A man shot by police after stabbing three people in Melbourne's Bourke Street has died.

Police shot the man in the chest after he charged at the police officers with a knife. The man shot died in hospital.

Some put comments online like: "You are a hero. Well done". Why is someone a hero for killing someone else with a gun? Why do two wrongs make a right? What ever happened to the sanctity of life?

One woman affected by recent gun shootings in the United States, came out and said: "I don't wan't any more prayers, I want gun control".

So this is why I will not support a selective approach to gun violence. It's an all or nothing approach. This could lead to more or less killing through gun use, but aren't a good percentage of people looking for less gun related violence?

What happened to the baton? Why is there no technology apart from "shoot in the chest"? Roman gladiators had nets , shields and tridents but today it's just a fatal pistol bullet.

expandable baton police extendable friction lock telescopic ASP ...
www.safecity.com.au/expandable.htm
Expandable baton in Australia, telescopic, friction lock extendable baton ... your knees when you are running (the police long baton does this very efficiently).

Nothing about why the person was shot, Nathan! This is an absurd comment by a person clearly incapable of rational thinking

ttbn
what?
who?

Mainstream Australia will never agree with our author
Watching the vermin trying to kill even more my fear was he may have killed a cop
In fact that very very brave young cop held his ground too long, unlike in another country we could talk about
Police did the right thing
Efforts to undermine them may make the next cop a dead cop
I do however want to underline the thought behind this is just as stupid as Islamophobia or radical Islam
see you in another thread

A man with a cafe knife was shot dead here by police. Self defence is meant to be proportional to the threat. Knives don't shoot bullets which is why the man with shopping trolley was able to hit the man.

To my mind the cops need a medal and they saved us the expense of a court and the perpetrators accomodation for a few years.

Shooting him sends him straight to heaven for martyrs , thanks to co-operating police.

More silly comments come from Morrison, who whined that the Muslim 'community' had to do something. Rubbish! He and all the politicians who allowed, even encouraged, Muslim immigration are the people who have to fix the damage they have caused.

I agree!

We shouldn't be shooting this crap we have let into the country in the body.

We need to train our cops better, so they can shoot them between the eyes.

Hassy, is that on top of the 200 million Muslims, men women and children, babies included, in Pakistan you believe should be nuked? You really have a thing about killing, don't you!

Nathan J,

" Why is someone a hero for killing someone else with a gun? Why do two wrongs make a right? What ever happened to the sanctity of life?"

Because he undoubtedly saved other lives by ending that of the perp, incidentally his own life was in obvious danger so he had the added justification of self defence when in fear of his own life.

Two wrongs don't make a right but in his case it was one wrong and one right (and in the right was the issue .40 Smith & Wesson semi-automatic pistol).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_M%26P

The sanctity of human life went out the window for the terrorist when he murdered a defenceless man, stabbed two others and threatened the lives of policemen.

Nathan,

Dumb arse. What do you think WOULD have happened if the police hadn't shot that terrorist (because that's what he was) ? Would he have suddenly realised how evil it was to kill defenceless people (since Islam is a religion of peace) and laid down, like a lion with the lamb ? Or could it have been possible for him to kill all of those police officers, go into the nearest cafe and start butchering everybody inside ?

And yes he was a follower of ISIS, of the fascist notion of a caliphate in Australia. He was a Muslim terrorist. Was his ideology extremist ? No, it was standard Islam ? Yes, it was a fascist fringe ideology of Islam ?

The imams (or Anne Aly) didn't do themselves any favours by inferring that a description of him as a terrorist flowed over to the entire Muslim community, a connection that not too many Australians would have made. But if the imams and Aly want to make the links, it's on their heads.

Nathan: compete dumb arse. But as long as you were nowhere near the scene, your hands are clean and your mind is pure and incredibly virtuous.

Joe

Nathan,

Policemen are trained to protect. That's their job. And
in this case that's exactly what the officers were
doing. They behaved professionally and extremely competently.
They did what they had to do - shooting the man only when nothing
else worked. They tried pepper sprays and tasers - they
did not work. No one likes to kill another human being but in
this case the police were left with no other choice. The man
had to be stopped before he could inflict more harm and
kill others.

Dear NathanJ,

You wrote;

“What ever happened to the sanctity of life?”

Quite a reasonable question illustrating a degree of humanity most of the keyboard warriors posting here obviously lack. Hold your head high old chap.

Yes tasers can be very effective in bringing down knife wielding offenders.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1186351/Shocking-moment-Police-taser-knife-wielding-man-Hackney.html

And there is no doubt the training in this country has a greater reliance on the use of firearms. From my understanding the usual approach in this state is to have one officer try and use a taser to subdue the knife wielding offender but there will be a second officer standing behind with a decent field of fire. It is accepted that to get within tasering distance they are also within range of a lunge with a knife.

The ultimate judgement lies with the officer with the firearm. If the taser fails to incapacitate for whatever reason and it is followed by imminent threat to his/her partner then lethal force is deployed.

In England a different emphasis is obvious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9TFvh6Xps4

In countries where knife use is possibly more prevalent then other forms of non-lethal options have been adopted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqtny9yj8u8

In Japan the are called Sasumata.

http://inventorspot.com/articles/teachers_expel_school_intruder_twopronged_people_pusher

So should it be an option in Australia? Why not? Mentally ill people do not deserve to die at the hands of our police if other means are available. We should also think of the impact on officers involved taking someones life.

I am a little confused Nathan. Would you have liked the killer to be clubbed to death slowly. Would that have been more humane? Would you prefer the tax payer support him at 100000 a year in prison and pay thousands to sleazy lawyer who might even of got him off. Of course the policeman was a hero. I doubt you or I would like to face some Islamic maniac waving a knife calling on Allah having just already killed an innocent man. Are you trying to politicise some sad narrative?

Is Mise
"The standard iron sights are of the three dot type and made of steel. Both the front and rear sights are dove-tailed into the slide, and can be horizontally drifted to adjust for windage correction".

Sights can be used for sighting which allows the driver to steer the bullet up / down and left/right. There are various locations on the human body which can then be aimed at , delivering the slug to the desired location , at the Police Officer's discretion and selection.

Steele,

Highly commendable, but anyone who is threatened with a knife who lets the attacker get within 15 feet can wind up dead, so why take the risk?
The mentally disturbed can kill just a quickly as the absolute sane.

Golden Rule, if in immediate fear of one's life, kill.

Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte has said he stabbed a person to death when he was a teenager.

"At 16, I killed someone," he told Filipinos in the Vietnamese city of Da Nang, where he is attending a regional summit. He said he stabbed the person "just over a look". Mr Duterte has previously said he killed criminal suspects as mayor of the city of Davao.

The Filipino leader is attending the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (Apec) summit, alongside regional leaders and US President Donald Trump. He didn't kill Trump for his critical comments.

Steele,

Did you forget about the British transport Policeman who was stabbed multiple times or are you being selective?

Have a read about him here,
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/01/london-bridge-attack-wayne-marques-police-officer-planning-to-return-to-work

then tell us why he shouldn't have been armed with a pistol, which would have given him a fighting chance.

His attackers,
"Youssef Zaghba, Khuram Butt and Rachid Redouane killed eight people during the attack. They deliberately drove a van into people on London Bridge before stabbing people in Borough Market, where all three were shot dead by police.

The Guardian has learned that BTP are reviewing the number of armed officers they have and where they should be deployed, following the experience of their officer facing terrorists unarmed and suffering extensive injuries.

BTP are setting up two new armed counter-terrorism centres in Birmingham and Manchester, with officers already armed at stations in London. One option, among several being examined, is making them the first British police force that directly protects the public to become fully armed."

NNN

Shooting dead terrorists also ensures they will not re-offend.

Can't argue with that . Wife-bashers , drunk drivers, tax evaders , corrupt pollies , rabbit poachers , handkerchief stealers .
bang
finish

Well Nathan. You slipped up on this one. But, you really were daft to bring up 'gun control' in the context a sworn police officer doing his duty and protecting the public from a Muslim terrorist - even though he took his time over it.

What about knife control, terror control, Nathan. This prick stabbed to death a popular Australian man who went to his aid. Grow up, boy.

Well back, just need to warn the non-right they play with bombs.
Middle Australia is happy the fool is dead
Too they want now and always very much more firmness with radicals
We say we do not export terrorism, that is crap
We informed Indonesian police about the Bali drug smugglers why not put them on the plan cancel their citizenship and inform the country before they arrive
Terrorists are not teddy bears

Belly,

One of your more well thought out posts.

A translation would help though.

Teddy bears?
Neither are NRL and AFL forwards. Real men shoot it out, the State of Origin needs machine-gunners and grenade chuckers. With beer slabs to winners handed out by Police commissioners.

Dear Is Mise,

You really couldn't help yourself could you. Where did I say anything about the arming or otherwise of the police in any country?

All I was doing was illustrating that non-lethal forms of dealing with often mentally ill, knife wielding, offenders have been adopted with demonstrable success in other countries and then making the point that they should be examined for our country. Our own police accept that nearly 50% of their confrontations with those who threaten police with knives are mentally ill at the time.

Now to your wet dream. You might feel a mighty (sorry make that little) throbbing between your legs at the thought of mostly unarmed policing in the UK being a thing of the past. But then you would be quite happy seeing terrorists erode what had been a way of life for the Brits, where their average bobby did not carry a lethal weapon with them doing general policing. Well I'm not. It would be another victory for the terrorist but one I now know would see you applauding with gusto.

What if police were to receive a broader training?

They could still be armed, but instead of being
taught to just target the head or the chest - they
were taught to target other "non-lethal" parts of
the body to stop an assailant, for example, the legs,
or arms? Thus not killing the perpetrators but simply
wounding them and stopping them in their tracks.

Foxy,

And if the perp has a gun?
Shooting to wound is all very well in the movies, but doesn't work out too well in real life.

Steele,

People who attack with knives wish to kill, the person attacked, police or civilian, should not have to make a judgement as to the mental health or intentions of the attacker, preserving one's own life takes priority.

Fortunately, the Bourke St murderer was not adept with the knife so only one was killed and two injured.

Isn't it wonderful, our brave Steely & Paul are happy to play hero with some cops life, in favour of some garbage that is not worth saving.

Easy for these clowns to be brave, when safely far away from danger.

I'd like to see the whites of their eyes if personally responsible for implementing the rubbish they want a cop to do for them. It w3ould be hard though. All we would see would be their tail between their legs from behind as they fled. All talk with no responsibility, no wonder they make me sick.

//Police shot the man in the chest after he charged at the police officers with a knife.//

Sounds reasonable.

Although why the police don't make better use of their tasers is something of a mystery to me.

Given that there are at least 400 potential terrorists admitted by authorities in Australia, piles of flowers after an act of terrorism and weasel words from politicians are not going to protect us. Given that these jihadis and would be jihadis have no loyalty to Australia - or any other country - but only to the their clan or family, terror experts are suggesting that the only solution is to deport them, along with their families. And of course, stop all! immigration from Islamic countries.

ANU's Professor Clive Williams has no doubts that deporting whole families of convicted terrorists would open the flood gates of intelligence from families about family members who have become radicalised – and be generally effective from a counterterrorism point of view.

But, in a society such as ours increasingly more interested in 'rights’ for our enemies rather than the lives of innocents and our way of life, this cannot be done at the moment, thanks to the sheer ignorance, bastardry and cowardice of our political class.

We can only hope for changes in attitude but, in the meantime, a ban on all immigration from Islamic countries is not too much to ask, surely?

Is Mise,

My suggestion was that the first thing police should
be taught is to shoot to disable a perpetrator and to
only shoot to kill if their life's were threatened.
The whole point is - is the life of the police
officer threatened - and he has no choice but to shoot
at the chest. What we saw on the TV - the police officers
could have shot to disable. They were trained to kill.

//In countries where knife use is possibly more prevalent then other forms of non-lethal options have been adopted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqtny9yj8u8

In Japan the are called Sasumata.

http://inventorspot.com/articles/teachers_expel_school_intruder_twopronged_people_pusher//

God bless the Japanese. We could learn a thing or two from them.

Have you heard about their 'drunk futons'? When people are being drunk and disorderly, they wrap them up in a big futon and wait until they calm down. One of those ideas that sounds odd at first because you're not used to it, and then you realise just how practical it is. Certainly more practical than attempting to beat people into sobriety, which sadly seems to be the preferred tactic of NSW's finest.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-pacific-38534288/wrapping-people-in-futons-how-the-japanese-police-confront-violence

Foxy,

What we saw on TV was a big bloke with a knife trying to kill policemen.
I'd have shot him, centre mass (chest area) when he was still no closer than 15 feet and fired two shots at a time (double tap) until he went down.
That's how the Australian Government trained me and I see no reason why police shouldn't receive the same training and be encouraged to use it.

Shooting to wound is out of fantasy land, except by a rifleman well out of knife range.

Dear runner,

No NathanJ is exhibiting a decent, some may say Christian, sensibility something you know not a bloody jot about.

It exactly this kind of crap from you which completely destroys any chance of your anti-abortion Tourettes being taken as any true regard for the 'sanctity of life'.

You don't believe in the notion and therefore you don't accept the teachings of your saviour.

Dear Hasbeen,

Unfortunately I have been tested in that regard and while I am still gutted that I was not able to do more to prevent an officer being stabbed, and that my assessment of the situation was about 5 seconds behind at every count, I did not scarper but rather stayed to assist as best I could.

It turned out the assailant had just been released from a mental facility after having a complete psychotic episode two weeks previous when he confronted police with two knives screaming for them to kill him.

An under resourced mental health sector saw him released in what looked like a virtual catatonic state to subsequently severely wound a policeman.

Do we blame him? The mental facility? Or the politicians who pour all the money into prisons to satisfy mugs like you and let the streets take care of the vast majority of our seriously mentally afflicted?

Steele,

Why didn't you use your pistol?

What makes an imbecile who wants to annihilate 200 million innocent people with nuclear weapons sick, people who don't agree with him. You and Hitler have something in common, isn't that right Hasbeen.

//If we don't toughen the hell up, & nuke these people (Pakistan) out of existence, it is us who will be crushed out of existence.//

Posted by Hasbeen, Tuesday, 6 November 2018 2:38:57 PM

I glad I make you sick Hasbeen, because people like you sure as hell make me feel sick.

Dear Is Mise,

For the same reason the assailant didn't use his, neither of us had one because we live in a mostly safe country where carrying them is thankfully not the norm, though it is under threat from those who would bring death to our streets, namely you and your fellow fetishers.

So then, by the talk of protecting a knife wielding murder, people here are more concerned with his rights then the rights of the police and the civilians around the murderer.

If you kill, you lose your rights to be protected. If you kill to protect another's life, or your own, then you have protected your own right (or someone else's) to live.

A murder therefore forfeits any rights to being protected by the law, because he or she is a danger to those around him. The police officer did the right thing.

We cannot rely on the Morrison government to deal with terrorism or anything else. A few days ago, Dutton told us that the 'sick’ children brought here from Nauru would not be sent back there. Yesterday, The Australian reported we that:

“Scott Morrison says that child refugees relocated from Nauru to Australia for medical attention WILL be sent back to the offshore processing centre”.

What a crappy choice we have for next year's election: Labor, who will inevitably take its wrecking ball to the economy and everything else, and a Labor-lite party whose members tell conflicting stories, (see also Victorian dealings with China reactions) and whose 'leader’ declares Muslim terrorism to be the greatest threat to Australia, but chickens out of the solution and tells the 'Muslim community’, whatever that is, that they have to do something about it!

In expressing their 'disappointment' at Morrison's call for them to straighten out their 'community', the Forum On Australia's Islamic Relations brought out the old chestnut about a “mentally ill person suffering from a psychotic episode”.

If that describes the Burke Street terrorist, it also describes Muhammad and all the people connected with the writing of the Koran, as well those adhering to the Koran.

If Muslims in Australia, or the people claiming to represent them, are so ignorant of their own Koran and Allah's teaching, they have no chance of helping the hapless Morrison out – they know as little about Islam as he does. Or they are just straight out liars.

What we are talking about here is the young policeman who first responded who had just witnessed the Islamic terrorist stab 3 people and who was just out of arms reach trying to kill him with a knife.

It would have been unreasonable to expect any other outcome considering the screeching from the greens when anyone uses a Taser has meant that few policemen are armed with them.

James Dimitrious Gargasoulas said he is Jesus and killed 6. Like all other nuts he has a right to plead insanity . Police could have plugged him like a Hooter Shooter pistol-range target , resembling the Dark Ages or barbarian Europe. He certainly wouldn't re-offend.
Road rage would then be more interesting and we could move to tribal warfare and no more rubbish about "civilisation"..

Those with a better method then shooting dead should come forward & join the Police Force & then arrange for the deranged to be looked after. Problem solved !

A shopping trolley held by 2 men at 20kph is one hi-tech solution. Other proposals include 4sq metre fishing net , Arnhem Land spear with several prongs and knife proof flak jacket. Also suit of armour from 13th century with shield and nail-studded club . Stun grenades , drone with pepper and capsicum aioli on sesame bun.

ttbn,
I have to agree that Morrison is a disappointment, and he did such a good job with Immigration, I expected far better.

As you know to combat this the first step is to stop muslim immigration. Then remove citizenship and deport those muslims that hold our society in contempt.

As others have pointed out, there are millions of potential migrants so we can be very choosey if we really need migrants. Those groups that act up, like the Africans, and those that practice FGM and marry underage girls should be scratched from the list. We have a social standard to maintain.

But obviously Morrison is not up to the task as he could start by deporting those (so called) muslim leaders who are offended by his soft comments.

ScoMo may have lifted his polling, unlike those from his side of the fence, I see he has been good on this issue
SOME on my side, have not, not the parliament, the branches
Always left of the party, true, unwise but true, some say he is dog whistling
Let me tell you he is not!
Some truths hurt, but Australians will NEVER elect a government they think is soft on terrorism.
Labor is not and dare not be so.
SOME however, for all the right reasons, but without common sense,think of human values and fairness
if only they, the few, would stop and think, those are the very things Islamic terrorists, never consider

Mad dogs sometimes need putting down. See Steinbeck - Of Mice And Men.

Proportional self defense (in the west)- you can use a baton against an unarmed assailant - a gun against a knife armed assailant - but not a gun against an unarmed assailant.

Kudos to the police- they should have shot him sooner- and avoid the risk to the public and themselves as they were chased around by him for so long.

Maybe the peace-nics/ disarmament people should be sent to deal with the problem. They should be exiled to the middle east till they solve the issues. Rather than creating problems here. Talk is less than action- good on the police for their action. Shame on the socialist anti-gun lobby for putting our police and public in danger.

Mark Steyn, commenting on the Bourke Street terrorist attack, has mentioned that the terrorist who was left roaming free to kill Australians, had had is passport cancelled to prevent him going to Syria as a jihadi. Steyn apparently finds it odd that our political class stops jihadis from going overseas so that “the only infidels they can kill are the locals”.

That's what it amounts to. Would be jihadists should be allowed to go somewhere to do the business, and in the event they survive, stopped at the border if they try to come back.

Steyn also refers to the “lunatic government policies that insist everybody on the planet is entirely the same and that to attempt to distinguish between any of the seven billion potential immigrants to your country is totally racist”.

He also contends what many of us now think: it doesn't matter whether you vote Left or Right any more; you will get the same cowardly nothing-to-see-here from a bunch moronic politicians.

Henry,

I saw Morrison described as 'Turnbull in a baseball cap (his headdress when visiting rural areas) this morning.

"you can use a baton against an unarmed assailant '
Is that a sharpened baton through the heart , like the stake through Dracula? Can a pistol be aimed or is it aimless like an exploding grenade? Are police unable to learn how to aim?

Posted by nicknamenick, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 12:04:57 PM
Are police unable to learn how to aim?

Answer- Well I'll follow the red rag this time...

Police are trained to aim for the biggest target for various reasons ...
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/shooting_to_kill_why_police_ar.html

- A police officer may go through their whole career without drawing their firearm.
- It is very difficult for any person to shoot another person and is something that cannot be replicated in training.
- Aiming for the leg risks a miss and hitting bystanders.
- The chest is the biggest area.
___
- police and all weapons drills take safety very seriously
- if you want to judge someone who acts in the role of the police try to do the sorts of things a police officer does then by standing in their shoes you may be able to have a better understanding of the issues they face.
- When people have any sort of power it can always be used responsibly or irresponsibly- that's a subject for morality and ethics. There are some rules of thumb to create a framework for its responsible use

well written Cannun

That's right CC. Always aim for the biggest part of the target is the rule.

That response concerns US where every kid has a bazooka and a wounded man can pull a trigger. Melbourne is in Australia and Ned Kelly had a carbine but not the knife-man. Many domestics involve knives - why does Oz have to be New York?

I just found this on Facebook:

"Jemel Roberson put his life on the line to stop a mass shooting at Manny’s Blue Room Bar in a Chicago suburb last night. Not only did he return fire, stopping the shooter - he chased the shooter down the street as he tried to escape, pinning him under his own body weight, and waited for the police to arrive at the scene, ensuring the safety of everyone around him. I don't know many people who would have been so courageous. Do you?

Jemel, a beloved son, father, and musician in his community church, worked as a security guard at Manny's and dreamed of becoming a police officer one day. He was 26 years old.

When the police arrived at the scene, they shot and killed Jemel as onlookers cried: "He's a security guard!" "He saved us!"

The shooter was taken safely into police custody.

One of the men was black. But you didn't need me to tell you that part, right?

In the moments before his death, I imagine the thoughts that might have been going through Jemel's mind. "I stopped a mass shooting! I saved everyone!" Was he thinking about how grateful the police officers would be for his courage when they arrived? Thinking about how proud his friends and family would be when he returned home to them a hero? Was he thinking about the beginning of his own career as an officer? We will never know.

Please say his name with me tonight. Please help me make his memory the heroic one that he deserves. No one will tell this story if we don't."

To put it simply, all types of gun violence is wrong and one cannot pick and choose, based on their own moral values. Any revenge attacks will also affect others down the track. More people end up dying and it's simply not worth it.

"To put it simply, all types of gun violence is wrong and one cannot pick and choose, based on their own moral values"

To put it simply, Nathan, it is because of 'gun violence' that you are using a 'qwerty' keyboard and not a Japanese one.
http://xahlee.info/kbd/Japan_keyboard_layouts.html

Men who attack their domestic family are enemy soldiers invading Australia. Do you hear voices in the clouds , Is Mise?

No, but I do read some wacky posts lately.

<<To put it simply, Nathan, it is because of 'gun violence' that you are using a 'qwerty' keyboard and not a Japanese one.
http://xahlee.info/kbd/Japan_keyboard_layouts.html>>

If one wishes to use a Japanese keyboard, or more likely speak Japanese, language is something that has developed over time and has a strong meaning and development to it. Language passes on messages to others, that one can appreciate.

Guns do not do that.

Language, like Japanese, is something that many use to communicate between one another. It therefore has a strong meaning and has been passed on from one generation to another.

Gun violence and the use of such weaponry only sees people affected in ways that are negative, with no heart, care or love involved. The use of guns has no value and really should not be attached to the Japanese. Their life, culture and sense of living deserve better than that.

Nathan J

( I think Is Mise is meaning World War II when Japan fired a few bullets). Kamikaze pilots went down like the Bourke street jihadist but a knife is a bit smaller than a Zero ( aeroplane , Nathan). Japs carried samurai swords and Is Mise wanted to man a machine gun post in a Winston Churchill 'fight in the hills' of Melbourne . Failing that , a 4x4 tank charge would be the go.

I now see what Is Mise is trying to prove, but the analogy makes no sense, when one takes the following into consideration and what I have just said about guns in terms of their negative impacts.

One also must consider: What makes a country peaceful? Journalist Akira Ikegami analyzes the “Global Peace Index” survey of 140 countries and regions which the Economist Intelligence Unit released in March. According to the survey, Japan is ranked the 5th most peaceful country, following Iceland, Denmark, Norway and New Zealand.

https://japantoday.com/category/features/kuchikomi/japan-ranked-5th-most-peaceful-country-in-the-world

"Japan puts citizens through a rigorous set of tests" is an article to read.

Japan, which has strict laws for obtaining firearms, seldom has more than 10 shooting deaths a year in a population of 127 million people.

If Japanese people want to own a gun, they must attend an all-day class, pass a written test, and achieve at least 95% accuracy during a shooting-range test.

Then they have to pass a mental-health evaluation at a hospital, as well as a background check, in which the government digs into any criminal records or ties and interviews friends and family members.

Finally, they can buy only shotguns and air rifles — no handguns — and must retake the class and the initial exam every three years.

Unlike in the US, Japanese law has long outlawed guns. Still, the wisdom from Japan seems to be that tighter regulations keep guns confined only to those fit to use them.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/gun-deaths-eliminated-america-learn-japan-australia-uk-norway-florida-shooting-latest-news-a8216301.html

The Melbourne guy would have been as dangerous if he used a brick, which can kill . Maybe police with bricks could have had a go , even killing him. Pistols are so 19th century and if difficult to aim then are evidently not suited to purpose. They can land on the moon but can't put a terrorist on the ground to stop him dying as a martyr for Allah.

Nathan,

"I now see what Is Mise is trying to prove, but the analogy makes no sense, when one takes the following into consideration and what I have just said about guns in terms of their negative impacts."

The analogy makes perfect sense, when considering the Japan of the day, Japan would not be like it is now if it had not been defeated in WWII, and, in the main, defeated by men with guns.

Kindly explain why it is wrong to defend one's self or another against unlawful attack by using a firearm.

Nathan,

" Language passes on messages to others, that one can appreciate.

Guns do not do that."

They do in my book, I can appreciate the impact of a burst of Owen gun fire on an enemy; the message is passed on!!

"Kindly explain why it is wrong to defend one's self or another against unlawful attack by using a firearm."
Footie players are sent off for unlawful attack, not given a burst of HE. Newspapers make unlawful attacks on reputations and the girl doesn't go in with fixed bayonet.

So if someone is sending a message to someone, lets say via gun violence, and lets say it's directed towards Is Mise or let's say it's towards people in the streets of Melbourne? I'm assuming that's all fine?

After all it's a form of communication isn't it? It just happens to be from someone else's perspective in terms of communication. So really, there can't and shouldn't be two sets of standards when it comes to gun violence.

Someone has clearly started the communication and really it's not very good. The overall content and quality being sent out is very poor.

One can also take this into consideration."Nationals Senator describes disturbing pro-gun video as ‘free speech’ on Q&A".

https://thenewdaily.com.au/entertainment/tv/2016/09/12/q-and-a-gun-culture/

Nathan,

He was a big, powerful bloke, moving fast and erratically. If nobody had had a gun, as police are entitled to carry, do you really think he wouldn't have stabbed or slashed those coppers ? That he would have had the upper hand simply by having a lethal weapon which he was intent on using ? Once he had incapacitated those coppers, would be have stopped, or gone into the nearest cafe and started on the patrons there ?

Live by violence, die by violence. Plenty of justification for that could be found in the Koran. As it happened, he killed 'only' one person, a well-respected, innocent person. Do you have any compassion for Sisto ? Or only for his killer ?

Joe

This is just another uncomfortable truth.
The facts appear to be that he had already killed and maimed, so there was no guessing his demeanor and his ability to do the unthinkable.
I can agree that the policeman, given all the training, was without a doubt, able to shoot a person in any spot on their body, arms and legs included.
Unfortunately, because I'm one of those people who say, had he not killed or injured anyone, try to shoot them in the leg or hand with the knife, but as he already unleashed his reign of terror, and I don't want such people out amongst the general population, and the fact that he was not worth the huge amount of money it was going to cost, with NO chance of rehabilitation, then he was better off dead.

Nathan,

You still haven't explained why it is wrong to use a gun, or any other lethal weapon, in the legal defence of one's own life or the life of others.

When police shoot a domestic perp with a knife , an inquiry is held by Police. ( "Was he a perp ?" "Yes , Chief Marshall Super Detective." "It's Legal. next case.")

If he needs shooting , why try to revive him? Why not be humane and use artillery like Kim Jong-un did to his uncle , more bang for all those bucks.

I guess it's only a matter of time before we see in Australia similar to the Kenyan "Somalian Islamic" Shopping Centre massacre. It seems the left are complicit here favoring "the Bourke St killer" rather than the police.

As Winston Smith said the hope is in the proles- the Australian people need to say "Reject the Politically Correct Left" otherwise things will get much worse- think movie "South Africa- The special task force".

nicknamenick statistics

Comments made on this thread so far. = 16

Comments made on this thread so far that that recieved a reply. = 2

Comments made on this thread so far that recieved no reply. = 14

nicknamenick - Understanding is needed in order to reply sensibly.

He does , he does !

Dear Philip S,

Nick off naming nick as a ne'er-do-well.

I find his posts have a degree of whimsy, frequently with a delightful dash of the absurd, and are often on the money.

You obviously under-appreciate the pithy.

//nicknamenick - Understanding is needed in order to reply sensibly.//

Oh for pete's sake, can you pair just get a room?

SteeleRedux - I agree with some of what you say.

But when an educator gives a lecture to a group of people that he or she should know at what level to give the lesson. If a lesson or lecture is given and most of the audience do not understand the content that is a stupid lecturer.

When someone post at a level that very few understand what the message he or she is trying to give is, evidenced by the lack of replies to the
message does not say much for the poster.

Also how many threads have you seen that once he starts commenting on them they go to crap rapidly?

Toni Lavis. Very droll comment probably from a troll.

16 comments and to those only 2 replies.

Very very few of his comment receive a reply because most do not understand what he is trying to say.

//When someone post at a level that very few understand what the message he or she is trying to give is, evidenced by the lack of replies to the
message does not say much for the poster.//

If you say so, Philip.

But since nobody else seems that exercised about his weird posts, why don't you start your own thread on that subject instead of clogging up every other available thread with your whining?

NOW HEAR THIS! It has been decreed by a power greater than I (my mother-in-law) that henceforth ALL POSTS shall be made only containing words beginning with the letter 'F'. Transgressors of the new edict shall be severely dealt with! Execution will apply in the first instance, and a $10 fine for all subsequent infringements! Got it!

nicknamenick, post whatever you like, and I do read much of what you put up.

words containing letter 'f'.

https://www.thegoblinball.com/the-goblin-blog/category/melbourne-sword-and-spear-association
My personal favourite is the cutlass or sabre. I have a soft spot for pirates, it's true, but I also love how light and quick they are compared to some of the heavier blades, and the fact that they are wielded with a single hand give me freedom to have an of-hand weapon like a dagger, or to have a shield as well.
Private lessons are also being given by trained officers.

So, Vic. Minister for Police Lisa Neville must be changing perp policy. I recommend officers on armoured horses with Victoria coat of Arms , it shows 2 female officers with weapons.

Court Jesters

No they're not . The Supporters are 'supporting' the Shield on either side. The left officer wears a laurel wreath crown and carries a sprig of olive in her hand. The right one has upon her head a circlet of golden cereal, and with her exterior hand supports a Cornucopia.

Olive wood is used for high-end knife or tool handles. Hercules wrestled with the river god Achelous and wrenched off one of his bull horns which became the cornucopia.

<<You still haven't explained why it is wrong to use a gun, or any other lethal weapon, in the legal defence of one's own life or the life of others.>>

I don't have to, because Is Mise, you are only looking at the issue from a legal perspective.

There is no focus on the matter from a moral or ethical perspective, which is very important.

I say this in the context, that a legal focus, won't provide any benefit to anyone affected by the impacts of gun violence, or in fact any violence. Talk one day to victims of such violence and you may understand.

Law will never provide one with a feeling of betterment, but a social, ethical and even (for some) a religious focus on life has a higher chance of achieving something enriching, leading to perhaps less violence in the community, that law simply cannot and simply never will.

Philip S
Your parcel just arrived , it's gorgeous you shouldn't have, ducky.
Darl , the hand-knitted underpants are just my shade of beige. xxx

nicknamenick - You come up with that garbage in response to nothing from me, indicating you have now turned troll.

Grow up and act your age not your shoe size.

!

//Court Jesters//

I'faith nuncle, I pray, art thou man or mooncalf?

Toni Lavis It is blatantly obvious you are avoiding replying to a lie you made before. So here it is again.

Your credibility has just been reduced to ZERO, this will be of interest to others when they become involved in a debate with you as he has already proven to be wrong.

Toni Lavis On Friday November 16th you posted Quote.

"Why does the Daily Mail bother printing this crap? And why do people accept it as gospel when it's obvious bollocks?"

In response to a media report that said "Nauru's President Baron Waqa told The Australian that life on Nauru is much cheaper, allowing refugees holidays to Fiji, healthcare, free housing and jobs."

I replied to you with this response. "If it is a lie I guarantee it will quickly be called out in the media, or by the refugee advocates if they do you are right, if they do not it is you who is talking crap.
To be reviewed in a few days to determine who is right."

It has now been 4 days and not one article or media release calling out the article as being false or misleading, so it is evident it is you who are wrong.

What do you have to say now, time to face the music.

Philip, sorry I ran out of time on the other thread, where you asked me who is NMN.
I have a habit of abbreviating many things, and unfortunately Nicknamenick is a bit of a chore, so I abbreviate TO NMN.
You may have noticed I write in similar fashion, just can't be bothered to write long names.
I think you'll find that between the insults, slurs and just general dislike between certain commentors, it is pretty much an accepted, (even if not by everyone), practice.
BTW, for general broadcast, I will be off the other thread for 12 hrs, until OLO's clock unlocks me again.

ALTRAV Thanks for the reply, I have seen him also refereed to as NNN.

<<You still haven't explained why it is wrong to use a gun, or any other lethal weapon, in the legal defence of one's own life or the life of others.>>

I don't have to, because Is Mise, you are only looking at the issue from a legal perspective.

There is no focus on the matter from a moral or ethical perspective, which is very important."

But I do look at the moral/ethical perspective, and from that perspective I see that it is morally wrong not to defend one's life or the life of another, when that life is threatened.
Indeed I see it as a moral imperative to kill one's attacker as quickly and efficiently as possible.

So, tell me why it is wrong.

Boys in Qld got broken necks playing sport , boxers have died from brain injuries. Helicopter parents yell blue murder at footie teams and may be issued with scope weapons to protect life.

Well, Nathan, two days have passed since the last post on this subject and you haven't yet told us why it was morally/ethically wrong for the policeman to save lives by using his pistol to stop the murderous rampage of the knife wielding terrorist; nor have you told us why it is wrong to save one's own life or the lives of others from certain harm or even death.

I await your well reasoned and logical reply.

I hope that nothing is wrong Nathan; been a long while since your last post
How do you feel about the moral position of all those Australian soldiers who used firearm violence to kill Japanese soldiers in WWII?

Is Mise- Kudos on sticking to the point. Sometimes hard decisions have to be made. I don't agree with all your positions but kudos here.

ASIS to get new powers for lethal use of their firearms.

http://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-s-overseas-spies-to-have-expanded-ability-to-use-weapons-and-violence-20181128-p50iy0.html

What's the moral/ethical position for them, Nathan, will they be doing a moral wrong in saving a life, even if it is only their own?

Or are they morally culpable and does such culpability extend to their employers?

Ultimately we are their employers.

Perhaps. Nathan, you might start a thread entitled "Why I will support a selective approach to Morals and Ethics"?

A knife (plural knives; possibly from old Norse knifr ("blade") is a tool with a cutting edge or blade attached to a handle. Mankind's first tool, knives were used at least two-and-a-half million years ago, as evidenced by the Oldowan tools. Originally made of rock, bone, flint, and obsidian, over the centuries, in step with improvements in metallurgy or manufacture, knife blades have been made from bronze, copper, iron, steel, ceramics, and titanium.

Leon Paul London - Iconic Fencing Equipment made in London
https://www.leonpaulaustralia.com/
JOIN THE REVOLUTION. APEX UNIFORMS. UP TO 40% Lighter. ...· masks