Paul not a lot not to agree with there BUT
Personal experence has shown me, with all those things against the kids,doing nothing will not work
Sure you know such kids too, they some times think detention is a holiday
Or a chance to learn the trade
I can never join the cuddle a convict crowd
My view remains we can do much better
Should do much better
And education, along with seperation from the bad company we know exists, in detention too, is a start

Hi Belly,

I agree, //I can never join the cuddle a convict crowd//. Sometimes people confuse those wanting to prevent and improve a one way hard line penal system with what you say. I believe, you do the crime you do the time, What I favour is an emphasis on prevention, rather than punishment. Given the knocks old lags have taken in life, very little chance of reform through the system, many of these people are doomed to be societies failures. Successful reform is not new, Governor Macquarie was successful with convict reform in the early 1800's, like today, his reforms had its detractors as well. Where we do have the best chance of prevention today is with young people, and magistrates recognise that.

WW a magistrate in Sydney, now retired, told me some years back of his disappointment with the system and its failures, he spoke of the consternation and frustration he often felt when dealing with habitual young offenders.

Paul yes agree, some would hide the fact but you can not come from a family as big as mine and not know some of the failures
Even see some think being confined is something to be proud of
My true FEAR is some truly think 16 should be the age of responsibility
Others are content to brand every offender a thug
Not understanding, on both sides is not helping
Those calling for national service in my view wrongly, should consider education while in confinement at least is better

Indy, are you still blaming Gough for all the perceived woes in the world. Take a look at that bunch of self serving, useless fools in Canberra. The Abbott/Turnbull/Morrison circus is the worse government in living memory. I suppose you will be trying to vote them back in.

"My view remains we can do much better"

Of course we can Belly, but first we have to go back to doing things based on merit.
- And then we use this system of merit to look at all the Pro's and Con's of every single issue.

And it's only then - when we look at all the Pro's and Con's of every single issue, separating all the arguments that do hold merit from the arguments that don't hold merit, and for each issue we devise a foolproof plan.

Based on merit.

- And No we can't give up on these kids;
(but they do need to learn there are consequences for their actions)
- Even though we're already convinced they're a total write-off and we know that they continue to harm others
- Because the second they feel like society has given up on them entirely then they really have no reason at all to care about their actions anymore either.

ArmChair Critic that could have been my post agree with every word
If fact in NSW at least the thought the age should be 16, in my view abandons both the kids and their victims
Early intervention, not with eyes only on punishment must be considered
Yes some can not be helped
That should not stop us trying
Parents sometimes, are the problem not the kids
Frothing at the mouth rage will not fix it
Just maybe removing the bad company and replacing it with leadership and education can.
Indy, give some thought to your bias, if as you think events in 1972 till 1975 still hold this country back we are a poor section of humanity, for not fixing it