hardly unusual."

My post was in direct response to this from you;

"Naming stars and planets is not astrology. Astrology is finding meaning and purpose in the placement of stars and planets which is a rather more sophisticated exercise. All primitive peoples observes the night sky and told stories and myths about what they saw. Not all of them developed astrology. Which Aboriginal tribes named planetary configurations etc., and who recorded that information? It must have been done by Europeans since they were not literate. I have read a lot of Aboriginal myths and legends, variations on the same themes as all human groups, but would be interested to read anything written down about star-gazing."

Paul,

Of course, all I know is bits and pieces about Indigenous policy and culture in South Australia, an insignificant state. Not only that, but that it is the driest state on the driest continent.

But the little that I know and have either observed or read about suggests to me that you are right in your first post, in the first myth:

"1. That there is only one, and there ever was, only one Aboriginal culture. Not true."

That's certainly the case at least in South Australia: different groups had very different cultural practices, languages, myths, ceremonies - perhaps fifty, perhaps many more, different groups within the current boundaries of South Australia.

South Australia is probably not much different from other states and the NT: areas along rivers (say 1 %) which would have been endlessly bountiful (and therefore no need for people to forgo what was easily caught or gathered to go off farming; and 95 % of the area of the state which would have been (and still is) far too dry to grow anything worthwhile without irrigation. The other 4 % or so would be either too rocky and 'mountainous' [in SA, but in other states, 'hilly'] or good country for growing imported strains of grain which has been developed over the past ten or twelve thousand years to be drought- and pest-resistant and high-yielding.

The Aboriginal groups in SA thus

{TBC}

[continued]

The Aboriginal groups thus were either river-bound and living in relatively small clan countries, developing various appropriate forms of cultural practice; or destined to constantly search for food (and water) over far larger countries, and developing quite different forms of cultural practice, which would have been much more likely to involve burning off the grasses and undergrowth in the hope of flushing out animals. After all, in the early days after the Invasion/Settlement, some areas were still impenetrable - some still are (Deep Creek, for example).

Paradoxically, finding water may not have been so much of a problem: people would have known to go from one water source to another one nearby. The problem would more likely have been to find food, particularly at the beginning of drought, when the animals would have eaten out what was available, and then mostly had the sense to move, and move fast, in search of their own food elsewhere. A gradual absence of animals would have been a fairly good sign for humans to move quick, to seek out neighbouring clans and groups with whom they had marriage ties. But in a widespread drought, those groups too would have to move in their turn, and so on. And the more widespread a drought, generally the longer it was too.

So in South Australia, admittedly a small and insignificant state, there would not have been much opportunity, socially, culturally or environmentally, to decide to give farming a go (unless it is re-defined out of recognition). Not that I know all that much, even about South Australia, but I've never seen or heard of any evidence of farming in South Australia before the Invasion. Nor that later, Aboriginal people on Missions (where one of the first tasks was to try to grow some of their own food supplies) were (or even now, are) turned on to planting anything.

So maybe we could bury another myth ? At least in SA ?

Cheers,

Joe