8 days away, that night all eyes will be on the results
And the implications for the Federal one two months away
50/50 two party preferred,both majorshave new leaders from the past election
NSW is in the black, the housing bubble filled the tax coffers
This time, more than any other, but not as much as the Federal election is likely to bring small parties in to the spotlight
Small parties, will have impressive victories
Mark Latham, an ex Labor leader, will win a seat, for one nation! much to talk about on that night if not before

Hard to read this state election
My area has been safe National Party
Fueled by elderly self funded retirees
Yet Ballina,much the same, is held by the Greens
NSW Greens are as deeply divided as any party in my life
This will be close and a week from today as the count continues more will be known
Not sure Federal issues will be a important as in the recent Victorian one but reduced majorities are a sure bet
As are lost seats every one thought to be safe

Will come back to comment on election night
But throw in a few things on the way
I am towing a campaign trailer around the electorate
Including our bigger country market days
So far while away getting a feed number plate torn from trailer
Lights plug torn in middle and thrown on road
But a calm lays over the pre poll booths
No nasty stuff there but never seen more pressing how to votes
And never saw, 40 percent predicted, more early voters

Understand no one will talk about it but keep the thread alive till counting next week
No clear victor
but put my head on the block,leaning to a Labor minority government

Not seeing the bitterness some think is taking place
Very much am seeing full on campaigning, Nationals have up to ten at pre polling
In a seat they have always held
North coastal seats, mostly National, are going to be close in some cases 15 percent swing in this one last election

Hi Belly,

Just to keep you company ;)

After Daley's stupid and thoughtless remarks equating housing and employment problems with immigration, I hope Labor loses. On the other hand, given the fact that Greens voters tend to be so much more well-off than average, and go on about peripheral and self-indulgent issues, I certainly wouldn't be giving them my vote either, if I were in NSW. Shooters' Party ? Never.

So I suppose it's a matter of who do you dislike least ? I suspect that the Coalition will just squeak in, but that might be my deep, subconscious wishful thinking.

Cheers,

Joe

I'll be voting for the SF&F Party, they're the only ones who haven't had their collective noses in the trough.
Honest men all.

Is Mise- Shooters, Fishers and Farmers Party looks good. Myself I don't feel a need for myself to own a firearm but I support it in the community. The rules around owning firearms have become somewhat overbearing in the last forty years. Given political correctness and other social libertarian policies the police job appears to me to have become close to impossible. Possibly the legal profession is playing an interesting power game. The politicians appear to be holding the police jobs as ransom for the implementation of their unworkable policies. We must have hope that the middle electorate will wake up to realities- even when it appears hopeless. That's what it means to be brave.

I hope everyone that supports the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers and other Conservative Parties get out there on polling day and in the pre-polling to spread the word

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw-election-2019/daley-s-foreigners-comments-are-not-like-foley-s-they-re-worse-20190319-p515js.html
No point in hiding it, the above link refers to Joes post
In fact not bias just reality, it may help not hurt Labor
See Bob Carr Dick Smith and a host of others, including, /*first generation migrants* think Sydney is full
ScoMo too wants to review how many come to Sydney/Melbourne and maybe how many we will take
Nothing racist, just the truth
Until we can have a civil debate *about how much of the refugee/Migrant flow worldwide is in truth a symptom of overpopulation* we do ourselves a disservice
Off soon, campaign trail, confident minor parties while doing well in the chook pen are no threat

Like seeing votes wasted,present more danger to the LNP
big day middle of it sent 340 k round journey to bring election day booth stuff
Hick village [we never win that booth] had every one of our posters defaced or cut in half
Police called, posted a week ago after one of the nats was treated like that *only idiots do that*
got that right

One thing about elections, there are plenty of nice sized backings to put targets on.
With a good year, such as this with two erections, we'll get enough to last a full year.

Unfortunately, it is illegal to use the 'portraits' as targets.

//I hope everyone that supports the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers and other Conservative Parties//

You don't know much Canem Malum, the Shooters and Hooters have done a preference deal with the Labor Party.

//I'll be voting for the SF&F Party, they're the only ones who haven't had their collective noses in the trough.
Honest men all.//

Please Issy, yuk, vote for the elephant killer, I don't think so.
Anyway I'm in Queensland these days.

Belly, good contest in Daley's seat of Maroubra. Not saying MD will get rolled but watch the vote for the dark horse the independent (ex Randwick Labor Mayor) Noel D'Souza, very popular in the south end, Noel the chemist is a bit of an institution around the working class area of Matraville, also very pissed off with the ALP. Next door in Coogee Bruce Notley-Smith, a good bloke in my book, and a Liberal, needs to hold on if the Coalition is to survive, keep an eye on that one.

Paul looking forwards to watching the count
The mud is flying, and lies, not sure it will work this time
Good feeling in the air it will be close
Yes know about those seats but think some truly big things may take place in National seats
going into hiding tomorrow, worked long hours and need a rest before manning my booth

Paul bit stunned but yesterday, after a long day delivered my load to our distribution center
Booth stuff set out neat ready to go shed full of the stuff
As aside issue heaps of old men, no youths, packing it
We are the distribution center, and delivery to booths, for? all Greens booth stuff
[No worry Nats are doing it too, for the side giving them preferences]
Greens are strong on the ground but not in numbers big enough to get it there on time.
Knocked off early but still got 7 plus hours in, 3 showing the flag to bumper to bumper traffic

Democracy is an illusion.
Sovereignty doesn't exist in the age of globalism.
Every leader just sells the nation out more and more for globalism.
- One disappointment after another whilst immigration changes our demographics and who we are -
Democracy doesn't exist.

Australia and everything it stood for has been hijacked and is being replaced.

Armchair Critic, is that straight out of your manifesto?

Belly, MD stuffed hid figures which never goes down well when engaged in public debate. The Shooters and Hooters Party look like winning 44% of the state.

No Paul, much too gloomy, on the ground the feeling is good
Maybe not victory good, but it was always going to be hard and close
AC if you live in a world that doesn't exist do not expect the average punter to live there too
Dalys blunders? first won more votes than it lost second? matched by Glads one
off to work, looking forward to Sunday sleep in

Paul,

"Please Issy, yuk, vote for the elephant killer, I don't think so"

Do you mean Robert Borsak, the conservationist?

He paid good money to shoot an unwanted elephant under Game Management Policies in an African State.

Shew me one Green who has done as much for conservation, especially in Australia.

Yep! That's him Robert Ballsup, the conman! "Shot an unwanted elephant" paid good money to do it, glad to hear that, and he didn't pay bad money. Yep these lots of those pesky unwanted elephants running around, had half a dozen of the varmints in me strawberry patch just the other day! Do you recall great grandpappy Ballsup, shot the last of the unwanted dodo's. Don't worry Issy you're still safe, you're not on the unwanted list....YET!

Anyway comrade, we are now comrades BTW, you'll have 44% of NSW after tomorrow as you own personal killing field! You can invite all the gang, Martin, Ivan, the Ballsup brothers, Wombat Man Tony, all the gang to a big shoot em'up. I believe there are a couple of woodchucks out there, so bring you AK47! Wow, its gona be fun, we may even get to roast our weenies together, sorry woodchucks. Around the camp fire at night, all those dead carcasses hanging in the trees, the groans of dying varmints in the bush, particularly the unwanted elephants, and fat brother Ballsup who I mistook for an elephant earlier in the afternoon, I can't wait.

Well after my day on the booth it is over for me
Sunday what a relief, may even get the lawn mowed
SMH came out today in favor of the government
That may not say much'
Yes the last few days have seen our leader,and theirs, fall in a hole
Was never going to be easy, but we are a chance
Smaller parties will win seats in the chook pen
Unlikely too many in the lower house
My tally, of costs? new number plate ,stolen while I was having lunch
New trailer lighting set up, same as above
Two new trailers tyers
4,OO38 klms traveled over two weeks
Parking the trailer up, too much too costly fins another way to contribute.

Paul,

"Shew me one Green who has done as much for conservation, especially in Australia"

What's the matter, too hard?

Last early morning
Transporting booth stuff them mine, keeping the eyes open will be my problem
Is Mise, as you have seen the NSW Greens have made me a bit stroppy
But in the end they bring middle income educated people to them, not lefty fools
Such people exist in my party, they think they have answers
In today's polls my mob swap preferences,but go head to head in northern seats
Asking if they are fighting themselves who is fighting the government
Even those who vote for super conservatives, think they are doing the right thing

Issy, are you delusional, to say the actions of some overstuffed heart attack in waiting in the form of Robert Borsak shooting a defenceless elephant in Africa was an act of "conservation" is disgusting! The truth is the fat pig went to Africa and paid "good money", emphasise "good money", to poor Africans to shoot this majestic beast for no other reasons than to get his perverted jollies. To call the actions of this grub "conservation" is an insult to the true conservationists in this world who have fought battle after battle with people like you and Borsak to save the little of the environment that still exists in its un-spoilt natural state.

You say "Shew me one Green who has done as much for conservation (as Borsak), especially in Australia."

Well old sod, I'll put up the original work done by Bob Brown to save the Tasmanian wilderness. To quote "Its now 35 years since Bob Brown lead the fight to save the Franklin River in Tasmania." He saved it from you lot. Bob has done more in Australia for conservation with his little finger, than that 200kg of elephant killing lard sitting in the NSW parliament has done with his whole body. BTW has fat guts run out of things to "conserve" in Australia that he has to run off and "conserve" elephants in Africa by shooting them!

Belly, as one on this thread, who is unbiased on this matter, I call on you to please adjudicate.

Is Mise said;
"Shew me one Green who has done as much for conservation (as Borsak), especially in Australia."

Issy, puts up Robert Borsak shooting elephants in Africa. I put up Bob Brown and the Tasmanian Wilderness.

Please choose Borsak or Brown. Unbiased as I know you are.

Paul,

You did it!!
Answered a question with it only having to be repeated once.

Of course, you're right Bob Brown did an immense amount for conservation in Australia, more than anyone else.

Just a small point, I think that Robert Borsak weighs a bit less than Bob Brown.

"Dec. 4, 2017

The United States Fish and Wildlife Service last month moved to allow hunters to bring home trophies from elephants killed in Zimbabwe and Zambia. Safe to say, few conservationists saw it coming.

In a 39-page report, the agency cited Zimbabwe’s progress in creating a sound management plan for its 82,000 elephants and evidence that hunting revenue is in fact reinvested into conservation. Well-managed trophy hunting “would not have an adverse effect on the species, but can further efforts to conserve the species in the wild,” the agency concluded."
http://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/04/science/elephants-lions-africa-hunting.html

The money goes for conservation and the meat goes to the local villagers.

is mise has little regard for my opinions Paul, but while Labor passed the legislation it was the greens who made it happen saving the Franklin river
Back during the count, but here's a rundown of my day at the polls
two asked for greens HTV one hunter and fishers
Hunter fishers bloke turned up, did not stay to hand out HTV, walkedin , yes he did, polling booth with then under his arm, I STOPPED HIM,nearly a blue half my age and half wit he had a do what I like attitude
Punter pushed me, pushed back, after a spray about that filthy thing Eddy Obead, who he insisted was out of prison, NATS took my side
been an interesting campaign
both parties at booth got on well even swapping chairs and jokes

Hey, you slackers !

In my home-state, a woman has been elected as Premier in her own right for the first time.

Like Anastasia Palaszczuk in Queensland, also a non-Anglo.

An Anglo woman has yet to be elected as premier of any Australian state in her own right.

Multiculturalism ? Wonderful !

Joe

Loudmouth- I'm very relieved Labor didn't get in. The Liberal Party still have a lot of work to do before the Federal Election.

Is Mise- The SFF seem to have done well. Good job. Anyone that is committed against the Green Watermelons has got to be good. Good to see their work on the legal framework surrounding gun ownership and self defense- amazing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/nsw/2019/results
Alimp result for Labor, swings went from seat to seat and the voters rejected us
Paul was closer than me, his greens held their three seats, and threatened to take at least a fourth briefly
Labor wom Lismore, an historic event, greens looked to be the best chance
Loudmouth has a point,Daughter of refugees smashed us
We may have increased our seats but fell badly
FFSH took the Nationals to the cleaners, and may do it again in two months
Labor NEVER as a party, took a public stand, against the rats in our ranks in NSW, they are long gone, but for some the smell lingers
My seat? never going to win, not even in the next election, but we took point nine of one percent back, after 15 percent last time
A win? not claiming one in a year National shed voters like dandruff

Hi Belly,

Once upon a time I was rather cluey on NSW politics. Still have a couple of contacts on the Labor side I can have a chin wag to over a beer. Now in Queensland and back in the fold so to speak, but keep to myself in retirement these days. Other than a brief visit down there for a week during the campaign, and a couple of good luck text to a few candidates, I didn't have much contact with the old gang.

I always apply the adage 'Oppositions don't win elections, Governments lose them!" That's the biggest truism in politics I've ever come across.

On this one, the Coalition hadn't committed enough sins to have the voters punish them with the sack. I also think the voters are still punishing Labor over Obeid, a little, I said at the time the ALP has got 12 years for this crime, with a non parole of 8, looks about right. State elections are about the basics, what I call bricks and mortar issues, schools, hospitals, transport, housing etc, things people see and use and pay for. Old Laurie Brereton, Hard Hat Laurie knew that well.

Things that went against Labor, besides past crimes. The biggest by a country mile, the cash flow from a booming housing market in Sydney which allowed the Liberals to splash the cash on infrastructure projects. BTW the government will get a big lift from that spending on completion, in 4 years time. Foley hitting the rocks and having Daley step in at short notice, bad. Daley's gaffs this week, embarrassing but not a killer blow. Doing a preference deal with the Shooters and Hooters, alienated many new age young city potential Labor voters, what was Labor thinking. help the Shooters and Hooters get in and then they side with the conservatives, great. Everyone's calling Labors focus on the SFS a mistake, I have to agree, over kill there. I have a bit more to say comrade. Such as the failure of the Shooters and Hooters, surprised no, the success of the Greens, surprised yes.

Well put and true Paul, I hurt, could put a case for a victory, Lismore was an outstanding result but no victory here
Yes my links still exist, got phone calls last night, from very important people
But I tend to be a bit too frank, can play the moderation, game but truth matters
See the public needed my mob to scream ABOUT THE FILTHY RATS IN OUR RANKS, GUTLESSNESS WON'
We, the party of picket lines, should be outside every court any such filth is seen in screaming for their heads
We will regain power in four years
But must restart, now, time for a new leader new plan, time for country Labor to shine
And time to catch our breath and hope Joyce continues as he started, yet again, in this morning's press, well done NSW Liberals, even better well done our first elected woman your true center TRIUMPHED yesterday

Hi Joe,

When Gladys Berejiklian took over from Mike Baird, I thought here's a go for Labor, the Liberals have put in an "air head" a conservative version of Kristina Keneally, considering Gladys track record as a minister was not all that good. Well I was wrong, she's been more than a match for Labor. What can Labor do, give Mick the flick, and find a woman of substance to fight fire with fire.

Belly, in MD's seat of Maroubra Mick suffered a personal swing of 10% with it all going to the Independent Noel D'Souza who picked up 14% of the vote as expected. If Noel had directed preferences to the Liberal, things would have been interesting.
Bad luck for the Liberal I like, Bruce Notley-Smith in Coogee, looks like Bruce is the liberal sacrificial lamb, back to the cleaning Bruce.

Shock, I say the Shooters and Hooters done badly, when everyone saying the opposite. Given they were taking on a punch drunk opponent in the toxic Nationals, and had a million dead fish on their side in a seat like Barwon, a 30% vote is not that great. But getting into parliament is always an advantage next time around, if you do the right thing, see the result in Orange the Shooter picked up 50% primary, must have ingratiated himself well with the voters since his by-election win.

The Greens did well, holding their 3 seats without much trouble, considering the kerfuffle with division they have been having in NSW.

Paul,

The SF&Fs did really well, much better than the Greens, as was to be expected.

In fact, no one else did as well as the SF&Fs.

Paul,

According to the ABC, there was a swing of 3.2 % to the SFF and a swing of 1 % against the Greens. So the Greens lost nearly 10 % of their previous support.

Joe

The Greens will continue losing votes and their grip on reality if they hang on to the fascist lunatic di Natale, screaming hate against anyone not him, which would be would be every other Australian, including ordinary Greens, who don't go around giving Mussolini impressions as di Natale does.

Nasty swipes will not change the truth, not that truth is welcome for some
Not a fan of the greens, NSW highlights why, they overcame a very big hill in front of them
Fact is doubt voters even understood the internal war
Held their seats, faceing a gale force wind, and almost won one more
Being ALP solidarity is my word to work with
So solidarity with our leaders,keep your hands off my sugar bag, yes I know it is moving
And yes it is telling us it is our leader
Sugar bags lie
Solidarity forever
Or at least till after the federal election and not a day more

Firstly the total failure of ttbn's AUSTRALIAN CONSERVATIVES, ran 11 candidates in what would be perceived as their best seats To maximise their vote. Well if a 2.7% average is the best you can do, laughable, Corny Banana needs replacing.

As for the GREENS, down 1% overall, given their recent infighting in NSW, less than what I would expect. What is surprising is the vote for the GREENS in winnable seats was up around 3%. Political parties target winnable seats, LABOR had a fair list of government seats they targeted as winnable, since they had eyes on forming government, that's where they spent their on the ground money. On that score LABOR failed badly.

The SFF did extremely well in the one seat they held before the election, Orange, the local member should be congratulated, 50.5% personal vote, checking Bathurst and Dubbo two nearby seats, they got about 14% of the vote. The two seats they won from the sick old man the NATIONAL PARTY were based on a protest vote against the NATIONALS, so the SFF styled themselves as the alternative. The SFF were all puffed up, or cashed up, and had a shot at 24 seats. In the 21 seat they did not win, their vote was averaging 9%, and again that was in NATIONAL seats where there was often a fair swing, which SFF benefited from, without that benefit their vote would be down around 6%. The SHOOTERS AND HOOTERS need to hope for lots more dead fish come next election, or make themselves the de facto National Party.

Paul,

My grapevine is loaded with sweet fruit so there is no need for your sour grapes.

The SF&Fs party did extremely well, they, in fact, seem to have increased their membership of the lower house by 200%, whereas the Greens couldn't increase at all.

Sugar bags may lie but immovable bias will not let the truth breath
Another thread assured me Trump is innocent and one nation will do well in the election
They exist
That is how one nation gets votes

belly,

It seems that you are having trouble at cards, try some game where there are no trumps.

Is MISE T the letter seperating a Wit from a Twit
enjoy

Belly,

That's you to a 'T'.

Just poured myself a congratulatory dram of 12 year old 'Antiquary'

Slán go fóill.

Is Mise- Cheers to you and to SFF. May they reign well. The dawn of a new age.

Let us face a truth numbers matter
HFF party, apart from the chook pen, upper house are powerless
Three independents are to vote with the government
46 maybe 47, plus three?
Bills will pass that house no matter how greens or HFF votes
Extreme right, other than Latham,won zero seats, unless in the chook pen
now Nationals are on the nose, HFF another right party transferred their votes, most likely only hurting? conservatives
IF they take all National seats, in time they may, they will still need the LIBERALS to ride on to get anything done
But if HFF got more seats the Liberals, under the agreement that holds the LNP together, could compete for those seats
I suspect the Liberals would better represent country folk than the nats of HFF mob

Issy,

I'm not knocking the result of your Shooters and Hooters Party, what I was trying to point out there were a couple of factors which caused a somewhat skewed result in favour of the SFF in the form of a protest vote. One was the drought, and the perceived poor response from the Nationals, secondly was the infighting within the National Party. What this result does do for the SFF it gives them an opportunity to build a broader base in Regional NSW at the expense of the National Party.

I found the short speech from Philip Donato the member for Orange a reasonable account of the position in the bush, and if the other new SFF members take a similar approach, and the party works harder on policy then they could establish themselves as a real alternative to the Nationals. The National Party has had a monopoly on bush representation for years, now someone has come alone offering a real alternative.

What few on here would know, is the Country Party (Nationals) in early Australian political history was a far more "socialistic" party than what the National Party is today. Through a long period of coalition with conservatives, the party has moved more to the right, and lost much of its early identity. I detect an element of "conservative socialism" within the Shooters and Hooters today. I'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing, I also detect it in One Nation as well. If you throw in a degree of nationalism with socialism you have 'National Socialists' a Nazi lite party like One Nation.

Extreme right?
Get your hand off it Belly.

In my opinion the word 'far' as in 'far-left' or 'far-right' denotes a willingness to publicly cause violence and wreck up the place and physically attack members of the opposition.

The ONLY lot fitting that description in the current political climate is the left, your lot.

- Empowered Antifa Hordes of Chaos -

What do we have on the right ?
(Wait for it, drumroll please

We have Neil Henriksson and a 'mock beheading'.

Well woopty bloody do mate...

But you go a step further and denote 'Extreme right'

I'm imagining some kind of Rambo headhunter cross-breed who has the heads of minorities tied from his battle armour.

What is it exactly that you're imagining?

AC //In my opinion the word 'far' as in 'far-left' or 'far-right' denotes a willingness to publicly cause violence and wreck up the place and physically attack members of the opposition.//

Its exactly that; an opinion. Telling Belly to "Get your hand off it" because his perception of extremism is different to yours is discourteous. In the context of pre-war Nazi Germany your definition would be entirely appropriate. In the context of a modern moderate Australian society what constitutes extremism is far less compelling.

I find your views as posted on this forum often to be extreme. In relation to the Christchurch terror attack, you said your reaction was one of laughter, the majority of Australian would find that response extreme, and I agree.

I wonder what Paul1405's view is of "Face Punch California".

Hey Paul1405,

"Its exactly that; an opinion. Telling Belly to "Get your hand off it" because his perception..."

Blah-blah-blah...

Well, what is YOUR opinion of what the word 'far' as in 'far-left' or 'far-right' denotes exactly?
- I reckon this will be interesting because you lefties seem to have everything around the twist
C'mon, explain to us all yours (or the left in generals) precise technical understanding of the attributes the word 'far' denotes.

FYI, 'Get ya hand of it Belly'; similar to 'Get yer hand off it mate' is a perfectly acceptable use of wholly Aussie vernacular.

'discourteous'? - Pffft...

You don't know much 'Aussie' are you sure you're from around here?
I'm pretty sure Belly's fine with it, but if not I'm sure he's a big boy and can tell me off himself.

"I find your views as posted on this forum often to be extreme. In relation to the Christchurch terror attack, you said your reaction was one of laughter, the majority of Australian would find that response extreme, and I agree."

Yeah so what, I think a lot of people would find my views extreme.
- Mostly those who disagree with me -

But don't make out I'm some nut job out on the fringes because plenty of Aussies agree with my positions as well, I'm not alone.

Also, if I hold views which may be seen by others as 'questionable' then I'll take the time to put my opinions into a context, and without that context; well, you're just attempting to score a cheap shot by misquoting me.

On Page 8: I said this:
"I'm not heartless; to the families of the people killed and injured, to those who witnessed the events or were on the scene in the aftermath of these events to provide assistance, you all have my sympathy.

But to the greater Muslim community I'm laughing my head off, sucked in, I don't care."

- That's what I said.

[Cont.]

I've explained my position so many times here I'm like a cracked record already.

- I don't agree with succeeding Australian sovereign rights to UN agendas. -

I say NO! to Global Authority over Nationalism.

Actions have consequences.
If I show sympathy for the Muslim community in general,
Then the consequences are this are that the Muslim community influences or dictates laws against Australian citizens in their own country.

The bigger picture is that I never supported the 'mass migration of Muslims' policy in the first place;
And I don't support the Pro-Israel wars that brought them here either.

Belly, Paul, rationalise it for a month, with all the excuses, but the truth is, you got your lot got their ass kicked.

All that fearless forecasting was a joke, as is trying to come up with something positive for your respective bunches.

Just like Hillary, you lost, get it L O S T lost. Get over it & try to live in the real world in future.

Personally I have no idea if this lady will be good or bad, but I did like her acceptance speech.

AC //But don't make out I'm some nut job out on the fringes because plenty of Aussies agree with my positions as well, I'm not alone.//
If they not banged up in New Zealand then you could fit them all in a phone box.

//I wonder what Paul1405's view is of "Face Punch California".// Canem Malum; You'll just have to keep on wondering, it will fill in your day.

Hasbeen //Personally I have no idea if this lady will be good or bad, but I did like her acceptance speech.//

Me to, unlike YOU she never mentioned nuking 200 million Pakistanis once in her acceptance speech. That's a good start.

armchair critic you pose an interesting question
Is it ok to say such things
And can I too
any taxidermists in your area?
Cool clear headed,see the failure of my side, see a leader best after he is no longer leader
Still firmly, think voting for the small parties only helps my side
Greens? maybe not so always

Dear Belly,

There's quite a few lessons to be learnt from the
election in NSW. Hopefully some good will come
out of it for the people. Perhaps now some of the
infrastructure projects that have been started will
be finally completed. One can only hope.

Secondly - perhaps Labor will be more choosy in whom
they pick as a leader to run for office. The current
guy in NSW did not impress me. - But perhaps he wasn't
in long enough to make an impact - hence people did
not rally around him. He was an unknown entity.

Anyway - we'll see what's on next in the political
stakes. I wouldn't be counting my chickens yet if
I were the Coalition. Look at the mess the Nationals
are in (Go - Barnaby!). And I mean - that guy has
really got to go! And what are they going to do
about the water shortages for the farmers?

Belly's got some form.
Nice job mate.

Sorry to hear your side lost.
(Not really, but I can pretend for the sake of being nice)

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw-election-2019/surf-lifesaver-rugby-star-motorbike-riding-newcomer-labor-s-only-shining-light-20190324-p5172a.html
Wanted, the NSW ALP is looking for a leader, I recommend the lady in my link, or Jodie MacKay
However there are some things needed, and understanding NSW does not stand for Newcastle Sydney Wollongong
An ability not to turn in to a racist fool while on camera, oh yes keep your hands to yourself when drunk
Last your factional mates are not the most important people in the world, voters are
Yes AC got it wrong knew it would be hard never thought we would take a torpedo, from our then leader
BLAME? apart from him EDDY OBEID he and his filth saw us with lost seats we may never regain, we should never ever forgive that mob
Foxy, voters got it right

Foxy,

Barnaby Joyce is a well-liked local member and will be reelected for sure and will be doing his utmost for his electorate as a member of the next Federal Government.
Probably a bit early for him to get a portfolio, that'll come mid-term in the first shakeup.

Maybe I'm not too bright but I have the suspicion that the natural allies of the Greens are not the Labor Party but the 'left-wing' of the Liberal Party - both represent economically well-off people, so economic issues are not as important as their self-indulgent take on social issues. The more natural allies of sections of the working-class, the usual base of the Labor Party, is - I hate to write this - the One Nation Party.

Certainly, the Greens take votes from the left-wing (and usually more affluent and professional) sections of the Labor Party but I'm intrigued that Green seats (and seats that both Labor and the Libs fear will be taken by the Greens) tend to be in affluent electorates (Kooyong, for god's sake), and certainly not in working-class areas. If anything, the Labor Party probably fears a loss of working-class support to One Nation.

These sorts of movements and alliances make a bit of a mockery of 'Left' and 'Right': they are more likely to be characterised by new terms such as 'self-indulgent' and 'fearful', tarted up, of course, as 'socially-concerned'.

Strange times.

Hi Joe,

Being rather cynical with terms 'self-indulgent' and 'fearful'. Not clear on who are the ones "tarted up, of course, as 'socially-concerned'", the self-indulgent or the fearful.

//Maybe I'm not too bright but I have the suspicion that the natural allies of the Greens are not the Labor Party but the 'left-wing' of the Liberal Party//

If I delete "left-wing" and add the progressive sections of both Liberal and Labor parties then there would be no need for suspicion, it would be an absolutely truth. I can assure you 15-20% of Green preferences go to the Liberals. In round figures the Greens poll something like 1.3 million votes nation wide, to say 260K are economic conservatives but social progressives is about right. To draw so many votes away from a party strongly focused on economic issues is not surprising but its only about 5% of the Liberal constituency.

//The more natural allies of sections of the working-class, the usual base of the Labor Party, is - I hate to write this - the One Nation Party.// There is some draw down from the lower socio-economic conservative Labor voters to One Nation, but far greater is the defection of Liberal voters, where by One Nation draws from a wider group that would otherwise be conservative Liberal voters. I suspect One Nation draws votes from the two major parties in about the same proportions as do the Greens, but inversely.

To put it in perspective the rise of the Greens is bad for Labor, equally the rise of One Nation is bad for the Coalition. The saving grace is the flow back of preferences to the big parties.

The Liberals are looking at a real dilemma in how they preference One Nation in relation to the Labor Party. Labor has no such problem, they preference the Greens above the Liberals, and it alienates none of their constituency. Should the Liberals preference One Nation above Labor it will alienate a section of their moderate base, enough to see them vote Labor.

Here I go at it again, we learn nothing if we remain blind to voters needs wants and intentions
As our Glad has won a majority, she needs no other party to rule
She has 38 seats needed 37 to rule on her own
She will be happy to take the three independents votes
What then of the Greens? the hunters and grunters? how can they achieve anything
Even if Labor votes with them
Now For the chook pen
Can we agree voters have spoken
They want our Glad to rule? why should that house of ill repute stall her?
She has every right to rule, let the electorate in 4 years judge her not the chook pen
Question, how long will it take Mark Latham, to leave one notion?[not a spelling mistake]
Will be form his own party

Barnaby will never lead his party again
His advice for the party to turn right overlooks that is one of the reason they are in trouble
Barnaby, this time, will have a reduced majority in his seat

Hi Belly,

You are forgetting Barnyard Joy is a member of the Mad Hatters Tea Party. If the March Hare don't want the gig then Bonking Barney would be the ideal candidate.

There's an old saying that oppositions don't win government, governments lose it.

NSW Libs didn't give the electorate enough reasons to replace them. Some, but not enough.

The federal Libs on the other hand....

No doubt in my mind Labor lost the election
Mostly in the last week but too because the stadium thing was much like Tasmanian ban the pokys
Poorly thought out policy

Every big party, those with both intention to govern and the ability must never ignore voices that do not agree with them
In fact both sides, in the end there are only two, must understand it is not their true faithful that win them elections
The last election in Tasmania saw it lost before a single vote was cast
However nice/good it might be, having a no poker machine policy killed Labors chances
And a good start to a campaign is just that not a victory
Our Glad was never hard right, she was never going to just fall over
So it is over ,we came a gutser lets learn, blame only ourselves, and learn from it

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw-election-2019/greens-mps-look-to-repair-divided-party-room-20190327-p517zo.html
This link may lead to informed comment about the greens in NSW
Paul may find it interesting if it was not published up there

Belly,

"NSW Greens MPs will begin peace talks on Thursday in a bid to repair their fractured party room before the new Parliament resumes.

The seven Greens MPs will sit down with an independent mediator to work through their differences after a near-split in the party's ranks at the end of last year.

Greens MP for Balmain Jamie Parker confirmed the party room would be meeting with a facilitator, but said the focus would be on strategy.

"We will all be meeting, including our new Member of Parliament [Abigail Boyd], to map out a strategy and build on our success at the election," Mr Parker said."

Best of bad cess to them, as they go on their way to joining the DLP.

is mise you will be aware, others may not, the greens are a thorn in my side
But those who vote for them do not have two heads
They are not the great unwashed
Mostly middle income they want the best, and too the impossible
they want to end coal exports far earlier that wise
You read the link, here or on your own bat
But I truly doubt country green truly know about the bickering going on

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-29/greens-blame-internal-problems-negative-media-for-election-loss/10950124
Well worth a read, it asks how will they go in the next big one
Not posted as anti green posted because this is the very real problem the greens have
And in a world infected by right of reality waste your vote parties

http://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/minor-star-or-major-embarrassment-the-baffling-rise-of-teena-mcqueen-20190328-p518ge.html
Too worth the read, yet another plank in my view the very right in the LNP are an anchor, likely to do far more harm than good in May

http://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/almost-traitorous-shooters-take-aim-at-one-nation-over-gun-expos-20190329-p518xy.html
If no one reads it that is ok but in the NSW election this party made big ground
It could very well hurt the Nationals and out side Queensland the one nation that seems to be dieing outside that state

Belly,

Good link.

There is no doubt that One Nation was set up and equally, there is no doubt that they were stupid enough to allow themselves to be set up.

The moral of the story is don't criticize Islam.

is mise in all reality do not criticise Islam, if it was the media's mission, would not sell in this country
One nation showed us its very internal workings
It can no longer compete with Australian Conservatives or the Shooters
Hanson, at best, has shown herself out of touch, with her base
Informed people KNOW her preferences in the last Qld election went to Labor
Only in Queensland has she any chance
Review her elected members, find them now
What is the point in putting them in a seat only to see them join yet another party
She installed the man who will one day run her torn and tattered party, Latham, the joke is she never truly had a party just refugees for a time living under her name

Seems as if David Leyonhjelm has won a seat in the NSW Legislative Council.

is mise it remains my view the chook pen is undemocratic
Hurts but my partys loss was a self inflicted wound
Glad won
Had it been my mob my view would not change
A government with a clear majority in the lower house should be able to rule, always
YES some voters do not understand, and never will,such as the fool you mentioned can achieve nothing
UNLESS it is by blackmailing those voters who elected the government
Chook pen is no longer a states house, or even a house of review
To their eternal shame, both majors rarely join together to limit the small parties damage in the house of ill repute, halve the number of seats double the number of votes needed one vote one value no preferences for upper houses or senate

Belly.

"... one vote one value no preferences for upper houses or senate"

and thus would Democracy die.

Belly- At least you are consistent and don't sway with the wind. Like the captain that ties himself to the mast in the storm- sticks to his principles. I find reading ancient wisdom offers a great chance to keep my crew safe.

Canem try looking up the policies and speeches of Sir Robert Menzies, promise a good read
It will be informative
However in reading it, understand there was reason for his reds under the beds rants
They existed
Until 1967,even in one of the unions that make up my one today
Worth knowing, even then most workers disliked the Commos
Celebrations went on for days after they fell
DEMOCRACY IS MISE was never about minority rule

Belly,

So, you'd be happy if there were 10 candidates, and the highest vote was 25% to 'A"
So, the bloke with 25% gets elected even though 75% of the voters hated his guts and wouldn't waste their urine on him if he was on fire?

Yes, that's democratic.
That's if you think minority rule is democratic.

is mise, surely you are not claiming you see that in my post?
Come on you can do better, without insulting the truth
Small parties, even micro parties, infest our chook pens [upper houses and senet]
They in total, get no more than 20 percent of the vote, including the greens with about ten percent
IF we had half the numbers in those places of ill repute, and required twice the votes for a seat
Only the greens would,mayb, win seats there
Based on? *voters true intentions*
Just because you may want AC or one nation,or any fringe party in those seats is not reason for minorities to override majoritys wishes

is mise you and I have been here before, waiting for an answer
How did you, in any way, see my plan to stall, even end, minorities ability to overrule the big two as minority rule?
please explain,slowly Pauline may be reading this

Belly,

In our system of Preferential voting a person, to be elected, must get more than 50% of the vote, first past the post etc., can result in a person being elected by a minority when the majority hated their guts.

Hey Canem Malum,
Your last comment sounded interesting...

"At least you are consistent and don't sway with the wind. Like the captain that ties himself to the mast in the storm- sticks to his principles. I find reading ancient wisdom offers a great chance to keep my crew safe."

What have you been reading?

Perhaps you are referring to me Is Mise.

Personally I would much prefer to see that candidate with 25% of the vote elected, if he had the most votes, than someone with only 15% of the vote who received more preferences, but only because voters were forced to give them to someone by law.

Queensland offered alternate preferences or just vote one years ago. Most I know chose the just vote one choice. At least your vote can't elect someone you definitely did not wan that way.

is mise you baffle me! do you truly think you need 50 percent to be elected?
Preferences counted will determine who wins that seat
My target was the chook pen
micro parties won seats by preference Anning got 19 first preference votes,preferences put the fool into the chook pen
This country has had many Annings, from PUP and one nation elected then changing party,s is that fair to the voters who put them there
One vote one value *ensures voters get the government they want*

Armchair Critic- I am fascinated by the great sailing ships, the ship building industry and the brave journeys they took such as those to Australia. I'm certain I'm not alone in this. They nailed together bits of wood and travelled 17,000kms. There are similar references in Moby Dick, Hornblower, Patrick O'Brian (Master and Commander), and in the stories of James Cook, Matthew Flinders, William Bligh, terrifying journies around South Africa and South America.

To Armchair Critic- Also using "allusion".

Belly,

"is mise you baffle me! do you truly think you need 50 percent to be elected?"

Yes, that's why we have preferential voting, if no one gets 50% plus on the first count then preferences are distributed until some contender gets enough voters who PREFER him/her to all the others.

You keep going back to the lower house mate
Do you not see by and large the two majors get most seats there
IF we had one vote one value in the chook pens we would have few if any Ac/ONE NATION/ and micro party,s
Reforms that have been done will see a far different senate this time

Canem Malum if you are interested in information & the experiences of the great days of commercial sail, track down a copy of Francis Chichester's "Along the Clipper Way". It is a collection of stories by dozens of sailors from the days of sailing ships.

He found all this stuff when he was researching for his single handed circumnavigation in his yacht Gipsy Moth. The yacht named to remember his earlier circumnavigation in a Gipsy Moth biplane.

I read it when I was planning my own bit of sailing around the Pacific, & was fascinated at the experiences & hardship overcome by those sailors. It is the best reference I found to individual experiences from those days.

One fascinating story I found was of a ship leaving New Castle NSW with a cargo of coal for Adelaide. After spending months trying to beat to windward against the roaring 40s cross the bight, the skipper ported the helm as they say, & sailed east about, arriving in Adelaide from the west some 600 days out of New Castle, sailing out of the record of missing ships.

When I was sailing sat nav was way out of the reach of private yachties, & most radios were good for only a couple of hundred miles, so many yachties sailed out of the "Missing" lists.

Thanks Hasbeen- If you recommend it I'll have to have a look at Francis Chichester's "Along the Clipper Way". Books are like gold for those that can see.

Hasbeen,

Just to stay OT for a bit longer; my paternal grandfather was a helmsman of some note, mainly for his great strength; my uncle told me of a trip from Port Macquarrie to Sydney on a coastal steamer when it was so rough that all hands, (except the engineer and the stoker), and the passengers were on the bridge.
His father took the wheel at the captains request and he had two seamen to help.

He'd learned his trade before the mast and went to sea when he was twelve, in 1870.

I'm with you in admiration for the men of sail, I've owned two small yachts and sailed as a seaman on the "Our Svanen" when she was a sail training vessel.
I was never aloft in a blow but ordinary conditions at sea are thrilling (if that' the word!!) enough.

Belly,

"Preferential voting for the House of Representatives is designed to secure the election of one candidate with a majority of votes. If no candidate receives more than 50 per cent of first preference votes, the next preferences of the voters for the least successful candidates are distributed until one candidate emerges with a majority of votes.

Proportional representation voting, as used in the Senate, is designed to secure the election of several candidates in each state (twelve in the case of a double dissolution, six in the case of a regular half-Senate election) each of whom has obtained a number of votes equal to or exceeding a required quota (or proportion of votes) necessary for election. The quota is obtained by dividing the total number of formal votes by one more than the number of candidates to be elected, and adding one to the result. Thus, if the total of formal votes in a state at an election for six senators is 700 000, the quota is 100 001. That is, a candidate will need to win at least 100 001 votes to be elected.

Candidates receiving votes in excess of the quota, which is a proportion rather than a majority of the total vote, have their surplus votes distributed according to their electors’ ranking of preferences. If all the positions have not then been filled by candidates obtaining quotas by this means, then the next preferences of the voters for the least successful candidates are distributed, until all vacancies are filled by candidates obtaining quotas. The end result is a constituency with several candidates elected, each representing a proportion or quota of the total vote."
http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/briefs/brief01

That's our system and it beats First Past the Post hands down and is the reason that the ALP got rid of FPTP; one of "Doc" Evatt's great successes.

is mise you go over ground we both already know
Think, if, as it is in NSW state elections, you only need vote one, is it not clear the first past the post winner would have more votes than any one
Then the chook pen, standing at pre poll,working at the election day booths
This question is asked [you can if you wish number all squares in the lower house]
What Happened to my preference in the upper house
I have never truly been able to answer
Why must I and you, in federal elections, number all squares?
In the upper house why must I let my party [if I just put one above the line] tell me who I preference
Will you be content if a LABOR/GREENS/INDEPENDENT group control the Senate but not the lower house/

Belly,

"Will you be content if a LABOR/GREENS/INDEPENDENT group control the Senate but not the lower house/"

Yes, because that way there is a check on what the Government can do.

Do you think that the "Doc", with all of his experience of public and judicial life was not doing his best for Australia?

Never [even if it is painful post NSW election] going to think other than elected government has a right to govern without being blackmailed by the chook pen

Belly,

The elected government is bound by the Constitution and the Law same as everyone else, get used to Democracy.

no insult intended is mise it is my view, clearly, you have nothing to offer on this subject and some understanding would help
On starting this thread, until rescued by loudmouth, had the feeling I was talking to myself
That first few posts saw an optimistic Belly thinking his side had a chance
Not crying, but hurting, badly, we lost it ourselves
That tape, the one our leader, months before the election, was heard saying Chinese are taking our jobs
Well yes kept, hidden, until it could be used, but what a tosser!
yes I hurt, but at times like this denial is an enemy, only knowing the truth and acting on it will help, that sugar bag? in my mind tossed it of a bridge a week ago, still wriggling

http://www.smh.com.au/national/hanson-s-faithful-jump-into-palmer-s-camp-20190404-p51az0.html
Realy? a vote for either of these two failures is a vote taken from the LNP

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-05/antony-green-nsw-upper-house-legislative-council-balance/10974364
ok the thread has run its race
But in this link we may find a shadow of what the Senate will look like in a few months
NSW has given a forum, with parliamentary privilege, two at least two margin people/parties
And made the job of a clearly elected government difficult
iS THAT DEMOCRACY?
Will it serve the interests of voters who would never, on both sides,consider voting for such a these
Only supporters of the two will find nothing wrong with this, NSW may, at some future date, be held to ransom by people it never wanted to have power

Belly,

The NSW Legislative Council is a House of Review, it's job is to make the Government sit up and take notice.

If it makes life harder for the Government then that is usually only because the Government has not done its homework and tried to rush through legislation, often not thinking of the full consequences of such legislation.

Is Mise sorry old mate but never agree with you on that
Shooters party has already blackmailed the conservative government
Think,strongly,Both majors should work together when possible
And make the chook pen work
While working out reform [three year terms in step with lowerhouse]
or abolish them is the way forward

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-12/nsw-election-results-mean-nervous-wait-for-david-leyonhjelm/10996526
Worth opening a dead thread to post the next to full upper house results
Found them interesting and it,for me at least, showed some extremes did not do all that well