Belly wrote..."Too that that figure can be and is being manipulated to avoid tax?"

How is it being manipulated? By whom? Do you have any examples? If so have you passed them on to the ATO since they have thoroughly vetted these businesses and not found any illegality.

If you mean that they are following the law in such a way that their taxable profit in minimised, then what laws do you want changed to stop that? They get deductions for depreciation? Do you want that removed? Or perhaps accelerated depreciation allowances? Or allowable deductions for donations? Or R&D. Or....

Also, are you aware that companies who pay tax less than the nominal rate have to issue unfranked or partly franked dividends and therefore the shareholder pays the tax. Any plans to change that?

Its a massively complex issue. But the gullible have been convinced that there are rivers of revenue there for the taking. There aren't. Never have been....never will be. But it lets the politicians sound like they have a plan to pay for their latest give-away of newest piece of graft.

mhaze I truly feel sorry for you, true not taunting just the truth
You are so very uninformed but claim to know much much more than you do
Thought this thread held interest, thought it promised two sided debate,maybe even other suggestions to resolve the problems
It is NO secrete 70 international firms pay no tax
Few do not know family trusts exist to minimise tax
Only you,it seems,have no idea about tax avoidance
What is your point? yes you do not like me, often blindly leep in to put the verbal boot in.
But even more often show you are not capable of? balanced thought
Try attacking the truth, not ignoring it
Still think, in the bottom part of my second link, a very good description of a very real problem, is there to see, no not a lefty's view, a well supported view Capitalism must change

How is it being manipulated? By whom? Do you have any examples?
mhaze,
Negative gearing answers all three of your questions !

indy very much more tax evasion is very well known, even recent tax haven showing many Australians involved
M Haze will not accept evidence ,he ignores the truth and hurls his bias not truth at anything he dislikes
In truth tax if not capitalism itself, must be completely reset new ways to ensure everyone pays their way must come

"It is NO secrete 70 international firms pay no tax"

I'm not arguing with that. Its probably true in some way. But not that they pay no tax, just that they pay no INCOME tax.

But the point is that they do so legally. There is no evidence that they are breaking the law.

So (and let me know if you can't follow this logic) if you want them to pay income tax, you need to change the income tax rules. You need to determine that some of the things that are currently deductible will no longer be deductible.

So my simple question, which you are trying so very hard to avoid, is what things will you change to make them pay tax. Just throwing a tantrum and demanding that they cough-up won't do the trick even though that's all you've got.

For example, do you want to get rid of the Tax incentives for innovation. That'd show 'em, right? Or perhaps the R&D tax incentive that businesses use to save tax?

You see, many people who really don't understand this such as yourself just get sucked in by the hype. They're told that companies don't pay tax at the levels they'd like and simply demand that that changes. They don't understand how they avoid paying tax, they don't understand what changes would be required to force them to pay tax, and they most definitely don't understand the ramifications of making those changes.

So we get people like Belly who doesn't understand the difference between avoidance and evasion and we get dills like individual who thinks international companies are expoliting negative gearing rules. Seriously!

You'll note that the article you keep relying on to give your claims a modicum of research doesn't mention international tax arrangements. You know why? Because neither party has any proposals to address this non-problem. You know why? Because it can't be 'fixed'. They've riled up the gullible over the issue but have no solutions.

Or at least no solutions that aren't worse than the alleged problem.
But the gullible won't get that.

"you do not like me".

I have no feeling about you one way or t'other. I think you are sincere in your beliefs but they are based on merely accepting whatever meme the left feeds you.

The thread has split into two themes. One is about company tax payments which I've covered above.

The other is about the alleged need to save capitalism. But the claims are only about allegedly saving Australian capitalism. Left-leaning hacks like Hartcher saying Shorten will save capitalism is pretty funny. That some believe it is funnier.

Its not about saving capitalism in Australia. Its not under threat. What is under threat is Australia's standard of living and international standing. Both of those sit on the precipice.

In a round-about way Shorten might save each by making things much worse much more quickly. Under the Libs there will be a slow decline until one day the electorate will come around to supporting the policies that will truly reverse the problems - massive reductions in all taxes, business friendly policies, ignoring environmentalism and the like etc. But that'll take a long time and things will get very bad before we get there. On the other hand, a term or two of Shortenism will be enough to get us there in a big hurry and then the repairs work can begin.

The only salvation for Australia is a return to true liberalism (Howardism) and horrors of a Shorten government will make that more likely.

that's why I'll be preferencing Lab over Lib