Arthur Chrenkoff writes today (Spectator) that “It’s easy being hot for socialism or communism when you actually have a very little idea of what it is and what it did throughout the twentieth century”.

He is referring to millenials, the 63% of Australian university students who would make their baby boomer grandparents blush in their “enthusiasm for collectivism”. These millennials, he says, can't remember very much, nor do they learn very much; they are the “most woefully undereducated and miseducated generation in a very long time”. A “barely literate cohort” not mentally equipped to learn about the real world.

There is lot more well-deserved rubbishing of Gen Y in this piece, which closes with the comment: “A hell of a lot of suckers have been born since 1989”.

Well worth a read in The Spectator or the author's blog, 'The Daily Chrenk, which is not paywalled.

ttbn,
Well stated argument & very accurate to fact !

socialism is man centred stupidity that always ends in disaster. History has had to be rewritten to hide this obvious fact.The problem lies in numerous Government funded employees, pollies and other members of the swamp gaining much from the system. Lawyers and journalist are among the biggest winners. Look at the over bloated over paid abc journalist paid large sums to push their disgusting feminist Marxist dogmas. Look also at the number of fingers in tax payer money via the renewable scam.

socialism is man centred stupidity that always ends in disaster.
runner,
yet another great factual statement, are you & ttbn on high ? :-)

Dear individual,

Well mate you might think of them as Gods but I certainly don't.

Socialism created our Medicare. Hyper-capitalism keeps a universal health scheme from being instituted in the US.

Is such a socialistic program serving Australians better than the lack of one serving the Yanks?

Steele Redux,
You forget what Health Service was like before Medicare !

certainly more money spent on education has led to dumber people. Can only be denied by the blind.

The supply of pharmaceuticals in the States suffers from a number of anti free market forces. They need someone like Teddy Roosevelt to kick some heads in Congress, not Obamacare.

As an example, for over six years I have self-medicated with medical over-site for moderate to severe psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis with an unsubsidised industrial chemical that costs me a bit under $2US per year. The chemical has been the active agent used as a first line systemic treatment in Germany for nearly twenty-five years with demonstrated efficacy and safety. I tell my story on US psoriasis forums not to encourage people to copy me but to make the point that if I can get rid of over 99% of my disease as I have, then it may be of value having the chemical available as a pharmaceutical product managed by dermatologists in the States. As a managed pharmaceutical it can give an excellent outcome for over 30% of patients, which would shake up the market. It is a challenging argument to conduct, but I will persevere.

From my point of view, socialised medicine is whinging about how more of other people's money should be spent on you.

Hooray for Medicare. But the socialism that is creeping up on us has very little in common with the politics of Gough Whitlam and Bob Hawke, or even Bill Shorten. It is the sort of all encompassing Marxism that is interested in control of the people it rules, not about its health and well-being. Nothing like it has ever existed in Australia, and the people who think it's about equality and caring need to start swatting up on history and the damage it has done wherever it has existed.

It's sad beyond belief how some people will just never learn to think for themselves.
The more I read comments by those "socialists" & progressives" & "educated" & "deniers of history" the more I'm starting to believe in the prophecies of the Bible.

Question

Are the prophecies of the bible really prophecies?
Or are they 'Self-fulfilling prophecies'?

I mean - If Christians never stop banging on about 'When Jesus comes back' and 'Looking forward to it' / 'aren't worried' because they will apparently 'all be up in heaven with Jesus'

Is it really a prophecy or is it a self fulfilling one?
- In that they're setting about making it happen with 'it' always being at the forefront of their beliefs.

It being: 'The hope that Jesus returns in their lifetimes'...

...Like effing seriously?
You're all looking forward to Armageddon?
- And doing your part to 'will it into existence'?

Global nuclear war with the damn sky on fire?
No thanks, I oppose this type of thinking;
And I aint no sheep, you can take it and shove it.

- Mostly because I think global thermonuclear war probably won't work out too well for the vast majority of earths inhabitants -

Arthur Chrenkoff's article is at http://thedailychrenk.com/2019/02/19/socialism-millennial-religion/

IMO it is a rather lazy article. He doesn't even bother to find out what the younger generations even mean by "socialism". Instead he makes idiotic assumptions about the kind of socialism they want.

In reality, socialism is (like capitalism) a broad range of features from which we can pick and choose. The historical evils committed in the name of socialism are largely irrelevant - those who consider them to be an intrinsic part of socialism conveniently forget the socialism of Western Europe!

Finally, making cheap shots at millennial (trying to pass off Americans' longstanding ignorance of world history/geopolitics as a millennial thing, and also a title scurrilously accusing them of treating economic philosophy as a religion) may fool other conservatives, but it exposes a lack of interest in the truth.

Are the prophecies of the bible really prophecies?
Or are they 'Self-fulfilling prophecies'?
Armchair Critic,
Well, you really can not deny that the stupidity of people in authority has reached record levels.
Greed & opportunism are also reaching new heights. Dug abuse & morals are totally derailed.
Things aren't looking very bright for the next few years said Hanrahan !

AC,

To your questions, who knows? But, there seems to be proof of the ‘as you sow so shall you reap’ warning if the downward plunge in Western civilisation is an accurate indicator. We are now starting to reap the 'rewards’ of the rot in morality, the disobedience, and the disrespect for experience and history that was sown in the sixties

In the late 60's I was really worried we get what we have today !

I wouldn't boast too much about our "Socialism created Medicare" Steely.

After waiting 6 years for my knee replacement, it was programed for tomorrow, 22/2/2019.

Guess what, for the second time it was cancelled at the last minute.

You know, I am starting to think our health system just might be run by bureaucrats.

How about waiting 4 years for a replacement Medicare card then be asked to make a new application & then receive two Medicare Cards in one day & three days later receive an interim card.
Bureaucrats anyone ?

For an excellent philosophical commentary on this subject, I highly recommend:

https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2019/02/culture-society-and-the-erosion-of-both/

Yes, yes, it's in Quadrant, but at least see what the writer is on about, and whether or not he has Mae a strong case.

Disclaimer: the author is a good friend. I was paid nothing to make this recommendation and flown and accommodated nowhere.

Joe

Hasbeen,

I hope you don't have to wait much longer, you poor old bugger; I feel for you, having got Old Arthur in every joint BUT my knees. Fish oil helps my knees, but nothing else - it's all hot packs and pain killers for the rest.

I'm all for health care for everyone, but like all public shows, the health departments are run by socialists who are all power and no responsibility: they know how to nationalise and tax to pay for stuff, but cannot operate or run anything properly; it's just not in their genes.

Dear Hasbeen,

Your complaint is with how the system is operating not the philosophy which implemented it. I do hope you wouldn't want us to go down the US path where the highest cause of bankruptcy in that country is medical bills?

It is interesting that one of the most rightwing state governments, Queensland, was able to enjoy not only a free medical system but one that also included dental, something Medicare doesn't. Why do you think that was?

Dear individual,

Really mate? If that is your biggest complaint then you have it pretty good. Our great 'socialist' experiment prevents this kind of thing blighting our citizens;

http://www.snopes.com/fact-check/alex-smith-died-couldnt-afford-insulin/

Dear fester,

With respect for reasons like the link above you can blow any suggestion that it is thwarted capitalism that has produced the diabolical inequities in the US health system right out your arse.

Our great 'socialist' experiment prevents this kind of thing blighting our citizens;
Steele redux,
Exactly Not ! This where your experiment is heading !

"It is interesting that one of the most rightwing state governments, Queensland, was able to enjoy not only a free medical system but one that also included dental, something Medicare doesn't. Why do you think that was?"

Because the 'rightwing state government' you're referring to in QLD is the Labor Party?

That was the Joh Govt & when Labor got in it started to charge. Now were paying up front & then we're told it's free !

GenY...
Yes exactly;
WHY?

Steele,

There are plenty more dying in Venezuela for want of insulin, and in the days of the Soviet Union health care was almost non-existent.

Had Alec lived near the Mexican border and been able to cross it he could have bought his insulin for about 10% of the price he was paying with insurance. Allowing people like Alec to purchase insulin from Mexico (or any other cheap and reliable source) and have it delivered to them where ever they may live is the capitalist essence of a free market. That is not happening at present in the US.

Hilary's socialist reveal lying as part of their dna.

Steele,

Were I a type 1 diabetic I would also source some BCG vaccine and give myself a few vaccinations to see if it could help me.

https://www.t1international.com/blog/2018/10/18/bcg-vaccine-safe-and-affordable-treatment-type-1-diabetes/

Of course, I would be doing a bit more research before taking such action. Here also is the article about buying drugs in Mexico:

https://www.t1international.com/blog/2018/08/16/crossing-borders-afford-insulin/

Sitting back and whinging like a self-entitled potato is the kind of attitude that socialism engenders.

Steely, "Your complaint is with how the system is operating not the philosophy which implemented it. I do hope you wouldn't want us to go down the US path where the highest cause of bankruptcy in that country is medical bills?"

The cost of offering full medical treatment is way beyond our capacity to supply, so the system is a fraud. We would be better off with the UA system, as we would not be given false hope of effective treatment when needed.

No steely it is with a ridiculous system that we just can't afford. Some may benefit, but most intelligent people would be better off not paying the huge cost of socialist medicine through their taxes, & paying their own way when required.

Our system cons people into believing the public system will cover them, then doesn't. At the same time it spends billions on extreme medicine on a limited number of more interesting/exciting cases, exhausting the kitty for the more useful treatment of "normal" problems.

We have a large number of people around here, unemployable due to back problems. They have been effectively told to go away, as they are not worth operating on/ or can't be fitted into the schedule.

If I had been told up front that resources are limited & there was more value in fixing younger people of working age, I could accept that. What I can't accept is the total bulldust that I will receive prompt treatment, then never do.

Years ago whilst talking with the crew of a Flying Doctor plane I asked how much they gave towards the organisation. Blank looks were the answer. I then asked if they donated a couple of hours of their time every now & then but again blank looks.
Some health professionals get so much pay they could easily donate a couple of hours a week to keep costs down & many in administration could also.

Posted by Loudmouth, Thursday, 21 February 2019 10:56:21 AM

For an excellent philosophical commentary on this subject, I highly recommend:

https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2019/02/culture-society-and-the-erosion-of-both/

Yes, yes, it's in Quadrant, but at least see what the writer is on about, and whether or not he has Mae a strong case.

Disclaimer: the author is a good friend. I was paid nothing to make this recommendation and flown and accommodated nowhere.

Joe

Answer- Good article Joe/ Loudmouth. Kudos. Thank your friend for me. Jody seems to make interesting comments too.

Socialism is like betting. You waste more than you gain !

I am pleased to say that most of my children and their friends are conservatives.
They believe in the rule of law and the rights of the individual.

I have visited Russia during the Socialist era and my observations were that that system can never work.

The utopian GenY who thinks socialism is hot obviously have not heard of history.
I watched as starving elderly people begged outside churches in Russia.
When I asked my "escort"a security service operative why they were begging. The operative said"Oh they are outside the system."
The system means people who volunteer from school children to workers and aged pensioners pick cabbages at the weekend in freezing conditions or work free for the state in their spare time.
I would love to see the GenY socialists volunteering working in a factory for the common good.

The utopian GenY who thinks socialism is hot, is merely a useful idiot indoctrinated at University to stand against nationalism in support of globalism.
They are merely a tool whose youthful rebellious nature is subverted and used in order to get from one place to another.

I enjoy watching Vladimir Jaffe, a refugee from the USSR who made good in the USA, interviewing political radicals about their beliefs. Unfortunately Vladimir seems to have been blackballed, with the indoctrinated ignoring him or telling him to turn off his camera. Sad to see brainwashed people in a cult, but who am I to tell people how to be happy?

Dear Brock,

Why are you conflating a communist regime with socialist countries? The Scandinavian countries are deemed socialist with high taxes and correspondingly high levels of state services for their citizens. It is almost universally agree they are successful countries.

The homelessness in the USA even in wealthy states like California is out of control. If you had been there recently you would have experienced begging on an endemic scale.

That is what a hyper-capitalistic society like the USA produces. Not only that to manage their system involves putting that highest ratio of their citizens behind bars in the world, just to keep the whole thing from collapsing.

How about getting a bit more fair dinkum in your critique of socialism and let's have a proper debate.

In reply to Individual. You forget that most people paid a few dollars a week for private health cover before Medicare.
Now taxpayers are paying through taxes and the Medicare levy much more than before towards Medicare and the army of government officials who administer the scheme.

Dear Brock,

you are at it again I'm afraid.

You write;

“In reply to Individual. You forget that most people paid a few dollars a week for private health cover before Medicare.
Now taxpayers are paying through taxes and the Medicare levy much more than before towards Medicare and the army of government officials who administer the scheme.”

Rubbish I'm afraid. Insurance companies have been predatory since time immemorial. The insane hikes by them far outstripping inflation has been a feature in the Australian system, most predominately through the period when we started shelling out a 30% rebate for private insurance.

One of the ideas of bringing in a universal health system was to be able to get people away from having to deal with predatory, discriminatory and profiteering insurance companies. In the UK and the rest of Europe they managed to do just that with private insurance rates less that 4%.

Here the klaxons ring out with dismay and desperation if the rate drops to under 40% causing vast amounts of public money being shovelled toward rapacious insurance companies in the form of rebates and age discriminating hikes in premiums being legislated, just to stave off the touted imminent collapse of the system.

And we all buy into this idiotic narrative. Why?

"How about getting a bit more fair dinkum in your critique of socialism and let's have a proper debate."

I reckon I could take you up on that offer SteeleRedux, and win.
- If I could be bothered -

I believe that neither Socialism nor Capitalism are flawless systems and that the best way forward is a combination of both.

That said, my argument firstly is in support of socialist base level standards of Healthcare, Education, and even Employment - for all Australians;
- So that more people are able to take part in and gain the benefits of Capitalism.

Capitalism is a better system because it rewards skills and merit and a willingness to work and build something for yourself.
- And we can't go to the stars without a system that rewards merit.

Capitalism gives the freedom to 'choose your own adventure' and 'achieve your dreams' if you work at it;
- But you must accept the consequences of your own choices as well.

Socialism leads to Communism (Socialism at the barrel of a gun)
- And Communism leads to starvation and genocide.

There... done, no debate necessary.

I believe that neither Socialism nor Capitalism are flawless systems and that the best way forward is a combination of both.
Armchair Critic,
Because average people are flawed so no system will ever work !
How anyone can ever claim we're getting something for "free" from a Govt is beyond me.
The Govt gets everything for "free" from us taxpayers !

Dear AC,

Not going to unpack all that I'm afraid, you do seem to be all over the shop on this.

However perhaps we can frame it this way, socialism balances or humanises systems which would otherwise be entirely guided by the 'invisible hand of the market'.

Capitalism creates but also concentrates wealth. Socialism addresses the normal excesses of capitalism usually found in the excessively poor and the excessively wealthy.

A wise government attempts to get that balance right, to keep at bay those who would weaken the system through over the top advocates at either end.

The calls for massive tax cuts compete with calls for increases in welfare spending. Sometimes they are intertwined as in the case of franking credits or negatively geared properties.

How does that take sit with you?

Why must any act of welfare or social justice be attributed to Socialism? How about attributing them to other things such as a sense of humanity or Christian charity? Both have been around much longer. Where all the kindness and charity are desperately needed is in socialist regimes, yet socialists are in denial about the humanitarian horrors of the creed and seem to think that prosperous capitalist countries require the socialist remedy. No thank you, Steele.

Just read this in the Pacific Monthly of 16 July 1965 Editorial "Samoa News".

"They (the teenagers) might be right that they are receiving better education nowadays which is very good, and their parents are fooled by them, but as long as they don't know the meaning of the rule of law, and they don't have any respect for it, then the education they are receiving now is worthless".

Hey Steele Redux,
No complaints here, everything seems quite reasonable.
- We can call it a tie.

Benjamin Franklin was apparently Economically Liberal but believed in basic health care so that workers would be more stable and productive.

The problems with Socialism are complex- the father of the New Left was Marcuse who was a Trotskyite/ New Freudian. Socialism uses Social Liberalism to achieve Communism. Social Liberalism says the small groups of gays have equal rights to the large group of non-gays- it conflates possibility with probability- but what can you expect of the mathematics of social science. Socialism isn't democratic but neither is Communism. Social Liberalism is a way of causing Trotsky's Permanent Revolution- of dividing the people against themselves- to create a disfunctional society- so the communists can create a new world order. The implementation of Socialism in Scandinavian countries according to many isn't Socialist. See below based on a Google search ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

http://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/

http://thefederalist.com/2015/08/11/scandinavia-isnt-a-socialist-paradise/

http://bongino.com/does-socialism-work-in-scandinavia-part-1/

Communism and Trotskyism and Socialism envisages the world as becoming one without cultures- the class warfare argument- but Scandinavian countries have apparently been historically fairly Monoculturally Lutheran in contrast with Multicultural Multi-religious Multi-Sexual Western Policies.

Not sure why the Social Libertarians are pushing the idea of a Socialist Scandinavia.

so that workers would be more stable and productive.
Canem Malum,
When you look at the image fad of late makes it quite clear that physical health alone is just not enough !
What use is a physically fit looking human when the body & mind are drugged to the eyeballs ?
That's the dilemma we're facing.

In a recent CIS poll, 58% of Australian millennials had a favourable view of socialism, and only 18% had an unfavorable one.

In New Zealand, the far too young and naive PM declared capitalism a “blatant failure” despite the fact that NZ had, at least before she cast her toxicity over the country, low unemployment, robust growth, and a budget SURPLUS.

Young people cannot be all be bad on purpose. It must be their lack of historical education and general ignorance thanks to incompetent or disinterested parents.

Ttbn,

Yes, all universities should be teaching courses in 'The History of Socialist Societies, 1871-2019', with a focus on how quickly their practice diverged from their theory, and

Starting with the Paris Commune (or can we go back to the French Revolution of 1789 ?), and running through the 1905 Russian revolution, the 1917 revolutions, the post-WW I revolutions in Germany and Hungary, etc.

Going on to the various communist uprisings in China in the 1920s, and the ensuing civl war; the post-WW II communist take-overs in eastern Europe and China; the various African travesties in PR Congo, Benin, Ethiopia, Tanzania, Angola, Mozambique, etc., and moving onto Vietnam, Cuba, Cambodia, and now Venezuela.

Could any of them be described as a socialist success ? Hundreds and hundreds of years of combined experience, and how many of those societies have come through without using the execution squads and labour camps ? I'd suggest: none. All frauds.

I used to be a bit partial to Vietnam, but got to know a bloke who had been a trainee officer in the old RVN army, the losers: he was put to work for twelve years planting coffee trees up in the highlands; his diet was salty rice, deliberately too salty. So I wonder does sadism have an integral part to play in socialism ? Is mass execution and brutal treatment a necessary component in bringing about the workers' paradise ? If human nature is malleable as Marx proposed, then why not try to persuade people to 'improve' their nature rather than machine-gun them ? Or starve them by the millions in gulags ?

Hundreds of years of failure: shouldn't our young people be taught that at universities ? That there should be something better than rapacious capitalism (cf. Steele) and bankrupt socialism (cf. Loudmouth) ? That may be the historic task for this next generation of concerned young people.

Joe

'In a recent CIS poll, 58% of Australian millennials had a favourable view of socialism, and only 18% had an unfavorable one.'

yeah ttbn we all want ot believe

-we are morally superior even when we are totally immoral
-we all deserve something even know others have worked for it
-that the blame for all our ills are on previous generations not ourselves
-that the Government should provide everything free and only the 'rich' pay tax
- that to be intelligent you must agree with hopelessy flawed narratives (eg man made gw)

with so many fatherless kids and totally dumbed down professors and teachers, with a totally fake bunch of journalist its probably surprising the figures are higher in favour of such poison.

Question; Anyone ever wondered why the Australian Constitution is not taught in our schools ?

Answer; So that the ignorant first-time voters always vote Labor.

Posted by individual, Monday, 25 February 2019 6:58:49 AM

When you look at the image fad of late makes it quite clear that physical health alone is just not enough !
What use is a physically fit looking human when the body & mind are drugged to the eyeballs ?
That's the dilemma we're facing.

Answer- I agree Individual we do face a number of difficult paradoxes.
I'm unsure whether you're referring to drug abuse or perhaps to use medical drugs inappropriately. We can't solve the worlds problems though- Joseph Nye believed in using Soft Power- setting a good example- Ayn Rand/ Nietzsche indicated similar with their examples of the self made man. If someone insists on doing harm to themselves there isn't much that anyone can do to help them- it's the same with countries that do themselves harm. Virtuous behavior needs to be rewarded relative to corruption- usually governed by nature though many of our systems aren't found in nature. Time corrects many things- hopefully we survive long enough to see our faults- and correct them.