Now_Not.Soon- The Left (Social Libertarians) appear to consist of two groups the radicals (that understand) and the "feel good people" (do gooders- useful idiots- don't understand). The radicals from experience are in the extreme minority- but are highly influential.

To ttbn

Wish I could argue with you about the left, but your observations are correct. The kindness of the left isn't kind at all. But they think it is. And that's an issue in itself. Lead around by lies and misdirection, where giving support to a cause in the left philosophy is the same as giving a solution to a problem, and not giving support to a cause is enough to be a villain in your own right. A pack of lies mixed with a blindness to see results or to not worry about trashing what was built on for generations is a dangerous road to travel. But that's the road I see over and over again on left politics and left politicians.

To ArmChair Critic. Nice rebuttal. I those are the issues as I've understood them from a conservative stance.

To Canem Malum. Thankyou. It just seems that the place is divided by political philosophies without really addressing the issues within those philosophies.

ttbn,
1. Although false dichotomies can be used to force people into extreme positions, that's not a defining feature.

Peter Smith is falsely implying that we have only two choices: helping disadvantaged Aussies and helping Syrian asylum seekers. But those options are not mutually exclusive – we could and should help both. And of course there's technically a fourth option, since many on the Right would prefer to help neither.

2. A lot on the Right oppose the government helping disadvantaged Aussies, as they see it as a waste of taxpayers' money. Some spout rhetoric about wanting to give a hand up not a hand out, but then fail to follow through with a hand up - and also fail to recognise that a hand out is often a necessary first step in a hand up.

The Right tend to be much better at spin than the left. Most people are under the false impression that the Right are much stronger on the economy than the Left are, even though the reverse is the case. Howard's Battlers were seduced by the lie that Labor were anti-aspirational, but meanwhile more the tax burden was shifted onto them and off the rich.

Hillary Clinton lost the election for three reasons: firstly she was an abysmal campaigner; secondly people fell for the lies about her, and thirdly there was a lot of anger about the economy not having recovered as well as people were saying it had. That last factor was mainly due to the Hooverites in Congress controlling the purse strings. Trump has at least solved that problem, buying them off with tax cuts for the rich.

3. You seem to be implying people genuinely fleeing for their lives are a figment of the imagination, or that if they're not willing to wait in a refugee camp for forty years then it proves their not genuine. Is that really what you think? If not, please clarify your position.

4. Refugees have a right to keep going until they feel safe. Can't you comprehend they may not feel safe in Malaysia or Indonesia?

Aiden- I really don't think there is any point in discussing refugees with you because you believe you are right just as I do.

ttbn (continued)
5. Whether there is something cruel about detaining people who've attempted to get here by boat depends on the conditions in which they're detained and for how long. Indefinite detention in conditions worse than prison is extremely cruel.

6. AIUI the vast majority become taxpayers, and most of the rest play a supporting role, enabling their husbands to work long hours. But initially getting people into the workforce can be difficult even for Australians, let alone for refugees.

> I also suspect that you don't care much “disadvantaged Aussies” yourself.
It looks like you've fallen for that false dichotomy too.

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Not_Now.Soon,
It's a generalisation rather than a false dichotomy. I certainly don't deny there are other choices.

And I think most people on the Right genuinely believe their rhetoric. They support policies they think will lead to a better society and a stronger economy – despite having the opposite effect.

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Armchair,
For a sovereign currency issuing nation like Australia, debt is little more than an accounting identity. We will never need to eliminate our debt, but nor will there ever be any danger at all of us not being able to service it. Though there's an interest cost, that's more than made up for by the ability to invest in our future.

And I'm not saying that every refugee without documentation should get automatic entry onto our streets. Of course they should be vetted by ASIO.

>I don't want a system based on 'should'.
It would be much nicer if we could always predict what will work. But life doesn't work like that. So a better course of action is to monitor things to see if they work as they should, and if not, determine why and make adjustments accordingly.

Aidan,

Thanks for confirming that everything I have said about you is true. You are out of touch with reality. Nothing can be done for you.