I would like to, while fending off the very right it needs to be said
SOME on the left, SOME who use PC like a filthy dish cloth need to be told
Moving the day is divisive, it promotes division
Our country strives to be one, we, the best of us, KNOW past crimes against our first nation took place
We KNOW past efforts to make a better life for them have failed more often than not
But we KNOW too only a handful want to change the date
Keep the welcome to country, the smoking ceremony, remember on that day all of our past
But keep our inclusive day for every Australian and shove the PC/Minority trouble making division

I agree with one of the TV commentators the other day who said we should keep 26th January and, have a special day for acknowleging the Australian Indigenous' plight/fate/experience.
If I remember right he recommended a day in May.
Rudd's apology didn't cut so perhaps a day in May will.

any day is offensive for those who have rewritten history.

Already runner? your bigotry ,knowing you CLAIM to be Christian damns you
70 percent plus do not want to change the day
What number of first nation want to? probably no more
So both the lost right love it and the very left want it, do they understand they WILL NEVER GET IT
Maybe they just like division
We can never change history, change the truth todays Australians in big numbers have ancestors who came post ww2, not on the first fleet, and took no part in the crimes we know took place
Always look for the center path, find a crowd to travel with
Not a fringe element that harms us by dividing us

I've said before, we should change the name to Thanksgiving.

Those of Anglo decent can give thanks that their ancestors found Sydney Cove and were of a type to create a nation from such beginnings.

Those of non-Anglo decent can give thanks that they and their ancestors were permitted to come to the nation the founders created.

The aboriginals (calling them First people or First Nation is historically incorrect) can give thanks that its was the British who turned up. Had it been the French, Spanish, Belgians or Chinese things would have been vastly more difficult and gruesome for their ancestors.

Finally, we can use all the left over paraphernalia from the US celebration

80 percent of Australians are not radicals
Far right or far left
Want to bet that is not true?
Watch the results of this years election
Both sides would have us believe their side is the only one
But the true poll numbers about this are 74 percent not agreeing with change
How then/why would either minority think we need to be separate?
We rejected Apartheid, always will, being one country one people, aware of our past wrongs is good enough for most of us

We rejected Apartheid, always will,
Belly,
But you're the one who keeps pushing the Us vs Them barrow !

Belly: Our country strives to be one, we, the best of us, KNOW past crimes against our first nation took place.

Yes we do. & Aboriginal Crimes against early Settlers as well. That never seems to get a mention.

Belly: We KNOW past efforts to make a better life for them have failed more often than not

How many Billions have been spent in trying to integrate & upgrade the living standards of Aboriginal people of Australia?

How many schemes have been put into effect, only to see them fail time & time again? Not because of the White Man, but because of the Aboriginals running the schemes.

How many inner-city Aboriginals, who have been inner City Aboriginals for 100 years or more, are crying poor & hard done by, yet are living on Welfare because they refused to get an Education & join in the Workforce? Claiming that White fella’s owe me. The trouble makers that have never been out of Redfern, etc.

How many Aboriginal people live in Government Housing that they’ve turned into Hovels because they have no idea about Hygiene or cleanliness? Well they do, but they don’t clean. They blame the White Man for their Low Standards of Housing.

How many Aboriginal CEO’s & Committees are living it up on the Grants. Great houses, New car every two years, Great Parties (I’ve been to a few) put on by the CEO’s & Committees to explain to their fellow Aboriginals how badly the White Man is treating them & laughing all the way to the Bank?

How many Aboriginal Organizations have been shut down for Fraud & when another Organization is started it’s run by the same people who ran the previous one?

How many Aboriginals are in Prison because “they” committed a Crime? but, it was the White Mans fault they committed a crime?

How many little kids have been Raped on Aboriginal lands & Settlements? Syphilis is through the roof. In little kids.

Some people are upset at Australia Day on the 26th. January. WTF?

Big Nana. Could you come into this one please?

Indie: he recommended a day in May.

Maa… tate. Was that it?

Mhaze: The aboriginals can give thanks that it was the British who turned up. Had it been the French, Spanish, Belgians or Chinese things would have been vastly more difficult and gruesome for their ancestors.

I’ve mentioned this before. The 1300’s to the 1800’s were time of exploration & Colonization by the World Powers of the time.

Treatment of the local Peoples by the British, while not great, was far better than the treatment Aboriginal Peoples any of the other nations received.
Ask the Aztec’s (Spanish). Ask the Inca’s (Portugese). Ask the Indoneasions (Dutch). Ask the Veitnamese (French) Ask the African People of the Congo (Belgian). Ask the Tanzaneians (German) I could go on. Look at where those Countries are to-day compared to anywhere the British Colonized. Especially after they gained independence.

Let’s Look at America, Canadas, Hong Kong, Singapore. Malaysia, Australia, even South Africa although it’s now following Zimbabwe, down-hill fast.

Belly: 80 percent of Australians are not radicals, Far right or far left.

I do believe in the 20/80 rule. The noisy 20% Radicals make 80% of the noise. That’s 15% Left V 5% Right. The 80% are mostly silent.

Belly? We rejected Apartheid, always will,

It pay’s to remember the reason Apartheid was introduced into South Africa. It was to keep the Warring Local Tribes apart & to stop them from tearing one another to pieces. Not to separate the White from the Blacks. It was the Dutch Boars started that.

Just make it the last Friday or Monday in January, so we get a guaranteed long weekend with the date occasionally falling on the 26th and being pretty close the rest of the time.

There we go, sorted.

What was the biggest victory over Europeans by Aborigines ? They could celebrate that day to make things even.

jaybit was not my intention to make this a thread about what some see is wrong with our first nation
Again want to highlight inclusiveness
And oppose separatism
We must be aware minority's use any chance to make their wants get the spotlight
It is a minority view we should change the day

Belly,

The reality is the overwhelming majority of people are perfectly happy with the date, and with the only other viable alternate date being the 1st of Jan.

The problem with any bunch of activists is that giving them an inch only energises them to ask for the whole yard. What they object to is anything that recognises Australia, so moving the date is not enough. Every time the issue is discussed it is only a few days later and then the activists want to discuss it again.

The people have spoken.

//The reality is the overwhelming majority of people are perfectly happy with the date//

I reckon we were pretty happy with our long weekend as well, until the bastards in Canberra stole it off us in 1988 to 'celebrate' the bicentenary. What's more Aussie than a long weekend? And isn't Aussie-ness what Australia day is supposed to be about? Return the long weekend!

//and with the only other viable alternate date being the 1st of Jan. //

Or the Monday closest to the 26th, which you may note is when the public holiday falls this year because the 26th is a Saturday, and what we used to enjoy back in the good old days before we lost our long weekend to 'progress'. Would it really be so awful to have it on a Monday every year?

The closure date of ATSIC could be one for celebration for the Indigenous !

jayb,

"Ask the Aztec’s (Spanish). Ask the Inca’s (Portugese). Ask the Indoneasions (Dutch)" etc...

On the same page.

But you missed the Chinese. In the late 15th and early 16th century the most likely coloniser was the Chinese. They had the means to expand their empire but as it turnd out, lacked the will. Research continues to try to work out why but its mostly to do with the stasis of central government compared to the dynamism of Europe.

But in this period the Chinese were regular visitors to northern Australia. They mainly came to buy aboriginal women who were much sought after back home as slaves and concubines. But other trading occurred and there is some evidence that they considered establishing trading posts which almost always lead to conquest.

Another interesting aspect of that trade was that aboriginal women were for sale. The current PC view is that they had equal rights in the tribe, but in reality they were mere chattels

Toni,

Mon 28th is a public holiday to compensate for the WE.

If there could be found a relevant alternative to the 26th, and the day still celebrates Australia's foundation, then maybe these left whinge activists could sell the change.

mhaze: But in this period the Chinese were regular visitors to northern Australia. They mainly came to buy aboriginal women who were much sought after back home as slaves and concubines. But other trading occurred and there is some evidence that they considered establishing trading posts which almost always lead to conquest.

The Mouloccans came for Beach de Mer but didn't interact with the Locals to any great extent. I have no knowledge of the Chinese buying Aboriginal women from anything I have read or heard. I do know they came, especially to Western Australia for Sandal Wood near Broome.

The Chinese just came & took & ignored the locals. They came to Cape York for Tripang Sea or Beach de Mer, but there was no trading. There is a map in a museum in Taiwan that shows an exploration from the Murray, up the Darling then across to a creek that starts just a little West of Hughenden near Ballindalloch. My mates Tribes Birth place at the head of the Spring. That shows that the Chinese did explore Australia.

The Chinese do call Australia their Great South Land. I was told that by an old Chinese bloke in Hong Kong in 1966. One day they'll probably make a claim that they own Australia. Like they claim they own the China Sea. Ay.

Thanks for a little balance and truth mhaze

One day they'll probably make a claim that they own Australia.
Jayb,
could that mean we might get some manufacturing back here ?

Do not often agree Shadow Minister but do here
Look at the facts only a minority, maybe even of Aboriginals
Extremes create trouble
This is such a case, always consider what the majority thinks

Nobody can change the date something happened. It is a date to proudly celebrate the founding of a modern nation from first arrival, and, a day to mourn the marginalization of those already here, which began on the same day.

Why can't we do both?

//If there could be found a relevant alternative to the 26th//

How about the closest Monday? It's relevant because its date is based on what day the 26th falls.

//and the day still celebrates Australia's foundation//

Good Friday always celebrates (not quite the word... commemorates?) the crucifixion, despite having a range of dates. I'm pretty sure Jesus was crucified on a specific date rather than a wide range of possible dates but it doesn't detract from the meaning or value of Good Friday solemnities. Labour Day moves about, as does Queen's Birthday. I think the only public holidays that should be fixed to a particular date are Anzac Day, Christmas Day and Boxing Day.

As an Australian of mostly Irish ancestry, I can't say that I give have many sh!ts to give about a punch of over dressed Poms landing their boat, hoisting a Union Jack and toasting King George III. Australia is not a day for forelock tugging and observing a minute's silence for the Empire upon which the sun has firmly set; that's what Queen's Birthday is for. Australia day is for celebrating Aussie-ness, and a long weekend goes a long way to help that. People can go camping; they can allow the backyard test match to go on into the third day; they can chill out properly and enjoy being Aussie.

And being Aussie is something I fear we are desperately in danger of losing when our baseball-capped buffoon of a PM makes a serious suggestion that there be a dress code for Australia celebrations that doesn't allow pluggers. The man has clearly lost the plot. Australia day without thongs.... it's just not right, is it?

Luciferase: a day to mourn the marginalization of those already here, which began on the same day.

Why do you assert that these people are marginalized. Maybe once 50 years ago but not now. Marginalization is being pushed on these people by a select group who want to create division in Australia. The White people are & have been bending over backwards to help these people with Schemes proposed by the very people who want to cause division for their own end. One failure after another all preplanned by the Socialists.

Ordinary white people aren't to blame. It's the highly Educated Lefties & Socialist that have much to gain from creating that margin.

Yes, there is the ongoing effort to redress the wrongs, and this should continue in ways that bring aborigines more and more into the modern world (and keeping them on their ancestral land as its publicly paid custodians does not fit with this).

IMO the effort should stop short of a treaty, which only serves to promote a nation within a nation. "Treaty" and the extremist "full sovereignty now" position, will always rear their head on Australia Day, regardless of date, and can continue to all hang out AFAIAC. Nothing will, or should, quiet this other than the passage of time as more aborigines join the mainstream at the increasing rate they are doing, according to educational outcome statistics.

Australia Day should be bitter sweet, with solemnity before celebration recognizing that not everyone perceives themselves to be a beneficiary of white settlement.

Even in my party some find my view confronting
That however is no reason to change it
Minority view must never overrule majority
Never divide, this issue does
We are like it or not ,one, we do come from all over the world, a day must exist to celebrate our birth
For us migrants it is our birth as a country
Remember the past learn from it include our first nation, but do not without thinking, divide us
I too do not want a treaty ever
I DO want real effort to make life better for these Australians
SEE TWO STORY'S IN THIS MORNINGS SMH first the theft of funds second of deliberate baring people from a venue
Racism is always wrong, always fed by lies, and always divides us neededlessly

Racism is always wrong, always fed by lies, and always divides us neededlessly
Belly,
Agree but how can we stop the racists from perpetually bleating victim ?

indy all races have racists
it remains evil
it blinds us to the truth, we should be one people,
it helps us ignore others who plant racism may well be taking our eyes off them
we need to observe even the UN as some one will turn up one day with a plan to fix every thing/install a dictatorship

I'll see you all at Australia Day on Saturday to sing Waltzing Matilda and listen to The Last Post- toast our ancestors and tell their stories. May we leave more than we were left. And remember our debt to Great Britain for creating Australia in it's image.

Individual and Belly- Your discussion about "racists being evil" sounds like the hypothesis "all people are liars" - I'm a person so I'm a liar - so the hypothesis I've made is not true.

Human nature throws up a few paradoxes.

CM how did you get the last post in to this day
Made it up did you not
Never heard it played on our national day

Belly said- CM how did you get the last post in to this day
Made it up did you not
Never heard it played on our national day

Answer- Word association- poetry often uses phrases that illicit feeling to emphasize a message.

Australia Day > about British Settlers > about history of Australia > about my ancestors > at the going down of the sun and in the morning we'll remember them > The Last Post.

Belly- You're right though- it isn't played on Australia Day. It's probably an association that only a British Australian would understand. I suppose people without roots are a danger to people with them. Paraphrasing Kurosawa- "People that are like grass and death"

Dear Belly,

For now Australia Day should stay as is.

The time to change it would be when and if we ever
become a Republic.

That would be an appropriate date.

Welcome back Foxy, yes if/when we become a Republic we can look at changing our flag, it has been done before
Changing our national anthem that too has been done before
And changing Australia day, that too has been done before
My point is bending to the will of so few is never a way to run a country,for the present leave it as is

Dear Belly,

Thanks for the Welcome Back. I've been without a computer
for the past weeks - due to scammers putting in a virus.
My own fault though. I allowed them remote access to my
computer. I believed them when they said they were from
Telstra - and were concerned about my computer security.

I certainly missed all of you. Australia Day is a
controversial issue. However, I think that our British
heritage is something that is part and parcel of this
country.

Foxy If you had a virus on your computer it should take less than one hour to fix, unless the virus was injected into the BIOS which is unlikely.
Time to get another person to fix it for you.

What additional advise or programs did he or she recommend so it does not happen again?

Hi Philip S.,

I've had the drive unit replaced with added security.
Which proved expensive.
They did get into the BIOS - (with my gullible
help). I did exactly as the woman instructed
me. All I can say is anybody claiming to be from Telstra
or NBN - call on the phone - offering to put in security
don't trust them - hang up! I didn't and paid the price.

Foxy At least it is going now and you have received some sound advise to stop it happening again.

That advise also applies more importantly about banks etc the scammers are now claiming to be from lots of organizations.

Having link withdrawal

Hi Philip S.,

It has all been rather unnerving. Especially since the
scammers continued to ring us - even after that experience.
It's really rocked my world. Now anybody that rings with
an "Ïndian" accent puts me on alert immediately - I'm
ashamed to say.

The best advice that I was given came from the local
branch of our police - from a very patient female
constable and from her male sergeant. Also Telstra
Security helped a great deal with advice.
Apparently it's a common problem - and getting
worse.

Dear Belly,

Now back to the topic.

It's occurred to me that January 26th 1788 when Captain
Arthur Philip established a penal colony at Sydney
Cove - that date should be known as "Penal" or "Convict
Day" - not Äustralia Day. Because the unification of
all the States forming a New Nation was not proclaimed until
January 1st 1901 at Centennial Park in Sydney.
So Australia Day should actually be celebrated on or near
that day. (Imagine a double holiday - including New Year).
Either that day or as I wrote earlier - the day that when
and if - we
become a Republic.

Foxy I stand with my thought it is not time to change the day
If we bend to a minority we supper charge more red neck rage
I want to live in an inclusive world
But think it is unlikely until we stop both minority's, left and right, trying to harm inclusiveness
Any change, while 70 percent say they do not want it, is purely divisive

Dear Belly,

Totally agree!

//Because the unification of
all the States forming a New Nation was not proclaimed until
January 1st 1901 at Centennial Park in Sydney.
So Australia Day should actually be celebrated on or near
that day.//

January 1st is already a public holiday.

Just give us back our sorely-missed long weekend, and slightly modify the rhetoric to put the emphasis on a celebration of 21st century Australia rather than 18th century NSW. That's all most of us really want. You'll still get some whiners unhappy with that arrangement, but you're going to have whiners no matter what you do.

foxy: I've had the drive unit replaced with added security. Which proved expensive. They did get into the BIOS - (with my gullible
help). I did exactly as the woman instructed me.

OMG Foxy! How many time have we spoken about Scammers on here & you fell for it. You know. Telstra, Microsoft, The Insurance Scam & the Tax Scam. Gward Struth! No Sympathy. I keep these people on the Phone for an hour at least going around & Around in Circles. Well they're Indian, Chinese, Pilipino. Very hard to understand. Ay. Then, I'm old & find it hard to follow instructions exactly. Ay. Etc, etc. All good fun & never do what they tell me or give them any information. I'm Poor & don't have a Bank Account or a Bank/Credit Card. I walk down to the Post Office (no car) (no mobile phone) & pay my Bill in Cash. Ay. Ahh... such fun.

Now let's see. Hard Drive 2 Terabytes SST $125 (Latest), Norton Security (Full) $125. Installation, $90, if you can't do it yourself.

Regarding Repairs. A simple Full Format would rid you of anything on your old Hard Drive, no need for a new one. Your Norton or MacAfee should have prevented anything from going on there in there first place. Unless you didn't have any Security in the first place. In that case, No Sympathy. Moving the Reset pin on the Mother board clears the BIOS (move the jumper pin over to the other pin, wait 10 seconds, move it back) Fixed. Reload your Windows 10 back on then the Norton Security & the Windows Updates. Then reload your Programmes. Simple as boiling water.

Falling for the scam in the first place. No Sympathy. Bloodie 'ell luv. Shakes head in disgust & disbelief.

Hi Jayb.,

Well you made me smile for the first time.
I've been feeling so down. And Thank You
for your advice.

Big hug!

Well it is here tomorrow is our national day
Some/few will protest, some/few will condemn youth for? being youths and in some view not respecting our flag
rubbish, but some still will complain
We will not change the day
Not yet, never because we bend to minority's
But a day may come when we, the majority want to, and do change
Such is the nature of the few that day will soon be renamed invasion day
Or any name the few can think of, to push their own wheel barrow even if it is upside down and quite useless

Caught the Smoking Ceremony on the news this morn, very interesting to see such a culturally significant event.

I was particularly impressed by the traditional dress of the dancers, the vibrant red of the cloth stood out and the fact that there was not a bare female breast in sight shewed cultural awareness for other Australians.

Anyone know when the "original Australians" started their weaving industry and where they accessed their dyes?

Is Mise: I was particularly impressed by the traditional dress of the dancers, the vibrant red of the cloth stood out and the fact that there was not a bare female breast in sight shewed cultural awareness for other Australians. Anyone know when the "original Australians" started their weaving industry and where they accessed their dyes?

That's what I keep telling them. A recent answer to a Radical.

I take it that you would like to see Whitie leave Australia & only have Aboriginal People here. You realize, of course, that Whitie would have to remove every modern thing from the Country. That also means that you would be back to as you were before the arrival of Whitie.

No clothes. (remember there were no clothes then) No houses, only temporary dwellings for the night. (Gunyas). No Cars. (you get to walk everywhere), No rifles (Pointy sticks & Throwie sticks) to catch food. No steel knives to cut up your kill. (just chuck it on the fire, guts & all.) No Boats Fishing rods or reels or lines. (Fish traps made of stone & sticks) No Phones. (Bull Roarers & yelling) No Matches or Cigarette lighters. (Twirlie sticks & blow gently) No shoes. (bare feet) No Welfare. (Well, there would be nothing to spend it on any way.

Wait, there’s more. You get to go back to Aboriginal Law. If you screw up badly you get speared in the thigh. (throw some ashes on that for medication) If you really screw up then you get tossed out of the Tribe & if you try to come back you get killed. You get to do lots of Witchcraft.

He didn't like it. Ay.

Good Afternoon Everyone,

Today for our family it is a special day.
It's the first anniversary of my mum's
death. Our thoughts go back to last year
this time when mum passed away. I don't
think one is ever ready to experience the
death of their mother - they are always
so present in our lives. The blessing is that
she passed peacefully and that she knew she
was loved. We will miss her - always.

Foxy,

Lovely thoughts, the Day will always be especially special to you.

Jayb,

Don't knock the Indigenous Weaving Industry, they could shew us all some clues, have you never heard of the vast amounts of cotton that was grown in the far west.

"Cotton is seen as a fairly key component for the sustainability of this region," Mr Engelke said."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-08-09/cotton-harvest-comeback-in-the-ord/10082328

Foxy regards and best wishes after the first year without you mum
While we live part of them will too, in our memory's
No good beating about the bush
Saw 5.000 marched against the day in Sydney
Changed channels
But noted most had no first nation blood
Now in truth, many have as much white blood as any of us
Some times activism does more harm than good
Hottest day so far today, still 37 in my lounge room, not game to read out side
Yet on the coast? 32 out side

Hi Is Mise and Belly,

Thanks for your kind words. January 26th will
always be a special day. Not only because it's
the day that my mum died but it's also
my youngest son's wedding anniversary.
Much was lost on this day, but at the same time -
much was gained. We've got a lovely daughter-in-law,
and two grand-children that bring us so much
joy. Also, knowing that mum died peacefully and
knew that she was loved - was a blessing.

As far as Áustralia Day is concerned? It's up to the
voters to decide whether the date should be changed
or not. Personally I'd leave it as is. At least for
now. When and if we become a Republic - we can take
another look.

I want to expand on my view more harm than good would come from forcing a change of day
Yes do gooder,s and just good folk want to change the day
But yesterday we saw a few truly offensive protests
Mostly whites
In my view telling the majority, any time, on any thing, they must bend to a minority is breeding distrust in government
Yes make the day, as we have, a day to remember the past
But never forget had Cook not found the place others would have
In all things find the middle ground
And change the day protesters are not near the middle

Belly: But never forget had Cook not found the place others would have

To add to my Facebook discussion with an Educated Aboriginal Radical.

<Here is a list of the People that were Colonizing the World at that time:

Portuguese, Spanish, French, Belgian, Dutch, Germans & the British.

Take your pick. Just who would you have preferred? Consider how these Countries treated the local Inhabitants over the years. Ask some older Indonesians, Philippians, Vietnamese or Africans

The Dutch didn't think much of the Country after they looked at the West Coast & the Gulf of Carpentaria. Their Report was the land was no good & the people would not make good workers. Apparently a Dutch Captain asked some local Aboriginals to help carry the Water casks down the boats & they refused even after being offered gifts. Dampier's Report was much the same.

Or would you prefer to still be living as you were 80000/200000 years ago.>

Jayb thanks aware of all that, in fact often think of the Belgian Congo
Just think if that item had settled here first
Few know he used English men like the one who died in the Sudan to prseberve his laws
In the end racism is always wrong
And too by today's standards, that is important, today's standards
We and Americans treated our first people very very badly
But as most do not want to change the day,can we see only division can come from doing i

Belly: But as most do not want to change the day, can we see only division can come from doing it.

The only ones that want to change the day are the Redfern Radicals & their Socialist Buddies. Best just to ignore them.

Belly: We and Americans treated our first people very very badly.

I don't think we treated our indigenous people as badly as is made out by the Socialist Radicles. Certainly it wasn't good. Much better than the Americans though.

Did you know that the very first American President was an African, John Milton 1781-2. Known as a Moor. Have a look on the back of an American $2.

George Washington was actually the ninth.

Dwight Eisenhower the 34th President. His mother was a orphan mullato, Ida Stover & his father was a German immigrant David Jacob Eisenhower.

jayb I am warned by people who come up with socialist radicals in conversation
Yes they exist, in numbers big enough to fill three combi wagons
Yes Redfern radicals exist, in about the same numbers
Just maybe far right drongos out number them both
I refereed to things done then measured against today's standards
And not just here but every single place colonialists put a foot down, natives suffered
Please do not let your dislike of the combi convoy blacken your view of the whole
I assure you, in your view, not mine, I am one of the Socially active lefty's
Yet this thread, like so very much, proves my/our view is not unlike yours in this matter

Belly: I refereed to things done then measured against today's standards

That's the problem, isn't it. Those things, done in the far distant past are being measured by the Socialist Educated Redfern Radicals against todays standards.

Belly: And not just here but every single place colonialists put a foot down, natives suffered.

I agree, but compared to the other colonialists, the British were less cruel on a personal level as well as at a Governmental level.

Belly: Please do not let your dislike of the combi convoy blacken your view of the whole.

I don't. Just because I dislike the Redfern Radicals Racist attitudes doesn't mean I dislike Aboriginals. Most Aboriginals are nice people. Even some of the Radicals are nice people. It's just that I disagree with their attitude towards White people. They have been brainwashed by University Socialist/Marxists who have an agenda of Divide & Rule.

The ones I really dislike are the ones who have been Geed up by the Socialist/Marxists. The ones they know they can easily make them dance to their violence tune. the Angry ones.

As concerns Right Wing Radicals. There are far fewer of them then there are of the Left Wing Variety. They are easier to name than the Lefties. I don't like them either. If the Socialist ever gain power the Right Wing ones would be going for a short flight over the ocean with a lead balloon, as is the tradition in Socialist Countries.

jayb first yes our first people did not in truth have a culture as we know it
And yes they did not move forward as fast as some other races did
But the fact remains Britain did just as many cruel things as other colonialists
The middle east, even India and Pakistan, show the troubles left in England's foot steps
A better world needs togetherness not division
Invasion day, when used, tells me the speaker is a fool

Belly: our first people did not in truth have a culture as we know it
And yes they did not move forward as fast as some other races did.

The real fact is they were still back at the 200000 year mark with no improvement beyond that.

Belly: But the fact remains Britain did just as many cruel things as other colonialists. The middle east, even India and Pakistan, show the troubles left in England's foot steps.

No where near as bad as any of the other Colonials treated their Indigenous People. In fact compared to other Colonialists the British were saintly. Vietnam, Indonesia, anywhere in Africa & South America. It was the Spanish "Oreo" who wiped out much of the civilized population of the North American Indians. ig; the Mississippian Culture. Seminole Culture & the Californian Culture.

Belly: A better world needs togetherness not division.

I agree. You tell the Redfern Radicles & their Socialist/Marxist Masters that. They are the ones trying to create Division. Whitie is trying desperately to bring it together & bring the ones that are lagging behind into the 21st. Century. The people that are preventing that togetherness are the University Educated Aboriginal CEO's & their Masters.

I'd still like to know where they get that vibrant traditional red cloth from; my best guess is China.

jayb, mate, how many Redfern radicals do you think exist?
My point is, as said here, by us both, minority's are not driving the car
Willing to be One Nation has more followers than your highlighted group
And too the very right out number the very left
Believe me, Labor has long ago, left its days wandering in the wilderness looking for a Socialist utopia behind
The very left, and yes small numbers exist even in my party, are lost in a world that never existed
It will always be my view, unity is humanity's only sane path
Finding reason to unite not divide

Belly: jayb, mate, how many Redfern radicals do you think exist?

Just going on the Demonstrations of the past few days. Quite a lot. Watching Levi's interview (on the news) most of them don't even know why they are Demonstrating. They are just doing it because. "They'll fail their Uni Course if they don't attend."

As told to me by an Professor Ex neighbor who teaches at James Cook. When asked some simple questions, they couldn't answer, so they resorted to nasty remarks.

We have a few of those Radical Aboriginal Teachers here in Beauy. They teach the kids on Saturday down at the Aboriginal Centre.

My wife plays Cards with some ladies & one day they were playing at home when one ladies grandchild turned up all covered in white paint. He'd just come from Aboriginal Class. Well was he badmouthing Whitie. His Grandmothers white. Well he was going on about what whitie had done to the Aboriginals & how much he hated Whitie. She was trying to console him.

I said leave him to me. So we got some cake, biscuits & Coke & went outside. I asked him a few questions & found out just what this fellow had been teaching them. We discussed it for about an hour & I calmed him down. He was wild. (understatement) I asked him if he hated his grandma. "No." That night the local aboriginal kids, all about 10 years old went on a rampage, smashing things around Beauy.

Job done the Aboriginal Teacher was definitely proud of his work that day. Now you know why so many Aboriginal kid are in trouble with the Police & where the future Radicals are coming from. they are being trained. The professors & Teachers don't get into trouble, but these kids do. It's all Whities fault.

here's a good example of British Colonialism:

"INDIAN ARMY

16th Battalion The Madras Regiment (Travancore) celebrates 200th Anniversary today. ‘Battle of Basantar’ during 1971 war saw unit in action & being honoured with Battle & Theatre Honours ‘Basantar & Punjab’ respectively. Won 2 MVC & 5 VrC besides many other awards."

and that's only one unit of the many that trace their proud history back to the days of the Raj.
http://www.indianarmy.nic.in/home

Then on a more mundane level are the roads, the railways, the ports, electricity etc.

and, of course, Democracy and the Rule of Law.
see:http://ox.libguides.com/c.php?g=422964&p=2888488 on the Legal System.

jayb can you understand my view the very right are every bit as provocative as the Redfern radicals you highlight?
Or for that matter the very left
We are after all human, continuing the school yard fight both promote is leading only to more strife
Once, seems like a thousand years ago, humanity claimed to want inclusiveness, sadly not now
You and I apparently from different sides of politics, agree in this matter
The majority, on both sides do, see polling
So take on the Redfern radicals but do not feed them by making them look in any way, big in number
Re the India thing, ask Gandhi

Belly,

"Re the India thing, ask Gandhi"

Good idea, he was an admirer of the British Empire and the good that it did.

" Shortly after returning to India, he proposed a toast to the British Empire at a dinner of the Madras Bar Association in March 1915, saying: “I discovered the British Empire had certain ideas with which I have fallen in love and one of those ideals is that every subject of the British Empire has the freest scope for his energies and efforts.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/10954147/Nine-facts-you-may-not-know-about-Mahatma-Gandhi.html

Suggest that you read a bit about the Mahatma before putting finger to keys.

is mise good morning, we will never see eye to eye, you have every right to your view
By today's standard the British Empire that gave us this country was no saint
Yet my convict stock past from Wales Ireland and Britain, is not some thing I am ashamed of

Belly,

You said that the British were as bad as all the other colonial powers, and when I queried that assertion, you said to ask Gandhi.

Gandhi obviously disagreed with you and you did offer him as a source for your argument.

Why won't you acknowledge that you are wrong about the British and agree with Gandhi?

Of course we should be big enough to change the date. It matters very little to most Australians what date it is on as long as it is in summer, involves a long weekend, and there is booze available.

We would all like us to be able to enjoy the blessings this country has bestowed on so many. However the current date is divisive in that a decent number of our indigenous brothers and sisters quite understandably have an issue with it.

We really should be as laid back as we like to think we are and just say 'no worries let's just shift the thing and be done' while acknowledging any supposed allegiance to the 26th is pretty shallow compared to the significance it holds to many indigenous folk.

I do have an issue with how this debate is being framed, especially by both the Greens and the conservatives. We should have had it sorted well before now in a move that would have brought us together rather than drawing battle lines.

"However the current date is divisive in that a decent number of our indigenous brothers and sisters quite understandably have an issue with iT"

Indeed they do, it's a commemoration of the day that forebears of the people who provide the 'sit-down-money' arrived.

More 'sit-down-money' might help, but any other day that commemorates the yanking of the indigenous locals into the modern world would be resented, change the date and the protest would shift to the new date.

steelredux been waiting for you, in truth Joe [loudmouth] too
But let me be clear if we continue to let minority's left or right over rule majority's we are dead meat
No one here is more pro first nation
But in truth we, yes you too, often let fear of being said to be racist stop us talking about truth
I am white, my mum and dad too, yet two siblings, PRETENDED to be first nation
For gain
Thousands have done this
IF you win, IF we change the day, very soon after it will be renamed *invasion day*
Can we talk about those who would not be here today without their purely white ancestors
Remember our past honor our first people include them in the day
But while only a minority, even of them, want change? over my dead body
inclusiveness never division

Dear Belly,

Whenever someone says something like you just did “Can we talk about those who would not be here today without their purely white ancestors” I just look to my neck of the woods. The tens of thousands of Aborigines who inhabited what is now known as Victoria were reduced to less than 200 within 50 years. The tribes around places like Camperdown lasted even less than that.

The few surviving ancestors of those leading rich cultural lives before the settlers invaded their lands have every right to dismiss your words as ignorant and conteptable.

So it seems you are wedded to the date not for and real cultural significance, not for any real historical significance, and not for any real personal significance, but more because you resent being imposed upon by people you have taken a dislike to.

And then you think you get to call them divisive? That it is you who wants inclusiveness?

Pigs arse mate.

Many, granted not all, of our indigenous brothers and sisters, do have real cultural, historical and in many cases personal problems with accepting that date as one they can celebrate.

What about changing it to May the 25th, the date of the 67 referendum? Or June the 3rd when or High Court passed its judgement on the Mabo case?

Don't you think they were great strides in this county's unity as one people, where we became better than what we had been?

Or are you just hell bent on keeping the wound festering because you are intent on keeping your mind and your heart small?

January 26th is not the anniversary of a massacre but of the peaceful beginning of the building of an amazing modern nation. It's worth celebrating the achievement from that very start, not some date marking redress to the consequently disaffected.

Nobody can attribute to others a negative motive for celebration, just as nobody can tell the disaffected how they should feel.

Australia Day is a day for honesty, and all feelings about the foundation of its existence should be publicly vented. It's similar to Anzac day in that respect. Does Anzac Day glorify war? Does Australia day glorify what happened to aborigines? Let debate roll on each year

steelredux do not think I do not know or that I in any way want to forget it
Look my siblings used the rule that if a community excepts you as Aboriginal you are, soon after breaking off the relationships
FRAUDULENTLY tell me it is not true, [Bolt suffered because of this truth] many are in part white
Look at some of the claims from the once Canberra tent embassy
A percentage of our gross national product
Such claims breed hate, divide, in the end hurt those asking for them
do not use murders done by others hundreds of years ago'
Use the debate to unite not divide

Steelie: Or are you just hell bent on keeping the wound festering because you are intent on keeping your mind and your heart small?

The only people keeping the wound open after opening it in the first place is people like you. A Socialist who likes to load the gun for others to pull the trigger. All so you can impose your evil Socialism/Marxism on Australia.

Should we attack the Normans for invading England Or the Persians for invading Egypt. The people they invaded were at least civilized by the standards of their day, which is more than can be said for the Aboriginals still living as they were 200000 years ago.

On a rather funny note. A lot of the people demonstrating were asked what they were demonstrating about. Most of them couldn't really say & those that did said they were demonstrating against the day Captain Cook invading Australia. All these people from Universities too. All highly educated. Hee hee hee, Oops.

Dear Belly,

Mate, the massacres will still in full swing even at the turn of the last century and were finally pulled up as late as the 1920s. Still within living memory.

“The Coniston massacre, which took place near the Coniston cattle station in the then Territory of Central Australia (now the Northern Territory) from 14 August to 18 October 1928, was the last known officially sanctioned massacre of Indigenous Australians and one of the last events of the Australian Frontier Wars. People of the Warlpiri, Anmatyerre, and Kaytetye groups were killed. The massacre occurred in revenge for the death of dingo hunter Frederick Brooks, killed by Aboriginal people in August 1928 at a place now known as Yukurru, also known as Brooks Soak.
Official records at the time stated that 17 people were killed. The owner of Coniston station, Randall Stafford, was a member of the punitive party for the first few days and estimated that at least twice that number were killed between 14 August and 1 September. Word of mouth reports imagine that at least 60, possibly as many as 110 Aboriginal men, women, and children were killed. The Warlpiri, Anmatyerre, and Kaytetye believe that up to 170 died between 14 August and 18 October.”
Wikipedia

But that is not the issue is it.

You think some people are scamming the system and undoubtedly there are. But most are not. There are some who are claiming veteran's benefits without being entitled to them but that doesn't stop us honouring and funding services for returned service personnel.

Nothing in your last post gives me any impetus to change my assessment of the reasons you have for trying to hold steadfast to a relatively arbitrary date.

And to be perfectly clear mate they do not come within a bull's roar of the reasons some of our indigenous folk want to have it shifted so they too can join their fellow Australians in celebrating this fine country.

Belly,

How're you going on Gandhi?

You might like to read,
http://notevenpast.org/gandhi-the-imperialist/

from which I have taken the following,

"... and Gandhi waged one of his most conspicuous campaigns on behalf of the British.[Boer War] He organized an “ambulance corps” of no fewer than 11,000 Indians, who helped wounded soldiers find their way to field hospitals, often by bearing them on stretchers. In the fierce battle of Scion Cot [sic. Spion Kop] in Natal, Gandhi, with the discipline of a sergeant major, led his volunteers through rough terrain in blistering heat and heavy fire to save British lives. The Indian volunteers found the terrain so rough that stretchers proved impossible to use, so injured soldiers had to be carried individually. Gandhi’s bravery proved that he was willing to sacrifice his own life to save the lives of others and, in this case, to further the purposes of the British Empire."

Is that the same Gandhi that you used to back up your claims?

is mise once more, you use a confrontation style that baffles me
Are you aware, think before answering, every view has every right to be seen
And that while you very very clearly seem to want to confront with your questions I may be right
Gandhi is in my view one of the three greatest humans in my lifetime
He first fought for human rights in South Africa.
He while he may or may not have admired Britain, fought them
See the salt riots, tell me your sainted British did not murder innocents
Is mise are you first generation English
Why do you leap to their defense on any subject
Gandhi, the great great man watched a British practice used before in the middle east divide countrys and we can still see the result

Belly,

Gandhi fought for Indians' rights in South Africa, he had no interest in the rights of other Africans, in fact, he referred to them as 'kaffirs' and Gandhi, whilst seen as a man of peace, in fact, used violence.
He knew full well that British authorities in India could be stirred to violence and he used that violence to his own ends and noble as those ends were, they could not have succeeded without the violence that he deliberately sought.

"Are you aware, think before answering, every view has every right to be seen"
Yes, even distasteful ones and erroneous ones, your's on the British and on Gandhi fall into the latter category.
Are you aware that every view can be challenged?

I'm only partly English and am predominantly Irish and Scots (of recent generations, last five hundred years or so) and can count among my ancestors saints and scholars, kings and queens, patricides, matricides, fratricides, common murderers, thieves and some good folk from a variety of ethnic groups.

is mise sure you will not mind me having my own views about the great man
The thread however is about in my view, some not so great men and women trying to divide this country

Belly,

You are perfectly entitled to have your own views about the Mahatma, but take off the rosy glasses.

is mise it is YOUR view I have rose colored glasses on
Do you not see?
Just maybe it is you who are wrong

Dog chasing its own tail, best describes this thread
History reminds us Gandhi in fact fought for the freedom of his people from English colonialism
He fought, and died because of it, against the partition of his country India/Pakistan
Yet because of a posters personal view we are asked to believe he loved Mother England
Clear eyed observers will have noted I am making every effort to be more mature in my posts
Stay away from closed minds, or minds in fact not just closed but, unable to think like most
We do travel far from threads intended path
But this side track is so very far from subject I wounder if we are able to even glance at the true subject of most threads

I read Nehru's biography of Ghandi. I learned later that the Nehru family bought into the Ghandi name by apparently marrying into a Ghandi name (not the Ghandi we know)- apparently for political purposes. I think Indira Ghandi may have been a relative of Nehru not Mahatma Ghandi. It's possible that the glittering generalities of Ghandi may be deified for the ascension of the Nehru legacy. Ise Mise please correct my misunderstanding.

CM still unsure about that post
Are you in fact trying to weaken the great mans reputation
For me at least he existed with or without others who had his name
His acts during his life stand unchallenged