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The Forum > General Discussion > the Mathematics of Australian politics

the Mathematics of Australian politics

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Paul.

"The principle of one vote one value, should be up held at all times."

That's not a principle, that's an un-principle, if you mean FPTP but if you mean it as applied to the Australian voting system then I'm all for it.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 9 February 2019 4:01:08 PM
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is mise please help
I need you to tell me how one vote one value differs from first pqast the post
No distribution of preferences
So one vote one value see,s my vote for one person
If that person get just 23 percent in a field of five others, but is ahead of the rest he wins
How is first past the post different
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 10 February 2019 7:03:28 AM
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Hi Belly,

I much prefer preferential voting to first past the post. With FPP even without manipulation the winner could be elected with a very small percentage vote. To give you an example there are 10 candidates 'A to J' and 101 voters. A scores 11, votes B to J, 10 votes each. A is elected with 10.9% of the vote. There is no option to indicate 90 votes under no circumstances wanted 'Á' elected.

Manipulation of FPP; There are two serious candidates for election P and B, there is 100 voters. P has done his sums carefully and knows he has 49 votes in his pocket, but B has 51. What does P do, he gets his good mate I to nominate. I campaigns with the same platform as B.
P tells voters under no circumstances vote for B or I. I is very unpopular, but he's good for 3 votes. Look P wins with 49 votes to B's 48, I was a distant last with 3 votes.

A system that is harder to manipulate and fairer than preferential or FPP voting. Is giving the voters an optional number of positive votes and a unlimited number of negative votes. In that way its much harder for micro candidates to rally support amount themselves and with a little support from one of the big guys to get elected. Its also harder for the big parties to run stooge candidates to given them that bit of extra support.

cont
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 10 February 2019 9:18:26 AM
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cont

Simply put, a Senate vote with 6 to be elected, Labor has 2, Liberal 2, Greens 1. The contentious position is who gets number 6. One Nation after gathering preferences from the micros still only has a part quota, they need the residual Liberal preferences to get elected, over Labor's number 3. However the bulk of Liberals, the small 'l' Liberal voters have been indifferent towards Labor, not giving them a positive or negative, but they are particularly antagonistic towards One Nation giving them negative votes, they don't want these people elected. Greens have give a strong positive to Labor and an equally strong negative to One Nation. The upshot is Labor's number 3 takes position 6 or, could be Liberals number 3 or Greens number 2, but unlikely. Certainly it will not be One Nations lead candidate. The people really have spoken.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 10 February 2019 9:20:34 AM
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Well hands up, I admit it, my concern is two many very small party's are about
Some voters waste the vote on them, believe it or not some of them, fail to understand they in fact via preference, vote for one of the big two
Chook Pen senate, very very long ago, stopped being the states house
Micro party's got seats on micro votes
Even only 19 in the case of a one nation tin hat person
Eliminating that, in my view is worth doing
A future small party can if its policy's suit, still become the government
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 10 February 2019 10:29:18 AM
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Hi Belly,

There are far more democratic models than the model Australia has adopted. The big two will each remain a minority within the Senate for some time to come. The fact is two-thirds of Australian want one or the other of the big two, Labor or Coalition. But and its a big BUT, one-third prefer someone else.

Lamenting the "injustice" of not obtaining a majority in the Senate should not be the priority of Labor or the Coalition. Their priority should be to do some soul searching and find out why so few Australians are willing to vote for them. Its not the voters who are getting it wrong, its the major parties. For too long both parties have treated the voters with a degree of contempt, only a secondary consideration at best. Collectively the big guys were believing "no matter what I do to them (the voters), they will always tick my box come election day". How wrong they were.

Just on the up coming election, good to see Labor still has a commanding lead in the latest 'Newspoll' 53/47. The only worrying aspect is Bill trails Scum O' as preferred PM. It should be of concern to us all, except for the die-hard's from the dark side, who are going down with the ship anyway.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 11 February 2019 6:28:04 AM
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