Hasbeen yes we no longer make electrical s here
We in truth could never match wages and other costs from our now producers
Do we want to? or do we still think paying a living wage is preferred over working poor
World trade
Two words not swear words, we gain in some areas and fall in others
IF we did not have it? could not export our coal and minerals
Wool? grains?
Banana Republic would not cover it

We in truth could never match wages and other costs from our now producers
Belly,
Ok, you were one of those fighting for ever increasing wages so, in your expertise what is the solution ? A Labor Govt ? If so, how ?
What could they do now they couldn't manage after all their years in power ?
No smart-ar$e reply, a real answer please.

Hasbeen, mhaze, surprisingly Belly - Good call on the economics. There are too many people. Any large area of productive land should be able to support the people living on it. Then import/ exports/ forex are irrelevant.

Hasbeen,
Exports do not need to be centrally planned! We can do what we're good at and export what we're competitive in. You can find a list of our biggest exports at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exports_of_Australia

I know you know that our agricultural production is limited by what's economic, not what's technically possible to grow. So I don't know what point you're trying to make. Do you doubt our agricultural exports rise when our dollar falls?

________________________________________________________________________________________

mhaze,
Sorry, I hadn't realised you were still stuck on the basic stuff. It's probably going to take a while to explain, so let me know when you think something I say doesn't make sense.

Currency trading is a continuous process even though it isn't smooth. But even though it's chaotic, it's much smoother than managed devaluations would be.

>Well no one was talking about slashing wages but nice deflection.

It wasn't meant as a deflection. There are people on this board who think that will be our only option.

>But now that you raise it, a devaluation isn't better than slashing wages, its the same.
NO IT ISN'T!
People (and businesses) have existing financial commitments. Slashing wages makes it much harder to meet them. A lower dollar does not.
(tbc)

mhaze (continued)
>Aidan, I get that you and your ilk want to avoid the discipline of not borrowing against the future
The problem is you think borrowing is against the future, when it's actually FOR the future.

Think about it another way: how low would interest rates have to go before you consider taking on more debt to be a better course of action than paying it off?

>- spend now, let someone else worry about it later.
Quite the reverse: when it's spent is the time to worry about it. Deficits and surpluses matter, just not in the way you think they do.

>But the bill will come. It will come in the form of higher inflation,
Higher inflation is a likely outcome if the deficit's too high (though government spending's no more inflationary than private spending) but it's not a result of debt.

>higher interest rates
More debt won't make the RBA board set interest rates higher.

>and reduced living standards.
Economic downturns, resulting from too little spending, are a much bigger threat to living standards.

>At some point, either discipline will be imposed (and those doing so will be tagged as cruel)
>or spiralling economic decline will ensue.
The "fiscal discipline" you so admire is the MAIN CAUSE of economic decline. When there's too little money, there's too little opportunity for businesses to make money, and they wind back production and sack employees. Hence the huge contraction of the Greek economy when they ran out of money.

>Venezuela is worst case. But Greece is very much on the horizon.
Greece had surrendered its financial sovereignty when it joined the Euro, so its credit was limited. Unlike Greece and Venezuela, Australia has unlimited credit.

Indy wasting time is a hobby of mine at this age so lets try it
Wasting?
Yes anything I say will not please you
First unionism is not about hating the boss
Not about class warfare, unless its the thugs and mugs unions, CFMEU for a start
Fair days pay for a fair days work
Some early British industrialists seemed to agree, the built housing for their workers even churches
Workers wages should feed and house them and let them educate and look after the kids
Your seeming wish , ever lower wages results in a lower class for workers
Equity in all things, a life worth living, is not evil
The old fair go mate could write reems of pages about why fair wages is a must but as I said at the start you will not believe it