Frightening moment angry mob of 'Invasion Day' protesters attack a man draped in an Australian flag - before police form a human shield to protect him

An angry mob of protesters calling for Australia Day to be abolished appeared to attack a flag-wearing nationalist during ugly clashes in Melbourne on Saturday.

The city was fraught as 5,000 indigenous people and their supporters confronted around 100 alt-right nationalists holding a counter demonstration.

As tensions came to a head, a protester wearing an Australian flag around his shoulders appeared to be set upon.

Footage from the demonstration appeared to show him being dragged across the concrete by several 'Invasion Day' protesters.

The man, believed to be part of anti-Islam group The United Patriots Front, was then escorted away from the group by police officers.

He told 7 News Melbourne: 'They got triggered and upset that I was standing on Australian Day holding my flag.'

From there, they marched towards the Yarra River, chanting: 'Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.'

They say it is wrong to celebrate Australia Day on the day the British settlers arrived at land inhabited by indigenous people and want the date changed.

A counter-protest mustered fewer than 100 participants who were shrouded in Australian flags at the steps of Federation Square.

One man was holding a placard reading: 'To defend my country was once called patriotism now it's called racism.'

At the foot of Federation Square, a pair of protesters clad in the Australian flag clashed with those marching from the northern end of the city, before they were pounced on by the throngs of police.

One of the men was dragged to the ground before being frog-marched off by police, another couple also told to move on by police shortly after.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6634953/Shocking-moment-angry-mob-Invasion-Day-protesters-attacks-far-right-nationalist.html

** Quote "The man, believed to be part of anti-Islam group The United Patriots Front," That comment by the author Charlie Moore is based on what NO facts it is just his thought, here we have one biased journalist trying to impress his bosses. **

To defend my country was once called patriotism now it's called racism.
PhilpS,
It's called racism only by the racists !

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/act/enough-s-enough-invasion-day-protesters-march-through-canberra-20190125-p50tr5.html

"Invasion Day march organiser Chris Tomlins said all Australians should learn about the country's tens of thousands of years of Indigenous occupation, so they could acknowledge the poor treatment Aboriginal people faced."

"While many Invasion Day protesters around the country called for Australia Day to be moved to a different date or be abolished entirely, Mr Tomlins said it was more important to change people's mindsets."

"He said if all Australians accepted the country's past, they could heal and celebrate together."

"I don’t think changing the date is going to help with anything," he said.

So the Invasion day protest organiser doesn't even believe in changing the date himself...

I'm sorry, but call me stupid, mis-informed, and a million other words of degradation if you must, but I'm not quite clear about all this hoo-haa about Australia Day.
Firstly, it must stay as it is.
Not because I say so, but because it is so.
Secondly, if the abo's want to call it 'Invasion Day', fine that's their prerogative.
But if they're going to barf on about ALL the bad things we have done to them, well! I ain't gonna stand for that, and if so then they just lost ALL their cred and have forfeited the right to say ANYTHING.
As well known comedian put it, 'What a fu&%king liberty'.
After all we have done and are doing for these ingrates, I am prepared to call them the interlopers and not us.
They may have been here for a long time, but they too came from another place, whether there was anyone here or not before them, we will never know and they are too self absorbed now to let on, even if they knew.
They have been treated so well in fact, that they feel they can go the whole 'ten yards', and gain control of this country, well I can tell you it won't be as they say, 'over MY dead body', because they have made their position quite clear and are demonstrating it by getting physical such as more and more demonstrations are revealing.
It's not bad enough we have to contend with the threat of Islam and it's extremists, we now have to look out for treachery from within by the abo's as well.
I still refuse to see ANY justification for ALL the benefits and money we are throwing at these ingrates, for absolutely no justification or reason.
And yet we still do.

//Firstly, it must stay as it is.
Not because I say so, but because it is so.//

So why didn't you care when they changed it 1988?

This Australia Day nonsense is now just plain stupid. 85% of Australians want it left alone, and both major parties say that Australia Days is the 26th of January, end of story! These objectors and demonstrators are just making bloody fools of themselves.

Toni, DUH, who knows what I thought back in 1988 and if your referring to the 'bludgers' holiday weekend, I couldn't give a flying fig.
That's all this place needs, more unproductive days.
Toni, why are you even bothered to comment?
It is a day of celebration, the birth of a Nation, the beginning of a very big deal.
If some abo ingrates are not happy with the free-bees and leg-ups their getting, for NO good reason, I for one will not facilitate them in their scammy attempts at further extortion of a very benevolent public and system.
If you cannot see what is clearly in front of you and for all to see, you are wearing biased glasses, get them corrected and you will see we are not the baddies here, they are.
So if they want to carry on like petulant children and denying the good the 'white fella' has done, and is still doing for them, then let them waste their time.
If it were me, I would let them go back to 'their' beloved land, take away all their benefits and handouts and encourage them to pursue their true passion, living off the land, because they have demonstrated beyond any doubt, that they do not possess the right to live amongst us, even with all our best efforts and money.
So I for one will not stand in their way and let them live happily back in the bush.
Oh and BTW, they are descendants of and come from Indonesia.
So finally we have a yardstick.
They are Indonesians who came down and 'invaded' Australia, so it's only fair, the Poms then turned up some time later and 'invaded', Australia.
But wait a minute, didn't they say that because there wasn't a war or anyone died, then it was called something else?
Can't recall, maybe you or someone out there can

//Toni, DUH, who knows what I thought back in 1988//

Well, you, of course... or at least, one would hope so.

Alcohol is a terrible drug.

Toni, come on old chap.
If that's the best you can come up with, or all you've got, for a come-back, then, well........nothing.
Toni, you have a much better grasp on history than I, could you look up what the abo's called it when the Poms first started settling Australia.
They said that because there was not a war, it was therefore not 'something'.
Can't for the life of me remember what.

liaam, WTF?

//Toni, you have a much better grasp on history than I//

Maybe, but I'm a much worse psychic. My grasp of history can't tell me what you were thinking in 1988.... only you know that.

Is there a reason you're being so coy?

The 100 or so Nazi's in Melbourne were attempting to provoke violence in their well established fashion. Lacking numbers and support these grubs rely on confrontation. I have in previous years took part in Invasion Day protests in Sydney, the marches there have been orderly, cooperating with authorities, and above all peaceful. Unlike anything you get when the Nazi goons turn up.

BTW, where was the rally permit of the 100 Nazi's as required by Victorian law.

Toni, no sorry I'm not trying to be coy.
I don't remember what I thought about Australia day back then, other than to imagine that changing the date so people could have another excuse to have another day off, would have seen me reach for the bucket, because that's what Australia needs; more holidays.
Toni, sorry my asking for info about the controversy about Australia day, was because there was debate about what to call the 'occupation' or the arrival of 'white man' here.
I vaguely remember it said that because there was not a war or no-one was killed then it was regarded as, X and not Y.
I was just hoping someone could remember the details of that debate or point, that's all.
I think it's relevant to present day discussions.

//I don't remember what I thought about Australia day back then//

Can't have been terribly important to you then. May I ask what's changed, and why you're so worked up about it 30 years on?

Most Australians who are quite happy with 26/1 don't even discuss it. People who want to argue with aboriginal-identifiers and Far Left loons are merely giving them oxygen to continue their naive rants. The date will not be changed, so why argue with idiots? Have none of you ever been in a group when someone has blurted out some point of view they wanted to test, or just get off their chest, only to be met with a deadly silence? Nobody says a word. The blurter looks stupid, and suffers embarassment and humiliation.

Not speaking. Not rising to the bait. These are powerful psychological weapons. Silence works. Making people feel like shite works. But, every Australia Day, someone brings up the imagined controversy, usually without provocation, giving entre to some lunatic lefty who wants the date changed; then it's on and on - boring drivel about a non-event. Pretty tedious in my opinion.

Toni, I think it's probably more like what ttbn says, it wasn't as 'in your face' back then, as it is today.
It's like the queers back then, we knew they were around but were never 'in your face', so they were left alone or ignored.
Not hated and vilified like today.
What's changed in both camps?
I think it has something to do with 'overreaching'.
It's one thing to suggest or ask for something, it's quite another when you demand it, and with malice.
These issues, today are being promoted by force and with physical confrontation.
I think that is the main detractor and dislike of todays abo's and queers.
They decided to get militant.
So it goes that even the best intentioned people will reject any form of violence and therefore those who perpetrate or promote that violence.

ALTRAV,

Bravo,

There are people these days who just love to stir the possum. As you suggest, these people were largely left alone with their differences or peculiarities; but now,with all the stuff that is ranked down our throats, we react. When I say ‘we’ I mean the vast majority who believe in democracy and the rule of law, not mob rule.

Normal people who once said nothing about queers, aborigine-identifiers, multiculturalism and all the other stuff, are now seriously pissed off by these things, thanks to the loud mouthed yobbos who think minorities have more rights than the majority.

But, there is no point arguing with idiots. Ignoring them is the best way to show them how pathetic and powerless they really are. It is ludicrous to allow the tail to wag the dog. It's ludicrous to encourage those people to keep pressing our buttons.

ttbn, I agree with you, but I must have a disease of some kind which does not allow me to shut up when I hear BS or distortions of the facts or truth.
I am 'triggered' by stupid, childish and totally unrealistic comments.
Can't help myself.
It must be that if I let those comments pass without some kind of response, I must feel as though I am agreeing with them, which is absolutely not the case.
There are many things I let 'pass' without comment, but even I have a limit.
I'm probably not as tolerant or casual about things as most people probably are.
Anyway, unfortunately for some, I will still be here challenging maggots and neuters, hopefully for some time yet, or I get bored or find some other distraction.

//Toni, I think it's probably more like what ttbn says, it wasn't as 'in your face' back then, as it is today.//

But it was the 'communists' in the Hawke Labor government who moved the date back in '88. I'd have thought that would have gotten right up your nose.

//It's like the queers back then (30 years ago), we knew they were around but were never 'in your face', so they were left alone or ignored.//

ALTRAV, again a bit of your revising of history. No gay bashing's and murders in 1988. Just like your forgetfulness on Toni's question. Then there is the absurdity about Indigenous people being so much better off under British rule. Post 26th January 1788, thousands of aboriginals died of European diseases or were starved, poisoned or shot.

ALTRAV,

Each to his own. I must admit that enjoy your no holds barred responses.

Paul, I can't comment on things that went on in 88', either because it was not 'in your face' or I was too busy 'building an empire'.
As for your trying to 'guilt trip' or 'virtue shame' me, it doesn't work with me.
Now to correct you.
If you are implying that the Poms did a culling program by 'intentionally' bating/spreading diseases which the abo's had no immunity to, then you should be ashamed of yourself to suggest such a thing.
So I don't believe you mean that.
What I think you mean is that the Poms brought their illnesses with them, and unfortunately, through no fault of their own and because the abo's had never been exposed to these illnesses before, they were not immune to them and naturally suffered the consequences.
No one set about to inflict the kind of genocide you and your mates imply or want everyone to believe.
Now as for YOUR absurd comment on trying to imply that the abo's have suffered since the 'white fella' settled here.
If your actually serious, you would be the most arrogant, ignorant, ungrateful so and so alive.
If you are an abo, shame on you.
The 'white fella' could not throw any more money at you if he tried, and I mean goods and services as well, as that equates to money as well.
Paul, watch your mouth because the bulk of Aussies are sick and tired of your kind of ungrateful rantings and accusations.
Instead of speaking through your other orifice, how about you actually look into how much the 'white fella' has done for the abo's.
Your continual BSing about how 'hard' they've had it is well overdue for binning, as we no longer care to hear it and in fact we are starting to think of retracting some of those benefits.
My solution to your perceived/implied problem, is to let the abo's go back to their beloved bush, they claim to be 'as one' with.
And because all that the 'white fella' has done has caused them pain and suffering, we don't want that.

//I can't comment on things that went on in 88', either because it was not 'in your face'//

Which I would take as an indicator that there were even fewer people asking that the date be changed in 1988. So despite the fact that hardly anybody wanted the date changed, the Labor government went ahead and changed it anyway, purely in the interests of progress. And despite your generally conservative views, you're fine with that bit of undemocratic progressivism.

In which case, I have to ask: would it really bother you that much if the incoming Labor government undemocratically switched it back to what it was, in the interests of tradition? And if so, why? Because I cannot, for the life of me, fathom why conservatives who are generally so in favour of the good old days and winding the clock back to about 1950, are adamant that we all embrace a Johnny-come-lately, Labor-endorsed, pro-multiculturalism, smoking-ceremony and welcome-to-country, vision of Australia day. It's weird.

we have a 'sorry' day, we had a national apology, loads of cash handed out. Is anyone stupid enough to believe changing Jan 26 would make any difference?

ALTRAV, you are sounding more and more like lL Duce with every post.

//Paul, watch your mouth because the bulk of Aussies are sick and tired of your kind of ungrateful rantings and accusations//

Are they, how would you know YOU WERE TO BUSY EMPIRE BUILDING. This guys a joke, is that what you tell the other old folks down at your retirement home.

New Zealand celebrates Waitangi Day. Pity for the original inhabitants who were killed and eaten by the Maori's.

runner, just for the hell of it and to stick it to those who keep pushing the 'poor downtrodden abo' line.
It is worth remembering that the abo's are actually Indonesians, and because they came down to Aus so long ago, who knows how many previous Aussie residents they killed as they 'invaded' Australia.
So apparently it now turns out they have been lying to us all this time, as they too are descendants of another country.
Soooooo, what do we have here then?
Well, well, well, it turns out the abo's have been living a lie and have been benefitting off that lie for a long, long time.
Hmmmmmm!
It seems that because of this revelation, we can safely ignore anymore BS by the abo's and their right to the land.
Their rightful land is Indonesia!
Oh and BTW Paul, if you don't have an actual and factual retort or response, don't sink into irrelevance, try to come up with a fact or two, well one would do.

//So apparently it now turns out they have been lying to us all this time, as they too are descendants of another country.//

//Their rightful land is Indonesia!//

By that logic, your rightful land is Italy.

Why don't you move back there? I think you'd probably like it a lot more than Australia, seeing as how all you ever do is whine and moan about our country.

//New Zealand celebrates Waitangi Day. Pity for the original inhabitants who were killed and eaten by the Maori's.// Aotearoa was not occupied by human beings when the Maori arrived. BTW few pakeha celebrate Waitangi Day all that much.

Where did you pull that lie out of, your arse or your bible, no matter same difference. If you had been a missionary to the South Seas, they might have put you in a pot and boiled you up. You seem to know as much about history as lL Duce, nothing.

Anyway Waitangi Day (6th Feb), I don't know where you are, but this year on Saturday 9th Feb we will be making our way to the Redcliffe Showgrounds north of Brisbane to celebrate Waitangi Day, It is a great day of cultural celebration, with song, dance, yummy food and lots more, so come along where ever you are, there will be a venue near you, and enjoy the day.

lL Duce, why do you use the insulting and disparaging term Abo in reference to a people who have done you no harm. They don't refer to you as a wog, now do they.

Toni, please be careful what you post THE EMPIRE might strike back.

ALTRAV,

"It is worth remembering that the abo's are actually Indonesians".

Now that is a statement that raises a few questions; could we have a reference, please?

Paul,

Strictly speaking, he didn't call them 'abos' as the possessive in his sentence renders it meaningless (just being pedantic, for the sake of).

//Now that is a statement that raises a few questions; could we have a reference, please?//

I believe he is talking about the recent single origin hypothesis (RSOH):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans

Although why he thinks that only Australian aboriginals, out of all the world's ethnic groups, should be identified on the basis of the countries (not that they were countries at the time, obviously) they migrated through rather than where they ended up settling is something of a mystery to me. And why he has singled out Indonesia rather any of the many other countries people migrating out of Africa would have had to pass through is also a mystery.

It seems to me that whilst he may be dimly aware of the RSOH, he hasn't really understood it.

//Toni, please be careful what you post THE EMPIRE might strike back.//

What's he gonna do, Paul? Cry on me?

ALTRAV, Ttbn- Yes- It's part of the communist strategy of "permanent revolution". But we can learn from their strategy- doesn't mean we have to use it. The communists have gone to war against western civilization in the form of diversity policy- mostly this means change- we now need to take the initiative and avoid the ambushes.

"Communists and Liberals are using change and community destruction to alienate the masses so they can control the world".

We want to protect the masses from the communist attacks as much as we can- we need to bring the alienated into our fold. We need to fight the root cause of the issues. Sometimes we need to strategically retreat from pointless skirmishes- to conserve our strength.

It's a difficult but noble life long cause. Good luck. Truth is on our side- but it's a "spy war".

If people don't fight for their interest they and their descendants will become effectively destroyed.

The world has too many people.

Dear Philip S,

So this character claimed “They got triggered and upset that I was standing on Australian Day holding my flag.”

Sorry mate but the bloke was a trolling and giving lip looking to get a reaction. Mission accomplished but no innocence there at all.

Dear ALTRAV,

We have been here before haven't we. Last time I turned this around and referred to you as an upstart wog with utter contempt for Australians you got your nose totally out of joint.

Ah here it is;

“This is not normally my style however since you are so keen on three latter labels, and I always endevour to return a conversation in the same manner it was delivered, let us try on a fresh framing of your logic, just for arguments sake of course.

I am completely clueless how on earth a bloody wog like yourself thinks they can call themselves Australian. Unless you have some Aboriginal blood in you or you or your ancestors fought for this country or you are at least 5th generation then you will always remain just a visiting wog with an inflated opinion of himself. Oh you might want to call yourself an Australian just to access our free healthcare and education, and you might have a pretty little bit of paper saying you are a citizen, and you might even claim to have been born here, but you aren't Australian really are you, you are just a wog. In fact you have a pretty low opinion of this country and its people don't you. I am getting so bloody sick of arrogant wannabe wogs like yourself trying to claim they are true Australians. It is utter BS. You come over here and within a generation you are claiming free services, provided in a good measure by the minerals dug from Aboriginal lands, like it is your right.”

So why on earth should we take any notice of the opinion of some upstart virtually fresh off the boat regarding our national holiday?

Paul, the word 'abo', might be disparaging to you and some others.
To me it's called expediency, as you will note, if you have been paying attention, that I abbreviate as a matter of course.
'Abo', 'wog', 'chink', 'kiwi', 'pom' and so on.
Sound familiar, I use common and historical terms such as those I grew up with.
Let me set the record straight and have it on the record once and for all, for all to note.
I do not use these titles to mock or denigrate.
I am a lazy person so to expedite, I try to abbreviate, such 'govt', 'pollies' and so on.
I hope this allays any concerns or disparaging thoughts generated by my style of writing.
If I want to abuse or denigrate someone, you've all witnessed what I mean, I don't resort to 'name calling' as a rule, I will just come out and abuse you, end of.
Toni,
Your right, my rightful land is Italy.
'Why don't I move back there'?
Well, DUH, let me see, oh yes, because I was 'born here'.
As for being 'dimly aware' of the RSOH, I am, if you take a 'mummy' look again at the information, you will find that they speak in ten's of thousands of years, long enough for a breed/race/type/kind of people to earn the the nationality of that country, even though it wasn't a country back then.
So if you don't want to call them Indonesians then call them what you like, but they still came from somewhere else and settled here.
Issy,
My reference is history itself, but for expediency just click on Toni's link.
It's a good starting point.

What was the date before 1988?

_______________________________________________________________

runner, are you referring to the moa? Or are you claiming there were prior human inhabitants that the rest of us have never heard of?

Steeley, I'll get to you in a minute.
Have a much more important thing to do than answer you right now.

Toni,

My own guess is that a great many of the Aboriginal Australian's ancestors came from India.
On my travels through that country, especially in the South, I have seen many locals who looked decidedly Aboriginal Australian to me and in Otty (of rack railway fame, among other things) I was about to speak to an Aboriginal bloke that I knew casually in Sydney, but when I got close he was speaking in Hindi and I realized that I'd made a mistake.

My old mate, Guboo Ted Thomas (a respected Elder of the Yuin people on the South Coast of NSW), went to India and locals would, at first meeting, always think that he was Indian.

Which proves nothing, of course, but Dingoes look a lot like the native dog of India (Indian pariah dog), and the Dingoes had to come from somewhere.

Dear ALTRAV,

You write;

"Have a much more important thing to do than answer you right now."

Hopefully it is arranging a return to the homeland.

Che liberazione!

G'day IS MISE...

I'll be buggered, mate. I must've had a severe flaw in my education, but it's the first time I've ever heard our indigenous people originated from India. I've always subscribed to the theory they've been here for at least ten thousand years. Therefore I never thought to explore their origins any further back than that.

I've tripped around the Sub-Continent a bit, and you're right, some, especially those in the south, even in West Bengal do have a close likeness to our full blood Aboriginals. Fascinating history lesson for me at least, thank you IS MISE.

Furthermore, your knowledge of English grammar is incredible, you've employed terms I've not heard since my school days? I know a little of your background, are you sure you weren't a school teacher at one time?

Steeley, I could not agree with you more, on your opening line, and to quote you;
"I am completely clueless"........
Yes you are, but take heart, I'm here to give you a few 'clues'.
First clue is I don't have to be anything but BORN HERE, to comply with the International terms of reference as to my being an Aussie, by birth, not by nature and demeanor or any other factor which you obviously gauge a persons 'nationality', by.
So old sock, anyone with half a clue knows that.
You are barking at shadows if you can't see what I've been saying forever, and that is, for example in my case, it is clear, even though my folks were wogs, and because I was born here, that describes me as an Aussie with Italian heritage, by your reasoning.
By my reasoning, I am an Aussie born wog with an Aussie passport.
See nothing could be simpler to understand, even for you.
Now as for ALL these benefits I am enjoying, I think you must have me confused with the abo's.
I/we, have always carried ourselves without ANY handouts and freebees from ANYONE.
You know this is true because we are a proud people and that's our downfall.
I/we have always had private health insurance, still do, at a cost of a few dollars short of $500 a month.
Never accessed and still don't or intend to avail myself of any govt handouts like the pension or whatever else there is going on out there.
Steeley, am I boring you?
Can you say the same about not being a burden on the Aussie economy?
Have you set yourself up from an early age to be self sufficient in retirement, Hmmmm?
Now listen to me you abo loving moron.
I have proven myself, head down bum up, lived to work and not worked to live and so on and so forth.
You cretin spewing out all that sh!t about abo's and abo land, you are amongst the lowest form of Aussie with YOUR arrogant smart arse attitude.

G'day, O Sung Wu,

No, mate, I was never a teacher but I had some very good teachers.

Re. India and the locals, here's a bit from The National Geographic,

"Genetic evidence suggests that just over 4 millennia ago a group of Indian travellers landed in Australia and stayed. The evidence emerged a few years ago after a group of Aboriginal men’s Y chromosomes matched with Y chromosomes typically found in Indian men. Up until now, the exact details, though, have been unclear.

But Irina Pugach from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology may have recently solved the thousand-year-old case. 4,000 years before the First Fleet landed on our fair shores, Indian adventurers had already settled and were accepted into the Indigenous Australian culture."
http://www.nationalgeographic.com.au/australia/four-thousand-years-ago-indians-landed-in-australia.aspx

G'day (again) IS MISE...You could've fooled me, apropos you've never taught a class in English? Seriously, that's most interesting. There's no doubt about it, the National Geographic digs around, and undertakes an enormous amount of scrupulous research before they publish or speak about anything.

A question of you if I may? Are the Indians renowned as seafarers and if so, explorers? My own minimal knowledge of the great explorers most came from England, France, Portugal and of course the Spanish. I'm not in any way discounting small exploratory groups, more overland treks of the type undertaken by 'Lewis & Clark' in the US. And Maco Polo following the 'silk routes' across Asia minor. Thanks, Mate.

Dear Is Mise,

You wrote;

“My own guess is that a great many of the Aboriginal Australian's ancestors came from India.”

But your own link shows how relatively recent the DNA incursion was. 4,000 years ago compared to archaeological evidence of over 50,000 years of habitation by aborigines.

The sampling for the study you quoted was “Purified DNA samples from 105 individuals from northwest Australia (Great Sandy Desert and Kimberley regions) derive from five locations: Balgo, Christmas Creek, Derby, Looma, and Turkey Creek.”.

Some of these individuals showing Indian DNA incursion which would make sense because of the location ie closest parts of Australia to India.

There is no way in the world though that the claim “that a great many of the Aboriginal Australian's ancestors came from India” can be derived from this study nor any other.

Aidan, it used to be that the day was celebrated on the closest weekend to the 26th, thereby taking off Monday making it a long weekend, an excuse to have another 'bludgers' holiday, and another non-productive day, as if we needed any more.
By chance, it happened to fall on the weekend this time, so of course, we had to make it a long weekend to accommodate the the 'hard working Aussies' and their 'I (don't) work to live' mantra.

Steeley, c'mon get grip man.
I know you don't want to believe it but these are facts and figures derived from experts that have been studying and researching this topic for a lot longer than you or I.
So it also blows the 50,000 to 60,000 year myth out of the water.
More like between four and ten.

not long back historians had the Indigeneous living in Australia for 10000 years, then 20000, then 40000 and now 60000? What a joke. Sounds like they have to continue to make up lies in order to fulfil the narrative justt like the evolutionist have done.

//Well, DUH, let me see, oh yes, because I was 'born here'.//

Well in that case so-called 'Indonesians' that are born here are just as Australian as you. QED.

//if you take a 'mummy' look again at the information, you will find that they speak in ten's of thousands of years, long enough for a breed/race/type/kind of people to earn the the nationality of that country, even though it wasn't a country back then.//

Yep, and the people who migrated from Africa via Indonesia to Australia have been settled here for approx. 6.5 ten thousand years, long enough to earn Australian nationality.

So why do you claim they're Indonesian?

//So if you don't want to call them Indonesians then call them what you like, but they still came from somewhere else and settled here.//

So did you. So did I. So did everybody in the entire country, because we all came from Africa originally.

//What was the date before 1988?//

The closest Monday to the 26th, thereby ensuring a long weekend every year like we enjoyed this year. It seems like the best arrangement to me... cut Australia day loose from its historical baggage, and just give people a long weekend to celebrate being Aussie in the manner they find most appropriate

Steele,

"There is no way in the world though that the claim “that a great many of the Aboriginal Australian's ancestors came from India” can be derived from this study nor any other"

In 4,000 years a fair estimate would be 133 generations of people, at, say, 30 years per generation, now as the number of ancestral positions (not necessarily separate ancestors) behind each individual is 1,048,576 in a mere 20 generations, then it is fair to say that a great many of the ancestors came from India.

//My own guess is that a great many of the Aboriginal Australian's ancestors came from India.//

Well, yeah. Although not directly, of course, they'd have come via Indonesia. All of this is well supported by the RSOH.

//Which proves nothing, of course, but Dingoes look a lot like the native dog of India (Indian pariah dog), and the Dingoes had to come from somewhere.//

Yeah, they came from up north as well. It is generally believed they came a lot later than the first human settlers, and it is little surprise that they closely resemble not only Indian pariah breeds but also pariah breeds from other parts of the world. I reckon that if you were to take a large selection of mongrel breeds to ensure a good diversity of canid genes and let them run feral for 5,000 years in an environment not dissimilar to prehistoric India/Australia/Africa/South America/Asia, you'd end up with a pariah breed remarkably similar to our dingo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingo

Dear ALTRAV,

You wrote;

“Steeley, c'mon get grip man.
I know you don't want to believe it but these are facts and figures derived from experts that have been studying and researching this topic for a lot longer than you or I.
So it also blows the 50,000 to 60,000 year myth out of the water.
More like between four and ten.”

I really don't know where to start. You are now being orders of magnitude more ignorant that your average setting of ineptitude my friend.

Unlike the summary article Philip S linked to which is for plebs like you to misunderstand and twist to your prevailing ideology I went to the study itself. Here it is;

http://www.pnas.org/content/110/5/1803#ref-5

Here is what it really says;

“In conclusion, our results suggest an ancient association between Australia, New Guinea, and the Mamanwa (a Negrito group from the Philippines), with a time of divergence of at least 35,000 y ago, implying a common origin but an early separation for these groups, and supporting the view that these populations represent the descendants of an early “southern migration route”. Strikingly, we also detect a signal of substantial gene flow between Indian and Australia populations before European contact. We estimate the date of this admixture to be 141 generations ago and suggest that this gene flow may be associated with the changes documented in the Australian archaeological record at about this time.”

Cont..

Cont..

As it turned out this study did not do its own sampling of the Aboriginal DNA but instead appeared to rely on that from a different study titled 'Peopling of Sahul: mtDNA Variation in Aboriginal Australian and Papua New Guinean Populations'
so I went to it as well;

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929707623349

It says “Paleovegetation change in Australia provides evidence that human immigrants arrived ∼60,000–65,000 years ago (Johnson et al. 1999; Miller et al. 1999). Furthermore, a human skeleton from Lake Mungo recently was dated, yielding an age of 62,000 years ± 6,000 years (Thorne et al. 1999).”

It also reflects; “Polymorphisms in the α-globin system have shown distinctive variation in PNG highland populations compared with northern Aboriginal Australian populations (Yenchitosomanus et al. 1985, 1986; Tsintsof et al. 1990), whereas central Australians shared similar haplotypes with PNG highland populations”

Which precisely makes my earlier point, the mixing of some Indian DNA in Northwest Australia is understandable if not expected but that it is not an unequivocal conclusion for the wider Aboriginal population.

None of these studies even hint at “blows the 50,000 to 60,000 year myth out of the water.”

And only the pig-ignorant would ever think they did.

Dear Is Mise,

There is little doubt that there should be DNA trails left in India by the various waves of movement of homo sapians to the region.

But you don't get to make the kind of broad statement, which has obviously confused our poor ALTRAV again, without getting pulled up.

Anyway why even bring it up? What do you think it proves?

//it used to be that the day was celebrated on the closest weekend to the 26th, thereby taking off Monday making it a long weekend, an excuse to have another 'bludgers' holiday, and another non-productive day, as if we needed any more.//

Ahh... right. See, the thing is, they didn't actually change the number of public holidays when they shifted the date. The 'bludgers', as you so charmingly refer to people who have jobs, didn't get another 'bludgers' holiday, or another day off. But back in the good old days, they had it scheduled on a date which suited everyone better.

Do you think employers like it when the 26th of January is a Wednesday? That one day off in the middle of the week suits nobody. Public holidays should be arranged to maximise productivity. Long weekends do that better than random days off.

//So it also blows the 50,000 to 60,000 year myth out of the water.
More like between four and ten.//

No, ALTRAV, we have found human remains in Australia at least four times older than your top estimate. And we know they're human because there are no other animals with bones that match ours, and we know that they're that old because they have been radioactively dated.

Now, at this point, you may be tempted to argue against radioactive dating. I know runner doesn't believe in it. But I do, because radioactive dating is more physics than archaeology, and if you want to argue the toss when it comes to physics then the gloves will come off.

So go on, ya big Jessie... make my day. Tell me there's no such thing as physics, and it's all done by magic elves. Go on, I dare you.

It's quite interesting to see the effort that the hangers-on put into protecting their own interests at the expense of those who really paid & are paying the price.

Toni,

"Do you think employers like it when the 26th of January is a Wednesday? That one day off in the middle of the week suits nobody. Public holidays should be arranged to maximise productivity. Long weekends do that better than random days off."

You have a point, Toni, and employers don't like it when it falls on a Tuesday or a Thursday either; a number of places that I have worked at would ask the staff and the workers if they wanted to take the intervening days off and usually gave the option of working, taking an unpaid day off or else taking a day from their annual leave.
This allowed the employers to be able to plan ahead and arrange the workload to suit the available workers.

Individual, do you mean the abo's?
Toni, OK I'll play along.
'There's no such thing as physics, and it's all done by magic elves'.
Now what?
Oh, I get it, that was a joke, Ha, Ha, No I don't get it, what have magic elves got to do with how old a skeleton is?
I think you must be following a different line of thinking, I rather prefer the 10,000 odd number, but if it's not then that was never the point.
The point was that the abo's are also 'blow-ins', as the joke goes, 'they came for a visit and never left'.
That must be why they're still here after however long they've been here.
As long as we're all agreed and clear on the teeny little fact that they came from somewhere else.
Wait a minute, I believe this is somewhat of a revelation.
WOW! That's amazing, did you know that, that applies to a great number of people here today.
And they weren't only Indians or Indonesians.
Well Toni, I think we've cleared that little myth up.
Thanks for the 'heads up'.

//As long as we're all agreed and clear on the teeny little fact that they came from somewhere else.//

Yep, but so did Italians. So by your logic, there's really no such thing as Italians. They're just blow-ins from North Africa.

But you claim to be Italian all the time, even though by your own arguments they can't possibly exist. You are, in fact, an African. Possibly even Sudanese, since it's in North Africa, although I think it more likely that you're Tunisian.

Individual, do you mean the abo's?
ALTRAV,
I'm referring to the average public servant who should be appreciative of having such good employment yet choose to neglect their responsibilities thus being part of the cause of so much dysfunction in our society.
ATO & particularly Centrelink really need sorting out. Financial institutions too are notorious in their callousness.

"I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you've earned, but not greed to want to take somebody else's money".
Thomas Sowell

Toni, please do not be so unkind to our dear friend, he is not, I repeat not, African. ALTRAV is in fact the the result of the bastardisation of the Romans by the Barbarians (not the rugby team) but the Goths and Vandals, a likeable bunch of chaps from the north or west, from somewhere. The lads, that's the Goths and Vandals, in about 455AD were on a Cooks tour of Europe, and decided to pop into Rome to see the ruins, unfortunately there were no ruins to be seen, so they manufactured some of their own. And in a spare moment they took some small liberties with the local lassies, wallah there is ALTRAV.

Although he may believe he is the reincarnation of Julius Caesar, the give way being he like Julie is an EMPIRE BUILDER, and the fact that he's just invested in a new pair of Roman sandals from K-Mart, also has taken to wearing a bed sheet, sorry toga. Proof in my book that ALTRAV is the reincarnation of JC if not Julius, then Jesus.

Re: the bloke on Ch9 last night having to hire armed guards to protect him from gangs. All the police could come up with was the suggestion that anyone hiring such people should make sure that they are licensed. Sheesh!

Sheesh!
ttbn,
Let's see if we can get an intelligent answer to this from Paul1405. May I suggest though not to hold your breath !

I'm somewhat concerned about the fact that Rick
Turner the man allegedly ättacked" has previously
been arrested for very similar clashes in the
past and is associated with far-right convicted
criminal Neil Erikson. According to The
Age newspaper - the United Patriots Front members
tried to break through police barricades on that
day but did not succeed. The Age referred to this
ättack"as älleged. The inference being that these
guys were out to make trouble - as they did at the
Reclaim our beach in St Kilda in the previous
rally weeks ago. They even used the same slogans
this time around.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6639135/Man-attacked-Invasion-Day-protest-reveals-really-happened.html

cont'd ...

Here's the link from The Age:

http://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/change-the-nation-invasion-day-protesters-march-through-melbourne-20190126-p50tt1.html

First Nation ?
Hmh, in my book a Nation is formed by large groups of the people of settlements & clans etc. getting together as one. Where in present-day named Australia did that happen pre Cook ?
What was that first Nation called ? It shouldn't take more than 24 hours to invent a name.

Dear individual,

Come in spinner.

So you claim;

"Hmh, in my book a Nation is formed by large groups of the people of settlements & clans etc. getting together as one."

Yup couldn't agree more, so when did all the colonies perched around this continent decide to come together as a nation? And don't you think that would be a great date on which to celebrate Australia Day?

I didn't see this "Frank" and his $1000/day armed protection nonsense, I do suspect it was a stunt put up by the far right United Patriots Front. Is Frank one of the nutters?

'I'm somewhat concerned about the fact that Rick
Turner the man allegedly ättacked" has previously
been arrested for very similar clashes in the
past and is associated with far-right convicted
criminal Neil Erikson.'

relax Foxy when the violennce levels of the far right get within 20% of the antifa thugs, the aborigional activist and the pussy heads you can then be concerned.

runner,

The far-right United Patriots Front has convicted
criminals running the organisation. The organisation
has police on alert and is on ASIO's radar. They
are neo-Nazis who incite violence. They also have
a men only fight club with gyms in both Melbourne
and Sydney. We have every reason to be concerned.

it seems to me Foxy you are only concerned by violence from the far right rather than the left which performs far more and often at a higher level.

runner, you have to be the biggest hypocrite on the planet, or a complete phoney. A supposed Christian, yet have no concern for your fellow man, condone and support Neo-Nazi's no less. How about stop hiding behind the Christian guff and put all your cards on the table.

I don't see why some people are wetting themselves because of a few idiots who they believe are 'far right’ or 'neo-Nazi’ when there are very few people who fit those descriptions, and they have no power whatsoever. They want to see Nazis? They need look no further than the real modern Nazis, the Marxist socialists, who are many and who do have the power in schools, universities and the public service, and government. While the bedwetters are allowing themselves to be mesmerised by a few show ponies like Blair Cottrill, the Marxists - the ones who have already got their feet firmly in the door - are busily doing irreparable damage to society. What has happened in the past, is happening again, while people ignorant of history are looking in the other direction.

Posted by Foxy
They also have a men only fight club with gyms in both Melbourne
and Sydney. We have every reason to be concerned.

Answer- Most gyms have boxing classes don't they- and wrestling, martial arts, ...

Did Blair Cottrill actually do any violent political criminal act I mean apart from "beheading a doll".

//Did Blair Cottrill actually do any violent political criminal act I mean apart from "beheading a doll".//

"In 2012, Cottrell served four months in Port Phillip Prison after being convicted of stalking his ex-girlfriend and her new partner, and of arson after attempting to burn down the man's house. In December 2013 he was fined $1,000 and sentenced to seven days in jail by a County Court judge for aggravated burglary, property damage, arson, testosterone trafficking, possessing a controlled weapon and breaching court orders."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Patriots_Front#Blair_Cottrell

That's the idol you far-right nuts hero-worship because he's a loud-mouthed bigot. A convicted arsonist. A thug. A thief, and not the sort gives to the poor, the sort that sticks it in his own pocket. In short, he's the sort of deadbeat that tories would normally be demanding to have locked up and the key thrown away... but because he's made a name for himself by publicly disparaging people that aren't white, apparently all is forgiven and you guys think he's the bees knees.

Thankfully, most Aussies aren't so thick that they can't spot an obvious deadbeat. You kind of have to feel sorry for the ones that can't...

And don't you think that would be a great date on which to celebrate Australia Day?
Steele Redux,
I'm afraid I don't get the gist of this ? Are you referring to the British or the Indigenous ?

//I'm afraid I don't get the gist of this ? Are you referring to the British or the Indigenous ?//

Why would the British be celebrate Australia day? They already have Queen's Birthday and the countries in the union have the feast days of their respective patron saints as unofficial national days, I see no reason why they'd adopt 'Straya day.

I’m personally not too concerned about what day we set aside to celebrate out nation. I can see some validity to the objections to Jan 27 but also suspect that a change of date would not fix much. A percentage of those doing the agitation are in my view typically using specific issues as a tool rather than a genuine concern about the issues.

I also find it ironic how keen some are to label others as Nazi’s. Very few actual Nazi’s around. It’s a term that gets thrown around so loosely that Gay Jewish left leaning commentators get called it by those who don’t tolerate dissenting views. At worst the far right might be be pre-fascist in the same way that most of the far left are pre Stalinist. In my view the far left is buying into extremism and the mindsets of authoriatism to a degree that puts them much closer to the horrors of Stalinist Soviet Union, Mao Zedongs China, Pol Pots Cambodia etc than any credible numbers of people on the right are buying into the views or extremes of the National Socialist German Workers Party.

R0bert

Toni Lavis,
What I meant was the Australians, the British came to mind as the original European settlers. I think we should ask real Aborigines about this rather than the 15/16th urban pretenders.
I have lived among indigenous Australians for much of my life & let me tell you the urban types are not held in high esteem in the Bush.

Channel 9 -was-Fairfax has finally sacked the violent, filthy-mouthed, leftist scum, Clementine Ford.

RObert,

The two convicted criminals who are the leaders of the
United Patriots Front, wanted portraits of Hitler hung
in every school classroom, and for students to read
Mein Kampf".

'
"In 2012, Cottrell served four months in Port Phillip Prison after being convicted of stalking his ex-girlfriend and her new partner, and of arson after attempting to burn down the man's house. In December 2013 he was fined $1,000 and sentenced to seven days in jail by a County Court judge for aggravated burglary, property damage, arson, testosterone trafficking, possessing a controlled weapon and breaching court orders."'

dear of dear Toni

visit any regional prison in wa and you will find this Cotrell character who I know little about has child like offenses compared with many from Indigeneous communities. Then again facts never stopped your sarcasm and hatred of truth.

"The two convicted criminals who are the leaders of the
United Patriots Front, wanted portraits of Hitler hung
in every school classroom, and for students to read
Mein Kampf".

And how many schools followed the advice, and hung pictures of Hitler on walls; how many set 'Mein Kampf' as a reading project? As I said, hysteria about a few louts with no power to achieve anything. Boring. As boring as 'Mein Kampf'. As boring as the insistence that National Socialism had, or has, anything at all to do with the mythical Far Right. The low average reading age ability of many Australians is constantly on show here, as is the total lack any knowledge of history.

ttbn,

The point being made had to do with the neo-Nazi beliefs
of the alt-right convicted criminal leaders
of the United Patriots Front.

It should also be pointed out that stalking and arson (thanks runner) are not political crimes. Bringing in someone who is clearly not of the 'violent left’ is also irrelevant. It doesn't make the left thugs less violent, and saying 'your side is as bad’ is puerile. If you want a discussion on right wing violent types, start a discussion on that.

ttbn,

Discussions are not meant to be just for people
who agree with you. Various issues do arise
whether you like them or not. And the issues are
not always just one-sided.

Ttbn, that may be in part my fault. Reacting to the over generalised use of the term Nazi to describe almost all opposition to extreme leftist ideology. In this case from what I’ve been able to gather that particular group has a leadership mostly comprised of thug at least one of whom appears to support parts of the Nazi ideology. For the rest I’ve found it hard to tell. As you point out overall they are not at all powerful, they don’t have much serious support in the media. My original point remains, the radical left are in many ways closer in my view to the ideology and behaviours that created the horrors of the communist world than most of those being labelled as Nazis are to the Nazi party. In real terms a far greater threat than the alt right and wanna be Nazis currently.

R0bert

Well, raise them yourself, Foxy, and don't misuse other other people's posts in a tit-for-tat operation. You don't seem to understand that you cannot change the subject, which is 'The violent left'. If you want a discussion on people you see as 'the violent right', do it; but it's a different subject. Disagree with the poster's opinions by all means. But you have to give reasons why you think he is wrong, and dragging up a couple of people not of the left simply does not achieve that. The people you obviously favour won't look any better just because you name someone you are against on the other side

ttbn,

I was merely replying to RObert's claim about Nazis.
We are entitled to respond in discussions to things
being said. If you disagree with that - contact the
moderator.

//visit any regional prison in wa and you will find this Cotrell character who I know little about has child like offenses compared with many from Indigeneous communities//

So that makes arson OK then does it, runner? If there are people committing worse crimes than arson - and there undoubtedly are - then the arson becomes excusable? Sorry, I obviously didn't attend the same school of ethics you did. So I'm left wondering exactly how many wrongs, in your view, it takes to make a right? Just a ballpark figure will do.

ttbn I thought Foxy’s comment was relevant. More relevant if the main point of my post had been addressed but that’s a different part of the issue. I’d prefer to know when actual Nazis are part of the public discourse just as I pay attention when peolle are pushing Marxist agendas.

My impression remains that the term Nazi gets flung around so loosely to attack those who don’t agree with the far left that the term is becoming meaningless.

R0bert

//It should also be pointed out that stalking and arson (thanks runner) are not political crimes.//

Fires in the Reichstag aside, no, generally not.

That still doesn't make make stalking and arson OK. When did such cowardly and thuggish behaviour become OK? Why does nobody seem to care that this deadbeat literally tried to burn a man's house down? WTF?

actually if you bothered to read the posts Toni you would see that my post was in response to Foxy's totally improportionate fear of a couple of jokers compared to the tyrants of antifa/pussy heads etc. You seem to have the art of complicating plain truth.

//In real terms a far greater threat than the alt right and wanna be Nazis currently.//

Yeah, I'm not so sure about that. Cottrell is fairly typical of the far-right, from what I've seen. Juiced-up drongos with very little impulse control, who are most looking for an excuse to thump people... and any excuse will do.

The left may or may not be more violent overall, and I suspect they're better organised and therefore more of a threat in that sense. But they also seem to be more choosy when it comes to picking their battles. Their violence takes place at 'peaceful' demonstrations; they don't just gang together like, well, a gang and go about threatening random members of the public. Which Cottrell and his bovver boys have been known to do. The violence of the left is more calculated and planned, and therefore less of a threat to me: the random acts of violence exhibited by the right are more of a threat to the man on the Clapham omnibus, and therefore more of an immediate concern to myself.

And presumably, an even bigger concern to people from sections of the community to which Cottrell as expressed or displayed a particular animosity, including Muslims, people who aren't white, and women.

//totally improportionate fear of a couple of jokers//

A couple of joker's, eh runner? So, what, arson is just a light-hearted childish prank now?

I don't reckon you'd be saying that if some c$%t set fire to your house, runner.

And another thing...

//actually if you bothered to read the posts Toni you would see that my post was in response to Foxy's//

Really? Then why did you start it with a quote from my post from 6:00:10 this morning, followed by this:

//dear of dear Toni//

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=8628#275380
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=8628#275399

Senility is a bitch, eh runner?

It appears that perhaps Toni Lavis has commented on my point without addressing it.

"Was Blair Cottrill actually convicted of any physically violent crime in relation to politics? You know a political act where something more than someones feelings were hurt."

The arson appears to be related to the breakdown with a personal relationship. I don't think I've heard of Cottrel being convicted with a physically violent act in a "political" context.

You could argue that a violent criminal charge in any context and at any time invalidates the person in any political context (I wouldn't).

It reminds me of the- ridiculous to me- concept of the Israeli's refusing discussions with the Palistinian's without a cease fire.

In some juresdictions "those IN gaol" can't vote but they can still state their case- to those that value their opinion.

Anyway Toni Lavis appears to have got himself somewhat bothered over Cottrel- I'm not sure that he can validate the number of claims he has brought against him.

To be fair it's not just Toni Lavis with these views but I've found them sparsely sourced.

But none of Toni Lavis' comments have convinced me that Cottrel is a danger to anyone but previous girl friends- and even this appears to be only in relation to a single relationship. I suspect he would acknowledge that he let his emotions get the better of him- and I suspect he has learned to manage his emotions better since.

Having seen some very unfortunate relationship breakdowns I can understand his reaction without necessarily supporting his behavior in the case. He has paid for his emotions by his time in gaol- I wouldn't imagine it was a pleasant experience.

Many other people are also concerned about the African gangs issue- I say kudos to Cottrel for being brave enough to hold a rally in this regard- at least he is acting on his belief unlike the vast majority that complain but do nothing.

Civic duty is something that we have lost we should get it back

//Civic duty is something that we have lost we should get it back//

I sincerely hope that you never on the receiving end of Cottrell or is ilk's 'civic duty', CM. I think you'd find it somewhat less vicariously enjoyable when it's you copping the beating or having your property damaged.

I have had my property damaged on multiple occasions but by those on the other side from Cottrel. Kudos to Cottrel.

So then CM you support the actions of the extreme with your "Kudos to Cottrel" Blair Cottrell is a despicable extremists who is not worthy of support of any kind. Here is a bit of recent reading which I found interesting.

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/blair-cottrell-and-the-problem-of-male-aggression-20180626-p4znhtmlw3

//I have had my property damaged on multiple occasions but by those on the other side//

I don't believe you. If I saw some damn punk kid trying to damage my property, I'd tell him to piss off, not subject him to an interview on his political leanings. How could you have known that your vandals were lefties? A most improbable tale, CM.

Blair Cottrell was convicted in 2012 and 2013 of offences
including arson, burglary, damaging property. He has
expressed pro-Nazi views. In 2015 he was one of three far
right activists found guilty and convicted for inciting contempt,
revulsion and ridicule of Muslims. He took part in a
mock beheading at a mosque in Bendigo and shared the
disturbing footage to social media. He's one of
the founders of - The United Patriots Front -
a group that regularly holds and attends rallies across
Australia - clashing often with counter protesters -
The group is very political and their aim is to garner
as much publicity as possible.

Posted by Foxy
Blair Cottrell was convicted in 2012 and 2013 of offences
including arson, burglary, damaging property.

Answer- Yes the relationship issues that he served time for.

Posted by Foxy
He has expressed pro-Nazi views. In 2015 he was one of three far
right activists found guilty and convicted for inciting contempt,
revulsion and ridicule of Muslims. He took part in a mock beheading at a mosque in Bendigo and shared the disturbing footage to social media. He's one of the founders of - The United Patriots Front - a group that regularly holds and attends rallies across Australia - clashing often with counter protesters - The group is very political and their aim is to garner as much publicity as possible.

Answer- So he's hurt some peoples feelings and has read some books by bad people and quoted some lines from these books. I remember during the Anti-Iraq War rallies there was a burning of the Australian Flag by the communists.

Communists like to read books by bad people too- I would perhaps think that they "should be locked up" but not because they "read books by bad people" but because they are against their own people.

The Communist argument seems to imply that- "criminals cannot be reformed"- but really the issue is "Communists don't like competition".

In summary- While I'm not an expert- I'm not convinced by the arguments of the "Communist invalidation of Cottrell"

It's not the "communist invalidation"of Blair
Cottrell and his cohorts - it's the Australian Federal Police
and the courts acting on behalf of the legislature
that have greatly reduced the capacity of these
people to organise effectively.

Foxy, give it a rest, does ad-nauseam ring a bell.
You've said it once, you've said it twice, you might as well have said it a thousand times.
My God we get it.
What you have done is reduced the impact of your attempt at making these guys out to be villains, to the point that now there's a whole bunch of people feeling sorry for these guys.
We know they're not your 'cup of tea', but they are to others, so tone it down, you are coming across like the petulant child who keeps interrupting her mother with, mummy, mummy, mummy all the while only annoying her mother who is trying to talk to someone.
So we got the message, every one, all twenty or more times.
Now as for the miscreants you so wish to malign and hate so much, believe it or not there are people out there who agree with them, well maybe not on everything.
Now a little reality check, my little wall flower.
While your focused on this particular 'right wing' advocate, you have failed to notice the 'left wing'.
What these right wingers are doing is 'nothing' compared to your left wing nuts.
The left are amongst the most aggressive and antagonistic of all of them put together.
Don't just watch the anti-right news, because there is too little of it.
Start watching the pro-left news and the violent protests which ensue.
C'mon Foxy if your going to criticise then be balanced about the details, because more and more you are losing cred, by just pushing one angle.
I've made my position clear time and again, I have NO TIME for the major parties and I am hoping for a 'hung parliament' so the independents will have control of the 'house'.
Thereby stopping the filth from benefitting any further.
But, I have also predicted that labour will romp it in.
My angst is not so much that it's labour but because it's one of the majors and again we will be screwed over.
Can anyone honestly tell the difference between the majors anymore?

ALTRAV,

Before you preach to others you should set an example
yourself. Otherwise it would appear that you think
you are the only one who's allowed to not shut up when
you hear BS or distortions of the facts or truth. That
you are the only one allowed to challenge others.

Fascism has come to Australia wrapped in a flag
under the banner of "patriotism"and "nationalism."
The fascists of today call themselves patriots and
nationalists. They are not harmless nuisances. They are
attempting to radicalise other men (and women) to
perpetrating aggression and violence against migrants,
people of colour, women and men - anybody who does not
fit into their regressive rigid idea of white male
supremacy. It is a hateful, hate-mongering
political philosophy.

There should be no room for racism or bigotry on our
streets. We have to become more vigilant about
pushing back against the tide of cultural violence.
And if you don't like my speaking out on this issue
that says more about you then it does about me.

There should be no room for racism or bigotry on our
streets.
Foxy,
So why are you pushing that barrow at every opportunity ? I found out long ago that the real racists are the ones pretending to be victims of racism. Feigned indignation is near the pinnacle of racism !

Foxy, SHUT UP! There are you happy now?
Is that what you wanted to hear?
Where you prattle on about things I won't even bother repeating or wasting the time to write them, It is YOU who are carrying on like a petulant child, as you always have done.
I and others here have come to learn and tolerate you and your naive and somewhat sweet childlike demeanor, BUT, Foxy, given that you have such a personality, don't think it will carry you beyond the realms of reality, maturity, reason and common sense.
Your beliefs are sweet but too unrealistic and fanciful.
When you give us YOUR rendition of what YOU believe things are, you are as if, Alice in Wonderland.
You charge me with being some kind of bully, yet I speak of things as they are, whereas you contend you are right but yet you promote fairy tales.
Just go back over your posts, you keep spouting all this nicey, nicey, stuff, it's sickening.
Yet we get a guy who is just another jacksh!t moron like all the rest out there and YOU decide that this guy is somehow recruiting people to start another Nazi camp or something.
Can you not see how you are doing yourself a dis-service by speaking.
You cannot relate to discussions about, violence, hate, anger, aggression, extreme emotional and physical acts of pain and suffering.
Your not wired for the real world, because the real world is all of the aforementioned.
Without the kind of guys you hate and denigrate, even like me, you cannot have a world with the other extreme; the good people.
BUT you must first accept that the bulk of humanity is a 'failed' experiment.
Once you come to terms with that you will see things for what they are and not what you would like them to be.
What you would like them to be is NOT going to happen, people don't change because YOU say so, so give it a rest, before you really become annoying.

Posted by Foxy, Friday, 1 February 2019 10:23:40 AM

It's not the "communist invalidation"of Blair
Cottrell and his cohorts - it's the Australian Federal Police
and the courts acting on behalf of the legislature
that have greatly reduced the capacity of these
people to organise effectively.

Answer- Well I believe that culture is an extension of family- every culture should have their own nation- culture is important for the continuity of the family- family is one fundamental principle of conservatism. Foxy doesn't have to agree with me- she can say that I'm bad for believing "that". If Cottrell stands up for "that" then on that point I stand up for him. Kudos to Cottrell.

Paul1405- I haven't read Constantine Ford's article on Cottrell yet- generally don't respect her opinion- but given you provided it I'll read it

"Foxy, SHUT UP!"

Il Duce trying to censor what another forumite can or can't post. Foxy has every right to post what she likes. The only one with the authority to shut anyone up is the moderator GY, fortunately that is not you.

Foxy, post it again and again if you feel its necessary. Don't take any notice of a trumped up want-a-be fascists.

Where is Phil on this?

Paul, your so predictable, you only have to write your name without any comments, and we already know what you're going to say, just like Foxy.
Because you both are so sensitive to criticism, I suggested to Foxy long ago, now I am suggesting it to you and others in your camp, to go and sign up to a forum designed especislly for sensitive little flowers like you lot.
It is run by Jewish Queers with a sensitivity rating that almost qualifies them for entry to a nunnery, in fact I'm thinking it just might be one.
They too, like yourselves, believe in never telling the truth, sugar coating everything and just wasting time and keystrokes in general.
It's called QUORA, look it up, just your cup of tea.
A nice, safe, warm and cosy little sanctuary for those too fragile to accept the harsh and true realities of life today.
Their mantra is Be Nice, Be Respectful.
Oh isn't that just divine.
You will find this forum perfect for your level of sensitivity and emotions.
So please have a look and enjoy.
Paul, BTW I was exercising my 'right of reply' to Foxy's failed attempt at trying to imply that 'I' should, 'shut up'.
So you can all take it like a MAN; I do!

Regarding Paul1405's Clementine Ford article on Cottrell-

Refers to in incident where Cottrell and others objected/ protested to a performance by apparently gay street performer "Dandyman" apparently trying to model gay behavior as acceptable in a public space (including young children).

Seems to be mainly abuse and little analysis by Ford- quotes a couple of obscure academics "feminist Afro-American scholar Bell Hooks", and "Professor Ananya Roy, University of California born in Calcutta".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clementine_Ford_(writer)

I'm not sure Clementine Ford has a broad experience of the world- and seems to exist within a feminist bubble- I suspect that she has difficulty relating to men- it would be interesting to know what her relationship with her father was.

According to the wikipedia article "Ford grew up in Adelaide, South Australia, and as a teenager struggled with an eating disorder."

Overall I sympathize with Clementine Ford's teenage eating disorder and the terrible teenage depression often associated with this condition- but with respect to her societal views and her views on Cottrell- I can't see a link between her evidence and her conclusions.

In science it's important to separate the observer from the observed- not sure that she has achieved that.

One again, I find it curious that so many posters around here are pretending that they are fine with somebody literally trying to burn a man's house down, just because he got a gentle slap on the wrist for it. I think we can all see through such a transparent act, because we're familiar with their previously expressed views on law & order as they apply to everyone that isn't a juiced-up drongo. I'm just curious as to why they think it will damage their arguments to drop such a silly and obvious pretense.

Il Duce, what we have here are a number of hypocritical pots, you being one of the pots, along with ttbn and Phil, plus others of your ilk who call the kettles black. The kettles being Foxy, myself and others of our ilk. You pots give as good as you get, that is undeniable, which does not phase me in the slightest. Your first mistake was to make the assertion that I am "so sensitive to criticism" as if I would care about your criticism of me, I cannot speak for Foxy. If I respected you and the other pots I well could be sensitive to your criticism, since I have absolutely no respect for you or the others, what ever you say or suggest is of no consequence what so ever to me. Call me maggot, call me grub, call me what you like, but it has no effect. Other than drawing this response, which is only for your edification on the subject, otherwise it is a complete waste of yours and my posting allowance. Phil and ttbn have made the same mistake, believing their critical comments of me are of some value to me, like yours they are not.

BTW, I would not expect you to care what I say about you, as I believe you have no respect for me. Why should you, so be it. If I craved yours and other Forumites like you, if I craved your respect, and having not received it, I would feel a pain of some loss. I feel no such pain. I have made my position clear, and I understand yours, so lets get on with it! if you are hurt or peeved by what I post, do you think I care?

Paul1405,
What a pointless retort !

ALTRAV,

Stop acting like you know me.
You don't.

I would not dream of telling
you to shut up. On the contrary - the more
you post the better. It speaks volumes.

Canem Malum,

I understand your mindset. And the reasons for
it. However, Australians will decide what kind
of society they wish to live in. The next
federal election will prove interesting.

Dear Paul,

Thank You for your kind words and concern.
But don't worry - I've known people like that
all of my life. Not a big deal. And as Steelie
would say - they do provide a certain amount of
entertainment. I don't mind their outmoded views
as long as they express them with panache and class.
Unfortunately - that seems to be difficult for
some of them.

Individual, agreed, again Paul takes irrelevance to a new level.
Paul, if you don't care what I say, then why did you 'waste your posting allowance' on me, and respond at all.
You see Paul, unlike you I respect you and your ilk, (followers).
I may not agree with you, but that has nothing to do with respect.
Where you fail is that you 'say' you don't want to acknowledge me and my postings, because you disagree with me and/or find me to be of an unsavoury nature to what you and your lot regard as acceptable, 'in your world'.
Paul, I on the other hand, feel the need to respond to any and all comments that are wrong or mis-leading, or worse, even if they are about me.
To not do so is social suicide, as an observer may see it as accepting a criticism or negative comment or observation of oneself.
So Paul, the mere fact that you respond, means that you do care about what someone says about you.
Where you and your lot need a little coaching is that when you respond to something you don't like, you respond by criticising the messenger, and not the message.
My biggest complaint to you and your lot, is that your attitudes and demeanor are as if you are at a pre-school or a presenter on a morning children's TV show.
The perfect example is the "WIGGLES".
You and your lot are the stand-ins for the Wiggles.
It's amazing how perfect you all are for the job.
It covers your innocent and childlike virtues and thinking, just like the image the Wiggles portray.
Anyway keep it up, it shouldn't be too long before you get that phone call to go in and audition.
Don't worry you're all so well placed for the job, it's shoe-in.

cont'd ...

Dear Paul,

Two ancient sayings come to mind:

1) Vasa vana plurium sonant

2) Aquila non capit muscas

How is it there is one definition of the "right", presumably an abusive Neo-Nazi tosser and his drunkard idiot friends accosting a street performer, yet there is no working example of socialism? Meanwhile in Venezuela there is a real ideological battle taking place. Not Neo-Nazis, just everyday people with a range of views wanting political self-determination. They are against an oppressive socialist dictatorship that has left the country in ruins, with no reservations about murdering more citizens so they can cling to power and continue their corruption and pilfering. The response of the far left: Butt out USA and leave democratically elected Maduro to sort things out.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47087875

Foxy,
give us break, these thoughts didn't come to your mind, you found them in an english to latin online translation.

Thank You for your kind words and concern.
Foxy,
This sentence exposes you as someone of little integrity & even less concern for this nation !

Individual,

I see that you're the kind of man who picks
his friends - to pieces.
:-)

Foxy, I know you better than you would like.
Every time you try to counter, it 'speaks volumes' about yourself.
You see, Foxy, I didn't say you 'told me to shut up'.
Call me pedantic or petty, but semantics and words actually do matter in conveying a message.
If you go back and have a 'mummy read' of your comment, you will find that I did in fact, not state that you 'told ME to shut up'.
I'm too lazy to type your words in, so assuming you are interested in the truth and becoming a better person because of it, you will in fact go back and check if I am right, if only to find fault in my response.
By now you know I am or I would not mention it, so to use your words, 'it speaks volumes' about you and your mindset.
You see judging a person by assessing them on one dimension alone shows a tendency for being bias.
I don't mind anyone 'knowing' me, only that they get to know the 'real' me and not the one they perceive, commenting on a forum.
So all I ask is that if one is truly an 'adult', that they display the ability to reason and use common sense.
This is sadly not the case with many of you out there.
BTW, the very thing I abhor and have spoken about is in your last posting, where you reply to 'dear Paul'.
That's the rubbish you might call ........I have no idea what you would call it.
To me that is more insulting than being told to shut up.
These displays of gratitude and somewhat, affection, belong in the bedroom not on a forum.
By all means concur with someone, agree, relate, but do not go on some mushy rhetoric which holds no bearing on anything either on topic or off.
So let's keep it at a level befitting a forum and not a dating site shall we.

ALTRAV,

Read what I actually said - not what you think
I said.

Some posters make me seriously consider seeking cultural mentality asylum !

Foxy, you make it too easy.
I won't waste words and go straight to your gaff.
Here goes;
Page 20.
Fourth Reply.
Line 3. "I would not dream of telling you to shut up".
My response to your attempt at your 'slight of hand' innuendo at a double negative, is on;
Page 18.
Last comment.
Second line from the top. ".......you think you are the only one who's allowed to not shut up when you hear BS or distortions of the facts or truth".
You see, unlike some, I read 'what is actually said, not what unlike some, think was said'.
You can deflect all you want, your cred is fast disappearing.
I'm not sure if your wording was intentional or accidental, but either way, the phrase in question is unclear and somewhat ambiguous.
Now knowing your background, I believe your gaff was intentional, in which case your whole submission is moot.
Good try, but it didn't work.
So to close, I told you to shut up.
I was not responding to any 'direct' statement for me to shut up, but more one of innuendo.
Just want to make sure the truth is not hijacked by the facts

ALTRAV,

Read your comments at the bottom of page 3.
Perhaps things will become clearer to you.
You give advice to other people but
you make yourself exempt. Hence my reply to you.

Secondly, I have noted your comments on my
survival in this male-dominated forum and your
wanting me to put on a bit of the crass, blowhard
thing, because you think I can't survive being
"nice"in this environment. Well I have survived
here for a very long time and my record speaks
for itself. I'll match it with yours any day.

Most males have outgrown the need to be blowhards about
their masculinity. They leave that to anonymous
keyboard warriors, who have more time for it.

You want to be careful not to become just a blowhard
that no one will take seriously, except another blowhard.

Foxy, I'm not going to facilitate you and your child like naive imagination.
Take my advise, don't take my advise, it's always been your call.
NO-ONE, neither I nor anyone else can force you to do anything you don't want to do.
Your continual bestowing of your child like virtues and ideals, are very sweet, for a pre-pubescent, but really Foxy I won't speculate your age other than to say, males 'never' grow up, so we are the 'larrikins', of the species, but females are supposed to be the more grounded and reliable, with a more than average amount of reason and common sense.
Well since the maggots decided to push this equality crap, they have succeeded in bringing the women down into the same gutter as the males, turning them into females and maggots, like themselves, worthless and useless.
Not one worthy of being called a woman let alone be entrusted to raise a child, not with these current sick, gutter values.
So if you want to be taken seriously, first address the maggot problem in the world (or Australia) today, and then perhaps people will begin to take those like yourself seriously.
Until then, don't waste your time and energy knocking or mocking me, remember I grew up in this sh!thole not long after the war, and being one of the enemy, I put up with a lot more than you will ever come up with.
Your too nice to ever lower yourself to the sewers where these people resided back then.
So let's move on, the war is long past, and I don't subscribe to them anyway.
Onward and upward, as they say.

ALTRAV,

I can see that nothing is to be gained by any
discussion with you

Foxy,
You're on this blowhard thing today and I've just gotta go with it.
Here's a piece of Australia you never knew about.

Blowhard - V8 Rock n Roll
http://youtu.be/uHsWLwhj4FU

"One bar of lead guitar for every cylinder in my car"

AC, good one, I like it.
Never heard of em' before.
Now that was real Aussie lyrics.
Foxy, what on earth did you think was 'going to be gained' by any discussion with me?
These discussions are many and varied, we cover a lot of fodder in them.
I don't respond to all of them, because quite frankly, most of the topics should be submitted to the UN and the like.
I don't know where some people's heads are at, we are not the UN and we are NEVER going to agree on anything because there are too many versions of the same truth.
All one has to do is keep digging and they will find that information is one big 'flip flop'.
Yes by one author, then No by another, too hard, can't believe anyone anymore, there's too much money being bandied around, and that IS the truth.

Foxy, looked up page three.
Not sure exactly what you're referring to.
I said nothing I haven't said a million times before.
If you could extract the offending lines I would be happy to agree with you, if you are right.

AC,

Glad to see that you're interested in
being retro. :-)

ALTRAV,

Not interested.

I don't see the point.

Guys, is it me, or did I just get another 'flip' from a 'lefty', as they continually attack the writer and not the written.
The ultimate win for anyone faced with Foxy's 'flippant' response is that of someone who either cannot or will not respond to a question.
In this case the terms of reference were (always) set by Foxy, so I would expect closure.
So Foxy, hiding behind the excuse of 'can't be bothered', you have ceded to me again on this one.
That's OK, I don't expect you to agree, in fact I fully expect a another pointless and deflecting response.
To respond to your 'actual' comment;
The 'point' is that you are wrong in so many ways and at so many levels.
The 'point' is that with so many on here that argue against you compared to the few neuters who agree with you, would make anyone stop and rethink their position or stance, but not you.
You keep going on about me 'knowing it all' and 'being wrong' all the time, well I think you over reached, because I'm pretty sure you are talking about yourself, because you don't know me.
Anyway, I truly hope you broaden your mind by looking outside once in a while and stop thinking the real world is in those fiction novels you've read too many of.
I might suggest you become a Minister of the church, because you have proven yourself to be more than qualified or capable for the position.

G'day Il Duce,

I'm back to reading the first three lines of your posts, life's too short to read any more nonsense than that. Mate, you seem to have had a another rush of blood to the head with your criticisms of Foxy. What's the problem? Been hanging upside down to long in the Town Square or something.

Paul1405 Liar - It looks like you need to be retrained every few days because you keep forgetting it is IL Duce.

Quote "life's too short to read any more nonsense" Is that why you don't reread your comments too much nonsense, now I understand.

Paul1405,
Any chance of ever getting a sensible reply out of you ? You are pretty quick on the mark when you feel you can prove a point but as soon as you're cornered you retort to ridicule. How about proving that you can actually muster some sense by expressing basic logic in your replies to legitimate questions of concern, concerns which can't be solved by silly, pointless quips !

Philip S., and Individual,

Your attempts at consistently trying to bring
Paul down only means that he's above you.

You gentlemen protest too much, methinks.

Foxy,
let the horses do the thinking, they have a bigger head !

I shall from now on refrain from replying to Foxy, Paul1405, Toni lavis until such time that they can demonstrate a commitment to the betterment of this Nation rather than just ideological & sarcasm loaded, utterly unproductive & integrity devoid quips.
Over & out ! Back to Channel 16

Individual,

Then you are going to have to find your own
links and information on various issues.
Here I was thinking I actually was of some use to
you and the nation in keeping guys like you
informed so you could make informed choices.

Perhaps this will be for the better

PS: Its not the size of the head that counts.

Dear ALTRAV,

You still kicking around on this thread? I thought you would have had the common decency to call it a day.

I then realised you never replied after I caught you out making “pig ignorant” claims about a study you said found Aborigines had only been here for between four and ten thousand years when in fact it stated over 50 thousand years.

So do you just choose to blindly ignore facts when they are presented to you? To believe the incident just never happened?

I get that you were thick enough to believe what you had written in the first place, but it takes a special type of person to then continue to bluster their way around the joint as though the value and veracity of their opinion had not been severely shot to pieces.

You really are doing yourself no favours.

Dear individual,

Why haven't I got a Guernsey too?

Steely, I think I responded to your question some time ago.
It may have been mixed in with other responses in the same posting.
What I think I said was, that I cannot confirm one way or another.
If I looked it up, I did not look any further, approx 10,000 was what was being quoted in that article.
Then looking at another we get outrageous numbers like 50-60,000 yrs.
I thought that because the abo's last place of domicile was Indonesia, that is where they reign from and that meant their ancestors were Indonesians, not abo's.
Is that the topic or question you are referring to?

Individual, don't let the children run amok.
Children require, no, demand discipline and taught the truth about life and the real world.
If you walk out you are doing several things wrong.
One is you will be sending a message to the childreen that they are right.
And two they, being children will destroy all they come into contact with, unless there is an adult, mature person to teach them and direct them.
This has been one of the main problems with people today, they have been left to their own devices, because the parents are too lazy and self absorbed to put the time to the rearing of their chidren, and just let them go 'free range'.
But you see because chickens are smarter than these people/children they can be let loose to run free.
People/children in general and that includes the ones you mention on OLO. CAN'T, they do not possess the maturity and the experience that all of life has to offer.
They have lived in their various bubbles all their lives and that's why they have such limited and unrealistic views on life.
I could give a more in-depth break down of their mindsets but not now.
So it is that I would suggest you reconsider before you go 'AWOL'.
Look forward to your postings soon.

Foxy - Defending the indefensible, what goes around comes around.

Quote "Philip S., and Individual,
Your attempts at consistently trying to bring
Paul down only means that he's above you."
** Here we have an opinion that is based on bias, not on fact. **

Quote "You gentlemen protest too much, methinks."
** Bias proven you fail to point out Paul has equal or close too retorts. **

Also "methinks" is an opinion only not a fact, so in reality you could be wrong.

//Then looking at another we get outrageous numbers like 50-60,000 yrs.//

What do you find so outrageous about 60,000 years, ALTRAV? Is it because it's based on the reliable and well established technique of radiometric dating, rather than just plucked out of thin air?

ERRR, DUH? Because it's a very long time, compared to 10,000 yrs.
My focus was on the 'LAST' Domicile of the abo, not how far back that particular branch of homo-sapien went back.
Only where they came from, so it was mentioned that 10,000 yrs was long enough for a particular 'family' to become familiar with that land, even though, in the abo's case they kept going South, to Australia.
So to highlight the point I was making was that the Aussie abo, is in fact Indonesian, and had been in Australia possibly for 10,000 yrs, and long before that, probably 50-60,000yrs before, were Indian.
Does that clarify and satisfy you now, as to my thinking, sir?
Your welcome.

//ERRR, DUH? Because it's a very long time, compared to 10,000 yrs.//

Really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSvJaYxRoB4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNsrK6P9QvI

Your use of the term 'outrageous' would seem to suggest that you have a strongly-founded reason as to why 60,000 years is a wildly implausible figure. I mean, I'd understand if it was runner claiming it be outrageous; he thinks the entire universe is only 6,000 years old. But nope, your sole objection to the 60,000 year figure is the astute mathematical observation that 60,000 > 10,000.

Sometimes all you can do is facepalm in disbelief at the depths of human stupidity.

//So to highlight the point I was making was that the Aussie abo, is in fact Indonesian//

Well then what does that make the Indonesians?

//and had been in Australia possibly for 10,000 yrs//

What is the basis of this 10,000 year claim, ALTRAV? Other than some vague waffling about an article you might have read some years ago, or possibly not, who really knows.... because you certainly don't seem to.

Is it 'google' again, ALTRAV? I'm betting it's google.... sigh :(

The 60,000 year claim is based on archaeological remains - found on digs carried out on the Australian mainland - showing clear evidence of human habitation - with said remains having been dated radiometrically - and been found to be approx. 60,000 years old.

Now, which specific bit of that do you take issue with? That the digs were carried out on mainland Australia? Do you take issue with the technique of radiometric dating? What, specifically, is your objection to the figure of 60,000 beyond the mathematical necessity that it is greater than 10,000?

Alright everybody, prepare to duck and cover for a TRAV tantrum in 3..2...1...

Toni, don't flatter yourself.
I don't do 'Tantrums', but as you chose the word, it is more likely you do as it appears you are more familiar with the word.
The truth is I don't care whether it was 10 or 60 thousand years.
What is more to the point and most revealing is YOUR continued insistence on being right.
You see I don't care if I am wrong, I wasn't there.
So you are then going to question my info source.
You weren't there either so why are you right? Oh that's right, because YOUR source is better than mine.
That's good, I'm not complaining, but if you think I'm going to question Google or Wiki, over, well, 'nothing', you are sadly mistaken.
So no tantrum, just another boring reply to an annoying commentor.
I want to give you a wake up call.
I don't like WIKI because, again, I heard that the information can somehow be altered by people who access the medium.
Now I have no idea what that means, because I don't use it, but it is the main reason I don't use or believe it.
It may or may not be true, either in part or whole, but I have never heard of any such compromises with Google.
You may choose to put WIKI over Google, that's none of my business, I'm not computer literate enough to engage in any debate about that, so I stick to what I know and would ask you, why would Google promote errors?
What's in it for them?
And if, as you say Google is not as knowledgeable as WIKI, would someone not have informed Google of their errors as they are exposed, if there really are any?
So sorry Toni, no tantrums today.
But you go right ahead, I wouldn't dream of stopping you.

//I don't do 'Tantrums'//

Lol.

//Oh that's right, because YOUR source is better than mine.//

My source bases its figure on tried and tested archaeological methods. For all we know about your source, which you once again steadfastly refuse to provide, the figure was arrived at by a random number generator. So yes, obviously I consider a source which is based on established scientific principles better than a source where the figure is arrived at by means unknown.

//And if, as you say Google is not as knowledgeable as WIKI, would someone not have informed Google of their errors as they are exposed, if there really are any?//

Google is a search engine, ALTRAV, not a source. We've been over this. If you'd just provide your sources, we could get your little misunderstandings straightened out more quickly. I suspect what's happened is that you've read an article which discussed 10,000 year old Aboriginal remains, and you misread it as implying that that was the upper limit for human settlement in Australia. And now, through sheer obstinacy, you refuse to consider any other possibility.

Toni, obstinacy aside, I'm prepared to consider your take on my comments because it is not entirely impossible.
Having heard the words 'search engine' for many years, I have always scoffed at the term because like many things today, they don't correctly describe the thing they are naming, and still, even today, I do not know what it means.
I mean, search 'engine', really?
There is an 'engine' somewhere in all this computer world?
I've always used Google, by just typing in leading words and 'hey presto', up comes a stream of answers.
I have never had reason to doubt Google and am still not quite sure of the distinction and differentiation you place on it.
But anyway, I find Google easy to use and so prefer it.
Have you heard anything about this suggestion that people can change the info on Wiki?
I would like to clear that one up if I could, if there is any truth in it.

ALTRAV- Being an engineer the word "search engine" is an amusing term.